Why the Good Imperial Narrative is a Lie

The "Good Imperial" character type in Star Wars has always been one of my favorites. The fact that a person can maintain their integrity and morality in such a cruel organization is an inspiration and gives one hope. But ultimately the Good Imperial is a tragic character and a cautionary tale.
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[@ButchererofRussia]

I get why there are fans who like the story mode of Battlefront II, but good lord, they totally gave us the middle finger when the promised fascinating story about fierce imperials protagonists quickly became a generic Rebellion tale!

[@Ravum]

I had to stop playing the campaign over that.

[@Leywaaaa]

I just hate that we couldnt enjoy pure Empire Propaganda.

[@twofacedmgrim]

​@@LeywaaaaConsider checking out the og battlefront 2 back on the PS2 and Xbox era. The final story mission takes place on Hoth. Spoiler of sorts, your controlling a member of the 501st aka Vader's unit.

[@amn0940]

I wouldn't mind having Versio joining the Rebellion if they actually deepened into Iden's life in the empire and the shock of operation cinder with what she actally thought the empire was about, instead of just making 3 missions and called it a day. Litteraly excluding the cutscene where they are captured in Lando's ship, a few quotes and Husk boss fight in Jakku and you can skip the empire part of the campaign without missing anything.

[@pubcle]

I thought for a second you were talking about Battlefield II 2005 and was ready to argue with you hard about its quality. Yes, EA BF2's story is BAD, Operation Cinder is, frankly, moronic.

[@josephesquivel4066]

Another thing to mention was prior to Owen and Beru's death, Luke had considered enrolling in the Imperial Academy himself. He had no love for the Empire but when seeing the alternative was a life stuck as moisture farmer on Tatooine; joining the Empire was a line Luke had considered crossing.

[@godking]

People join the army today for exactly the same reason!

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

​​@hismhsYeah, exactly. He mentioned Biggs doing it, because a lot of people would join the Empire for fringe benefits like training and then leave. Han Solo (in Legends) actually went to the Imperial Academy to learn how to fly as well before defecting to become a smuggler. It makes way more sense than some rando 3rd party organization that somehow isn't getting shut down by the authoritarian Empire. Like why would they just allow that to happen? Some 3rd party to train literal rebels? It doesn't make any sense for the Empire Anyone who thought that is honestly pretty naive at best.

[@6Rock6God6]

He wanted to go to the Academy for training to then take to the Rebellion, as is explicitly stated in the deleted scenes with Biggs on Tatooine.

[@silverchairsg]

It's the same reason why people join the CCP as party members. Need guanxi to survive in Chinese society.

[@Sephiroth144]

@hismhs It was pretty heavily implied in the 1976 novelization (and the deleted scenes) that it was an Imperial Academy (Biggs) "I made some friends at the Academy," he whispers. "When our frigate goes to one of the central systems, we're going to jump ship and join the Alliance..." Luke, amazed and stunned, is almost speechless. "Join the Rebellion?! Are you kidding! How?" "Quiet down, will ya?"

[@Reoh0z]

I'd imagine the majority of Imperials would be like most humans. Keeping their head down, minding their own business, just trying to pay their bills. The problem is when they're faced with following orders or paying the consequences for disobedience. People like to think of themselves as the hero in their story, but most of us would be shocked what we'd do just so we can go home again to our families.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

HBO’s Chernobyl deals with this issue directly. More recently there was a movie “Argentina, 1985” that dramatized the story of the prosecutor that took on the military junta after they fell from power (but were still very popular in many circles).

[@Robert-hz9bj]

There's a line from the film "Judgement at Nuremburg" which has always stuck with me: "Janning's record and his fate illuminate the most shattering truth that has emerged from this trial: If he and all of the other defendants had been degraded perverts, if all of the leaders of the Third Reich had been sadistic monsters and maniacs, then these events would have no more moral significance than an earthquake, or any other natural catastrophe. But this trial has shown that under a national crisis, ordinary -- even able and extraordinary -- men can delude themselves into the commission of crimes so vast and heinous that they beggar the imagination." The true terror of authoritarians and despots is not simply in the evil that they do, but how easily they can convince ordinary, even good people, to accept their evil as necessary or even righteous...

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

Yep That's why I stand against all forms on encroaching Marxism, Socialism, or open communism. The "Marxism to Dictatorship Pipeline" is real. Every single government that slides into central planning ends up as police states. But people still believe that an ideology responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people in the 20th century has a place in today's world. It's absolutely nuts. If nazism is reviled so badly, you would think people wouldn't be so stupid as to fall for Stalin's flavor, but no. Unironic communists are just everywhere now.

[@dejabu24]

The Nuremberg trials was a propaganda stunt , they set the example with the leadership of their former enemy by applying laws that didn’t exist prior to that during the war or before.

[@rexlumontad5644]

"The Empire improves every system it touches. Judge by any metric. Safety, prosperity, trade, opportunity, peace. Compare Imperial rule to what is happening now. Look outside. Is the world more peaceful since the revolution? I see nothing but death and chaos." - The Client from Season 1 of The Mandalorian

[@MPedich]

I can imagine someone saying this in the ruins of Berlin in 1945.

[@audreyharris7643]

@@MPedich me to

[@ravanpee1325]

​@@MPedichIt was true for Berlin for sure...Plans for Germania were over the top for sure a little bit

[@Bellasguy]

Werner Herzog's character. Powerful stuff.

[@cegesh1459]

Fashists are not realiable, or cultists.

[@kimarous]

I wonder how many instances there were of Outer Rim Imperials who join specifically to fight their local pirates, only to either get lost in the reeds or become so zealous that Rebel activity blurs into "just another pirate" to our one-time idealist. "Road to hell paved with good intentions" and whatnot.

