Zwift Trainer Difficulty: Faster Climbing on Zwift? // 350W Lama Lab Test

The Zwift Trainer Difficulty put to the test up Watopia Wall - Same watts, same conditions, one lap with the setting at 100%, the next at 0%. Does it have any impact on my in-game speed? Remember to click SUBSCRIBE to support this KZbin channel: bit.ly/3aUph9W
Watopia Wall Lap #1 - 354W 2:18
Watopia Wall Lap #2 - 352W 2:20
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#zwift #cycling #fitness

[@patjschmidt]

The best way I can express the setting is: If the same power is put out at 0% and 100% you will cover the same segment in the same time BUT the gears you use will be different. The slider is a virtual cassette IMO...

[@Ocky3533]

This is what I've been searching for. Just hooked up everything yesterday and I am riding around in 52/11 like it's nothing...and I certainly can't do that in RL. Was trying to figure out if I needed to adjust the Kickr or the setting in Zwift, so I'll try this tomorrow.

[@Thomas-fy9yc]

Did you calibrate the trainer? I actually feel it’s slightly harder than real life cycling

[@scottromine4955]

I agree. I find it harder to maintain wattage on climbs than on flats in Zwift. Opposite in real life.

[@danzirulez]

Haha, I put an 11-32 cassette, to climb alpe du zwift. Default 50% setting. I could have just popped the slider back to about 25% :-D Read about the slider, but up until this video I never understood it. Best explanation. TY Lama! :)

[@7371301]

It’s a gear selector! Plain and simple. If you can’t ride up a hill in Zwift because your front ring(s) are HUGE then lower the Difficulty in Zwift. If your front ring(s) are small then increase difficulty. Zwift gives you things so you don’t have to regear your bike. RIDE ON!

[@jamessingleton4856]

Pretty impressive to be talking 'seemingly easily' with a heart rate of 180! Motivational stuff

[@ptocknell]

Watching you hold 350 and not having any difficulty breathing reminds me of watching Beachbody instructor Shaun T talk through the insanity workouts. Excellent video and outstanding job on both of those climbs.

[@cliveking7976]

Having done similar tests with 100%, 0% and 50% up the Epic KOM, the real benefit that I also see for lower % is the fact you don't run out of gears on the block. Keeps the chain straighter! Reduces the little & big combo for long periods and allows better control of cadence. Leaving at 50% feels right, but for races 20% to reduce the gear changes 👍

[@richardmathew1969]

Clive King spot on!

[@kidsafe]

There’s a benefit to increased flywheel speed/momentum. It means the whole system is less sensitive to whatever disjoint pedaling style you have. It’s why trainers with tiny flywheels and strong resistance units almost always feel like pedaling through sand. You’re forced to work different muscles (calves/hamstrings) and while the total amount of work is the same, those smaller muscles tend to fatigue / give out faster.

[@joopvanroy6599]

so you're saying a bigger gear on a Neo or a Kickr would be better than a smaller gear? So less ''trainer difficulty"? You think this translates to ERG mode , too?

[@cliveking7976]

Joop van Roy it doesn't translate to erg mode. That's completely set by restitance of workout or none if freeride. As someone else has commented here, harder the resistance the further up the block you go which generally slows the cadence as well. It's all about the feel :)

[@kidsafe]

Joop, reducing trainer difficulty allows you to use bigger gear ratios to output the same power/cadence. This has a few effects. As Clive mentioned, you can potentially have your chain in the middle of the cassette more often...it's more efficient, reduces wear on your drivetrain and it's quieter too. Also as I mentioned in a reply, it means the flywheel is spinning faster (has more momentum.) This allows your pedaling to be more free while spinning with high resistance at low flywheel speed forces you to pedal in a rounder style that exhausts smaller muscles like your calves and hamstrings.

[@richardmathew1969]

Just tried the same test and I much prefer 0%. Its much easier to keep steady power and cadence. I used to think this was kind of unsporting until I heard one of the In The Pens podcast guys saying they always race with 0%. Sweet.

[@stevem2939]

Hi Richard ..... Totally agree. 0% flattens the hills but you still have to get watts up BUT at 0% your avatar will fly downhills with no pedal input......therefore 0% is not a flat road so also it does not turn your smart trainer into a dumb trainer. Look at the end of this vid where Shane does a U turn down the hill.........

[@DomenicPaolilli]

Great video. That was me with the KOM 😂

[@gplama]

The 1:30something? That’s Flying! 500-600w

[@DomenicPaolilli]

Yeah 1:39. Averaged about 560 watts up it. Love ur videos 👍

[@herobo123456]

Domenic Paolilli Averaged 560 watts lol how did u feel after that??

[@fiddleronthebike]

@@DomenicPaolilli 560 W for 1:39 - impressive!

[@philadams9254]

What's that in w/kg? Epic time.

[@alexhumphreys2609]

Great demonstration and it helps me understand. Big difference which should be worth mentioning is the influence on the cadence max and min has.

