Why DUNE is a Master Class in Sci-Fi Worldbuilding

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#Dune #DuneReview

[@MichaelVeillette]

Vaush now: The film was spectacular. Vaush after realizing the director is French Canadian: Dune Bad

[@MandoWren]

Pauvre Denis, JF Gariepy a vraiment traumatisé Vaush à l'idée des québecois hahah

[@not_imy]

​@@MandoWren bagette

[@MandoWren]

@@not_imy Typical

[@videotapes9965]

Denis is one of the good ones

[@MichaelVeillette]

@@MandoWrenHahaha, oui absolument !

[@MarkArandjus]

Not only is the 'white savior accusation' about the dumbest critique you could levy at Dune, knowing how the book ends, but the film explicity points out how the plotline with Paul being the messiah is an engineered manipulation to exploit the masses. _"I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: May be dangerous to your health." -Frank Herbert_

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

Lol during the whole book Paul is haunted by visions of a bloody interstellar war that is a direct result of his actions. Not very savior-like if you ask me. The savior narrative is pretty explicitly a conventional storytelling archetype whereby the characters’ decisions shape the narrative of the story, but Dune is a story all about how nobody is in control. The duke knows Arrakis is a trap, but he has to go anyways. The bene gesserit are usurped by their own attempt to breed a superhuman. The fremen are radicalized by beliefs forced upon them by the bene gesserit. Paul knows his actions will start a bloody interstellar war, but he also knows the war will happen with or without his involvement. The whole book is an examination of how something as complex and vast as an empire is beyond the control of any single person because these systems become self-reproducing

[@MindForgedManacle]

Not to mention (SPOILEEEEEER) Paul isn't even able to complete what the savior is supposed to do, it was too horrible. His biracial descendants do, but then it's not a white savior trope.

[@arskakarva7474]

​@@MindForgedManacle Also it can be argued if it counts as any sort of savior trope, given that the entire purpose of the Golden Path and the subtext of the books is that human beings want stability but what they need is change (in a very pointed manner, since the alternative is extinction), and it's heroes, leaders, and messiahs that most lure us down to stability (and regress to hierarchical systems like faufreluches; or Paul's empire). A particular detail I like that Herbert focuses on is how Muad'Dib the Hero as a Messiah completely erodes the moral agency of his followers. After all, like Gaius Helen Mohiam observes, unlike Laws of Man the Laws of God cannot be questioned (but as the books point out, fanaticism tends to interpret Laws of God to justify any action). ​ @Mercury Atamolos Kynes' last moments before the pre-Spice mass explosion kills him as he sees a memory of his father as a hallucination might as well be directly telling the audience that the book is a warning about what Heroes do to people. And indeed that those systems and events have weight and momentum of their own beyond any one person's control (hence Leto II's need to become a God that slithers among us, tyrannically ruling every aspect of our lives for millenia, so we as a species learn a lesson about wanting stability and Heroes).

[@saranghae1saranghae]

Yeah, I read all of the six Frank Herbert Dune books in my early 20s. The "white savior" trope is not appicable, and anyone making this assessment didn't read the first book at all. I personally hate white savior stories, but thank Gode Dune isn't that. It's more of a critique on religion, trade, and politics as the allegories are pretty clear. I'm an old black man now, and Dune has been my favorite science fiction for a couple decades.

[@TeiwazTheGoat]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 Fucking nailed it!

[@stoopidpants]

Seriously if you read Dune and come away with "oh another white savior story" didn't really read Dune as written.

[@MindForgedManacle]

They're obviously basing off the movie, which doesn't even finish the first book. He just isn't a white savior, as the sequels clearly show.

[@Nsuage]

Yeah not much savioring happening during a universal religious war where billions die...

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

@@MindForgedManacle Paul is more like a sympathetic version of Hitler. He’s just one charismatic dude taking advantage of groundwork that was laid centuries before. The only difference is that Paul constantly regrets the power thrust upon him

[@stoopidpants]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 I wouldn't go that far; he sees many possible futures and chooses the one where he becomes the fremen savior which leads to war. I think, in the beginning, he does it for somewhat moral reasons; to avenge his father and make the known universe more fair. It just doesn't work out like that. Herbert always said his book is about how "Charismatic leaders should come with a warning label: May be bad for your health". It's a subversion of the "chosen one" myth.

[@branflake6048]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 Right but using Hitler to describe him might give people the idea he was a ruthless man. His prescience more or less shows him exactly whats going to happen. His Jihad spreading throughout the galaxy is inevitable, no matter how hard he tries he can't stop it fully. The 60 billion deaths were a minimum. He could only lessen the impact which is assumed what Paul did in Dune: Messiah iirc. He goes full doomer mode once his eyes get melted out of his skull for obvious reasons. I'd say the big cut off point was the fight with Jamis. if Paul, Jessica, and the band of Fremen were instantly nuked from orbit Paul's Jihad would never have happened. That being said humanity would've most likely been doomed anyway since Leto II would never have been born and thus would never be able to set humanity on the Golden Path.

[@SantamanitaClauscaria]

“When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late.” ― Frank Herbert, Dune

[@saranghae1saranghae]

[insert crashing noises]

[@dantecaputo2629]

‘The future of Dune is kind of bad.’ What? Nah... space feudalism sounds like such a such a stable form of government! Especially the part where there entire economy is based on a single presumably finite resource.

[@finngardiner5358]

spice is renewable, in that it is continuously produced by the worms. whether it's produced at a rate equal to how fast it's being harvested is another question however

[@flunkiebubs2002]

@@finngardiner5358 And when the God-Emporer achieves the golden path, they have an infinite source of spice.

[@dylandog2296]

The economy sustains itself off finite resources? Sounds familiar...