[@TheRezro]

They absolutely should make movie about it. O wait about one told from side of CIS citizens.

[@slewone4905]

don't believe the rebel story. YOu know one of the Rebel general is a drug smuggler. heck atleast two were drug smugglers or other scoundrels.

[@godking]

If you are born on a wasteland world like Tatooine the empire is your best option for leaving the planet and making something of yourself.

[@TheRezro]

@@slewone4905 There is no black and white here. While it is true that Rebellion was commonly composed from criminals, terrorists and ex-CIS separatists. That doesn't make Empire vindicated. While there were some decent Imperial officers, most of them were doomed by corrupt nature of the Empire. What of course doesn't mean we can't have decent Remnant factions like Pellaeon's forces, what BTW was later part of New Republic. Not many people know but Captain Panaka was also a Imperial Moff. But most of decent fragments of the Empire rejoin New Republic in the end. What BTW explain also why First Order raised inside the New Republic.

[@oscaranderson5719]

@@slewone4905y’know a lot of rebels smuggled a very illegal substance: bacta. crazy amirite?

[@christophergillette7167]

I keep thinking about the Imperial Officer in Andor episode 6, who died trying to protect an innocent child from the psycho rebel pressing a gun to the kid’s head. The officer wasn’t a great person… but he still died for a child, while the worst of the good guys was acting like a monster

[@ButchererofRussia]

The Empire gave job to billions of being across the galaxy, including good man Gary. Damn, that guy was so reliable. Hope he and his family are still ok...

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

All Gary wants is to do his job, and be a good dad for his daughter.

[@datguy3581]

It's incredible what people are willing to overlook when it benefits them.

[@raybarry4307]

@@datguy3581 I'm afraid that comment will have to be reported to the ISB.

[@mycelia_ow]

The Galactic Republic did the same, just not as much but not all jobs are good.

[@013wolfwarrior]

Same

[@Bellasguy]

Agreed. The character played by Werner Herzog in the Mandalorian laid out a great case for the empire that would sell on any world living in chaos, trapped by crime lords, or just people forced to sit there and watch loved ones die of illnesses imperial medicine could cure or starving when the empire offers food. When you’re starving, ideology means nothing

[@dancingvalkyrie]

Too bad the Mandalorian is such a garbage show that it kills off that character and replaces him with shitty boring as fuck Gideon lol

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@dancingvalkyrieAnd made him the main antagonist of season 3 instead of bringing back Tyber Zann.

[@donaldfarquar]

You mean like on 70% of the earth today? Don't see anyone hear rising up to join the rebelion to help all the slaves that were forced to make our stuff? Or the kids burning our electronic waste to survive. People say the Empire is evil, they dont seem to realise we live in an empire even more evil and nobody even cares 😂😂😂

[@thekaxmax]

which is why empire-makers like creating more poor people.

[@tweektweak3274]

@@thekaxmaxask me how I know you’ve never read into a single empire in history

[@jayburn00]

One of my first computer games was tie fighter (a friend of mine had x wing). You fight rebels, pirates, and an attempted coup against the emperor. You serve under Vader, two imperial officers who turn traitor (one tried to join the rebels, the other wanted to replace palpatine), and Thrawn. You help end a system wide civil war and play the role of peacekeeper in some of the theaters of war. The intro that Star wars always starts with refers to the rebels as terrorists. In addition, there is a novella called the Stele Chronicles that further fleshes out your character and the events before and during the game. It really gives a reason why a person who was good might fight for the empire.

[@arrrchdukemax8192]

My second was classic Battleftont II: "We were establishing a new era, an era of order and peace". "By the time we landed on Yavin , whatever shock we'd felt at the destruction of the Death Star had been replaced by anger. For months we'd treated the Rebellion like a disobedient child.."

[@user-jr6bl9ih3e]

Like the dark side of the Force, the promise of order, security, and prosperity at any cost can be “very seductive”.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Giving in to fear. Giving in to anger. Giving in to hate. Giving in to a desire to make others suffer. Way, way too common and way too easy to see in a KZbin comments section.

[@DHBucsFan]

A good rendition of "the good German" which we also see playing out in other modern an even on-going conflicts around the world today, sadly. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - John Stuart Mill, 1867

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Which raises the very hard question of who the “good men” are because often they are the ones making evil triumph as well. Humility is critical to real benevolence.

[@OptimusMaximusNero]

Imagine George Lucas' reaction when he casually discovered while watching the news that the silly movie for kids he made quickly became one of the greatest box-office hits of all time. I would have literaly cried in triumph

[@arthurfrayn7619]

I bet he wasn't thinking: "This will definitely resurrect Star Trek. I hope we don't pick similar titles on a sequel".

[@audreyharris7643]

​@@arthurfrayn7619that happened?

[@arthurfrayn7619]

The Wrath of Khan and Return of the Jedi both had "revenge" in their working/possible titles and both dropped it out of similarity concerns (and revenge is not very Jedi).@@audreyharris7643

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

​@@audreyharris7643 Yes. Paramount saw the box office returns for Star Wars, remembered that they had their own sci-fi show that they could make money off of, and that's how we got the TOS films.

[@audreyharris7643]

@@eldorados_lost_searcher interesting

[@michael-m9kb]

I wish he would start a series where he is like a news reporter in the Star Wars universe reporting on the mining accident on alderaan

[@raybarry4307]

And Jedda. I kept telling them to have more inspections. But did they listen. Nooooooo

[@mycelia_ow]

There was something like that back in the day. It wasn't videos but posts that reported on various SW events as if it were a news agency in-universe.

