ROGUE in Burning Crusade Classic: Is It Any Better Now?

Next up on the Class list is the Rogue! Hardly a slouch in any area of the game in Classic, but... Is ROGUE Any Better Now? 2/9
Check out silentshadows.net/ for A TON more rogue info!
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Music used, In order:
► Black Temple: • Video
► Coilfang Reservoir: • Coilfang Reservoir Dun...
► Isle of Quel'Danas: • The Burning Crusade Mu...
► Ghostlands: • Ghostlands - Music & A...
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:10 Rogue Overview
2:04 What's New?
4:30 Leveling
5:20 PvE Overview
7:15 PvE Assassination
7:58 PvE Combat
12:20 PvP Overview
14:11 PvP Subtlety
16:22 Tier
17:51 Is It Any Better Now?
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Videos referenced:
Mutilate Guide by FollowBabah: • Mutilate Guide, Chapte...
Supremus - Black Temple by ~ No Commentary ~ Gameplay: • Supremus - Black Templ...
Wolf Pack vs Kil'Jaeden (Rogue PoV) by MrOoggabooga: • Wolf Pack vs Kil'Jaede...
Neilyo 14 - "2s 2600+ S4" by WoW Video Archive: • Neilyo 14 - "2s 2600+ S4"
Akrios: Eviscerate VIII Apolocalypse by HypnoDroid: • Akrios: Eviscerate VII...
World of Warcraft - Nihilum vs. Illidan World First Kill by FallOfTroyML: • World of Warcraft - Ni...
Nihilum vs Archimonde - World 1st by tylsen: • Nihilum vs Archimonde ...
SK Gaming vs Kil'jaeden by Stuart Mcalister: • SK Gaming vs Kil'jaeden
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#TBC #TheBurningCrusade #wowclassic #wow #warcraft #classicwow

[@nofoxgiven6561]

“Hang on gotta go gank a level 61 in hellfire” pure gold

[@ephemispriest8069]

Accurate.

[@ElfTaleFilms]

Can level 58 enter peninsula in tbc?

[@emllik2155]

@@ElfTaleFilms yes, the black portal quest becomes available at 58

[@pt9373]

@@ElfTaleFilms you can go as early as you want with a shatt portal

[@daniellooney8878]

@@ElfTaleFilms yes. 58 and above can go to the Outland

[@Rockmaster867]

Noone is talking about the biggest pvp buff. Selecting a different target does not remove combo points on your original target anymore. You can now build cp on target one, kick/blind target two and kidney target one

[@Ghalion666]

Really? I'd say that's a pve buff too for all the bosses that have adds to kill. It really annoyed me doing the most damage to jin'do totems when I lose combo points to do it, meanwhile other classes lose nothing doing it. blahh

[@Rockmaster867]

@@Ghalion666 you lose them on target 1 if you build cp on target 2 though

[@Ghalion666]

@@Rockmaster867 oh. blast.

[@Drain-Life-Archive]

In classic; you always lose points if you dropped or switched targets. After classic; you only lose points on 1st target if you build points on someone else. Kick/blind do not build points so you are safe to juggle targets with these. Note that gouge however makes a point. This means you lose the original points on a prior target.

[@ETtheOG]

LONG WERE THE DAYS WHERE HUNTER CHEAT DEATH WAS BROKEN AS FUCK SINCE IT WOULD AUTO SWITCH TARGET TO PET, GODDAM THAT WAS FUCKING DUMB

[@DJTyrant]

I played a rogue all during TBC, saw three OH's drop from Illidan and never got one, two went to rogues that left the guild and one went to our DPS warrior. So many good memories though, this might pull me back into classic to play again!

[@saxxonpike]

They don't have to be the second best to still have gouged a place in my heart.

[@ChaosChanneler]

Love the production value and editing choices that are going on in this video. I'm looking forward to the next video in this series. :D

[@jolssoni2499]

8:37 After getting your 5p Eviscerates dodged (and parried if someone goes over) through all of Classic, I'm pretty sure no rogue main will ever forget they're now getting Surprise Attacks.

