5 Kills in 30 Seconds? The Controversial Story of M.M. Alam

[@showtime112]

Play War Thunder now with my link, and get a massive, free bonus pack including vehicles, boosters and more on PC and consoles: playwt.link/showtime112

[@backstagelyf4609]

It is a made up story, it is a common question where the so-called ace pilot was in the 1971 war which happened in a few years. This is bull shit made by Pakistanis like they made a fairy tale about the battle of chawinda .

[@johnraptis8953]

nice video i waiting the second part of Romanian Air force in Soviet Union

[@GoogleHarassesAndBully]

Nobody gives a fkkk if you think alam never lied.... You can call him dad too.... There is no proof he did shoot any planes.... Word of mouth don't matter

[@shovnkazi]

Actually he's a Bangladeshi pilot

[@johnraptis8953]

@@shovnkazi pakistani pilot

[@yasirpasha8140]

He still got 5 confirm kills..that makes him the only ace in the subcontinent

[@showtime112]

His is officially the only fighter ace in the subcontinent, that much is true.

[@samnigam3451]

​@@showtime112 correction 3 kills

[@Slave_of_the_Most_Merciful]

​@@showtime112 Isn't Saiful Azam as well? He destroyed 4 Israeli Aircrafts in 6 day Arab Israeli War and 1 Indian aircraft in 1965 Indo Pak war?

[@werewolf632]

​@showtime112 Actually, there is another Bengali pilot who is an ace: Saiful Azam. He flew for Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Jordan. Saiful Azam downed 4 Israeli aircrafts and one 1 Indian making him an Ace. Both Saiful Azam and MM Alam was Bengali from East Pakistan. Present day Bangladesh.

[@fnstechno]

@@werewolf632 alam continued to live in present day Pakistan until passing

[@umarhashim1111]

I met M M Alam twice. Once when i went for a haircut and the other time when I visited the PAF Faisal hospital. That was a few years before his death. He was highly respected by people from all walks of life. He never married. He was given a permanent VIP room in Officers Mess with all facilities, messing and a personal servant free of cost till the end of his life. His post retirement photos with a group of senior serving squadron officers hang proudly in many bases. He was a very devout man and was not afraid to speak boldly and openly what he believed was right. He breathed his last in 2013 and is buried in PAF Masroor Karachi.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@leonardwilliams8109]

RIP to a top knotch fighter pilot. And to all those young men who served their respective nations.

[@colsanjaybajpai5747]

Over estimated at best. Its a habit of paf pilots. Not that MM alam did not perform but paf has exgragerated its claims to a count almost double in 71 war. Call it professiolism if you want.

[@umarhashim1111]

@@colsanjaybajpai5747 just like IAF's exaggerated claim of F16 shoot down?

[@SwiftEagleOne]

Little Dragon, Peanut Alam was a mild mannered gentleman. Exceptionally valiant and patriotic air warrior. On the ground he was a down to earth human and a religious devout. Also, he was a teetotaller and stayed away from alcohol that his other GD (P) fellow officers relished in those days pretending to be “Gora Sahibs.”

[@DistantLightInThe]

I met MM Alam as a kid when he came to our place when my father was DCS(O)(deputy Chief Of Airstaff (operations)) and he gave me this fighter aircraft book, which was pretty cool. But what I really liked was his autograph: he would use a ruler to draw a straight line and then an M and then another straight line another M and then Alam. It imitated a hospital machine that tracks the heartbeat. Can you do some research on the Feb 27th incident where the PAF shot down a MiG-21 and a SU-30 and conducted a pretty mind blowing cruise missile strike with Mirages. Of course the missiles purposefully missed and were meant to be a warning but still. There was also a case where the Indian forces shot-down their own helicopter meant to rescue the SU-30 crew.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for sharing your experience! I did a video on the topic you suggest, perhaps I will do a remake one day as there might be new info since then.

[@DistantLightInThe]

@ thanks. So I watched it. Of course you’d say that this is a bias but an mi was indeed was shot down by Indian anti aircraft and this is not disputed. Secondly, the second f-16 pilot, Hasan Siddiqui was also awarded with a medal for shooting down the su 30, albeit one medal lower because of the unconfirmed nature of the kill. Which I believe is messed up. Either you believe it or you don’t. There is a very clear mobile video of two shoots coming down from that day at the same time and also a video that was quickly removed where an Indian news anchor talked about an su 30 shot down. But I will admit there also a video of locals screaming “where’s the second one” meaning after capturing Abhinandan they said that. But then 45 seconds, if India is to be believed, is a long long time for the mig 21 to be shot down so that seems like the attitude of over activated locals. But like you said, we will never know unless India admits to an Su 30 years from now. Likely they won’t. Also I will add the su 30 , from Pakistani side, for what it’s worth, was indeed shot down according to all the officers I talked to according to two separate radar confirmations Also, as you rightly pointed out towards the end, Pakistan could not say f 16 were used because of possible sanctions and it was revealed because the Indian air force official held up an exploded wreckage of an AIM 120, which clearly stated the type of missile so Pakistan had to come clean, but then that’s India kind of admitting to an exploded amraam.