[@ButchererofRussia]

Citizens: "WE WILL NEVER JOIN YOUR TYRANNY, PALPATINE" Palpatine: *Shows them the "Empire Today" recruiting video* Citizens: "It's great to be in the Empire Today, sir!" 😎

[@TheRezro]

In Putin's Russia...

[@user-jr6bl9ih3e]

Palpatine slides a piece of paper over the table with their starting six figure salary written on it.

[@Jacy-dx6dx]

Yo dudes...

[@jacksonabroad]

Which makes it fascinating. Is it still evil if it's efficient and competent?

[@jeanannd]

LOL. Palpatine: Show them also the educational opportunities the Empire will PAY for. Citizens: Oh, hey - this guy has our support.

[@baystated]

The Empire comes to your town looking like national or international brands. They look like they are adding service and value and choices but after all your town's local business are closed, the brand-companies start merging, going bankrupt or closing locations to impress shareholders. That's how your town get left with districts that are either soul-less or vacant. No banks, pharmacies, hospitals, theaters, restaurants, gas stations, preschools, ...

[@ScotttheCyborg]

I've met Tim Zahn many times. He's incredibly fan friendly AND what makes him even more lovable is that he will pull from his table any books being sold by independent dealers at conventions where he is a guest. He's helped me a few times when it comes to helping other con visitors having a bad time. A true gentleman.

[@andrewlim9345]

Your discussion of good Imperial characters like Ciena Ree, Kallus, and Iden Versio, and antiheroes like Thrawn and Ciena Ree reminds me of Hannah Arendt's analysis of the banality of evil. People would perhaps see analogies with the Empire in many real world governments and institutions.

[@billberndtson]

11:20 I kinda want to write a book called "Thinking for Yourself; A Step By Step Guide" but I'm not sure I can harvest enough irony to get it done.

[@toodlepop]

i imagine a man like galen erso. he probably didn't want to do what he was doing, but he was doing his best to not die (i can relate) and to stave off the enemy. and also trying to keep his family from dying. it's a hard pill to swallow.

[@cptsteele91]

Damn...seems when anyone tries to stop people from dying a whole mess of shit happens, they probably should stop doing that

[@Mandorain]

Does anyone remember how fast the old tie fighter game got you too be on the empires side? On the first mission you're just a tie fighter pilot doing traffic stops and rebels just show up to blow up your space station. It feels like you're fighting off a terrorist attack.

[@HD-mp6yy]

Because you are actually fighting a terrorist attack. The only fault of the Empire was Palpatine himself.

[@kevinpotts123]

"Welcome back to Generation Tech, my name is Alan" is my favorite way to start KZbin videos.

[@neofulcrum5013]

Their propaganda on a large scale unopposed was effective. Too bad the empire chose to flaunt its power brutally.

[@roguerifter9724]

It reminds me of my favorite of the few Imperial roleplaying characters I've played. His father was a Republic turned Imperial fighter pilot who got shot down by Separatist holdouts soon after the Imperial transition. He spent much of his pre OT career in engineering work, part of the design team for new fighters and such, and when he was flying a fighter he was facing either legitimate terrorists, the kind just as eager to shoot civilians as the worst Imperials, or pirates. Alderaan shook him but it also came just after his mother, a civilian starfighter designer for Sienar was killed during a Rebel commando raid so at this time his grief overode his horror at Alderaan's fate. He became a Frigate captain not long after Yavin but his ship was assigned to things like convoy escort, anti-pirate base operations, and system patrols so he was never put in a place where he was attacking non-combatants. In fact the main reason he didn't rise higher in the ranks, and get assigned a more powerful ship until after Endor was that in training exercises he was noted to favor minimizing civilian casualties over eliminating the enemy as efficiently as possible. Edit: What's funny is I played him in two different timelines. The one I described was the first and he rose through the ranks in the post Endor era eventually becoming a Moff when Palleon was running the Empire. In the other he met Palpatine shortly before Endor and the orders he received were so horrible he promptly defected.

[@robertdrash1105]

I actually really like narratives told from the Empire's side. That isn't to say I don't acknowledge they're in the wrong, but a lot of people that mean well can be ignorant of what they are actually doing. Hell I am a 40k fan, so I'm usually rooting for the Imperium which makes the GE look humane by comparison.

[@GenerationTech]

In the imperiums defense the threats they face are horrifying, the galactic empire without the yuuzhan vong is just fighting itself

[@robertdrash1105]

@@GenerationTech True. You know I think I would really like to see a Star Wars game featuring the Empire having to fight off something more monstrous. Maybe something like an Imperial Fleet getting stranded in the Unknown Regions and coming across a hostile force.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@robertdrash1105Old Republic has a storyline where Jedi and Sith fight together to overcome an even worse opponent, for example.

[@robertdrash1105]

@@Justanotherconsumer are we talking the Eternal Empire or a different threat?

[@samueldimmock694]

@@robertdrash1105 There's this one story with self-replicating robots trying to pull a modified "grey goo scenario" on the galaxy. This was during the Cold War, I believe, so same era, different threat.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

There’s a relatively recent movie, “Argentina, 1985” that takes on the story of the prosecutors that attempted to go after the military for their abuses during the Dirty War (spoiler alert - they succeeded, it’s kind of a big deal in Argentine history). I can imagine a New Republic equivalent where someone actually tries to hold the Moffs accountable and runs into similar resistance. Heck, you could probably do a shot for shot remake and the dynamics would be the same with “Good Imperials” defending the fallen Empire as necessary and worthy.

[@rubensfilho9774]

I have watched that movie and loved it

[@SwagbitoUchiha]

A video too many people definitely need to see.