[@justin-md4xm]

isn't it worm poop?

[@davidwooden3878]

@@flunkiebubs2002 no, the source isn't infinite. The supply chain is just reconstructed since the worms return

[@Dennis94913]

I love the fact that the first part of Dune was just world building, mad props to the director and writers.

[@nobleradical2158]

Just like the book. Glad they had the faith to recreate it.

[@f1nger605]

"Fury road is just them driving one way then driving the other way." Yeah, if you completely ignore the characters, action scenes, and literally everything about the story, Fury Road is just about people driving.

[@SA-mo3hq]

Plus PTSD

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

I wonder which political interpretation of a feel good movie makes him come to this retarded conclusion.

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

Guys why are you getting so upset over an obviously hyperbolic statement?

[@chriss790]

@@mielipuolisiili7240 Well, I mean, when anyone replies to these it's kinda obvious the response is just an equally cynical 'No, you suck'. I don't think anyone with a brain overlooks the little nuances they did in Fury Road, but it mostly IS a movie made with an excuse to create spectacular prop cars filmed in an unreal setting. You don't watch it for the plot.

[@RicardoMoralesMassin]

Driving Miss Daisy is just about people driving.

[@RetroAndChill]

I've noticed, sci-fi and fantasy usually are done best in litereature, animation, or video games, where you don't have to constrain yourself to the limits of human actors.

[@SuzakuX]

Less the limits of human actors and more the limits of practical, physical production. Literature and animation effectively have no limit but the imagination, but live action film production is greatly limited by cost as you ramp up in scale and complexity. Though technology is making big strides. _The Mandalorian_ is pretty cutting edge in the way they incorporate virtual sets and practical models. For a TV budget, they do absolutely amazing things.

[@catStone92]

I mean, you can do both with only human people in it...

[@Commandosoap777]

Lotr blade runner and a few other movies are the only few exceptions

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

It Is a matter of budget. Movie adaptations of sci fi and fantasy are expensive and require lots of special effect.

[@QT5656]

17:50 the whole point of fury road is surely that sometimes you actually need to deal with the mess where you are not run away to some imaginary utopia.

[@SA-mo3hq]

Plus 'Monke together = strong'

Yeah dune is pretty cool - as long as you forget the sand, that is. I really don't like sand. It's coarse, rough and irritating - not to mention that it gets everywhere.

[@zakstarkiller1850]

TRUE

[@jamesrostein8643]

What???

[@jamesrostein8643]

That’s fascism

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@jamesrostein8643 dude, not only do you badly troll Vaush comments sections, you also don't know what memes or jokes are???

[@SoSoMikaela]

Soft and smooth, ftw. Feminize Arrakis!

[@pessolano461]

Chatter: "The plot was them driving one way, then driving the other." Vaush: "Yeah, furiously."

[@SuperSecretAgentNein]

I loved that bit, but I wish Voosh took a minute to explain that a simple plot doesn’t necessarily equal a bad plot.

[@SolEiji]

Dune does the brutalism look well.

[@amellirizarry9503]

nice to see a fellow Nowhere Grotesk fan

[@iuriepripa3171]

brutalism with trees but we are on arrakis, so... no trees

[@Xaphnir]

I wonder if shoe's seen the movie

[@duncanbug]

Vaush: The movie really made it feel like a completely different world! Chat: Do they still have gender and everything?

[@duncanbug]

To be clear I do support gender critique and think the binary is dumb. But this made me laugh that it was the first question 🤣 that’s all.

[@aguspuig6615]

why as someone with 90% clearly lefty opinions i dont wanna be asociated with the left

[@fungibu7184]

Star Trek is probably the best socialist sci-fi world-building ever. Of course, it always has been limited by the time period it's made in. Modern Star Trek has completely abandoned the super interesting socio-economic commentary of TNG and just turned into a kick, punch, explosion fest.

[@Bnio]

The best of Star Trek always felt like it was trying to live a decade ahead of its time. A multicultural crew, written at the height of the Civil Rights movement. A DS9 story that had echoes of 9/11... five years before 9/11 (and the great Sisko quote/warning, "It's easy to be a saint when you live in paradise.") Which is probably my biggest criticism of current Trek. I don't really know what Picard or Discovery is aspiring to.

[@jeanleongerome4098]

@@Bnio they're aspiring to give Paramount, Alex Kurtzmann and Patrick Stewart a lot of money

[@SuzakuX]

Having never read the book and only seeing the Lynch adaptation once when I was like seven, I went in fearing that it would feel reverse-derivative of all the other sci-fi I've seen. But quite the opposite, it feels _so much more_ fleshed out and fully realized.

[@djkb125]

I had no knowledge of the story going in and didn’t know what was going on the whole first hour or so but by the end of that hour and for the rest of the movie I knew what was going on and got to enjoy the whole story. It was brilliant the way they set everything up! No big exposition dump. The movie told you the story as it went along. It was so impressive.

[@rustyATV]

It was MUCH smoother going than 1984 Dune, that tried to set up all the background info and inner dialogues.

[@cabbagesprinkles7322]

I’m about half way through the original Dune book and it’s a bit of a slow start but I’m so glad I stuck with it it’s amazing! Some of the quotes between chapters hit pretty hard and I find how the author describes things so satisfying.

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

The books are so goddamn quotable. My *favorite* was "when is a gift not a gift" gets me everytime

[@mackielunkey2205]

I know there's quite a few people who don't like Frank's prose, but honestly, I found it super digestible.

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

Fear is the mind killer

[@njm2699]

Yeah totally agree. I’m reading Dune and ASOIF at the same time, and both books are very methodical and like to take its time. I love it though bc I like books that talk about politics and themes related as such so I have no problem w it.