[@muqtadakamal9569]

India also doesn't accept i think the fact that PAF fighter Flt Lt Abdul Sattar alvi made an indian jet land like he made indian pilot ( flt lt nihal Singh) surrendered.​@@DistantLightInThe The indian jet is still on display for general public in Karachi. So India also claimed that they killed 400 soldiers in feb 2019 in Balakot, later on found that they just cut off some trees and killed a crow. Yes it weren't even bombs they were auxiliary tanks dropped by Indian jets so they can scramble

[@asadashah]

@@DistantLightInThe There is a significant doubt on the SU-30 kill, even by Tufail Qaiser. There was a lock and a missile was fired, but most likely SU-30 evaded it, albeit very narrowly. Credit must also be given to IAF pilot Abhinandan who conducted himself very bravely after the capture. He was composed, professional, and a gentleman. A worthy enemy!

[@SD-NORD]

As a neutral myself I thought that was a very fair presentation of all sides involved .... also no side "lost face" all did their duty, in the fortunes of war some fall but none failed!

[@showtime112]

Thank you for this comment! It's a fair conclusion.

[@leonardwilliams8109]

I first read of Alam's fight with the Hunters years ago in a British aviation magazine. I believe your video is a very balanced overall account of what happened. Your video also highlights the confusion of an aerial dogfight involving many aircraft. The speed of jet fighters also add to the muddle. Well done! Thank you!

[@showtime112]

I appreciate this, thank you!

[@mpgingdl]

This is how air combat should be portrayed. Complex, messy, and vulnerable to propaganda.

[@showtime112]

That describes air combat quite well 😁

[@gr8cap]

thanks for such a comprehensive re enacting - either way an aircraft damaged in a fight to be unfightable means a kill - he knocked out those jets in a minute - its an achievment to feast on

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@alejandrocasalegno1657]

The most probable number for Alam´s victories is three.....this alone is very impressive for a single combat!!!!

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the feedback! Three kills in a single sortie is impressive by any standards.

[@Lhenry-pf5zn]

My father Captain C.J. (Hank) HENRY, RCAF, recounted stories about training the Pakistan pilots on Canadian Sabres at Operational Training Unit, CFB Chatham , Canada in the 1950s. They were trained by the best.

[@GoogleHarassesAndBully]

Canadian pilots never were best so forget it son

[@showtime112]

Thank you for sharing that!

[@memeconsumer773]

Worth noting is that they also trained with NATO, CEATO and SENTO forces at the time, which would've given them great training

[@annoyinghacker8650]

​@@memeconsumer773actually Pakistani pilots fought wars way before NATO or other organizations were made and they are very professional ❤

[@shroudjr3705]

Thank your Father for us. He has our gratitude.

[@sanderpeeters763]

Thank you this video, and the honest representation given to both sides. I'm not Indian or Pakistani, but have worked with a lot of them. If you raise the story of M.M. Alam, you find emotions from both sides of the spectrum - I hope that videos like this help in elaborating the facts and not the emotions.

[@showtime112]

That was the objective! Thank you very much for your positive feedback!

[@donparker1823]

Thanks!

[@showtime112]

Thanks once again!

[@sailordude2094]

The Hunter was the hunted. Sad that people freak out about an unbiased video, thanks!

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching. I guess not everyone agrees on the definition of 'unbiased' 😁

[@slimkhalifadogg]

A little anecdote about Air Cdre Alam narrated by Air Cdre Jamal Hossain: The great M M Alam was comparing the combat effectiveness of F-86 and Hunter aircraft. This was after the 1965 Pak-India war during which, while flying in his F-86, he had shot down a fair number of Indian Hunters. "F-86 is much superior to the Hunter. It is superb. Great. The F-86 will always shoot down the Hunter. Always." "Sir, what if you were flying the Hunter against the F-86 in combat?" "Of course I would shoot the F-86 easily. It is no match to the Hunter." Great video as always btw, especially on such a tricky topic.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for sharing the anecdote and for liking the video!

[@MohammedKhaled-ju7gy]

I’ve seen this particular video long ago. Cocky af 😅

[@mfarooqhayat8182]

@slimkhalifadogg the hunter was faster, had better climb rate, theoretically it could turn better in comparison with the F-86. Now, the indians fighting on that day never used the vertical plane superiority of the hunter, were heavily loaded with external ordinance and were operating at the extreme of their range. Against a PAF strike on an IAF airbase two out of 3 attacking sabres were shot down because they tried to outclimb the hunters they were engaging and the sabres were at the extreme of their operational range just like the hunters that fought intercepting MM Alam on the day under discussion. Sabre's main superiority was in it's defensive role and that it carried heat seeking missiles. While true that the hunter had a better turn rate than the sabre but since the sabres had an altitude advantage so the turn rate doesn't make a big difference if an intercepting aircraft has an altitude advantage and comes down in a diving turn.

