Acrylic Home Brew Thinners : Tutorial 2.0

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[@thepenultimateninja5797]

Most of the homebrew recipes online contain isopropyl alcohol, but I found this caused some types of acrylic paint to 'clot'. I did a bit of research, reading the safety data sheets for various commercial acrylic thinners, and I haven't seen isopropyl alcohol in any of them. They are usually just water and a surfactant (which is the flow improver) and occasionally a retarder too. I have had good luck using 1 part dishwasher rinse aid (which contains the same sort of surfactant) to about 10 parts water, then a few drops of glycerin. The proportions don't have to be exact. Dishwasher rinse aid is usually blue, but in these proportions it's so dilute that doesn't affect the paint color. It is worth noting that this formula smells (and tastes!) the same as the commercial stuff. The surfactant does have a distinctive smell that could be mistaken for isopropyl alcohol, and I think this is why a lot of people use IPA in their homemade formulas.

[@djvycious]

Exactly, but I'll add that a little alcohol won't be the culprit as long as you add something with a surfactant. I did a very unprofessional and badly planned series of experiments with vallejo primer, which clots with just alcohol and water. Add in a bit of something with surfactant, clotting/curdling disappears. Some suggest all purpose cleaners, jet dry (which I didn't try) and dawn dish soap. Dish soap is fine as long as you use the smallest portion, because it will get sudsy with too much. Having said that, a little extra dish soap in a thinner makes for a great airbrush cleaner exclusively because back-flowing the brush will knock out all kinds of gunk. In the end I recommend this homebrew recipe and spending the extra money on Vallejo flow improver because it is free from all kinds of other additives that might hurt the paint. There are many types of surfactants that work (sodium laurel suilfate in cleaners and dish soap, hexoxyethanol in windex) but they are absolutely NOT cheap or easily accessible in reasonable quantities, and I lack the knowledge to say if they will interact badly with the paint. Same goes for antibacterial and de-liming agents in all purpose cleaners. Also I'm sure companies like Dow et al will be hesitant to sell you a 70 gallon drum of hexoxyethanol!

[@zazen69]

That's interesting. What brands do you use for your mix? Also, what paints have you used your mix with?

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

@@zazen69 I just used the Walmart brand one, but I imagine any of them would be fine. I have tried it with Apple Barrel and Folk Art paints.

[@gregory6488]

Could you give an estimate of how much glycerin you add?

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

@@gregory6488 It was literally just a few drops. I made up about a liter of solution in an old 1 liter soda bottle. I would say I added maybe 1ml of glycerin. I don't think the proportions are all that critical though, I just sort of eyeballed it.

[@charlescastell4638]

What a find THIS is!!!! No more store-bought thinner for me; I'm going to the crafts store this afternoon. Thanks very much, and greetings from the U.S.

[@occamsrayzor]

I've been using this since seeing your original video, and I haven't looked back. It's one of the best pieces of model-making advice I've ever had.

[@marcinyvfhjj5113]

THX a lot mate for this video. I mean it's so simple IPA + water + retarder. Changed my painting with AMMO acrylics forever :) 60ml bottle 2/3 water, 1/3 IPA (pour out a bit after mixing) and 5.5ml of tamiya's acryic retarder = no dry tip, no clogs, smooth as F*** painting that I've never had before, ending in ultra smooth and satin finish using 50/50 mix and 18 PSI. Brilliant!

[@mp-modelplastic]

Very good tip, i tested with my paints and works very good with airbrush and hand brushed, thanks for sharing. Greetings from Portugal.

[@genessismodels]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@gmoney1664]

Brilliant, will give it a go!

[@craigjewkes]

Cheers Bobby for sharing this, I only need some IPA and I'll be ready to make my first batch 👌

[@ste022]

Thanks great video, I've made some of this up and it's great. As for Vallejo their proprietary thinner uses butyl acetate (the cleaner also) as the active ingredient, so it should in theory be possible to get some and make a home brew thinner that's as good as theirs.

