Why this Dark Era of the Jedi Order was so Corrupted and NEEDED to burn down

[@veryfitting]

"The jedi order went under a series of reforms in fear of the dark side" yet Yoda said "fear leads to the dark side" so it failed at beginning by its own definition

[@Noxidsignorantia]

Hippocracy and Jedi go hand in hand ✋

[@InventorZahran]

The Jedi Order became the very thing it sought to destroy.

[@ohg_robago8680]

The hipocracy of Jedi know no bounds, only a Jedi will kill a whole room full of people and then try to apologize for it.

[@hitandruncommentor]

Well not exactly. In kotor 2 it’s shown the Jedi becoming much more like legends Jedi, embracing emotion and connection rather than rejecting it. The problem to be blunt was Yoda. He ruled for too long and was born into a galaxy still suffering from the scars of the Sith wars. Since by the time the order needed to change yoda was already beyond question so people didn’t and yoda being of such an age didn’t see things begin to corrupt, though this was likely due in part to the line of Bane. In essence the Jedi of old failed to learn the complete lesson, to be proactive, to embrace love, to not go immediately to violence when opposed. This is why I’m legends Luke’s order is shown to be what the Jedi were meant to be.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

The Jedi CANNOT BE philosophically correct, because the foundation of Jedi philosophy is hypocrisy.

[@kiyanhakim384]

Shout out to that one time the jedi killed themselves off through infighting and not the sith 😂

[@paolopesare3566]

Lol, true. in Kotor 1&2 the "Sith" are actually fallen Jedi and former republic military 😂

[@kingofnorthumbria]

lmao, if ya think bout it, Obi-Wan and Luke in the first movie, kinda mimic the siths rule of two 🤣

[@starkillerab1582]

Oh well at least they didn’t eat the people they killed can’t say the same for the Sith

[@gothicpunkemo14]

@king of northumbria Not exactly. They are simply playing the roles of Master and Apprentice, in a time that there are almost no jedi left living. More circumstantial than anything. if they were mimicking the rule of two, they would have killed off all of the other Jedi.

[@gothicpunkemo14]

After all, the main difference between a jedi master/jedi knight relationship and the Sith rule of two relationship is literally that one side believes they need to murder all of their "competition" to have the strongest connection to the force.

[@michealball1896]

The Jedi philosophy was an next to impossible too achieve. They used peer pressure to try and inforce it, but kept getting edgy school shooters.

[@Fleechin]

RIP to the only guy of Yoda's species who talked normally

[@Spartan3D213]

And the one in swtor who sounded like Winnie the Pooh.

[@bloodyneptune]

_Was_ he the only one though? Or do they all talk normally and that's absolutely a choice Yoda made?

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@bloodyneptune there's a thought that yoda loves messing with people and uses it as a way of training patience

[@arganelichens1713]

Is it something about the force that might affected Yoda species to talk weirdly 😂?

[@thargs9184]

Good Old Master Vrok

[@crazyviking24]

This was the period (mandalorian wars) when 5 jedi masters tried to murder their apprentices and succeeded in killing 4 of them. I think that you should do a video on that part in relationship to the corruption of this period as I think one of the masters was a jedi master mostly because his mother paid off the council.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Agreed. The first watch circle was hilariously removed from the orders traditions, born out fanatism, fear and trauma of Krynda and failed to grasp the often symbolic nature of force visions. But I do like the arc Lucien went through and where he ended up.

[@stardragon7893]

They were murdering Padawans before Anakin made it cool.

[@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc]

Do you really ever expect Geetsly's to do a video that honestly covers the Jedi Because if you do?

[@jamiewalsh3349]

Revan: Can you please stop the Mandalorians. Jedi Order: No. Revan: Please. Jedi: No. Revan: Please. Jedi Order: No Revan: OK you can all go suck it.

[@bigj1905]

Jedi: “What the hell did we do to you?”

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

Jedi Order: *surprised pikachu face

[@enoughothis]

To be fair Kreia was puppeteering everyone pretty hard during the events of KOTOR 2, all for her own goals.

[@gavinsmith9871]

And in the end, she literally orchestrated her own defeat because she thought she could use the force to destroy itself.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

But what if her fall was all part of her plan? Seriously, that woman (and the same might go to Vergere as well) is still ambiguous in my own eyes.

[@gavinsmith9871]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Her plan was to destroy the Force to "free" everyone. She failed. Not achieving her goal could not be part of her plan.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

She's a really good liar. Besides, her becoming the enemy would have meant that the Exile would have had something to fight against in the very end, all while Kreia's teachings have finally succeeded in being spread upon the galaxy while the old ideas die out... that is, until the newer teachings also die out millennia later.

[@JC-zj2is]

@@gavinsmith9871 she also wanted to kill the “old” way’s of the jedi order, she wanted her old pupil’s dead, and wanted Surik to create a new jedi order with her teaching’s.. maybe her “killing the force” was a bluff so that The Exile would be forced to kill her.

[@TetsuShima]

Kreia: *Kills the last members of the Jedi Council* Meetra: "What motive did you have to do such inhuman thing, Kreia?!" Kreia: "A simple mind like yours would never understand" *45 years ago* Kreia: "Hey, Ulic! Would you like to take a walk with me through the Enclave?" Ulic: "Thanks for your offer, Kreia. But I have to do some "Jedi stuff" with Nomi right now" Kreia: "Oh, ok. Good luck, anyway!" Ulic: "Bye" *Goes away* Kreia: "This Jedi apathy is just killing me..."