[@dugasman]

Cadence changes ! you feel your legs in a different way, because your cadence increases when you slide the difficulty towards 0%. Also the range of available gears you can use on your bike decreases. So it's easier to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. If you move the slider to 100% your cadence decreases because there is more resistance from the trainer. Also the range of available gears on your bike increases in this instance. So it's harder to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. You still need to output same wattage to achieve same speed and time goals, but what varies is the cadence at which you ride.

[@ashfield001]

Shane you’re a bloody legend. Simo.

[@zoltardo]

Haha 218 it takes me like 10 minutes to get up that damn hill :-)

[@evertidema3338]

Loved the video ( and the setup). I normally run just a bit under 100%. Around 80% derefed thru a pragamatic approach of gears,cadance and enjoying a climb.

[@alanthompson9240]

Have to say, as a slightly heavier guy (84.8 kg), I like 50%. For races I’ll put it slightly lower so I’m not as shocked by grade changes, basically 40%-ish.

[@zedgee4514]

i just started zwift trial on a volt so ill be checking out your vids thanks good content.

[@bendobson5348]

This is where zwift could do with a lap button.

[@atanasg]

+1. I was about to suggest "borrowing" the lap button from a head unit (by connecting it to the power meter in parallel) but looking the stats GPLama came within 2W b/w the two efforts so not a biggie in this case. Super impressive consistency, GPLama!

[@kenny5692]

I use a 23 tooth straight block on my drivo and lower the trainer difficulty to about 70 percent. This is to make it similar to a 32 cassette on steep climbs. The drivo is slow to change resistance so having a tighter ratio helps it along making gradient changes and make it less drastic on the drivo. Also this increases flywheel speed in climbing ranges. The drivo is more content to hold me back and not slip on steep sections at low cadence.

[@nezbian]

Shane's cadence up the hill was 79 rpm @ 100% and 86 rpm @ 0%. For me the trainer difficulty makes it easier on the knees at lower settings.

[@gplama]

Just to clarify - You're discussing 'the feels', not the in-game effect.

[@nezbian]

understood. my knees feel better :)

[@okreidieh]

@@nezbian Technically, 100% shifting to a lower gear could get your the same feeling as 0% at a higher gear ... The real change is the gear you need to put out a specific power at a specific cadence. So long as you get a gear with a high enough cadence, your knees won't feel bad regardless of whether you achieve this with a low gear high trainer difficulty or high gear low trainer difficulty. In a sense, the higher trainer difficulty just translates to more shifting.

[@craigthomasutube]

@@okreidieh Right! And more shifting on the Alpe, for example, can be more challenging as loss of power is inevitable going from 10% or higher to almost flat then back to 10at the switchbacks. I find my fatigue occurs at the switchbacks at 100%. Ven-top however, if I remember correctly doesn’t have the grade changes so I end up getting into a groove and stay with it till the end.

[@bryanpearson8954]

As always great video Shane and the best explanation of trainer difficulty I have seen. Much easier to understand.

[@joopvanroy6599]

Lowering the setting essentially changes your gears on the bike. I live in flat country so my bike gearing isn't set up for 10%+ climbs. Lowering the setting to < 50% alleviates that issue without having to install a new drivetrain just for a virtual ride.

[@ORBEX]

Joop van Roy at least somebody gets it!!!

[@nicolacheccacci3769]

i've not problems...i got a long cage shimano 11-32 on my bike

[@groovymoon9386]

Yes.. but also makes for slower descents I have tried it..

[@groovymoon9386]

"Trainer Dificulty" is a misnomer.. "Grade Simulation" would be a better name for it... If you hit a 10% grade with it set at 50% Zwift will tell your trainer to simulate a 5% grade. etc...etc...

[@monetaryjack1705]

I leave it at 100% with a 50/34 and 11-32 (2x9 Sora set up).... If I tackle the Stelvio or Ventoux on Wahoo RGT I'll consider lowering TD to 75% which is to take into consideration that if I ever did these mountains in reality I'd probably swap out for an 11/36 or even 11/40 cassette.... I don't mind working the gears on a hilly course- keeps you focussed on the view ahead and the profile, and probably ensures a more fair and even wear on the cassette rather than sticking to just a few gears (or worse in ERG, one gear....)

[@bogingerbrewing2426]

how do you change them

[@PeterMacca88]

I have found that on rides like the AHDR humpday ride I fare better in the after party on 80% trainer difficulty rather than the default of 50% because I can push harder into the resistance on the little rises. Even though the average power required is the same for both settings I think i produce power better when I need to generate torque into little power climbs rather than increase the cadence. I'm sure other people would have opposite experience.

[@isabelgarcia9429]

I feel the same. new to zwift but on flatter routes I always have the trainer to 100%, just feels right. I dont know if I could climb the longer, steeper climbs like this, but 5% to 8% is ok. I'll give it a whirl on a biggie, might change my mind.

[@isabelgarcia9429]

Don't know why it's posted in my wife's name. I,m Bob

[@lifeafterlon]

I did wonder too. 🤔 Thanks for the great vid Shane.

[@atanasg]

"It should be a little bit easier to hold 350W through here." Yeah, lol, speak for yourself!!!

