Yoshi-P Details Upcoming Job Changes in Dawntrail

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[@helmsruss]

The crazy thing is, viper has been out less than a week and they are already thinking of changing, which has now led to forum posts begging for them to leave it be. Let's see how it performs in the first savage tier before you make it "easier"

[@CWFDSmokeEater]

pressing 1 and 2 is so boring to me. but they wont change that I want them to spread those 2 buttons apart

[@SUCCUB0I]

I for one just hate doing positionals all together. It's not like they are "hard" so getting rid of some doesn't make it "easier" just less busy work and frankly I'm all for that. I've never like positionals and it's been the one reason I haven't played much melee DPS. I just think it's a boring system that tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist for the most part.

[@AdiHashira]

@@CWFDSmokeEater wtf does that even mean??? I mean the ffxiv combat sucks in general but still

[@justsomeguy4422]

exactly, what part of the game is "hard" anymore? outside of personal perspectives, ultimates are the last hard piece of content in the game, savage is just mechanics you already know just in a new environment. and they just keep making the jobs easier.. the entire game is entirely casual oriented. but its the casuals who are also saying the game needs to be easier to play. pretty soon they just gonna make pve buttons work like they do in pvp. pretty soon this game gonna transition to like 6 buttons like tarisland and then everyone can be mad.

[@demored3017]

@@justsomeguy4422 shut the fook up weirdo...the reason why jobs are easier is because dweebs like you cried about the jobs being hard pussy

[@fightingblind]

As a Black Mage main. If I accidentally hit a duty where I sync down, I die inside a little...

[@newdecca]

I read “as a black man, if I accidentally hit a duty” I was like wtf is this guy going on about… sorry bro, carry on.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

That's most of the reason I started playing Red Mage. So I'd have another caster to play in sub-80 content.

[@crimsonshenanigan1854]

I feel that pain on picto doing fates drawing canvases till you sync down to having none drawn

[@kyledabearsfan]

Could be worse, could be Viper lol and any dungeon under70 is utter torture

[@dazzlemasseur]

At least the cluster you get from adventurer in need is very rarely DPS. Once you're done leveling, you can find a different class just to sync down and it doesn't feel too bad.

[@shirox11]

This is a reminder that even if you enjoy something you need to speak up, because if the only voices are the ones complaining about things like Vipers busyness those are the ones they will listen too.

[@originarts2039]

It’s because us casuals are the majority people who whine about "job homogenization" are the tiny .01% who think difficulty equals fun when it doesn’t honestly if they make the jobs too difficult or reduce the buttons to a single button then I am done with the game as will the %99 of the player base

[@Derpaholic_rex_games-wr2pw]

@@originarts2039 tbh there is a big difference between difficulty and being able to read, "reduce the buttons to a single button " might as well be what you do if you reduce one of the simplest jobs any more then it already is lol. Whats next, summoner will only have one summon because its too hard to remember to hit the glowy button. Come-on. Also a lot of people care about job homogenization, there is a reason why people like new jobs, because they are different. If all jobs are the same there is no variety. This is why most people did not like new summoner, nothing changed. What they got was too homogenized and thus boring. Difficulty is not the problem here, its bland-ness

[@shirox11]

@@originarts2039people who complain about Job homogenization is definitely more than 0.01% and jobs being unique does not equal difficulty. Nothing about Viper is difficult, but its fast pace is fun (for me anyway)

[@SirChucklenutsTM]

Just like the ones who whine and want more furry races and slutty clothing

[@sorinnoctis652]

@Derpaholic_rex_games-wr2pw 100% agreed. The proof is in PVP. Waaaaay less buttons but the jobs all feel different and there is A LOT of flavor/job fantasy. People want creativity, and sometimes that includes just a bit of friction(not always hence PvP). It's really telling that positionals on Viper are causing issues, which are very minor, considering waaay less buttons than any other melee job.

[@Gatsby3737]

The devs really need to stop listening to some types of feedback

[@RealKasuta]

this

[@csrjjsmp]

The devs should listen to my feedback and ignore everyone else

[@dontfearthestinger]

Yeah! Only feedback that I agree with!

[@ticien1]

Yes no shit some of our most unhinged that don’t understand mmos are the loudest

[@unixtreme]

The only way to make them hear us is the forums. So time to cry about vipers getting gutted because people can't press buttons.

[@DeadEye364]

Plsplsplspls don’t change viper’s rotation, it’s the most fun I’ve had with all of its weaving.

[@Funguspower2]

If you like to weave I'll just say drg lol

[@MrTsukihami]

Wait what? How's Viper is "hard" for positional?! It's just ending red for ass and green for side and that's it.

[@dyreckta23]

I hope they leave viper alone i welcome the busyness of the job it keeps me on my toes

[@ShadowyDeathSin]

the job will be busy, my only issue I have the job is Noxious Gnash being only 20 seconds, not enough time to really use everything in your opener

[@Kaze91]

​@@Ark_Netherlacks a raid buff, lacks a defensive as well. It literally has the least amount of utility in the game of any class.

[@Atiredproblem]

@@ShadowyDeathSin There sure is time enough with a 20/40 second timer. You'll use your basic 1-2 to get the recast buff, and then proceed to open up from there which means you go into Reawaken with a 30 second Noxious Gnash. I don't see a need to change that per se, but I also wouldn't be averse to a 30/60 second window like others regardless of the job feeling perfectly fine right now.

[@galath9242]

@@Ark_Nether how do you determine it's strength? I have seen stats for 2 extremes and Viper is top adps, ndps on Valigarmanda

[@dantelundell9386]

When doing your opener the debuff shouls be at 40s before you Awaken. If you go into Awaken with only 20s you're doing something wrong. ​@@ShadowyDeathSin

[@sorinnoctis652]

Who was complaining about Viper? All I heard was how easy the Job was. Wasn't everyone noting about how simple the job rotation is?

[@brycemoose7026]

What I'm hearing from some people is that the four different positianals options in the third part of the basic combo cause t people to tunnel vision on their hotbars

[@Elidan1012]

@@brycemoose7026 so there is something to improve at?

[@Super_Death]

Have you played viper? It's extremly busy. There's alot of positionals and I find myself having to focus on my hotbars and positioning (obviously) way more than the fights themselves

[@silvinity4939]

@@Super_Death There's effectively 4 positionals, two rear, two flank. I say this because the two variants of your 1-2-3 are essentially the same, if it's green it's flank if it's red it's rear and they just alternate if you follow the dotted line. Then there's the two coils, hunters is flank and swiftskin is rear. Nothing else has a positional.

