Why Multi-Boxing is Good [MMOPINION]

Multi-player games like World of Warcraft & EverQuest have had problems with gold farmers since the start. They leverage the power of playing multiple characters at once to farm currency or valuable items in game to sell for real money. They often bully other players & disrupt the intended playability of areas. These games have tried to fight these gold farmers but it's had unintended consequences.
Why do people play multiple characters? Why is there a need?
I will reply to all comments made within 24 hours of a video upload.
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#EverQuest #EverQuest2 #WorldofWarcraft

[@demris15]

If DBG made their own boxing software that was built in to the game, that might help too… it would allow them to control things more easily

[@IonBlaze1]

That would be preferred. I like that option. Thank you for sharing Demris :)

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

@@IonBlaze1 they already have this. They are called mercenaries.

[@highlight_anon8907]

@@WhyYouAskingMe mercs aren’t strong enough at high levels though

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

@@highlight_anon8907 if they did more push ups and sit ups they would be.

[@the_flushjackson]

Or simply instituted modern MMO subsystems designed to reward helping each other, as well as utilizing the world environment effectively instead of so strictly with a completely out-of-date “spec’d to level” approach (flatten the world, make it dynamic based on your level or make you level down to engage). Shrouds were kind of like that, but those were deprecated years ago unfortunately.

[@karlharvey601]

Will never box,If I can't play because I can't get class xyz (usually a cleric/enchanter/sham ) I will just go another game,I play an mmorpg to play with other people if I want to play with myself I will play skyrim or one of the other rpgs on steam,but for now I have people to play with on Vaniki.

[@davidrosenthal5795]

I always box and I also always play with others.

[@LanceyKersti]

@@davidrosenthal5795 ditto i will box… and have no problem with others boxing.

[@joshvrooman750]

I box on Vaniki and that's just how I prefer to play. I group if I want to socialize and enjoy frequently using my boxes to help others that can't get guild help to do things like epic quests. Sure there are plenty of other games I can and do play when I get bored of boxing and need a break, but people should play to their preference as long as it doesn't disrupt others.

[@IonBlaze1]

I getcha there. The appeal of newer MMO's is you don't need to box to do 90% of the content. Enjoying ESO right now.

[@evan1612]

No form of window, key, or mouse press assistance should ever be allowed. Having 3 boxed a war/sham/bard, on 3 separate computers, much better than most people seem to even play their own class solo without boxing, I can handily say it's not a problem and most likely those advantages are used due to pure laziness and being unwilling to learn, or just being plain bad at the game which shouldn't be rewarded in any case.

[@gardyloogubbins]

I haven’t watched this video yet, but I did watch your WoW video and you made the remark: “in WoW, you log in and start playing, in EQ, you log in and hope to start playing.” You said that’s one of the big reasons you support boxing. That’s just it though, when I spend time hoping to play, I’m hoping to play eq. A social, multiplayer experience. Boxing isn’t EQ as I remember experiencing it, and so there’s no appeal for me.

[@highlight_anon8907]

multi-boxers that pay are keeping EQ alive, do you agree?

[@Bryan-od7nv]

Absolutely…. They’ll never ban boxers for that reason.

[@IonBlaze1]

I don't know how much they are revenue wise. I heard 3rd hand that some WoW GM said maybe 20-30% of players are boxed.

[@Bryan-od7nv]

@@IonBlaze1 Not sure about WoW multi-boxing numbers, I was referring to why EQ would never ban multi-boxers. I have a fully ToL raid geared necro that is handling the NoS beta zones pretty easily, but as soon as it goes live my BL and Chanter will be joining me as the extra utility is nice to have. If they ever did ban boxing, I’d most likely move onto another game after 22 years of playing.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

not a big fan of "actively" boxing in EQ or any mmo really, by active i mean like playing multiple characters at once grouping etc. I would consider logging in a boxed character to do some buffs / transfer / port etc to be more of "passive" boxing, where you just log in a second character for a moment. I feel like it's the mechanics and the dependency on buffs and groups that drive people to box in everquest. IN WoW the only boxing i remember was just people with 6 shamans in the battlegrounds doing the chain lightning thing, and like running a bunch of bots or whatever. But in general the games are not designed for it, classes are not balanced for it, there is usually some cheesy lame annoying class thats broke when you stack 6 of them, etc. I feel like if boxing is allowed it also encourages botting and automation

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah you're right about the design aspect. Later MMOs & even WoW you don't have to box to do the majority of content. It sucks you have to. Thank you for watching EBike :)

[@beauthestdane]

I started boxing in everquest due to lack of players available. Playerbase was shrinking and I was trying to get quests done that I could not solo. Other times, I just needed to be able to AFK a lot, so I boxed in order to not be a problem to others.

[@jayk2749]

Hey man, I don't play EQ but watching your videos really makes me want to give it a shot. I'm just worried I wont find others to play with, and as you said in a prior video, the game isn't very inviting for solo play. I also don't know if boxing is feasible as a total newcomer. Can you point me in the right direction for getting started as a total newcomer? server recommendation, etc. I'd really appreciate it!

[@Weavus1]

I play on project99 blue server. TONS of people on. Low levels, high levels and groups. It's definitely lively.