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

Those chapter quotes become even better in the future books. Good luck on your journey to the Dune universe, just please stick with Franks books, don't tread into Brians.

[@Infinite_voyager]

Dune + the foundation trilogy are the basis for the thinking person sci-fi, can’t wait for part 2

[@jessicawilson1751]

I need to read Foundation. My dad bought me the SciFi Dune miniseries when I was in high school, which got me to read the first book. My dad went and reread all the Dune books and all the new ones (the House books), and then he went through all of the Foundation books. I tried the first Foundation book and it was hard to get into at the time. I want to give them another shot, but I have so little time to read. I used to love reading but grad school killed my desire to read anything new...

[@davidwooden3878]

@@jessicawilson1751 may I suggest audiobooks? I have little enough time to read, but I can be busy and enjoy my stories

[@Xaphnir]

It's too bad the Foundation adaptation was fucked up so badly. Though, to be fair, I think that series would be even harder to adapt properly than Dune.

[@jessicawilson1751]

@@Xaphnir I haven't seen the Foundation series, but isn't it basically math magic? My dad said that it was hard for him to imagine it being done as a TV series.

[@jessicawilson1751]

@@davidwooden3878 I don't often have the focus for audio books. Either I'm driving and I have a hard time absorbing information while focusing on the road, and at work I constantly getting interrupted even though I work in a research lab for a university. I have tried them a few times but haven't finished a single one. I even have the audio book for Dune and I've read most of the book so far and only listened to a few chapters.

[@ashton7742]

Spectacular setting + Spectacular Director = Spectacular Movie

[@Altermerea]

Spectacular comment

[@njm2699]

@@Altermerea spectacular reply

[@liammiller6247]

The fact that anyone can say Fury Road was dogshit was watching it with the intent to hate it. Legitimately dumbfounding take.

[@hailcthulhu419]

Agreed. I wonder if they were an anti-sjw that moved left and this is just a holdover position that they are holding on to.

[@MindForgedManacle]

Almost guaranteed that's an old anti sjw opinion that got held over. Opinions exist, I get it, but the way chat described it sounded like fuckin Cinema Sins level """analysis"""

[@KrazyZombieMan]

I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s bad, just not my taste. I’m not a fan of the post apocalyptic/drive car fast/psycho raider kind of genre. Same goes for the Borderlands games. A lot of people do like it though.

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

@@MindForgedManacle as a Person that Is everything but SJW why would I hate Fury Road? It Is a very good movie.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@lanfrancoadreani9212 anti SJWs weren't just not SJWs, they were cringe right wingers who called media analysis fake and indoctrination, and said that feminists were trying to destroy western society and hate men. So when they "reviewed" Fury Road, their stupidity was on full display. I'm just referencing that.

[@folder503]

Dune was so good - can’t wait to see Part 2

[@jamesrostein8643]

You are a fascist than..

[@gjinoqorri7464]

Fash

[@robertgudd7196]

@@jamesrostein8643 ahhh you're a troll, nice bait you got me

[@hailcthulhu419]

It was and me too. 🤘

[@jamesrostein8643]

@@robertgudd7196 ???

[@auto117666]

Watched the 80s version, which made me read the books in my early 20s. I loved it, but it was not until I reread the books in my 30s when I read more philosophy and scifi novels that I really appreciate how genius the books truly were. The 2021 Dune movie was amazing. I am glad Denis(sp?) shows and does not spend time to try to explain the tech. The shields are a direct counter to laz guns which would annihilate both the user and defender. I am also glad that they are not building a Christ-like figure out of Paul as they did in the 80s movie and hopefully they show the true power of the Sisterhood. Also, Dune is an AnCap future.

[@jessicawilson1751]

Have you seen the SciFi miniseries? I can't stand Lynch's Dune, but the miniseries was fantastic. I haven't seen the new Dune yet (I will over Thanksgiving break with a friend) but I'm super excited to see it.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@jessicawilson1751 like V said, my experience suggests having subtitles on. Everytime they spoke in a different language and whispered I couldn't tell what they hell they were saying, lol

[@auto117666]

@@jessicawilson1751 Yes, and that was my fav version till 2021, but I wish the costume department toned it down a bit. =)

[@jessicawilson1751]

@@MindForgedManacle have you seen the Lynch movie? So many internal monologs and lots of whispering. I haven't seen the new Dune yet, but I know a lot of movies seem to think that people have to talk in whispers.

[@randomjunk1977]

I'm a little surprised they never explained that interaction in the movie. Lasguns are the ultimate battlefield weapon but they're useless anywhere someone might be using a shield because you might blow yourself up at any moment. Shields are ubiquitous in the universe because they make you basically immune to pretty much everything except those lasgun interactions and melee weapons. Except on Dune you can't use shields outside the cities because it enrages the sandworms and being shielded doesn't help you when you get swallowed whole. So the Harkonnen and Sardaukar come heavy with lasguns when they invade. We see them using them in the movie and those not familiar with the source material might wonder why so much melee fighting is happening when those weapons exist.

[@MindForgedManacle]

As he mentioned, the audio mixing was really dogshit in places. I had to watch it again with subs to better enjoy it. Though I read it in High school, I never realized Dune had sequels, lmao

[@zr_1234]

They took the Nolan approach.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@zr_1234 aw shit, don't get me started on Tenet. Movie had ridiculous audio

[@chriss790]

Yes true. And in places the lighting too - /watch?v=xSYnhYR2VK4I , 5:53 onward. They filmed these few sandworm shots like you're supposed to look and see some detail but couldn't because of how grey/overcast the environment was. Sometimes similar feelings during the Harkonnen raid. But those I feel are more kinks in an overall great cinematography.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@chriss790 Honestly any time they switched from English or whispered I just couldn't hear anything lol

[@timothymcqueen3408]

I love marveling at how impossibly huge things are in Dune.