[@StripedSooner]

@@Super_Deathif it changes to a green skill icon it’s a flank, red is rear. It alternates back and forth every single time, no thinking required. It’s based on which button you hit in the 2nd part of the combo. They made THREE different ways to tell you what positional you’ll hit. If you still struggle to figure it out, that’s entirely your fault.

[@Vinfir]

I'm really dreading them making changes to Viper's "busyness" it's what makes the job so fun to play, just feels way too early to make changes to it's core gameplay

[@MNOMST]

for ast I'm pretty sure they're just reducing draw to 55s to avoid drifting

[@LordGuy]

Yeha idk why he thought 30s or 40s. Im also assuming it'll be 55s.

[@lyconxero457]

Changing Viper so suddenly when it’s just come out is a bad move IMO. I personally love Viper and while I’m not against changes I feel like we need more time with it as well as more boss encounters to know for sure about BIG changes. The little ones about the range issue is fine, though.

[@Tsuki_Itsubi]

Literally playing Viper because i LOVE how busy it is. I really hope they dont take that away because some people dont enjoy it, they can pick any other melee dps. Also good to see we are still on the trend of pretending Summoner players dont exist anymore this expansion.

[@brycemoose7026]

I betting that the only change is gonna be to the third part of the basic combo. Either getting rid of 2 of the options or just removing those positionals on those actions which i doubt

[@bianka4001]

Why am I the only one thinking it's NOT busy..? And I mained Summoner/Machinist before

[@Tsuki_Itsubi]

@bianka4001 I also mained Summoner before. It's busy in the sense you push a lot of buttons quickly, but it's still very simple and straight forward. It's all very easy to understand and feels smooth.

[@Funguspower2]

"Pick any other melee job." Drg opener doing the kool-aid man entry

[@Braxophone]

Viper is the only class Ive played in this game that I feel is perfect for my ADHD ass If they change it I'll be pretty disappointed.

[@Sockscalibur]

Amen to that, im much the same boat. Plz leave it alone SE

[@dl4071]

I've only reached lvl 90 Viper so far, so I can't say how much change will happen until lvl 100 but Viper has been more or less "click the shining button to do dmg" and positionals are easy to remember....not sure how much more busy it will get but so far it hasn't been too busy imo If they're going to make it "easier", it might actually make the job less engaging and therefore more monotone and boring I'd say

[@fullreinhard]

Happy to find myself in the same boat as funny Honkai man, Viper is a treat to play and I can’t see anything good coming out of making it any easier than it already is

[@matteagle9780]

Same here Its a simple and straight forward job. For that its fast pasted and it feels good. I think ppl are so used with autopilot on muscle memory that they cant deal with having a changing 123 combo

[@iResonate]

​@dl4071 it'll be boring af without positionals. There are a few wall bosses in Dawntrail and I've noticed that the rotation doesn't matter AT ALL when fighting them. Without positionals the rotation becomes trivial, whereas with positionals you have to think a bit.

[@BhangLIVE]

The longer recast on SAM's Tendo was meant to remove fillers from SAM's rotation, which I think a majority of SAM players were totally fine with. The major complaint people had was with the association of Meikyo Shisui and Tsubame-gaeshi, which made SAM's rotation way more rigid, made it way harder to maintain 100% Higanbana uptime without overlapping or using a cursed rotation, and way more punishing if you ever forget to press Tsubame after Tendo, since Tendo just eats your stack of Tsubame-gaeshi ready everytime it's cast. This just feels like the gameplay designers not listening to what the players actually want, and just making a rushed, useless change.

[@yanipheonu]

The problem with SAM these days is they just don't seem to know what they're doing with it. It's like adding Shoha 2 then taking it away in the next expansion. They really didn't think it through apparently.

[@godsplayingfield]

@@yanipheonu which is weird cause you'd think of all the DPS, Samurai would be the easiest to understand. you are the BLM of the melee's. you are there to cause big number. you have no support abilities. you do big number and that is all. so surely the main things you'd want to give Samurai is bigger numberer abilities, or ways to make your big number get bigger.

[@kennys6288]

Yes, this please. Can’t believe they’re totally ignoring this. Tsubame change is terrible.

[@ErrantMinds]

Yesh couldnt agree with this more. SAM was literally the most popular melee by the end of Endwalker. it didnt need this change and no one that knows what they are doing asked for this.

[@KaedysKor]

@@yanipheonu Weirdly, if Shoha 2 hadn't been _added later,_ I think a lot of people wouldn't have had as much issue with it. We already had that same sort of duality between Guren and Senei, between Shinten and Kyuten. One was a single-target spender, one was an AoE spender. Frankly, I don't understand what about the argument against Shoha 2 that doesn't _also_ just as relevantly apply to both Guren and Kyuten. Or Bloodletter and Rain of Death. Or Hellfrog vs Bhavacakra. Or Fester vs. Pain Flare. There are _numerous_ examples of ST/AoE duality in resource spenders. Honestly, I think the main thing people had a problem with in regards to Shoha 2 is that it was added later, as an "expansion feature", and felt extremely superfluous and low-effort as a result. At least with Senei, you get Guren _first,_ and Senei is the single target nuke upgrade. If Shona 2 had just been introduced at the same time as Shoha, I seriously doubt anyone would have been complaining about it (especially if they gave it a _better name!_ )

[@Fudce]

I feel the Red Mage one looks like a simple buff time buff, but is more critical than that. Our Manafication is the trigger for our lv100 capstone ability, but we can only trigger Prefulgence when we've done our complete 6 hit combo, which must be performed within that 15s window. Allowing the the GCD, that allows only a 3 second window for any adjustments needed or we lose our 900 potency 2min capstone attack. And remembering that 3 parts of the combo are all melee range, any movement or adjustment and it's gone.

[@amethonys2798]

Tbh that is the grievance I am having with Picto. Yeah, the job is super strong, but the leylines if they are going to be randomly forced should last a bit longer since they gate an 1100 potency attack. EX1 is beyond annoying trying to optimize them since on pull you have to constantly dodge back and forth into your leyline during movement that lines up on every 2 minute almost. At least outside of the pull you can use the 5 stacks on more instant casts, but that still requires you being in the leylines.

