"You're Valuing This Pre Revenue At 2.7 Million?" | SEASON 18 | Dragons' Den

Gina Dorodvand and Hawaa Budraa are next to see how they brush up in The Den. They're seeking an investment of £70,000 for 2.6% of their dental device, The Uunn which uses technology to measure the percentage of plaque the user has via an app and subscription service. However, The Dragons couldn't figure out where their 2.7 million valuation came from.
Season 18, Episode 2
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
#DragonsDen #Technology #BusinessPitch

[@stealthattack2209]

It is truly remarkable when entrepreneurs value their business in millions without earning a single penny.

[@salahaddin2009]

Tragic and funny. The Touker deal likely would have helped. They still haven’t made a penny

[@AliHussain-fz7pd]

Tech is another beast altogether. The burn rate is so high, the valuations are crazy, but when it goes right it's a lottery because it allows huge scale and only a small number of staff. Instagram is a 50 man unit. I think they got what they wanted out of this - exposure. Whether or not they receive the investment is the key question.

[@TheTwsa]

prepaying costumers pump the belief and value, seemingly, to skyhigh levels where there is no oxygen....

[@babdullah5025]

Sometimes it's just about luck 😢

[@TheTwsa]

If they have a promising new approach or skills without actually having put this at work, then it is potentially attractive, BUT then investor may need a large chunk of the company.

[@saintjimmy456]

Every single time entrepeneurs offer less than 5% equity... Peter: pretends he didn't hear them correctly, asks them to repeat it, then looks at the other dragons in disbelief.

[@stealthattack2209]

LOL

[@MIGHTYBOOSCH198]

To be fair it's like the the entrepreneurs don't watch the show.

[@TheTwsa]

@@MIGHTYBOOSCH198 THe entrepreneurs see how the dragons sable down valuation so the make it ekstra high in order to have something to deal with......?

[@lesleyseetso3952]

The cavity between their valuation couldn't be filled 😅😂😂The Commentator is on point

[@Squish-TheUrbanScribe]

🤣

[@imranasghar8690]

I bet you wished you could fill their cavity

[@coldestbeer]

Your teeth's got cavity

[@someoneanyone884]

Yoo 😂😂😂

[@beancheese3148]

She talked so fast she didn’t realize she was debunking the need for her product 🤣🤣 “You get lots and lots of those. Use them everyday for two months and it could cost you £2-3.”

[@jacksonsmith5490]

I'm like "sh*t, I gotta look into those!"

[@mhuandakayombo9580]

Deborah is💯 right not everything can be app-able

[@namnack]

Another massively over-engineered solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[@skoumastv]

Exactly waisting money that could be used to feed less fortunate people

[@Noelhall88]

Precisely

[@jackking9271]

@@skoumastv lol always with the poor kids

[@Farquad76.547]

@@skoumastv you’re such a damn eejit

[@skoumastv]

@@jackking9271 yes till the of times. Till Jesus returns

[@Mark-yk1ny]

Peter was right. It really was like watching a KZbin video 😆🤣

[@thegunner4141]

he was talking about they way they spoke when hes there to talk about their product, barely gave an opinion and ran

[@sammyb1651]

🤣Underrated comment!👍

[@Revived786]

What a ridiculous counter to TS' 30%!!! That response says it all.

[@stealthattack2209]

They have obviously already handed out a large percentage of shares to existing investors and don't have much room. Maybe they just came in for the free advertisement lol

[@andrewsheridan6805]

Im not a dentist, but doesn't the vast majority of plaque form behind your teeth? This only solves half the "problem".

[@Adrian-lc6jq]

When you smile people can't see the plaque behind your teeth so it doesn't matter

[@cyrus9043]

@@Adrian-lc6jq surely its about teeth health? if its just about appearances just use something for whitening them

[@kb4432]

Spot on mate

[@anisdesai4692]

Yep I was thinking the same thing. I find my self scraping the inner base of my back molars more then my canines.