[@seand.g423]

And none of those who _truly_ need to _will..._

[@GatchamanG4]

The first Star Wars book I read was Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire when it was published. ❤👍

[@BryceByerley]

I know....that also got the New Republic right. There was a lot of hope in that.

[@GatchamanG4]

@@BryceByerley 👍

[@indianajones4321]

Remember back when Allen praised the Empire as a pro-humanity form of government

[@earnestbrown6524]

As long as they still keep the dolphins in check they get my vote ... if we voted in the Empire.

[@lucagerulat307]

That was before people took him to serious.

[@FernandoMartinez-pv1id]

It often seems like those videos are ironic in nature.

[@charlebob4u]

I just can't get enough of your videos. The fact that you bring in modern-day themes, politics and culture, makes your videos so so interesting. I have commented this before, but the worst part of your videos is when they finish. Thank you so much for the amazing content as usual!!

[@laituelelefeon5006]

I love your videos so much! The breakdown of the lore makes it SO real EVERY SINGLE VIDEO!

[@wyattr7982]

As the late Michael Brooks would say “be ruthless to systems, be kind to people”

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

My counter-examples: Luke Skywalker. Wedge Antilles. Iden Versio from Battlefront 2, all the imperial deserters who joined the Rebels, that one imperial in Andor during Aldani who tried to save a child, Dr. Perkins from The Mandalorian, and many more.

[@ObligedUniform]

Every one of those except the Dr were also pre Operation Cinder when there could still be cases of 'good' people buying into the Empire potentially. ANYONE who stayed with the Imperial side when they saw/heard what they were doing during that Operation; were either the cowards who refused to speak up, or the zealots who relished in the cruelty encouraged by Palpatine.

[@jesserainbolt2166]

These Are Not Good Imperials, These Are Defectors. I Think The Point He Is Making Is That No Soldier Or Sailor Who Wishes To Just Live Normal Lives And Protect People Will Stay In A Government Like This Forever. In Fact The Good German Point Of Views Proves It, Usually German Soldiers Would Be Given Orders To Arrest, Imprison And Kill Any Jewish People They Find, And Yet Many People Would Like To Say The German Army Were Good People. The Truth Of The Matter Is That They Were The Fist Of Hitler And Nothing Hitler Wanted Accomplished Could Be Done Without The German Armed Services. The Old Saying That Evil Only Wins When Good People Do Nothing Is So True, Because Evil People Only Get What They Want By Government Force Or Criminal Force And If You Aid In That Willingly Or Willingly Ignore It. Nothing Changes And The Consequence That You Will Be The Next Target Of Government Like That Goes Even Higher. Don't Get Me Wrong The People And Soldiers Were Starving And Mostly Likely Afraid. But If You Go Along With This Type Of Government Usually What Happens Is A Draft Will Happen Or A Famine Will Occur Due To Government Policies. Sadly Even The Internal Reformer Will Usually Be Arrested Or Slowly Corrupted Over Time Until They Can't See Themselves In The Mirror Anymore. So No, There Are No Good Imperials, Just People Who Unknowingly Enable Or Support There Enemy

[@enderlionheart4497]

I'm a little surprised you didn't cover the _Allegiance_ novel a bit. A group of Stormtroopers who saw both sides of the coin of the Empire. Saw how cruel and sometimes evil the Empire could be, but on the flip side showed that there were a number of peoples' lives that were improved, a lot of planets that had been bettered.

[@samueldimmock694]

That's Legends, though. He'll use it if he has to, but where Canon examples will suffice, they will be used instead of Legends material.

[@enderlionheart4497]

@@samueldimmock694 Sure, but it's still a good example. And one where they _don't_ defect to the Alliance because they don't believe in them either.

[@samueldimmock694]

@@enderlionheart4497 Yeah, I really liked those books for a lot of reasons.

[@rexlumontad5644]

*thumbnail* A beautiful Imperial lady officer would encourage a huge swell of recruits joining the Empire.

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

I hate that stuff like that apparently works.

[@shanehudson3995]

Isn't working for the Army.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@shanehudson3995army doesn’t pay enough to be competitive with the private sector, and the economy, for all the wailing, is actually not that bad. When the economy plummets, the stability of public sector jobs suddenly becomes much more appealing.

[@marksluimers4241]

Like the Playstation Battlefront II add?

[@Jarsia]

Naive, lonely SW fans "I can save her"

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

The Fel Empire from the old EU is an example of how Imperials can be potentially “good,” or at least capable of improving their faction into a workable government where people could live normal, contented lives.

[@ObligedUniform]

And it only took nearly 60 in universe years and billions of lives lost (leaving aside the Vong) for the hubris of Palpatine and every Moff or Admiral who tried to take over after him barring Pelleon. I'd put my vote down for "not worth it" honestly.

[@arrrchdukemax8192]

I object, first steps were made by Zsinj, who'd formed an "Empire" based on alliances with freelancers and aliens. And Thrawn was an icon of loyalty, genius and passion for a new young generation of imperial officers, who joined the military after the Yavin or more important Endor - an alien without megalomania, dreadnoughts and superweapons, who required no glory, only concentration on victory over Rebellion, and brought more victories than any of human "superior warlords". Like Malgus once said: "That is how the Empire will prevail not only through superior armament, but through superior individuals" Jax's council of young blood was assembled to rule with help of high ranking aliens. Daala and Old Man finished what was unwritten truce by then: allowed aliens serve in military.

[@isaackim7675]

Speaking of Timothy Zahn, I would so love another Cannon trilogy of Thrawn’s exile on Peridea before the events of Ahsoka

[@simondodd918]

“A system that is shaped like a pyramid will always be ripe for power struggle.” What a remarkably acute observation with implications for our own pyramidal system.