[@Agent-cx3xj]

​@@snd9826 that pilot was British not Indian

[@nassermj7671]

GEN CHUCK YEAGER: 1971 when we were at our weakest: "The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians’] a**es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I’m certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below"

[@pablopeter3564]

GREAT VIDEO ¡¡¡¡¡ Congratulations for your hard work and research. Keeping aviation history alive. Thanks and greetings from Mexico City.

[@showtime112]

Greetings to you as well! I hope I visit your country someday, my wife is really into that part of the world.

[@RealDarko]

Interesting how you try to add light to those events! Merry Christmas mate.

[@showtime112]

Likewise! Thank you for being around!

[@MahmudGhaznawi-iy3yu]

Irrespective of exactly how many Indian jets M Alam shot down it is a commonly acknowledged view that he was the best fighter pilot in the India Pakistani wars. Well done showtime112 for a nice video!

[@showtime112]

Thanks! That's the point Sajad Haider makes, even if you apply the strictest criteria, he still had four victories. Only Saiful Azam had the same score (although mostly in another conflict).

[@theslobokost]

Another great vid 112, excellent job, svaka ti čast...

[@showtime112]

Zahvaljujem na podršci!

[@abdulmismail]

Excellent video with a cross-section of expert analysis. I appreciated the way - to avoid detractors - you included 2 Pakistani sources to counteract Alam's claims.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment! It's interesting to have objective sources from the country of the claimant. Usually it's just 'one side says this, the other side says that'.

[@abdulmismail]

@@showtime112 Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm British but my parents are from Bangladesh - so I always open the popcorn to watch the fireworks in the comments section when you publish a India/Pakistan video. Keep up the great work.

[@donparker1823]

Another great video. I don't really know what I'm talking about but it seems like those 6, .50 cal machine guns on the F-86 were more lethal against the Hunter than on the Mig-15. Perhaps the Hunters systems were more complex and more vulnerable to a few hits vs the Mig. I can hardly get over how good these graphics are.

[@showtime112]

Thanks! Regarding the graphics, the original video looks much better as the YT compression reduces quality of dark scenes quite significantly.

[@George_M_]

He probably thought he shot down that many - but hits that look fatal can often not be. Guy was clearly a skilled deflection shooter regardless.

[@showtime112]

I quite agree. Guy knew his stuff and he really wouldn't be the first pilot who mistook damage for a kill.

[@Riccardo_Silva]

...and the first choice is (drumroll, opens the envelope) SHOWTIME 112!!!! (standing ovation)

[@showtime112]

I appreciate this, thank you! 😁

[@cannonfodder4376]

I am inclined to believe Tufail in that M.M Alam ended up fighting two different formations without realizing it. Although I disagree with him about the Sidewinder proxy fuse leading to a kill. A good and fair look at this remarkable day in air combat.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for yet another comment! These air combats really tend to become confusing and putting pieces together can get tricky. That's why there's so much disagreement.

[@TheNorbica]

Very well researched! Great video and thank you for your work!

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your support!

[@syedayanather713]

U finally made a video on him ❤

[@abdullahbinshahid3701]

You made an Honest review I highly appreciate that coming from Pakistan. People with Rationality will not Comment against it. You should not worry about emotional people, they are everywhere and they can say whatever they want but we all need to accept the truth.

[@cocodog85]

another great video. in depth unbiased analysis of two sides who are at war with each other on all fronts of media is always difficult ...season greetings🎀 and i wish you a prosperous new year. 🎉

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your comment! Also, thank you for being subbed for such a long time!

[@fatihdurmaz3490]

Thanks for video.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@MG-is5bg]

Air to air missile in 1965 shows, pakistan was well supported by US

[@showtime112]

It was. But after this war, things started to change.

[@MahmudGhaznawi-iy3yu]

And India was supported by Britain and Russia. The Indians had migs which the Pakistanis destroyed on the ground.

[@MG-is5bg]

@@MahmudGhaznawi-iy3yu still one sided reply.. In 1965 India and Soviet relations were not as close as the US and Pakistan had. The biggest problem with nations like pakistan, Iran, north Korea, Iraq is that you guys always behave Big mouth over confidence and never lose any war with 0 casualties like video games that is why nobody trusts on 30 seconds

[@clintwestwood5187]

Indian migs had hardly arrived in 65 . This was because the US denied sabres to india . Migs came in their own in 71 when they blew PAF out of skies. ..