[@timothymcqueen3408]

I think my favorite sci-fi world is Cowboy Bebop. It's so cohesive and there's so much intuition put in every little thing.

[@brettuhl7818]

It's funny when people call Dune a white savior movie not knowing Paul's outcome

[@petrfedor1851]

I mean if you stratch definition of saviour enough...

[@saranghae1saranghae]

Yeah, let's just stretch the meaning of the word savior to its thinnest reaches.

[@jamilabubakar5811]

Valerian and the city of a thousand planets had pretty good world building. It didn't break any box office records but it was visually stunning. Also directed by a French dude as it happens lol. EDIT: If you don't like Mad Max: Fury Road, you're actually communist

[@mitchellturner470]

Zendaya literally says “I wonder who our next oppressors will be” and it cuts directly to Paul. Definitely not a white savior movie

[@tonykirk8295]

To be fair, there is a title card between her saying that and Paul coming on screen. The title card interrupts it enough to where you might not make the connection.

[@christophergreen6595]

He will lead them to conquer the universe and lose themselves completely... and then, of course, the golden path.

[@furiousapplesack]

I watched it in the theater and I will never forget the experience. I've never seen anything like it, it stands completely in its own space. I swear it seemed like literal space aliens made a movie they thought humans would enjoy and it resulted in every character acting, appearing and speaking as if they were mid-mushroom trip. Which makes sense considering the spice. A half hour in I was filled with regret at not considering putting myself in that particular state of mind (it was an option), but at least I know there will be a second one to experiment with in that way.

[@Nsuage]

Never read the books. Watched the movie and now the universe has been the hyperfixation of my ADHD. It really is a lot richer than i imagined. Im late to it but im really enjoying the universe.

[@supershinigami1]

read the books now then

[@dumat100]

Dune throws a lot at you in the beginning. Read the appendices first. There's stuff that seemed spoilery in it, but as I read the spoilery stuff got revealed way before it happens anyway cause of Paul's future sight, so you should be fine.

[@aidangillard2041]

Hmm okay, I just finished the first book and didn't realize there were appendices ahaha

[@MindForgedManacle]

Funnily when I read it in highschool, I didn't know it had sequels even though it was obviously unfinished. Only found out it wasn't a one off a couple months ago when friend asked me how the sequels were 😅😅

[@matthewwatkins9030]

Paul is a white saviour in dune, but as a critique of the trope, so in novel 2 and 3, most of Paul's arc is realising what he is done and how he has trapped himself into a terrible path. The whole series is intended as a critique of various styles of leadership, even Leto Atriedies.

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

Who did he save in dune tho lol? Don't you need to save poc to be a white savior? He didn't save anuone lmao

[@griffinhunter3206]

@@RespectTheSourceMaterial Paul is foreign to the Fremen, is literal greek nobility who comes upon these culturally persectued and arab-coded clans and is adopted into a clan because he was so naturally skilled at their way of life and because he fulfills a prophecy, and through his leadership they stop being persecuted and come to rule over the entire planet while he becomes emperor of the universe.

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

@@griffinhunter3206 what? Where did they show that to the movie? I think you're talking about the book. I'm talking about the journalists who were saying that dune is white savior after they've only seen the movie. Like where in the movie paul saves anyone?

[@griffinhunter3206]

@@RespectTheSourceMaterial you are saying that in the worst place to say that in this comment section, in reply to someone saying that paul is a white savior in the books (as a critique). How in the world would i get that you are talking about journalists and not the person you replied to?

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

@@griffinhunter3206 yea you're right. I thought the comment talked about the movie not the book. Sorry.

[@TheProGiraffe]

One of the main concernes the Dune story focuses on is the danger of charismatic leaders, that even with good intentions, could never live up to fulfill what they have been set up to do. Pretty sure Quins Ideas talked about that aspect as well, this is the best I can describe it. So Dune beeing „White-savior“ is not just false its the exact opposite and part one has been laying a little ground work for that as well, when Paul questions his destiny and the more or less manufactured faith the people have in him (or let to believe).

[@Anansi1701]

You can also view the reliance and utilization of superstition as a parallel to the creation, dissemination and utilization of conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, as popular as Dune was not enough read it to foresee Trump.

[@zr_1234]

The Chad Oscar Isaac in Dune vs The Virgin Oscar Isaac in Star Wars

[@aidangillard2041]

Just finished reading the first book of dune, and it's incredible!!! Denis is my favourite director, and seeing the movie inspired me to read it :D

[@jessicawilson1751]

My dad showed me the SciFi mini series (not the David Lynch movie) when I was in high school and it made me very interested in reading the book. I've read the book twice since seeing the miniseries, and now am reading it again (I'm catching so much stuff I missed before) before I see the movie with a friend during Thanksgiving week. I'm remembering why I adore the book and I'm getting super hyped over seeing the new movie.

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

you'll blow your mind by the time you reach book number 4.

[@aidangillard2041]

@@LuisManuelLealDias :D

[@timothymcqueen3408]

Mad Max: Fury Road is like an anime arc in my eyes. You know the main character, you're introduced to the villain, and then the next 95% of it is a big fight where you learn about more main and secondary characters, see all of the villain's henchmen, and they use the character development they got to win the fight.

[@Zino_blade]

Not a fan of brutalism architecture irl, but damn the space ships looked neat

[@rodrigodemiguellamminen5244]

As soon as I saw Denis Villeneuve was the director, I remember being very relieved. He's an excellent director and, in my opinion, one of the best of our generation (at least one of my top three). Only slightly disappointed with the studio for delaying part 2 when this movie was obviously going to slap hard (despite their weird release scheduele; I live in Spain and saw it a whole month before it was even released in the US and by the time it was released it was readily available for high quality piracy, idk, weird decision). I only hope people keep going to the cinema for movies like these so movies like these can keep getting made. As for the "white savior" thing, whoever says that is an imbecile who is incapable of understanding the most simple of critical thought, like it's explicitly anti-colonialist.