[@Freesorin837]

"You are not immune to propaganda."

[@Arbidarb]

Just want to point out that the "good guy" Republic locked itself in a war with people that just wanted to govern themselves out from under Republic beaurocracy. They're by no means the Empire, but I wouldn't exactly say that they were a just organization.

[@0num4]

Complacency is the real culprit in most tyrannical situations. The ever encroaching jack boot is slow and methodical, and people tend to get complacent with everyday corruption and bureaucracy.

[@openfly4u]

There`s a Star Wars Manga about some kids becoming imperial officers. They IMO did the "good Imp" quite the justice. They even have an Alderaanian ON the Deathstar staff, watching the destruction of their planet. Really well done. The characters feel realistic and deeply complex with their motivations and the difference HOW you deal with things makes to your thought process. Edit: Manga is called "Star Wars: Lost Stars"

[@davydatwood3158]

I will admit that I usually don't watch your videos because I find they mostly repeat the bits of Star Wars I don't enjoy - the games, comics, and books that are semi-canon at best. (Disney can say what they like, it's clear that none of the showrunners or film directors feel bound by anything that didn't make it to the live-action screen. So claiming that the comics are "canon" is pointless.) The title on this one intrigued me, though, and what I've found is an incredibly well thought out and well-spoken reminder that it is so very, very easy for people on both sides of the political divide to get caught up in "group-think" and lose sight of the individuals involved. I hope people listen to this and take it to heart.

[@vikinglordsean]

Yes, the books and toys are what made my imagination go wild and made me fall in love with Star Wars as a kid in the early 90s. I never expected a prequel trilogy would actually happen in the form of movies and they blew me away as a kid into my teen years. I love everything from back then. Disney Star Wars could have captured that feeling if they had any clue what they were doing.

[@OptimusMaximusNero]

1:25 Am I the only one who finds hilarious AF that the cover of KOTOR has a random Selkath taking the spotlight with Bastila and Malak? Did BioWare have to accept sponsorship from Manaan or what? 😅

[@JohnWittle]

I literally spit a bunch of coffee all over my keyboard when I read this comment and now I'm worried that the next time I boot up my computer the keyboard will be all screwed up and it's your fault

[@user-yq9im9dk9z]

It's sus that Revan is nowhere to be found

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Their supply of kolto would have been cut off if they didn’t. Gotta keep that stuff coming.

[@user-jr6bl9ih3e]

Here's a question for Allen ... is it theoretically possible for there to be a "good empire"? Or are all empires by definition "evil"? What if someone like Thrawn had become emperor of the Galactic Empire?

[@Capsuleer7]

Theoretically, almost any form of government can be good. However they all fail when subjected to reality. The Good King is a great example. While he may be of faultless character, means, and rule he's still just a man. Even if time or circumstance does not corrupt him he'll eventually die. Their's no guarantee the heir will be as noble, or the one after. Eventually the Good Kings Kingdom will turn vile. Same goes for Empires, Republics, and so on. They remain good and well intended for a time but eventually the system becomes self serving, corrupt, and fails. Only to be replaced by an equally well meaning, good rule.

[@russianoverkill3715]

All of the Empires in Star Wars were evil regimes that were short lived, Republic on the other hand lasted almost since the beginning of the time line and always advocated for freedom.

[@kebasor]

​@@Capsuleer7The reality is that empires and governments represent power, and power attracts those who will use it. Every state will eventually have a leader who is not morally strong or evil, and the trick when forming the government is how well you build in the means to limit the damage they can do without hamstringing the good the best leaders have to do for it to function. An empire is very good when you have a good person in charge of it, but very hard to correct when you have someone like Palatine get the throne. Conversely, it is very easy to strip such a dictator of power in a system like the Republic, but it also limited how much Valorum could do to stop incidents like Naboo, and also made it easy to remove him for no other reason than popular opinion. The best systems try to be a balance between the two, where it is difficult to remove someone for unreliable reasons, but impossible for someone to remain in power if they have actually abused their position. This, of course, assumes the people responsible for upholding that system and safeguarding its ideals are doing their jobs as well.

[@samueldimmock694]

Thrawn was evil. Pragmatic, but evil. Pellaeon, on the other hand, was a pretty good Imperial, and did take over the Empire (well, Imperial Remnant technically) and reform it significantly. Of course, it ended up becoming a democracy for a while, before eventually transforming into the Fel Empire, which was a light-side theocracy as well as an empire and was probably pretty good until Darth Krayt took over.

[@NeSeeger]

@@russianoverkill3715 There was that one guy and his family that took the Very early republic on genocidal campaigns. The Jedi order had to take over the Republic govt until the Russan reformations and the Old republic was so corrupt that it universally gave up its power to Palpatine. The Republic, in the EU, has never had full control over the galaxy.

[@bored8321]

A long time ago, in a KZbin no longer here We used to support and believe the Empire were the good guys

[@rexlevitak1]

There is a reason why Lucas based the Emprie on the USA especially during the Vietnam war era . Just like the Empire the USA regularly committed atrocities and the few US soldiers who refused and stood up for what is right were basically blacklisted . We all know the story of the My Lai massacre and what happens to the heroes who stopped it . I feel it’s the same for the good Imeprials . The one who stood up for what was right found themselves blacklisted and alter in defected when there was an alternative

[@bobafett1313]

The thing about war is everyone commits atrocities. The Vietnamese were worse. Most American soldiers didn’t want to be there. They were drafted in. I’m not saying there weren’t bad soldiers however this narrative that America was evil during the Vietnam war is ridiculous. If you want to blame anyone blame the government for wanting the war. However I do get the premise of wanting to stop the spread of communism and prevent the South from being taken over. Anyway with Star Wars I see both the Empire and the Rebels as bad. That’s war for you.

