Why Lair of Darkness Flopped

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[@mo-hunnit9184]

It because the deck has a concept that is good going second but liliths is a going first card. It can’t swarm the field or control the game. It doesn’t know what it wants to be.

[@zachcondel7116]

mo-hunnit it’s also a lot of monster hate when sky strikers exist, which really don’t mind not having monsters on board.

[@cuttlefish6839]

mo-hunnit I don't think it has an identity problem it has a not enough cards problem. Like we got what 4 new cards for basically a new strategy. Having going first and going second options is always good for versatility, idk how that causes an identity problem lol

[@agagg5554]

yeah they reprinted so many pointless cards instead of making new cards for the strategie :(

[@kylianos3907]

mo-hunnit You make a really interesting point. I hadn't thought about it like that.

[@TammoHP]

yeah the deck it better going second because its all about breaking boards. but in this ygo age board have sometimes up to 4/5 negates so its essentially impossible. but its great breaking tier 2 or lower tier 1 boards.

[@naidhruvananthiyer5723]

Poll: Zombie Horde or Lair of Darkness. Like for Lair of Darkness Comment for Zombie Horde

[@TallerVision]

Rip

[@poopeater4932]

Zombies

[@phantomnite]

Zombie horde.

[@austingraham5494]

Zombies 🧟‍♀️ are infinitely better

[@technoboop1890]

horde

[@Dizek]

the deck is GOOD, but not good enough, the current meta is not kind to what this deck is attempting, maybe it will become a sleeper deck until the time is right

[@TidleFrat]

Is there a better structure deck for the meta?

[@kacpergarbiec4174]

Ben Sangwich The Dino structure deck is very good. Very consistant and powerful.

[@TidleFrat]

@@kacpergarbiec4174 Well fuck, shows me I gotta do my research a little more carefully. Thanks man, I'ma try to start a dino deck now

[@kacpergarbiec4174]

Ben Sangwich I forgot the exact name of it, but watch out because i think that there may be two different dinosour structure decks. The good one is the one with Ultimate Conductor Tyranno (Great boss monster). I'm suprised that there's people who haven't heard of it. Make sure to watch some deck profiles.

[@patriousthefallenknight3185]

it steals my cards by making my toons dark type and the other guy keeps tributing them!

[@BoBnfishy]

I think they'll be like fire kings. They just don't have enough cards in the archetype to be consistent, and they'll get some support a couple years down the line that will be a couple years late

[@jonnymaldonado5974]

Archetype? They aren't even an archetype to make things worse. Just a clump of monsters who kiiiiiiinda wanna have a strategy, but because they aren't directly related tend to lack consistency in the end.

[@MyETProductions]

Pretty much every older archetype has gotten support that is useless at this timing. Gravekeepers, karakuri, fire fist, armed dragon and pretty much every older deck they support now

[@danielramsey6141]

@@jonnymaldonado5974 its more like the Dark Decks of past Yugioh. Mainly from the GX era onwards if you think about it.

[@Lab-666]

In 2022 I play a lair virus deck in master duel and it makes people surrender after not being able to draw or do anything👌

[@nothingface5919]

@@Lab-666 Yep they went from zero to... Rogue deck. But hey they can win and are fun as hell so ill take it.

[@lostinaseaofdreams]

Lair would probably be really good if it searched Lilith with a similar effect to trickstar lightstage.

[@autobotstarscream765]

That sounds about right, then you would have a searchable searcher since both Ahriman and Terraforming search Lair.

[@DarkestX]

Or have diabolos be able to search it when he is special summoned

[@bingus_factory]

layer of darkness

[@wildfirerevenge5153]

I love my Lair of Darkness build. I have been messing around with ratios and some cards I cut out of the original build trying to find the best one that works for me personally. My brothers hate it and it is one of my main decks right now! My friends are so annoyed with the fact that Lilith in conjunction with Lair can bypass 90% of monsters being her non-targeting Quick Effect. I even went to the lengths of writing an Introduction to Lair of Darkness (in-depth rulings, combos and strategies) and even though my build and ratios changed from the original time I wrote it I still left it as it is and only edited to add more in to make other Lair players aware of such (I joined a Judge Lounge to learn everything I could about the deck before facing my brothers with it). Being able to tribute for cost isn't something to just brush aside. Sure, it isn't one of the top meta decks and sure it isn't tier 0...but its still a great deck in my opinion.

[@RC000000000]

WildfireRevenge I adore my lair deck too ♡

[@leafeonfusion7792]

I put my Earthbound Immortal Uru and an Orbital Hydralander in my layer of darkness virus deck. I’m still waiting for in person locals to test how it deals with any disruptions. It passed the draw test so I don’t have any bricks so far.

[@pickyphysicsstudent201]

Can't tell you how many times i saw people on YGOPRO tribute Lilith to set a Back to the Front Lines and then use it to revive Lilith.

[@pickyphysicsstudent201]

To confuse the opponent, obviously.

[@dmi5316]

Well, if you have diabolos in hand or grave might be worth

[@SakuraAvalon]

Mind games.