[@jeremyjoyner9796]

@@Weavus1 can you tell me the difference between the red, blue, and green servers. I wanted to play and progress through the game from classic and eventually into the expansions. I feel like since the servers have already existed for awhile there won’t be any low levels to play with. Also are they planning on making a new server like “purple” or “teal”? If possible I’d like to start on an even playing field. Sorry for the long questions.

[@Maeousie]

Homie, if you want to start on Yelinak, a TLP server (It's on the 3rd expansion atm), I'll help you out.

[@Maeousie]

@@jeremyjoyner9796 Homie, if you want to start on Yelinak, a TLP server (It's on the 3rd expansion atm), I'll help you out. It's sounds like what you're looking for.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

p99 there are lots of helpful people

[@patrickm.495]

really disagree, i left this game because of boxing. I played EQ in the 2000 - 2002 for social interaction. I never found that again when i came back. so i left and i'm pretty happy of this decision, there is so many other way to get interaction. I rush myself into boardgames and i feel much more happy.

[@angsfeatheredfriends]

Been boxxing on EQ1 since 2003. At first it was just me on my beastlord back in 2001. I would group as much as I could. Groups were still pretty easy to find. A few years and a few alts later it was getting harder and harder to fill out a group. A guild mate of mine introduced me to the idea of playing a second account. He gave me access to one of his side accounts with a 46 druid on it to test it out. I fell in love with having that second character. The fact it was a druid was just a bonus, I could PL lower level alts myself if I wanted to! I didn't have to sit in hubs and beg for a buff now. I could just log in that second character buff myself, and go! I started my own second account after a day playing around on his druid, he was nice enough to PL my own druid higher level so I could keep going. I would PL his alts in return. It worked out well for both of us. Sad fact was, most of the time it was just the 2 of us in a zone. If anyone else did zone in, we would invite them. Otherwise it was just the 2 of us, with us boxxing another account so we could level. 21 years later, I still box. Now I have 3 accounts that I play with, along side a 4th account I just use for buffs. 3 mercs to fill out roles I am lacking. I have yet to see anyone my level range LFG or in the zones I like to level in. Everyone piles into the hot zones, I don't tend to like the hot zone. I am a sucker for kunark and luclin at various levels. Ones that don't tend to be hot zones at all. So there I am, in a zone, alone. I also love working on epic 1.0s when my alts hit their 50s. No one else wants to be dragged along on those things. So I need to box most of the fights. No one wants to camp Lguk for 18 hours for someone elses epic drop lol. My constant need to afk for medical reasons and playing weird hours also forces me to box if I want to play EQ.

[@ogjuggalo4671]

What add on you use for your boxing, I run a shaman and sk bit overwhelming sometimes to click over to throw out a heal

[@briancuprisin4571]

In my experience, boxers not only kill groups by taking group spots that could go to single-character players, they kill entire zones for effective grouping. I've seen entire zones where every conceivable camp is monopolized by boxers. It gets to the point where people just avoid those zones because they know they'll never find a viable group or, if they put together their own group, a viable camp spot. Additionally, most of your rationale yet again boils down to, "easier!" Hard pass.

[@Shanso420]

Hey Ion, have you heard of Project Lazarus? I have been boxing 6 characters on there and I have been enjoying it so far

[@curtwarkentin2887]

A few massive topics were missing in your video. I do a combo of botting and boxing. I use a fully automated tank with merc cleric (bot) and run a ranger myself to pull. One problem i frequently run into is people asking to join my group. I usually have a few small toons in the background logged in to leech exp to level them up. Im fine with others joining me as i grind but 99% of those players quickly go afk once in my group and just take up a slot that i could have had one of my toons in to leech. Ive had guys go afk for hours while im busy grinding. So to me boxing and botting allows us less advanced players to try and play catch up.

[@chrisporter6572]

Imo I think a solution 1.) Limit the amount of Kronos or tokens can be obtained by in game currency per a month standard. Example a person on a EQ server I play on has on barter to purchase 95 tokens. That's fine he has all that plat but maybe he should be restricted to say 5 a month. 2.) Kronos and tokens can't be exchanged more than once. Example I buy Kronos with my real money and sell it to a person either bazaar or personally, that is one transfer and that is where it stops. Combine those 2 will reduce the number of accounts for one person. Why would someone need to buy 95 Kronos unless to bot so many accounts. I don't see where someone needs to box more than 5 accounts therefore say 5 Kronos a month is sufficient. Just examples and my opinion people don't harshly. I'm not saying you can't box, I don't see why more than like 5. But someone will find a way around that because I just thought of a way. Just brainstorming.

[@drewmaxwell440]

I play on a EMU server that allows 3 boxing. There is a free version of wineq that we can use to swap between toons with one key instead of the alt tab disaster. I have gotten very good with my 3 box and if I would ever choose to do this on live or a TLP I would drop one or two of my toons anyday for someone playing one toon.

[@IonBlaze1]

You make a good point. I prefer not to box honestly but sometimes you're forced to.