[@KaedysKor]

@@amethonys2798 Probably my most _serious_ grievance with Picto is that you cannot use Hyperphantasia stacks unless within the bounds of your drawn circle. If you have to move after placing it, your final Rainbow Drip just gets yeeted. I get not getting the damage buff if not in the area, and maybe even losing the haste buff, but we really need to still be able to burn those Phantasia stacks. Also wouldn't be sad if the area were a bit larger. I feel like a LOT of the new DT "capstones" have this issue. RDMs lose theirs if they are forced out of melee at the wrong time. Ninjas lose theirs if they're forced to interrupt Ten Chi Jin. Warriors lose theirs if they miss a Fel Cleave. The effect has been to make the 2-minute window that much more crucial, and that much more punishing if something goes awry.

[@lmpoknya]

Fun fact for people who haven't seen the stuff on the mnk balance discord. At the moment, before the job fix, its optimal to do "Bootshine -> Dragon Kick -> Raptor gcd -> Coeurl gcd -> loop", because dragon kick doesnt have a stance requirement to gain the leaden fist buff for bootshine. Its essentially pressing 1-1-2-3 instead of 1-2-3

[@limontree476]

Oddly enough I kinda enjoy it this way because it adds some nice optimization tricks with Perfect Balance and Fire's Reply. Bootshine > Dragon Kick > Fire's Reply > Bootshine > Dragon Kick > Perfect Balance > Boot Shine > Dragon Kick > Bootshine > Dragon Kick > Elixir Burst > Bootshine was a really strong burst tech, and fit into that niche optimization that Optimal Drift left behind

[@lmpoknya]

@@limontree476 im personally a fan of it too, but I was certain they were going to patch it since the class wasnt intended this way

[@sergel02]

Isn’t that 1-2-3-4? I’m guessing it’s because the Leaping Opo buffed skill is the most potency and doing it in 4 GCds is simpler quicker than going through the whole rotation.

[@dazzlemasseur]

​@@sergel024 doesn't exists. There's only 3 forms

[@Jambara]

lol when I read about the umbral ice MP recharge changes I immediately thought "what about low levels where you transpose to get an ice stack in between pulls so you start a new fight with full MP" because I've had to explain doing that to SO MANY new black mages over the years who just OOM and never transpose.

[@KaedysKor]

Ya, how they failed to think about just how hilariously atrocious that change was going to be at lower levels is beyond me. Honestly, BLM before Umbral Soul is cancer regardless, so I hope they move Umbral lower (like, say, 10 or 15) and don't do some stupid crap with Transpose instead. And then, hey, I dunno, maybe try introducing the _central filler spell_ earlier than level 60.

[@KyoThe3rd]

Remember fellow tanks, when garbing a group of adds, always double tap. Your Healers will thank you.

[@thomaslee9368]

Except when the AST drops Earthly Star because they think you're doing small pulls, lol.

[@noraptorshere8206]

Regens don't pull aggro any more, so healers don't really care now.

[@thomaslee9368]

@noraptorshere8206 wasn't referencing regens, just the fact that sometimes ground placed spells can get wasted if the rest of the party misunderstands the pause.

[@Naoto-kun1085]

They'll thank you by pulling ahead and getting aggro and expecting you to run around in circles trying to catch all the mobs they're running around with

[@idontmindpineappleonapizza9591]

Sorry, stupid question but, does double tap meant hitting aoes twice to mobs before continuing to aggro more in the dungeon? Is it so that they dont lose aggro?😅

[@siritachi31]

The interesting thing is if you look on the xiv forums people were saying that BLM would have a major issue regaining mp before umbral soul. weeks worth of posts were made. People could tell this would be an issue why did the devs not see the issue tho? I'm starting to thing they refuse to look at anything before max level, which is a major issue already because going back to old content with new jobs is such pain

[@ripvanwinkle3432]

Devs seem like they are letting xiv crash and burn. Its just more of the same since 2.0 with jobs no one cares about.

[@reiyun]

Praying they leave Picto damage alone after what they did to Reaper

[@johnstajduhar9617]

Bruh Reaper’s currently top of the dps charts

[@BToastyBro]

@@johnstajduhar9617yeah, get a party of a bunch of Lala Painters, and you’ll see how things melt.

[@nuclearsynapse5319]

It's definitely overtuned, but I don't want to see it doing less that SMN or RDM without a combat raise. As it stands the fact that it outcompetes not just BLM but SAM in aDPS is kinda crazy given that it has a party dps buff and a 10% party shield on what is effectively a 60 sec CD

[@dazzlemasseur]

Nope gonna be mega nerfed and your days of terrors are over hahahahaha

[@migz9205]

I dont think ast is gonna switch to 40s draw because it’ll mess up the sequence of lord of crowns during bursts. I think they’ll probably make it 55s so that its less likely to be drifted because currently, if you’re even 1gcd late on your odd minute draw then it screws everything else up lol. Making it 55s will make it a few gcd’s more flexible, because then the even minute draw will definitely be on cd during the burst unless you mess up by like 6+ gcds

[@RockR277]

I've only got VPR at 91, but it seems to flow super well. Are we about to see the all time record for needless job simplication? It's been less than a week and we're already here? For BLM though, I'm not a fan of the ice phase changes and thunder changes. Not a alt rotation thing, I just think it hasn't been nearly as fun. Doubt that's gonna change though. Glad Picto is fun.

[@illyrian94]

Definitely agree with you on the BLM front. I was really hoping to see something along the lines of their comments about Monk in the Black Mage section. Even as someone who has only played 'standard' rotations, the job just feels incredibly clunky with the Dawntrail changes. Potency I could care less about, I just want the job to feel fun. I'll probably just give Picto a shot.

[@Redcritxx]

i dont think its job simplification for viper i think if you tried bringing it to the 2 ex trials you would see 2 min burst are kinda insane with how busy it is + having to do mechanics if they kept the same fight design philosophy as they did in EW sure busy 2 min is fine but this new era of raid design it definitely need some changes

[@alexanderwilliams799]

Also agree on the BLM front. Was a BLM main, went to do a fate to test the new rotation and it felt so flat. Hated it. Now playing picto, and its fun af.

[@whitesta8685]

​​@@Redcritxx Viper probably has the easiest 2min out of any melee job. You just press along 5 buttons twice and thats it. You dont even have to look at your hotbar for it.

[@newbielolgaga]

@@Redcritxxbrother viper 2min burst is literally the easiest out of the melee dps. Wtf are you talking about. it’s literally 2 reawakened back to back with no position holy shit. People like you don’t even know what you are talking about. the reawakened combo is literally the shroud/communio, the other easy burst in the game.