[@pocketmarcy6990]

Those are strong words coming from the person who destroyed two whole fleets with the push of a button

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Nomi's a really good witch when it comes to her looks.

[@iang257]

Mandalorians: *invading the galaxy and fucking everything up* Jedi: I sleep Sith: *Have the audacity to exist* Jedi: R E A L S H I T

[@Charlie94781]

The Jedi are superpowered douche bags

[@gavinsmith9871]

To be fair the Sith tend to make everyone's day ten times worse whenever they're around.

[@xriegle]

I wonder how the Jedi of the prequel era would react if a small group from the Sith species, (but not members of the Sith order!) revealed themselves.

[@allenbettis8558]

@@xriegle Probably: GENOCIDE!!!

[@mandoad1841]

@@gavinsmith9871 the sith were born from the jedis failure. Both are often called 2 sides of the same coin. Both the strongest and most successful orders of their respective sides. One could not exist without the other. Much like the light and dark. They were just another of the jedis mistakes. And the worst with how much death they caused for thousands of years.

[@TheRevanchrist]

As Traya stated, paraphrasing, if the council learned anything from the Great Sith War, the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, then they just kept learning the wrong lessons.

[@gamerboy6787]

I hated Atris so damn much. Unbelieveably self-righteous and condescending. Nothing was ever her fault, it was always others who fell short, yada yada. The fact that she wears all white is the first clue to her self-righteousness.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

The First Jedi Purge was a terrible time, the Old Sith War destroyed the Jedi Homeworld, with the Mandalorians Wars being a fresh wounds to the Republic’s relationship with the Jedi, and Jedi Civil War weakening the Jedi Order. The Sith Under Darth Traya were so close in destroying the Jedi Order not with open conflict, but with bounty hunters, assassins, and dark arts and Magic’s that were so close to the destruction of the Jedi Order. In truth this was the Darkest time for the Jedi Order, and if it were not for Jedi Exile then the Jedi Order would not survive. Ironically the Jedi High Council were correct that a Dark Force was organizing a massive plan to destroy both the Republic and Jedi, and no doubt that the Sith Emperor would have enjoy the destruction of the Jedi Order three hundred years before his inevitable return to the wider Galaxy.

[@bowgamer1004]

The comment section is supposed to be full of memes

[@madisonsosa21]

Darth Traya is so interesting, and her philosophy on the Force

[@ninjadejedi]

I think he miss the part that Revanist felt right into the plans of the Sith Emperor and result in the Jedi became to weak to protect the Republic when the actual Sith came back. And the fault lied at the Republic at the begining for not fighting against the Mandalorian in the first place.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

@@bowgamer1004 yupp

[@MartinTundra]

That's all because Jedi Order were actually Dark Jedi and Jedi Code is so flawed that you must understand why Darth Vader let live the all Grey Jedi because read their code and it's proper Jedi Code. So Jedi order after Vader purge was back to its original ideas and that's why Vader has shown he is really Anakin and still believes that The Force can't be evil, and darkside or lightside is still The Force. And Dark Jedi betrayed The Force so Order of The Sith hated and despised Dark Jedi so much as traitors and liars. So purge of Jedi needed to happen and those like Ahsoka or Yoda or Kenobi were true Jedi at least according to Anakin who all together WAS The Chosen One and he actually brought the balance of the force by restoring the original ideas of Jedi Order. That's why we see him in Kenobi series as Anakin, in remastered Return of The Jedi as Anakin Force Ghost and so on. Force Ghosts don't dissolve into The Force, he later kills Snoke as Force Ghost while you think it was Kylo Ren or Rey to save them both from too powerful Dark Jedi Vampire entity. I actually believe that Anakin appeared earlier as Revan and so on. That's because we are all immortal, we just stick to the idea of material body too much. May The Force be with You.

[@chumchum3803]

This is why the KOTOR 1-2 plot is arguably better than the actual movies And its a couple video games from like 20 years ago

[@avzed1789]

More like 1.5 games. 2 was rushed and rather chopped down. But that just goes to show how some damn good writing can carry a game.

[@chumchum3803]

@@avzed1789 yeah that is the sad truth bout kotor 2, but the fact that the game is so good and still hold up today says something givin the proper time table, it couldve easily been the best SW game ever. I mean the game was way ahead of its time

[@mallemarkus153]

@@avzed1789 thank God there was the team of TSL restored content mod, who made it into a dev approved, somewhat complete (and far more enjoyable) game

[@SpazMonkeyxd]

Shout out to the Masters who murdered their pad ones because of a force vision

[@InventorZahran]

Luke Skywalker: "Great idea. Imma try that on Ben..."

[@mobiletaskforceepsilon1172]

I think it was called 'Padawan Massacre'

[@koharumi1]

Jedi masters: This Padawan mence is going to be the death of me.

[@TetsuShima]

The KOTOR 2 Era can be resumed in this simple way: Atton Rand: "I am hilarious and you will quote everything I say"

[@Spartan3D213]

Kreia; influence grained kreia;Influence lost.

[@benjaminbierley2074]

Meatbags

[@amanzeihedioha]

How many iconic oneliners?