[@eideticex]

There's also an in-between category where we use semi-automatic bots. My current setup looks for when I turn on attack, then invokes a hotkey named "Start Combat" and once the mob dies invokes one named "End Combat". These keys assist the MA, for the melee char move them up to melee range, debuff and slow the mob. For things like healing, epic clicks, spires, dots and the like I use hotkeys that relay across to matching hotkeys on the respective character. I really didn't want to do that. I would rather group with real players but I actually want to play the game too so boxing became essential. I'll drop my boxes for actual players any day, may even use them to help other players. But let's face it, things changed in the last few years that elevated everyone's social anxiety. People are just less willing to hang out with total strangers in-game. I remember it being like this long ago too, I think that changed around LDoN but not to the scope/severity it is now.

[@IonBlaze1]

Great point Eidetic. Boxing is not the preferred way to play, it's just necessary. I didn't think the recent world events had a big influence on grouping but thanks for pointing that out

[@willt6156]

fyi, you can box easier with multiple monitors. and also maybe instead of using 3 classes. just have some kind of dps/tank and a healer. Arrange you UI so that that hotbars are on the right side of the left monitor, and one the left side of the right monitor.

[@Hijynx87]

I used to box back in the Luclin days, used my Druid to plvl my alts. So much fun lol.

[@shaunburns2179]

Bards camt solo? Maybe not summoned creatures, but are great at charm soloing

[@maxpower2511]

I think 2 boxing is fine especially when the population is low.

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah that's the system they put in on the new servers yeah? Relaxed true box after a population drops in later expansions?

[@ruffnarbobnar5960]

The most layed back boxing I ever had was 4 box each toon was on its own pc I kept 3 numpads next to my mouse each numpad was for one of the boxes. Worked really good and was easy going. Some days I would only play 1 sometimes 2 toons,, then other days all 4 depending on what I was in the mood for. I always allowed ppl to group up and would keep boxes nearby to help out out of group. Anyway the way I see it as long as your not ruining other players fun in a game everyone should play how they want. On the flipside this set of tlps's that came put for eq1 I didn't bother subbing back up to play.

[@IonBlaze1]

I like that perspective you shared Ruffnar. Yeah if it's not bothering anyone, then does it matter how you enjoy the game. Nice to see your comments as always :)

[@darczee1]

So good to see you back my good friend, we've been blessed the past few days! As always, love the uploads mate ☺

[@Anonymous-ru2wk]

Thanks for another great video Ion Blaze

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you :)

[@blustosa]

Multi-boxing with all in one screen macros hurt the game almost as much as boting... I mean, these are the exact people you said were hurting the game in your other video... People who 6+box Phinny spawns, sit on Pawbuster, claim epic camps, etc. If they had to alt tab they wouldn't be able to be running 6 players. Boxing 2 characters, 3 maybe, I see as totally fine, but when you have macros that run multiple characters among multiple pcs / windows, then you are creating the exact same problems that bots do...

[@Random49558]

Love all your videos

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you Random :) Nice to see you as always

[@beauthestdane]

Daybreak at least, only bans using ISBoxer on truebox servers. Regular servers they do not seem to have an issue with using them. I use ISBoxer even when playing one character because it just makes EQ better, even when using absolutely no features of ISBoxer other than the full screen capability while browsing on another screen.

[@beauthestdane]

I should add, the way they ban ISBoxer on truebox is to disconnect you, not ban you if they detect it running, even if you are only playing one character.

[@raouldegrunt2685]

Thank you for again an amazing video. I fully agree will everything you mention in this video. I was of the opinion that I would never box, but when I pickup up EQ again after 17 years I enjoyed the tradeskilling on my lvl 65 main Bard (Coldain shawl). It was thanks to Hammackj that I got started with boxing. At first, when my brother wanted to play, I did 2 characters, then quickly added a third (for porting). Then I started my own 5-box party with the goal to finish content that I did not finish back in the day (PoP and Epics 1.5) ... I need to scratch that 18-years long itch ;) I brought my group (1 Auto-granted Tank with healer Merc and 4 FRP) to level 51 and then I burned out. Camping was all fine, but traveling became such a burden. Having to alt-tab to hit follow, but then characters starting to run around in circles just got me very annoyed. So a couple of weeks ago I subbed for ISBoxer and it makes playing so much easier. Being able to use CTRL+ALT+# to switch to a window is a game changer over ALT+TAB. There is virtually no more running around in circles anymore because ISBoxer preserves the framerate of every window. Plus I only use 1 to = Hotkey broadcasting, which I actually believe you can do without. The program can do so much more, but this is all I need. The reasons I box are basically what you said in the video: I do not have a lot of time to play, and with children, I will get interrupted. So I need to determine my own start and stop times, and I will be a burden on other people if I would group. Also, I have no desire to level to 100 and blast it solo because that will not fulfill my desire. But above all, I want to be respectful to other players and give a camp to them, etc. As I am on live (Antonius Bale, since 2000), there is close to no one in the zones I am playing in, so for me it is a very legitimate way and I don't bother other people. Will I fully sub 6 characters (I am leveling a Cleric to replace the Merc)? No, but I might do it for a single month in the future, for raid content to achieve my goals. Again thank you, and HammackJ, for all the amazing EQ content. I can relate so much because our roads and love of Everquest are so similar.