[@billymabum3514]

@@Adrian-lc6jqhahaha of course it matters you numpty

[@canag0d]

Ignore the valuation and the entrepreneurs arrogance… This idea is HORRIBLE!!! ANYONE who is not only willing to spend the $ to buy this + take the time to use this is already brushing and flossing properly and visiting the dentist multiple times a year. So they already know their dental health and from a professional dentist and not a generic piece of hardware. Even if it does work and someone uses it… What are they to do with that info? They’re already going to the dentist and brushing properly? If you find out you have plaque build up (that somehow your brushing didn’t solve and the dentist didn’t see) what then? Do you go to the dentist more or brush more? I mean it’s a completely useless product. And for people with poor dental hygiene… They would never use this either. They alrdy know they have plaque and do nothing aboot it already. This might be the single worst product I have ever seen.

[@mrhaltonok]

So, looked at Companies House and the business is now called Onaria Technologies. Both women are still directors of the company but the UUNN app is still pre order and the company only lists 30k of assets and no sales. Earliest PR for the company online dates to 2016 so after seven years they’ve still not launched it which seems to suggest it may never come out. All looks very professional but two years after their DD appearance you can bet if they’d taken the investment they’d have been out and making money for the last year

[@afcwfcwfc]

Hi and thank you for the info saves me looking it up 👍

[@raymondberg7385]

I looked up Gina on linkedIn and it appears she quit the company in 2021 but was working full time (i doubt that though) until then..

[@brandmotivo]

Read between the lines. They've had investments from so many places they couldn't take the offer because they don't have 30% to give away. They've basically bled the ownership away, That's why they could only give 0.3%. The game is up on the silly product they conceived and that's why they've probably walked away from it.

[@bryanidk6064]

wondered how do they survive all these years without a salary

[@salahaddin2009]

Lol this is tragic. I wish people would test the waters more than ploughing money I’m very risk things . Take calculated risks fine but not a shot on the dark

[@EnJayMelbourne]

£2.7 million company that isn't doing anything. How ridiculous. These people are living in fantasy land. All that money they have raised before has simply been wasted. Touker makes them a very generous offer in exchange for 30% & they were foolish enough to try to negotiate him down to 3.5% 😂😂🤣🤣 OMG.... Some people. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@vibovitold]

it's possible they are only there for publicity

[@chittachatter]

Peter: How've you come up with 2.7 million? Hawaa: So, what we've done is, based on our obscene sense of entitlement...

[@woveshenm2325]

the dental puns by the commentator is epic

[@mrali5196]

I'm trying to get my teeth into these comments

[@mayxz7390]

@@mrali5196 hahahaha

[@drazenbabich]

Most of these would-be entrepreneurs fail on smugness and arrogance. Peter specifically has a smug-detector which usually triggers in the first few minutes.

[@ISpoofBIG]

Exacto!

[@techwiz81]

You can’t bullshit a bullshitter

[@hasan1980hb]

​@@StikManJones bad b*** don't mess

[@noirlily3413]

Yeah, they're not likable!

[@ahmedd320]

Why are you expecting them to grovel?

[@obinnaochiagha1097]

They had some good input from two dragons that can help them move their product forward (Tukur’s input especially and price). Good luck to them.

[@Foldy435]

An app that tells you where plaque is? Have they not heard of a mirror and mk.1 eyeball?

[@sjohnston4272]

''Drill down'' wasn't the strongest pun but I read it 👏

[@peterpiper831]

At least the Dragons didn't ask "Show us your root canals !"

[@miraclemiler71]

These women have an air of smugness that is very off putting.

[@JCRoberts97]

Totally agree

[@joesaii]

was just thinking this, there are little mannerisms that some duos do on this show (looking at each other and smirking after a dragon says something, etc) also 3.5% counter offer and they're pre-revenue? surely they knew it would end up exactly how it did

[@JackOfAllTradesIL]

agree

[@davidloughlin2238]

Absolutely, they have burned through a fortune in no time at all and I can't see this going anywhere with them at the helm.

[@007kash007]

Because obviously the whole point is to get on TV so people can invest on kickstarter for a free product. They're the smart ones, not you.

[@user-qc1yg8wi4f]

Tukar was willing to put them together with a 'mover and shaker' who would be able to a) know whether it had real potential and if so, b) get the product to market. They missed the chance to have 70% of something in exchange for retaining their 97.4% of pretty much sweet fa. Given the way they talk, I would wager at least one of these ladies went to university and has an MBA or equivalent? Strikes me that hinders rather than helps.

[@cranegantry868]

100% correct. MBA's don't help in business.