[@RossTheNinja]

atanasg I reckon I'd last about a minute at that power

[@atanasg]

Nice! According to my power curve my best is 45sec 😳

[@ditannyc]

Hi Shane. I am 55 years of age (5' 8" and 150lbs) and at this late stage of my life I am enjoying road cycling. I have almost 52 years of martial arts in me, a ton of wear and tear and surgeries on my knees. Regardless I dream of hitting a steady 300w and currently on 13 rides on Zwift I average only 130W. Yesterday I rode my first race 12.5 miles with 700+ climb. At start of race 37 guys shot like rockets in 6 seconds vanished from my sight. I took off with another guy who took off with me and at the end he was 5 minutes ahead of me. I finished in 39th place with 52 people behind me. My difficulty level was set to 75% from the standard 50%. In the Zwift videos I heard the higher you place the bar the more realistic the climbs will me. I cannot believe I have no legs left after so much martial art dedication and I still hope to do positively good as I always set sights on realism at my age but also prove to myself I am not average. Thank you for reading

[@PeakTorque]

Hi Shane, so does the flywheel speed stay the same between the two tests? If not, is it similar to the Erg mode vid you made where different flywheel speeds were found requiring different muscle groups to get on top of the gear? By the way, my tcr seatpost broke on the trainer...

[@gplama]

That depends on the gearing used. Still unrelated to in-game speed, feel or response to gearing/load/inertia is subjective. Nice work on snapping the TCR! I'm still trying to break mine to justify getting a new bike. :)

[@lehtjug]

I have ride 100% trainer level all the time. I want to keep realism level perfect as possible. It's part of a cycling to feel pain in a legs. Gives a pleasure ;).

[@kidsafe]

Juha Lehtinen While I do enjoy some immersion, 100% grade simulation of a virtual road is not one of my requirements. I want some feel in races and fast group rides so I can react on ramps, escalators, etc. but that’s about it. I can get my 100% realism outside.

[@lehtjug]

yoog it's true that there is a good reasons to change difficulty settings including those you mentioned. One good reason is tyre slippage issues with some wheel on trainers. Lower the settings will help prevent that problem.

[@dancudds]

I go 100% for races. Climbs are where the attacks generally happen and you want the trainer to give you that feedback rather than having to shift gears to put out more power. If you ride at 0% diff and don't shift on the grades the pack will fly right past you.

[@ccdbcvtrider1]

lowering the difficulty pretty much makes you increase your RPM's. you have to produce the same wattage, so lowering the difficulty means upping the RPM's. your example here proved that too...you were doing 73RPMs on the first go, then 86 on the second go at the same location of the climb and producing the same wattage and virtual speed.

[@tsgarage2382]

yup he was lower 70s more at 100% and higher 80,s with 0%

[@Beejayxx882]

But very different gear guys..

[@Koobca.]

My understanding is that trainer difficulty can adjust how you produce those watts ( torque x cadence). 100% you need more torque and less cadence (check video, watts and speed are the same but the mean rpm are like 70-80 on 100% and 80-90 on 0%), at 0% you need more cadence. Time, speed and wattage will be the same. This can affect your gearing but that is how I understand it. Even his heart rate was aprox. the same. I started using Zwift (and a trainer) like 2 weeks/1month, I ride at the default 50%, being a heavy rider I use more power on the legs rather than rpm. I notice that my gears always run out, I tend to use the heavier gears (big ring in the front, smallers at the back). I will try to adjust the trainer difficulty so I can take more advantage of my gears Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m new to this and only searched this now. If my trainer only makes 6% incline, am I riding on a discount everytime Zwift goes above 6%?

[@gplama]

What this shows is that watts are watts when it comes to in-game speed. When it comes to how you as a rider produce those watts, that's very subjective. Some riders are more efficient at lower RPM, some at higher RPM. If you're on a trainer that can only reach 6% simulation, that's all the physical resistance you'll feel. In game your avatar is subjected to the gradients as shown on screen and will be slower at 12% than 6% at the same power.

[@jayshockey5461]

Great stuff as always! Love yer videos!

[@GetzenBassPlayer]

I agree. I think of the slider as a virtual cassette change.

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Training this winter, thinking about doing all my rides at 100%. Want to make sure I'm ready for the on off on off efforts

[@szabiakanich]

Still not 100% sure I understand. Let me know if I got this right. At 100% you would need to use a gear just like you would in real life climbing at 7% to produce 350 watts. At 0% you could use whatever gear, even 50x11 and spin it up to produce the 350 watts.

[@Voss27]

That's right.

[@iancruz2066]

At 0%, you actually made the smart trainer a dumb trainer

[@adammillsindustries.]

Ian Cruz Yes. The guys on dumb trainers fly away from you down the hills. It’s a necessary evil to make Zwift appealing to the masses.