[@IonBlaze1]

I'm glad you found a way to play the game at all. I get those struggles you mentioned. Thank you for the great comment Raoul :)

[@enntense]

@@IonBlaze1 On the "not as good as a real player". My main was a monk. My 6 box crew was 3 monks, a shaman, bard, and a zerk.(yeah stuff melted). But on the not as good as a real player. When boxing, what do you think my other 2 other monks did?..Yeah EXACTLY the same think my main was doing. So yeah, they were as good as any player:) Actually, sadly, since they were following my main, I was standing in front of the mob tanking a lot while they were attacking from behind, and they would out DPS my main..Sad but true.

[@darkwulf2k]

It is does suck in regards to boxing, that a few bad apples are ruining it for those who do not use it for nefarious purposes. AKA the phinny vid I saw the other day. It always annoyed me on the TLR's to see 6 mages walk by, and steal a camp. I do not mind the tank that has the pocket box healer, they come in handy. It is how i have gotten grps before because they do want someone to talk to while playing. It just bothers me when I try to get a camp in EQ, and you see a full boxxed party there sometimes.

[@rardenraynes7470]

What about those that have medical reasons? I for one live with Parkinson's. Reaching over to another keyboard to hit a 'heal' may result in other things with my tremors. Having software to help out with keystrokes does make life easier to box. And as far as grouping. Me personally I only run 3 toons so there is still room for others to join. There are several 'botters' that do the same thing. Still want to be social but also want to get things done in the short amount of time they have to play.

[@IonBlaze1]

That is a great addition. Thank you for mentioned that people do it for medical conditions. I like your set up too. I 3 box on EQ2 so there's always room for someone to join just like what you do. Thank you for the great comment Rarden :)

[@Inmate533]

This is why I've decided to build my own old-school MMORPG similar to EQ. My enforcement on cheaters, farmers, and bots will be vengeful! Boxers will be welcomed on certain servers and without 3rd-party software assistance of any kind. The biggest problem I have with boxing with key broadcasting is that you can broadcast to 5 or 6 players at a time and do 5 to 6 times the amount of any damage/healing/debuffing all at once, versus single players or even groups who are never doing things exactly simultaneously. As a game dev, it's not worth taking the extra sub money if you're just going to cause major headaches for the people who can't afford to buy additional subs. I used to love playing 5 shammies in WoW and go up against other players where I could blast them with 5 lightning bolts at a time, all while having 5 sets of totems up at all times. It would take at least 7 or 8 people to take me down. It was obvious that I had an unfair advantage. Also, killing quest trash was the same way. I would hit mobs 5 times simultaneously and pretty much one-shot them, and easily clear an entire area of mobs for hours in an area where other people were trying to do the same quests. This wasn't abuse. This was simply the nature of boxing while using a key-broadcaster and nothing more. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. This is just my opinion on the subject.

[@spuds7677]

I have 4 monitors that I box from. I also have a nice gaming laptop that I use for the other 2. I haven't jumped into any software assistance because of the fear that I may get my main 2 accounts banned. Sometimes I box 3 toons and use Mercs to fill the space. Help with healing and some DPS. Boxing is a must in Today's EQ and they need to make their own software to allow boxing in a safe manor.

[@enntense]

Nice, I ran a 43" 4k off to my left with multi inputs. I 4 split the screen (4 21" 1080p). So Id look to my left and in one glance see 4 toons on the same screen. It was pretty pimp.

[@Florence00pi]

Dual Boxing a cleric and anything else let's you play at 199% efficiency though ;-) ..... sit on ass ... complete heal... sit on ass again... not really much to do to play cleric at 100%^^. I boxed with cleric monk and shaman monk usually, but if someone would want to join the group, I would just open up the boxed spot of course, why box when a real player can and want's to join your group? The "Macros" you can do with everquest itself (/pause 5, /stand, /pause 100, /cast 1, /sit) or similar (from memory, played years ago) make it easy enough, so you don't really need second party programms.

[@silk2612]

Multi boxed for quite a while on EQ, don't have it on full screen where you can see tabs at bottom on toolbar, easy to switch between, or just run cursor over to see window and make sure nobody is doing the loop follow(those who box know what I mean) , always ran a bard in one of the 3, and with 3 mercs had a full party, didn't have to wait on anyone, didn't have to feel bad if I had to go, etc. But not going to lie, sometimes ya just want to run one! Wish I had a laptop to play with ya ion, budget won't allow it atm, maybe in the future. But I do love playing a healer and the bard!

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for the comment Silk. It's a convenient way to play when you're forced to but I appreciate how you mentioned 1 character is preferred. No way I'd like to raid on all of them at once

[@silk2612]

@@IonBlaze1 I remember back in the day when it was hard to get around , waiting on a grp for hours, trying to get a few kills in solo without dying, finally get a tell for a group, but they couldn't be any farther from you. You head that way, spend quite a bit of time getting there and the group breaks up before ya get there or 10min after, so frustrating NGL. The dilemma was, was it going to take longer to get a port or just run there! LoL

[@Kulaan]

I hope your influence strikes Daybreak in the right spot to go back to allowing isboxer, I mean keyboards and mice can come with macro programs that will automate an entire battle.

[@IonBlaze1]

Hopefully /cross finger. Thank you for the support Hunter :)

[@sweetyd]

Thinking more about this. Your solution you presented at the end of the video isn't a bad idea. But I think it's a little unrealistic to expect DBG to take on the task of policing Multi-boxing. I'd assume they don't have the bandwidth nor the budget to take on such a task. Even if the end result is a net positive for the game, a cost/benefit analysis may prove that time and money could have netted a higher return elsewhere. Admittedly I am just guessing about all of this. But with a game that doesn't have a huge revenue stream (like WoW), it seems reasonable to assume.