[@Zeliek]

As a warhammer nerd along with all the similarities I too saw at one point i thought... "Hey you know what would work great against those forcefield shields?? Chainswords!!! Oh wait....."

[@ash12181987]

The only bad exposition dump was Exposition Bot, Paul's little tutor bot from the beginning, and it wasn't all that bad. As to Dune, my understanding and my read of the book has always been that Dune is a read of 'Power is Bad.' I dislike the 'Dune is a White Savior' thing, because the main is not at all a... Savior. He doesn't really save anyone, he exploits the living hell out of everything, and the movie's strongest point is really painting that plainly in the open front and center. The whole point ultimately, and Frank Herbert spelled this out, was that Power is Destructive. Hierarchical structures bad. This is the other role of the Harkonen. The Baron and his family aren't just Evil, they are goddamned Demonic. That's the only way the main doesn't look like a huge jerk, is to put him against someone that is literally a pedophile that genocides people out of disinterest.

[@WBWhiting]

Does the new movie version of Dune have Sting in a thong? No? Then it sucks.

[@davidwooden3878]

Based

[@ihavenoname4139]

Vaush would love the original Halo trilogy. Everything feels so alien yet so realistic given how old the game is

[@lololol924]

I think Halo 3 kinda fails at concluding the events in a thematically satisfying way tbh. There wasnt enough time spent taking in the scenery of the Ark, which is supposed to be the PEAK forerunner construction. Though it was a very gung ho power trip vibe, which is fun. Halo 1 is a masterpiece though in terms of art direction (assuming you play in classic graphics).

[@ihavenoname4139]

@@lololol924 true. But halo 3 brought the covenant to an end. 343 decided to continue the story which so far i don't have a huge issue with Idk, the world building in the halo universe is up there with doom

[@lololol924]

@@ihavenoname4139 I havent kept up since 343 took over. From what i gathered, the Covanent in later games are just splinter factions from the remnants. Kind of interesting i suppose, but doesn't really seem to pose the same threat anymore.

[@ihavenoname4139]

@@lololol924 well yes, but the forerunners kind of came back and halo 5 happened (the only halo i hate) But now there's a new faction called the banished which is run by brutes. They hold no relations to the previous covenant and actually respect their warriors. We're gonna be fighting them in halo infinite which releases next month

[@njm2699]

@@ihavenoname4139 I can’t wait! Are you excited for halo infinite? I’m just happy we are going to explore zeta halo.

[@Robiness]

I feel like lot of people who's only idea of sci-fi is like Marvel and maybe Star Wars is not gonna appreciate Dune. It's absolutely spectacular movie that just sucks you in with it's storytelling, atmosphere, visuals and _oh my god_ the sounds design! But already i see people saying it's dog shait because _"it's too long and nothing happens"_ It makes me so sad that some people just don't have the attention span to let themselves be introduced to other world. Instead they just want the exposition to be done with in in first five minutes of narration or smtg and get to the action fights already smh.

[@MindForgedManacle]

It's weird. Within 10 minutes my mom was like "I feel like this is Star Wars", and she seemed to enjoy it well enough (more than me; I experienced what Vaush mentioned about bad audio, only I was having major brain fog at the same time 🙃). A second viewing with subtitles was muuuch better. Felt like a well done adaptation.

[@rasheedqe]

Vaush - The dune future is kinda bad. Book readers - Yeah and world war 2 was a little war that was not all that important.

[@Xaphnir]

One critique I have of shields in the movie is that it never explains or shows the interaction between shields and lasguns. I was really hoping it was going to show a lasgun-shield explosion at some point.

[@johannesgrell4356]

I bet they're just saving some of the good stuff like the lasgun explosions and interstellar travel visualization for the next movie(s).

[@phatman9762]

The white savior argument would be valid if not for the Missionaria Protectiva which is (spoilers) when the Bene Gesserit sisterhood sends missionaries to a primitive culture and seeds it with prophecies and lore so that when/if other members of their sisterhood visit much much later they can take advantage of that "religion".

[@NinjaThatLongboards]

When they say Dune is the foundation of 40k they mean it literally

[@opheliagrey2597]

Havent watched Dune, but I'd assume they use swords when (I assume energy) shields exist is because the shields respond to kinetic force above a certain threshhold, say...the velocity of a bullet. But ignore anything slower. That's how Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic handled shields.

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

There are laser guns as well, but in the book it’s explained that if a laser gun bolt hits a shield, both the shield-user and the person holding the gun are killed in a mutual explosion

[@russellward4624]

Basically they progressed so far technology wise they had to go back to simple weapons like swords to defeat the shields.

[@jmrtnez]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 Correct, a mutual explosion with the force of a nuclear bomb. Hence, it's tactically untenable for just about everyone involved.

[@hailcthulhu419]

Yup. They both borrowed that idea from Dune.

[@petrfedor1851]

Stargete did that too with Goaul´d personal shields.

[@JurasJankauskas]

Now we just have to wait till Tim Pool releases a video where he claims Dune criticizes communism somehow

[@andrewsmith8715]

Its hilarious how the right always misses the point.

