A History of Hyper Hollow Points

I hope I didn't collect this mountain of meme ammo for nothing!
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‪@BuffRANGE‬
‪@tnoutdoors9‬
‪@ShootingTheBull410‬
‪@PrimaryAndSecondary‬
‪@PaulHarrell‬

[@commandZee]

Clicked on this video faster than a Remington green and white box-124 grain jacketed hollow point is stopped by the third layer of a high-tech fleece bullet stop.

[@SailfishSoundSystem]

RIP Paul.

[@trashcompactorYT]

Immediately who I thought of when I saw "hyper" ammo. RIP

[@chaz720]

new and improved.

[@philosophyofcarry]

This is why I always jungle stack my EDC magazine - it goes ball, hp, frangible, screwdriver, bonded hp, copper monolithic, a 20 year old original black talon, then this stack is repeated, and on top I load two sky blue glaser safety slugs that I have both christened with holy water, as well as cast a simple pagan blood sacrifice spell on.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Make sure you alternate between blue and silver safety slugs, because you don't know how many layers your target will be wearing.

[@philosophyofcarry]

@@Hoplopfheil I forgot about the denim layers, classic blunder

[@toddinfl]

There are actually people who do this

[@shootermarcuhz]

Don’t forget snake shot for even more variety

[@tabcreedence6553]

That's a decent stack, I'm going to layer in some "exploder" rounds I bought in 1970 because of the suspected impending civil war from Nixon taking us off the gold standard

[@mattwhite7421]

Paul's video on the Miami shootout is GOATed gun tube content.

[@geareas]

That was my first Paul video...

[@crktritual]

Heck yeah 👍🏻

[@j.lokibass1430]

💯

[@deletdis6173]

RIP to the GOAT. Legends never die.

[@MandolinMagi]

@@geareas Same. I think he was a little too dismissive of the agent's marksmanship (you aim a pistol while a guy with a rifle is shooting at you), but otherwise very good

[@brew4557]

Wait a minute, this is just an excuse to talk about .40s&w

[@Hoplopfheil]

Isn't everything

[@scherry9198]

@@Hoplopfheil Ha!

[@nathanielyoungman4454]

Talk about how short and weak it is 😂

[@tamagotchi64]

@@nathanielyoungman4454I never understood the short and weak thing. It’s literally longer and more powerful than 9mm

[@robertfreeman8157]

@@tamagotchi64 but it's not the golden child 10mm.

[@RandyTheB_]

I was half expecting hop to recreate the meat target.

[@Hoplopfheil]

I can't afford to waste food like that.

[@colostomybag9367]

​@@HoplopfheilLMAO I know that's not even a joke with the amount of ramen y'all eat.

[@scrtasnmn9826]

@@Hoplopfheil Still, a nice callback to granddaddy PH.

[@xx-gp4me]

@@Hoplopfheil EAT THE TARGET!

[@ASqdrnDA]

​@@Hoplopfheil Lead's always a sweetener, never a bitterer!

[@MRopinion3]

Love the “you be the judge” comment at the end. I know Paul would appreciate it too. Thank you.

[@michaels5676]

Was going to say the same, great minds think alike I guess.

[@Isometrix116]

I'm a grown man and that little comment made me shed a tear. I'm not the least bit embarrassed about it either. Paul wasn't just a great man, he was _the_ great man of guntube.

[@BlueLoneWolf54]

Hop, when we die together on that .40S&W hill, I just want you to know... We're stupid.

[@Hoplopfheil]

In my experience, people who don't like .40 S&W aren't as big as us.

[@philosophyofcarry]

40 is just so much more angry than 9 and 45, how can you not be smitten

[@newerest1]

​@@philosophyofcarryow my hand hurts

[@frankholub4673]

​@@Hoplopfheil You're a big guy

[@brandonschwertley2723]

You're all dumb because .357 sig is the real king of that hill.....

[@Windowlick_]

Talking about the tiny difference between an expensive thing and a cheap thing while showing footage of Roof shooting his 5th Staccato is just cruel

[@Hoplopfheil]

[@christopher7398]

Favorite memory of mine is Paul Harrell talking about trying to defend yourself in court after using “R.I.P” rounds complete with tombstone packaging in a self defense scenario.

[@sumrandomgaymer9945]

Hornady custom has your back with the most fudd looking box art I've seen.

[@emoney6191]

People should not worry about this. Its a non issue.

[@MatterMadeMoot]

@emoney6191 Retard.

[@Revilerify]

What’s tombstone packaging?

[@UncleButterworth]

@@Revilerify The DVD cover for the 1993 movie "Tombstone" which stars Val Kilmer, Kurt Russel, and Sam Elliot. It's a decent movie.

[@ACWells-vi3re]

One of the biggest things that I will miss about Paul Harrell is shitting all over Federal ammo.

[@jasongibson8114]

Federal is my favorite

[@Genesis23OPB]

in Pauls Miami shootout video he says that its among other things an example of bad marksmanship.

[@brucecook502]

Paul Harrel's meat Target test video shooting through the shoulder to the heart is exactly what informed my specific choice in ammunition. Before watching that video, I was already carrying Federal HST 124gr. standard pressure but I learned something really important, and that was it at least showed that the 124gr HST just doesn't cut it if you do have to make a defensive shot through the arm first, and since I carry a micro compact (Springfield Hellcat), velocity is lower and penetration is lower so I switched to the +P which I seen in many other tests does offer a couple more inches of penetration. Paul's test with the standard pressure 124gr hst's, if I remember correctly, he fired three shots and only one of the three managed to penetrate the heart of his meat Target and the other two stopped at the heart so I figured upping my HST to the +P should take care of that problem. I know I may be overpaying for them but I know they will perform the way they're supposed to perform, and they are so darn consistent. They are the most consistently accurate 9 mm ammunition I have ever shot.