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah I see your point. It is a stretch to make a boxing system. We can hope though. Thank you D

[@iwinnimi]

I box a full group with in game macros. But also have very specific key binding... I've eliminated / assist with key bindings... also holds through real group. I press this macro or that macro. I also set my ui colors... all the ui is the same... but colors so I know what character I'm on faster.. tank red caster blue priest green hybrid orange. I also farm old items with reposte skill and advanced loot. There are many other tricks to box with the tools offered

[@iwinnimi]

I can box any 6 ... or 12 classes (running all 16 is a chore) 1 account per class. 16 accounts. Those accounts with have different races for the same class... this bonus or that...

[@Calmethar.]

Couldn't agree more, Ion.

[@Nickelback8469]

I went into the video heavily disagreeing and after watching it through I still respectfully disagree but I can understand why people do it and I can see some room for grey areas. It's extremely disencouraging to go into a zone looking to group and all I see are blobs of clearly boxed characters, and I think that allowing a lot of room for solo play detracts from the draw of MMO's like EQ. I sympathize for servers with small populations or players that play during off hours however and I see the grey area there.

[@SoneCutter]

Thanks !

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for watching Swift

[@Choklar_]

Still not a fan of boxing, but you do make a few good points.

[@andrewdavies4280]

Until there is some actual enforcement - then the videos about this type of thing is kinda moot. I mean, I've been boxing and I've never seen a GM - I've seen people botting, exploiting and all that. GM are nowhere to be seen to actually message someone and see if they are actually there or not, or see if the characters are on some kind of programmed loop. I don't really care about botters so much, as long as they aren't taking up camps and move on when needed - they exist because an aging community has more money than time, and want to be able to play without putting 10 hours a day into the game. If people didn't buy, they wouldn't farm.

[@IonBlaze1]

I appreciate the different take Andrew. It's a good point if the botters aren't bothering anyone then does it matter? Not really. It's all a symptom of the community aging. Thank you for sharing that.

[@tarb1320]

Great video and explanations, You are spot on with every point. You right most people don't even understand the difference between Botting and Boxing, in addition most people don't understand the skill boxing takes to be successful, it really is an artform.

[@benjamin6927]

@Ion blaze - Well said man. I Box these days because I have 3 kids and a wife that demand my attention. I frequently take breaks because of this.... Or i play super late at night after they all go to bed and I can't get help from others but the guild expects me to keep up with flags / gear etc. Really... It came down to the fact that i wanted to maximize the little time i have to play. I love MMO's and playing nothing but MMO's

[@jasonm8374]

I played EQ from 2000 until WoW came out. I left EQ because I was tired of wasting time to find a group everyday. At that point in time you had to raid if you wanted decent gear. With Wow at least I was able to progress solo if I wanted. In the end though you still needed to commit to raiding if you wanted decent gear. So I left WoW. A couple of years ago I rediscovered EQ and I like the changes in the game. Those alone though aren’t enough for me to stay. What bridges the gap for me is boxing. Without I would not play it.

[@Remianen]

Simple answer: MONEY! At this point, if EQ operated at a loss, EG7 would shut it down. People paying for multiple accounts for convenience sake just adds to the black side of the ledger. Heck, I don't even pay for 3 of my accounts (DCUO pre-release lifetime sub) but they still get money from me when an illusion drops onto the marketplace that I like (most of my characters got the siren illusion....before I found out only the enchanters needed to get it).

[@calvin6449]

I still think multi box bans the way to go. Just merge the servers. Offer an great exp padding and alternative reward for helping new players. Instance the raid bosses and lock out timers upon entry per account

[@beauthestdane]

I play a shaman as my main, have for 20+ years now in EQ. I admit though, when boxing, he is not the one I pay the most attention to. That being said, with his gear and development, he is actually my best DPS character too.

[@GeorgeSmith-ze5vk]

I have always boxed… I have always used alt tab… I play 4 toons.. I also don’t farm money … and I don’t know any other way to box…I love the challenge of boxing 4 toons.. and my wife will box 2.. we groups by ourselves cause our time play..we worked in a casino till 4 in the morning and we came home and played.. the server we were on that was a crazy time for people not to play. Everyone was sleeping at that time.. my wife and I completed my Druid monk warrior shaman epics.. and we also completed my wife’s chanter and cleric by ourselves… I don’t get people doing this to make money.. then it becomes a job… I play to relax.. now.. it’s been over 10 years since I played.. and now I’m back baby.. I’m on test and play for free.. I don’t care about the latest expansions..I just play to level my toons.. and have fun.. if we get loot we can’t use I’ll shout out for who ever to come get it.. why do I need to keep it.. if it helps someone else out , it’s theirs… it’s how I’ve always been… I’ve been trained.. help the people who trained us get bodies back.. this is before easy corpse recovery…it’s a game and that’s all it is.. you have fun or you don’t need to play..