[@michaelwhitmore5536]

Nice video bobby, any chance you could bring the air brush cleaner video up to date as well 👍

[@briansrcadventures1316]

A good update to the original recipe! It's Golden Additives flow improver / retarder that I have.

[@rolandzuber2856]

Amazing, thanks a lot, definitely gonna try it. 👍

[@genessismodels]

Best of luck!

[@Craizg35]

I love your channel!! 🇺🇸

[@genessismodels]

Thank you!

[@emal2170]

I've been using tap water no problem, but got a jug of distilled because of KZbin videos. Your view of IPA ratios had me thinking about my resin printer alcohol cleaning station. Everyone saying that you have to use 97% to 99% IPA, but when you've cleaned the resin from parts, you're no longer at 99% anyway. That stuff is hard to find. It makes sense to consider the lack of percentages as water vs trying to find proper 99%.

[@OzScalemodeling]

Thank you for these great money saving tips 👍🇦🇺

[@genessismodels]

My pleasure!

[@RedViking2020]

Awesome. Big thanks buddy. Great channel :-)

[@SteveSmith-kf9on]

Just discovered, fantastic channel mate many thanks 👍🇬🇧👌

[@genessismodels]

Thanks and welcome

[@disasterdogs]

Try adding a few drops of jet dri to break the waters tension which causes the paints to flow better through the gun

[@franktozier3184]

Very enjoyable. I have been use your home brew for a couple of years. It does make it quite easy and cheap. You said you thin primers. How does that go on?

[@genessismodels]

Glad you enjoy it! and primers just work the same

[@user-pe1nt7tc7j]

Does this recipe work with new humbrol acrylics in the dropper bottles? I'm just getting back into model making and have mixed up a batch of thinners, when I thin the humbrol paint it mixes well, then after a short while the paint pigment seems to separate with the light pigments floating on the top, any ideas what causes this

[@charlesfavano7424]

i am having an issue what to do if to thin it does not to be to seen to be spraying corectly? the thinner the paint the lower the pressure? maybe like 10 or 15 should i try?

[@B4MBI72]

Someone buy this man a funnel for Christmas! :-) A bit of IPA spillage is always good for cleaning up your mat.

[@genessismodels]

Yes please!

[@HuntingHeresy]

Do I have to use regular IPA or will it work better if I use a double or triple IPA? Also, east coast or west coast?

[@user-dw1ju6yo7y]

Hi Bob, i heard somewhere that glicerine can be used as well as flow improver, what do you think?

[@genessismodels]

I heard the same put have not used it, will try and test it one day

[@briansrcadventures1316]

Yes, I had seen that as well. the Glycering replacing the flow improver / retarder.

[@alansimpson135]

Im busy watching your vid on homebrew thinners.just a thought..does the flow retarder not detract from the flow improver.im totally new to this airbrushing hobby and welcome all input

[@alansimpson135]

Sorry .meant fluid retarder

[@rubensandoval8528]

Quick question: would this be a mixture to replace Mr color thinner and leveler, for example?

[@RedViking2020]

Mr.Color leveller is basically a thinner with a retarder. This slows down the drying so its levels. Fancy name/ simple science. Mr.Color paint is a lacquer based acrylic which sounds like enamel not acrylic but its a more stronger maybe smoother acrylic finish. The IPA in the homebrew works with that as the water with the standard thinning of plain acrylics like humbrol and Vallejo,Ammo,Mig etc. So you have made a homebrew Levelling Thinner. I wonder what a homebrew enamel thinners would look like? White spirit and . . . ? Happy modelling and money saving. Great channel

[@paulnorris8291]

Normally use tamiya & mr hobby paints with no problems, but today used with humbrol and it clogged my airbrush.

[@RedViking2020]

I guess its the alcohol that makes it work with the lacquer based acrylics ie Tamia/ Mr.Hobby. Didnt know you can use alcohol with acrylics instead of water but then the generic thinners for each brand must be more than water derrrrrr. Without the retarder and improver would this be good as an airbrush cleaner?