[@fisherthegoat]

@@brucecook502 The box difference in muzzle velocity between the HST and HST+p is only 50 fps which is barely above the difference between one round of the same type and brand of ammunition to another. I highly doubt the difference in power would be noticeable, even in a smaller handgun.

[@brucecook502]

@@fisherthegoat well I've watched countless videos of both the standard pressure 124gr HST and +p 124gr HST out of Micro Compacts such as the Hellcat that I carry, and you will find that the average velocity with the standard pressure HST is a tad bit under 1000 fps, but the +p is around 1120fps. Weirdly enough I only seen this velocity difference when these two rounds are compared out of micro compacts whereas Compact and full size handguns you only see around 50 FPS difference, and also like I mentioned there is between a 1 and 2 in average difference of penetration between the two and the Paul Harrell shoulder meet Target test revealed that even just 2 inches will make all the difference. Trust me I have definitely done my homework on this one LOL

[@wyattedgecomb6297]

Rest in peace Paul

[@edenironworks2]

Rest in Paul

[@CGR89]

“Most modern high quality hollowpoints are still essentially based” couldn’t agree more

[@_Art.Vandelay]

That was a slick transition for it being the government’s fault straight into a government surplus ad 👀

[@ja0298]

My favourite customers were the ones who would argue that hollow points weren’t worth it. Usually, their sources were that the military doesn’t use hollow points, their buddy/family who is in LE says not to use them or else a prosecutor will throw the book at them (that one really made me laugh), or that it is a marketing gimmick so they could spend more money. My other favourite customers were the ones who bought into the liberty/RIP/G9 or other overhyped or "armour piercing hollowpoint" Sometimes, I miss working behind a counter. The fudd-lore was hilarious.

[@RandyTheB_]

did you ever explain the truth or did you do the smart thing and smile and nod.

[@ja0298]

@@RandyTheB_ That depends on how my day went and who it was honestly. I worked at the shop part-time when I decided to go back to school, so sometimes I was mentally checked out and didn't want to deal with them. other times I tried to explain why hollow points are worth it, especially if I could tell they were a new gun owner and had been given misinformation.

[@joecentral-o9984]

For handguns, even cheap HP are probably better than slinging one pieces. 223 and I'll argue that FMJ isn't the goat if you keep the feepies up.

[@ja0298]

@@joecentral-o9984 yeah, cheaper hollow points are preferential over FMJs, some customers though would argue against that point which was crazy. Never heard a fmj called a one piece, and I’ve worked at gun stores for almost 7 years, ha. I’m confused by the rest of your comment though. What does 223 have to do with pistol caliber hollow points, and what are feepies?

[@CrashRacknShoot]

​​​@@ja0298I think the last bit was him saying how lighter bullets, like those from .223/5.56, are velocity dependent. Feepies=fps. But could be wrong.

[@IndustrialSociety1995]

My boy *TNOUTDOORS9* got featured on Hops channel?! What a great day.

[@CrashRacknShoot]

Why wouldn't he be? He did absolutely fantastic ammo tests in the earlier days of youtube. I wish he stayed up on it more. Thankfully there's guys like Mason Leather and Tools&Targets to take up the mantle.

[@IndustrialSociety1995]

@@CrashRacknShoot sadly tools and target don’t like to be called out for his Olight shilling and will delete your comments. 😭 No thanks. Tommy at TNOUTDOORS9 (being a Tennessean) is my guy. I literally started off with TN & Paul Harrell ❤️

[@hateferlife]

Priceless content from TNO9. Many hours of my life *well wasted...*

[@MrCh1cken]

@@CrashRacknShoot He's doing videos again.

[@MikeRehfuss]

Nice tip of the hat to Paul in your closer telling us to be the judge.

[@abrahamvargas3858]

Paul also used the term hyper ammo.

[@ToxicAmerican]

It's amazing that the entirety of modern gunfighting and equipment is based around one shootout in 1986 in which cops took on a rifle with pistols.

[@andyrihn1]

I remember reading that one of the agents in the 1986 shootout even said that if every agent there just had 9mm pistols instead of revolvers it would have turned out better. They got so preoccupied with the fact a single round of 9mm didn't stop the fight they didn't ask why it was that was the only (near) fatal shot on the perps

[@nickolasthefrog]

top comment

[@PolymerLad]

I carry Silvertips because they were the cheapest hollow points on the shelf at Cabela's. 😎

[@WN_Byers]

They did well in Paul's testing. The Man

[@longshot7601]

The cheaper price also means that you can do more training with that ammo.

[@SCH292]

@@longshot7601 Yeah. Bang for your buck. Also you're not afraid to shoot them in large numbers and test them through the guns you got too. Another thing we all know about "ammo setback". It's going to happen regardless if those hollow points are Hyper brand or Walmart brand. From my experience cheap HP like 9mm Remington 115 grain JHP will "setback" after a few cycles but these are so cheap I can just buy more later.

[@Bubben246]

@@SCH292 Another trick to avoid the negative effects of setback (I believe this was gleaned from another of Paul's videos) is to only chamber each individual round once, and when you unload the round, set it aside for range day. Wasteful? Perhaps, but it does what it intends to do.