[@jm6406]

@@bobafett1313 the vietnamese were defending themselves against an empire technologically superior who had incredible capacity to kill and maim them in brutal, inhuman ways. napalm alone is an atrocity far greater than anything any vietnamese rebel has done against the empire

[@kelvinsantiago7061]

The only ones that win in war are the worms who devour the corpses.

[@bobafett1313]

@@jm6406 you think the Vietnamese did nothing or that Americans did greater atrocities? Really? Water boarding, strappado, irons, beatings, dislocated limbs using rope, MIA soldiers, murder, kidnappings, they even raped not only American POWs but also South Vietnamese civilians. You seem to think that war is one sided and only one country can commit atrocities and oh boy how wrong you are. People like you are why American soldiers came home being spit on and treated like trash despite fighting against their will. Both sides committed atrocities and just blaming one side is childish and wrong. I’ll openly admit that there were terrible soldiers on the American side but that is every war in history. Pick any war and both sides do wrong.

[@slim420MM]

I assumed The Empire was based on The British Empire because the majority of Imperials shown on screen have British accents.

[@AskMia411]

I can’t find the time stamp, but I loved seeing a clip of SW: Visions used!!! I would love a series going into each episode of visions and analyzing the story and themes. I know it’s not canon or legends, but I loved so many of the stories it told.

[@Hailfire08]

I would love to see your takes on The Expanse

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The Expanse is way too realistic in how it portrays humanity. The hero is an idiot who basically saves the world(s?) by being stubborn and very, very, very lucky that it happened to work out.

[@johnfitzgeraldii1952]

Not only Spielberg, but Fox Studios exec Alan Ladd Jr. also believed in Star Wars.

[@HallimarRathlornStudios]

Oh my goodness, I am so glad someone is *finally* saying this. Granted, I'm not too deep into the community, but the amount of people who unironically glorify the empire and seek to justify its horrible, totalitarian methodology all for the sake of "security" and "economic stability" is insane, made worse by how much it reminds me a lot of real life. It's literally the same trap-logic that all dictators employ, but because it's Star Wars, it's cool and okay to unironically praise totalitarianism and downplay any alternative.

[@ryanlaurie8733]

Yes it's definitely problematic. To be fair the republic and new Republic were also pretty bad, but at least it's through inaction, not active subjugation. There's room for other's to act in their stead.

[@HallimarRathlornStudios]

@@ryanlaurie8733 Yeah, I totally agree that the Republics were pretty morally bankrupt and corrupt. What's scary, though, is that a lot of people use it as an excuse both in the fandom and IRL that totalitarianism must be the antidote. Not reform. Not even a revolution to place a new republic. Totalitarianism only. And it honestly makes me question the message Disney tries to send by making the New Republic inept beyond anything possible. There are real world reasons for their mistakes (like writing themselves into a corner with the First Order and the sequels), but it still sends an awful message: totalitarianism is the only answer, democracy is bad and always corrupt and uncool.

[@nightwolfnordberg9476]

I just like the uniform look of the empire and all of there cool stuff that is both simpel but cool like the tie line and there uniforms

[@mitsurusano6666]

You can't compare someone who likes the empire to someone who is nazi in real life, come on guys. I like the Empire because of his complex structure and for the imperial uniforms.

[@nightwolfnordberg9476]

@@mitsurusano6666 the uniforms are cool

[@mitchellcleveland6182]

Another banger of a vid!!! Keep them coming

[@chaucermcdoogle6011]

Fantastic takes as always, i think many fandoms need this talk lol. I love warhammer but too many see "Imperial Necessity" as a justification for how needlessly cruel the imperial government and its fiefdoms act.

[@chaucermcdoogle6011]

Although the very end goes into classic both sides rhetoric. Heres the thing man. Even in this fictional universe, reviving the Republic as is wasnt good enough. It collapsed again because too many said "well we mostly beat them time for peace". Meanwhile the corruption that allowed the Republic to fall the first time just takes root again, with space capitalism supreme once more. You have to actually create the egalitarian society you want, and allowing megacorps to assert control is the opposite. Why do businesses get to be little Feudal states? In real life or star wars?

[@audreyharris7643]

​@@chaucermcdoogle6011talking about both sides is interesting

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

Imperial Necessity only justifies some of what they do(such as having blowing up a planet as a last ditch method of denying malicious eldritch horrors claim of it), it doesn't justify the stuff that serves little to no purpose(or is grossly sub-optimal) in defending/providing for humanity.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@audreyharris7643it’s critical, too. Anyone who isn’t willing to see the problems of their own side is asking to become the very thing they hate. Oliver Cromwell, for an easy example.

[@audreyharris7643]

@@Justanotherconsumer good point

[@slowjamsliver7006]

We tell ourselves the same lies the Imperials do when it comes to country a lot of the time. We don't believe that something we believe in could to something bad even if it is pain to see. The pyramid comment at the end was spot on. When the peak and power is so high, there is really only time to try climbing it. People just play the game of thrones.

[@EpicMuttonChops]

this is a huge step for you, GT. i'm proud of you

[@718Anubis]

Great video! One that is thought provoking and really requires nuanced thinking.

[@simonthegun]

I was asleep and I felt a disturbince in the force and I knew it is gen tech always puting a smile on my face with his butiful face and explainetion

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Great video and even better message!