[@HeavenShallBurn16]

prepatch Vael parses pog, god how many times i went crazy with the like 2-3 dodges in a row on 5cp eviscerate, and gcd works kinda wonky in that fight also, probably cos spell batch

[@Strewgle]

@@HeavenShallBurn16 getting dodged is infuriating lol

[@aSerAlqt]

When talking about deadly throw also interrupting, that clip of Neilyo fighting that shaman was the first thing that came to mind. Funny you showed it right after :D

[@sg3639]

Funny how that was considered a big play back then

[@stackeddeck5468]

WillE Hello man, you do a great job with your vids as usual. I have something to correct from this one though, armor scales linearly. Every point of armor you gain gives the same amount of effective hp against physical damage. The fact your % reduction doesn't scale linearly but logarithmicly, doesn't mean you get diminishing returns. Suppose State A = 99% reduction, State B = 99.9% reduction, going from State A to State B makes you 10 times tankier, though you only gained 0.1% reduction. The best way to understand %reduction is to calculate the effective hp you get from it, then compare how much effective hp you gain from armor. This has been calculated by many people in the community and the results are that armor doesn't have diminishing returns, it scales linearly. Keep on the good work, and I'll see you soon in the next one.

[@Indexrp]

Rogues will now become an official RP class at least we look really cool and are really good for pvp FeelsGoodMan

[@Stojanov23]

M'lord. /salute

[@yaloops5349]

M'lord. /salute

[@germanmade1219]

This rogue is dead mentality is hilariously doomer. There will be rogues in your guild who will do more dps than warlocks and hunters who are dumb as fuck despite being the most OP classes in the game.

[@davidcardinal3654]

@@germanmade1219 hahaha ya. Happens more often than you think

[@monkeyjames9285]

M'lord index from eu sever hope your rp life good me over us sever kinda hate the fact lot people I like at least is eu all the time

[@jakobsyven8477]

Finally, been longing for this series! Btw, good job on the pvp part! Looking forward to the shadow priest video!

[@zarebear5690]

Really enjoying this series, can't wait for the next one

[@MellonVegan]

10:35 They have a bear tank, that's the reason. Paladin or bear main tank (which was even done on some server first kills in T5 on pservers, so it's not unfeasible), use expose armour, warrior main tank, don't.

[@Seywio]

it´s insane to me that your channel still runs under 100k subs. Keep up the work my man, your videos got me to start classic in january this year after haven´t played since bc in 2007. Just want to let you know of my appreciation of your work.

[@decegrease]

Man, it's crazy how different things actually turned out. Don't get me wrong, some bosses are super melee unfriendly, but I regularly out DPS hunters and warlocks on bosses where the uptime for melee is high. Super glad I didn't change classes.

[@PibsterPewPew]

‘Those agility daggers might as well go somewhere’ *hunters would like to know your location*

[@cavernus26]

Rogue is the class i phantasize about having the best gear on and shitting on other people in PVP , it will never happen tho as im not willing to put that much time into it , but hey a man can dream

[@harrytowers1076]

Get boosted my man

[@Zetunez]

It's a lot of fucking time.

[@pepparmostheelder]

I still remember when I jumped into a WSG during TBC and just as I was exiting the tunnel and looking across to the Alliance I saw warglaive silhouettes on a rogue and I just left the BG immeditly xD

[@kirtfulcher6288]

Dang first two classes you picked for this series are my two preferred (+ Mage for farming)

[@Michaelolivermussi]

My life has now been reduced to waiting in between these guides q.q ty for the precious

[@melissamcgillivray119]

WillE, love your videos. I especially love that you add a gnome into each intro.

[@WillEmmo]

Thanks!

[@dawuid1491]

Love these little skits you are doing now!

[@Auridanx]

damn today i had a dream about me playing rogue in tbc and this video gets recommended.

[@Claynz]

Great vid, looking forward to PvP on my rogue in BC. BUT! One thing I wanted to add though concerning PvE, since you skipped the spec entirely - Subtlety should have a place in your raid group since it offers a raidwide debuff to be kept on the target in form of Hemorrhage, which increases physical damage taken. You can even see it in the KJ WF video which is why I even remembered it in the first place since I've seen that video so many times (I just started playing right before 2.4 and was on my way to 70 when SK got WF KJ and the vid was uploaded) and I always loved seeing that sub rogue pumping out dmg. Since I wasn't actively raiding at the time, only started to in wrath, I can't say for sure but at least in late game, with the gear to match, they should be pretty good from my understanding and how I remember rogues back then. I also started to play around with talents and I think there are a couple of ways to play sub in a single target boss fights or fights with big priority targets especially, also making target swaps easier with Shadowstep if you choose to go that deep even though I doubt that will be too viable bc we basically need 16 points in Assa and 10-18 in Combat. AoE is lacking obv but apart from blade flurry we didn't really have anything going for us until wrath anyways. Also feel free to correct me, guys - I'm just some guy on the internet after all and I might know jack shit Edit: Also look at the dps meter on KJ ;)