[@davidwooden3878]

It's really inevitable, isn't it

[@andrewsmith8715]

@@davidwooden3878 Shapiro already claimed House Harkonnen were a stand in for the soviets lol

[@davidwooden3878]

@@andrewsmith8715 ah yes, I thought I had heard. You can tell how communist they are from all the.. exploitation and rigid aristocracy. Just like the state-less, class-less Harkonens Okay actually he has a point. The Harkoknens have no class

[@andrewsmith8715]

@@davidwooden3878 Harkonnens are disgusting they also epitomize capitalism and greed perfectly.

[@J0sh_395]

Sci-if amateur fans: what you prefer, Star Wars or Star Trek? Me: Dune

[@SoSoMikaela]

I can never decide between Dune and Foundation. They're like flip sides of the same coin in terms of some of the main concepts they tackle and I honestly love that. Just depends on what mood I'm currently in.

[@amellirizarry9503]

never understood why Star Wars is so popular, it feels pretty derivative, like all the cool worldbuilding stuff that it has were done before by people like Ursula Le Guin or Frank Herbert but better

[@SoSoMikaela]

​@@amellirizarry9503 I think it was just the jumping off point for a lot of people to get into sci-fi, often at a young age. Star Wars probably more than anything else made the genre accessible to the mainstream. So it carries that fondness and nostalgia, like the experience of a first high that you can never recreate no matter how many times you chase it. A lot of people just never grow enough to re-analyze the films from a deeper and more honest perspective, it's all just about those feels.

[@hailcthulhu419]

Me; Star Trek when I want to feel hope about the future, Dune when I want to be realistic about the future. Star Wars is a fantasy franchise. I like it, but it isn't really sci Fi.

[@amellirizarry9503]

@@SoSoMikaela fair, i didn’t really have the experience of growing up with it mainly because it wasn’t really marketed much to my country until disney bought the rights, and that was when i was in my late high school years

[@desmondkurtz1936]

10:37 they could make a movie about the Romanovs and Ben would call them commies.

[@shady8045]

Jesus fucking Christ that is so awful lmao, I feel like that's such a new low that I almost hope it convinces people that he is full of shit just based on that. Honestly I'm surprised someone like him even watched the movie. He seems like a "Marvel or bust" guy.

[@zotaninoron3548]

"The book has a lot of dialogue you cannot bring into the movie. There's a lot of internal monologue..." Alan Smithee/David Lynch would disagree! HAHAHA.

[@davidwooden3878]

Ugh, wouldn't they just

[@Robiness]

Unfortunately loll

[@jamierichardson7683]

Herberts world creation was what made the books so great. Very pleased to hear its captured in the film

[@vantahawk2834]

Innuendo Studios made that ridiculously ambitious video series on why Mad Max: Fury Road was great, a deep analysis of female character portrayal in the movie specifically, which partially went over my smol hed but still. I mean I thought Fury Road was cool and all, but that is the kind of shit that makes you care more about a movie than you ever imagined you could.

[@kylehanna4885]

This really makes me want to buy Vaush a beer and geek out over the rest of the Dune series.

[@nuanceblacksywin4868]

Guys, just one thing: If there's just one movie that you'll watch at the cinema in you life....then THIS is that movie! (And probably the next one as well.) You really really miss out if you watch this at home!

[@babosanders5223]

i regret illegally streaming it. might drop a movie ticket price to re-watch

[@invanorm]

Bladerunner 2049 was so fucking good in the cinema. Undoubtedly the best cinema experience of my life. So if Dune is anything close to that I’d say anyone watching it at home for the first time is really missing out. I’m in Australia so I’ve still some more weeks of waiting before it releases here.

[@nuanceblacksywin4868]

@@invanorm I'm ashamed to say that I haven't seen that one. But Dune is certainly the one of the BEST cinema experiences in my life. Avatar was cool as well, but this... Being enveloped by the audio, the score, the large screen, and the pure art that is this movie... It's worth it!

[@bcozillion5755]

It's also a master class in staring off into the distance,they nailed that

[@mhlkta8516]

Class, intelligence, sophistication! Things missing from American cinema for so long . Thank you, Denis V.

[@roobthenoob6607]

Just popping in here to criticize the thumbnail. How can you add stillsuit tubes and not make Vaush's eyes completely blue? I bet he's not even addicted to spice.

[@22Vnnami]

Definitely can agree on that audio balancing, especially when Jessica is saying her fear is the kind killer monologue the first time. If I hadn’t read the book I wouldn’t have understood half of it. Otherwise, so good, characters were awesome, I imagined the baron fatter but they did at least got him floating which was important to me compared to the other imaginings. The shield combat was done perfectly as i imagined it in the books and the pacing was great, 2 and a half hours, never overstayed its welcome and ended at the perfect mid point.

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

The only part I wish they included was the intrigue and mutual suspicion of all the main characters after they get to Arrakis. It would have made the twist that Yue was the traitor hit a little harder. But that probably would’ve added at least another half hour to the runtime

[@zipblockarchives900]

Never read the books, I loved the movie, and my god the music is amazing.

[@andrewsmith8715]

I love seeing comments like this! Welcome to the fandom.

[@Zfglx]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but another part of the reason that guns and specifically lasguns are less commonly used is that when a lasgun attack hits a shield the result is a nuclear explosion. This naturally discouraged the use of lasguns where shields were employed.

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Have read the books through about 3 times and really the first book is just a setup, it is a great opening salvo but the real stuff kicks off in Dune Messiah. I think my favorite part in the movie is the amtal fight with Paul and Jamis, the moment when Paul embraces his place in destiny and starts to take a step toward terrible purpose you can see it physically on his face as he stabs him, great scene.