[@MG-is5bg]

@@snd9826 in 71 not 65

[@rElliot09]

Excellent video, well researched.

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your positive comment!

[@simoncampbell-smith6745]

I think your assessment is accurate as can be. The fog of war and propaganda can make for a toxic cocktail.

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your feedback, thank you!

[@rv6ejguy]

Another great video! It should be noted that the Pakistani Sabres were Canadair built Mk6s with the much more powerful Orenda 14 engine. Quite superior to the J47 powered F86 E/F. Speeds were very similar to the Indian Hunter Mk56 down low and at altitude however the Hunter had a higher rate of climb and 30mm cannon vs. the 0.5 machine guns of the F86. The MK6 Sabre will out roll and out turn the Hunter. The Hunter will out zoom the Sabre. Again, strength and weaknesses to each with the more skilled and savvy pilot, understanding relative strengths and weakness, usually coming out on top.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the comment! I believe the Sabres used in 1965 were original, American ones. Pakistan later acquired some ex-German, Canadair Sabres which were used in 1971. However, I use Canadair Sabre here because in WT, they can carry missiles 😁

[@nedee1111]

Pakistan only aquirred 90 orenda engined Candair ex Luftwaffe sabres ​ just before the 1971 war .@@showtime112

[@rv6ejguy]

@@showtime112 I believe you are correct. The PAF didn't receive the Mk6 Sabres until early 1966, so after this conflict was over. They called them F86Es in their service which adds to the confusion. They did perform more work in the later 1971 conflict where they faced even tougher opponents. My father flew RCAF MK6s in Europe in the mid 1950s with 430 squadron. Was his favorite aircraft of all time and master of the skies there until the F100 started showing up in numbers with the USAF.

[@pilot_ayan10]

I love your videos, and I think you should make more content on the Pakistan-India wars. It's a fascinating and serious topic that I feel not many people know much about, especially the aerial battles that took place. Additionally, I recommend creating a video about the most recent air battle between the Pakistani Air Force and the Indian Air Force in 2019. Why not cover that as well? Keep up the hard work! Also, I believe M. M. Alam scored at least 6-8 air-to-air kills, which automatically makes him an ace. That alone is something for Pakistanis to celebrate.

[@nayanbmengr]

India Pakistan war videos should not have a comments section. It becomes a cesspit for idiots to wage a flame war that serves nobody.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your comment! I intend to keep covering events from the Indo-Pakistani wars and probably also later incidents as well.

[@Infoignition2.0]

Hi sir I am a you tuber my self and a Pakistani I have watched your video carefully you are spitting fact, MM Alam is our hero and we are proud of him ,,In general PAF is more trained and profectional than IAF but salute to pilot of both country ❤❤

[@vikeng21]

Hindsight is a complete different ball game. However the pilot had to decide it in split seconds and credit should be giving for his bravery.

[@showtime112]

Exactly

[@vittorrioverddi3867]

Very good presentation. We shouldn't forget that during many wars, propaganda is an extra weapon.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much! That's why it takes years, or even decades to properly assess such events.

[@chups1447]

Great work! 😊

[@showtime112]

Thanks, Chups!

[@Le_Picard]

Personnaly, the only thing that I don't understand in this strory is why nobody bothered checking the gun cam images, because it could have resolved most of the problem and avoid useless controversies. Aside from that, this is a well made video as allways, and I wish you a mery Chistmas

[@696pk]

Probably sabre`s gun camera does not work at high G turns

[@javedmcheema7948]

There is no mystery, M M Alam had lots of respect even in North American Aviation, the manufacturer of F86 Sabre. Actually, F86 was deployed by USAF at the end of the Korean War in 1950, so it could not be tested for all the potential it had. It was only Indo-Pak wars of 1965 and 1971 that F86 Sabre and Star F104 saw the whole dramas. Actually, as a NATO member, Germany had refused to deploy F104 for some design flaws in 1964, but PAF proved it otherwise. That is one big reason why Lockheed Martin used inputs from PAF pilots in the design and development of F16 Fighting Falcon.

[@gamingtrashcan9030]

Yes man, waiting for that video for quite a time bro

[@showtime112]

I'd lie if I said there weren't any requests for it .... 😁

[@gamingtrashcan9030]

@@showtime112 u defo wud

[@foxtrotwhiskey874]

Another masterpiece by Showtime 112. well done sir! dissecting the war chest thumping by both sides and try to separate the facts in India Pakistan conflict is no easy task.

[@showtime112]

I'm grateful for your words! These scenarios require, let's call it 'distance' to analyze properly😀

[@digitalboy4415]

Interesting! The video animations help! And I like the unbiased approach. 👍

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your positive comment!