[@viviblaat5831]

I used to play a Rogue back in the day, during TBC and this video is missing a lot of information about the class. Combat isn't the only viable PvE spec, like you said Sub can give a raid buff and Mutilate can even dish out more dps then Combat spec but it's just extremely hard to pull off effectively and that's why nobody plays it. I always played Combat Sub in PvE and PvP, topping dps meters, except for fights when I couldn't dish out damage constantly because a boss is in the air for example. (Range will always win during those fights) One other guy in my guild, refused to play his Rogue with anything else but daggers and mastered the Mutilate play style at a certain point. After lot's of practicing, he managed to kill every Warrior in any 1 vs 1. Which was deemed impossible to do for Rogues back in the day, you see a warrior? Yeah, good luck trying to bleed him out but expect to die unless he doesn't know what he's doing. He could also out dps me during certain fights. Rogue has multiple play styles, some people like Daggers, others like Swords or Maces (I preferred the Maces for PvP, Swords for PvE) and every play style has a very high skill cap you can potentially reach. As a Combat Rogue, always keep you Slice & Dice up, use Garotte when you need to watch your thread and use 5 Combo Eviscrate as much as possible but keep watch of your threat cause you might build up a lot. (I always had to be careful, not to pull aggro) Skill is what will separate the good Rogues from the bad ones on the Damage Meters.

[@MarcioLisboa2006]

Rogues in early TBC also have a very strange and cool build: The Tanker Rogue.

[@jdf9491]

WillE I love your videos. Always look forward to them.

[@krackerface]

Keep up the good vids man always a pleasure to listen to you lol hooefully that dont come across wierd

[@dus1663]

eagerly awaiting the hunter and mage installments to this series, great video

[@DaWombatGaming]

great work WillE. Entertaining and informative.

[@bjornvermeulen2005]

Great video. Honestly i am hoping for longer fights and a change in dps meters. I think after 2 years of rogues mages and warriors as only dps and warlocks and hunters as support, it will be nice to see locks and hunters receive some love. I like playing warlocks but only rolled priest as locks were useless (its better in p6 though). I do think rogue will def get one and prob more spots even if they dont top dps. The bring a lot of utility and there just arent enough hunters or locks (on my server) let alone shamys especially on ally side, leaving spots to be filled by rogues warriors and mages.

[@MellonVegan]

Deadly throw interrupt does get used in PVE. It's very rare but when it's used, you can take care of sth like interrupting a Council add on your own.

[@wneptune]

Cloak of Shadows had some interesting uses. When fighting Gruul being able to stop the turning to stone mechanic was nice. Could still attack and move at full speed for the duration. Could get crushed if too close with the shatter mechanic so still needed to be aware of the distances.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

Never lost the fight one time because of this, it was great being a down syndrome rogue back then. Helped in shade of aran to blow everyone else up as wel :D

[@L0oouuuu754]

FINALLY THE NEXT EPISODE!

[@Cendoria]

My retail TBC classes were: Main hardcore raider Warlock, Rogue for pvp and farming (vanilla main), and druid tank for HC badge gear farming

[@SteveFlener]

My 2 level 60s are rogue and warrior. I’m in no hurry to raid (I only recently did BWL and got almost a full tier set since nobody needed) so I plan on leveling my rogue then working on warrior until raids are out for awhile and being pugged easily. Not sure if I’m in the minority but I don’t care about pvp or raids, I just enjoy playing

[@zoenna]

Awesome video, thanks!

[@Omegawylo]

Your last video was so good I wanted to binge the rest... except you haven't made them yet!

[@WillEmmo]

I'll be working my way through them all!

[@deepsky2115]

Back in time where Johnny R. quit his CS carrier and played WoW in Nihilum :D

[@BFMVPeter]

I'm loving this new series!