[@padairua8129]

The White Saviour thing can only come from someone who hasn’t finished the book or only glossed it over. The whole raison d’être of it is to critique Messianic Saviours - if there’s a plot element about Paul that makes you nervous: good! It’s all part of the point. Spoilers: For more emphasis and the actual ending to that plot line - read Dune Messiah

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

The best part of the movie by far in my opinion was Paul's visions of Jamis. That wasn't in the book, it's an original idea and adds so much depth to the ending event of the film. It added so much humanity to that character and weight to Paul's decisions, it was so fucking good. Other than that it would have to be "Here I am, here I remain!", which is also different in its use from the book but fits in beautifully. Duncan's character was developed far better than it was in the book, which was a welcome addition. Though I do wish we had the "My blade was first blooded on Grumman!" scene and subplot included. I hope to see more of Hawat, Halleck, and hopefully Feyd in Part 2.

[@christophergreen6595]

Yes. Loved that little change. Also the more careful inclusion of thr bull figures.

[@pinkmenace2452]

here in 2024 waiting for vaush to do a segment on part 2

[@TerminallyOnlineLeftist]

Man, I guess I'm gonna have to read and watch this soon. I can't get away from people talking about it.

[@jessicawilson1751]

I'm rereading the book again for the 3rd time, the last time I read the book was a decade ago. It is an amazing book.

[@davidwooden3878]

One of us... one of us.. one of us. One of us!

[@jonathanhernandez3292]

cyberpunk IS science fiction it is specifically a sub-genre like hard SF (Expanse), science fantasy (Star Wars), space opera (Dune), etc one notable difference is that cyberpunk is a much more recent and grounded sub genre compared to space opera - partially because it happened after the cultural revolution and the literary new wave in SF

[@Alexander-kc8oq]

People who say that Dune is a white saviour movie don´t seem to relize that this critique has been equally prevelent and equally wrong for the enirety of the books 50+ year existence. It´s not a white saviour movie/book. It´s an anti-white-saviour movie/book. No spoilers but uhm... Paul is *not* a good guy in the grand scheme of things in Dune. And neither the movie nor the book frames it in such a way. To quote the book: "No more terrible disaster could befall your people than to fall into the hands of a hero".

[@MindForgedManacle]

Not even just that, but SPOILERS Paul can't even fully become what the savior was supposed to do. One of his biracial children do, and it requires horrible things. It's literally a criticism of white savior and charismatic leaders.

[@PaperBenni]

Another great example of this is the series dynamo by ian hubert (mostly uploaded on the channel karmapirates, new episodes will now come out on the channel ian hubert). It's mostly made by a single dude who is basically a projection mapping god and it looks SO GODDAMN PHENOMENAL. He is legitimately one of the most underrated artists I've ever seen. Like there's just all sorts of technologies or systems that are different from what we have that you don't even all pick up on first watch. But because that thought goes into everything you see on screen, whatever you're looking at you're bound to find something cool

[@thebeegone]

Bro, no the shields will explode like a nuke when a laser hits them, that’s why they use melee weapons. They didn’t explain that in the movie.

[@kellz9972]

It's probably been said. But they use swords and body shields because a lazgun shooting a body shield would cause the equivalence of a nuclear explosion. So swords are used because a slower penetration can puncture through the body shield without an explosion.

[@ukyoize]

That is still stupid.And would make assasins job easier.

[@KINGofGUNS]

I highly recommend the first 4 books. If they make Dune Messiah (Book 2) as the third movie in a trilogy would be perfect.

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

The last 1/4th of Dune Messiah is one of my favorite pieces of literature of all time

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 Dune Messiah was so friggin good

[@mercuryatamolos3687]

@@MindForgedManacle I was a little sad when he turned Alia into the villain of the third book. It made sense thematically, but I she was my favorite character of the second book so it was a little sad to see her turn

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@mercuryatamolos3687 yea that tore me up (I only just read the sequels about a month ago, lol), I hated it but I understood why 😩

[@davidwooden3878]

Honestly even the 5th and 6th are worth reading or listening to twice each Weird? Yes. Is that new here?

[@wargriffin5]

Vaush: "Dune is a master class in scifi worldbuilding." Scifi's Dune: "The guild ✋👇 does not take ☝🖐 your orders. 👉👌..." 🤨

[@override367]

The CGI Jedi Temple in the prequels lol, supposed to be like thousands of years old. We have ancient, well cared for places on earth (Japan has many) and they still don't look that perfect, nothing looks that perfect

[@OblivionWonderlust]

Netflix already has that option. You have to change it in audio and subtitles bit and change it from Dolby 5.1 to Stereo. I have no idea why streaming platforms default to Dolby 5.1

[@pixelcount350]

The only few times i agree with Vaush with anything in entertainment.

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

With what take you disagree?

[@pixelcount350]

@@RespectTheSourceMaterial Almost everything but this one.

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

@@pixelcount350 a specific one?

[@pixelcount350]

@@RespectTheSourceMaterial I'm not gonna go down a bunch of videos just to give you a comment in what i don't like. I'm telling you it's the majority.

[@aby110]

The Sardaukar throat chant

[@janbittner1465]

The Atreides bagpipes

[@petrfedor1851]

@@janbittner1465 In that moment I realised why stuff like that historicly existed!

[@Big_Dip1]

It was a little too polished in parts...the failure to show a space guild navigator was disappointing but since they're making a 2nd movie now, they can reveal them then...Jason Mamoa was a little too BRO-Y and comedic as Duncan, who is supposed to be a more gristled and gritty swordsman ...OTHERWISE it was good...they didn't overly explain things and let the imagery tell the story more which was smart

[@nightshade71986]

Funny thing about the SW prequels is a lot of the practical effect backgrounds were mistaken for being GC again probably because of the overly polished look to it even with the places there were supposed to look rusty and dusty.