[@Moosa_Says]

As a Pakistani, I love MM Alam, He shot 1, 2 5 or 7, it really doesn't matter. The fact that Indian sources and Aalam's story match a lot itself is a proof he didn't lie. I mean he could have said literally anything. He was a legend and will always be remembered :). and Great video -👍👍

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your healthy way of seeing things!

[@muhammadusmanrafique3517]

even showtime112 can not escape the snail.

[@traviswalker8933]

Which snail?

[@muhammadusmanrafique3517]

@traviswalker8933 it's a long meme in war thunder He sponsored the company, gaijin. Gaijin has the logo of a snail and is greedy for money so everyone calls it snail and that it would get you if you don't pay.

[@showtime112]

Well, I use WT to produce many of the videos anyway so why not make them pay for it? 😁

[@muhammadusmanrafique3517]

@showtime112 beware of the snail. It can show up to you house with a kv1 if it like

[@ravenclaw8975]

Thanks for your hard work and this video. No one can accuse of you of being biased, as you present the alternative theories very well. I'm an enthusiast of aviation history, but my knowledge of the Indo-Pakistani War is very poor. You have inspired me to research this conflict more seriously.

[@showtime112]

Yes they can, and they do 😁😁😁 Thank you for the positive comment!

[@vinceely2906]

Didn't Franz von Werra the only Luftwaffe pilot to escape British captivity in WW2, claim he came upon a silly amount of fighters circling to land and shot them all down?

[@showtime112]

There were a bunch of claims on a single mission but I don't think they took place in such a short time.

[@SwiftEagleOne]

@@showtime112 Roger that.

[@huzaifaniaz7329]

Thank you for making this video. MM ALAM is form my city Karachi as well as Sarfaraz Rafiqui.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and commenting! I hope you watched the earlier two videos where Rafiqui appears

[@huzaifaniaz7329]

@showtime112 yeah already watched them, both were brilliantly made.

[@m_ahmad_anwar]

The first plane crashed on its own, the second and third shot by the missile but the pilot didn't know anything, 4 and 5 just came in front. That is the same way people make mistakes and get blown.

[@iftikharfaridy2974]

Brilliant . . Absolutely Brilliant narration of this most successful Dogfight of the entire Indo-Pak War of 1965 . . To be fair, I ll credit Alam for 05 Kills and 03 Damage for the Dogfights he did on 06th, 07th and 16th Sep, 1965 . . And your video narration of this combat is the Best I ve ever seen and heard in all my years of reading or watching military history . . As a gift from my side, If you ever visit Pakistan, I,ll sponser your 03 days stay at a Hotel and sight seeing of Alam's and my city, the Karachi . . 😘

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much! I'm happy to see that people appreciate objective views. And I might take you up on that offer some day, who knows? 😁

[@iftikharfaridy2974]

@showtime112 . . A promise is a promise . . You ll be my guest and will eagerly wait for your visit . . Regards and Best Wishes . .

[@saqibrizwan9043]

This video is the first ever in history. Great work.

[@showtime112]

Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!

[@Frenzyv2]

i can't escape the snail

[@daaniyalmasum6842]

Enjoyed this well researched video.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much!

[@juancarlosperezcortes9259]

Thank for your time in presenting every week an interesting chapter of aerial warfare. I cant ever say something bad about your research. Thanks Professor

[@showtime112]

I appreciate this honest support. I don't recall having been called 'Professor' before 😁

[@MahmudGhaznawi-iy3yu]

As showtime113 alluded, it is quite plausible that the two hunters that Alam damaged could have been viewed by him as destroyed. It’s a plausible view. Either way Alam was a great fighter pilot!

[@JSFGuy]

Let's check it out.

[@showtime112]

Feel free 😁

[@merlin51h84]

I thought it was a well balanced explanation and illustration of the events in question. I guess the two facts that provide some of the evidence are, the number of Hunter crash sites, which if correct show the true numbers and secondly, the lack of gun camera film to support the claims. Good video.

[@farooq30th]

Alam shot down one on the sixth and three on the 7th. His first kill on the 7th was a missile shot when the Hunter pulled up to avoid 90 Ft high H T wires. That put him in missile tone envelop and was shot down with GAR-8. Next two kills were of the Escorts who had made cardinal blunder of entering a turning battle without punching their Drops. Both paid for this with their lives. Alam should be forgiven two additional in that battle because he did fire at them and punctured their fuel tanks and assuming them to be dead ducks he pressed on towards East hoping to catch other straglars. His last and fifth Kill was in Kasur area.

[@mujtabamajeed4039]

Great well researched video and rest in peace for sajjad haider who passed away on 3 January 2025

[@696pk]

Hunter was a much heavier and robust fighter than sabre. One hunter took several hundred hits from a PAF sabre guns and yet was able to return to base

[@kurnuyt5742]

Good show and i'll keep watching!😉

[@showtime112]

I'm happy to hear it, thank you!