[@tailez606]

Timestamps! 0:00 Intro 0:51 Rogue Overview 2:06 What's new? 4:28 Leveling 5:20 PVE - Overview 7:15 PVE - Assassination 7:57 PVE - Combat 12:11 PVE - Subtlety 13:59 PVP - Subtlety 16:23 Tier Sets 17:54 Conclusion

[@doomzx8284]

GOT HIM ! First time on my own, 00:33 right side in the clouds! Willy ! :D

[@Drtimahoh]

So excited for the warlock video

[@alexcluff5559]

Deadly Throw does have a slim use in PVE actually, back during BT progression I was the interrupt rogue on Reliquary of Souls, where I'd have Kick and Deadly Throw queued up to interrupt while using the pvp gloves.

[@alexcluff5559]

Oh also Envenom was good in limited cases when you wanted a big hit in PVE cleaved with blade flurry. A maxed envenom would hit harder than a maxed eviscerate if you didn't care about keeping up your sustained damage (i.e. targets would die soon), and its armor ignoring could be multiplied by cleaving with BF. I didn't do it all that much, but I remember some packs in ZA trash I'd cleave with it.

[@chaseedgren3097]

Awesome informative video! I stopped playing classic a few months ago, looking forward to coming back for some arenas!

[@aidanwow1593]

The problem with Rogue (and Fury Warrior) is that we won't have the AtlasLoot exploit to farm glaives. If you don't know what that is, Preach has a good but old video on the top exploits in WoW. Basically there was a way to use AtlasLoot to see what the loot table in a raid was and that included glaives. Once Blizzard forced them to fix it, glaive drops became quite rare.

[@anirzz8273]

Fury warriors dont deserve glaives

[@biermuschi8183]

Back then on Season 2 there was a rogue on my server who got Rank 1 with Mutilate... Loved this server... there were so many skilfull players. Arthas DE

[@ArtemArkantos]

great job on that video, thx for it

[@bezzo3328]

Would love to see Shamans. Imo pretty underrated, specially as heal.

[@Zetunez]

Shamans were stacked in actual tbc and private servers. They're the warriors of the expansion.

[@reviewcomplete3701]

Love your videos dude

[@shatter382]

When your talking about SK gaming vs Kil'jaeden it's worth noting that at that moment a druid is tanking. From what i understand in late black temple/sunwell druids overtake warriors as the best tanks. having more threat, and mitigation with high agility gear. If this is the case it will probably allow rogues to use expose armor in the later patches.

[@free-onlyfans-enjoy4989]

8:37 After getting your 5p Eviscerates dodged (and parried if someone goes over) through all of Classic, I'm pretty sure no rogue main will ever forget they're now getting Surprise Attacks. 🙌💛🙌💛

[@Maybenice86]

Leveling a rogue currently with my actual name and cant be happier. Hes my alter ego Rene and enjoys swinging swords or hitting with daggers. I specifically went rogue for tbc. Warglaives, human, my name and will do just fine in anything, doesnt matter if pve/pvp or whatever. The all-in tryhards that think u need to minmax to clear things are the ones i dont wanna play with anyways. Classic got ruined enough by minmaxing, i hope tbc will be better in that regards. Not once has wow needed minmaxing to actually clear everything and it will never be neccesary.

[@Fuminshou]

We're glad you're enjoying playing your rogue. Hope you continue to have as much fun throughout TBC as well! I've been a rogue main for 15 years, not going to change even if we're kind of meh in TBC PvE.

[@eb5548]

I definitely min-max'd the fun out of my game in retail. In classic, I had a priest called Evalyn so my name but with a different vowel, and just enjoyed the character fantasy. Holy Priest has always been my favourite thing to play (and you can see why retail minmax didnt work when disc is often so much better).

[@cosmo56]

i'm sorry to say that it's 100% that minmaxing will be the meta in TBC too we've changed too much as players and the internet has waaaaay too much information

[@Fuminshou]

​@@cosmo56 You're right, the community will min/max the game as much as possible. There will always be room for Rogue and other class/specs that don't preform so well, though. Boomkins are still around in classic as are feral druids. Melee mains will just have a harder time finding a steady raid spot, but we will survive, and near endgame, thrive!

[@cosmo56]

@@Fuminshou it reminds me of when i was a teenager playing TBC and struggled to get into raids as a fury warrior lol

[@Waacks]

Shaman next please!