[@typoguy13]

It’s not too difficult to remember the positionals on viper though, I don’t understand the need for change. I love how busy it is, it’s very fun to play

[@shizachan8421]

We are talking about a game that treats people who have dozens of hours of playtime and instanced content behind them as beginners who by no means could already know how to properly play the game because muh toxicity and muh elitism.

[@toxictripp]

Viper changes do NOT NEED TO HAPPEN

[@mr.gamingz]

No, but they WILL. Just accept it.

[@BLKM4NTI5]

@@mr.gamingz Nah, what we need to do is be louder than the fucking smooth brains making noise on the forums. It’s that simple.

[@BlackXSunlight]

I don't understand why the positionals for Dreadwinder would make it so much more drastically busy, it's the exact same mech as Reaper's Blood Stalk > Soul Slice/Scythe that also has positionals. If there's one thing I wish would change, it's the button conversion into Generation/Legacy. It's great they're trying to reduce future button bloat, but I'm a controller-user with cross hotbars, and I put the basic single-target combo buttons in positions that make sense to make brain exactly as I did for RPR and SAM, except those buttons then become a totally different combo for the Anguine burst. I like where my Steel/Dread Fang are. I don't like where First Generation and Second Generation are, but they're tied to Steel Maw and Dread Maw.

[@silvinity4939]

I don't know if this will help you, but for my layout, which is on kb, I actually go Steelfang->dreadfang->hunters den->swiftskin den for the generations. So it's ST ST AoE AoE since both the single target and AoE skills get changed for the generations.

[@BlackXSunlight]

@@silvinity4939 I'm on controller using cross hotbars :(

[@toomanyinterests2271]

​@@BlackXSunlightI know this might not help but for burst phases if they feel off in someway on controller I turn one side of one of my cross hotbars into a burst phase hotbar.

[@BlackXSunlight]

@@toomanyinterests2271 I’m testing that out in a bit. Feels weird having buttons mapped multiple times but I might have to for my own sanity

[@kriesas]

@@BlackXSunlight Yeah, I know what you mean with the weird multiple buttons procing the same ability. Dancer is the same way with its dance steps... It's just something you have to deal with on WXHB. The way I have it mapped is that the Fangs are on right side on the R2, and the Coils are on the same places on L2 so that I don't need to hit left side at any point during Reawaken. Hope that helps!

[@runicex2310]

For the record Astros aren't complaining about a full GCD lost like Blood lily was. It was 20 potency.

[@KaedysKor]

THE END IS NIGH!! >.>

[@dazzlemasseur]

I say just tell everyone to drift THEIR rotation to fit in with AST.

[@jacobtridef48]

I’ve def noticed the tank aggro issue a fair bit. Used to almost NEVER notice it, before. But in DT the aggro jumps around for a bit, til the tank aoes like 3-4 times in some pulls.

[@Shadow.Darkraven]

i like the more range but busy feeling? im not 100 yet but i love the flow it has and I'm assuming if i hit 100 before the changes i would love the flow of how fast it goes

[@mattamop]

As a player on balmung, this was the smoothest release. My queue times were in the double digits during peak hours

[@juggtuggler361]

one 'big' complaint i've had since EW, in terms of tank gap closers, why do all the tanks get them at such different levels when they did the same thing. like PLD gets it at 74, WAR gets it at 62, GNB 56 and DRK at 54. why does PLD get the skil 20 levels later?

[@iPlayOnSpica]

"Because Holy Spirit being a 25y attack puts PLD at an advantage" or something like that. I think it's dumb and all tanks should get gap closers at lvl 54-56.

[@dazzlemasseur]

Because they do t care about players QoL before Lvl 80. The content is dead anyway (free)

[@ShabadoobieVT]

SAM Main weighing in. The longer recast of Tendo Setsugekka is probably so they could fit its long animation in.

[@RekiWylls]

I thought it was an attempt to make the rotation loop nicely every 60 seconds instead of the weird 61s (or whatever it was) loop they had before.

[@f1reman237]

Its acctually the opposite. The rotation is now a 61s loop, and use to be 60s ​@@RekiWylls. The recast change fucked up a lot of sam timings

[@HyouVizer]

feels like the devs don't actually play test a lot of the jobs fully even at lower levels and it shows.

[@Mpearl33]

Playing picto since early release and yea it’s very strong the first 20 seconds. Then once you have to stop and cast your motifs again it’s a steady drop off, we don’t get dots to maintain damage.

[@nuclearsynapse5319]

the consistent damage is definitely very strong though. In a WoD I had with several picto's they killed the cloud before she managed to cast her big hit that she charges while sucking in clouds. I had an 8 minute Aurum Vale clear. Eight. Minutes.

[@Mpearl33]

@@nuclearsynapse5319 yea they prob all saved hammers for burn faze, guaranteed crits that get higher damage every swing. But, to recast all your big motifs over again is 6 seconds of no damage being put out, not counting dodging mechanics during a 2 sec cast

[@nuclearsynapse5319]

@@Mpearl33 ok, so firstly the motifs don't do "no damage". For creature motifs each cast is equivalent to 1550 potency. This includes the living muse casts and adds mog of the ages, spreading its damage across the 2 casts. The calc on hammer motif is harder, and I won't do it, but instant cast crit direct hits at the potency of your combo ender (at level 50) are worth a single cast. Also 2 second casts aren't hard. Source: I play BLM

[@kokayinewsome9308]

All i play is Ninja, Machinist, and Viper now. Idk why each time someone wants to play a class, they assume someone has to make a meta blueprint before they decide if they like it. A coworkers refuses to play Pictomancer until someone decides the "rIGHt" way to play it. MAKE EACH CLASS YOUR OWN. DO WHAT YOU WANT. MAKE IT WORK. THAT'S IT.

[@ScottJuencke]

Viper feels absolutely phenomenal and I’m disappointed in the idea of them changing it, especially so soon.

[@gavinerickson9392]

I wish Solar Bahamut didn't play EXACTLY like the other two big summons.

[@cattysplat]

But then SE would actually have to be creative.

[@Cyiel568]

And that's unacceptable. Imagine SMN having fun...

[@tristancrowe1695]

Hopefully the exra card draws will keep the same mp bonus. Depending on how much they adjust it, it may allow for more play and less holding during filler phases.

[@darrensanderson1031]

The tank thing is hilarious. This is exactly why I’ve always done ‘move in, use one AoE combo on a pack, *then* move to the next pack’ while tanking

[@shinon748]

problem is solved if you just double tap and go. one more gcd used to secure AoE aggro doesnt really slow down a dungeon run.