[@ElaniMoonstaf]

Merry Christmas to you and your family! 🌲🌲

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much, Merry Christmas to you as well!

[@amitnachman3840]

Nice video. Speaking of remarkable one sortie kill streaks, have you considered a video on Giora Epstiens claims? A legend no doubt, but with 17 overall invluding 2 sorties with 4 kills each within 48 hrs...would be intresting to look into.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment. I'll definitely cover Epstein in the future. For now, I'm doing a series on the 1956 Arab-Israeli War but once that's complete, I might cover the more recent battles.

[@rogermilla2358]

Nice video, the fact that even Tufail and Haider register serious disagreements with the 5 in 30 seconds story and present more modest and realistic scenarios should be the definitive proof that the original claim is bogus wartime myth-making.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment! All five kills are not very likely, but it was still a very successful mission. Two other kills prove that this wasn't just a fluke.

[@LawrenceWahDay]

Fascinating. Thankyou

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment!

[@naherf385]

Great video. Now the videos on the famous Wagah-Atari strike on Indian formation and strike on Pathankot by Wing Commander Syed Sajjad Haider are due at your end. Sajjad Haider was perhaps the only legendary commander of PAF who led massive strikes against the enemy and never lost a single jet in them.

[@showtime112]

Thank you! This particular episode was covered in a Patreon exclusive video on the channel. Perhaps someday I'll remake it for general audience if better assets become available.

[@branka4226]

Great work

[@showtime112]

Hvala!

[@nasserkuzbari2205]

Great videos.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much!

[@MarceloBorba-t5m]

Excellent video, as usual. Your respect to both sides is really appreciated. You are reaching an excellence level in your historical reenactment. Great! (Hunter is more beautiful, but Sabre is the best).

[@showtime112]

Those words make me feel better all of a sudden 😁 I could also agree that Hunter is more elegant of the two.

[@abbaerfani9007]

Just continue with your Gerat videos please thanks ❤

[@VC27]

As usual, an unbiased account of the events. Bravo Showtime 112! There are many contested claims and incidents in the history of aerial warfare. Perhaps the most debated ones are about (1) Who shot down the Red Baron? (2) M.M. Alam - Did he or didn't he? Whatever anyone may say, he certainly was a gifted pilot and didn't deserve the ignominy which was heaped upon him by the PAF. They practically turfed him out after claiming that he was illiterate. Now, that is a real shame.

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your comment! I also think Alam was a talented fighter pilot who found himself in a difficult situation there was no easy way out of.

[@tedenderpal1299]

I find your videos very interesting, I know little of these conflicts.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much!

[@hughthomson6201]

Great video. Fair and well presented comment. Thank you.

[@showtime112]

I am very grateful for this positive comment!

[@saqibrizwan9043]

Loved this animation. ❤

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment!

[@MahmudGhaznawi-iy3yu]

This air battle was a clear win for the Pakistan Air Force as the Indians did not shoot any Pakistani jets down and they themselves admitted losing at least 3 hunters (maybe more). Well done showtime112.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment, I'm glad you appreciate the content.

[@vincentstella5131]

@Showtime 112 Thank you once again for another great video and a balanced assessment of the engagements based upon the sources you have at hand.

[@showtime112]

I am very grateful for your positive comment!

[@wastetime7564]

This man was a legend. He was born in (current india), fought for Pakistan and ethnically a Bangali. Although in Bangladesh we see him as a traitor (for supporting Pakistani government in 1971 bengali massacre). But he was a legend.

[@Otokichi786]

6:04 War Thumoer ad ends, back to F-86 vs. Hawker Hunter.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

It is important to notice, war is chaotic, and in the stressful heat of battle, people often mistake things with other things, to confirm any event, a lot of cross referencing needs to be done between the evidence, when if any ever exists they are often declassified decades later, if ever, cause again, people may end up in places they are supposed not to be at, or do things they shouldn't have, then countries just don't admit it ever happened, or make cover up stories... it's not easy to conclude a solid result in these events...

[@showtime112]

Quite right. Politics often get in the way of getting to the bottom of things. And memories of human beings are not necessarily the most precise instruments 😁

[@DataWaveTaGo]

*Superb as usual!* Once again, clear & steady naration plus an even handed evaluation that highlights the confusion of aerial warfare. Thank you!

[@showtime112]

I'm happy to hear such nice words, thank you!