[@speakeasy9911]

GREAT intro. =D

[@KlockoArt]

I found the gnome hidden in the intro! :D

[@chaindorian]

@Derp Inshmurtz 0:33, clouds in the background near the bottom as the shaman casts heroism

[@Drain-Life-Archive]

I'm glad you realize the diminishing returns on armor. Many people to this day still believe a myth that armor is worth the same value per point.

[@wcjerky]

IEA + executioner proc= no armor clothie. locks had switched completely to fel armor, although demon still was an option.

[@thecry4]

Maybe I missed it, but did you say which class you were doing next?

[@Peterishd]

Best Wow classic channel :)))

[@nixn6412]

I go back and forth between him and MadSeason. But you aren’t wrong

[@ajaakola2]

@@nixn6412 I watch these two + metagoblin

[@ashrasmun1]

@@nixn6412 me as well, but I ended up loving this Channel. Madseason has some questionable opinions...

[@nixn6412]

@@ashrasmun1 Do tell

[@brucefly3612]

Hey WillE, how do you get footage with Warglaives of Azzinoth, do you use private server to test weapons like Metagoblin?, if so, which should I try use?, I know there are some Wrath of the lich king test servers that you can use on your own, thanks in advance.

[@Zalorel4112]

So while I do plan on playing a rogue in tbc classic (with an enh shaman as backup in case things go horribly), what I haven't decided on yet is whether to go backstab or sword/mace. I'm leaning more towards backstab because of juicy crits and less competition for weapons but sword/mace outdps's it afaik. I've been searching around to hopefully find some sims that show the difference but I don't know if I'm just bad at looking or if that info just isn't around. Also I kinda wanna fuck around a little trying spellpower in some dungeons as mut. If the difference isn't too vast where I feel like I can possibly find a spot (on top of already being a rogue) then I'd prefer to stay backstab com

[@KingofPingBC]

WillE, will you do this for the races too? I.e. If there are any changes that make some races better than they were in Classic Vanilla, or worse?

[@findorbed]

0:33 there's the Gnome!

[@jfeeezy8418]

Thru in the Akrios video!!! Nice nice!!

[@WarriorHorizon]

In the nihilum raid on illidan, the top dps was a mage and two rogues.

[@charliefox8311]

HARP (Hemo/AR/Prep) was such a fun PVP build

[@MrGlennJohnsen]

Slight bit of input on Armor Reduction in TBC. Armor Reduction becomes stronger and stronger the more of the boss’s armor your character is able to ignore, early on there’s very little armor reduction gear which means the value of armor reduction debuffs isn’t as valuable- with Hunters being the exeption because of their dungeon set bonus. Most raid bosses have between 6200 and 7700 armor, the real value of Armor Reduction first comes when you bring bosses below 800 armor where it quickly becomes very strong point by point. To do this you need all armor reduction debuffs and above 300-400 Armor Reduction from your gear, which isn’t readily available until Black Temple and Sunwell. For this reason it’s not really worth to use Armor Reduction debuffs (especially at the cost of your Warrior tanks threat) until Sunwell, yeah it helps and it’s better than what a Fury Warrior brings ...but it’s not really worth as much in the early raids.

[@MW-ty5zw]

One pretty neat selling point for rogues is Deadly Throw. Given how content will be piss easy in classic TBC with the tuning, it could be viable to run pvp gloves and spend all your CP on expose and deadly throw. On a boss like Illidari council you already spend all your CP on DT. But it can also be viable on Kael'Thas. Your role there could be playing the dagger i OH and shiving people for dispells then proceed to just do shiv -> DT and effectively solo interrupt the boss. Could be useful if your shamans are braindead and would rather press chain heal than spending 20-ish mana and interrupt instead. Also, rogues bring really good utility in ZA bear runs. Super hard to get a raid spot though and I find the rotation so boring personally.

[@simonlauer9379]

Any realm decisions yet for tbc classic. Gonna play on an English Eu realm and would be nice to be on your server

[@pohja4552]

You should smaller update videos on classes throughout tbc. To see if things change somewhat.