[@92HazelMocha]

*PURE PAZZAK*

[@thargs9184]

"When a woman fall to the dark side..you better space yourself" still the most memorable considering he was certain revan was a woman and mitra a male XD how the lore changed and made Atton look like a fool even more XD

[@danielbeck2739]

I honestly think Meetra should have never returned to the council on Dantooine after how they treated her. Put it simply they were so blind to what was going on that any help she could even offer would be null and void as they would seek to probably hurt her once more thinking some how she's part of the problem. Hell if I were her and I got a list of who would be there I'd tell them to piss off and they can fix this mess on their own since they "obviously" knew what was going on. And before you say I'm vindictive, you're right. And quite honestly she'd have every right to be after that. I have my own issues with the Jedi Order when it comes to their code and their actions, but during this period I'd say it was at the height of stupidity.

[@HandleDisliker]

My take on Meetra Surik's return was that the wound she carried had such an emotional impact that she sought the Jedi's "perscription," if you would, and when they gave it to her she took it and fulfilled it, which to me is why she (seems to) still look at the Jedi with esteem and seeks them out to balance the force.

[@mitchellhayward6492]

You need to remember that the whole reason she decided to search for the other Jedi in the first place was because she was being hunted by the Sith. Understandably, she believed that a united front against a common enemy was the best chance for any of them. A *big* part of her motivation for finding and uniting what was left of the council was to figure out a way to stop the Sith.

[@danielbeck2739]

I understand reasoning, my point was that she was honestly better off not showing given who was there and the history they had. Would have been better off not showing or finding other open minded members who could have taken what she provided, done their own investigation to better add more context, and then bring it to the council members rather then her as chances are their word might have carried more weight then Meetra's in their eyes as it's clear they had no trust in anything that came out of her mouth. Again that is also based on previously established history given the mannerisms and overall attitude directed at her.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

Yupp the jedi ordrer frome the Sith war to the clone wars was idiots, the only accuntly good jedi ordrer was the one Luke maked

[@mateuszslawinski1990]

@@danielbeck2739 Right after "chapter one" AKA Peragus, she knew two things: Sith are after her and she needs all the help she can get AND supposedly all the Jedi are dead. Obviously she didn't have much of a choice and had to ask for help those who survived. Sadly, all Jedi masters who survived happened to be... failures.

[@z-man1237]

Damn, the Jedi just couldn’t get a break in KOTOR at all. They either got destroyed by enemies or by themselves

[@julianG1212]

Lol communism sucks

[@AsperaZeit]

@@julianG1212 geez shut up

[@baconboi4482]

@@AsperaZeit he isn’t wrong tho

[@julianG1212]

@@baconboi4482 thank you bacon

[@mpnuorva]

Almost like they were being written by people who don't like Jedi...

[@musicwarrior7630]

Personally I like individual Jedi but detest the order itself. On practice the Jedi seem to achieve more as individuals or small groups but the order itself while with good ideals and intentions they fail to upkeep them and fall into hypocrisy and suffer from inaction. Maybe it's the will of the force that when the Jedi orders get to a specific height and fall when the sith grow few. After all true balance is not too light nor too dark. A healthy mix of both creates balance in anything

[@ЖамекЖамек-н6ч]

What kind of hypocrisy? The presence of the Dark Side is already a violation of the balance, the balance in the force is not the balance between the dark and the light side, but the absence of the Dark Side. The Dark Side by its very existence creates Chaos in the Force

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

Nope, because the light IS the balance and the dark is the corruption of the force (and it's the canon lore, balance of the force isn't achieved through a bit of of light and a bit of dark, it's a fanfic misconception). The problem with the Jedi order isn't that they only seek the light, it is that they've failed on many occasion to find the actual path that leads to the light and unknowingly worked against it. In the case of KOTOR for instance they thought that neutrality was the way of the light and balance while in fact by their inaction they allowed chaos and violence to spread. They thought that stopping the Mandalorian would lead to the dark side while it was actually the exact contrary, it allowed the dark side to grow. The Jedi who went with Revan to stop the Mandalorians were the true defenders of the light side, and if some fell to the dark side like Revan it's because the Jedi Order rejected them and left them face the atrocities of war alone.

[@jeremyallen5974]

​@@kathleendelcourt8136 It's like a pendulum. Leaning too far in either direction will have disastrous consequences for the people in the middle

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

@@jeremyallen5974 It's not how it works. The force isn't a Ying, Yang dichotomy.

[@jeremyallen5974]

@@kathleendelcourt8136 And the 'kill the shit out of the other guy' mindset is better?

[@rebeldropper8933]

Meetra Surric is 1 of my favorite Jedi ever after being exiled and using the abomination weapon (mass shadow generator).Just to come back stronger then ever. Actually snuck into Drummond Kass to free Revan who was sitting rotting on his own filth in Dart Nyris' dungeon. The end of the novel is tragic but i will always fight for those that dont have the means to. She was righteous and powerful in all the right reasons! Thank you Geetlys!

[@EricVornoff]

The scene where Kreia strips the force from the Jedi High Council is bliss.

[@1trushadowclw642]

Yeah it's such a good story line. That could be a great movie

[@MrEvers]

That novel did her dirty though. The woman who defeated some of the most twisted Sith and rebuild the Jedi order

[@goldeagle6431]

The Senate believed the Jedi needed to burn down, including its younglings.

[@peacekeeper1413]

For all there code states the Jedi always seem to be fearing many things

[@TheSmokeyDawn]

I still love the fact that the Jedi order was reborn from the tortured souls the Exile found, trained and mentored. This handful of beings, even with the disappearance of their leader, rose up and reconstructed it all.

[@Ben-Ken]

This whole story arc would make a hell of a "Game Of Thrones" style series. It can't properly be told in PG rating. Star Wars really needs an adult division.