[@nerysghemor5781]

I've written some characters who are good people who, for various reasons, ended up with the Empire or First Order. Some of them were fed lies (especially the First Order ones who grew up in total isolation away from any other worlds or media), and others had really shitty circumstances that pushed them in that direction. They did still make a wrong choice but I do think it's good to remember that we need to get to know individuals in order to judge them appropriately. One of my Imperials ended up going to the First Order exactly because of being treated like shit in the New Republic even though he was an Imperial Navy doctor who did only normal doctor things and never killed or tortured anyone (and didn't like the medical divisions that did).

[@dustinporter1948]

I miss when even the stormtroopers were clones which was from the line in a new hope from Leia about look being short for a stormtrooper

[@anonymousdude9099]

Wow. I'm a GenX'er and watched this from start to finish. Well done!

[@hallarious506]

Dude, this video was far better made then it should have been. Kudos for all of the subtext.

[@macwade2755]

Great video Generation Tech!

[@crazyeyecarl]

What is the ship that has the ball in the middle with the flat panels extending above, and below it? Almost looks like an old satellite?

[@fritz404]

Any fictional faction that's humanity first is good in my eyes.

[@audreyharris7643]

Fair enough but what the empire does to aliens really isn't necessary

[@EyePatchGuy88]

​@audreyharris7643 the Xenos in the Star Wars universe are similar enough and reasonable enough to engage peaceably with humans. This is an anomaly within sci-fi. Contrast this with the Xenos in Warhammer, and ironically enough the best Xenos that Humanity has to face are probably the Orks.

[@audreyharris7643]

@@EyePatchGuy88 in Warhammer I mainly understand though I do remember imperium's hatred for them was social commentary on xenophobia/intolerance

[@Jeffery00cox]

It would be great if you could site the artists used in these videos. I'd love to look up their work.

[@OllamhDrab]

(Though as for previous franchises or 'franchises' by your definition, don't forget King Arthur and Robin Hood. Those also would fit that description. )

[@GenerationTech]

Good point

[@lerneanlion]

After watching this video, I have a question: Will Carthage make the great power of the Mediterranean than Rome? After all, we saw what the Roman Republic, and later, the Empire did to all peoples across the Mediterranean Sea. So will a trading empire such as Carthage be a better alternative? I asked this question because if neither the Republic or the Empire are the right options that can pleased everyone, can a trading space empire similar to Carthage be the better alternative?

[@Realitycheckm8]

5:20 "Electronic arts would surprisingly contribute something positive to the world. Something it rarely ever does anymore." *THE TRUTH*

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Most people in the empire probably didn't consider the fact that many citizens on alderaan likely didn't want anything to do with the rebellion.

[@michaelhorn6029]

I am fascinated with your descriptions of political realities. Qualities of chaos and violence competing with qualities of discipline and rationality. "Chaos clowns" nice! I want to use that phrase in future.

[@nicholasburns7970]

Star Trek and Doctor Who come s very close to achieving this with "fan fiction" comics, short stories in magazines and annuals , audio plays and much more. All before 1977.

[@generalveers9544]

I always love how Alan’s videos tend to segway into real life sociology. Makes it my favorite Star Wars channel without a doubt

[@donaldrussell9406]

Beautiful work.

[@captironsight]

I want a show that shows a kid who's village gets saved by the Empire from Bandits, who falls for the idea of the Empire and joins the Imperial army. Then he rescues a few villages and feels heroic. After a few battles, and building up strong bonds with his unit, they start doing morally questionable raids. He/she then slowly comes to question the Empires methods, but still believes that he/she can do more good by bringing order than rebelling. The flawed, conflicted hero concept can bring a grey, more nuanced look at the individuals that make up the Empire. Andor shows how not all Rebels were clean and heroic. Now tell the opposite side.

[@russianoverkill3715]

So you want Nаzi propaganda made into show?

[@captironsight]

@@russianoverkill3715 Two responses for you: 1) Why aren't you on the frontlines of the 3 day operation? 2) What happened at Tianammen Square June, 04 1989.

[@russianoverkill3715]

@@captironsight quit changing the subject and being rасist or russоphobе whatever, why do you want a show about loyal nаzis?

[@captironsight]

@@russianoverkill3715 Shut up Ivan.

[@NeSeeger]

@@russianoverkill3715 Those shows are interesting sometimes. Blame the allies for the rise of the Nazi party in the 1920s.

[@Delta_3VIII]

That's what I always loved about Star Wars just replace the Empire with any "Bad Guy" State/Organisation especially of the 20th century (👀) and you'll have a near perfect filter to find philosophical Folks. 😅

[@mattt233]

Ciena knew the Empire was wrong but she was raised in a culture that believed in oaths. She swore an oath to the Empire and wasn't about to break it. She thought that at some point she would be in a high enough rank that she could change things. But unfortunately it was not to be.

[@tomcopple7633]

Another factor to consider would be the narrative being told with the facts. In The Alphabet Squadron, the main was originally an imperial pilot wanting to defect. But every Imperial crime, or atrocity, would be placed as a harsh be reasonable reaction to Rebel action in the area. After awhile, she was fighting for her squad mates, and accepted that most of the Rebels were responsible for the problems.

[@Nervete]

The "Reality is relative/meaningless" rhetoric comes entirely from the philosophies imposed by the college system. I have to deal with the majority of voices around me constantly trying to convince me that nothing is real and nothing matters, and it is quite annoying.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Rooted in the cogito, which is a critical thing to understand because so much of what we take for granted often isn’t true. That there has to be a strict hierarchy with a king at the top? False. That cancer is untreatable and is an automatic death sentence? False. That the earth is flat? False. Wisdom begins in the humility of rejecting assumptions and the arrogance to reject what those in power told you to believe. Colleges teach it for a very good reason.

