"WHERE DO I START" Is Not The Right Question | Castle Super Beast Clips

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You can listen to the full podcast on: Our site: www.castlesuperbeast.net ITunes: tinyurl.com/CSBitunes (iTunes) Soundcloud” / castlesuperbeast … QAs well as Spotify, Google Podcasts, & Stitcher! You can watch us record live each week at / castlesuperbeast Hope you enjoy these moments from the show! For those wondering about full episodes, unfortunately, posting them in full to KZbin would hurt not only the audio podcast itself but also this channel directly in a not insignificant way. For the full podcast, please play or download it, or watch our full video archives on twitch.
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[@SunfishV]

"Kite Flier and Floor Pie Eater." Now that's peak.

[@gameb9oy]

Pat looked like he was considering how much damage he took from that

[@GodammmitKalcour]

They've come a long way from Chewy and F*ckFace

[@brisby169]

​@@gameb9oy made me feel a little guilty

[@zaneseibert]

The Hitman example with this is wild. It's the equivalent of your 1st Pokemon or Resident Evil being a randomizer.

[@GuitarSlayer136]

??? My first Hitman was Absolution. I fail to see how this could be worse.

[@soliduswasright678]

@@GuitarSlayer136 Hitman Freelancer turns the game into a roguelike, it throws you in the deep end immediately.

[@kapkant6197]

​@@GuitarSlayer136 Absolution was an entire new game. Freelancer is a mode built around you having hundreds of hours of knowledge across 3 games. It changes certain guard layouts and item spawns expecting you to be thrown off. It's the equivalent of starting an MMO at the newest and toughest raid without doing the opening tutorial mission

[@lordxmugen]

@@kapkant6197 That sounds amazing and already better than every MMO ever that wants you to spend 2 or 3 months of doing nonsensical bullshit "story" content that honestly doesnt have any bearing on your character or any way on how you perceive it's world before you get to do the fun group content. I would sub to an MMO that just said "heres your characters. heres some equipment. heres the challenge. Now FIGHT IT!"

[@bigbrowski410]

@@lordxmugen Freelancer doesn’t start at a high level raid giving you a full set of gear to try it out, it drops you in front of Malenia as a Depraved and completely randomizes the rest of the world every death. I think there is something to be said that optimal starting points should factor in gameplay over just story and interconnection. Freelancer expects the player to have a strong understanding of Hitmans mechanics, and to start there can burn you out quick.

[@pwnyboy9714]

I like that Pat has transitioned from angrily calling people he disagrees with freaks to angrily calling people he disagrees with saints. xD CHARACTER GROWTH

[@pyropoyo]

the answer to this question is start wherever you are most interested and you are simply not allowed to complain if you are confused when the story glosses over details explained in earlier entries

[@sdbzfan1]

Thats the way i view things, play whatever you want but if you're gonna complain that a series with 13 sequels isnt explaining something its alway explain before you are barking up the wrong tree and just accept that long time adopters of something will get more out of it than you and either live with that or go back and play them all

[@LilAnonomus]

I think that applies in most cases, but not in video games where the earlier entries are things like Witcher 1.

[@Lanewreck]

Fair and balanced way of approaching it.

[@SoaringLettuce]

If order matters, then go with release order. If order doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter.

[@Dread_Not]

Woolie's potential love is keeping him from ever actually loving certain games.

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

You people are insane

[@Roronoa2zoro]

Reminder the Woolie played the Souls games in the order: 2-Bloodborne-DeS-3-1

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

1) for his job, 2) each game is standalone as FUCK

[@Lonequacker]

lol Pat's face processing during Woolie trying to explain why it's too difficult to just play the Yakuza games.

[@Kango234]

Yeah that's another part of this conversation, people just like to gatekeep themselves a lot of the time.

[@thatoneguntank1896]

If you want to do something you should just do it. The more often you just stop the internal debate and do the thing the easier it gets.

[@ExaltedUriel]

Speaking of, what's the deal with the Yakuza 0 playthrough. I know the original "hiatus" was because V was going through some personal life stuff, but is it just cancelled because of perpetual "scheduling issues" or what. It's been nigh on 2 years and it's super glaring.

[@thelaughingrouge]

​@@ExaltedUrielBasically Woolies comment section every time V was on was toxic AF and and completely turned V off from LPing with Woolie again in addition to his personal stuff at the time. I love Woolie but his commenters are some of the worst people on youtube. But what do you expect from fighting game fans.

[@tylercafe1260]

@@thelaughingrouge V specifically stated it was Reddits comments fault but sure go off King 👑

[@Zer0Hour17]

Pat's all or nothing on attitude on full display. There is a world of difference between suggesting someone should play NieR before Automata and telling someone they need to play a half a dozen long JRPGs released over 20 years before you can play the current 4 long jrpgs.

[@Terramagu]

In Trails case, it's 100% right. Like, I don't care that NISA says "yeah you can just buy our games, don't buy the ones that the other publisher translated, they're not important". The entire point of Trails is that it's a huge consistent world. Hell, it's the only thing that gets people through the later games, when the writing turns to complete garbage.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

I mean there's also drakenguard which one ending sets up the whole mess of Neir which sets off the events leading to automata

[@Zer0Hour17]

@@Ike_of_pyke sure but the references to Drakengard could not be more minor, where as there are characters from NeiR in Automata.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

@@Zer0Hour17 no they're not ,they're literally why Neir and automata happen , because of the drakenguard ending E the plague that begins Neir starts and because of that plague the remains of humanity leave and create the automata robots . *Tetris effect singer* It's all connected

[@Zer0Hour17]

@@Ike_of_pyke and you find everything you need to know about that in NieR and Automata. Literal character arcs begin in NieR and end in Automata. These are not the same and I will not bother with a conversation that says they are.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

the issue with the Hitman example is less "where do i start to catch up?" & more "maybe you shouldn't start a game at the actual Post-Game"

[@nahuel3433]

If I want to start watching Castle Super Beast do I have to start with the Two Best Friends play deleted machinima episodes or can I start with the Woolie VS saga?

[@megasuperiordude]

You should start with the Two Best Friends Play series, but use a filler guide. A lot of stuff like the Fart Gas arc don't carry over to the Woolie VS saga so you can save a lot of time by just skipping them entirely.