[@nickolasthefrog]

Setback happens with factory loads but doesn’t matter.

[@blakeb.8525]

Clint Smith loves to pull the ‘the Miami shootout was ended with a revolver’ card any time he can.

[@boostimalaka1]

From the report by the Medical Examiner. Eyewitnesses said Platt slowly exited the vehicle and was staggering over to the FBI agent and clearly missed him. He staggered back to the vehicle. The ME said that at that point his vision was blurred and he was about to expire as the first shot fired was the fatal shot. It was the 115 grain Winchester Silvertip bullet that was the cause of death.

[@andyrihn1]

@@boostimalaka1 I think OP is referring to the agent that unloaded his revolver at point blank range into the driver side window of the car they were attempting to hijack and escape with. Personally I don't think that really counts in favor of revolvers. I think the shootout overall demonstrated the inadequacy of revolvers in combative shooting environments and the massive superiority of rifles. Even one of the agents there firmly believed that if every agent brought 9s instead of revolvers (only 2 of the original 8 did and one of them was blind for the entire fight) the fight would have turned out different

[@boostimalaka1]

@@andyrihn1 This topic was discussed in an In Service Training course in the PD. The fact that the FBI had the resources available. The other agents were equipped with M-16 rifles. The FBI never notified local law enforcement which was the Miami-Dade Police Department. At that time, the S.W.A.T. Team was very well trained because of the Drug war in Southern Florida during the 80’s. If a better plan was executed by the FBI. It would have a better result.

[@Toactwithoutthinking]

I love revolvers but that seems more like a "Revolvers make amazing backup guns" arguement.

[@mrtlsimon]

I agree with Hop. I've been saying the wrong "lessons" were learned about ammunition from the Miami Shootout for years. A more powerful handgun round didn't stop the fight. A cop with a 38 snub nose revolver shot the bad guy in the chest. Hitting the target and shot placement stopped the fight. The rest was blame shifting and reasons/excuses to purchase new equipment. Same with the North Hollywood Bank robbery. The police had shotguns and handguns. Their tactics and marksmanship were lacking. The North Hollywood shootout gave law enforcement across the country a reason/excuse to issue semiautomatic carbines. It took hundreds of rounds fired by dozens of law enforcement officers to stop two people. That's a lot of missed shots that are excused because they were "outgunned".

[@classifiedad1]

It should be noted that in the case of North Hollywood, the robbers were wearing homemade body armor which was resistant to handgun bullets and shotgun pellets with trauma plates able to stop 5.56mm, and the cops had to resort to commandeering AR-15s from a local gun store. One of the suspects survived a double tap from an LAPD SWAT AR-15 because of the steel armor embedded in the Kevlar vest used by one of the suspects, which was followed up with going low and shooting the unarmored legs from under the car. That, and getting shot at with assault rifles does have a negative effect on one’s accuracy, especially since the ranges are fairly far for handgun distances, between 17-107 meters. Still, hits were scored on the suspects which struck the armor and disabled their HK 91 battle rifle.

[@mrtlsimon]

@@classifiedad1 With over 300 officers responding to the robbery their tactics and marksmanship should have won the day without SWAT. Having shotguns plus the long arms the police took from the gun shop didn't help. Most cops are challenged to pass their department's range qualifications. These two police shootings got police departments firearms upgrades. With AR15s and semiautomatic pistols they still complain about being "out gunned". They aren't outgunned they don't train on their own they don't take Tactical training seriously. Their skill and confidence is low.

[@classifiedad1]

@@mrtlsimon I am referring specifically to North Hollywood. As mentioned, it doesn’t exactly matter how good of a shot you are if you have a Beretta pistol or buckshot and armor that doesn’t protect against assault rifles, and the opposition has assault rifles and armor that protects against 9mm and buckshot, and at times are forced to engage at distances well beyond the effective range of their own weapons. Nonetheless, the LAPD did as well they could have, preventing a high loss of civilian life. The LAPD of the 1990’s is rightly maligned for many institutional and operational failures, but the North Hollywood shootout and their reaction to engaging an opponent with superior equipment and firepower is commendable. And yes, the robbers had assault rifles. The AK and Dissipator were semi-auto rifles illegally converted into select fire weapons. As for Miami, the main issue was much more closely tied to operational procedures and preparedness as you stated, which I agree with. The FBI made its name in hunting down heavily-armed motor bandits like Bonnie and Clyde, and learned in blood the value of powerful automatic weapons such as BARs. They knew the suspects they were pursuing were armed with semi-automatic rifles and had already killed civilians with them during their robberies. In short, they were armed and dangerous. Some of the agents taking part in the manhunt were well aware of this danger, and had MP5 submachine guns and M16 assault rifles. However, these agents did not reach the incident in time to participate. It should be noted that alongside the S&W 1075s and later Glock 22s, FBI special agents were also issued MP5 submachine guns.

[@theflyingfish66]

"I've been saying the wrong "lessons" were learned about ammunition from the Miami Shootout for years. A more powerful handgun round didn't stop the fight." I'm surprised we haven't seen the same "small round" revolution in handguns that we did in rifles with the AR-15 in the '60's and '70's, it's been clear for decades now that "stopping power" is *almost* a myth and what wins fights is a larger number of rounds, fired faster, and fired more accurately. Crazy that it's taken so long for stuff like 5.7mm to gain popularity.