[@Lunchladydoyle]

Wow, that counter offer. Thanks ladies I needed a hearty laugh today !! 😅

[@wildnfree101]

I read your comment before I had even heard Toukers offer of 30%. I thought they may have come back with 15% or at least 10%, but when I heard what they said, I knew were you was coming from. lol

[@JL-gf3yc]

Valuations get worse and worse, does nobody learn from watching previous pitches? Where do these people come from🙄

[@menyjackets593]

I suspect there’s more money available to them than they’re admitting to. Their attitude to Touker’s offer, when they so desperately can’t afford to survive without it, makes no sense.

[@DaRunTingsCrew]

Exactly what I thought.

[@alih3123]

This doesn’t check the plaque on the inside of the teeth either does it? Seems too expensive for something that would miss half the plaque

[@SpencerLeCroix-qi6lz]

I think I rather have little shares in something big rather than all the shares in something small, they should have taken the deal

[@SWUploads971]

I like how Evan Davies volume has been massively lowered 👍

[@JennA-uf6lo]

Can’t you still get those chewable pills they used to give us in elementary school when we were learning how to brush properly?

[@eddiediesel9035]

The glass divider in the elevator is ridiculous.

[@ha2734]

Toucer looked like he was going to cry at the end lol

[@thefonzkiss]

2.6% has to be the lowest ever offered in the den.

[@ThiagoBenazziMaia]

The smile when they left just show they were just looking for some marketing for free.

[@imanishay]

I dont get out of bed for that 😂😂😂😂😂

[@hiimjustin8826]

Ah, the classic, "we've raised and lost a lot of money therefore our business is valuable" fallacy.

[@Marais-cu3vo]

Everyone is coming to the show pitching a subscription service. The times have changed and people are cutting back on subscriptions.

[@thealien_ali3382]

Should have negotiated to 25% he already gave 30% and that was a good deal

[@Chrissyrozenot]

They probably don’t have enough equity

[@sikkepossu]

Why people think there has to be an app for everything?!

[@skoumastv]

Because its a trend and they are narcissists money spenders

[@leeturriff7153]

"I was making quite a bit of dosh out of that" 0:20

[@azmanntoz]

There’s something very Theranos about this pitch.

[@FUCKCENSORSHIP747]

How so? Theranos had scientists go in after the fact and fake results.

[@rjacobb]

I'm curious for what the £70k was intended? If they're strapped, why not 100k for 5%, ya know. It adds 1/5th the money in the business plus experience and guidance. Then you can work on a deal say 20% with a buy back once investment is repaid. They'll get diluted anyways.

[@maszimz]

The most annoying thing is, TS made an offer on this😂

[@ciscoworld322]

He knew they wouldn't accept it. You could read it from his face.

[@montu94]

It would actually be a great tool for dentists.

[@The_drone_viking]

I use an App to check to see if I need to brush my hair or not, only costs $30/month

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Sounds good.

[@SG-ve7zz]

lol!!!

[@onlyinthailand88]

Bargain

[@vibesbynae4860]

The vibe coming out of those two is offfff, I had to wear a mental shield too finish watching it

[@nxesr]

Were did these two really spend that raised money on?? Holidays, living the life thinking oh WOW we got all this cash where shall we blow it. Peter was absolutely right to expose this.

[@SWUploads971]

Touker: I'll offer you 30%. Entrepreneurs: Would you consider 0.3%? Touker: No.

[@Noelhall88]

😂

[@That_Guy78]

The 30% was a very generous offer. I was thinking more along the lines of 100% would be reasonable.

[@eddymcpre]

Was soooooo shocked they got an offer

[@tinowichura8965]

You can see very early that Tej just thinks it's a waste of time based on the valuation

[@IAmTheJayster]

Sara really destroyed their subscription model

[@anassabir1051]

deborah was very respectful

[@originalunoriginal4055]

Question is, are they qualified dentist professions that are licensed to carry out diagnostic on the public seeking dentistry assistance... Or just a tech development startup offering an app service?

[@zworld5154]

That's not relevant when you're scaling a business, Uber was operating an illegal taxi service when they started and look where they are now.

[@mvvx313]

@@zworld5154bad comparison

[@mizhomesiq]

​@@mvvx313I agree

[@danbriars2141]

@@zworld5154what’s not relevant is your comparison. Uber weren’t trying to teach people how to drive

[@shaunohagan1491]

I just can't see this being used by enough people tbh. simple things like tooth picks and dental flossers are good enough.