[@thargs9184]

thats a dream destined to die before it even see the light of days under Disney..thats just the sad reality of the evil mouse..

[@InventorZahran]

All of the Sequel Trilogy films were rated PG-13, so this idea could probably be done under the same rating. If I'm interpreting the ratings system correctly, the only reason to raise it to an R would be for nudity, explicit sexual activity, swearing, or excessively brutal violence. Nudity and sex are not present in this story, and Star Wars has its own vocabulary of fictional profanity words, so those problems are already solved. And as we've seen in the sequels and Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars can get really violent and somehow not receive an R rating. So at least in theory, it's conceivably possible that Disney could do this without making it an "adults only" thing.

[@masc6287]

If they did make it into a series which do you think would be better: Live action or animated. I'd prefer a 3D animated series that uses a realism style like in one of the Star Wars Visions episodes on Disney Plus. This would allow them to have more complex and artistic settings that encapsulates the old republic style and allow for more complex fight choreography that you would not be able to pull off in a live action series. Plus the animation would allow them to present all the unique force powers & technology of the era on full display while live action would avoid it due to budget and clashing with the visuals.

[@Ben-Ken]

@@masc6287 I agree with all those points. I was thinking state of the art game CGI.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

@@masc6287 I totally argee, the animated series look and fells 100× better that the movies

[@lordgaude4251]

It’s like the Jedi are their own worst enemy.

[@sisigs4820]

This council was even more corrupt then the one in clone wars. At least most of the council actually tried to protect innocents by fighting in the war. These guys just sat there and did nothing out of fear.

[@ramonfernandomirandanoguei365]

What about Brianna the Handmaiden? She also became a Jedi under the tutelage of Meetra Surik!

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

We agree with you Brianna gives us information about her mother Arren Kae, Kreia's Jedi name. She is just like Luke Skywalker trying to become a Jedi to honor her mother's legacy, unbeknownst to her, her mother walk away from that when she saw truth on both sides. With Brianna we can see how fully corrupt Atris is, and her half sisters evils were breeding when their loyalty to Atris and their resentment to their younger half sister turning them in agents to the dark side. With Brianna she makes more sense in the story than Mical.

[@declanhandley-byrne4335]

It seems like this iteration of the Jedi Council was just as dogmatic as the one in the Clone Wars, but in a different way

[@InventorZahran]

Atris was essentially living the galactic equivalent of the Goth/Emo lifestyle. Surrounding herself with symbols of darkness, but not necessarily being a member of the group that those things symbolized.

[@InventorZahran]

Anyone who knows more about those lifestyles than I do, feel free to correct any misconceptions I may have made here.

[@concept5631]

Except goth/emo people are (mostly) pretty chill and respectful compared to whatever Atris is.

[@Allronix]

Geetsly's: We stan the Jedi! We can totally justify their child conscription, their brutal psychological abuse and social isolation, their training and use as glorified living weapons... Bioware, Obsidian, and Dark Horse: Yeah. Hold our beers while we check the list. Dark Horse: We got a group of Jedi slaughtering their own Padawans on the basis of a half baked vision. We have them scratching their asses while the Republic burns. Looks like they may have covered up a genocide here as well.... Bioware: Oh, we have them turning a brain damaged POW into a glorified assassin droid and sending them against their best friend with the hope they kill one another. And as a test, we goaded one of our most promising and dedicated Padawans into a senseless rage, tricked her into thinking she killed her own master, and left her to rot out in our meditation grove. Don;t worry, her master's gonna be okay. But wouldn't this make a FANTASTIC test for our mind wiped Sith Lord? If she dies, no big loss. If she doesn't, we can break our arms congratulating ourselves on double redemption! Obsidian: Um...let's see. How about...Oh! We kick out the only one of Revan;'s crew who crawled back asking forgiveness and show them "mercy" in the form of kicking them out with nothing but the clothing on their back while keeping it all hush hush about our soiled underwear because we do NOT understand what they are. Oh, and one of our high council members decides to wipe out all of her peers to try and reshape the Order in her own image...while taking advice from a room of Sith holocrons. Good luck, Jedi stans! Geetsley's: And...we got nothing.

[@jeremyallen5974]

Don't forget their blunder with Anakin "We treated the kid like trash the whole time he was with us and he had the AUDACITY to sign on with a Sith Lord?! How could he do such a thing?!!?"

[@bait644]

"Light good, dark bad" dogma kills off both orders so often. The Sith are used to their order dying and coming back while the Jedi are constantly living (mostly) lavished lives. Like two children fighting over a parents love, they are just ripping themselves and the Force apart and the only breather the Galaxy has is when they are both too wounded to fight each other. Since the Jed-ah split, they both are the embodiments of what they hate in the other. Sith hate the Jedi for being ruthless in their rules and secular study of the Force, and the Jedi hate the Sith for being arrogant and self-centered. The incredible irony is that the Jedi are arrogant and this nearly breaks them and clearly did before. While the Sith are so rigid in their teachings that it's only extreme or not at all for them. Reject the orders, return to Jed-ah. 🤣

[@92HazelMocha]

Yes.

[@deacon6221]

There is no light side and dark side of the force, there is just the force.

[@gavinsmith9871]

Nah, the Darkside really is bad. Failure to simply accept that fact is what leads Jedi falling in the first place. Notice how every time one of them thinks "oh it won't happen to me, I'm not going to go too far" or "I'm doing it for a good reason" they turn out just like every other bloodthirsty Sith Lord? Ya that's not a coincidence.