[@manticorephoenix]

Can’t watch anything on Woolie Vs or sub until at least 5 viewings of every single video on Two Best Friends play Channel first

[@kapkant6197]

I'd say watch the Silent Hill and Deadly Premonition playthroughs to really get a feel for where the story started (plus it will help you see how the writers have honed their skills over time) but I'd only really call the Devil May Cry playthroughs and the Line Kill fisticuffs vital. Those LPs were done when the writers knew that they'd have to reboot soon due to the messy continuity (what new fan even knows what a "gully gully" is?) so there's a lot of foreshadowing and set up for the reboot, especially during DmC: Devil May Cry and Line Kill videos.

[@Samael1113]

To truly appreciate the Woolie Vs Saga, you need to go back to the TBFP "When's Mahvel" and "Woolie the Liar" arcs. SBFP era "The Woolie Hole" and "Drop Your Shield" arcs are also useful world building. Friday Night Fisticuffs / Saturday Morning Scrublords are worth perusing, some good stuff in there. If you like it, the prequel series have a lot of great memes and hilarious gags. Scrublords and Fighterpedia? If I haven't gotten riddled with dementia. This can provide more of a complete picture of the Woolie Vs saga, but he frequently revisits much of this theming naturally on his own, just with a new cast. Some of the stuff with -Redacted- is really good too. Ohh! and we can't forget about the "Almost getting arrested in the alley by Matt's apartment for a stupid Aliens bit" arc. But the first two mentioned are the only truly important background for the Woolie Vs spin-off, that I can recall.

[@Dracobyte]

What about Fisticuffs?

[@Rald623S]

I find that in most cases, people just hoping the answer is not "the first one". They won't ask about it otherwise

[@MikeCosimano]

Woolie talking about why he likes expanded context is one of the reasons why I think his content is still so good and also ages so well, that extra work and thought always shines through.

[@thejuiceweasel]

Man, I'm glad I've read through 25,000 pages of JoJo before playing Hi-Fi Rush just so I know what ゴゴゴ means. It's just the superior experience.

[@clan741]

Whether combat evolved or reach. Don’t do what pat did and start with 2 XD

[@IamWalkingDead1]

I was worse and started with 3 cause it came with the 360. I was SO fucking lost. When the flood showed up I was like "I thought this was a shooter against alien people, the fuck are these???"

[@kapkant6197]

I started with Halo Wars, what do I win?

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@kapkant6197 NOTHING. YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR

[@KazernskyYT]

@@IamWalkingDead1 to be fair, that's basically the same reaction to the flood in halo ce

[@badwrongfun5541]

I know at least 3 million people did that judging by sales.

[@Kami1000degrees]

Why do I feel like this whole conversation went off the mark of the basic question? It was the most infuriating "conversation" these two went off of 😂

[@brisby169]

Yeah, I should've been more specific in the email. A better summary question at the end would've been "have you encountered games that let you jump into the deep end without doing anything else?" or something like that. I'm not even sure how many other games have end game modes available to new players, usually that stuff is an unlock.

[@boxxylegoplaymobil8906]

​@@brisby169 arguably undertale (at least on ps4). i started it for the first time last year only knowing that the main characters name is Frisk, so naturally i put that as my name when it asked. apparently this activates hardcore from the start and i couldnt even beat the tutorial lmao

[@richardjohnson8991]

@@brisby169 Nioh 2. I played Nioh and the sequel in order but I can totally say you'll get almost nothing from playing the first game aside from "oh hey it's William and those spirits from the first game" and that's the entire sentiment

[@doomdimention9787]

Pat is crazy with the Automata stuff specifically. Playing through NieR prior made me almost start crying when I went down the elevator to Kaine's shack with all the lunar tears. Easily one of the most powerful moments in the game.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

That's also not something you have to even do, though. Automata completely stands on its own as a story, and you can say the same thing about the original NieR, how you should play ALL of Drakengard before playing the original NieR

[@reccaman]

It makes me wonder if he even went there in Automata tbh

[@sarcastic_alpaca]

DSP is the Slave knight Gael of streaming.

[@YetiCoolBrother]

It really depends on HOW story connected are the titles IMO. God Of War is a perfect example: You probably shouldn't play Ragnarok if you haven't played GOW 2018, but you can totally play GOW 2018 without having played GOW 1, 2, & 3 but 2018 is way better if you have.

[@LightningPuppet]

2 and 3 are the only ones worth playing though

[@SaberRexZealot]

@@LightningPuppet 1 is still ok, just play on easy

[@Broomer52]

IMO it also depends on how far in you want to start. I started Kingdom Hearts with 2. Just like with Trails of Cold Steel the numbered games are just the games that tie up certain plot threads while the middle games do a lot of the Lore dumping. By this point their was only two other games I missed, 1 and Chain of Memories. So I just looked up the plot I missed rather than go back to it and honestly you barely miss anything by starting with 2 because the game itself does a decent job at giving you the Cliff Notes

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

@LightningPuppet theyre all bad. When i say all i mean all 5

[@Broomer52]

@@Nabs-xd2qr do you just want to start a fight?

[@SoaringLettuce]

This entire argument only exists because some people can't understand that prequels are meant to be experienced *as prequels*. Chronological order is pretty much never the way to go over release order.

[@JumpinJoe]

Correct. Release date order is king. There's a reason why they are called pre-sequels

[@CR1MS0NR3N3G4D3]

They're really speedrunning these achievment unlocks in the beginning of this conversation.

[@amysel]

With NieR, I started with Automata and got obsessed with it and had to replay it after playing replicant to get the extra sprinkles that flew over my head and replicant had such a huge impact on me that I decided to just play every drakengard game because of it (Even Drakengard 2) and I genuinely enjoyed them even though they are very rough experiences and I don't regret it.

[@Tekh09]

"Even Drakengard 2" I know you're not lying because of the way you worded that. God bless you, you tortured soul. My only exposure to the Drakengard series, and Nier Gestalt, was a series of text LPs by The Dark Id.

[@amysel]

@@Tekh09 I streamed Drakengard 2 on my channel actually. I really liked it gameplay wise, its less jank than 1 and smoother than 3's disgusting framerate. And it gave closure to Manah and Caim's respective character arcs. The worst part of the game though is everything that wasn't in Drakengard 1, all the new characters suck and are giant walking plotholes that get increasingly frustrating as the plot goes on just to have the dumbest ending twist that feels improvised on the spot for the sake of having a final boss. Id actually really wanna see Yoko Taro remake that game just to see what he could do with it.

[@Noxshade]

"This is not a JoJo part skipping discussion!" But maybe it should be.

[@Kango234]

I'm proud to say I was the one who asked that in the chat. I get why they didn't want to get sidetracked, but it is a pretty funny elephant in the room when it comes to this discussion.

