Leaving Bill Gothard’s Cult-Like Teachings for the True Gospel | Guest: Jinger Duggar Vuolo | Ep 745

Today we’re joined by Jinger Duggar Vuolo, author of "Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear," and formerly of the "19 Kids and Counting" franchise. In her new book, Jinger shares her theological journey from following a fundamentalist leader to finding freedom in Christ. We discuss her upbringing under the teachings of Bill Gothard, who taught strict rules on modesty and behavior, and how these teachings were rooted in fear, superstition, and control and led Jinger to believe she needed to earn favor with God. We discuss her childhood growing up on TV (despite never watching TV), struggling with an eating disorder, and wrestling with the idea of attending a church outside her doctrine growing up. We discuss how Jinger met her husband, Jeremy, and how his theology helped shape hers. Jinger explains the difference between “deconstruction” and “disentangling” faith and why disentangling can lead to true restoration under biblical truth.
#christianity #theology #apologetics
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Timecodes:
(00:00) Intro
(01:11) Interview with Jinger begins / "Becoming Free Indeed"
(01:56) Bill Gothard's teaching
(08:55) Growing up on TV
(15:08) Struggling with fear
(19:42) Struggling with an eating disorder
(22:04) Parental authority & gaining favor with God
(27:45) Letting go of old theology
(40:45) Deconstruction vs. disentanglement
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Relevant Episodes:
Ep 176 | Jeremy Vuolo
• Jeremy Vuolo: What's M...
Ep 730 | When God Calls You to Tell Jokes | Guest: Joel Berry
• When God Calls You to ...
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Leaving Bill Gothard’s Cult-Like Teachings for the True Gospel | Guest: Jinger Duggar Vuolo | Ep 745

[@KManwarren]

The best part about this interview is that she answers questions thoroughly without dragging people's names through the mud. She still honors her parents for being loving and God-fearing and God honoring and I think we could all learn something from that.

[@kathymyers7279]

And God honored her parents .

[@stevesmith1493]

Yes. We can learn they were wrong.

[@KManwarren]

@@stevesmith1493 we already knew that. Her graciousness is a great example of God's free, undeserved grace toward us, because we are wrong, too....born into sin. Wrong from the beginning and doing wrong knowingly and unknowingly until we die, friend. God doesn't look at us and throw us away. You should take those same pointing fingers and lift them to God in gratitude for His mercy toward you, then put them together with the other 8 fingers and pray for them.

[@francinesanchez5402]

I think we can all find ways, daily, that God blesses us. But the teachings really tore apart their family. I feel for them. Their oldest son is in jail and…… they’ve been through a lot. Monetary blessings are not always the most important.

[@KManwarren]

@@francinesanchez5402 yeah, In my sure that looking back they wouldn't say it was worth it. Definitely need to pray for all of them. There's a ton of healing that they will need that only God can provide. Not to mention the other people still deceived in that teaching.

[@robyngaiotti9894]

I literally left the church, the Lord, whole thing after attending a Bill Gothard Seminar as a teenager. I was already living in an extremely Conservative Christian home, and as I sat in that stadium and heard ALL THOSE RULES, something inside me just snapped. I ended up wandering for 15 years, making a lot of mistakes, before I discovered the true love and grace of God. I am so glad Jinger was able to find a more grace filled Gospel.

[@ebonyscruggs8619]

Glad you made it back to the true Gospel Robyn welcome home!

[@barbourjohn]

Curious. What was the big thing that so triggered you?

[@suburbanrapper]

what the devil intended for evil God Almighty can turn for good.. God works all things together.. Only God can do this... amazing grace..... May we all be healed in Jesus Christ in Jesus' name.. do it Lord for your Glory... Only you Lord for your glory! trample the works of the enemy... again and again and again.

[@kimr9960]

Wow, I am so proud of you Jinger. Jeremey saved your life.