[@Dennis4523]

Adam Mills hey fuck you , my dumb trainer and wahoo sensors only cost me 100$ and they sure as hell work well

[@benkretz]

@@Dennis4523 That escalated quickly... I think the main point that we all must remember is that the game interprets wattage. Wattage, no matter how expensive the trainer setup is, is consistent and that is what makes it a great tool for all levels of cyclists to train at. I think Adam's complaint is that the program makes it impossible for him to produce 350 watts on a 10% downhill grade, but this is exactly the same problem as real life it is just that everyone is on the same road. (I have a dumb setup too) They get an incredibly realistic feel for the ride and their drafting experience is way better than ours. Hell, I would give up the 30 second descent in every ride for the other hour to be more realistic and have the same feel as a group ride if I would shell out the money.

[@RixterNow]

I think the rain slowed you down on the second lap. If it were dry you’d have been 10 seconds faster. LOL

[@dakalla]

So with that slider to zero it would be like cycling on a non interactive smart trainer, like for example the Elite Turbo Muin. Is that right?

[@gplama]

Exactly

[@bencopsey]

Would be good to explain the reverse impact on descents and how racers use lower settings so the don’t get so much free wheel effect and can generate more watts downhill

[@alextasch8114]

Actually I am pretty sure you generate more watts downhill with 100% difficulty, and able to travel faster.

[@garylugg9860]

@@alextasch8114 it does , downhill you wont spin out so you can hold great raw watts which in zwift means great spped. raw wattage = greater speed

[@randyleach5707]

So, the bigger question. If you had to climb 5% for 3 or 4 hours, which setting are you going with? Would seem to me that the preferred option would be lower difficulty results in higher cadence, less latic acid, longer ability to pedal.

[@GraydonPatterson]

I equate the Zwift trainer difficulty settings as 'gears'. At 100%, I'm riding bike with a 53/39 chainring and 11-25 cogs, versus a 52/36 chainrings & 11-32 cogs at 50%. Its really only noticeable on climbs (and descents)

[@waynepatton718]

Hi Shane another great video.

[@barefeg]

It doesn't make a difference with a huge asterisk that supposes you'll be able to turn the cranks at a reasonable cadence. This is crucial in races where you want to keep your glycogen reserves as high as possible for the final

[@reynaldogarcia3799]

You didn't say which you liked more. Any preference?

[@gplama]

Riding outside is always better :)

[@Psyk078]

I think he said around 75% in another video?

[@MrBongo1111]

The gear changes so the cadence changes . One side benefits a high cadence the other a low cadence . It effectively gives you a broader range of gears .

[@gplama]

Yep. It gives the ability to use more gears ... but the game doesn’t care. It’s all watts (and a few other things) that contribute to your in-game speed.

[@ChrisWorfolk]

Great video! What about descending? Sounds like a trainer difficulty of 0% could prevent you from spinning out, and therefore reach a wattage you couldn't normally reach in real life / at 100% difficulty.

[@gplama]

Yep.

[@GaragemdoCaio]

I always go with the following. If you have 11+ gears I set to 100%. Anything less I proportionally (roughly) decrease it. No gears I would set to zero or close to it.

[@authorjohnwquinn]

Question - Having that slider set at 0% affected the Kickr Climb, right? It didn't go up and down as much?

[@gplama]

Correct. See my video here on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXK9kJ1mfal3m7M

[@jarrodwright6082]

I’m still pretty new to Zwift. Just wondering about KOM’s with trainer difficulty settings?? I’ve just got a new Kickr 18 (love it! Your videos made the purchase way easier) and have noticed my climb times are a bit slower. (old trainer couldn’t control resistance) Does Zwift show you information on what riders were using when achieving KOM’s? What trainer and what difficulty setting etc?? Great channel GPlama

[@gplama]

Zwift just cares about w/kg (power/weight). So if you've switched to something with 'more correct' power reporting, then the times may be slower or faster. Zwift know what devices people are using (it's in the data channels) but only report 'power', so we don't see it as riders. I find ~80% to be a good balance of hill simulation. *Again, that 80% does not affect the in-game speed, only my feels in the legs.

[@micbanand]

as I see it. if you have a 12/25 casette you set it low. if you have a 11/32 you set it high. so it simulate a low medium or high gear :)

[@dewidavies7995]

Thanks 😊

[@ashterfadgadget817]

I personally find leaving it at 100% makes it feel more like real cycling.

[@benjapolcycling]

And for me the surge in watt at the beginning of the climb (as in real life) helps a little bit too. but opposite is true when the hills flat out the power drops naturally unless you push harder psychologically.

[@DennisNowland]

That is exactly what it is. It's just a way of making the cassette more flexible.

[@einandrew]

Does a lower setting normalize to make flats a bit more "challenging" gearing-wise? Running into an issue where I can only generate good power on flats in my highest gears. The theory would say I can then drop the trainer difficulty setting and get more power in lower gears on flats and declines. Does that work out that way?

[@chrispritch]

Wait.... Is the video using the elgato green screen?

[@gplama]

Yes

[@Ocky3533]

Hey Shane, enjoy the channel. Just got a Kickr 18 and CLIMB and my first ride on Zwift was fun, yet I found myself in a range of gears that I normally wouldn't expect. I was spending A LOT of time in 52/13-17 whereas I normally wouldn't be able to handle it. In theory, if I increase the difficulty slider in Zwift this would effectively put me back into a more RL range of gears, correct? I didn't touch my small chainring on my first ride in London. I also performed a spindown after 10 minutes of riding as recommended. Thanks!