[@genessismodels]

yeah I i clean my airbrush with it to keep things cheap

[@dogboy31675]

Hi I am struggling to find the Winsor and Newton products as in Australia, but I can get hold of the Vallejo equivalent. Would that work ?

[@genessismodels]

when I last used vallejo it went white over the model, but that was some years ago, hannants does a good one

[@MrBadger1978]

The Liquitex stuff should work.

[@sherlockhomeboy4031]

I find alot of thinners thin the color lol. So I wanted to know which one preserves the color best

[@stevenmarkowitz3950]

do you know if you can use this thinner if you are hand brushing? Or is this only for air brushing? Thanks

[@genessismodels]

it all depends on the manufacture mate, games workship for example you can just fine with water

[@stevenmarkowitz3950]

@@genessismodels thanks I have Vallejo regular

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

Yes as long as you dilute 2:1 water:IPA & add in 1% increments of a paint retarder such as glycerol (Vegetable glycerin)… or the more power retarder propylene glycol, which allows you to wet blend by hand if you thin the paint sone more… Both methods are suitable for hand painting (you just need to taylor the amount of retarder to add depending on your local temp. & humidity (eg in the U.K. only 1% of Glycerol is needed to add to the home-made thinner)… With this you can achieve a smooth brush free satin finish without any previous paint layers lifting… P.S. this only works well for alcohol (IPA)/water based acrylics like Tamiyas range… For water only acrylics test a small amount in a pallete to make sure it doesn’t effect the paint / binder / solvent equilibrium… in 5-10 min you’ll know as if it’s incompatible the paint will start to split & bunch into its consistent components (N.B. Always test each individual paint in the range first as they are all formulated differently, especially metallics!!)

[@paulthomas9937]

Hey Bobby. So I've just used this method in a 100ml bottle using 70% ipa. I'm not sure if I got my maths right but I went for a 60% water 40% ipa mix. I could only get vallejo flow improver and vallejo retarder which came in small dropper bottles. I put around 5 drops each into my mix and shook it up well. So today I decided to use it but got clogged pretty quick. Now I'm new to airbrushing and it may be my technique but even after unclogging, it'll work fine for a minute or so but then it'll clog up again. I was using vallejo gloss white acrylic 50/50 with the home brew. Psi was around 15 at the start, I went up to 20 which didn't affect it. I dropped a little more flow improver in and thinned the paint more but to no avail. Any advice please?

[@davydbudden1583]

I've always found just using water at 50/50 mix is best for Vallejo, some thinners can turn Vallejo paint in to gunge.

[@dasabaja]

Hi, mate. It's the alcohol. Vallejo does not tolerate alcohol. This recipe is perfect for all acrylics except Vallejo.

[@muyombahenry6105]

i want to make thinner for business,if am to make a 5litre jerrican of thinner what is the ingridients needed,i need the actual quantity of each ingridient,thanks

[@billchron]

Has anyone tried this with Hataka - Red Line paints? thank you

[@jimdaddy1439]

Will this work with AK real colours? Love the channel BTW..🫡

[@scottmurray6329]

Can you use surgical spirits instead of ipa

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

Tamiya Acrylics use 99% IPA & water as the carrier solvent… With surgical spirits problem is cones down to its composition; which can change depending on country or even supplier, but it’s normally an alcohol diluted with water: so it could be ~70% IPA: ~30% H2O from one supplier or ~70% methylated ethanol (methylated spirits): ~30% H20 from another… Note by law (this is worldwide) a supplier must provide the customer with a Safety Data Sheet (SDS) of a hazardous product, it’s a 16 section legal document that’s meant to inform the end user of the potential risks and precautions to take. Go to Section 3 & this will tell you about its formulation and wether it’s suitable for your needs…. Ideally you want to get hold of 99% IPA if you are using Tamiya Acrylics; the reason being that different alcohols will evaporate at different rates leading to issues like: tip drying, granular & orange peel effects on your model…

[@leonchappell8850]

Can I use white spirits instead of IPA ?

[@genessismodels]

Sorry I would not recomend white spirits mate

[@leonchappell8850]

@@genessismodels no worries , can white sprits be used to clean out the airbrush?