[@melovesblues]

Something you have missed that is really important : Rogue is one of the best classes to bring 5 man dungeons, both normal and heroics. TBC is really 5 man heavy, both normals and heroics, for items, reputations and attunements. Rogue's are one of the most wanted classes as they can Sap as reliable CC before pull, distract for skipping packs of patrolling mobs safely, kicks, kidney shot to help tanking, blind that can save many wipes, AND being able to unlock chests. I generally play a tank or healer, and I prefer to have a rogue in party in TBC, especially if he is a reliable one.

[@Nighato]

My guild had top 15-30 on most bosses in TBC, I was main tank and I could always use devastate. I also didn't know about drums until TBC classic was announced.

[@ajaakola2]

Ain't they nerfing drums tho ?

[@Nighato]

@@ajaakola2 that's not the point. the point is that there was no/very little meta back then

[@ajaakola2]

@@Nighato Yea I got it. I meant just how useless that you just learned about drums was haha, if they are getting nerfed anyway

[@edgarloike]

Sunwell daggers and gear with a few pieces of the arena set, made Mutilate absolutely lethal. Full pvp geared demo locks where melting in my stunlocks. Absolutely 0 skill was required, lol. Then they nerfed armor pen.

[@bdemar2k12]

Rogues are insanely good in pvp

[@Mammel248]

rogues are going to be the number 1 class for 2v2 in arena, judging by the amount of rogues in the top rated teams on arena tournament tbc servers

[@fab2lats]

@@Mammel248 Rogue are number 1 class for 2v2 in arena since arena was introduced in tbc and up till shadowlands lol.

[@gabrieleghesla6906]

what's the green dagger shown at 08:00?

[@denome3725]

I am automatically giving a like to any video made by WillE

[@cristhianmlr]

You can find the hidden gnome in the background of the intro.

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

once you get the glaives on rogue you will be able to compete with wlocks and hunters in dps, and the good thing is you will most likely be the only rogue so pretty much quaranteed glaives.

[@deaddiamond3698]

I am teared up between a priest and a rogue for TBC. I like to bring utility and support to the team, but stealth, aesthetics and rogue vibes are awesome. Damn.

[@zeakonz70]

do like me, rogue main in classic :P I´m going shaman for tbc , and keeping rogue for pvp ;D

[@ajaakola2]

@@zeakonz70 ele is so nice in bc

[@joshuamercadel3114]

Please do warlock next! I mained warlock back in the day but went priest this time I regret it my 60 gnome warlock is ready to take me back to my heyday

[@exertoins7084]

It didn't look like Nihilum used a prot tank for Kil'jaeden so that might be why they used AE. I remember there being something specific on Kil'jaeden that meant you shouldn't use prot warrior from private server.

[@uoyredrum]

Most tanks went fury/prot for KJ because he doesn't use physical attacks at all. So IMP EA would be fine there, but otherwise it wasn't really used.

[@gerrylee8304]

Thank you WillE :) I will play rouge on pve realm with sub specc because I LOVE SHADOWSTEP:)

[@BryanTheYeti]

Armor scaling is mathematically setup such that each point of armor is worth the exact same as the previous point. It has diminishing returns w/r to DR but that is because each point of DR is worth more than the previous point mathematically. flat armor reduction from EA will have the same effect on tankiness on both low armor and high armor targets.

[@Emilgod]

omg i love those skits :D

[@tomken91]

In start of TBC, you should be using 4 pieces of Tier 0.5. Super strong early on.

[@MellonVegan]

I think that one of three cases will apply to each raid group. A minmax group won't take them because they're just not the meta. A horrible group will take them but the melees will be so bad that they take a lot of damage and the healers won't be able to deal with it. And then at the middle of the road they will do fine Just like with elemental shamans today. In a horrible group, fights take so long that you can't deal a lot of damage without going out of mana. And for the best groups, no one keeps up with warriors and mages. But in between you can be one of the better damage dealers of your raid, possibly the best caster. The question is whether people will try to force meta setups even if they don't have to and even if better players with suboptimal classes are available.

[@zaknefain100]

Only problem I had with Rogues was the very hit-centric itemization. Up until late T5 gear, everything was balanced around hit as a combat rogue. I enjoyed Combat and typically did well against most classes but you really had to manage your trinkets and cooldowns to get the most out of it.. and we kinda hit like a wet noodle coming out of Kara. Still held my own with most fights though.

[@olfan92]

rofl there was an ad on your video about tbc but the gameplay was from retail.