[@robyngaiotti9894]

@@barbourjohn I think it would make more sense if you understood my home of origin. Lovely Christian parents but trapped in a very rigid, fearful, religious spirit. No grace just an angry God who demanded we live under rules and more rules. No drinking, dancing, smoking, movies, bathing suits, etc. And then Bill Gothard trots our MORE rules, more regulations, more restrictions, etc and something inside me snapped.

[@savedbygrace745]

I get her 💯 after leaving Mormonism of 34 yrs for a true biblical relationship with Christ.

[@whitneypay515]

My experience with LDS is way different. I’ve never felt this fear of God. I’m happy you found another church to join.

[@lindseymiller8165]

I am a member of the lds church and I also have never felt the fear of having to strictly adhere to rules and guidelines. I have felt love and grace and an understanding we are human and make mistakes. It makes me sad that people had a fear based experience with mormonism because that is not the core of the teachings. I think it was culturally perpetuated. I'm glad you found a place where you don't feel that because God is love, forgiveness and grace.

[@VWCheryl]

Same! I left the LDS church this year and I feel the same.

[@hayday4304]

Same. I'm also a former Mormon and this was so relatable.

[@gracekelehar4014]

I come from a very legalistic baptist background. The spirit of religion is fully aware in there. My mother told me god would break my legs if I wore high heals. I wore shorts in my house, so I was as asking to get raped. That kind of thing. So, I totally get what’s being said here. I FLED from God, and only came back 3 years ago...and I'm 39. I love Jesus and thr grace he's given us.

[@laurisaborlovan9513]

Her fiancé did the right thing by telling her to go back to the Bible to find peace. That's really wonderful to hear.

[@kaykay1076]

But think about it, every person who is claiming to preach the “truth” is using the Bible to say that’s what he is doing. That’s why Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) is not the truth. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you are you’re own authority to interpret scripture. You need a church and a magisterium to do it so you are not led astray by evil men and “itchy ears” This is the reason you have thousands of Protestant Denominations who all claim to be teaching from the same Bible. Yet you only have one Catholic Church, which dates back to the Apostles. Protestants have only been around for 500 years. Something to think about 💁🏼‍♀️

[@andreawally4488]

​@@kaykay1076 The Holy Spirit is not only our comforter, sent after JESUS' assension to heaven, but John 14:26 , John 16:1, and other passages, show how He would lead us into understanding the truth in GOD'S word as well. There is nothing wrong with others helping us, along the journey of understanding GOD'S word. However, He has promised to show us if we ask. We need to pray to Him, by faith, to open our understanding. Studying GOD'S word is like searching for treasures (Proverbs 2:3-8). It's line upon line (Isaiah 28:10-13) Understanding of principles and GOD's prophecies is to study the harmonious whole in both the old and new testaments. May GOD continue to lead us on that narrow path because there is only one way, not the broad way "anyway goes" to heaven ( Matthew 7:13-14)🙏

[@BitsyBee]

​@@kaykay1076 Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but was afraid I couldn't say it as gently as you did. I am a convert to Catholicism. I love my evangelical friends..and the Duggars...and believe their faith is sincere, but it's painful to watch sheep wandering. I know many ignorant Catholics wander too. Praying for all souls today!

[@BitsyBee]

@@andreawally4488 All true but there are two lungs to divine revelation, scripture and tradition. How did the earliest disciples who witnessed Jesus interpret scripture? What has the Church always taught about about a given principle or doctrine? We can guard ourselves by getting our doctrine and practice from the Church and not a single individual, e.g. Bill Gothard.

[@deebullock9284]

@@kaykay1076 THE CHURCH OF CHRIST became because of JESUS CHRIST, and only JESUS CHRIST!!! Catholics follow rules & law, THE CHURCH OF CHRIST FOLLOWS GOD, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT, & THE BIBLE, which is literally GODS WORD!!!

[@martynlloydjonesfangirl]

What I love about Jinger's story here is that it shows for true believers, nothing can snatch them (us) out of the father's hand. Many in her shoes would throw the whole of Christianity away. But she persisted and sorted out the false from the true.

[@iamlins_]

Yes! I was just thinking that. Im so grateful she didnt walk away completely.