[@PokemonTrainerChris303]

Picky Psychology Student Athena is awesome

[@stylesheetra9411]

Imo they just missclicked

[@koraxtu5989]

I've tried many variations of Lair strategies in YGOPro. From pure, to sky strikers, to infernoid, and even lair altergeists. I t's true that having multiple copies Lair is a straight up scoop but despite it's faults, I love it because I prefer breaking boards to making boards. The version I've played with the most success is the altergeist version. I've have never bricked with it. Each hand is usuable, I haven't bricked yet. But lair does have it's weakness and it'll need more consistency boosting cards before it even becomes a rouge strategy. I still love it.

[@ljdoff]

I wouldn't say it flopped, but it was a little bit overhyped instead.

[@ChazWalser]

Still a good deck, just not as op as people thought it would be. Pros: +Deck makes it easier to get the boss monster out on the field +Field Spell can make you tribute one of your opponent’s monsters with a card effect +Boss monster can’t be Kaiju’d and is immune to Magic, Trap, and Monster effects that target it +5 Virus Cards will make it difficult for your opponent to handle +Caius the Mega Monarch is in the Deck(Arguably one of the strongest Mega Monarchs) +Deck has a lot of overwhelming power +Token monsters make it easier to summon the Deck’s strongest monsters Cons: -Deck heavily relies on Field Spell -Some card effects can negate Boss monster’s special summoning ability -Opponents can take advantage of tokens summoned to his/her side -Boss monster is NOT immune to card effects that target all monsters on the field -Overwhelming power requires a cost which is sometimes not a good thing

[@tylerwylde4100]

I love my lair deck and I know it's super casual. I'm just glad we have Malice now. ❤

[@furiousfemmeyazeth3362]

I just hope the new Zombie Structure Deck won't flop. So far I do really like the cards they revealed.

[@Colbrax]

Rei of the Amaryllis only the red-eyes zombie retrain is left to be revealed in effect, hopefully it's generic dark support or a broken zombie support

[@eririspencersawamura5291]

It's going to end up as more fodder for Shiranui Omega spam.

[@furiousfemmeyazeth3362]

Which isn't necessarily bad though I do feel like the Zombies need something else (or in addition) to their strategy than that. I can only hope that upcoming Zombie support can or may. Maybe not form this structure deck but in the 'near future'.

[@bobthebuilder7620]

The other boss zombie is pretty good though and I like it. It banish once per a turn (Quick) , negate once per a turn (Quick), and special summon it self during either players stand by lol. I like I like!!!!

[@furiousfemmeyazeth3362]

You Are Beautiful Drochsuile is an awesome Boss Monster that does some work. I do like Banshee, helps make Zombie World more viable. I guess it's mostly just about I wish they will also make more cards to sustain the Zombie engine. Like I do like Shinobi Necro which is a nice one of for combo extending.

[@ARMRStudios]

As a casual player this deck is fun as hell! Specially with cards like Dark Spiritual Art - Greed, and Share the Pain

[@TammoHP]

lair of darkness should have another simple effect that makea an emidiate impact on the board. so either having something like: "when activated set a normal virus trap card feom your deck" so reinforcing the virus strategy or a protection effect: "if this card would be destroyed you can tribute a monster instead" so the opponent has to bait out a tribute before he can destroy it. lair of darkness just needs something to make it good on its own. so if you draw 3x lair and 2x terra forming you still feel like you can do something. eg. searching a virus for every activation.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Yes. Lair of Darkness. Lair of Darkness. lair of Darkness. terraforming. Metaverse.

[@KRHeroark]

I'm glad you made this bc I had some annoying photon/galaxy player on ygopro that got salty when I'd tribute his monsters. He kept saying this deck was OP even though it's never been meta relevant at all. Feels good to have my point proven.

[@TheMalcomrj]

Heroark for casual players any deck that has a little consistence is OP, more if the casual player uses a brick deck likek photon/galaxy

[@oxcare5]

Was one of those players named Ox V?

[@WhoStoleMyNachos]

ah. met this guy. he truly was very annoying. board wiped him 3 times with triverr and killed him.

[@christiansalas9366]

I play pure Lair and basically focus on summoning Vanitys Fiend for game.

[@aposeastwood200]

lol

[@krenze1164]

Do you want to say there are other winning conditions? Just kidding.

[@Hydranox]

That’s so sad lmao

[@jaafarmhasan8713]

whats your build?

[@jonnymaldonado5974]

That strat is lazy and wack as hell. Book of Moon outs that to name one.

[@drearydoll6305]

Look at you slowly going back to the full quality contain I subbed for. Good work, I hope you ll keep going like that. :D

[@MonsterNo.0]

It's a good engine to throw into different decks I feel.

[@LyonelGhecko]

Shelby Lawhorn if you make the lair monsters the only monsters in a paleo deck with monster gate and reasoning it feels like a grass deck again

[@Yumil_fab]

Shame, I really liked lair of infernoids. It felt really fun to pick up infernoids again after a few years and see how this card changed the strategy. Ah well, it's still more than good enough for some casual fun, so it's not a waste.