[@gplama]

The slider at 100% (all the way to the right) should give you the 'most realistic' experience with gradient simulation, and gearing you'll have to dive through.

[@Mutombo71]

O.N. the second run the cadence is about 10% higher. Which means you are training your vasculary system more. On the first run you are training misculary system. At your fitness level you probably don't notice this. You can achieve higher watts by either fast spinning or harder pedalling. Maybe retry in erg mode with watts set to 350 and steady cadence on both runs. I estimate that the 0 run will be slower.

[@gplama]

How will it be slower? In game speed is w/kg. Cadence doesn’t factor into game speed. Only human feel/ability (a different topic)

[@LeeCassidy]

I've seen a video that states that adjusting the difficulty slider down from 100% is just like adding more teeth to your cassette (so it's just like virtually swapping out your cassette). Seems to be the easiest way to think about it.

[@gplama]

That's an easy way to think about it, yes. Technically what's happening is a little different.

[@Mat0]

So theoretically, on the next TDZ stage is Watopias Road to Sky route which is a 3400ft climb- people can cheat the climb by turning down their trainer? I feel like you shouldn’t be allowed to do that when In an event

[@edwiser]

So when riding a Kickr bike the tilt function doesn’t work properly when you adjust the trainer difficulty to less than max. The hill gradient goes down.

[@gplama]

That’s correct. By design.

[@edwiser]

@@gplama Right because the gradient has changed. 😀

[@bobbysilver272]

??? You didn't state whether it felt harder with the slider on max!!! In other words, was it harder to maintain 350 watts when the slider was on max?

[@gplama]

Irrelevant to my in-game speed. ~350W = ~2:18 up the hill. Both runs. Showing that the slider has no impact on in-game speed. 350W is 350W energy wise. How I, you, or the next rider generates those watt and their associated feeling in doing do isn't all that relevant for what I was demonstrating.

[@bobbysilver272]

Thanks for the reply. However, I still don't get it. If you can feel going up hills more, then doesn't that mean you have to work harder to maintain the same speed or watts. Otherwise, what is the point of this setting?

[@gplama]

Take the human out of the equation. To move from A to B in 2mins18seconds requires ~350W (at my weight) - regardless of the slider settings. That's what I was showing here. There's a misconception the setting (which changes the gradient simulation feel) made people ride faster or slower in-game. There's two realities to take into account here. Real (me) and in-game (Zwift).

[@bobbysilver272]

I don't have a smart trainer, hence why I am missing data. I still don't get why the setting exists. If the setting is meant to make you feel the hills, then why do you not have to work harder to achieve the same pace? Otherwise it must mean the game counteracts your "slower" speed going up hills, by making the ride in effect on zwift a little faster , even though in reality it is the same speed as with lower slider setting?

[@gplama]

I'm going to have to call it a day here sorry. Apologies I can't get the explanation right.

[@peebee1357]

Would like to see a down hill vid , when racing the higher % is great uphill but down hill is brutal , spin fest and loose ground

[@ZKelly22]

Can you only aero tuck on specific trainers or is it possible regardless of trainer? As long as it's the right percent grade and speed

[@bradleyjsmithod]

Sorry if this was addressed earlier, but have you tried using Instant instead of 3 sec average for power display? I find the feedback is better for maintaining a given power during intervals which might seem counterintuitive, but the smoothing creates a lag that I end up chasing more. The refresh rate on the display seems the same, just more accurate.

[@gplama]

This does not have any impact on the in-game speed or pacing. 3s average is simply a visual change to what's shown on screen. Workout mode in Zwift will only show 1s average at this point. It ignores the setting.

[@TheDomLouis]

Nice test. Would doing it in ERG mode , via a custom workout give a more accurate timing? Not necessarily for difficulty slider, but say for working out how many watts to push to do a climb in X minutes?

[@GameMaker04]

Shane, just getting into trainers and indoor biking. Budget at the moment forced me to start with Bkool go and an average 10 speed bicycle. On this setup although I peddle very fast and get good rpm my watts are relatively low and my bike travels and an unrealistic slower than expected speed. Other bikers pass me all day long. Any idea what I need to do to correct this ? is it just poor equipment or is there a setting somewhere I can tinker with ?

[@gplama]

I'm not familiar with the wheel-on BKool trainers, so I'm not sure there. Sounds like it needs a calibration or spindown of some sort.

[@gplama]

btw - I read this comment drinking a x2 shot coffee! I love your username mate! :)

[@John...44...]

Still don't understand this 😂 so with lower difficulty you have to spin more to get the same watts on the climb?

[@johnbowers5447]

The basic idea is this: trainer difficulty changes both the perceived gradient/steepness of the climb AND the perceived length of the climb (but I’ve rarely seen someone point this out) so that you end up expending the same amount of energy (which is measured in calories, not Watts-Watts is a measure of how fast you are expending energy). So if, for example, you would climb the hill at 10% in one minute expending 10 calories of energy, and you set the trainer difficulty at the easiest setting, then Zwift will essentially make you travel whatever length of flat course would require you to expend 10 calories of energy in one minute. So your legs will feel a much easier gradient, but a much longer route so that it requires the same total energy output. This also means that in order to finish in the same time you have to be burning energy at the same rate per unit time, which means the same Watt level.