[@Isometrix116]

To be honest, there is definitely a point of it being a case of outgunned. If you train equally with a rifle and a pistol, you will be much more accurate with a rifle. In a law enforcement context, that is almost the most important part. Sure, it took them hundreds of rounds with pistols, but with the stupidly improved accuracy from using a rifle, would that have been cut down at least somewhat? Well, contemporary evidence tells us that police with rifles tend to shoot far fewer rounds in a shootout, so I would say almost certainly.

[@Sh0ckInAwe]

Looks like I need to watch Way of the Gun and Manhunter now.

[@jnm147]

Be prepared to unintentionally laugh your ass off during scenes in Manhunter when you realize Southpark lampooned it 20 years ago.

[@basedWisco715]

Way of the Gun is killer. Highly recommend it

[@BloopTube]

And a rewatch of Heat, just to be sure

[@Sh0ckInAwe]

@@BloopTube it has been a minute since I’ve seen that.

[@taylorham1634]

@@BloopTubeHEAT is a such a classic.

[@JohnDaviesisahumanbrowneye]

Way of The Gun is such an underrated movie.

[@rogerwood5228]

If I had my druthers, it would be more well known.

[@tfwwhennofitlitgf3300]

because the middle 50% is a snoozefest

[@basedWisco715]

@@tfwwhennofitlitgf3300only if you’re a dopamine addict. Pacing is what’s missing from new movies, and why they suck

[@bufordhighwater9872]

"Shut that c***'s mouth or I'll come over there and f***start her head." is one of my all-time favorite "What does that even mean?" quotes.

[@Paladin1873]

Hop did a great job of summarizing a very complex topic. His mention of the firepower advantage of almost any long gun over a handgun may help explain why "The Rifleman" was my favorite TV western when I was a kid.

[@BuffRANGE]

Hop over here dropping the knowledge bomb :D

[@duck_iri]

no socko segment

[@martincolvill5453]

😢

[@joecentral-o9984]

I am unaware of any feline based handgun ammo. Aside maybe 22 family

[@ianscott9396]

You beat me to it

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

shootingthebull410 is a criminally underrated channel.

[@Tom-cp6yj]

Was...

[@narutobroken]

Dude stopped uploading like 6 years ago

[@Zach_Hazard]

I can confirm that is, indeed, how "Ogive" is pronounced.

[@1718bb]

Agree with you, and Paul Harrel, on all of this. But the reason I still buy Hornady or other expensive ammo for defensive use is fear that the Walmart hollow points are more likely to have a failure at just the wrong time. It's all about quality and reliability for me, even if I'm just foolishly paranoid and the probabilities are tiny.

[@lavenderpants8695]

Yes probabilities are tiny, but choosing to carry a gun in the first place is preparing for an event that has a very, very, small probability of happening. So I figure at that point just go all the way with worst-case prepping!

[@lavenderpants8695]

Yes probabilities are tiny, but choosing to carry a gun in the first place is preparing for an event that has a very, very, small probability of happening. So I figure at that point just go all the way with worst-case prepping!

[@rickh9396]

Agreed. The last thing I'm willing to "cheap out" on is my defensive ammo. And I don't skimp on it and treat it as too "precious" to practice with, as Paul Harrell once put it.

[@randomidiot8142]

You buy hornady that's not crimped and chronically suffers setback issues because it's higher quality?

[@1718bb]

@@randomidiot8142 Spend some time outside.

[@shootinbruin3614]

This is one of my favorite Hop videos yet. Great insights towards the end. To add to it I think it’s important to note what Dr. Roberts emphasized in every wound ballistics discussion when he was still active in the forums: cultivating your ability to fight and make hits trumps all else.

[@viewatyourownrisk]

Paul mentioned in his video that one of the more competent shooters was effectively taken out of the fight because he lost his glasses and was basically blind. Buy good gear, ammo included, but the unsexy basics and fundamentals are going to wreck a guy easily when ignored.

[@KamikazKid]

yeah, nerdy $2 glasses lanyard could have saved lives.

[@andreahighsides7756]

I’d rather die than wear a glasses lanyard

[@KamikazKid]

@@andreahighsides7756 same lol

[@memph1ston]

Ha, I remember telling people about how cool Tnoutdoors9 was years ago. So good to see him back.

[@martincolvill5453]

I was late to the .40 S&W party. I lived by my .357 magnum mantra ( it's what I carried for 13 years on duty) or God's caliber .45 ACP in retirement. Now I have three times as many .40 S&W handguns as any others. From a mid 90s S&W model 410 Clinton 10 round pistol to my newest acquisition, a Glock 35 MOS. My LEO discount made it a real steal! Did you get it? LEO discount. Real steal. I'll see myself out to Hop's range and see if he can hit a 6'4" 325 pound target now.

[@losi8ightyew]

The g35 is an amazing peice, I used to run one in pistol matches before I moved to a .40 2011. I still carry my g35 in a shoulder holster under my heavy coat in the winter. .40 is amazing for the money!

[@slimpickens8644]

And what about Hertenburger Buscadero Tycondas?

[@17Codiferus]

I don't wanna shoot my Ticoooondas!

[@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28]

😂 I miss that man so much, but legends live forever.

[@taylorham1634]

I can’t believe Hirtenberger is a real ammo manufacturer. Sadly I don’t think they make the Buscadero Ticonda but they should.

[@mysteryman4915]

Rip paul.