[@scienceevolves4417]

Indeed they sold none since this was broadcast

[@pragmafunds]

It may good for dental professionals.

[@kashifraza628]

Hats off to them for giving it a go. If this doesn’t succeed perhaps another project will. Many commenting on here don’t have the initiative nor bottle to go on a show like this.

[@sadikmeah4057]

@@satvinderkaurdehiya5388 I'm one of them but I think they're a pair of arrogant witches

[@Finggy]

​@@satvinderkaurdehiya5388what do you mean

[@Avision99]

if you want something you will not put yourself in an upper hand position if you see the dragons aren't sold on the valuation. they know their weaknesses and hadn't even a good argument why theirs is better...so people if you want to go on a show like this, have solid product, do research about the market your'e in and take communication skills courses :)

[@vibesbynae4860]

👏🏾👏🏾my thoughts too , at least the ones who are serious can learn from cases like theirs

[@UU-vl2kn]

This product is great for people who suffer with gum disease. They need to go to the dentists to get exact percentage of their plaque. With nhs on a downfall and private dentists costing a bomb. This product could have been designed for sufferers of gum disease- BUT needs to be more affordable

[@bentones1701]

Literally what Touker said…

[@travisdk84]

she was so proud of her elevator story and that was her go to business story. Oh wow you sold ice cream to children

[@EcomGypsy]

1. Wrong valuation 2. Overpriced product 3. Wrong Sales Channel

[@user-ql9me2xb4b]

“dosh” 😂😂😂😂 pretty educated..

[@TCW_Consulting]

Selling ice creams at lunch time? Lol.

[@AB-ib6me]

No one: Touker: I don’t get out of bed for that

[@shaz3428]

Lmfao

[@theoriginalrecycler]

Nobody seen the disclosure tablets?

[@mohammedpatel3537]

How does these guys calculate there business at £2.7 million, need the formula

[@elmodiddly]

Interesting that their arrogance and being backed by both their mothers (check Companies House) gives them that push to market something that is just plain odd. Plus a disclosing tablet costs 3 pence each and gives a colour indicator of ALL teeth, not just the front ones.

[@Chamseibnmasood-qn4me]

offered 70k for 30% of there business , by one of the greatest guys in the business and they offer him 3.6% they should have taken it that was a very good deal.

[@Budz11]

I'm sure the market for people who are obsessed about the percentage of plaque on their teeth can't be very high

[@richtexas4431]

Their plan was “let’s just wing it”

[@marzy2009]

I like the product idea but the cost is too much

[@MLife1972]

I don't get it. It sounds like they haven't invented it. They've just spend a shed load of money buying someone else's tech and want to licence it out?

[@BillyBullshitter]

Their dragons den appointment was at 2.30 (Tooth hurty) Wahhhey...

[@Boxingreact]

What did they spend 450k on ridiculous 😂!! And only left with 20k madness

[@BDogs10]

Who really wants to know the level of plaque 1%>5% whatever?. Let’s just assume we ‘all’ have a level of plaque, that needs tending too. Go to the dentist they can check & sort it out. This is ridiculous

[@thecheatingfoodie5028]

The dental puns😮

[@ShawaebTee]

what a trainwreck

[@dazediss6629]

Some of the best bits of this clip; - we’ve spent half a million pounds of other peoples money. - we’ve sold none. - we value it at 2.7m.

[@cranegantry868]

Pre-revenue (no income yet) valuation at 2.7 million. Hahahahahaha, bizarre!!!!!!

[@senseitoxina5098]

Why is there a glass wall inside the lift?

[@Lakishia]

covid

[@johnmightymole2284]

They should have taken Touker's offer.

[@brandmotivo]

They couldn't take the offer because they didn't have 30% to give away.... read between the lines, they've had so much investment that they most likely owned less than 50%.

[@ukseverestormchaser]

@@brandmotivo I think dilution for earlier investors is the only option. Without Touker this company will almost certainly go bust. Deborah was on to something. How many times would you realistically do this? Once a month? Then you would buy the £2 option she was on about that would last you over a year rather than spending £100+

[@dodihoza7859]

They were looking to cocky

[@bungobaggins5837]

*too

[@catman4471]

@@bungobaggins5837 I hope that's what was meant, I mean 'looking to cocky' has a completely different meaning!