[@Dasaltwarrior]

I feel like the answer to this is just how much gumption do you have to do it at the moment And in Pats case, his mind goblins probably made his current feelings more intense than they would be otherwise, and it also doesn't help he tends to go for absolutely massive, long form series

[@DwarfDaddy]

I mean I wasn’t gonna play Strive’s story mode but then Woolie made those lore videos and that helped me a lot.

[@gold_spin1639]

Ah yes, what fun it is to “play” strives story mode. What a riveting campaign filled with intense dialogue box action!

[@DwarfDaddy]

@@gold_spin1639 admittedly i haven’t actually gotten around to playing it

[@music79075]

​@@gold_spin1639i sat for thirty minute picking up and putting down my controller waiting for it to throw a fight at me whenever 1 or more people interacted with a new person and only after those 30 minutes did I go "oh... this is.. this is an OVA!"

[@NeoBoneGirl]

Sadly, GG's story is not worth this at all

[@chuck1162]

This whole discussion is so weird to me. To use Yakuza as an example, I started with 0 and played the rest from there, not because I wanted to be caught up on the story, but because those games are really good and I wanted to play all them.

[@AuspexAO]

The only Yakuza game I tell my friends to just skip and read a synopsis online is 3. It's just so boring.

[@yhposolihP]

I have, like, six or seven friends who insist on starting a franchise from the beginning if there's a new hotness out for it that catches their attention. I also have six or seven friends who never got into very popular franchises because they never got around to tackling the content before it. Sometimes you miss the train. It's okay. Just catch it at the next stop.

[@fissionchips6413]

Or just star at the new hotness and if you like it go back, that's what I do.

[@manticorephoenix]

@@NocturneJester start where you want to start.

[@yhposolihP]

@@NocturneJester It more lies on how Pat hit the nail on the head with saying that the new game is the one they actually want to play. There's just this mind goblin (I assume) giving them the FOMO of losing the experience of playing all of the games in sequence. And that's fine, that's what Woolie does... but the actual task of getting to that point is usually so daunting, or the lack of interest in the other games is so high, that they never get around to it. Yet they want to play the new hotness. Yet they need to play the others first. Yet the new one is the one they want to play, not the old ones. Yet they need to play the others... etc etc. I seriously know so many people like that, I felt extremely validated when Pat put it to words, haha.

[@nottle9779]

The answer should be just "you don't need to experience everything when its new, there is time to catch up later." Things should be made easily accessible, but then there is always the moments like Emil showing up in Automata and being a standout emotional moment that is lost without any context. Like I can't imagine watching Gundam without experiencing First Gundam series first.

[@Thaltas]

Seeing what happened to Emil and how everyone thought it was just a cute little vendor bot super broke my heart at the time. It's such a wild and emotional moment knowing who he was and what became of our buddy..

[@nottle9779]

@@Thaltas The boss fight with him made me legitimately emotional.

[@Dread_Not]

I would trade every LP Woolie is currently uploading for them to finish the Yakuza game they started.

[@Farmeryeti]

It all just comes down to Based Reggie's quote - "If it's not fun, why bother?" If you want to go back and do the homework and thats fun for you, great then do that. If you just want to jump into MGS3 or something, then jump in, if you care enough about not being lost, you'll look up the reference while you're playing.

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

Mgs3 the chronological first in the series? That one?

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

@Baron Von Slambert Agreed. Thats p much how I played the games. Chronological order. Ofc I also think release order is great too.

[@1superstick]

Danganronpa is an interesting specimen in this context as they are mostly self-contained narratives, but the devs made each sequel play off of the previous games in ways that are potentially invisible to new players. People could easily not know that they were supposed to know something. I take that as the best of both worlds.

[@isimon234]

I make my friend into Metal Gear grit their teeth every time I remind them my play order of the series was: 4-3-1-5-revengeance-2

[@Kango234]

As an MGS fan I can say that's not even that bad and I'm impressed that it seems like you liked Raiden enough to go back and play MGS2. I just hope you weren't too disappointed that he acts and plays completely different in that game.

[@Ragnay977]

Whoa, Patt likes Ys? I think my favorite running joke they have now is how Adol manages to lose all his legendary equipment between games. Gotta start him at level 1 somehow.

[@JackgarPrime]

Ooooh yeah. Pat is a big Ys guy.

[@RicochetForce]

Last I heard he actually sells all of it. That's a really good explanation because goddamn random Romn merchants would gladly pick up the insane shit he gathered up on his travels.

[@Ragnay977]

@@RicochetForce That is interesting. It would make sense if they were selling most of it between games because they are traveling constantly and they would need money. But he definitely drops a legendary sword into the ocean during Eight, and at the end of Nine when he gets his final weapon he says something like "I wonder how I'll lose this one." so I took that to imply he's lost his equipment more than once due to his horrible track record with travel.

[@RicochetForce]

@@Ragnay977 Oh yeah, there's that too. He's also had legendary stuff broken between games... and he just sort of ditches it. It's one of my favorite examples of a series nuking a character's progression between entries. Better than Metroid's, IMO.

[@nhojryad]

>what if I just stopped 3 sessions in WHERE'S YAKUZA 0

[@JackgarPrime]

Typically, I'd have one of three answers. It's always either the first one, the newest one, or the best/most iconic one. It depends on what the other person wants and what the series is.

[@musoumiko4730]

16:30 As someone who is going through the Trails series *right now* this made me burst into laughter, and I wanna toss in my two cents. Do you have to start at the very beginning? No, no not really. *Should* you? That depends on how emotionally invested you get in personal character arcs and watching people and the world grow. Hell you could completely skip sky3 and start on zero after finishing sky2, but you shouldn't because two of my Actual Friends are the reason that game exists in English at all. I think any series with a continuous narrative you should always play in original release order because that's how you get the narrative experience the writer intended. For this franchise it's Sky(fc), SkySC, Sky3rd, Zero, Azure, CS1-4(the rest doesn't matter for most people here because they're not in English(yet)). But if you want to start cold steel at 1 or 3 or wherever, sure go for it. The actual reason to skip playing this franchise is because getting max bp/dp/etc basically *DEMANDS* you have a walkthrough to reference due to how esoteric and hidden some of the sidequests are. Please do not get me started on the books. E: this is all to say Pat if you're reading this, you would *not* enjoy this series because its got that Old RPG stank about it and it would be hell on your mind goblins. Especially because the bp/dp/etc does affect some of the story and dialogue if you max it out. To the point where the games kind of just assume that you got 100% in the sequels.