[@deacon6221]

@@gavinsmith9871 yeah every time someone uses dark side powers they hurt the force itself

[@gavinsmith9871]

@@deacon6221 More like the Force enslaves them. Because the more you try and fight life itself the more it will adapt to destroy its enemies.

[@EricVornoff]

Anybody else notice the similarities between Reverend Mother Mohiam from Dune and Kreia? The part in KOTOR II on nar shaddaa where Kreia teaches you to feel the echoes in the force around you is a concept in the 'Orange Catholic Bible' from Dune. Also, the way she wants to kill the force so people aren't slaves to its will, in Dune they did the same thing only except for the force, it's AI (thinking machines, any machines that counterfeit a human mind)

[@Riftrender]

Personally I found the random changing their mind and turning against the Exile to be poorly written.

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

They were alone with Vrook for a while. That bastard got into their heads.

[@Karlos1234ify]

Anakin: Hey, I’ve seen this one!

[@clonecoric4140]

Atris is the only being more bitter than a Star Wars fan.

[@92HazelMocha]

Surik: It’s not too late Atris, come back to the light Atris: Everything after the original trilogy was a mistake! Disney ruined StarWars! Empire Strikes Back is the only good StarWars film! Surik: I will do what I must.

[@goodmind4940]

@@92HazelMocha it's kinda true

[@jameskosusnik1102]

Redditor*

[@arielortiz5643]

I would like a video for everyone of them 😁 Aside from that, I think that Atris may be the most annoying of all the jedi, but if you think about it, she is the more human of them and the one who did more to try to solve the problem. Her bitterness actually towards the exile came from envy, as she recognized at some point that Surik was right and the council wrong. Her fall to the darkside is understandable, as she was a member of the council who thought that she did everything by the book and still failed. Compared to the psychotic final confrontation of the jedi council on Dantooine, who still blamed all their mistakes to Surik after she saved everyone in their respective planets, it seems that her thoughts were more connected to the reality than all the others. By that time, she was seduced by the darkside (and Kreia helped in that) and thought that killing Surik would be her final step. She understood, at least partially, that the jedi ruined everything and took one of the fews alternatives: start from zero. Of course, all her methods were wrong, ut she had more guts and did a lot more than all the other masters. Also, no one is more annoying or deserves more hate than Vrook 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Phantom19913]

That’s the thing about the Jedi when they get to big it always leads to their downfall

[@RZG2001]

Hello there

[@Tuklom]

General kenobi! You are a bold one

[@brosephbroman7564]

Take a seat.

[@flaviusgerhardt9354]

Come here my little friend, don’t be afraid.

[@vulture_of_life9274]

You mean how the Jedi are consistently failing, because they're the ones actually intervening in conflicts without having pretense or understanding (example being when they decided to step in and stop Grievous from erasing the race that but him and countless other species into slavery). Yeah, the jedi are constantly messing up things.

[@RoyalLegend1000]

Yupp, that's why the was needed them to fall, the was just many idiots who don't know what the was doing, the only accuntly good jedi ordrer was Luke's in the Star wars legends

[@tyresejeffers7857]

Genocide is never the answer. That's all I'm going to say

[@vulture_of_life9274]

@@tyresejeffers7857 In my opinion, and in a fictional word viewpoint. I would've helped Grievous exterminate the Kam'rii.

[@wildfire9280]

Yup totally. Ignore every Sith Empire in existence. And when the Jedi don’t intervene (the Mandolorian Wars) they’re still hated. 10/10 logic

[@vulture_of_life9274]

@@wildfire9280 They're rightfully hated for not joining during the Mandalorian wars. How many worlds burned because they didn't intervene. However the Sith weren't influencing the conflict between General Grievous and his people against the slave trading race known as the Yam'rii. In order to stop the Yam'rii, Grevious went to war and almost succeeded in crushing them. However the Jedi intervened and stopped it. The jedi deserve the hate they get. My side is influenced by the fact I despise jedi though and love the sith.

[@ThoraxetheImpaile100]

11:40 I guess Brianna doesn't count as a canon companion in KOTOR 2. To be honest, that's the only reason I play the game as male rather than female. I felt that Brianna had more depth to her character where as Mical felt like it was lacking. Plus Brianna joining the team made more sense as she was Kreia's way into Atris's academy.

[@tux75]

Bastilla Shan survived as well, I can see Juhani as a victim of Katarr, and I can see Jolee either died to Sion in a last stand or gave up being a Jedi to survive

[@Deathwing-jf8vq]

honestly i'd like to see a video specifically on Atris and how she never realized that she was becoming a sith and how that could have happened.

[@christianholzschuh6853]

Interesting. I always saw Atris more like a grey jedi. Somebody that sits around and acomplishes nothing. Shure, she talked to sith holocrons a lot and her mind was clouded but, she always lacked power and conviction. She was a sheep who just wanted to follow somebody. First the playercharacter, then the masters who blamed her, then the holocrons. She founded a jedi academy without jeditraining. Atris is more the Sakura of Kotor then anything else...

[@jakealter5504]

They were right about the dark side being at work but they screwed up on blaming revan, malak, and meetra. Vitiate’s sith were the ones that they likely sensed

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

Zayne Carriick should have been one of those "new Masters". No other Jedi held to the nobility and hope the Jedi represented to the galaxy like he did.

[@jonahstirbis3408]

This is why I made a new Jedi order that allows marriage and allows all types of teachings and students and admits our mistakes when they happen.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

I'd love videos about both the Pious Dea Crusades and the New Sith Wars. To immensely awesome (and underrated) eras in Star Wars that the jedi absolutely rocked managing xD and argueably also the most dire and grim times to be alive in the galaxy.