[@MrKingArthurhk]

I was always issued 147 gr hollow points when we had Glock 19’s and the same for personally purchased Glock 17’s with an optional Glock 26 as a BUG.

[@texasranger24]

The most important thing is reliability, so buy enough ammo to test fire a few magazines. Maybe your gun doesn't like your ultra hollow hollow-point ammo. The next most important thing is reliability. Ideally a sealed primer and bullet to guarantee function after gallons of sweat or rain.

[@ta2034]

Love the shoutout to Wendigoon. His video on the North Hollywood bank robbery was the first I'd heard of him, and I'm so glad I did. That video was the most informative on the subject out of the dozen that I've seen. I have a ton of hollow-points now, because they were the only ammo in stock at my LGS during the 'vid. The Sig V-Crown ammo was actually pretty cheap too.

[@Mandalore6311]

"Would you be surprised if I told you it was the government's fault?" No, I literally always assume that's the case. For any reason.

[@davitdavid7165]

"why is thing so expensive" because they can get way with it. Ask the medical sector if you dont believe me

[@chrishelms1967]

I remember when my Department transitioned from revolvers to semi autos in 92....... Black Talons were the new hot must have rounds.... And were friggin expensive.

[@prycenewberg3976]

Another thing to add to your point about the (lack of the) importance of one inch of penetration is that very few of the testing channels verify the calibration of their gel. A state police agency (I forget which state) tested Clear Balistics gel blocks according to the FBI calibration (.17 caliber BB fired at ~600 FPS etc...) and found that the CB gel could not pass. It doesn't make the product useless, it just means that the 'objective' measurements will not line up the measurements of the same round (from the same gun etc...) into calibrated gelatin.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Yeah something I always appreciated about STB and TNO9 was that they would do their serious testing with calibrated ordnance grade gel.

[@MEDICIERIC]

You and BF out here divide and conquering all the big ammo questions today.

[@Deerslayer1912]

Can confirm, Winchester rangers and federal HSTs work very well on my goto ballistic testing medium…armadillos

[@imtall31]

RIP Paul Harrel and the meat target

[@AlexLee-dc2vb]

I like to see the honoring of Paul's memory. Rest easy, my friend.

[@deniskozlowski9370]

Another fun fact about Manhunter is that not only does the protagonist use Glaser Safety Slugs he carries them in a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 special. And he still has to empty his piece when he has to use it to achieve a stop.

[@RogueRobot023]

ANOTHER fun fact about "Manhunter" is that it's A MOVIE, NOT REAL LIFE.

[@patrickbowman8841]

“Manhunter” is the original film in the Hannibal Lector series, is the film that “Red Dragon” was a remake of, and is pure 80’s thriller KINO made by the same genius that brought us “Heat” so WATCH IT.

[@_Art.Vandelay]

You carry hyper ammo because you believe the marketing. I carry hyper ammo because my local politicians think traditional hollow points are scary. We are not the same.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

I carry hyper ammo because of the box art. [Bring Me The Horizon starts playing]

[@jimyeats]

Thank you so much for discussing that ballistics gel is not meant to evaluate fluted bullets, and what they do to ballistics gel. In fact, what the bullet does to the ballistics gel was not meant to be evaluated really at all, it was designed to evaluate the bullet itself, helping to show three things: penetration, expansion, and fragmentation. Not saying the fluted bullets are bad, but current ballistics gel isn’t meant to evaluate them.

[@nickolasthefrog]

Yeah. Also the people saying they must work if they were bought by wilson combat are being a bit simple. Sure, the guy likes killing hogs, but he also has a business selling expensive shiny things to rich old men.

[@sakomeow]

Fed HSTs in the Law Enforcement box for life

[@fiveobob]

Well Done Hop. Thank you very much, for your time and effort to share this information. Your research on the subject. is spot on. The reason I happen to think so. I am a retired LEO. Went to work in 1974. I was working during the entire evolution, as to what you speak. You nailed it, Thank you again.

[@BillHimmel]

Love your praise of the .40 cal!❤ Very rare to hear this nowadays! You showed some balls!👍

[@calebdoner]

I would love to see Paul's signature phrases become common place mong guntube channels. Nice piece here, Hop.

[@GunFunZS]

Agree with everything that you said in addition to shooting the bull 410 there's a Canadian guy whose channel brobee223 has some really excellent properly controlled ballistic tests on things that nobody else did. Often followed up with actual autopsy of game he shot with the same ammo. He and shooting the bull both set a high standard for quality.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Brobee is awesome

[@GunFunZS]

@@Hoplopfheil most wholesome gun tuber possible, yet not saccharine. I don't know how he pulls it off.

[@johnpatrickmcp]

I recently just finished a book on the firearms history of the FBI and the talk a lot about the guns and ammo testing they went through post Dade. The 10mm they were using were downloaded to a subsonic load so it was basically .40 s&w before .40 s&w was a thing. In the end the FBI standardized on a 147g 9mm because it was the best balance of penetration vs capacity.

[@Seth9809]

I read the test where they adopted 10mm and it made me so mad that people pretend they adopted full power 10mm.

[@IFRYRCE]

15:35 Man, I love Grand Nationals. What a gorgeous car.

[@joejones1779]

Best car of the 80's. Period.....