[@johnbowers5447]

And the TL;DR is yes, you have to spin more, because you have to burn the same amount of energy.

[@SubitusNex]

So, you could almost simulate the resistance change while in "off" by going up a gear when the incline goes up, because then you need more power to maintain the cadence (getting that leg feel)

[@cydonian74]

Woah! That game resolution...1440... It's that supported now?

[@max5635]

Andrew Tomkins 3840x2160 4k max resolution

[@krisbowditch827]

I think in race mode you need it, at 100% to max out most watts on attacks on climbs to stay with the lead group or break 💪💪 without dropping through the cassette 🧐

[@gplama]

Hmm. Agreed to a point. Different trainers have different maximums which complicates this.

[@pajakgdynia]

It is quite old video, but the subject is still hot. Could you provide average power and normalized power from both tries? I don't understand understand why did you need to change the cadence with difficulty=0, when you hit 350. Is there any difference in behaviour with Neo? (where the trainer bahaves as in ERG mode)

[@dewidavies7995]

Ok simple question do you go faster and more wotts with erg mode off. Please 🙏 help newbie to zwift.

[@Pulinski]

So the question for me as a heavier rider with a FTP lower than 200 is; a) Do I ride at min on the slider and spin to work cardio only? or b) Have the slider on max and increase my tolerance for grinding gears at low cadences? My knees often suffer at low cadences when climbing outside. I am already running a 50/34 with 11-32. Will training the knees work or just result in injury?

[@gplama]

That's a tricky one. Best left for a qualified physio / coach who can evaluate you / your riding / goals etc.

[@IGotsBadFeeling]

I think the lower your FTP is the lower the slider should be. I'm not sure if you can build a tolerance for grinding. What you do get is knee issues. And that is something you don't want for sure. Just spin to win I'd say. And once your ftp gets better you can increase the slider so you can hold higher watts at a reasonable cadence.

[@stevem2939]

Hi Shane Out of curiosity I reduced my trainer diff from 100% to 0% and did a test ride on Watopia Hilly Route. Sure enough after hitting the first climb (which comes along quite quickly) I felt no resistance change and upped my gears and cadence to maintain watts, which I found alot easier on the legs !!!! At the top I did a U turn and came back down,...expecting to keep pedaling as the downhill should still be 0%. Instead my avatar SPED UP to over 50 kph with hardly any input from me !!! My avatar even adopted a tuck position !!! This must count as a massive advantage for anyone in a race @ 0% trainer diff......... or even users with dumb trainers and power meters. Have you experienced the same ?? Am I missing something ?? I have a Tacx Neo.........Cheers Steve

[@chbego]

Your HR was +6 or 7 on second run - was that just cardiac drift just because you where spinning more?

[@gplama]

Likely.... but that's my response to the effort. Nothing to do with in-game speed.

[@gustavorincon1640]

This is one big problems of virtual cycling, this data should be visible in game, people are smashing times by holding steady efforts and that can't be compared to times with simulated gradients

[@oldtwinsna8347]

makes huge difference in rolling circuits where 0% riders solo forward right after the summit point.

[@NoName-nu4vr]

Exact same stuff... Feels only. Just go for the highest difficulty to make it more like real cycling.... or maybe 75% when starting to get nice used to ride at a nice cadence of 90-100. Then, go for 100%.

[@gnidaerd]

So, the 'feel' as you say is that you notice the change in grade as it appears to change on the screen? Instead of NO change in 'feel' as the grade changes? I ask as I did my first Zwift session today and wondered why I couldnt feel the transition into the climbs nor the easing as I rolled over the tops of hills. Was set to 50% as standard. Also seemed like I had too much road speed for a given gearing )e.g. I had 51kmh indicated when I was in 39 / 23 and 260W. Anyhoots, I will work it out. Next is to dump the iPad (as it wobbles with the bike) and get an Apple TV or Chrome cast??

[@MickM]

Thanks for clarifying that the setting makes no difference in game but how did the effort feel to the meat motor? How were the two runs different to you?

[@gplama]

Both just as taxing.

[@MateusMartinss]

I notice that your cadence was high in the second lap, is it because on the easy difficulty the trainer offers less resistance and you can spin more? or it was just an easy gear? Usually I go just a bit easy then the 50% mark, I prefer it because it looks like it's a bit easy to stay on top of the gears

[@gplama]

Yes. But cadence has no influence on in-game speed.

[@Fanta0504]

Como faz para virar o avatar assim e subir novamente ?

[@Guffe33]

Hi Shane what gearing are you using in the video? And what gearing are you using ridning on Zwift Mountions do you use the slider for trainer difficulty? Love watching your vidieos on the Channel.

[@gplama]

I can't recall to be honest. Likely a 53/39 on the front.... 11-25 on the rear. The slider is usually at 100% for me on Zwift for my riding.