[@Pakhtun-Pak47]

In fact as a Pakistani I've always maintained given that I read the PAF's own account of this after the battle was that this pilot MM Alam had taken out three Indian planes in about 40 seconds, and it was possible because they had presented a very easy target. So later this officer took out another Indian aircraft, and then another. The last Indian plane limped back to his country. I met MM myself. What a man even at that age. He said to me this that "some of them (Indian pilots) were very proficient, but the ones that I got to my luck that day were all idiots" (sorry for that word). So in all, five tally, in like give or take 5 minutes, one of the aircraft made it back to India. Combined kills for MM Alam painted in Indian flag on his favourite f-86 Saber were nine, seven confirmed two probables, one of which was from the five he battled that day. I've always corrected Pakistanis about this five planes in 30 seconds account or the JF-17 shotdown to Indian planes on February 27th 2019, both mines having been taken out by two different f-16s with their aim 120c air to air ordinance.

[@1joshjosh1]

Happy comment !!!

[@showtime112]

Thanks, I hope the algorithm appreciates it 😁

[@AAAA-gp3vk]

Thank you for a great account. I have been looking for this for a while. Thanks for providing both sides. Note that I wouldn’t put much credence on air commodore sajjad haiders account. Both were rival squadron commanders during the war and sajjad haider was I think a bit jealous that this Alam was able to come out of the war as a household name. Both retired as air commodores and could not get a higher rank but both were course mates and did not like each other. I think the kakar kill is very plausible. It was early sunrise and visibility was low so why is it so unbelievable to lose track of the missile? Remember Alam is looking and scanning for other hunters yea it is possible that he took his eyes off the missile for a 2nd and lost track of it. Why didn’t he shoot kakars hunter when he saw it without the pilot ? Well he flew by it at a high speed and at that point he was looking for other hunters so why break off and try to get behind a hunter that was going to crash anyway ? At best you can say 50/50 to that

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment. It is possible that the recently deceased Sajad Haider wasn't completely objective but again, he makes some good questions. As for Kacker's Hunter, one answer came to me when I was shooting the scenes for the video. It was early morning and the Hunters were flying in the general direction of east. Sun was still quite low and under such conditions, it wouldn't be unthinkable that Alam didn't notice the ejection.

[@SwiftEagleOne]

In aerial warfare and dogfights back in the 1960’s the technology was not as developed. Ground air defence and radars were primitive then. The air warriors relied more on their battle skills rather than machines and ordnance. They were bitter adversaries and rapidly boasted of their scores mostly inflating them. The propaganda war took them to yet another altitude.

[@showtime112]

True. One of the reasons why people find combat from this period fascinating is that they had to rely on their skills and really get close.

[@anselmdanker9519]

Thank you for covering this episode 😊

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching it and commenting!

[@michaeldenesyk3195]

Great video! The 2 countries in question should fight to see who has the biggest chip on their shoulder!

[@showtime112]

Thanks, I'm glad to hear you appreciate the content!

[@chriscarbaugh3936]

I thought the Hunter outclassed the Sabre. Seems Alan was a. Excellent pilot, would he have been better utilised flying a F-104? A great video; I agree with your and Haider’s assessment. The guy is still a hero!

[@TheGrant65]

The Sabre is ideal for a prolonged, high-G turn like the one in which Alam destroyed at least 2x Hunter. The F-104 was designed primarily as a high speed, fast climbing interceptor; it was the antithesis of a dog-fighter and was notoriously unmanoeuvrable. (In this regard it struggled to be competitive in exercises versus its contemporary US rival, the F-106.) Hence the Starfighter was used most successfully against other fighters in diving boom & zoom passes, or in pursuing enemy aircraft that were RTB.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback! Sabre is not entirely inferior to the F-104. The latter aircraft had very poor maneuverability while the Sabre really excelled in low-level, turning fights.

[@KmRajib-d8q]

M.M Alam Bron 🇵🇰 East Pakistan🇧🇩 Now Bangladesh.

[@i.setyawan]

Amazing video. The Indo-Pakistani air war needs more coverage, and your video is an excellent contribution.

[@truthonly1264]

You forgot to take into account F104 pilots who saw and confirmed 5 kills by MM Alam from a higher altitude. They are the direct witness of the battle and their account is more credible than any historians or IAF who would certainly hide their losses for obvious reasons

[@showtime112]

No I didn't. 7:51 You just weren't paying attention.

[@Cuccos19]

I'm curious about you have any information about Yugoslavian war less known events about military aviation? Like the Serbian MiG-21, which was chased(?) by the Croatian air defense through the Hungarian border and it's released its two BL-755 British made cluster ammunition over the Hungarian border-town, Barcs? The bomblets fell onto the outskirt of the town, into a cementery and onto some local houses. No human injuries happened, only a dog were killed. The media than said that the MiG tried to get speed and altitude and got rid off its payload to reduce weight, so it was not an purposeful attack against Hungarian "targets", only a unfortunate event.