[@Marcusjnmc]

it's a decent deck, it's just a matter of understanding it, you want to play as few copies of lair as possible so that infernoid's consistency isn't negatively effected, people got too focused on the opposite and playing loads of lair & lair searchers, when really they should of only been teching 'maybe' 2 lair to give the deck an additional wincon that could sometimes come up but won't actually make the deck worse by lowering consistency

[@superzenmodeman]

Broadbull, Enabler of Uncounted Combos My lair infernoid build with 3 lair 3 ahrima and 1 terraforming has been working out for me. It does lower consistency a bit but it’s whether or not you’re willing to give that up for even more power. So far, most of my hands have been playable so the consistency drop hasn’t been huge, and the power lair enables is quite fantastic, but I probably will drop the terraforming. Drawing lair and ahrima together can be solid as a second lair in case it’s disrupted while at other times enabling removal with ahrima (pretty nice when I had to deal with a vanity’s fiend game 2 against monarchs) but terraforming is probably not worth the extra way to lair as it doesn’t do anything else.

[@Al-tanin]

superzenmodeman do you have a deck list? I have one myself which also runs 3x 3x but i tend to brick sometimes. I'm curious about yours

[@Marcusjnmc]

I'd still consider 2 lair 3 ahrima in that case, infernoids are already a powerful deck so lair really is more suplementary, some games you would of won without lair anyway because the infernoids get going, so lair isn't improving your chance to win in those cases, just making it happen differently, ideally you noticeably lower consistency as little as possible for the boost in power you get from lair so that it isn't losing you games you might have won otherwise.

[@superzenmodeman]

Broadbull, Enabler of Uncounted Combos 3 ahrima 2 lair makes sense as well, though I’d prefer to keep the 3-3 for now as it does work pretty well with lilith. I main 1 lilith (impermanence is my other trap; so versatile) and side 2 more for certain matchups I’d prefer to go first, such as boarder anti-meta decks where imagination is fairly useless. Also have 1 diabolos mained which would be sided out in some matchups but is nice to have for more control oriented decks. I don’t really think there’s one particular card I desperately need over the “6th lair.” It is true a lot of the times infernoids win without lair. But what else would you suggest to boost the consistency of infernoids if I were to reduce the lairs? I already do run one for one, reasoning, monster gate (which is much more useful with lair), foolish burial, triple vanishment. You don’t usually want to open too many infernoids that aren’t decatron in your opening hand so raising the infernoid count wouldn’t bolster the consistency that much. Only other cards I could think of are raidens or other mill monsters, which can be nice but involve luck mills a bit. My non-lair build uses 3 raiden and 3 charge; that build has been working fairly well for me as well but I do much prefer the power the lair build provides.

[@omega5040]

I love the deck. It's fun to pull apart boards and they can't negate me. I made my deck to not rely on the field spell, like a good darklord player that learned to play out of brick hands. I use all 3 effects of Lair, using various tribute mechanics on my cards as well as theirs, take advantage that all monsters are dark on the field, and even the tokens are useful targets as well as link material. Just wished it didn't give my opponent tokens. That said the deck is a tad slow and it struggles with decks that spam the field, too many targets like Gouki U monster formation.

[@nobleknightofthecardtable8024]

I recently bought this structure deck again to give to my cousin for their birthday and recently got me thinking what the hell happened to the field spell as well. I wanted to use it with the new Demise/Ruin support but it doesn't work with ritual summoning which really sucks.

[@NeedingNewName]

i really like playing this engine with the felgrand engine

[@alyssatruman4895]

I won my locals two weeks ago with a Darklord deck running one Lair, One Diabolos, and three Ahrima. Surprising my opponent with a Lair and then tributing their monster to search a Darklord worked very well. I know this is only locals but I managed to beat Spyrals, Altergeist, ABC, and Danger

[@DouglasKeyve]

decklist ?

[@kacpergarbiec4174]

Alyssa Truman Teach me!!! I just keep getting really bad hands, i just cant make consistant enough deck.

[@tristanmoehl5544]

I had that same idea when they got announced! It is really nice bc aside from banishment theres not another good way to search them

[@alyssatruman4895]

3x Ixchel, Superbia, Nasten, Ahrima, Banishment, Contact, Trade-in, Allure, and Called by the grave. 2x Kristya, Rebellion, and Enchantment. 1 of Zerato, Morningstar, Tezcatlipoca, Darkest Diabolos, Lair of Darkness, Monster Reborn, and Darklord Enchantment.

[@Marcusjnmc]

huh, interesting, at worst it's a 1 for 1 to help bricks and at best it's an offensive tribute that searches a darklord

[@MiyaoMeow588]

Because it makes for a better engine than a standalone deck.

[@MrChillaxin2010]

I feel like a strategy like this is going to have a time to shine in the future.