[@skyelynnae]

Yes, this!!

[@donnarobison5722]

God knew Jingers heart!

[@SarahStuckstede]

Lmao, way to judge other people's lived experiences.🙄

[@heathermarie3820]

Yes!

[@jettblac12]

Jinger is very classy. She doesn't speak badly of anyone when she speaks. She carries herself with such grace. God Bless her, Jeremy, and their kids. I feel bad for their family living in the shadow of Josh's shame. I know it's not her doing, but all of them are always questioned about it.

[@tiafenner8427]

I wondered if some of her fear & shame as a child is because of what her brother did to her & other sisters. And not knowing how to handle that as a "Gothard Christian" she probably thought she did something wrong to make her brother act that way toward her. her "punishment" for a sin was her brothers inappropriate acts.

[@valeriegoldstein3483]

A friend paid for my husband and I to attend a Bill Gothard seminar when we were newlyweds in 1983. We walked out about halfway through the first session… the legalism was outrageous; he went so far as to list specific (normal) sexual activities within marriage and condemn them and was very condemning toward parents. Come to find out, he himself was unmarried with no children!! Yes, a real expert! I’m so glad we had the discernment to walk out

[@melissaa152]

I was invited by an older Christian woman to attend one of Gothard’s conferences years ago. I was shocked by his low view of women. Wives were to place their husband before God and obey their husband even if what their husband asked them to do was immoral. Her husband’s will always was primary. Women were promised God’s blessing if they obeyed their husband no matter what. A woman gave her testimony of how she was asked by her husband to participate in doing something she knew to be wrong. But she obeyed her husband and believed that God blessed her for her “obedience” ignoring her own knowledge of right and wrong from the Bible.

[@laurab8547]

My parents went to those seminars too in the 80s at least twice. All of these false teachings about authority and submission really messed up their marriage because my dad was a controlling narcissist and it fed into his need for power, adoration and control. My poor mother couldn’t voice her opinion or disagreement with anything he said or did without creating a huge argument and lots of hard feelings and bitterness between them. I now understand how bad the cultish teachings of Bill Gothard were for our family!

[@shelleyboggs2527]

Gothard had a strong hold on a church I was in. Hated it. Felt like I was back in the cult I grew up in.

[@mafp22w]

Weren’t they called “Basic Youth Conflicts”?

[@triciabarnes268]

Bills never been married 😆 of course he doesn’t want couples to enjoy each other.

[@jannadepue6037]

I grew up in the Gothard ministry, and also a cult in our church, and I worked closely with Bill at his Headquarters from 1988-1994. The Lord has also helped me untangle those deeply embedded beliefs that actually damaged my relationship with Jesus

[@shannonstruik9394]

Oh my, me too, I too went to seminars in the 80's and took me years to untangle the lies and unbiblical teaching.

[@HeatherViking1740]

Legalism is so destructive. I’m so glad you got free!

[@IWantToMature85]

Kristen Rasmussen what do you mean by Legalism? Most people today in the progressive space would consider Allie that.

[@BitsyBee]

​@@IWantToMature85 Right it's good to define this. It's a lie to say Christianity has no rules or disciplines. Historically when Christians formed communities under a set of rules, (e.g. the Rule of Bennedict), people joined voluntarily and agreed to them. The leader was approved and ordained by Church authority and did not take this role upon himself or impose his own ideas or Bible interpretations on others.

[@beckysmith6375]

I first went to a Gothard Basic seminar, correctly called Institute in Basic Life Principles, when I was a rebellious teen. His teaching helped me see my parents in a different light, and harmony was restored to our home. From that point on, my parents, sister and I went to the seminars yearly and looked forward to them with anticipation. God used Bill Gothard's ministry to turn my life around. I've been happily married for 30 years because of principles I learned at that seminar! We didn't follow all the recommendations that are available through the home schooling arm of the ministry. That is a separate organization called ATI, or Advanced Training Institute. We know many families who used those materials and liked them. It's ridiculous to just hear of one person's experience and unique home situation and see the entire ministry through that person's experiences!!!