[@Chaotique0]

@@shinon748 Not really. Even with two AoE from the tank, I take the aggro back of half the pack in only two or three skills with picto or sumoner. Before, with sumoner, I used to get one or two then I run on the tank, but now it's really half of it in every packs.

[@Reinshark]

DRK and GNB getting some enmity on their gap closers is a nice quality of life change, even without damage. Dashing at a FATE mob when you're trying to gather them up, for instance, only for the enemy to COMPLETELY ignore you after you jumped at its face (because the abilities currently build no enmity) was strange.

[@ClydeJHatbird]

So, in other words, they should've just left Plunge and Rough Divide alone? Just like they did for WAR & PLD's gap closers? Honestly, some of these DT changes have been baffling to me.

[@whitelightning7777]

I think the emnity issue is more than just tanks who hit AOE once and then run off. I usually do my AOE combo once with an AOE OGCD and then run off and use my ranged attack while going through the enemy list, and I still have some isssue with aggro being ripped away. Now admittedly this is mostly an issue when I have a Picto in the group. And then there's the gap closer issue for DRK and GNB where you go up to the mobs and as you're trying to AOE, they ignore you and go straight for the party. Or they're not all grouped up and 3 or 4 pass by you as your AOE only got one of them.

[@judicatoraven]

ive found the longer recast timers on say viper's oroboros is the accommodate the longer animation. Perhaps that was their thought with the samurai skills.

[@RevoltIsTaken]

I hope they increase the range of Twinfang and Twinblood so we can GCD and the during our forced double ogcd we can dodge mechanics. Giving those abilities 6y or even 10y range would let us consistently use our double ogcd window without being punished for mechanics not allowing perfect uptime

[@TheBADProductions]

adding range to the twinfang/twinblood weaves after hunter's coil/swiftskin's coil would be nice - it'd be like when they added range to continuation

[@Firestar1992]

I’ve been maining Astro this expansion. As a casual player, I’ve only really ever touched lightspeed when I’m trying to rez multiple people. I just don’t really have a good place to put it where I can think to use it regularly. I am happy about the shortened Draw timers because I tend to go through my cards pretty fast and then I’ve got 15-30 seconds left waiting for the next batch.

[@animecookies8784]

Lightspeed is also good in situations where you have to move and dps

[@EdgeGilid]

base from what i've experienced, i've only have issues holding agro whenever picto is in the party

[@WolfstarGaming1]

I picked up Picto while I'm going through the story, it's a bit of a jumble since it's such a new job I look forward to seeing how it feels in actual practice. I've got all the jobs to 90 and my White Mage is almost 100 now so I'll be able to start dabbling in them more soon.

[@lv.99mastermind45]

This is more related to a personal skill issue, but I'm okay with some slight tweaks to current astro. In the past, because of draw having charges, there was always *some* leniancy to making sure you had a moment to chose when to weave your redraw. Currently, you have to be 100% on schedule with your redraw, or your reopener is going to be severely delayed. Another issue is the combination of mechanics that simply cannot be ignored while having to very strictly maintain said schedule. An example would be two minutes into the 93 EX, during the fire puddle stacks. It's not a super difficult heal check, but it can't be ignored. So I have to either choose between a full clean card reopener, or having a severely scattered two minute window throughout the rest of the fight, something that'd be mostly mended if draw was set to 40 seconds instead of 60, similar to how it used to be. Stuff like that could be personally ammended by having the other healer strain a little more, (or in pf, just cross my fingers), but I'm not 100% sure this is the intention that's wanted for parties with astro going forward.

[@crosssquirrel4293]

I feel the black mage change will be with Transpose, because before umbral souls, is what you have to use for keeping your Enochian trait all the time and at level 70 to get a stack of Polyglot when on downtime or running certain dungeon or raid areas. Maybe they make transpose recover mo when you use it?

[@HeroGuy3]

I think they're just going to make umbral soul lower level and add a trait that makes it generate umbral hearts at either 76 or the same level you get B4 at

[@clumsyturtle8544]

Thought Viper was fine, it's just the range on the skills needed to not be 0y feels like you need to stand on the hitbox to press your buttons.

[@IroShimizu]

I'm going through msq with picto and a friend told me about thunder skip and my immediate reaction was "that's stupid, there's no way that's staying" and i am glad i was right.

[@SekundesCCFFVII]

There's also a WAR change on the French version of the post, about doing double Primal Ruinations.

[@crimsonshenanigan1854]

Haven't played Viper but it seems alot of ppl like it how it is not sure how it scales to the other melees however I still feel it should be left alone afterall thats the job thats been tested most aside from picto

[@WickdGamr]

I’d like to see the option for viper to separate the positionals from the auto changing abilities. Can’t be bothered to remember what the skills turn into so would like to place positionals on keybinds that make it a bit automatic in my mind.

[@kevinyonson]

Honestly, I am pretty happy they are doing something about the emnity issue on our dashes. because the fact it doesn't do damage anymore, it doesn't immediately pull the pack and have them circle around me where I can aoe and start growing emnity. I solved this by using my Lightning Shot and then dash it. Although it doesn't feel good because i'm still on CD and can't use my next ability right away. As for the Emnity AOE increase, I find it odd. To me, it has always been 2 AOE at minimum to keep aggro, but I do have the case where my allies start bursting the first pack down quickly and I do lose aggro. Usually I remedy this by using my DOT AOE (bowshock) on the first pack. It's not the most efficient since I should be using it on all 2 packs, but it is what it is. If i know my roulette group doesn't go too ham on the first pack, I save the bowshock for both packs.

[@amethonys2798]

Depends on the jobs tbh. Picto has absurd prio damage on whoever they hammer or use their OGCD on which isn't unlikely to rip threat like 4 globals in compared to a tank's like 200 potency aoe filler.

[@kevinyonson]

@@amethonys2798 yeah, I haven't seen it yet myself, but I might soon when doing my roulettes. I think I'd be content if they raised the emnity generation on AOE by a smidge where 2 aoes are still required, but picto shouldn't be pulling right away. *shrugs* we will see.

[@SH1NK1R01]

I have not once ever lost aggro to anyone at any point while leveling or while tanking the last dungeons. I have however pulled aggro from several tanks when leveling dps. So honestly it’s a skill issue I don’t know what else to say here. Square will cover it up like they always do though. So the community will be sheltered from self improvement and personal responsibility once again.