[@gearhead6042]

I've been playing this deck since it came out and continued to do so for years. The pieces for a very powerful rogue option is there and there was that short amount of time in 2018 where Armageddon Knight and Metaverse were both at 3 which allowed LoD to turbo into a situation where you could set up a goddamn minefield of tribute effects, the field spell, at least 1 Diabolos on board, and Lilith in one turn while using Melody of Awakening Dragon and maybe Levanieer as a one of for another MoAD target. Armageddon Knight getting hit to 1 didn't hurt much and Metaverse at 2 was the perfect balance point. But the moment Metaverse got hit to 1 because of Mystic Mine the deck's consistency fell apart and it went from a control deck that can do well going first and second with a unique way of getting around protection to a mess of a bunch of cards that are going first and going second cards that clash with each other. Tour Guide getting bumped up to semi-limited gives me hope because she's the ultimate searcher for Lilith but either Lair needs Metaverse at, at least 2 or some way to grab the field spell from the grave. That's what my 2 years of playing this deck have taught me. It's the most fun deck next to traptrix and has the best aesthetics.

[@skeletonwar4445]

"Most fun deck next to Traptrix" This is why you were disowned.

[@gearhead6042]

@@skeletonwar4445 I didn't choose the sadist life, the sadist life chose me.

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@gearhead6042 Don't you mean Masochist?

[@gearhead6042]

@@skeletonwar4445 Nope.

[@BlueBloodPenn]

You really only need a searcher for Lilith for it to be a decent strategy. With terraforming your usually always going to see Lair but as you say its useless on its own, if there was a dependable way to get to Lilith then it would probably see some play.

[@TheMalcomrj]

BlueBloodPenn tour guide and scar

[@q345ify]

tour guide negates its effect, scarm gets it on end phase so they really don't count

[@BlueBloodPenn]

TheMalcomrj Tour Guide is at one and it negates the effect so that doesn't help. Scarm is in the end phase so too slow.

[@TheMalcomrj]

If you tribute lilith with her own effect tour guide's negation doesnt affects her anymore, then you search back to the front to use in the next turn. But yeah tour guide is at one

[@TheMalcomrj]

And scarm counts, but it sucks at searching her

[@jogabonito1848]

I played lair frogs for a few weeks and when i won, i mostly did despite playing the engine rather than because of it.

[@williamlucas3231]

jogabonito1848 what did the build consist of? Trying to play frogs myself

[@LyonelGhecko]

The way to run it is instead of frogs in a paleo build not with

[@ullinnofthesouth10]

Fun fact you can use lair of darkness's tribute effect multiple times per turn if you have multiple copies because it's a SOFT once per turn. It doesn't make a huge difference but it's something to consider.

[@HarioGu]

Wow thats badass. Didnt realize this

[@SuperYoshi1213]

I've come up with my own variation of this deck that does not rely on Lilith or the field spell, it uses those as secondary options. It's main focus is pumping Diabolos to the field for massive board presence and having multiple ways to bring it back if it dies. With an extra deck with various options to get out of sticky situations or create more of an overwhelming board. I've had a lot of success with it in the local group I play against. My build only has 1 Lilith in it, and if I need it I can search it.

[@noahtackett6264]

Honestly, I have a lair of darkness virus deck online, with 3 ahrima, 3 Lilith, Darkest Diabolos, and a bunch of the viruses (and doom virus dragon and I threw in a Mirror Force Dragon since I'm running Critias anyway), and a Malefic Stardust to protect Lair of Darkness, and it was disgustingly good. If you want I'll post a deck list when I get to it because it was fun and it makes you feel gross at the same time. And I tribute a lot of monsters during the opponent's turn and clog up their field as much as possible, so it makes it better, and using Darkest Diabolos as a recurring monster for Eradicator Epidemic or Deck Devastation Viruses, making them effectively free to use. Lilith to search my traps, Ahrima to either search lair or search another Darkest Diabolos or Malefic Stardust or another high ATK monster I run in that deck. It works surprisingly well and is my most consistent deck out of all of them, but I only have it online. Also, it's way better than my main irl deck which I'm still perfecting but it's getting there. Then again I find Dark Worlds with Forced Requisition to be more fun because of all the discards and it feels less disgustingly satisfying to use, just funny when you pull it off. Raviel can be splashed into Dark Worlds too for more shenanigans (not saying it's a good idea but it's fun and easier to pull off with all the ss in Dark Worlds

[@Restrictted]

Lair of Darkness was meant for "DDD/Dark World" and "Decode Talker".

[@evilflame01]

playing it, i mainly focused on the virus trap cards, and used lilith to get them on the board with the occasional rank 8's

[@stanley1698]

I thought the Virus Traps were supposed to make up for the lack of impactful monsters (except Diabolos, he's pretty good).

[@isidoreaerys8745]

This is ABSOLUTELY on pointe. I wish I had looked this up sooner. After getting absolutely bodied by this deck 2 or 3 times one weekend on master duel I became enamored with this archetype. But after spending almost 10k gems and still only having TWO Copies of Lilith, something wasn’t adding up. These cards don’t gel with one another. The deck requires skill drain yet suffers from it. The field spell makes gozen match redundant. And oh my god I have 1 L of Darkness live. And two in my hand. It must have just been that those 3 duels were all just extremely lucky openings for the Lair of Darkness player. But like you explain. In theory it has major appeal as a game mechanic. Basically giving you a kaiju once per turn. BUT I DID THIS ON MY ACCOUNT WITH MY ROYAL RARE PRISMATIC FINISH Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring ACCOUNT. HALP.