[@SunburnCity]

part of this is the immense detail that was given in the source material to describing the social elements of characters. Everyone does fantasy nowadays, but rarely are the social mechanics and hierarchies depicted with any tack or sense of a consistent living world. Practically all characters in game of thrones talk as if they are from the 50s, at the earliest. Tolkien and PJs lord of the rings swings better in this regard as the dialogue is much closer to classical depictions (which though not realistic, are at least consistent with terminology, expressions, a sense of social hierarchy and most important a sense of time/place).

[@pogopenguin]

the funniest part is that the ornithopters are actually practical. the only thing that isnt is that they edited the helicopter wings off the top and made the wings move

[@dreamthief286]

There are two kinds of people I can't stand: Nazis and Fury Road haters

[@powahofthundah38]

I could barely hear the litany against fear in the theater, the goddamn LITANY AGAINST FEAR

[@theguyishere249]

I love dune so much.

[@carcinogenicoak3057]

YOOO We already got Dune and now Bradley Cooper is planning on making a Hyperion movie, is this the year of big ambitious SciFi movies?

[@jeremymr]

Hyperion! Yes! If done right, that is sure to blow people's minds.

[@carcinogenicoak3057]

@@jeremymr Hyperion is so good and a good movie adaptation would just give me so much dopamine

[@chriss790]

I think now that Marvel arc has finished and Star Wars flopped there's certainly a pretty big opening in big blockbuster, CG-heavy, grandiose movies. Problem I find with it is that studios may overestimate the story ability to catch on with the normies. Dune is serious, long and heavy. It won't be understood by as many people as studio (and Dune fans) might hope, so if any subsequent movie from now is underwhelming, it has far far less room for error before budget is cut.

[@carcinogenicoak3057]

@@chriss790 that is a big concern of mine, that franchises like Dune and Hyperion are like high Sci-fi in comparison to easier stuff to get into like Marvel, but Dune has already had a bunch of praise heaped onto it. It just makes me hopeful that Hyperion might finally be adapted

[@davidwooden3878]

We were a Warhammer stream channel.... Now we're a worm fucking DUNE CHANNEL!

[@algorithm_acolyte]

Vaush needs to take responsibility for the dogshit movie opinions his community has. Fury Road is a masterclass in visual storytelling.

[@MindForgedManacle]

Truuue. To be fair, I suspect it's a holdover of former anti-SJWs who came left but kept some dumb opinions about movies. Or it could be the so called "analysis" they saw from garbage channels like Cinema Sins. The "Its literally driving one way and then back" chat complaint is straight up something CS said.

[@pope9187]

@@MindForgedManacle Nah dude, that was me in chat and I’ll stand by it, Fury Road was terribly overrated. Hardy mumbling the whole time about redemption was just plain corny, the lore was basically non-existent or bad, and compared with other movies they’ve been in, Theron & Hardy’s roles were just kinda mediocre. The cope about “but it was a masterclass in visual storytelling” is exactly what people say about a film when they wanna say something nice, but the actual story/script is lacking. I mean, you could say it’s because I’m not really into action films (because they usually tend to over-rely on big explosion action sequence car chase, etc., in place of, instead of alongside a good story), but genuinely acting like Fury Road was some cinematic masterpiece and one of the greatest movies of all time is just laughable. I’d legit go on Vaush’s stream and defend this position.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@pope9187 Please give me that content. Don't blue ball me on this

[@chriss790]

@@pope9187 You don't watch this movie for the plot dawg. It has just enough of a story to make you want to see what comes next, which is perfectly enough for a film that is so effects centric.

[@zozzleberryfin1735]

The dragonfly spaceships made me happy and that's all I can remember.

[@eric7591]

Legit discussion about subtitles and dialogue volume. There's actually some good discussions about that on KZbin.

[@deepseadarew6012]

The Dune series takes place thousands of years and they still speak American English, but I understand what you mean. They don't hold your hand with why the future tech is the way it is, and the world feels real.

[@Fredric_Cedrich]

I’ll tell you something that was good world building… Alien Isolation. We learn more about our future in that universe than we do in aliens two and three. The game is immersive as fuck. You can believe that the station is real & that the people on it are real. 70s vision of the future just glorified into a game that can take up to 50 hours.

[@Jones-ke6bt]

As someone who read the books, I loved it. My significant other who hadn't, had no idea what was going on.

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

Cyperbunk is technically a Sci-Fi subgenre, but it's so distinct and specific that calling it "Sci-Fi" would be both meaningless and a huge disservice

[@Anvil35]

It should be 3 parts to this current Dune saga. There’s so much more content before and after the events of Dune there’s plenty of content to make into tv shows and movies, it can really take off as a franchise in the next few decades

[@MindForgedManacle]

Do you think the film makers would finish the story themselves (since Herbert wasn't able to) and ignore the books written by Frank's son? Having not read the son's books, it would be nice to see them attempt an original ending. General reaction seems to be that the path the son took was not really indicative of where the original novels were pointing.

[@manuelmialdea5127]

What you describe about 40K bring inspired from dune can also be traced to Isaac Asimov Empire series.

[@KhalbraeReal]

Star Wars was also supposed to be a Dune knockoff originally hence the desert planet in space starting setting.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Denis Villeneuve isn't a rising star. He's been one for some time now

[@jenniferbarrett555]

This should have been on your main channel. Absolute banger.

[@cogito919]

Vaush's take on the culture in Dune is interesting to me because I felt like the 1984 Dune movie, with all of its flaws, felt more like people whom I could readily believe live in the year 10191 compared to the 2020 Dune movie, which felt more like people from 2020 thrown into the future. That might be because David Lynch's take on the movie, set design, and characters was meant to be strange and unrelatable to people from the 20th century, whereas Denis Villenue's take is meant to appear attractive to our 21st century sensibilities. Villenue's movie is definitely the better adaptation, but I appreciate how avant-garde Lynch's movie was.