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

Bots need no human input to play. However, bot software doesn't play any characters if a human doesn't press the button to launch the software. 😀

[@IonBlaze1]

Haha that is true :) Got me by technicality lol

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

@@IonBlaze1 🙂

[@joshvrooman750]

I love EQ and have played since 99. I'm not 18 and single anymore and to be honest 5 of my six accounts are lifetime accounts with dozens of characters I have sentimental attachments to ( a couple are my late Father's who gamed with me to spend time together; we were both active duty Marines deployed to different parts of the world frequently) Like you as I got older and more responsibilities; wife, kids, business owner I found less time to enjoy my game time. I did for a time use 3rd patty software like ISBoxer to help automate some functions of my box team. I played that way off and on for five years on live with no issues. Last February I got a suspension on one account for cheating. This was running an alt group during a 2 hour play session in Plane of Hate during which no other players ever showed up. I always make sure my game play is non disruptive to others. I would honestly like to see DBG make an option that allows players to just create their own pick to run in zone alone as it would eliminate the problem of bot armies perma camping valuable named camps. I know DBG doesn't have the resources to police the game and that even on an old game such as EQ botting is a problem. This was made more of an issue with the creation of TLP servers and the desire for Kronos. The other option in my mind would be to render 3rd party software as unnecessary by providing their own program in game to utilize multiple accounts as mercenary characters allowing them to create and enforce the level of restrictions the developer would be alright with ( obviously I don't expect my automated SK to be able to swarm pull ). I play currently on Vaniki and don't really have time to raid, but want to enjoy the game on my terms. With today's update truebox gets further relaxed so I am looking forward to playing my 5 characters on one screen.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for the great comment Josh. I'm right there with you. Something needs to be done cause the current system isn't working well.

[@WhyYouAskingMe]

Best way to enjoy the game on your own terms is to create your own emulated EQ server. I did this and just played as a GM. 🤣

[@joshvrooman750]

@@WhyYouAskingMe that's fantastic and I actually would consider it though I wouldn't know where to begin

[@Blacksunstoneful]

The reason broadcasting with isoboxer is banned in WoW isn't cause of botting, but because it shits up PvP; it was annoying queueing into a 5v5 arena or battle ground and instantly getting deleted as a boxer keycloned a dozen shamans or druids to pop trinkets and spam AoE one shots by slamming '1' on the keyboard; there was no counterplay to it outside hoping you drop the main character and fear bomb the /follow clones so they get stuck on opposite sides of the map incapable of one tapping you

[@rbebut1]

I three box on one computer. History. I was up to x expansion pack till I lost what expansion package went with what zone. I gave up and saw there was a Mac server and hopped on board. At least I know the x packs and zones. When the Mac server went down. P99 was to there to save the day. Then after 3 years. Then one day I hopped back on Live and saw Achievements. I was hooked. I knew I needed some help so I made 2 more free to play accounts and the rest is history. I also hooked up with a lot of other Achievement players

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for sharing that Ralph. Achievement players are kinda rare. I only saw one in my old guild but he 6 boxed to get it all done.

[@toastsniffer187]

Check out my couple videos on me boxing 48 characters in potime and muramite proving grounds on project eq

[@zappedcustomdesigns788]

I love boxing. I use 6 pcs to run 9 accounts haha. I just do for exp grinding. im not a plat farmer or krono farmer.

[@Roguedeus]

Good solution. May actually work.

[@TheHugeDwarf]

most of my experiences with boxers have been negative, they are boxing because either they dont like others or others dont like them. i know a few people who are different and use their boxes to help the guild but they are part a small percentage.

[@IonBlaze1]

I'm sorry you've had that experience. The ones that do abuse this are prominent.

[@Remianen]

And why is that a problem? I have friends who box multiples because they had bad experiences playing one character so they don't want to expose themselves to those experiences anymore. Longtime players can tell you stories about clerics who demanded loot or wouldn't join because you weren't doing the spot THEY wanted to do. Or tanks who were poorly equipped for the content they demanded the group do. Because of their class role, people had to acquiesce to their demands or the group would fall apart (EQ blackmail). Enough of those types of experiences and you wouldn't like (or trust) others either!

[@Rage-_-Quit]

I think what makes people salty about the issue is it shows individual player skill with their class doesn't matter that much anymore, since games like EQ have become significantly easier. I remember our top clr back in the day, we didn't have a tank so he jumped in and tanked hard ldons while also healing, that was just crazy back in the day. Today it is "no point in maining clr, having one as a box is enough", so seeing boxes being just as good as you after years of dedication to a class kinda sucks, but that's just how games are now.

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

Suffice to say....that is a ogrish & shadowy knight with a two-handed weapon that just may stun............

[@IonBlaze1]

Haha it's freakishly long. It's some Lance weapon

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

@@IonBlaze1 it is a ion enriched conductor for a hilt, pommel & each. 😶 All that is missing is heavily enchanted equipment for the sake of regeneration & defense each. 🤹

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

@@IonBlaze1 I never did get that far with even glancing things. Enchantment slots & such. Safe travels stranger! 🤹

[@novyxl9672]

I box on agnarr because I play at odd times and need groups in a hurry most times. But I will 100% drop any of my boxes because real people play better then my extras

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for sharing that Novyx :) There are a lot of friendly boxers just like that.

[@novyxl9672]

@@IonBlaze1 if anyone out there in the Everquest realms plays on Agnarr look me up if you need a group 99 9% of the time my cleric Daarben is online when I am.