[@Guffe33]

@@gplama Thanks for the answer.

[@tunafishjoe]

I've seen some Zwift videos where the gradient changes in decimals... So instead of jumping from 1% to 2%, it will go from 1.1% to 1.2% and upward. What trainers off this level of precision? Is this an older feature? Thank you!

[@gplama]

Likely an interface change from Zwift. I'm not sure how granular the gradient specification is within the FE-C and FMTS profiles. I'll look into this.

[@tunafishjoe]

Shane Miller - GPLama Great! Thank you!

[@snafujag100]

it seems to me that lowering the slider simulates changing the cassette from say 11/28 to 11/34 ?

[@gplama]

Kind of.... at a very basic level this is similar to what it does.

[@chrispyy606060606]

Wouldn’t the setting at 100% mean more shifting and thereby power loss through the action of the shifts themselves? (Versus completing the climb in a single gear)

[@gplama]

Different power means a different time up the climb... if you're really sluggish though gear changes.

[@chrispyy606060606]

Shane Miller - GPLama That’s what I mean...a combo of shift time causing slight power variations, non-ideal chain line etc. I think it also depends on the climb profile too...the slider set to 100% “should” feel more realistic (outside like) and hopefully mean an easier transition to riding on the road versus the trainer. I have mine on the default 50% but running a 1x 54T on the TT bike on the trainer.

[@DrBunnee]

Is it okay to have a really high cadence when pushing high watts? I usually get to above 100 cadence and don't get too tired when pushing over 220 watts, I find that i can old the watts for longer with higher cadences

[@gplama]

Sure, if that works for you.

[@michaelwilkens6865]

Question: Is the "Trainer Difficulty" setting the same as the "Incline" setting in the Zwift Companion App?? Are they linked? Meaning if you change one, does it change the other? Or are they two different settings that do something different? If so, how are they different? Thanks for any responses!

[@gplama]

No. Incline I believe is ‘level mode’ within a workout which turns your trainer into a resistance unit with 10(?) levels of resistance. Trainers usually have SIM, ERG, and Level modes.

[@yamyvissel7194]

Hi Shane, could it be that at some point it has changed ? I can't see the difficulty slider in my settings ( if you commented on this already then please excuse me for missing that ) .

[@gplama]

Contact Zwift if the slider isn't there. It's either a bug (or your 'Controllable' isn't paired).

[@prestachuck2867]

Holding 350 for the duration of that climb...who is your doping doctor?! Just kidding. Great video. Explains a lot.

[@gplama]

350 is a rest day.... ;) kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKGYm6Sbh7l5iNU

[@robbieryan4356]

Hi Shane, thank you for all your video's firstly. Secondly, i want to start 'vEveresting' but in my eyes if i don't have it on 100% then i'm cheating? However i only have a 11/25 cassette with my short derailleur- so forgetting times to ascend surely vEveresting is lot easier on lower trainer difficulty than 100%? Apologies to you/ all if already answered but it's just not sticking in my dumb head for some reason. Thanks in advance :)

[@gplama]

You’ll have to follow the vEveresting rules as published on their site

[@binksblog]

So I think for the most realistic feel to the outdoors, one should ride with the slide scale set at 100%?

[@gplama]

Yes.... in summary. What trainer you're using also can be a factor in what feels like riding outdoors and what doesn't.

[@binksblog]

@@gplama Thanks for the quick reply mate! Have a Wahoo Kickr that seems to really work well with Zwift. Used TR a for a few years and although good, Z seems to "talk" to my Kickr' better and the rides seem to be a more realistic feel.

[@VicCampbell1]

Good video. Seemed like your cadence was around 85rpm in the 2nd attempt vs. c. 75rpm in the 1st?

[@gplama]

Cadence has no influence on the speed in-game. 5 rpm at 350w would result in the same climb time.

[@tcslonaker177]

@@gplama EXACTLY. Same speed but different RPMs. It’s all about cadence, which as you put it, “the feels”. So many people on Zwift are doing just 50-60 RPMs at any speed for just a leg workout, and missing the aerobic benefits of higher RPMs between 90-100 which is more optimal and efficient. So, change the difficulty setting to what-ever allows you to maintain an efficient cadence based on the gears you have.

[@pivotalspark]

Insightful video, as always. Next question... Does the slider affect how much incline and decline you get on the Climb? For example, if you have the slider set to 50% and you're on a 10% ascent, does the Climb think you're on a 5% ascent and only rise half the amount it should?

[@jamiewoodward1211]

At 50% on a 20% hill the climb move to simulate a 10% hill by default, but there is a way to change the settings so it always simulates the hill %

[@Voss27]

Yes it does. You can see Shane is going up and down on the Climb during the 100% run, while at 0% he is at a constant flat horizontal level on the Climb.

[@glenngundermann2433]

Does it affect going downhill as well? My 8-speed chain doesn't work great with the 10 or 11-speed cassettes in my studio and I can't use the bottom half of the cassette, I.e. 11-16.