[@showtime112]

I'm afraid I don't have much more on that incident other than the general info you described. The aerial component of the wars in former Yugoslavia in the early 1990s haven't been that well researched. (or so it seems to me)

[@seanscon]

here i am accusing you to be biased towards; or paid by

[@showtime112]

I hope YT algorithm appreciates your engagement 😁

[@ET-mr4iu]

I don't know how you do it. Having attempted to use Pakistani and Indian sources for research on military subjects decades ago, I was quickly put off by all their inflated and doubtful claims. One of my professors did his PhD using these sources and he said it was painful! So congratulations on your rational analysis 👍

[@showtime112]

You just have to accept it as a fact. Sides disagree about many such battles and it's really not limited to Indo-Pakistani wars. Arab-Israeli wars are not too different in many aspects and even in Vietnam, you can find many inconsistencies when you compare sources from two sides. Good thing is that it gives me great pleasure to untangle confused stories such as this one :)

[@ET-mr4iu]

@showtime112 Oh I know about inflated claims, having seen some created first hand, but some of these guys could work for Hollywood!

[@afzaalkhan.m]

Excellent video. No bias

[@Chilly_Billy]

What a shame you had to include the "bias" disclaimer.

[@janwitts2688]

No he did not.. I'm obviously not from the region but I can say with 99.99999 percent probability that he did not shoot down that many aircraft in such a time frame.. you would need to straff an airfield to take out that many aircraft

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@gringo5866279]

Somehow i believe that he didn't able to shoot the 5 aircrafts in a matter of only 30 sec really hard to believe the plane you try to hunt also makes turns takes evasive manuevers you have to chase an aircraft sometimes quite long he could had scored allmost 7 air to air kills like an ace but not that 5 in less than a minute i am from Pakistan he is a war hero to us an ace fighter pilot but 30 seconds story looks to me a very over exaggerated too much far fetched some fabricated narrative

[@showtime112]

The '30 seconds' was probably closer to a minute as I don't think anybody used a stopwatch here and estimating time in combat can be rather inaccurate.

[@zamraaj0652]

Thanx. Your account is very balanced.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@yousufhasan4998]

Excellent video and providing input from all sides and the amount of research done makes for a quality video! Clearly Alam did not shoot down 9 or 7 Hunters in all as claimed by some Pakistani sources. The only controversy is did he shoot down 4 or 5. It seems Kaiser Tufail's account is probably the most accurate. The first Hunter Alam shot down on the 7th of Sept is contested but common sense dictates it should not be! It would take an astonishing amount of coincidence for the Hunter to develop a fuel-line problem at around the same time as Alam releases his 2nd side-winder. I believe Tufail correctly credits Alam for this kill making him the only ace in the sub-continent.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for giving feedback!

[@briancooper2112]

Interesting.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much!

[@branlaser3943]

3:39 to 4:02 is the kind shit luck i have in war thunder

[@showtime112]

The game can be quite frustrating, I agree 😁

[@mfarooqhayat8182]

i am a pakistani and an air war enthusiast. there are sevral aspects to this air battle. no.1 that the indians were fighting at extreme range and therefore could not mix with the defending PAF interceptors. no.2 that the mission priorities of the Indian pilots was ground attack and while it is true that there was an escort element among the Indian fighters, the defending PAF interceptors had the upper hand in the way that endurance was'nt thier problem, they were guided by GCI and that the sabre had better sustained turn rate. even though most of kills were gun kills but the indians were conscious about the missle armament of of the PAF interceptors and the indians were also conscious of the presence of PAF F-104s' as top cover which though not as meneuverable and either the sabre or the hunter, had an impression due to which the indian pilots called it "Badmash". over all the indian pilots had a very non-aggresive attitude and that the PAF pilots were able to kill the hunters in a turning dogfight because the hunter tended to loose speed in a sustained turning dogfight.

[@59cvlpekhlua75]

Also, i think another Possiblility is that the PAF pilot used his missle to shoot one down and got the other by surprise. Probably shooting their engine or exhaust. Or it's a litlle bit exaggerated and took a lil bit longer then 30 secs

[@showtime112]

The time is probably exaggerated as it's hard to measure exactly under such stress. Recently, I did a video about two Sea Harrier pilots shooting down three Argentine Daggers and one of the British pilots said 'we shot down three Daggers in five seconds'. It really couldn't have been that quick, it must have been closer to 30.

[@saqibrizwan9043]

Do you have that of the Pathankot Strike by the PAF? It was led by Squadron Leader Syed Sajjad Haider with 8 F-86s.

[@showtime112]

Yes but it's a Patreon exclusive video.

[@saqibrizwan9043]

@@showtime112 What does this mean? How may I get it?

[@showtime112]

Patreon is a service which enables financial support to various content creators. You can pledge a certain monthly amount and get various benefits such as exclusive content, early access and the ability to influence video topics. You can check it out here: www.patreon.com/showtime112

[@saqibrizwan9043]

@@showtime112 Grateful 🙏 I will check it and be in touch.