[@missmayte281]

My husband and I were introduced to Gothard’s Basic Life Principles through another couple at our church. We were young believers, young parents and seeking wisdom! We were excited during the first 1/2 of that seminar and then he brought up “ungodly melodies.” My father and my husband were both Classical Concert pianists and it became THAT clear that he was speaking extra-biblically : RIGHT there! Years later we moved from Miami to Washington state and while we were homeschooling, we met an entire Bill Gothard group…it was devastatingly heartbreaking. The women in the group accused me of wearing harlot colors - Red and Plum (I’m Cuban with dark skin and I was a Winter - none of them were. My modest dresses were deemed trashy because of the color. It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch the kids growing in such an unbiblical, unhealthy environment - it sounds like her parents were healthy but the group we met were all soooo unhealthy. Yet, as long as they obeyed the Gothard principles, they thought they were above reproach. 😣 …the Gothard principles seem to inherently avoid the one-another’s and there is absolutely no room for actual grace. Thank you Allie - big props for this interview. Ginger - Jesus relentlessly pursued you and rescued you. Praise his HOLY NAME!!! ♥️

[@lizziedssg8643]

Excellent comment! I do wish, though, that. Jinger or Ally had pointed out something critically important: the lack of formal education in this cult that keeps kids woefully ignorant of history, science, literature and pretty much everything academic. I would say that these IBLP folks have the equivalent of a middle school education. Just enough to keep them barefoot and pregnant 🤰

[@arbonneladyTN]

Fully agree! Heartbreaking is a good word for the whole thing. I can’t remember the year that I was introduced to those teachings, however as a singer I knew he was way OFF the music score! I never gave him any credit. Jinger is a brave young lady. And considering how her brother sexually abuse the sisters, I am so disappointed in so much regarding the family which was lead so far away from the true word of God. As a mother I can know the pain Jinger’s mother must have.

[@saraz9017]

😣

[@theirmom4723]

Jinger's parents were anything but healthy

[@sheilanixon913]

A group of these people began to attend a church attended by Billy Graham's daughter, She was doing a wonderful work , with lone mothers , (some of them were UNMARRIED MOTHERS !! Oh dear !! A couple from the group got themselves elected to the Eldership, and the wonderful work being done , was closed down at this couple's insistance. Marriages in this church broke down under pressure from this group. Even one of the Pastors and his wife slept in Separate bedrooms for a while. What was happening in this church made national TV, Then, as suddenly as they had arrived the couple and their friends said ""The Lord is leading us to go somewhere else."" I was on holiday with a cousin in St. Louis at the time, and was appalled by all the damage done to a thriving church , by a small group of extremists , who even quote scripture to ""show that they were right ""

[@Thegracemade]

So proud of her! Hope to hear more disentanglement stories rather than deconstruction stories. I also love how intentional she was about honoring her parents while sharing her experience.

[@emilykirkman8468]

Yes 🙌🏼

[@AdrienneJung.M]

Disentanglement over deconstruction....love that!

[@marissaplotnikov7311]

I love this woman!!!! I always knew she was different

[@Thegracemade]

@@AdrienneJung.M Yesss 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@Thegracemade]

@@marissaplotnikov7311 She's awesome!

[@TheOnePremiumSword]

What a wondeful woman! How she lovingly handled the differences in beliefs with her parents is such a master class in grace and kindness.

[@makeupandtheology1821]

I was very impressed with this. I also enjoyed seeing the nuances that while she was spiritualy abused, her parents seemed like they were easy to talk to and helpful. I especially was heartened that her father would encourage her to play ball.

[@samanthadancelover]

Her parents have always taught her the right things about Christianity. She is so fake

[@mktay2067]

Samantha are you involved in IBLP?

[@IWantToMature85]

This makes her seem rebellious. Children are NOT above their parents.