[@diversifiedshenanigansinc.1402]

The question of expensive vs. less expensive hollow points entered my mind when I saw S&B 115 grain JHPs for about .40 cents a round. Even though there was no ballistics data I could find on the S&B and I'm sure Speer Gold Dots are better in every way, is there really such a significance performance gap between the two that it would make the cost savings of buying S&B irrelevant? Hop comes in with another great video again. Best lesbian aunt ever ❤️

[@andreahighsides7756]

Quick Google says the S&B don’t expand reliably. I am willing to pay an extra few cents to make sure a hollow point actually works if I ever need it. Additionally the jacket is not bonded so the jacket comes off often and it won’t do as well through light barriers like windshields

[@jaycee30865]

Manhunter kicks such ass. The use of color… Master work. It really is goddamn something else. And Brian Cox… Wow he should have been in an alternate take of Silence.

[@hotramen5952]

if you shoot the lords caliber you can use anything. ball ammo, pure lead, HST's, it all works.

[@christopherkey3488]

I watched so many shootingthebull410 videos, what an OG

[@gadsdenjim8785]

Up until 2020 when prices got whacky you could consistently get the 50rd boxes online for literally the same price (or less sometimes) than the 20rd retail boxes of any given type.

[@salfox1820]

Great video Hop. Love all the little shoutouts to Paul. Hat tip bro.

[@RRTS2556]

No wonder why at Leon Kenedy's birthday Jill bought him ammo

[@frankholub4673]

LEON PLEASE

[@armorers_wrench]

I'm running two CNC machines as I listen to this video. Keep the content coming Hop, we got a lot of machine time to fill and I'm gonna need you to keep up alright bud?

[@PrimaryAndSecondary]

Preach!

[@keng3297]

Is no one going to comment on the guy wearing a Busch Lite shirt going akimbo? Never change King...

[@nurse-dude]

Let’s be honest… it’s always the gov’s fault….

[@-joe-davidson]

I have a few boxes of the Zombie Max ammo for a fun collectable. 🧟🧟🧟‍♂🧟‍♂🧟‍♀🧟‍♀

[@wolfone812]

One thing about Paul Harrel’s videos and approach was that he didn’t believe in hyper ammo as a magic bullet and tested other types to find out if they were just as good or very close. He was a big fan of gold dots from what I remember

[@gameragodzilla]

His general argument is that hyper ammo is usually better than the mainstream stuff, but not enough to justify the extra price (as well as difficulty obtaining) that comes with it. Some stuff does do well in his tests, but even then, it’s a question of whether the price is worth it.

[@UnderBakedOverEngineered]

Box of Truth, it's been years since I've heard that name... To be fair to the fragmenting designs, there are only a handful of ways to cause truly rapid incapacitation and two of those are to hit a large artery or a nerve cluster. When looking at autopsies people naturally saw all the times rounds came close but didn't hit these, the idea was by throwing out a bunch of shrapnel you increased the chances of nicking one of those. It makes sense if you're not looking at it with a statistical eye, very reminicent of the WWII plane up-armoring story. I can forgive that thinking because at least they were working with a real mechanism of action. They were trying to win the lottery by buying more tickets, but at least it's physically plausible. Cavitation peddlers on the other hand...

[@TheDemocraticNationalCommittee]

John Woo movie was a 80’s goodie

[@MrThamightydoosh]

I was surprised to see A Better Tomorrow used. People usually reference Hardboiled. Classic that revolutionized the action movie.

[@iandesoucey9369]

Is that the movie at the 2 min mark?

[@TheDemocraticNationalCommittee]

@@iandesoucey9369 yap, that was the 1st installment of the series. Personally, I think the 2nd one was the best.

[@iandesoucey9369]

@@TheDemocraticNationalCommittee thx homie I was Google image searching for like 20 min

[@liloni444]

the second is the best because he comes out in the trench coat with the uzis lol​@@TheDemocraticNationalCommittee

[@EvanDickersonM81]

I bought a bunch of gold dot g2 in Leo bulk pack back when COVID hit because every agency was switching to 9 and surplusing the 45 and 40. I have enough hollow points to use them as range and training ammo all for what ball ammo was going for In 2020. I will never come down off this high.

[@GunSam]

Hop knows his stuff. Most people do not. Refreshing to see.

[@CeltKnight]

I spent my entire LE career as a total ballistics nerd. Truthfully, I spent my life before that and to this day as a ballistics nerd. Anyway, the best high-zoot, top end JHP put in the wrong place will never be as effective as a low-tech FMJ put in the right place. The "Best" ammo only works "better" when the shooter puts it where it needs to go.

[@hoilst265]

How much ballistics knowledge do you need when you've got a troll with a siege crossbow on call?

[@CeltKnight]

@@hoilst265 - Right? The only ballistic knowledge you need then is to stand BEHIND him when that whole quiver of bolts goes flying. Great Sir TP reference, sir! --- Ook. ;)

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

I carried federal whote box 9BPLE 115 +P+ for awhile. It was cheap (20-25 for 50 pre 2020), the ballistics gel tests were impressive and it had a good reputation with law enforcement as one of the first really effective 9mm duty loads. I switched to gold dot because when I went to re-stock 9BP I couldn't find any in stock but there was a bunch of 50 round boxes of gold dot on the market

[@Hoplopfheil]

James Reeves always repped the 9BPLE for it's price to performance ratio.

[@joshcarter-com]

"If you ever get nostalgia for gun shows, just remember they were actually very stupid." SO TRUE. Absurd prices for absurd things. Sometimes entertaining to browse but I don't think I've actually bought anything from a gun show--which I didn't regret later--in several decades. (Edit: actually I regret EVERY purchase from a gun show.)