[@gplama]

Downhill explained here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGibdYKIerGcirs

[@josipstampar4302]

Hi. I have Elite XR-T smart trainer that I use with my mtb. I am new in using zwift and last week I tried to race for my first time. I noticed that I am to slow on flats and descents, even if I have very high cadence. beside that, the trainer resistance is to low. I suppose that is because of my 1x12 drivetrain which has 34 teeth front chainring and 11 teeth smallest cassette cog on rear. Am I right? Can I change that if I increase trainer difficulty level? I mean, will my speed increase on same cadence if I increase trainer difficulty level ? Thank you!

[@alejandrodelaossa4905]

My issue with the difficulty setting is that I am able to spin, let's say, 250W in the flat but not while climbing, where 200W is already a triumph. I ride on a Wahoo Kickr Snap and setting the difficulty low allows me to put a lot more watts on the bike, and therefore climb faster.

[@ORBEX]

Alejandro de la Ossa that tells you that you need a bigger cassette for that climb.

[@WellalrightthenP]

New to Zwift* - When I push 350W on a 8% grade, my avatar is barely going 4MPH. Any idea how to fix this? I tried calibrating but still have the same problem. Takes forever to go up any incline.

[@gplama]

Is your in-game weight setting correct?

[@WellalrightthenP]

@@gplama Yeah. I bought the trainer (Wahoo Kickr Snap) used and calibrated it a couple of times. Maybe I just need to pedal harder haha.

[@Enigma71559]

I'm still fairly new to Zwift. I've been using the MAX setting but a 10% climb for example seems way harder in Zwift than it does in the real world. I may try fiddling with the setting to more closely resemble real world efforts.

[@gplama]

What trainer are you using?

[@Enigma71559]

@@gplama The new Elite Suito

[@dewidavies7995]

Erg mode on or off.

[@JBSpine007]

It seemed that you had a higher average wattage at 100% than at 0% and your cadence was higher in the second run. Did you go back and look at what you average watts were for each climb?

[@morgangallimore1230]

Hi there, do you think it’s faster using a higher trainer difficulty in a race scenario ?

[@gplama]

It depends on the individual and their ability to produce power.

[@blackcyclist]

Interesting to see your HR was 172 over the line run1 & 180 run2. Granted it was back to back, but this suggests that run2 was harder? Or is it not that simple?

[@gplama]

Not that simple. And not the focus of this video. My response to the effort is another topic.

[@blackcyclist]

@@gplama wow that response was faster than Domenic Paolilli climbing up the KOM. ,😂 Loved the video & it does answer the original question. I hope you make the other video. Im interested in the science behind The mechanics of it all. Thanks for keeping us all inspired

[@alannkevin]

I have an elite drivo 1 trainer, and my trainer seems to be harder than my friends tacx Neo. My concern is that my trainer is really stiff, when I go downhill I still have to pedal with 36/23 and sometimes 36/19 and I still feel my trainer really hard like if I was using 50/15 on a decent. I can’t use 50/15 on flats because it turns like a rock it’s humanly impossible to turn my cranks for a sprint... In fact I’ve never used the big chainring for more that 5 seconds without hearing my gears, bike or chain crack. The most I can put is 758 watts and that’s because it gets to a point that I can’t rotate my cranks due to the resistance being so high on my trainer. My “trainer difficulty” is set to 100% but believe me I’ll pay someone to try into turning the cranks. I tried everything from greasing the belt to adjusting it, emails to elite here and there but nothing seems to fix it. I weight 160lbs and my height is 5’10” I’ve been riding for 8 years now, and I consider myself more than a regular joe. Today I climbed a 17% hill on Watopia, in the mountain route, my gearings were 36/25 all the time, the cranks were so stiff that I had to literally push my knees down because the cranks were so hard to turn, and the watts were like 145 or so 🤷🏻‍♂️. That’s stupid, I ride my local route which has a hill that is 16% , 223km long called Sugar Loaf here in Clermont FL, and I go up that hill on the same gearings and i tackle it very comfortable sometimes when I feel good with 36/23, I don’t know what it is but I might have to weight cheat to see if I can bring the resistance down a little because I might need a knee replacement soon if I keep having this crap all the way to 100%

[@gplama]

Let's be honest - Anything over 13% for any period of time is a horrible experience. 17% isn't fun. Outside that's a leg snapper. If you're concerned the Elite trainer isn't realistic, that's one for Elite support. There's likely to be queries about what weight you have set within the trainer itself (MyETraining App) and if your using Bluetooth to Zwift, etc... but I'll leave this to their support team.

[@Siimply_KayKay]

Does the wahoo kickr core not have the trainer difficulty level slider feature.

[@gplama]

It does

[@Siimply_KayKay]

How do I get to set it as I don’t see it as in your vid. Thanks for the reply. Just bought a kickr core and started zwifting so I’m still learning about it all.

[@slippin_jimmy]

So presumably setting it to 0% would defeat the point of buying an interactive smart trainer. I guess all Zwift is interested in is the watts you're producing. It doesn't care how you produce them. Chris Froome would probably set it to 0% and spin away :)

[@Ramin233]

froome would probably motorise everything

[@alexv.t.9456]

Ramin just made a headshot XD