[@kapkant6197]

It depends on the franchise and if you care about the narrative or gameplay more. Hitman you are good to start anywhere since the plot doesn't matter too much EXCEPT Freelancer, since starting there would harm your gameplay experience like if you started FF14 with one of the endgame raids as your first mission. Persona I pretty much just explain the premise of the three Persona games that exist and let the person decide which one sounds the most appealing, unless I think that the dated nature of the older games may turn them off the franchise. For Halo you should ALWAYS start at Combat Evolved, anyone who says a newcomer should go in story order is insane. Going from Reach to CE would not end well from both a gameplay perspective and narratively Reach assume familiarity with later titles. And Call of Duty Zombies, I pretty much just ask if they want content and difficulty (Black Ops III) or accessibility and a power fantasy (Cold War)

[@ricardomiles2957]

gameplay or story wise the only answer is release order, if you asked for "when to start" that is. I started hitman with blood money but didn't knew anything about it back then, my order was what i could get my hands on so it was like blood money, 2, contracts, absolution and 1

[@leithaziz2716]

With the Persona series, it's fine to play any of them 1st as each game is for the most part self-contained. I don't recommend starting with Reach first either as it's a pretty weird 1st impression sort of game.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

obviously you play Persona Q first.

[@helter1234]

Hey man, Persona 2 may be really cool, well written game trapped in boring 90s JRPG but it is definitely a game that exists.

[@kapkant6197]

@@helter1234 if Persona 2 exists then why isn't it in Q? Checkmate

[@zaneseibert]

I also want to point out Woolie's "x minor detail connects to y minor detail" still totally works in reverse.

[@kapkant6197]

Me starting DMC with 4SE and going back to 3 and going "oh Trickster I know what that does!" Or my first in depth experience with Silent Hill or Resident Evil being Dead by Daylight, meaning when I check out the originals I do the Leonardo DiCaprio point cause I get the reference now

[@b.blobbentein5774]

Seeing the library and facade in Nier Replicant after encountering them before in Automata was a really really cool moment

[@Shadowvanify]

It works in reverse for the most part, but there are definitely exceptions where it only works one way, or it hits much harder one way, usually when the reference is an upgraded version of the original. One that comes to mind is Soul of Cinder in Dark Souls 3, recognizing Gwyn’s moveset and theme in three is going to have way more impact than going the other way.

[@FaelumbreProject]

The whole "where's witcher 3" part of the discussion gets me. I like watching both, but you know Woolie is either finishing an LP or look uninterested enough that there's no hope of continuation. Pat will finish some streams super excited to continue but never do it because offline he changed his mind, and you'll never be sure which game it'll be. Who I'll watch first changes entirely depending on what game I'm checking out at the moment.

[@mrhappy6677]

The legend of heroes: Trails likely very relevant to the question. Since it's a big series and only 2 agreed on starting points if one want's confusion to be minimal. It's a very good thing that starting next month, it'll be a straight shot to getting caught up with no help from fan translations. But, it's nonetheless still a very big commitment to go the distance. You get a fleshed out world and cast of characters out of it, but i hope you have the time for it. Some even say you can just play the first 2 and be good, so there's that at least.

[@zhentable]

Being a trails fan is pain because your getting spoiled by the game that is 4 entries ahead just on the name

[@kpxtreame]

Trails is a weird case since it starts being reletivly independant stories with a few recuring elements, locations and characters, but as it goes on it starts attatching more and more to these older elements till you hit games like CS3, where i think you just wont enjoy it if you start there. Its a weird tightrope walk of them wanting to make it open for new players and yet want to use all the elements they built up (almost to its detriment id argue in CS4).

[@zhentable]

@@kpxtreame funny you say that I got a guy into the trails series but against my advice he started at CS3 because that one was apparently marketed as a start point. He loves trails now and is going back to the older games. He also streamed it so I think that helped

[@kpxtreame]

@@zhentable yeah im of the belief that if you dont care about the OVERARCHING UNIVERSE you can start at any point of a series if the gameplay is enjoyable enough to you, also i started with CS1 so im just as guilty (though i wasent aware it was part of a series, just went OH NEW RPG PORTED TO PS4? POG)

[@zhentable]

@@kpxtreame I was the same didn't realize it was a bigger universe till end of CS2

[@chimechofan5]

Trails is not confusing to get into at all. Literally just play in release order, its that easy. Actually, that goes for any franchise where people ask "where do I start".

[@EncinoDude]

Seriously, when someone asked where to start a series tell them to go to Wikipedia and go to the game release dates section and start from the the one released first. I really don’t get how people have such a hard time choosing a starting point

[@jojak0512]

It's not that it's confusing or difficult in any way, it's just that people don't want to have to play/watch/read the old ones and are asking others for validation.

[@stevelopez6957]

I think they avoided the best question which is where do I start with Mario? And one would think or the first Mario but then they question what the racing and party and RPG games are, you then have to sit someone down and explain the whole franchise nature of Mario and just how insane it is to think one damn Italian plumber has touched almost every form of game and none of it is connected

[@goldlight1322]

Frankly, if continuity is super important in a franchise, then games should just have recaps you can watch or read. Even Kingdom Hearts started doing that once it became self-award of how convoluted it’s own lore is. For gameplay, though, that’s just something you need to have the patience to learn if you’re new to a genre.

[@Sorrelhas]

It's your life, it's your time, you use it however you want But don't be mad when you go play Yoinky Sploinky 3 and it is making constant references to Yoinky Sploinky 1 and 2 and you don't understand anything Sometimes a sequel is aware that most people haven't played the prequels, so it will go the extra mile to ease new players into the story, but it is unfair to expect that from every game

[@SuccubiPie]

You could have literally said Kingdom Hearts 3. I remember during an E3 Paul Marketing literally said you could jump right in.

[@presquenolife]

I can never understand the perspective of wanting to get into a series, but seeing it as the new shiny one is the goal, and the rest is homework. Isn't the fact there's a series of them an indicator that the old stuff is worth caring about? Isn't it more interesting to understand what the fuss is about about the games you've been hearing about for 20 years, rather that jumping on the release hype? When someone asks "do I have to go back and play x", there's an underlying idea that we've moved past the older game, that they're just background for the new and better. Fuck that.

[@juice6521]

"Who's Big Boss?" Oh boy, time to bust out the notepad.

[@MarquisdeL3]

I started Yakuza with 6 because I'm a crazy person. (I'd watched the old Best Friends lps of 0 and 4 beforehand, so I kiiiiiiinda knew who various people were.) That said, I've had multiple friends ask me where to start with Yakuza and I hold that 0, Kiwami, 7/LAD, or Judgment are all good places to start. Ishin probably also works, if your friends need something even weebier than the mainline games.