[@yoitsgunattack]

the thing I found with the lair of darkness deck-deck is its just always "meh" even when you get all the cards together its like "cool a trap..." "cool sac one draw one" "cool duke shade is a beater" I mean most the time it feels like my extreme gimmick deck of montage dragon yubel (do a yubel video please) has better and bigger "wtf" moments of sacrificing 3 yubels to get a 9000+ montage and smash into a little thing or one shot. or to counter like a cyber dragon power bond one shot by call of the haunted yubel back from the grave in the attack step were they cant cancel the attack and the is just this funny moment were they just go "... do i have to click it... i dont wanna :

[@DOESITMATTER7734]

I still run the deck. It’s pretty good these days

[@shamanfire423]

I wanna see a video of how the elementalsabers flopped too

[@devorator724]

Lilith would be so much better, if we either had better tribute traps, or you could choose yourself what to set. Eradicator to 3 would make it meta. The field spell should Summon tokens instantly, not in end phase.

[@Restrictted]

Devorator72 there's a card in the structure deck that allows you to copy the effects of a trap card in the graveyard. You can also use Jar of avarice to shuffle it back into the deck.

[@Marcusjnmc]

eradicator to 3 wouldn't make it meta, because you go 1st so have to tribute lilith assuming you even drew lilith to get out eradicator & then you need lair sitting where the op can remove it or Another monster that you somehow got to the field which adds a 3rd element of brick there, & then if that doesn't work out you've just blown all your resources and have no recovery, the whole thing just fudamentally doesn't work built that way

[@Marcusjnmc]

the cards are individually strong so good if you find the Right deck for them, together they're trash

[@omega5040]

ballista squad

[@coolmasterx5707]

trap of darkness.

[@5ShadesGaming]

It’s working fine for me. All you gotta do is play the fang of critias and crush card/ mirror force dragon

[@dlonewolf69]

Same here except I play Mirror Force and Destruction Dragon. Popping cards is very handy for the beaters and any continuous spell/trap cards

[@DarkState2]

I picked up 3 LoD structure decks and I bought darklords from Amazon for casual play and I love playing this mixed deck. I like the situations were I have number 77 out with lair of darkness and Lilith with back row. Me and my friends don't focus on the meta whatsoever, we just play decks we like to have fun and Lair of Darklords or whatever you want to call it is my favorite deck atm and I regret nothing.

[@SydneySutterKolinkBattler]

In hindsight, it seems like the best way to increase Lair of Darkness's viability is giving it its own Balelynx, which is to say a Link Monster who can search Lair of Darkness in some way. In addition, also increase the number of ways to get to your monsters who wanna use it. However, I'm not sure how you'd balance that so it doesn't becomes too overwhelming and frankly I dunno that I wanna see Konami try it, as much as I like the strategy.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Yea it needs a link monster. And a way to wipe the opponents tokens. Otherwise it’s hard to gain any advantage

[@jamesgutro4200]

I do love this deck its not super viable but I just enjoy playing it. Tbh I actually like to see more than one lair in hand because your opponents most likely going to either twister it or go into Phoenix to get rid of it immediately. Everyone knows to get rid of the field asap so it's good having more than 1 in hand

[@ARMRStudios]

I still LOVE this card and I still have my pure Lair of Darkness deck. Fun in casual play :)

[@a1rg3ar31]

If Dark Mummy ever got printed they would definitely run this card.

[@ebolahh_same8610]

*its kinda fun now with triple eradicator* 😶 KINDA

[@antischtick3502]

Infernoids: Allow me to introduce myself

[@gevehsv2481]

Hell yeah

[@willnack5315]

We could always stick this card in a Predaplant or a Starving Venom deck, those decks need dark monsters and it would make using super poly a lot easier! Also, since the deck was mainly meant to support the virus cards, maybe what it needs is some extra virus cards to work with!

[@-DustinBorn-]

But you know what's hilarious? When you play Lair against the Gouki Extra Link and then use Enemy Controller to tribute Tri-Gate Wizard to take their Firewall...

[@SoggyWaffles.]

Dustin Born Wouldn't firewall still be co-linked without the trigate

[@-DustinBorn-]

Soggy Waffles If they haven't used the bounce then it sucks but if they did, then you're fine. You could Gameciel beforehand.

[@obi-wankenobi8237]

Dustin Born That is the so incosistent lmao. They would bounce immediately when they see lair, also tri-gate to banish lair and render enemy controller unusable? Adding gamaciel makes it even more inconsistent. Even if you did somehow resolve it (???), still a -1. Don't try this at home, kids.

[@-DustinBorn-]

Obi-Wan Kenobi they cannot banish Lair on my turn

[@obi-wankenobi8237]

Dustin Born Meant it as (Quick effect) negate, then banish.