[@ronenton4037]

Ive gotten good deals at shows like a No.4 mk1 Lee-enfield for $200 but most shows post-covid have garbage

[@westraa2086]

a hop and brassfacts video back to back both about ammo?? work won’t miss me while i watch both

[@rabbitholereviews]

I'm digging that S&W 659 in the thumbnail. Way too big/heavy for CCW-- but I love mine!

[@SentientMicrowaveFightClub]

my preference are Cor-Bon/Glaser Pow'rBalls, partially because they're the most effective .45ACP hollowpoints I've seen and I want to use a .45ACP PCC for home defense because of it's subsonic characteristics indoors and surpressed, and the Pow'rballs are one of the only rounds which seems to consistently actually function as a hollowpoint at .45ACP speeds (most others don't expand or fragment like they are supposed to.) (going with a stern defense AR9 based example, I'm not gangster enough to protect my speakeasy with a Thompson. would use a stubby glock mag with one of Magpul's drum baseplates to make it have decent capacity.)

[@brandonschwertley2723]

Hyper ammunition always reminded me of specialty ammunition in video games like Fallout and Stalker. You get so little of it, so infrequently that you actively avoid using it even in desperate situations. Because you're worried about running out. Humans have a weird psychology around limited supply, and for good reason. Our ancestors lived and died on getting another scrap of meat, or another drink of water from hyper competitive natural environments. So you get into a crappy fight in these games and you don't use the good ammunition. Then even when you do it doesn't really save you because the advantages are so little to begin with. Which is why I always laugh when people talk about specialty rifle ammunition for whatever scenario. Having a consistent supply of something sufficient is better than fretting over minor advantages because twice nothing is still nothing.

[@angrysheepdog9744]

I picture Paul Harrell in heaven debating the angels on how much sin makes a difference to make a difference

[@collinis1]

Best best is to find a retailer selling 50 round hst or good dot dot boxes (intend for LEO sales) and buy a case and never worry about it again.

[@elijahanderson6736]

yep thats what I did.

[@workingguy6666]

@@elijahanderson6736 I finally did this as well. I'm never going back to defensive carry ammo that isn't sold in boxes of 50 at a reasonable price.

[@toddinfl]

C'mon, Hop... Get it over with and just do the quintessential 9mm versus 45 video

[@TheMediatorOfChaos]

I’d kill to see a modern test between Federal HST +P .45 and 9mm. The gel tests show .45 achieves close to an inch diameter expansion, but not much data on it.

[@ironraccoon3536]

Nah, this is Hop we're talking about. It'd be .40 S&W vs .357 SIG vs .38 Super

[@toddinfl]

@@ironraccoon3536 LMAO

[@hornmonk3zit]

.45 lost miserably to .30 Luger in the very test that got .45 ACP adopted by the US Army in the first place. Turned out FMJ, even a tiny 90gr. one that was barely even breaking the sound barrier, was far more lethal than a bigger bullet that didn't penetrate vitals. They literally had to rig the rest of the tests after beating the cows they couldn't kill with their .45's to death with a hammer.

[@TheMediatorOfChaos]

@@hornmonk3zit .45 ACP FMJ (and for that matter 9mm FMJ) aren’t really what people are talking about in this video, the comment section, or this thread. I’m glad you have an option in the form of .30 Super Carry but myself and most of the industry don’t think it’s terribly impressive. Modern .45 ACP Hollow Points (particularly Federal HST +P in both calibers) would eat the .45 ACP and .30 Luger loads you’re referring to for breakfast, and that’s what people would want to see compared to the 9mm loads featured in this video. For context I carry and use 9mm at work, .45 is just fun.

[@jumpykilllerqx6029]

Pauls Harrell conclusion in the Mami dade shooting is marksmenship, even if a hollow point penetrates 9 to 10 inches in a ballistic analog 3 or 4 more on target would incapacitate the target.

[@JoshuaCalvert80]

Nice bonus of hollow points: its easier to shoot out tires, watched a polenar tactical video on that topic. You could see the missing material from the bullet cavity and the tire wasn't able to somewhat self seal.

[@dutch0770]

Federal HST +P and gold dot are my go to. The SIG holo 124 grains when on sale are pretty good for the price as well

[@SAS413]

Carrying the torch with "you be the judge"

[@sxrry.8206]

Had no idea that the Miami shootout had anything to do with the history hollows, awesome informative content as usual

[@sxrry.8206]

This is a banger

[@andreahighsides7756]

10mm too iirc

[@ShowMeYourHits]

The second I saw this thumbnail I thought, "Hop found Manhunter on Amazon" it feels good to always be right.

[@Hoplopfheil]

If you like the gun and movie nerd stuff I was on an episode of Primary & Secondary to talk to Matt Landfair about our favorite gun movies.

[@geareas]

TICONDAS RULE... no other ammo comes even close...

[@mclt8883]

Hat's off to you mentioning Paul Harrell. I appreciate your educational videos. Excellent job.

[@arsenal_616]

What was the movie at the end? With Ian McShane in a cowboy hat shooting a Desert Eagle. 😂 Looks dope.

[@wtfproductions4262]

"The Hollow Point". Thanks for naming the actor, I was getting nowhere with image search.

[@AdamSchadow]

Putting a plastic cap on those rounds does not just make them feed better but also reduces the aerodynamic drag which would be really cool if you could ever shoot those pistols at a range where it mattered.