[@SeruraRenge11]

I still say that 1 is the only correct starting point, narratively and gameplay wise. Yes, not Kiwami 1, 1 on the PS2, with the retranslation and undub patch so you no longer have the excuse of "well 1 has that terrible dub"

[@Zeik56]

@@SeruraRenge11 And if everyone took that seriously the series would be dead in the west, because there are so many people that will not enjoy that version of the game, undub or not. I get the argument, there are merits to starting all the way at the very beginning, but don't get so wrapped in that mentality that doing it any other way is "wrong", despite how many people have fallen in love with the series starting elsewhere. Every entry point is valid if you have a good time and it gets you to play more.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@Zeik56 No, I refuse to accept that stance, I'd rather it be dead. Unless the work is Kamen Rider or FF or some shit where they reboot the franchise with each new thing so they can use the same basic themes every time with a new premise, then works always build mechanically and narratively off of what came before them. If you play Kiwami 1 and 2 as your first Yakuza games, you are not only getting a worse version of those games than the originals, but the mechanical changes are completely fucked in terms of how the series progressed from game to game. If you decide to watch UC Gundam and don't start with 0079, you will never understand why half the shit characters talk about in Zeta/ZZ/CCA matters. You think KH fans started at DDD? No, and even with the in-game summary of previous works, you'd be completely lost and have no reason to care about past events without context. I mean look at oldTrek. How are you supposed to give a shit about ANYTHING in Voyager related to Seska being revealed to be a Cardassian disguised as a Bajoran, everything about the Maquis, all the stuff with the Borg, etc if you didn't watch TNG and DS9? How does Barclay being the key to them communicating with home mean anything if you don't know who Barclay is? Anyone who says "I don't have enough time" or "it's too old" doesn't deserve to experience a franchise that requires committment to it.

[@SeruraRenge11]

And for that matter, watching a game LP or review will never give the same experience as actually playing it because you will never have the gut visceral reaction to the story events that are tied to your gameplay. Seeing a boss die in the post-fight cutscene is so much more satisfying when it was a hard fight that you personally struggled through, Kuze is memorable in Y0 not just because of his scenes but because he has 5 iconic fights in the game, all of which are in the running for the best boss fight in the game. It's why I refuse to watch any LP or review of a game I haven't already played if I had any interest previously in playing it, it will taint my emotional experience with it. And I say that as someone who got into Yakuza because of Matt and Pat's LP of 4, yes I in fact broke my "production order only" rule back in 2013. But here's the thing about that: I had ZERO knowledge or even interest in the series before that LP started, and I went and purchased a copy of the game before they even finished Akiyama's section. I not only beat Yakuza 4 before they were halfway through Saejima's section, I went and beat 1-3 before they finished their LP of the game. And then I went and beat Kenzan with a translation guide. I may have made the mistake of not starting with 1 but I corrected that mistake very quickly by going back and playing the rest, something people who start later will often never do, because they're bandwagoners.

[@Zeik56]

​@@SeruraRenge11 This is an unbelievably asinine mentality belonging to the worst kinds of gatekeepers. How anyone can think like this in this day and age is baffling. You don't deserve to play video games or be a fan of anything if you'd rather see it die then let anyone experience it any other way than your ridiculously close-minded view. (Edit: You're even a fucking a hypocrite on top of that by starting with 4. Unbelievable.) You are the very definition of what is wrong fandoms and why they have become such a toxic hellhole.

[@1wayroad935]

Always love how Woolie will say that he will enjoy something the way he wants, yet condemn people who do the same but don't adhere to the specific thing he wants them to.

[@manticorephoenix]

It’s a tight rope to walk

[@gameb9oy]

When Woolie isn’t a coward, he’s a hypocrite. Not much you can do about it, does make it easier to laugh at the stuff he says though

[@ArosNacht]

Pat is the same if not worse, they're both hypocrites

[@WoolieVersus]

If someone asks my opinion I'll usually have an answer. If you don't want said opinion, do what you want, I promise I don't care.

[@zztzgza]

@@WoolieVersus Woolie, we're your audience. We will always give you shit about everything all the time, you cannot reason with us lol

[@TrojanGamer10]

Pat's face at "Floor Pie Eater" just screams "Oh geez that again?"

[@DP9k]

I dont think they ever really answered the question that was being asked. It was less about starting with hitman 3 and more about starting with the endgame content without any foundational knowledge going into it causing the task to be monumentally difficult, like slapping a man who’s never played super mario world into a kaizo romhack. Not so much as jumping into a new series from a different point, more doing a difficult challenge before even knowing how vanilla works

[@kareshy6549]

An interesting example given how they feel about it is the Fate/ series. I have seen SO MANY attempts to create a watch order or "How to get into" it. But it doesn't actually work like that. Almost all "Fate" titles with a different suffix are set in different universes, they have some overlapping characters, themes, and the same magic system and world as a base, but deal with the events of parallel worlds. Pat's on point with it: Pick up the one that catches your eye, don't try to play or watch through a backlog.

[@Kango234]

That's always a fun/annoying paradox, not sure if it's human nature, this "nerd" bubble I'm in or just that we have access to so much info today, people just overload on it. But yeah I feel like a lot of series go out of their way to be accessible like this, yet people just assume that the same franchise means it's all one story and if that's the case there must be only one way to start it, that's not even mentioning the gatekeeping fans will do. On a semi related note, it reminds me of when my little brother played FF7 Remake without the first one and when I asked how he felt about Sephiroth and stuff he replied with "Oh it's obviously a mystery so I don't expect all the answers". Now we can argue all day and night about how it could have been told better or less obtuse, but I do think it is funny that once you get out of this internet bubble, a lot of people aren't thinking that hard about this shit.

[@wilnich592]

Personally I find experiencing a series from start to end in release order is an extremely enriching experience. Not just for the game's story, but for the design evolutions or regressions from game to game along the way. It's like glimpsing into the mind of the devs and seeing where they go with their vision of the series, and what they learn or don't learn along the way.

[@ExaltedUriel]

I agree, it's one of my favorite things about the Metal Gear and Mother series. When you actually play all of them you realize how MGS1 is basically a soft-remake of Metal Gear 2 and how EarthBound is the same for Mother 1, lmao.