[@Smeik2901]

Reading the comments i stumbled upon a decent amount of people mentioning a mix between Lair and Darklords. Good to see that there are still people out there, that appreciate this archetype as much as i do

[@dangaruga]

I've incorporated: Kaijus, viruses and things like Lilith, both Diabolos monsters and cards to get information of the opponent's hand etc and, I found that works for me personally. I got frustrated because, I was excited for this and couldn't get it to work at first. But, I'm really enjoying my current build

[@Awedacious]

Thoughts on "Lair of Monarch" decks

[@Teebs1996]

Also; I love Lilith as a design. She made the deck worth buying IMO. She's so fun. She basically turns Artifact Sanctum into a 4,5,6 of and other real good traps like D-Barrier into the same. But it's a bummer how they were so cognizant to make its effect quick but the traps it searches can't be activated the same turn. I think it'd be neat that if she was on the field alongside Lair, those traps would be able to be activated in the same turn. Still love Lilith, and Diabolos is cool too. I love Lilith in Chain Burn.

[@romkin1197]

I just run Lilith with Critias, makes Critias so much easier to play. Now just need a way to search the Legendary Dragon cards...

[@luminous3558]

These cards will just wait till the next archetype with tribute quick effs/busted normal trap shows up.

[@sdsd1801]

No-one even remembers Duke Shade, the Sinister Shadow Lord

[@bobjankins5456]

I love these types of vids about the history of cards and how people analyze the meta and what type of cards will affect the meta. (Sorry for the run-on sentence)

[@kolegatv237]

I mixed the deck with a few structure and starter decks and it's working surprisingly great...

[@horizon4895]

The only deck that I liked running Lair of Darkness engine is Darklords, because Ahrima is a searcher for essentially all the Darklords you want to run, Diabolos is an Allure and Trade-In target - cards commonly run in Darklords - and special summons itself from the hand or grave when Lilith, Ahrima or a Darklord is Tributed, and Lilith searches all the Darklord trap cards on top of Full Force and Epidemic Virus which really synergize with the deck. Heck, honestly, you can run the Lair of Darkness field spell at 1 in that strategy and be completely okay, because Darklords' draw power is through the roof, and Ahrima searches it if you happen to have 2 Ahrimas stuck in your hand. In every other strategy - including OCG Infernoids with triple Grass - I found the engine and especially the field spell super underwhelming.

[@FeanixFlamage]

there's a normal trap in cybernetic horizon that pairs really nicely with lair of darkness, it's called ballista squad if i'm not mistaken. you tribute a monster, target a card the opponent controls, and destroy it. using lair of darkness, you can basically get rid of two of the opponent's cards for one of yours. i don't expect it to be this huge, game changing card for the deck, but it's a nice bit of simple removal the deck had been lacking, since most other traps they ran were either virus cards, traps for other unrelated themes like void madness in lair infernoids, or generic traps like torrential tribute, artifact sanctum, waking the dragon, etc that didn't really make use of lair of darkness as a card. i think ultimately that's the main issue with lair of darkness as it's own deck. the original structure deck it was based on (it was an ocg exclusive along with the original counter fairy structure deck, btw. there's your random fun fact of the day, lol) was literally all about using eradicator, deck devastation, and crush card virus and the rest of the deck was random dark monsters with weird gimmicks based on this weird sort of shadow fog body aesthetic with the og diabolos as a "boss" monster. the virus traps are all just too situational, and there isn't a single one that's actually good against enough decks, except maybe eradicator which is unfortunately limited in the tcg, and running too many leads to even more brick hands. if they had a trap that let you tribute a monster, add or summon say, lillith or ahrima from the deck, and then you got an additional bonus if you tributed an opponent's monster, or even just two or three traps that worked in line with that that directly supported the three monsters while also having synergy with lair of darkness itself, i think it could be a viable deck by itself. alternatively, they could axe the "focus" on normal traps and instead release more dark monsters that tribute for stuff to more effectively utilize lair of darkness. in theory there's actually a LOT of really good cards that work with lair, but a lot of them just have this awkward feeling to them and it's REALLY hard to actually get a good ratio, and the deck is both way too inconsistent and way too susceptible to basic disruption effects, it's really hard to actually build and play the deck effectively. would be nice to see a special set every so often that just gives support cards to old structure deck themes. here's some geargia support, how about a new lightsworn, and don't forget your ancient gear and dinosaur cards! (not that all of those actually need support, but i imagine a lot of people would love to pick up and play, for example, geargias again if they gave the deck a boost)

[@CaptainRed1000]

You say it flopped, but I cannot go a single session without facing someone who plays it. Infernoid, Viruses, Paleozoics to name a few.

[@obi-wankenobi8237]

CaptainRed1000 >Online play is not a valid argument. Go to regionals or higher where people actually play good decks (rogue included) and see that it flopped.

[@Slyrider777]

Also a lair deck topped at the Montreal regionals

[@jacobgets69s]

Ive had some fun with this deck using gozen match and battle of the elements to automatically shut down any deck thats not already dark lol, but its definitely not competitive.