[@BerraLJ]

I would say in some games is more or less a must, but i also feel it can ruin a game.

[@IonBlaze1]

Yeah you're right about it. I wish it wasn't needed. I prefer to play 1 but some games require help that you just can't get. It can ruin a game.

[@BerraLJ]

@@IonBlaze1 Now i have tons of accounts but rarely play more than one, i use them for buffing mostly :)

[@sweetyd]

Love your videos. Interestingly, I multi-box. I play and PAY for 6 EQ2 accounts. No software to assist. If DayBreak stops allowing me to do that. I will quit forever. That's not just 6 subs, it's also 6 expansions, 6 accounts buying DB Cash to speed up overseer quests, spell upgrades, etc. $300-400 a month is normal for players like me.

[@sweetyd]

Thinking more about this. Your solution you presented at the end of the video isn't a bad idea. But I think it's a little unrealistic to expect DBG to take on the task of policing Multi-boxing. I'd assume they don't have the bandwidth nor the budget to take on such a task. Even if the end result is a net positive for the game, a cost/benefit analysis may prove that time and money could have netted a higher return elsewhere. Admittedly I am just guessing about all of this. But with a game that doesn't have a huge revenue stream (like WoW), it seems reasonable to assume.

[@IonBlaze1]

Holy smokes that is a lot of expense! Yeah it costs a lot to run those big crews

[@the_flushjackson]

Yeah, and honestly this is probably on the mild expense side. I know people who aren’t doing any RMT that have 12+ accounts with up-to-date expansions going. The amount of income tied to boxing is non-trivial, and that’s not even covering how Kronos play into the system.

[@entitledindustries9135]

i support botters. they help skip the bad grindy elements of games. everquest 2 is a great example. crafting requires materials, which you literally just fucking walk around and click on the ground over and over and over to gather. there's nothing fun about that. i'm glad botters are around to do that, then sell me the materials for cheap on the broker. i wouldn't play eq2 if those materials were expensive lol. i'm just not gonna do it.

[@runepetersen5698]

Botters should be banned. Boxers who use programs to play should be banned. 1 key press = 1 action. Truebox should be removed entirely, i've said that before, its a terrible idea since cheaters will circumvent it anyway and the legit players are getting the shaft. That and running several computers just drain away resources for absolutely no reason. Maybe just enable relaxed truebox, 3 accounts "should" be plenty for most people's needs to start groups and do things between raids or exp grouping or whatever you do. I support your opinion that boxing is fine and even needed/helpful at times - I'll never support advocating for using any program that helps you play and give you an unfair advantage over people that do not use those programs. Its part of the terms that 3rd party programs must not give you an advantage over other players and Isboxer very clearly does. Its bannable and it should be, but i doubt we'll see Daybreak ever enforce their own rules.

[@casrogue]

To get rid of botters and hire GMs like in the old days. I can not believe they won't hire GM people. All they have to do is patrol certain camps and get rid of botters. Plus make a few GM events lol

[@tgo007]

Gms cost a lot of money and EQ is a small game. Smarter to make content with a small team instead of hiring gms.

[@Quaze75]

Agree to disagree, any third party program besides a parse i consider cheating.

[@Maxamos]

IMO boxing is pay 2 win and always will be. It also hurts group formation because a person who would normally be an eligible groupie is now isolated playing by themselves in a box group. That kind of anti-social behavior hurts eq in the long run and is one of the reasons p99 is so enjoyable and remains classic.

[@LanceyKersti]

Not true

[@joshvrooman750]

But is it really p2w? I have to develop, gear, skill up and flag each of my characters. It's not handed to me. It's also a headache at times to box. You claim boxing hurts group formation but on live servers there are very few active groups out there ie Rathe server. On TLPs sure there are gaps if you ant to ride the tide and stay on current content, but that's honestly a part time job. When I was 18 and playing EQ in 99' that was fine. Now I'm 40 with 5 kids and responsibilities that limit my play time. Thr vast majority of EQs population I would think have a similar story to tell. Just food for thought.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for giving the video a chance Maxamos :) I appreciate how P99 is clear about all this. Wish there was that with Live

[@Maxamos]

@@IonBlaze1 I love your videos! It is a good discussion to have

[@dylanpaul7371]

Boxing is ridiculous

[@thanniss]

I was pretty good at boxing.

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for the watching Thanniss :)

[@thanniss]

@@IonBlaze1 wish there was a good updated undead leveling path along with good undead weapons. Like ghoulbane equivalent higher level weapons.

[@MaiussX]

Wrong

[@IonBlaze1]

Thank you for giving the video a shot Sarrus

[@the_flushjackson]

Boxing is a symptom of a broken game, it’s hilarious how much EverQuest supports boxing just by design. Contrast and compare to FFXIV which has an amazing on-ramp and total population “help new and upcoming players” reward system, in addition to the multi-class / job system. Also, look at the F2P nonsense EverQuest instituted. If they hate botting and boxing so much, why do they allow F2P / Silver characters? Botters build armies on EverQuest’s dime, it’s mind numbingly puzzling. Personally, I don’t care if people use any software as long as they aren’t disruptive to the general populace. I make a distinction of “enhanced boxing” vs full-blown automation, and as you said using just input broadcasting is not as easy as people who have never set it up think - in my opinion even the broadcast input approach is too tiring to do and really doesn’t work for melee anyway (only thing you save on is not using alt-tabbing, but 6 x window swap hotkeys is more than tenuous for most).