[@MrOliverk2]

4:01 Are we just expected to sit here and let Hop keep saying things like this?

[@joshuathompson8474]

I thought all of the S&W 3rd gen 10mm's were considered very reliable.

[@Ammotax]

it made me laugh

[@losi8ightyew]

Yes, because whether or not you like it, he's right lol. I'm a 10mm dude, but when it comes to conceal carry, no caliber touches .40 and .357 sig. Besides, technically I just overpay for .40 when I buy store bought 10mm anyways. Whether most 10mm users admit or not, they are just shooting .40. Only get to brag on 10mm if you reload.

[@commo132]

@@losi8ightyew whether .40 users like to admit it or not, they are just shooting a weaker 10mm. Almost like how that cartridge was developed... Its like saying "whether most 9mm Luger users admit it or not, they are just shooting 380 ACP". Everything matters regarding load. You don't judge 9mm from jello shots, that's stupid. I don't know why people have the double standard against 10mm.

[@losi8ightyew]

@@commo132 Lol, you must have totally missed the part where I said I AM a 10mm guy, 9mm is not watered down to .380 like 10mm is. 10mm is my favorite caliber and I am right. It gets watered down so bad, if you're gonna buy your ammo, just get a .40 and be done with it cause that's all youre overpaying for. .40 users are firing a round that fits in small CCW weapons while still having an edge over the other calibers, 10mm DOES NOT even come in tiny guns!!! You sound like you're just deep throating 10mm without admitting you're making zero sense. LOL. PS we dont need gel test to calculate expansion and energy numbers....40 always wins vs the other CCW calibers. 10mm is NOT a small CCW caliber, for christ sakes even a g20 is a 4 lb gun🤣🤣😂😂

[@hammy.75.4]

That "you be the judge" at the end of the video might just be the best tribute to Paul anyone could give him.

[@moethebartender420]

“You be the judge” - PH

[@stevemanart]

"You can afford to double tap" - my dad explaining why he used cheap ammo in his 9mm sidearm as a Pinkerton.

[@smartfella7914]

Your dad’s agent milton?

[@Terron35]

I'm gonna ignore everything and feel validated that you used Federal HST 124gr +p as an example because that's what I carry

[@whomagoose6897]

One thing I noticed in reports of the FBI's Miami shootout was the use of revolvers where no speedloaders were used. Loading single rounds in a 6-shot revolver is far too slow. A speed strip is slightly faster since you load two rounds at a time. With revolver speed loader all six rounds are loaded in a single movement. I compete in IDPA competitions. Those that don't use speed loaders or moon clips are at a big disavatage. I heard of a research study from a Doctor researched reports of shooting deaths. These are the lessons learned. #1. Any cranial shot or cardiac shot was instantly fatal. #2. The body can take a lot of injuries, but only to a limit based on body mass. #3. Often it's the total number of bullet injuries that stop life. Makes you think fifteen rounds of 9mm Lugar would be more effective than three each .357 magnum shots. It's the cumulative affect from multiple injuries.

[@JulianLares]

Everyone hates 40SW because their favorite youtuber said so. Its not bad by any means. The benefit is a larger bore for minimal recoil increase and barely a decrease in capacity. Handguns do not do fluid dynatics well because they are almost all too slow to do the magic you expect 5.56 to do. So the only damage you do is how big of a hole you create. All your trading between 9mm to 40sw is on average 1mm more expansion per HP, barely a size increase, for barely a recoil increase. The ammo is fine, and does its job well. 10mm guys will hate all day on 40sw to shoot the SAME bullet at higher velocities in exchange for more recoil, except the bullet isn't even bigger. The extra speed almost doesn't matter cause its not a rifle velocity, and all you gain, depending on ammunition, is a smidge more expansion. Cant even vouch for penetration because the hollowpoint by design is not supposed to penetrate past 18 inches of gel. 10mm guys have too much ego.

[@workingguy6666]

I bought my first .40 S&W Glock in 1993. It's been a mistake ever since. The recoil and snappiness is much heightened from 9mm, and over the decades the aggressiveness in the grips and grip textures really wasn't there for that recoil. Finally, finally, there was the modern M&P 2.0 with super aggressive grip texturing - but by the time I went to that I had also already converted the .40 Glock to 9mm as the 9mm ammo became better. The M&P is 9mm, and that's just fine.

[@losi8ightyew]

Which is crazy cause In virtually every KZbin comparison where they test it fairly, it ALWAYS wins, always lol Banana ballistics, Paul harrel's comparison etc. I'm a 10mm dude, but I also love .40 man. Still to this day one of the best CCW calibers there is, it does EXACTLY what it was meant to do, pack more firepower in a 9mm sized weapon, and it does exactly that, does it quite well too..a lot of people(especially guntubers, lookin at you MAC, love ya tho) get caught up in their feeling's like a sissy and feel the need to try to justify their inferior caliber choice by any means necessary, even when it makes no sense...nothing wrong with 9mm nowadays at all, it just still doesn't really hit the strides that .40 does. Especially some of the modern .40 loads are more powerful then some of the 10mm I have, that should say it all..

[@johnlatzke3631]

It’s not that good either 😂

[@losi8ightyew]

@@johnlatzke3631 Technically it is better than 9mm or .45 bro. That's 2 popular calibers that it shits on. Lol.

[@JulianLares]

@@johnlatzke3631 it's not amazing, but it doesn't deserve any of the hate on it. It's literally just any other bullet and does what it needs to in its weight class while retaining good capacity