[@goldenpersonwhoexists8834]

Casual Here, this scenario happened in a duel and I didn't know how to resolve it so I just let it happen: Let's say your opponent has Black Wing Full Armor Master. Unaffected by cards' effects. I get Lair of Darkness out and normal summon Ahrima. I want to tribute Full Armor as a cost for the effect. Would Lair of Darkness' effect to OPT be able to tribute an opponent's monster be treated as affecting Full Armor, and due to full armor's effect would stop me from tributing it with Ahrima's cost?

[@admontblanc]

Correct ratio is, 3 Lair, 3 Ahrima, ifyou draw both, Ahrima has the field effect to draw, thus running Terraforming is mostly a waste even if it makes you see the field more often it also increases the brick potential of the deck.

[@sexpistolmaniaco]

Lilith+artifact sanctum/dimensional barrier, there you go

[@DarkestX]

Basically it kind of has one for all syndrome since back then the deck wasnt all that strong but now since they have made new dark cards its now stronger

[@theogrobbythedragon]

Personally, I think that if the cards had some form of built in protection, effect negation, or resurrection, they'd be a lot better. I think the main problem is its lack of swarming ability, the hard opt and no inherent pluses.

[@robhad1770]

I think an easy way to make this card better would have been to make it so that you can search a dark monster from your deck upon activation. That makes the card a combo starter, since it would no longer be a “blank” card and would instead be an instead +1 that helps you to continue your strategy. It would solve the problem of having the field spell and not the monsters to make use of it, giving a huge consistency boost.

[@2pointSummer]

I kinda enjoy messing around with the Lair of Darkness in Ogdoadic decks

[@andrewensley1386]

Lair of darkness with lady of lament and cannon soldier. Add a tuning gum and it's synchro game over!

[@MrDueler-rf8om]

I play lair and absolutely love it but the only thing that make it better is make the endphase optional and the effect make more than once per turn

[@xbotscythe]

rip lair

[@ChazBlanks]

I like this structure deck, but i had to split the deck up once I realized it doesn't work with anything.

[@BatmannotBruceWayne1]

Still playing lair variants today and I’ve completely moved past Lilith and the virus cards. Lilith is a great card to have on the field, but traps are both too slow, and viruses are cringe. I’ve moved towards pairing Ahrima and Diabolos into a Bystial control deck that leans into synchros with assault synchron and hop ear squadron. It’s pretty bricky, and often has trouble against disruption, but it plays on both turns, and actually makes use of the tokens through hop ear squadron to synchro on their turn. Quick plays such as Stand-in and Enemy Controller are also hype cards. This deck solves the major problem of lair for me in that you either have no game without the field spell, or you’re playing a jank auroradon halq combo if you open tour guide that loses if you don’t

[@tristanmoehl5544]

The new cards contradict each other; lilith feels like the odd one out of the rest of the deck, which is a shame because they're all good, but they're all generic. Maybe konami will notice later and make more cards to support this play style in the future

[@Agreel]

Tristan Moehl Well, they already released a normal trap in CYHO (probably) designed with Lair in mind, Ballista Squad

[@tristanmoehl5544]

tim5fl true, but unfortunately we won't know when we'll actually get it :(

[@axelkusanagi4139]

I mixed it with Critias, and when I actually draw the fang of critias, it goes fairly well. Mirror force dragon offers some protection, tyrant wing dragon equipped to diabolos can be dangerous, and destruction dragon can get rid of tricky backrow or frontrow while virus dragon has the full, un-errated crush card virus effect. I like using metaverse in case I draw lillith and not ahrima or the lair, and dark spirit art-greed is useful for today's resource-burning meta. If you know they have no spells, or they use their whole hand the first turn, you get to proc effects and draw two cards. Tributing is also non-targeting removal where you get to choose the target. It can be really annoying to have your best monsters just turned into tokens to be sacrificed later.

[@davidmiller4416]

The new Balista Squad trap card works really well with Lair since you can tribute an opponets monster for cost and then blow up a card. So for example with the Knightmare lock if you activate Squad you can tribute Phoenix then target Cerberus or another part and destroy it.

[@darksiders18]

It's not that bad because I mix Lair of Darkness with The Fang Of Critas. The overall deck mechanics improved by blowing up my opponent field, but also their hand.

[@autobotstarscream765]

So a full Virus Deck? :3

[@chucklesdeclown8819]

your right dzeff, but i could also see that as a half decent card in a mirror match if there are certain card perimeters, like for example you can use d/d/d oblivion king abyss ragnarok to tribute the other players Siegfried and then pop one of their other negations in the d/d/d mirror match(at least, that's one interactions I've noticed). i think the card is just really specific and the archetype needs more support in order for it to make more sense.

[@rachityadav6404]

Lair is amazing for infernoids. You seem to not have played the deck much. Tributing ur opponents monsters to negate monster effects and spells/traps or disrupting their GY plays while tributing their monsters is amazing especially as a rogue deck in this format

[@The_Nerd_King]

If lair of darkness protected its self from destruction by tributing a dark monster, if it allowed you to tribute summon using your opponents monsters, and if the tokens were summoned to only your side of the field, it probably would've seen more play.