[@Reoh0z]

If the Jedi had gotten involved would Darth Revan, and all that came after, have still transpired?

[@Thastormable]

Counting the old republic? Yeah. Considering what turned them was encountering the emperor unprepared which no one at the time knew existed. Not counting old republic? It is unknown but likely he would have still fallen since reven had to adopt increasingly more militaristic viewpoints to combat the mandalorians and he realized the sith was behind things and had to set the stage for the Galaxy to fight them with a broken republic. It is heavily implied by both go-to and hk-74 that before reven even met the emperor he was already planning on using the siths own tactics against them, malacor was a experiment in how to break a Jedi. Funny thing is even after he was corrupted by the emperor he was still intending of fighting with the republics interests in mind, his goal was to corrupt the Jedi into his own order that way when the sith finally did arrive they would not be able to do the same and he would have a army of loyal force users ready to fight them.

[@legotimefuntime5438]

I’ve been replaying KotOR 2 and never realized how screwed up the console was.

[@poepjehansma7088]

star wars history is more intresting than real life history

[@michaelandreipalon359]

*sees title* Finally, somebody is speaking my Star Wars language. If the Jedi go wayward, feel free to purge them, as necessary.

[@exodosthesoulbanish]

Honestly I feel that how dogmatic and stubborn Vrook was he bent the other two masters into his way of thinking. If Vrook wasn't there I reckon the others would of come around about their failings.

[@mr.vorrnyvorrn2516]

What if Vrook Lamar opened his eyes?

[@pauliverson3956]

Explaining the Lost Jedi, you forgot the Handmaiden Brianna. “Canonically” she was did go with Surik and was trained as a Jedi and would replace Atris as historian.

[@timvanhoeck7018]

Ossus wasn't the Jedi homeworld. That would be Tython. Ossus was simply their greatest repository of knowledge, until it's destruction, of course.

[@eagarmp]

Don't forget Brianna the handmaiden she did travel with meetra not in the game but in the actual kotor 2 timeline

[@TheSuperJepphyKiller]

0:16 Yeah well they expelled Ahsoka from the order for political convenience.

[@cweb9169]

I do appreciate that you guys are actually fair to the Jedi Order. So many star wars fans are so simple where the Jedi are concerned. "JUsT lET tHEm HavE sEx thAtLL fIX thEM!" Totally missed what the real problem and philosophical approach of the Order became after Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider. Everyone assumes grey Jedi are not only real but better because"grEy JEdI cAN kILl anD BanG aND Be GoOd gUyS!' Missing that there is no so called grey side for one, and that moral greyness does not predicate itself on the Force itself being grey. We're that true then the Jedi and Sith would have long ago been brought up against another order. However all such so called grey siders are merely stuck in the middle. Because they are not attune with the light or dark their affinity is rather dulled. As has been spoken toward and inferred time and again in media of all manner regarding star wars. Flawed the Jedi may be but it's not because they are simply doing it wrong as all my fellow wannabe Force philosophers wish to imply. Anyways rant over. Thanks again for being more honest about the Force and Jedi, Geetsly crew.

[@garrettously3605]

You forgot about the Handmaiden (Brianna) she became a jedi and took Atris's place

[@christophermetzger8183]

The jedi philosophy was flawed even in Yoda's time. They just learned way more than there predecessors. It was not until Luke in his old age prefect the jedi philosophy.

[@ramendragon3628]

Mira, Atton Rand, and Bao-Dur sound like awesome future videos; especially Mira and Rand. Thanks for posting.

[@Belial1125]

Im always sad that the Handmaiden isnt canon because you dont get her on the female play through, and the female exile is the canon, so she ends up pretty much having to live a life of misery and pity being the least of her sisters, instead of being able to be recognized as a full jedi and becoming the best of them.

[@varasatoshi3961]

Never have I heard the full story of both KOTOR games in one video. Especially deep diving into the reason, and the overarching narrative of the series. I love it.

[@ChairmanKam]

See I disagree with the premise that the Jedi during the prequels weren't just as corrupt. When I played TSL, that was the revelation: Whenever the Order corrupts, it dies.

[@zexalbrony4799]

In Atrias defense, she was right about needing to study your enemy to beat them. After all, if you have no idea what your enemy is all about, how they fight, think, act, how will you come up with a plan to counter and stop them. However, she fucked it up, she was supposed to study them, not join them. And that is why she fails.

[@DarkManser]

I can't remember if it's dialogue in game or deleted content, but it's revealed that she orchestrated Darth Nihilus' slaughter of the Jedi gathering at Kataar. She hoped the gathering would allow the Jedi the strength to take him on, but she was wrong. It's why the 3 masters you come across are surprised to hear she was alive. They thought she was there since she set it up.

[@anthonyhargis6855]

The only problem with the Jedi was their failure to understand the doctrine of "Separation of Church and State." They had no business aligning with "government" in any form. That alliance is what led to their troubles . . . in every era.

[@juniorg8162]

I would like to see a video on each of the jedi Meetra Surik found or if there is not much information about them just make one. I especially want to learn more about Mira the bounty hunter and her reasoning behind not killing anyone. Visas Marr and how she got free from her slavery by the Sith. And lastly about Bao-Dur and what he did during the Mandalorian Wars.

[@lai9986]

When seeing her, I could never tell whether Kreia was a Twi’lek or not.