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

@@leonchappell8850 only for enamel paints… For acrylics clean with the homemade thinner; followed by water and then 99% IPA to finish to get rid of stubborn/dried paint and remove the water to prevent and rusting… Be cautious if you use Acetone or MEK if your seals are made of natural rubbber, they will eventually eat them over time

[@splodge561]

Can I suggest funnels

[@Craizg35]

HAHAHA! 😆😂🤣

[@genessismodels]

lol Ye wish I had one when making this video lol

[@JohnWick-dn6ty]

No Glycerin?

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

Haha a fellow chemist I guess, yes it’s one of the main ingredients of flow improver and retarder… You can also substitute the Glycerin for the “more powerful” propylene glycol if you live in a really hot and humid area or when you want to wet blend by hand by adding it to paint that’s been thinned further…

[@animag8213]

Wow, great advice, I've been using 99.9 IPA straight out of the bottle to thin my Tamiya acrylics, but it seems a paint is little "dry", it dries almost instantly on the model and it's difficult to control it, especially a thickness of the paint. I don't have a flow improver yet, but do you think if I thin an IPA to let's say 50% with water, will it extend drying time and make nice, smooth layer? PS Well, I watched your video til the end and buying a flow improver is kind of necessity to achieve "self-leveling" effect. That's why I thought - using 99.9 IPA is pretty hardcore :)

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

It maybe be a late reply but I’ll add my two cents to the question, the ingredients in paint retarder (to stop tip drying + giving a smooth self levelling finish almost satin finish), are either glycerol or the more powerful propylene glycol… In the U.K. climate I use a 2:1, distilled water: 99% IPA + 1% glycerin (vegetable glycol) mix… With Tamiya Acyrlics (I use this to thin my paints and add directly to the bottle up to the little glass indent rim on the inside) If you live in a hotter and dryer climate and still suffer from tip drying and a granular finish keep adding another 1% glyerin at a time up to a max of 10%…. If you’re in a desert, swap the gkyerin to propylene glycol; again at 1% increment up to a max of 5% as it’s a much more powerful acrylic paint retarder… Once you have the ratio for your temperature and humidity, you’ll be able to find you can now hand paint with Tamiya acrylics, free from brush strokes or paint lifting…. You can even wet blend if you thin the paint more to achieve smooth and seamless Zenithal highlights.. I personally prefer this style of placing shadows and highlights over “colour modulation” because it represents the natural illumination of sunlight, which can be exaggerated if you plan the light source from an acute angle, representing dusk or dawn…

[@jelly8594]

@@TheSigmaGrindSet very much appreciated! I have glycerine and propylene glycol at hand and I can't decide which one to use 😆 or both?

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

@@jelly8594 This formulation works perfect for alcoholic & water based acrylics like Tamiya’s Acrylic range. It can work for some 100% water based acrylics but not all… The best is to make test swatches on A4 sheets of plactic card and write the formulation above each swatch to find the best ratio for your environment… If using 100% water based acrylics (also works with alcoholic based acrylics) you could try my flow aid & retardant formulations: Flow Aid - 6:1, Distilled Water: Glycerin; Paint Retardant - 1:1 Propylene Glycol: Glycerin + 10% Distilled Water. Flow Aid I would add 1% at a time and the Paint Retardant a drop at a time (it’s powerful stuff, and adding to much can cause the paint to never dry) If using 100% water acrylics and you thin with water you might find the pigment and binder spilts if too much water is added; you can make your own ”Games Workshop Lahmium Medium” this stops the paint splitting + retains its opacity & can be used to thin instead of water : I use, 1:1, Windsor & Newton Matt Medium: Distilled Water. I hope this helps, just test small amounts of each paint and record the results, just be careful there are certain colours in paint ranges which behave outside the general/expected trend, metallics are one. So always test a small amount of each before adding to a whole pot… P.S. If you need homemade formulations that are exact replicas of Tamiya and Mr Hobby Plastic Cements; I can list the solvents and ratios + give links to the actual Safety Data Sheets (SDS)’s….