[@enntense]

Yeah, I 6 boxed on Mangler. True box server. Thanks Nord VPN :) You just scatter the log in locations a little. I would always drop boxes for any real players. Hell, we even split raid shit in guild by having a few 6 boxers that ran the whole crew on raids. One of the most fun things we would do is run our box teams and take on older raid content. You get 3 real people with 6 box crews and you can do some interesting raid content.

[@Tailionis]

But how is that fun?

[@MrBeegs88]

I'm a doctor. Last time I was playing EQ I was in the middle of open heart surgery but I wasn't able to continue leveling my character because the patient was dying, it was horrible, I sure wish I was able to multi-box. It was so frustrating to have to attend to my real life responsibilities because of this stupid form of entertainment known as a "game" had limitations that required me to be at my keyboard and enjoy the form of entertainment known as a "game". After I got off work, I went home to my beautiful wife and child. After slipping into something more comfortable and spending time with my family, I realized that I had not yet reached level 47. Just as I logged onto my game, my wife began to caress my shoulders and ask if I would like to join her in the bedroom. It was so frustrating to have to choose between making love to my wife and getting my form of entertainment's character to level 48. I sure wish I was able to multi-box.

[@IonBlaze1]

Hahaha that's a silly retort. I like it. Thank you for giving the video a shot Mr Beegle

[@MrBeegs88]

@@IonBlaze1 I like your channel :) I saw you play with a few Castle guild members. I play on P99 Blue on Castle guild. I was just being a shitknocker. Pay no attention

[@MrBeegs88]

@@PharmacyBrain Idk... I lost my job as a surgeon because I didn't give up my Ancient Cyclops spawn and my wife is staying at her parents because I didn't pick up my son from school.. but some guy needed a rez in Kael.. so.. priorities ya know? I could really use a friend, or a POTG

[@andrewburrows7711]

i bot 54 toons =P i dont see a problem with it aslong as you dont sit in named camps

[@WatchingFromWork6636]

Everquest is built around grouping. Boxers absolutely disrupt zones/camps. You said “it’s their money, it’s their choice how to play”. When talking about boxers holding a camp. That’s the issue, one person can hold a camp that many should be able to. Without boxing this can’t happen. People don’t play healer mains because boxers make it so you don’t have to. The idea of using software to help box is trash. If you want to play two characters PLAY two characters. Also it is botting. You are controlling ONE character and the others just follow what you tell them based on the same exact key presses you’d be using for the one character anyway. I would love programs to be banned that help botting like WoW did. If you want to box, play both characters FULLY. I think this is the problem people have. No key broadcasting or whatever you said. You bought multiple accounts, you deserve to play them but you should be forced to PLAY them. Just my opinion. I do like your videos, just really disagree on this one. Boxing? Sure. Using programs? Nope.

[@the_flushjackson]

I disagree, use automation and convenience software full tilt - just don’t bother others and be polite as you would approaching it as a solo player. EverQuest groups are non-existent pre-level cap on Live, and dare I say quite rare even at cap in the manner that the game used to enjoy.

[@WatchingFromWork6636]

@@the_flushjackson So because it's hard you should be able to use hacks? I said you can play two characters I think you should have to PLAY them both. I actually dual boxed back when Kunarak came out. Two computers, two accounts and played both characters. I see zero issues with that. When you use software to help you that's simply cheating IMO. That's why it's been banned on other MMO's. You can talk around reasons for it, you can sugar coat it, but the fact is you have multiple characters acting on one keystroke that's cheating if you ask anyone outside of the gaming community. Asking inside the community is eschewed because of people that like it so they won't admit it's cheating.

[@the_flushjackson]

@@WatchingFromWork6636 Using hacks? This is accessibility software as far as I'm concerned. "Hacks" is effectively in a realm all their own, many of which were GM-level exploits that have been patched for years. Nobody is condoning hacks, but of course I'm also saying your definition of hacks is complete nonsense. I neither need to talk around nor gain your approval for using the software as I do. It breaks the EULA and I'm fine with the risk, it essentially keeps a poorly maintained game playable.

[@WatchingFromWork6636]

@@the_flushjackson "It breaks the EULA and I'm fine with the risk Cheat, and don't care. you are literally no better than the bots that run around, convince yourself otherwise but that's simply a fact. How much you break the EULA doesn't matter, if you break it you should be perma banned. They need to do what WoW did and run people like you out of the game. As much as you try to wrongly justify this you just admitted it was cheating and you didn't care. May all your camps be swarmed by the bots you support.

[@the_flushjackson]

@@WatchingFromWork6636 How does it go from a discussion about software, which you honestly have no clue about (read as: you're ignorant), to saying I'm a botter (your previous comment erroneously called it hacks) and that you hope all of my camps are swarmed by "bots you support"? Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and take a breather, you sound angry and despondent. Touch grass, or whatever the kids are saying now. 😂

[@rabidjakalope]

This video activly encourages Pay to win. If you can afford to box you should be allowed to. 10:30.