[@stewarde17]

the only issue I have with the dash is it should work no matter target or npc since it don't do dmg anymore

[@RKumono]

Yes, I've had similar experiences. Dashing no longer pulls the pack to you--it puts you close. As soon as your DPS see you dash, they blast, and all the pack rushes back to the others. I've not even been using dash, I've been running at normal speed and opening with AoE to hopefully keep the DPS from seeing me say "CHAAARGE!"

[@louisagneray8217]

I'll take the SAM change, that tendo setsugekka is nice but the 2.73 cooldown when everything else is 2.13 is insane. It just feels out of place, especially considering the long animations gets cut off by Shinten/Shoha/Zanshin/Senein most of the time

[@NotTheWheel]

I tried switching to my monk the other day and the first thing was my forbidden chakra button was grayed out and I had to fix it mid fight. It feels very weird to play atm.

[@Digitalreign89]

My only wish for Viper is to let me split up the 1,2,3 rotation. Visually I understand the job better if I can lay out the whole combo and not have it just swap to the next skill

[@xylune9684]

I think they might increase the range of vipers ogcd's, similar to what they did for continuation on gunbreaker

[@TCSyd]

Range adjustments for Viper might be the Continuation treatment for their oGCDs (3y -> 5y)?

[@DeadEye935]

Never saw this kind of post on future changes before, interesting. I'm glad they're aware of black mage issues and are working to fix them. Kinda bummed at its current state but hopefully they turn it around

[@25xxfrostxx]

The RDM change is because you have 15 seconds to do the entire 6 hit combo including weaves or you can't use your level 100 ability at all. Half the time the buff fades before you can use it so the ability is largely pointless.

[@Levi_Skardsen]

I think the reason tendo has a slightly longer recast is that they wanted you to see the full animation. The animation is really cool, but it's not necessary.

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

My theory from their wording is the 2 skills you use adter dreadwinder will now only give one ogcd to weave, and instead of the 3rd hit in the combo being rear or flank on either button will be changed to each button having one button. Meaning for example the steel fangs buttons 3rd hit will always be a flank and dread fangs 3rd hit will always be a rear. I hope I'm wrong but its the only thing i can think of from their wording.

[@wilcowhiteheart807]

Afaik, its possibly either they are removing the positionals from the Steel and Dread Fangs, or from the Coils, but no matter how you look at it, the fact its happening so fast is stupid. We havent let the job breathe yet, and already its getting nerfed postional wise

[@johnsnow1749]

More range on Viper's Reawaken combo would be great specifically for AOE in dungeons.

[@KanetsidohiKanotoush]

I was worried about the changes to Black Mage because I thought they were going to ruin the fun for me In the end, the changes were the least of the bad things which have ruined the fun for me in Dawntrail, it was so unexpected that it would be funny if it wasn't sad Edit: As I expected, AOE is trash now, even with all the crit I have I've been running low level dungeons for my ARR relic, and now, at level 90+, my AOEs don't kill packs of mobs in one go like they did before In ARR Alliance raids, I have to constantly remind me myself about mana because it runs out after a couple of AOE fire attacks

[@angelsoflolz]

Note that high fire 2 is actually bad to use for optimal aoe now. Flare spam is the way if you know how (something like freeze, filler, transpose, flare, flare, flarestar, repeat?)

[@KanetsidohiKanotoush]

@@angelsoflolz I don't care I'm a casual with a bad BUT FUN FOR ME rotation which, before Dawntrail, was melting everything without a care about mana Now, either I had to stop doing something or can't do it in the first place because I need to manage my mana. Such fun! If I could play like before, at least I'd have something to do once I finally can leave anything DT related for good before my sub runs out

[@gramt4685]

@@KanetsidohiKanotoush Funny isn't it. In trying to make BLM more "appealing" or "streamlined" they actually made it annoying/impossible for anyone not doing the specific intended rotation. Not to mention the extremely obvious mana upkeep oversight they introduced with this that everyone saw coming a mile away as soon as we heard of the changes. Square job design team are showing their continued mediocrity this go around.

[@KaedysKor]

Interesting side-effect of the Manafication change: it makes it easier to use a downtime Manafication. Depending on fight timing, it can be worth using Manafication and essentially wasting the melee combo from it if you still get the same number of uptime usages during the fight and get a bonus Prefulgence from the downtime one. Vercure can be used to trigger the 6 stacks of Manafication and thus activate Prefulgence, even without something to attack. However, since the stacks are intended for the melee combo (which takes ~12.7s), not casting, the window is currently rather tight (they last 15s, and 6x Vercures is 15s of GCDs). So extending the duration has an interesting effect of making this easier to pull off, though it should still be, hopefully, a rarity. Also makes dropping a GCD in the middle of Manafication less of a problem (ex. unexpected out of melee), and less likely to lose you a usage of Prefulgence, which is a really nice benefit.

[@unixtreme]

Viper is fine.

[@ticien1]

Kinda crazy to hear mch needs number buffs im still gonna make it my first dps to 100 they look dope af

[@stepanbaranov8459]

The biggest thing they need is auto crossbow cd reduction for ricochet and gauss AND the replacement of (now that anathman is gone) the number 1 useless skill/emote in the game - flamethrower.

[@shinon748]

its been a historical problem for the job. its supposed to be a selfish dps like blm, sam, and vpr. But it never had the numbers to really feel like it.

[@ticien1]

@@shinon748 I was kinda hoping too with smaller hitbox bosses and mechanics that I heard make melee unable to maintain 100% that I could get better dps thru uptime if fights were designed that way

[@CorynSilver]

I actually just learned today that the Coil actions after Dreadwinder had positionals, completely missed it in the tooltips. Guess I should have assumed it was like Reaper’s Gibbet and Gallows, and subsequently thought Enshroud had positionals XD Side note, I kinda wish PCT’s Motif and Muse actions shared a button. I see no reason they need to be separate buttons on the hot bar, especially when Hammer Muse only activates a buff and nothing else, with the actual attack being a third button.

[@Polychromatic8]

I also missed the positional for those moves as well. I definitely don't want them gone though, and will be using them now

[@Shenrai96]

Figures I get excited for a new job, hoping it's busy because I like actually doing things in combat and in not even a week people skill issue us into an announcement that they're just making it as simple as everything else.

[@thomaslee9368]

I actually wasn't aware picto was overtuned, must be the learning curve for the job, cuz i've been seeing a lot of "new" mechanics to old dungeons and trials, lol. Honestly, its been a lot of fun to heal and tank. I just unlocked the level 91 dungeon, and am looking forward to running it later tonight.