[@jelly8594]

@@TheSigmaGrindSet thank you very much for taking the time to write all this down! If you can shar the link in a way so that KZbin doesn't delete you comment, I would definitely be interested. Yesterday I tried: 70g water, 40g isoprop 99%, 3g Propylene glycol, 10g Amsterdam gloss medium. It sprayed very good, but it left a sticky touch because of the propylene glycol. I even used a blow drier and a day later it is still kind of meh and attracts dust. Today I used just titanium white artists grade paint, 70% Iso mixed with medium and it dried really good and nicely matte.

[@TheSigmaGrindSet]

@@jelly8594 No worries I’m just giving back to the community, a bit like the butterfly effect… when i first started scale modelling helpful people would always go out of their way to answer any basic question I had about the hobby, even to this day I’m always learning new techniques from people on YT, FB or forums… Yes be very stingy with the amount of Propylene Glycol you add as it’s a very powerful paint retardant as you found… It’s why I personally use Vegetable Glycol (Glycerin), in the U.K., climate as it’s more forgiving due to it being a less powerful acrylic paint retardant… & always make a colour swatch or note book of the ratios used as it will save you time and money in the long run… BTW any company selling “hazardous chemicals”, if it has a red diamond with a hazard symbol, then by law they have to provide customers with the SDS and under section 3 of 16 lists the exact chemical formulation for that product

[@kevincleaver1999]

Jeers again Bob,

[@vogonpoet5860]

as usual a bostin video, on a lighter note i said to Mrs POET, its a good job we didnt do shots every time"NICE" Was said, or we would have been wasted !

[@dasabaja]

Just keep it away from Vallejo. Alcohol and Vallejo don't go together. Other than that - this is a go to thinner for anything acrylic. Pretty much I'm on this recipe from the first video years ago.

[@iancarlin4694]

I have been using this with Vallejo acrylic paints for a decade now in airbrush with no issues. I have even used it to thin airfix and Revell starter set paints and airbrushed.

[@billchron]

@@iancarlin4694 At what ratio, thinners to paint you are thinning it so it doesn't clog your airbrush? Do you add any extra flow improver or retarder? how many psi? Thanx

[@iancarlin4694]

Hi. I don’t change the ratios. About 50/50 for model air and a bit more thinner for model Color. Airbrush with iwata neo .35 or H&S Infiniti CRPlus with .2 or .4. Pressure as low as 8 for fine work or increased for larger areas.

[@billchron]

@@iancarlin4694 cheers

[@themartinfamily01]

Someone check my math for me. If I mix 70% IPA 1 to 1 with water I would have 35% IPA, close enough to the 33% correct?

[@MatthewSeymour1986]

A 1 to 1 mix would be a 50% IPA(70%) / 50% Water mix. To find your final percentage of IPA(100%) multiply the percentage of IPA by it's strength. In this case 50% * 70% which if you think about 100% = 1 is the same as 0.5 * 0.7 = 0.35 meaning your total amount of IPA(100%) in your mix is 35%. Which I would say is more than close enough to 33.3%. A perfect mix would be 47% (IPA70%) / 53% Water. As for flow improver he adds 4ml to 200ml so it's roughly 2% of the total volume mixed water and IPA. As for retarder he adds 3ml to 200ml so it's roughly 1.5% of total volume of mixed water and IPA. So if you are aiming for 100ml of perfect mix, you would want 47ml IPA(70%), 53ml Water, 2ml Flow Improver, 1.5ml Retarder. You would actually then end up with 103.5ml of mix. For an exact amount of 100ml you need 45.42ml of IPA(70%), 51.21ml Water, 1.93ml Flow improver, 1.44ml Retarder. Due to the space available in most 100ml/200ml pots for a few extra ml doing it to exactly 100ml seems a bit crazy though. Simple Google Sheet to help. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14ErWvpbrvPLIS_7sHRpUU-1ydgksJB2mk8KHT6yWNB0/edit?usp=sharing