[@The_Nerd_King]

@@ultraatari9298 😂 exactly, make everything that can use the field spell teir -4! Make the spell see so much play that it gets limited!👍

[@BramLastname]

I liked to play Lair of Darkness in Predaplants and Abhyss Because they like to tribute monsters And predaplants also have a lot of Super Poly options.

[@niero4201]

I run Lair of Darkness - Predaplants I only run a single copy of Diablo and feed it into the grave with Red-Eyes fusion cause I'm a scumbag. With a bit of I basically abuse Anaconda to summon Dragoons, the 3 Dark Monster Predap, and some others. As well as some cards that cause level 1 tokens on my field (as well as predaplants level modulation) to constantly revive linkuribohs to keep reviving Diablo.

[@BramLastname]

@@niero4201 while that's an interesting strategy, That's not how I like to play.

[@rickmarr4478]

They are great for Darklord Decks tho. I also don't play meta, just good old fun.

[@Hexie094]

i feel like with police patrol from the underworld lair becomes a fun rogue deck that i personally enjoy playing. They combo nicely and if you run enough discarding and burial effects (eg Dragon Shrine) the deck can be somewhat consistent

[@vro1313]

Lmao I know a friend who reveals 2x mirrorforce and 1x shrub serpent all the time

[@eliasontiveros4297]

I love Lair to death, but it's missing *something* that's keeping it from reaching its full potential. Sure, Infernoids are nice and make good use out of the field spell, but Lair needs something that breaks the mechanic and makes the deck absolutely ridiculous. Tributing an opponent's monster for Lilith or a Virus is cheeky, but not nearly as ridiculous as recycling Engage to search whatever you want, or the spamability of Goukis to accrue advantage and extra link turn 1.

[@cfvanguard9034]

This deck flopped really badly but because of ETERNITY CODE I think this deck will make a comeback as something like a rogue deck but not as powerful as like salamangreat

[@BackMarker20]

It’s still a very fun deck to play that stomps on most casual decks. I’m hoping Police Patrol of the Underworld gets imported to the TCG soon though

[@michaeltsi5746]

I'm in love with this strategy and I concur that it is risky as hell but it is also fun as hell☺

[@michaeltsi5746]

If it wasn't once per turn it would be completely broken lets be honsest

[@GabyyRose]

When you go into your first local ever, get stomped by this deck twice in a row, hear the deck owners saying their own deck is shit and seeing the internet shitting on it... I feel very saddened :'(

[@ragsii]

Mixed with Darklords this deck is pretty fun

[@DarkState2]

Lord Asmods very much so, it's my favorite deck atm

[@DarkState2]

I should say I am a casual player and I pretty much only play with friends but it works for me

[@gavinoconnor9159]

Danger! Cards are so much better

[@marleyjones870]

SattelerKnight can use it rather well cuz it changes all monsters to dark so the rank 5 diamond can stop monster effects more than ones per turn. If using this strategy I would say only running it as 1 or 2 of and the monster that surchs it at 3 but this is the only way I've gotten it to work

[@DeriusPerson]

I won a locals with Lair Infernoids. You don’t use Lilith or Wulf just tech enemy controller and 2 metaverse and 2 twin twisters

[@hoangnambach5279]

I was thinking lair cards has come to Duel Links

[@undercover1394]

It just need it like a plus 1in activation type of eff like stage hanger resort in order to fix the problems of drawing multiple fields in one hand

[@Fauxpikachu]

I've been having one heck of a blast with my Lairnoids deck. It's incredibly good in a locals setting.

[@FullxMetalxGear]

Still play Lair Infernoids since the day it released, 2 for 2 beating gouki Knightmare at locals & 2 for 2 against pure sky strikers. I know it’s not consistent like meta decks now, but a good rogue deck. Honestly tributing a big problem monster for cost with Infernoid DD crow effect is so satisfying or resolving monster gate using your opponent’s monsters. If you add the lair monsters to the deck, it actually gets less and less consistent after many months of playtesting. Infernoids just need the field spell & terraforming and that’s all. The less normal summonable monsters in your deck, the crazier monster gate or resolving reasoning becomes

[@glenprudhomme412]

Ppl don't seem to realise the broken Part, Cards that allow you to Tribute your opponent monsters, Yes the effect to Tribute your opponent's monster is one thing and can be broken in itself but cards that activate with the cost of tributing, even if its nagated, if you tribute your opponent's monster, that monster is still tributed cuz that's the cost to activate certain cards, that can't be negated.

[@sartouhou8349]

Ancient Fairy getting banned

[@thangle6164]

Dead Meme #502 it was already banned

[@sartouhou8349]

Lair of Darkness release: April 20 2018 AFD Banlist: May 21 2018

[@RhyperiorRanger]

Rest In Peace Ancient Fairy Dragon. Please keep her company Stratos

[@adamushu]

Rip my easy Crystal wing summon in my blue eyes deck, now the only reliable way to play CWSD is to have glow-up bulb.

[@cryptojonny6837]

Rhyperior Ranger dont worry they are probably safe in the spirit world.