[@HandleDisliker]

I keep thinking Kreia is a Togruta or something like that myself lol. The makeup, hair and hood don't really help with that

[@DLR1997]

She is human

[@alexkorinth6459]

That is exactly how the jedi should pick new padawans. Just grab lost souls to train. They already know how to handle emotion because they've already felt them, and learned their consequences the hard way. Not only that, but they know how to use them properly for good instead of evil.

[@antwan1357]

I remember her she wasn't a Sith she was a fanatic for the light side.

[@tokodemon4281]

The Jedi don’t adapt or expect controversial ideas even if they will help in fear of the dark side. That’s why the Jedi will fail every time. If they weren’t so kill happy with palps things may have happened differently. Gray is the only path worth while

[@echo8474]

Please do multiple videos about these individual jedi who were involved in Mitra Surick's coucil.

[@smartgoku9048]

the jedi at that time were very closed minded, not to mention that if you listen to how they all talk they are very clearly ruled by fear. the only one who seemed to have a brain or at least more jedi scruples was that Yoda race guy, less closed that one.

[@123fourfive5]

How did Revan's sith directly lead to the sith triumvirate? And how did those two sith armies not clash at some point? Especially since the triumvirate should have been created at the end of the Mandalorian wars so both parties would have existed simultaneously

[@dobbysboggart6883]

After Malak's death, his empire fell apart into warring factions. Sion and Nihilus were the surviving leaders who emerged from the conflict. And Kreia moved into the academy at Malachor, adopted the name Darth Traya, and formed the alliance of the Sith Triumvirate. She completed Sion's and Nihilus's training, before they betrayed her.

[@CD-Freedom]

Great video. I really enjoy your KOTOR 2 content!

[@no1ofconsequence936]

Meetra Surik created a new Jedi Order. I just wish we could see some stories with them. Probably just fan fictions if anything.

[@ninjadejedi]

This is kinda wrong, the Mandalorian War was the plan of the Sith to weaken the Jedi order before they invade and Revan felt right into it, there is also that when the Mandalorian was still weak the Republic refused to fight them and not until Taris had been targeted that they starting fight back. The council skeptic toward the Exile was understandable. Revan and Marlak felt right into the Sith plans, destroying the Jedi order and the Republic, why should the order trust Surik ? And at the end, Revan is a failure, he felt for the Sith Emperor plans, weaken the Jedi order and the Republic, got imprison again by the Sith Emperor, then lost the Founder and got killed by a bunch of young Siths and bounty hunter, then endanger the whole galaxy again by reviving the Sith Emperor and got killed again. He is a definite of a chump.

[@nathaniellong4281]

I would love to see videos covering these Jedi "failures", and how they rebuilt the Order with the Jedi Exile.

[@alexanderrahl7034]

I mean, Bastia Shan and her child was still on Coruscant too. I always wondered what became of her

[@jodhaaakbarfantuomey8103]

Lonna Vash and Kavar weren't the worst. If you play with the Restoration MOD they were reasonable. Atris was just evil, okay. She was as elitist and power hungry as Palpatine. She was originally supposed to be Darth Traya. Vrook, like Windu was just too in love his own perspective.

[@Justin-AL]

Geetsly: Kavarr secret joined the royal family Onderon Man 1: hey jim did you hear about the Jedi helping out the queen Onderon Man 2: yeah I was just telling Sarah, Michelle and James about it weird right?

[@gothicshark]

The Jedi Exile "Meetra Surik" more then Raven should be made canon, her journey is the one I find most interesting. I wish KOTOR 2 was polished better than it was, because it was by far the more interesting story.

[@ucbrightnoa]

Contains Knights of the Old Republic II spoilers: Ossus wasn’t the original, original Jedi home planet; Tython was. Tython ended up being abandoned and forgotten. Ossus was more of an archive and scholarly planet until its destruction. Also not mentioned is that Atris arranged for the last Jedi conclave on Katarr without going herself. She saw the Order as weak and in need of purging. So, she had them gather as bait to lure the threat that sucked the life out of all of them. She knowingly threw the Order under the bus. Just before their deaths, they saw a vision that revealed Meetra Surik as the key to galactic salvation-the one they should seek. Atris then arranged for Surik to return to Republic space, then leaked that information, again using a Jedi as bait to lure out the threat (Atris not realizing she was part of the threat). Atris had fallen so far, she deemed the Jedi too weak to be worthy of redemption. So she studied forbidden Sith knowledge hoping to destroy the Sith, denying that she was dark side herself. Atris would have combined the Sith and Jedi teachings to make a new, “stronger” Jedi Order while denying the hypocrisy of making the Sith again.

[@airekblade5036]

How about that time when Jedi Master were slaying apprentices because they force future. Zayne was the Jedi apprentice that escape.

[@raw6668]

The Brianna Handmaiden is also another example of failure. Also, the cannon is all possible recruits, regardless of gender, were recruited.

[@brosephbroman7564]

I'll agree that this era of Jedi had to go. But in the end they learned their mistake. Though the cost was very high.

[@KenwrathKDK]

The jedi never learned they acted as though the sith could never return when any one of them could fall

[@92HazelMocha]

They didn’t though; the fear of the Sith and unwillingness to question themselves lead to their fall a second time, at the hands of Vader and Emperor. And then a third time when Luke tried to kill Ben Solo because he was afraid Ben would turn to the dark side. StarWars is literally just the Sith trashing the galaxy then the Jedi trashing the galaxy.