[@ryandavis4936]

pat's exactly right. i bounce off armored core because i try to start from the beginning, but playing 3 feels SO MUCH BETTER

[@gold_spin1639]

Lore videos/cutscene compilations are always an option. Like, when I was playing through the KH games, I played 1, started chain of memories, wasn’t a fan of the combat, and just watched all the cutscenes on youtube. Even with other stuff like yakuza I’ve used these types of videos or in game cutscene menus to catch myself up if I haven’t played in a long ass time or I want to refresh my memory.

[@unboundsky9999]

Y’know the whole “JoJo Part Skippers are scum” thing gets really silly when you’re looking at Part 7 which is an actual full on reboot. The only connections are some references in character names and the fact that stands exist (they don’t even have the same origin in the SBR universe).

[@mikaela5938]

part 7 is the only time that is applicable though bc everything preceding it was directly connected to each other. SBR is a lot better if you read/watched phantom blood through stardust crusaders though

[@jojak0512]

That's kinda the same thing as saying you could just skip parts 1-4 and go straight to 5 though. Is it actually necessary to watch the rest of the series to fully enjoy 5 as its own story? No, but it sure is a cooler experience. I think knowing the references in SBR are just as valuable as knowing Koichi and Polnareff.

[@chellejohnson9789]

As Pat said with DMC2, the best place to start is Yakuza 3 so it will all be uphill from there /s

[@PredictableEnigma]

People always hating on 3 😭 I loved that game more than both kiwami games

[@daquenking5261]

The creator of final fantasy said something about having a self contained story for each game.

[@HolyDeviant1]

I just wish people would stop treating a series and franchise with a single fucking starting point as a labrynth of confusing madness. Looking at you, Fate. IT'S A SINGLE VISUAL NOVEL FOR FUCK'S SAKE

[@kirbyfanprime]

Literally the example I was getting ready to make. If people who have consumed all the media can't come to a consensus of where to start, I, as a newbie, am not going to waste my energy trying to untangle that knot myself and just watch Carnival Phantasm as a form of absurdist humor.

[@HolyDeviant1]

@@kirbyfanprime I mean, there is a consensus - for Fate, it's FS/N, the visual novel. People just muddy the water by not wanting to read it, which is where all the "WHERE DO I START THIS SERIES THAT HAS A SINGLE STARTING POINT FOR ALL ITS LORE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND" comes from.

[@brisby169]

This was my email. I could've worded it better. I specifically meant jumping to the end of a game rather than the end of a series. It's probably rare, like the Freelancer mode is just there when you start, you don't unlock it. It would be like playing Bloody Palace without ever playing any dmc game. So skill issues instead of story compensation issues, but yeah. Still a decent discussion though.

[@Kango234]

To answer the very first question about content creators, I have to agree with Pat. As long as you go in with an open mind and give it an honest try then I can't get mad. But I do feel the frustration of people not knowing a franchise, losing repeatedly and getting mad at the game. In regards on where to start, as boring as this sounds, I really think it is a case by case basis. Like ultimately I want people to just join in the franchise and have a good time, but there are things like Metal Gear where I still have MGS1 as my favorite so there is zero reason for me to tell someone to skip ahead, especially since I don't even like the later entries. But even with that, I am one of those weirdos who started with MGS4 and was so enamored by all the crazy shit and how much reverence it had for its years of lore that I just had to dive in and see more.

[@GodKingReiss]

I recently went into the older Dragon Age games in preparation for Inquisition and the problem Pat mentioned hit WAY late in the process. DA: Origins and its expansions were an incredible 100 hours that filled the hole left by the MMOs of my youth. Meanwhile I still haven’t finished DA2 because I cannot fucking take another twenty hours of bland ass Kirkwall.

[@PopMusicKiller]

Still glad I watched all those GG lore videos.

[@occiferjehons2329]

The question is (I think) more talking about is more about gameplay than story. Hitman is a game where you are given two or more targets on a map filled with people you have to kill. The NPCs have routines you can learn and exploit to put yourself in a position where you know you'll end up to get a clean, silent, unnoticed kill. The new mode on the other hand gives you random targets on maps you have to kill, so some times you can get a target that pretty much stays close to huge groups of civilians at all times, making it at times almost impossible for you to get a kill without alerting the entire map unless you've already got a deep understanding in how to use your environment, how civilians and guards work and how to distract them. The new mode expects that you at least a basic understanding of how the gameplay loop works and does nothing to ease you into it, so when people just jump straight into the pool they'll often end up struggling and giving up, thinking the game is unfair when it's more that they didn't take the time to play the tutorial.

[@bicksbernd1640]

It ultimately depends on who you are asking and the franchise that they are getting into. If they do not care about the continuity and just want to play/watch the thing they find cool you can't force them to engage with the older stuff first. If they do care and have the time try to encourage them to get the full experience so they can hopefully like the thing as much as you do. A franchise that you get this question constantly with is Gundam and the answer to the question depends on which show you want to watch; are you getting into IBO, Witch, 00 or any other offshoot of UC? They can just start there. But if they want to start everything with Char's Counter Attack or something newer like Hathaway's Flash that's not a good idea at all because they will just be confused about stuff because the movies expect that you already know the key plot points that lead up to the current scenario.

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

There are definitely series where you should start at a certain point if you want to actually appreciate the games as they were. The best example off the top of my head is Persona/SMT where you should _not_ start with any game after manually picking your fusion inheritance became the norm. Manual fusion is such a great improvement and so much better than the previous system of "why is teaching my Pokémon a TM bound to fucking RNG" that if you don't experience the older games before you're familiar with the newer system, you'll _hate_ the tedium in the older games that you wouldn't have a comparator for otherwise.

[@Kango234]

Oh yeah that is actually a great point, I did start with the original P3, but I don't think I can ever go back to having random skills again.

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

@@Kango234 I'd also say this about series like Fire Emblem. The options in the newer games for building characters differently or just circumventing bad stat rolls really make going back to older games painful. "Ah my Marth has gotten nothing but RES for his first 3 levels, guess I'm restarting the game!" Is not fun after being able to meme your way through Three Houses with Mortal Savant Lysithea and Dancer Ferdinand.

[@clanofclams2720]

Was never a huge problem for me, who started at 5 and went backwards.

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

@@clanofclams2720 As someone who started with P4 Vanilla and went on to play all the Megatens on PS2, PSP, and onwards, I _hate_ going back to random inheritance to the point where I'd rather emulate and mod if I can. So it is ultimately personal taste but I imagine more people would be closer to my opinion than yours.