[@esfandiarisina6632]

I am dentist and this will not work for sure, it does not value anything unfortunately!

[@rickm6232]

Taj is into health supplements. Man, he has tea bag eyes.

[@draculastraphouse7863]

Tej is the most annoying dragon in my opinion

[@roojistanr5015]

He doesn’t look the most healthy does he

[@fatima_ldn]

LOOL I think that’s just genetics 😂😂

[@vidastrent7622]

Yes 😂😂

[@vibovitold]

Nobody asked - how do they know these figures (that the app comes up with) are even accurate? Has the product been clinically tested? Or is it just entertainment, since they can't make any health-related claims? In the latter case, good luck getting dentists on the board

[@thedunyadoneya2628]

The reason nobody asked is because it appears to have been "verified" already. At 1:30 they outline whats been done, including patenting, algorithms and branding. All areas that would have raised the question much earlier than this stage.

[@hellsregect]

​@@thedunyadoneya2628 None of those proves it works. When you apply for a patent they don't test if the product works

[@slaterk534]

I swear there’s a tablet the dentist gives which you put in your mouth and colour shows up on the plaque so you know where to brush. Surely that’s way cheaper lol and already in the market.

[@samna789]

Yes, they're called disclosing tablets. But it's messy.

[@adamlacey81]

During this pitch, Evan Davis spent the whole time narrating from under the floorboards and burst out for air beneath Deborah's chair after they cut filming.

[@jakecooper5855]

That's awful. It's not even a joke and definitely not funny. Give up

[@adamlacey81]

@@jakecooper5855 aww bless.

[@user-ym6tu2wd8j]

i was expecting that they will buy it, but the evaluation was not connected to the real world

[@wrightcarl1181]

I hate it when people say quid and k, it's unprofessional

[@amanihutchinson9406]

I don't know if its the nervousness but their attitude stinks🤣🤣

[@Yourgirlsophia23]

This happends when u ask chatgpt "how to value my startup"... great idea, but in the end u gotta be able to make money and close deals, even if that means you delute urly investors and lose more equity. the experience a man like Tukan and his network can add, is more worth than 2.7 million.

[@becg9438]

Glad Debra said about a plaque disclosing tablet. Remember doing this is science class lol. Blue teeth for everyone... You can also but denta l scalers really easily. Seems a bit pointless to me 🤷

[@namrofni6236]

0:18 Selling ice cream during school break? Surely it would have melted by break time.

[@Mike-jl2kp]

Debra was just going through the motions with her questions, she was clearly not investing once Peter went out

[@sadafahmed9563]

Opportunists? They fell for it :)

[@jeremy5939]

I am uunninspired by this idea.

[@moogleking]

I don't get out of bed for that

[@thegamersden4824]

At the end of the day a .99 cent toothbrush will remove all plaque on a daily bases.

[@shadaba.qureshi4367]

2.7 million is nothing, if this tech can be approved by NHS or similar govt agency. this uses same procedure like an OPG (Orthopantomagram) xray dental machine for mouth. This is a real good self-care dental app... They have got a good exposure on DDen i'm sure they'll see success pretty fast.

[@IAmTheJayster]

It is a terrible idea and they have sold none since this

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

It's a good idea, just the way it's made.

[@brandmotivo]

You just won the 'most stupidest comment award'.

[@jasperpike242]

its RUBBISH folks

[@distoricass]

Any update ?

[@MistyOne]

Those coloured tablets do the same thing

[@m_saqibali]

£70k for a 2.6% share 😅

[@Evoque.1]

This should be called Grumpy Dragons

[@roblancs]

"I want 70 K". Try seventy thousand pounds, dear.

[@camptube7621]

Or you could buy plaque staining tablets.

[@sweatysock1174]

Junk. Deborah annihilated the idea. If someone wanted to check the plaque on their teeth they could buy those tablets for 2 pounds.

[@Squish-TheUrbanScribe]

Is it just me or were their personalities a little off-putting?...Especially when Deborah was making valid points. Their final offer was plain disrespectful!

[@mohammedjafer9265]

I see it too wonder if they are that nervous