[@samueldimmock694]

@@92HazelMocha Those were different mistakes. They never made the same mistake again--they actually made the opposite error, joining a war without bothering to ask if they had exhausted all peaceful options or even if they knew what they were doing or if it was the most effective means of fighting (since they were fighting the Clone Wars like the New Sith Wars anyway, they really should have remembered the most effective strategy from that war and reformed the Army of Light). I guess you could argue that the thing with Ben was the same error, but that was in Disney Star Wars and the Old Sith Wars were in Legends.

[@92HazelMocha]

@@samueldimmock694 I mean one being legends and one being new cannon kind of reinforces the notion that the main Jedi ideology has inherent flaws at some level. The irony of the clone wars is that only a few years prior they Jedi refused to intervene in the Naboo blockade affair because “the Jedi are peacekeepers not soldiers” only to become literal generals not long after.

[@samueldimmock694]

​@@92HazelMocha I would argue that, since Luke obviously didn't know what he was doing, that his failures were those of Luke and had nothing to do with the Jedi ideology that he barely knew anything about until he went into exile (unless Canon says he learned about the Old Jedi Order's methods earlier).

[@derrickstorm6976]

Bruh your writer needs more sleep, the inconsistency is hurtin

[@superabdoking5372]

Mitra syrik is the sithari of the jedi order The wound she helped create ended up destroying the jedi order, and she was the one who rebuilt it, stronger than ever before

[@Nephalem2002]

This is why the Old Republic Era is my favourite era, it perfectly represents why the Jedi were complete fucking morons.

[@pw6002]

Very nice vid, full of information about the KOTOR era, thanks !!

[@g-bohh6718]

Hey man can you do a more in-depth dive inth the jedis that took over

[@Nsinger998]

Canonically, Handmaiden/Brianna was also one of the lost Jedi.

[@clement28300yip]

Why does it feel like the Clone Wars and subsequently Order 66, showed the Order had learnt nothing from the First Jedi Purge?

[@leonielson7138]

While I don't disagree that the Jedi Order following the Mandalorian Wars, especially during KOTOR 2, needed to be destroyed, the Jedi Order of the Prequel Trilogy also failed sufficiently that I think they needed to be wiped out, too. The only problem is that the Jedi Order (or complete lack of it) in the sequel Trilogies failed to present a better alternative, with the New Hope(less loser), Jake Skywalker, taking the place of the hopeful Luke Skywalker, last seen in The Mandalorian, Season 2. My understanding of the Clone Wars, before the Clone Wars cartoons, was that the Jedi knights and masters made for poor battlefield commanders, especially at the start of the war. At the end of each engagement, as the clones mourned their lost brothers, the Jedi preached detachment, resulting in a simmering anger in some, or in the case of Commander Cody, a detachment from any loyalty to the general under whom he served. There would have been outliers, of course, like Anakin Skywalker, who could empathize with the clones, remembering the loss of his own mother and the anger that drove him to, but for the most part, there would be no reason for the clones not to turn on their generals when Order 66 was issued. Public sentiment had also turned against them after the First Battle of Geonosis, when so many young Jedi died: Palpatine would have issued a list of names, giving his condolences to the families of the fallen, and enlisted some of them to speak out against the Jedi for the massacre. Even Master Yoda would have had to admit that if not for the arrival of the Grand Army of the Republic (which he personally lead) many more would have died that day, resulting in positive PR for the GAR at the same time that faith in the Jedi would drop to an all time low. With their vaunted detachment, the Jedi would never be able to explain to the grieving parents why they lead so many youths to their untimely end. While the Clone Wars cartoons shed a better light on the Jedi as military leaders, I still think that the majority of them preached detachment to their troops, producing resentment or emotional dissonance, which is what ultimately made Order 66 possible. The Old Jedi Order was therefore doomed to failure, and the New Jedi Order was also doomed to fail as soon as The House of Mouse took over and put 'Feminazi' Kennedy in charge, greenlighting 'No Plan' Abrams and 'Subversion' Johnson to direct. Sorry if I rant.

[@starkillerab1582]

5:26 what?!!!! Order 66 happened several millennia after that really??!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@marklee1194]

11:57 - Also, Brianna the Last Handmaiden who went on to succeed Atris as Jedi Historian.

[@andredfreitas6909]

I use those jedis on my RPG star wars saga kotor game as the new jedi counsil. I would like to see a vídeo about each one of them.

[@Shadeem]

"pretty big jedi defenders" erm...have we watched the same videos :D

[@NRAllen]

Yes! Lore on the Kotor 2 characters? Please and thank you. For I am not the Jedi I should be

[@udhavbhatia6424]

I do agree with you but I am not a strong supporter of the jedi or their philosophy it works great in isolation but not in the larger galaxy the je'daii the predecessors of the later jedi had a much better understanding of the force to them a person can fall to both the light or dark side and rather than killing or exiling them they helped them maintain balance and a galaxy under them would have been more peaceful because unlike the jedi they would have responded to the mandalorian threat and the sith would not be this powerful thing had they been around. Hey Geetsly can you also make a video about the Je'daii and how different the galaxy would have been if their teachings were still practised by the modern jedi.

[@HardPhoenixRock]

You feel so safe inside The walls you fortified Supremacy implied Who dares to overthrow? Arrogance justified Self-importance amplified It's down you go When your walls fall like Jericho Track: Jericho Artist: Celldweller Album: End of an Empire Release Year: 2015

[@jendersonmohammed443]

Their failures created lots of catastrophic events.