[@manticorephoenix]

Start where ya wanna start. if you want people to come along and share in the experience alongside you (like idk, financially support the franchise you enjoy so you can continue to enjoy it) then the last thing you wanna do is berate them to not enjoy the piece of that media they want to experience and instead put it on hold in line with how you wanna dictate, it risks turning them off and away and you’ve now become a gatekeeper

[@thunderbird2712]

After that wild hearts sponsor, I want to watch woolie and Reggie play a monster hunter game.

[@issaltarkorimara1376]

Funnily enough, this is what got me to watching SPFP and lets plays in general. It was a way to vet out game series to see “hey, would I enjoy this?” I mean I discovered the Yakuza series through you guys because of it. But it also had me avoid David Cage games because I was a poor college student…it’s also why I miss you guys and why I ol’ sbfp were around to play Forspoken and make the experience enjoyable.

[@LightningPuppet]

For me if the stories are directly connected and share charecters i always start from the beginning but if it's an anthology like Final Fantasy i tend to pick and choose ones that look fun to me

[@residentfan1521]

I always go in release order unless I hear from several different sources that the newest entry is separate enough that you’re not gonna be lost. For example my first RE game was 7. I started it because I heard that it was the least connected and it was. Then I went back and started from the beginning. And now 7 is the game I recommend to anyone who wants to get into RE to start with. Games like RE7 are great to get you into the series in question. If you liked this one you’ll probably like the others. That being said there’s definitely little things in the game that I would’ve understood better had I played the rest of series first. Like the file that name drops Alyssa Ashcroft or the newspaper mentioning Raccoon City. Or who Chris Redfield is. But none of that is really necessary to know during the game or it’s DLCs.

[@li-limandragon9287]

I started with RE4, then played the RE1make, then RE7, RE2 and RE3make and then Village. I’d play the originals if I had emulator or whatever.

[@uberpinkwarrior]

You know, I feel like for the trails series, Pat would enjoy the combat in it a lot, but wouldn't be into the story (at least for trails in the sky). Woolie, meanwhile, would probably enjoy the story and characters a lot, but wouldn't be into the gameplay that much. ...And I see both of them enjoying Ys a lot, especially once you get to the modern ones with just parries and just dodges.

[@SimplySwayze]

This conversation hits different for someone like me, who started Megaman at _Zero 2._

[@gumbiman3350]

It's 10x more important to read the book series before playing witcher 3 than it is playing 1and 2. 3 very rarely acknowledges the events of 1 and 2 outside of if you know the context of King Radovid and the complicated relationship of Geralt and Triss. If characters like Iorveth, Yaevinn or Saskia showed up (I wish they did) and were major elements to 3 then Pat would be in anyway correct here.

[@kaleb9596]

I love Woolie Versus

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you another interestig video!!

[@ApsuP]

I personally tend to go back and start things from the beginning, but also I do feel that if something catches your eye, you should go for it, unless you are sure you want to invest in long run and start from beginning. Especially video games, aren't really that complex that you can't follow them with just context clues. Like my first Mass Effect was 2, and I loved it and I was able to follow the story perfectly fine. Sure there were details I missed, but all the important bits came through. I met with Garrus, saw that he was cool looking dude, he said we are old friends and I believed that.

[@li-limandragon9287]

Still when the sequel gets so much hype that it overshadows the previous games, it’s real easy for people to suck it off too much. Tekken 3 is a prime example, yes it’s a good game but you shouldn’t disregard the previous two games entirely like many do.

[@jimmynicol7942]

I love Trails, but starting at Cold Steel is fine. Cold Steel is intended as just another Entry Point. The Entry Points are Trails in the Sky FC (Game 1), Trails of Cold Steel (Game 6), and Kiseki no Kuro (Game 11) is apparently a good entry point too. Start at one of them and you'll be fine. The whole Endgame thing isn't as severe as Endgame itself. It's mostly CS4, and all the characters from the older games get established pretty well before the "All of the Warriors" moment. It's also not ALL of them. The Trails of the Sky characters get reintroduced over all 4 Cold Steel games, and it's only the main four from the Crossbell games.

[@Terramagu]

The thing about Cold Steel is that it's... honestly kind of trash. Like, I love the Trails games. But they have some serious writing problems that only get worse as the series goes on. That, coupled with the dramatic tone shift, means that Sky is pretty much the only starting point for the simple reason that Sky and Crossbell are the best games in the series and everything past them is legit a trash fire. The only reason people say "play Cold Steel first" is because they shit their pants at the sight of PSX era graphics and want bad 3D anime models. That and the hellish translation issues where they skipped chapters 4 and 5 and only got translated because fans did it for them.

[@Fu345]

This is me with Metal Gear solid series. Started with Phantom Pain and knew pretty much nothing. I have played the other games and love the series now.

[@chocobomaster210]

As someone getting close to the end of the second Trails game, it's already paying off for me lol.

[@J_Themborn]

Tried doing this with Doctor Who start with black and white, Back when everyone tried watching everything show and anime on youtube so there were a lot of audio only episodes and that felt like would it took forever to listen through. Now I’ll look up what the popular episodes are and which has what I want to see like and learned about the Weeping Angel through the Fridge in Control.

[@vincenttorrijos9680]

This on the topic of Xenoblade games is actually pretty good, because 3 is definitively the pinnacle of that franchise, where each side of the war is the entire world from the other 2, but outside of moments involving the characters from past games, you don't really need the context those games would provide, but they do expand on questions you may have if you haven't played the other 2. This upcoming DLC, wave 4 actually probably will need the context from 1 and 2 because its looking to be the prequel story of how both those settings/factions got into the situation they're in at the start of the game.

[@blackdragoncyrus]

Start with Trails in the Sky, it's not confusing.

[@MusicAnonI]

My favorite series to answer this question with is Ace Combat. "Where do I start with Ace Combat?" Do you have a PS2? No? Then Ace Combat 7 Yes? Roll a dice. 1-2 is Ace Combat 04, 3-4 is Ace Combat 5, and 5-6 is Ace Combat Zero. Have fun. You will no matter where you start.

[@amahrle2767]

For me it's always production order usually. That way I can see the evolution of the series, the only time I did not do that was for Super Robot Wars where I started with Alpha Gaiden and that was more "play whatever is in english" until I got used to navigating the menus. I also do my god damn homework of a game or series so I don't become DMCV guy.

[@Chumbv]

As someone who got into Trails 5 months ago and has been going through all the games in release order this video feels like a personal attack.

[@AuspexAO]

You made the right call. It's madness to start the Trails saga in Cold Steel.