[@Nervete]

@@Justanotherconsumer You misunderstand the impact. What may have begun as a desire for critical thought has led to a conformity of nihilism. Nobody is curing cancer with the belief that all things are dust in the wind, or at least, nobody who wouldn't have done so faster without that belief. Those who would have benefitted from these teachings and expanded them into free thought left the academia sphere and used what they gained, but those who hyper-fixated on the ideas and failed to understand them are the ones that stayed and taught the next generation of students, and we have been caught in that feedback loop for almost 30+ years. The fact of the matter is, what the professors are saying is now so foolish in application that I can actively ignore it, and for that very reason, produce better projects that recieve higher scores than the entire class, scores given from the very professor who I am ignoring. This is not a hypothetical, this has been my real, honest experience every semester for the past 7 semesters, and this current semestester is already shaping up the same way. The humanities have been poisoned. The system needs flushed with new life that rejects these flawed, so called "critical" paradigms that are nothing but extraordinarily hypocritical excuses to feel justified in doing nothing. They are fruitless weeds that consume all potential brilliance in their path.

[@zzzxxc1]

@@Justanotherconsumer St. Thomas Aquinas in the middle ages knew the Earth was round, the ancient greeks knew it, etc.

[@Watcher-ts3ql]

Ah man GenTech is playing both sides here. First he tells us why Alderaan was a legitimate military target and why the empire was right and now he switched sides!

[@jeremiahmorris1852]

He plays devils advocate. It's possible to support one side, but not gloss over its flaws

[@audreyharris7643]

​@@jeremiahmorris1852thank you

[@zogar8526]

Either you didn't watch the video, or are just joking. Either is possible. But he definitely didn't say alderan was a legit target.

[@Watcher-ts3ql]

@@zogar8526 I was joking of course. Unfortunately YT-comments can‘t make one hear the ironic way one says things.

[@zogar8526]

@Watcher-ts3ql sadly, many people will look at just a title and come say something like this. Your comment leaned more toward joking, but I've seen so much worse said seriously so can never be sure.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Hilarious of Palpatine claiming that the Empire will last for a thousand years yet it fell to the Rebel Alliance shortly after a decade.

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

A New Hope takes place 19 years after the rise of the Empire. Then it actually fell several years later.

[@NeSeeger]

In the EU it lasts about 150 years, after some fracturing and reformations, joining the Galactic Federation Triumvirate.

[@markwells3289]

"If we look more closely, we see that any violent display of power, whether political or religious, produces an outburst of folly in a large part of mankind; indeed, this seems actually to be a psychological and sociological law: the power of some needs the folly of others. It is not that certain human capacities, intellectual capacities for instance, become stunted or destroyed, but rather that the upsurge of power makes such an overwhelming impression that men are deprived of their independent judgment, and...give up trying to assess the new state of affairs for themselves." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer (Letters and Papers from Prison)

[@smartass0124]

You talk how separatist treated their driods but first Episode of rebels Calis Treated a Storm trooper the same Grevious would treat a battle

[@CascadiaFlow]

12:21 What are your values, and do the leaders you support share those values? Or are they pursuing power for the sake of power?

[@Boringspy]

14:04 those damn dolphin sympathizers!

[@dreadwing01]

What do you think of director Sharmeen Obaid and the direction she wants to take our beloved Star Wars?

[@saebianmyint8641]

Generation tech: top 10 good imperials Also generation tech: they don't exist

[@datguy3581]

Not every imperial is malicious. Every imperial contributed to the machine that carried out oppression and genocide though.

[@ShadowReaper-pu2hx]

The officer in the thumbnail could easily make me an Imperial.

[@DininDalael]

Is she an actual character from one of the shows?

[@ShadowReaper-pu2hx]

@@DininDalael, not that I know of.

[@falkyrie5228]

That's why Dedra Meero works. She is compelling, human and sometimes you'll even catch yourself rooting for her, but she's still undeniably evil.

[@Otterdisappointment]

I’ve always had the angle of people that don’t even know they’re in a totalitarian or fascist regime they’re just doing their same routine no matter their occupation. These kinds of people may or may not receive the news of atrocities and discredited madness from the regime after it’s removed just like you or I would.

[@peregry]

Alan, you're kinda forgetting another "Star" series that exploded in popularity that began about a decade before Star Wars, that saw multiple authors writing stories in it both in its first canon and later novel series... and also kinda created the entire modern concept of "fandom" and many of the terms you use everyday in discussion, originating both the terms "Mary Sue" and "Slash fic" among many, many other things in fan fiction, and also was arguably one of the biggest media rivals to Star Wars that also saw a massive boom in the 1980s and 90s up through the 00s before and alongside the re-release of the original Trilogy and the Prequel trilogy. I speak, of course, of the other Great American Space Opera: Star Trek.

[@ModernJedi83]

what is the name of the song playing at 6:40

[@histguy101]

Timothy Zahn writes all of the heroes as angsty teens who are flippant to everyone, rude, and petty, and super annoying. Well, except Luke. Hes an angsty teen, but he mostly just thinks his angst in between quoting Yoda lines.

[@TheTurtlebot]

Lost stars underrated book I got it one Christmas randomly and it was actually gas

[@Necrolord76]

I still have my copies of the original Thrawn novels. I even have the comic books.

[@smartass0124]

Did you see a what if video if yoda actually killed palpatine and Targin Became empore

[@shasvrefirios1536]

Ohh that sounds like a great what if. Have the link?

[@markgrehan3726]

The good Imperial does exist, you just had to be the right type and at the right place. And it had to be true if only for a moment otherwise it would have never lasted as long as it did, even though it didn't last that long at all basically a mere blip in the history of the Star Wars galaxies.

[@levierickson7321]

You do one Hell of a job, Allen. One Hell of a job