[@cynrid8209]

Ive been trying to level up every combat class for each expansion before moving on, right now i just hit stormblood and have been trying to get through the first part of it, but its been pretty hard.. the rotation confuses me.. now more than ever with the recent changes. But the new gauge with all the different chakras is most confusing.. i hope it gets easier

[@AZodiacCancer]

I'm on primal, and we only had 1k queues about 2 times on Excal. Which was on early access and when the datacenters crashed because of technical issues. Which I'm glad because back in EW I almost wanted to quit itw as so bad.

[@darkultra9605]

I'm still hoping they change some of picto's ability sounds, so that they're no longer copy pasted from sage. I keep thinking I'm using dosis by mistake lol it's a instinct at this point to check

[@HikingFeral]

Bard and dancer should gain some more support and Machinist should do the most damage for obvious reasons. Square however seems afraid to have each job be it's own thing.

[@douglasmitchell5033]

I am a WAR mainly. I have beat main scenario and am lvl 100. I had no trouble holding agro/hate in play. I think Dawntrail is excellent. I am thinking of trying out Viper.

[@KincaidtheHedgehog]

As long as they just fix Monk's potencies and the form issues, I'll be happy. I like the fury gauge.

[@CloudHiro]

honestly if im stealing mobs enmity from our main tank for ultimates there definitely need some adjustments. pictomancer burst is FAR too beefy

[@AsghanRS]

Solution to Tank problem, AoE Twice. Like i have been doing since ARR, like i've been doing since WoW 1.0.

[@N00bie666]

"Just slow down and waste time" is what you just said. im good. the changes are needed

[@v8046]

​@@N00bie666name checks out

[@Falconator1]

Tried it to see if it makes a difference; if the Picto zergs hard enough on one minion they'll still get aggro. Which would be fine if players catch up with the tank but instead they run away and move the minion away from my ranged attack / Provoke. Oh well, with the update back to just 1 AoE, looking forward to it.

[@Chaotique0]

My friend, playing tank, always do two aoe because she know that, playing SMN, I always get the aggro back. And even before I had always one or two mobs on me and I just run on her so she can get it back. Now, even with the two AOE, as a Picto for Dawntrail, I do two skill and I have half the pack on me immediately, not just one or two. And if the healer is not fast enough (or my friend, thanks PLD), I'm almost dead even before reaching her. And that's the same with SMN. So yeah, there is a problem right now that even two AoE like before can't solve.

[@Stigmaphobia777]

@@N00bie666 "I don't want to spend even 2.5s playing the game more than I need to." Is what you just said. I'm good. What's important is the quality of time spent not how much.

[@zerofox3075]

I feel viper is just right..I was thinking about how I missed actually doing combos and positioning

[@Shizukanexen]

WHM was my second job through, after DRG, went to level AST on my secondary girl and... It just feels so strong so far. I'm surprised people complained it feels like it always has so much more to deal with stuff than WHM. I wonder if it will still feel the same at 100.

[@kunstlerischesetwas1284]

I love the busyness of current viper. It leaves room for a lot of skill expression and self improvement, which is rewarded with high dps. The positional requirements make you think about your rotation and makes it so, that it actually matters which buttons you press. Edit: Don't read replies. Only people with bad takes.

[@SUCCUB0I]

I just don't like positionals so the less I have to do the more fun I'm having.

[@Exaltable]

It really doesn’t have that expression at all lol… it just is very punishing to miss inputs and they have no business making it even easier

[@kriesas]

@@Exaltable It's bizarre to me that the combo doesn't gate off the incorrect buttons. Why do the Coil skills not just light up ONLY twinfang or twinblood, and then only light up the opposite relevant button in the combo? It's needlessly punishing, especially while learning. Sure, you have the opportunity to misinput on your 1-2-3 on any job at any time, but Twinfang and Twinblood are only accessible after Coiling to begin with. It just seems like an oversight.

[@KaedysKor]

@@kriesas Honestly, my beef with Twinfang and Twinblood is that their recast it soo short. The oGCDs on it have a recast of only 1.0s, and when you're trying to double-weave them back to back, key spam is a thing. It's too easy to accidentally double-cast one of the two instead of doing one then the other, imo. Increasing the recast on them to 1.5s, or even 2.5s, would be sufficient for this. There's _never_ a case where you're going to want to double-warve the same Twin button anyway. Also, I really don't think Serpent's Tail deserves to exist. Imo everything that currently goes to Serpent's Tail should just pop up on both Twinfang and Twinblood. Having _three_ different "various oGCDs will show up here" is a metric pain, imo.

[@omegaxtrigun]

⁠@@KaedysKorYou have no idea what youre talking about lol. The recast on the twin abilities is that short because you double weave them. If you increased the recast, youd clip super hard. This is just a skill issue. I spam mine like 2-3 times and they work fine 99% of the time. This job has few buttons already. How is it hard to have 3 ogcd buttons?

[@Serph2006]

I hope with viper they just make the potency a little higher if you're out of position rather than remove some positional requirements entirely, that would suck.

[@shadowjoker285]

I'm so glad the Enmity stuff is getting sorted as I do the and are attack 2 times and then use my only range attack or not at all if like now with the new dungeons and stuff. And half way to the next Mob area I lose Enmity and one will attack a teammate and I'm like wtf!?

[@NabaniSaa]

I hope they give PCT Holy in White a buff as well cause ignoring for the most part kinda feels rough, ngl

[@undeadNova]

another sad day for job changes

[@MrJoshy]

This is my first time learning about the thunder skip...welp

[@skyhunterrhythe5674]

For the viper changes, I agree it will be to the coils, not the basic 1-2-3. I think this has to do with players on controller. When you play on controller, rapid positional changes have to be mapped to the face buttons, otherwise you have to use your wrists or swap hands on the thumbsticks in order to be able to actually move from a rear straight into a flank or vice versa. Largely not an issue… except for when you are adding oGCDs that have to also happen between the positionals, which also have to be mapped to the face buttons. Almost the entirety of Viper’s kit has to be mapped the the face buttons of a controller right now, or you have to have enough skill with controller use that you can move with the wrist or use right hand on left thumbstick while using your wrist for the camera. It’s not impossible but it is extremely uncomfortable to play for someone not on mouse and keyboard, and I imagine that is where the changes are. This is the first job to have so many abilities that need to be on the face buttons specifically. The only alternative to any of this is mapping the entire AOE rotation to a double-click trigger and that’s extremely unintuitive, because the double trigger pull is not always very responsive due to needing to completely release the trigger then reapply for it to count as a double-tap. It’s very cumbersome to get in and out of in the heat of battle.