[@leithaziz2716]

My stance is that I'd recommend a solid starting point that's appealing to the person in question and let him play through the series in order, so that he can get to the most recent entry. However I have to give the newcomer a solid first impression so that he's willing to continue playing. To use Fromsoft's games as a comparison on what game to recommend they start with: Demon Souls: Do you want to see how the series evolved over time so that you appreciate the QoL additions and improvements made over time? If you'll tolerate the early Souls-jank, then play it. Dark Souls 1: Solid entry point in my opinion. Still has some jank but overall more polished than OG Demon Souls, so you might have a better 1st impression. If you liked the setting then luckily you have 2 more games that serve as a continuation. Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne: The more modern entries don't suffer as much from the jank I mentioned early on, and Bloodborne is a standalone game so you don't need to worry about "prepping up". Elden Ring: The newest game yet. Very popular and has a large, active community that can help you. I'd say this is the least commital game to jump into out of Fromsoft's lineup.

[@sadv3]

I finished legend of heroes trails in the sky and definitely want to finish SC and the 3rd, but dayum is it a time sink. For me its not that I don't want to play it, it's just that I could finish seven other games I want to play in the span of time it will take me to go through SC.

[@pawcanada]

I've been recently playing the AI Somnium games, and the second one introduced an interesting idea. At the start of the game, you're asked two questions from the ending of the first one. If you don't know the answers (admittedly the first was very specific and I had clean forgot that scene from the ending), the game will remove any references to end game moments from the first one. It does lead to a few moments where I feel they went back on ideas I had hoped to seen explored more in the sequel, such as dancing around/undoing certain revelations or supposedly major changes, and at most any references to the first game are more optional dialogue choices, but I do think it's a good idea for allowing someone to jump in on a later game and go back to the predecessor if they enjoy it without spoiling anything.

[@sinistersquest8174]

A new layer to this are console bundles that come with a game late in a series. Played Uncharted 3 first and loved it.

[@MarkGearRex]

I understand people not liking Witcher 1, but it's one of my favorite games I've played like 6 times. I find it's flavor of eurojank to be extremely charming, and the music and atmosphere is just top notch.

[@presquenolife]

Right ? Those kind of conversations always come with disregard for the value older game have to offer by themselves. Really, If you play Witcher 1for the sake of playing Witcher 3, of course you're not gonna have a good time. The advice should be to play Witcher 1 if you want to discover a cool game called Witcher 1.

[@EddykyleUk91]

For me personally i had to look to see where to start for some series but with one series in particual, I was like no i have to start here like a phycopath xD

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

This reminded me of the pain of having a friend who goes through the Xbox game pass, sees tons of amazing games you could put literally days into, and just goes “there’s really nothing to play” Jesus Christ

[@Reionder]

Release order all the wayyyyy

[@jklilly700]

17:52 that hit me very hard because I plan to see the metal gear series in chronological order but know the different snakes and how their different through fanfiction and phantom pain was made to clear up a plot hole.

[@kirbyfanprime]

I'd still watch/play them in release order, if only because later games that are earlier in the timeline will give you answers to questions you didn't even know you had yet. Unfortunately, I can't give any real solid examples off the top of my head. ChipCheezum has done very comprehensive deep dives of all the main line (Solid) games that I fully recommend if you don't want to actually play through the games.

[@GlemWalker]

A more crazy story is, I wanted to get into Dark Souls but my crackhead friend who owns them all and shares his steam library with me recommended I start with 2. So I did, and I beat Old Iron Lord where the feeling hit me that I should probably start with 1. So I did :)

[@Kango234]

It's funny you bring that up since Woolie also started with DS2 and eventually went back to play the other ones so that is a perfectly valid way to get into a franchise. Admittedly he did have Pat guiding him along the way on that journey.

[@TheSimpleMan454]

Metroid is good about: Yeah, just pick up a game and play it. But my discussion of this starts whenever I bring up The Black Company series. I will always say, the first one is really short, and sets up everything you need to know, from there follow the map. Books of the North takes up right after Black Company, Books of the South gets all the different people where they're at on their different journeys. From there once every character is where they're gonna be, pick one. Because it'll follow what happens to character X and character Y coming off of South. People will *still* argue with me "You have to read them in order of the release. It has to be completely by date chronologically no matter where you are, no matter who's account it is..." Etc. No. There is one big story. Big story is Company together, Starts North, heads Southward, BIG SHIT happens. From there pick up any of the little stories after with Sweet, or One Eye or whoever as they're doing their own thing. Don't just go "Oh, this is the order the author released them." Because even Glen Cook made the anthology collections, North, South, Deaths, and Returns to keep Big Story as one Big Story, and then let little stories happen.

[@barronvonnoodle]

I remember being paralyzed with playing final fantasy as a kid because how could i start with 7 if i haven't played the other 6. Now obviously that's silly in hindsight but before the internet how would one know that there was 0 connection

[@prowlingmonkey]

Symphony of the Night of course

[@li-limandragon9287]

I played Bloodstained first.

[@decus478]

To me the main question is "Will playing the newest one ruin the experience of going back to the older ones later, in terms of plot/story? Is basically the only enjoyable part of it going to be ruined forever by the newest game?" If the answer is no, you can play the game you want to play. And then you might enjoy playing the older titles since you've built up a basis with which to enjoy them, even if the gameplay isn't your thing. It can be hard to find somebody normal to give you the right answer, for you, to this question but once you can it's the right metric to use. Sometimes, the answer is even more complicated if the developer specifically says you can play the games in the "wrong" order and their suggested wrong order will essentially spoil one game versus the other depending on the order you play. They've built the game knowing people would want to just jump in and/or that the previous titles are like 10+ years old. This is also true of Falcom's legend of heroes series. They say pretty much every time that you can just jump in at the start of a new arc. There will be things that you, the player, will not know but guess what? The characters the story is following in each new arc also, also do not know! That's the point! You will be spoiled by some things, for sure, but playing the new arcs with prior knowledge also is a massive spoiler inherently because you have all sorts of knowledge about how things will and had played out that the focus characters do not! Choose your own spoiler. Starting mid-arc? That's weird because now you've broken out of that paradigm and you do not know things that the characters know. Otherwise? You're as in the dark as they are. It's fine. I played all of the games in release order, but have not heard once from somebody who started on Cold Steel that they regretted it. Some of them never went back to the other titles so obviously who cares about spoilers then. For the ones who did? Didn't feel super spoiled to the extent that they wished they would have played in the "correct" order. Instead, the "spoilers" are what motivated them to even bother going back.

[@locke2517]

Where do I start Kirby? Pat: perplexed pat noises* it's a marshmallow man!