[@Lancemechanics]

they got the world first for sure. but guilds afterwards had no issue downing that boss. Honestly the expose armor thing wasn't that huge. Raid fluidity we kept the Prot warrior and had an arms warrior for 4% phsyical damage.

[@gishathosaurus6828]

All I can remember is every Rogue and their mother going emo with hammer specc

[@epjones366]

my big question is if we will be allowed macros @arena1 @arena2 which I don't think was in early TBC.

[@seinostrifer]

Doesn't anesthesia poison dispel enrage buff, or was that only in wrath? I remembered having to use it on the dog boss in nax in wrath if we had no hunters.

[@Dodgethis1337]

threat poison is used in dungeons mostly if you aggro as mutilate, but 90% of the time u`ll be using wound and mindnumbing against mobs in heroics.

[@relensha7804]

the EA on Kiljaden is because in t6 feral druids start beating deep prot warriors once they get avoidance gear. the exose armor becomes worth it for the hunter (and other melee) at that point because you don't have a deep prot warrior smacking the boss the entire time. could be wrong but that is my guess i cant see in the video clip you used if the MT is a deep prot or not. Edit: confirmed in the clip the only one getting consistently healed is the druid tank.

[@GuvernorDave]

0:32 in the clouds, bottom right

[@ThanDPS]

After testing on the TBC Classic beta, devastating with Imp EA on the target behaves identically to having a 5stack of Sunder Armor on the target. The Prot Warrior will receive DMG +100 bonus threat. The only thing that Imp EA prevents is the 301.5 threat from casting Devastate with

[@clefairy6098]

Improve Expose Armor is for when the MT isn't a warrior. The threat meta gets flipped on its head from what is effectively a DPS spec tanking bosses, Devastate is a powerful new tool to accommodate that for warriors. The Improved Expose Armor strats worked in vanilla Classic because Sunder isn't used by tanks. With the changes to deep prot, namely all the ability cost reductions pumped into the spec, using Devastate as filler around Shield Slam and Revenge while also spamming HS will still be possible. Warriors aren't automatically MTs in TBC, that's where IEA makes its mark. When you have a Paladin or a Druid on a boss, the one dps warrior isn't going to further shame the meters by burning 5 gcds on sunder stacks.

[@jameslane2326]

Saying this at the beginning of the video, I hope Ambush is still amazing in TBC even with resilience

[@kenyenmusic7548]

It’s absolutely terrible

[@Sarum9nich]

The gnome is getting sneakier, i cant find him!

[@ashrasmun1]

It appears during shaman presentation,right when she buffs herself 0:33 :)

[@WillEmmo]

Rogue vid had to be extra sneaky!

[@madiman337]

@@ashrasmun1 good catch!

[@GodOfWar187]

I played rogue back in TBC and I have never heard of rogues being bad until like 3 days ago. Sure they weren't the best in T4, but after that they were perfectly fine and in T6 they were at the top with everyone else. Personally, I'll trust what I experienced during the actual expansion compared to whatever janky ass servers private server people played on.

[@uoyredrum]

Yup, people saying rogues were bad just immediately lets me know they didn't play retail tbc

[@Aaron-xo5ud]

The issue with rogues is that they don't provide anything else in addition to their dmg. Hunters/Locks/Mages all provide additional buffs beyond their dmg. Plus the fact that a lot of fights are anti melee in TBC to the point where you have to stop dpsing or you die. So yea, expect the rogue spots in TBC to be 1 per raid for the super hardcore guilds, if that. For everyone else... Eh I still see people try to make boomkins and ret pallys work in classic, you do you, just don't get mad when people tell you LFM (insert 25man here) DPS, No Rogues.

[@uoyredrum]

@@Aaron-xo5ud It won't be like that because none of the raids until sunwell will be a challenge for hardcore guilds at all. It doesn't matter what you stack till then, and by that point rogues are one of the top dps. Even early on people severely underestimate their dps and overestimate how bad the mechanics are for melee. Only the very top guilds will be running super optimal comps, and this will be mostly for speedrunning (which will look very different anyway).

[@brad1426]

Honestly I kind of have to agree with the rogue guy in this super secret Blizz discussion. I mained a rogue throughout Classic, and while I did manage to kill some, man warlocks and spriests were annoying to fight. Carried restorative potions literally everywhere I went.

[@patriktraven3188]

Will you make the same about shamans ?