[@MikeShikle]

Completely unrelated question, but does anyone have a link to the time Mr Happy and Sly played FF14 D&D?

[@biandmc978]

Looking good Mr Happy!

[@Glenningway]

Viper positionals aren't that bad. I play on controller and it's one of the most fluid jobs I've played in a long time. It is a bit on the busy side, but I like it. They want less busy they can always roll a tank.

[@wiirkirbys6981]

The big problem with BLM is the lightning changes, mostly. In single target, High Thunder isn’t actually an upgrade- it has the exact same total potency as a Thunderclouded Thunder III, except it’s lower upfront potency means it’s a bigger damage loss to use it early for mobility. For AOE it’s even more egregious: not only did losing thundercloud mean a massive damage loss (even without the DoT it was more damage than flare does right now), High Fire II and High Blizzard II are so bad you just use transpose instead.

[@saitomitsurugi18]

Also give back Ice Paradox and Sharpcast. Why did they get rid of Sharpcast? ;~;

[@s07195]

Wow what happened to BLM between expansions ​@@saitomitsurugi18

[@nuclearsynapse5319]

@@saitomitsurugi18 Sharp is gone because you just automatically get firestarter from paradox and thunderhead is supposed to be an automatic thundercloud proc. I definitely foresee a buff to high thunder's potency, it's something that wouldn't force them to also increase other potencies. Fire 4 would mean despair and flare star would have to be buffed too. Also I think the potency loss to high fire 2 and flare was unnecessary and may be reverted but less confident.

[@saitomitsurugi18]

Wait that's why? I haven't looked at all of the changes. I didn't know the potencies were bad. I just miss it because it saved my ass so many times.

[@1011skarn]

Just started the video, let me know when they make AST good, and DRK is not completely behind all other tanks in self sustain.

[@VenganceAngel19]

just added my thoughts to the Viper video as well LOL, but definitely Reawakening needs more range not for the single target usage, but for AOE mobbing, if an enemy aoe aims dead center of the trash mobs, its annoying that Reawakening and its subsequent attacks dont have the range to still hit most of the mobs while you move out of the enemy's AOE

[@Glennkabob]

If you want an example of BLM potency problems, as of current, it is almost completely worthless to cast High Blizzard 2 and High Fire 2 during dungeon pulls, it is instead preferable to transpose into umbral ice, cast freeze, instant cast, transpose, cast flarex2, cast flare star, instant cast, repeat

[@tsbulmer]

This! For those unfamiliar with the situation, potency isn't just about balance - it affects the rotation. In AoE, if Flarestar is instant, Transpose > Freeze > Freeze > Transpose (with clipping!) > AF1HF2 is stronger than the intended rotation.

[@badtiming2208]

The GNB/DRK change is bigger than you'd think. Currently, gap-closing doesn't draw aggro, which means mobs remain spread out. Your AoE is not big enough to hit everyone spread out, so you're forced to remain for another AoE GCD. This just lets them experience a smoother time Wall-to-Wall pulling in dungeon, similar in feel to previous expansions

[@UltimegaSeven]

Skill issue. I didnt even know aggro loss was a thing until i saw this post. And I knew it was gonna happen. Tanks have gotten accustomed to not pulling bosses with tomahawk or whatever and pulling with a dash. Its annoying as fuck because the boss isnt positioned correctly and now its seeping into dungeons

[@Xerkrosis]

@@UltimegaSeven Two different situations. Boss pulls aren't the problem, it's the pulls of mob packs in dungeons. Atm the 0 damage dashes don't affect the mobs, which have them ignore the tank until a few moments later either the face pull triggers or you cast an AoE. These few moments slow already down the flow, because the mobs aren't moving in that short time. The dashes just need any target-directed effect, like 1 dmg or a weak provoke.

[@bigfupa69]

Oh so wait, is the GNB gapcloser gonna draw aggro now?! This was my biggest gripe in losing it as an attack

[@NicholasAllen15]

Soooo maybe it's just me, but I usually do at a MINIMUM 2 aoe gcd buttons per pull. Having played since 2.0, I remember the abysmal emnity/damage stance dancing and having to always make sure I hit everything at least once. Like it's not that hard hurting the next aoe button in your combo to keep aggro

[@nakajhereg]

@@NicholasAllen15 I do the same, but that doesn't change the dps that cant keep it in their pants and full burst meanwhile u run. espec pictos are extremely guilty of this and pull aggro. I espec "like" if they even stand still at the spot they started casting, completely at the other end of the wall to wall pull. obv this has always been a problem, but the other expansions u could still keep aggro in most cases anyway. but since picto is rly busted in terms of dmg u have now the players that don't understand wall to wall at all with dmg they honestly shouldn't have.

[@robbiepellagreen]

Oh man, glad there’s no Picto nerfs coming. Have seen some discourse about them being overpowered but unless something drastically changes at 90, I’m yet to see how this could be the case. Yeah the burst window is really beefy but everything outside of that hits softly enough to counter that lol.

[@alexandrekayotsu]

Isn't the Viper's 1-2-3 one on the sides and one on the back? Hind and Flank.

[@l.k.2355]

Astro still needs tweaking- there is nothing for astro to work towards only wait for. But these changes seem really cool.

[@TKimsanity]

This is not the problem I have with Viper. What I really have issue with is that it gets fucked when the boss is untargetable. There’s nothing it can charge in the meantime, and you can’t immediately reawaken after the boss becomes targetable again because you need to spend time reapplying your buffs and noxious gnash when everyone else is already going into their burst. I guarantee you this will rear its ugly head in FRU, and unless this is what gets addressed, I will never consider Viper for ultimates

[@talancorwell]

Meanwhile picto can have up to 12 seconds of uptime while the boss is untargetable 🤣

[@Auesis]

Uh, welcome to SAM's world lol. Yes you have meditate but the buffs can and will drop during basically any downtime, and you just refresh them when the boss returns with Meikyo, exactly the same as Dreadwinder on Viper (and DW is a monstrous amount of potency as is).

[@TKimsanity]

@@Auesis see that's the thing: you have meditate. Viper doesn't even have that. Even if Viper's version would've been weaker, I would've been happy with any sort of downtime compensation, but there's nothing, which is my main issue.

[@mocmeo4425]

welcome to the suffering of a gunbreaker, they probably won't ever change it either