[@Colin-cb8hv]

Lol this is literally a child on a media tour to defame and criticize her parents. This is extremely unhonorable and anti-Christian

[@psthisisme]

This young woman is so gracious when speaking about her parents, as well as Bill Gothard. Her maturity is admirable and love for the Lord shines as a light in a dark place.

[@IWantToMature85]

Did she leave Christianity though? Why is she appearing on talk shows calling her family a "cult?" I can't respect that.

[@juliachildress2943]

@@IWantToMature85 She hasn't called her family a cult. She has called Gothard's IBLP cult-like, which it is. So many young people have been harmed by well-meaning parents following his extra-biblical rules (there's nothing in the Bible requiring women to wear their hair long and curly, adult children being required to live with their parents until they are married, drums being used to summon demons, and that there is an "umbrella of authority" that everyone must remain under or bad things will happen. Bill Gothard taught all of those things and many much more harmful things.) Jim Bob and Michelle raised their children in a fear-based religion and that's a sad shame. Even so, Jinger has professed her love for them and has NOT criticized them directly.

[@IWantToMature85]

@@juliachildress2943 but apostolic also have women wear their hair long with skirts. They aren't a cult.

[@juliachildress2943]

@@IWantToMature85 Just like your employer has a dress code, but your employer isn't a cult. There are several characteristics that many experts agree on that make a group cult-like: 1. A charismatic leader that claims to have knowledge or a system that no one else possesses and who will often not tolerate questions or doubts. 2. Isolation and fear of non-members of the group. 3. The group has a measure of control over personal actions like dress, eating and food habits, marriage decisions, where you can live, and with whom you can associate. 4. The claim that God or a higher authority dictated or endorses the group. 5. You may be punished or shunned if you decide to leave the group. There are more. Bill Gothard's IBLP checks a lot of those boxes in total or in part. I am a devout Christian and yes my denomination has some expectations for behaviors (such as treating each other like Jesus would). However, we are all free to question and discuss doctrine, we make free choices about whether to work, how to dress, with whom to associate, and my church would never try to dictate whether or not you use birth control, homeschool or whether a woman works outside of the home. And people who leave our church or denomination are still loved and friendly with the members. So certainly not all churches are cults (even though some non-believers try to claim that). Bill Gothard's program controls pretty much every aspect of the lives of his followers, especially the women, it's very legalistic and there is little room for grace. I'm glad that Jinger found her way out.

[@MsNZgal]

so her parents did well in that regard, teaching her the Godly concepts that she displays today. I think M and JB tried their best. .

[@Felicityus]

Gods grace right there. I grew up with Bill Gothard teaching and legalism. So glad the Lord showed me His Doctrine of Grace

[@lisaengel5243]

🌷🌷🌷👊🏻📖

[@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool]

Same. The doctrines of grace helped set me free

[@katiesnow396]

Same!!!

[@meam80skids]

Ditto

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

Did they say they were saved by grace but then just not in practice actually acting like it? Was it like the words didn't match reality?

[@juliachildress2943]

I hope that Jim Bob and Michelle can understand what their children, and Jinger in particular, went through trying to live up to that impossible standard and have some empathy for the younger ones that are still at home.

[@beverlyyoung4253]

Yes..indoctrination in the highest form!

[@cindykoerner6719]

It’s very telling they have not come out and offered support to Jinger as she tells her story. Jinger extended so much grace to them and from them…crickets. Do better Jim Bob snd Michele.

[@mktay2067]

Do better? Why should they have to go public for your sake? Jinger seems to be giving grace we could all learn from that.

[@bhazerelli7611]

@@cindykoerner6719 actually they are supportive of her choices, from what she has said. They may not be perfect but at least they love their children even while disagreeing with them.

[@IWantToMature85]

Why would Jinger leave though? Look at how she is dressed. Apostolic Pentecostals dress their own way. She's appearing on national TV and appearing like those of the world. This makes it seems like she wanted to fit in and be like the majority. Why go on GMA? That program favors the left in their political coverage. If she was spreading the word of God, they wouldn't have her on their show. She wasn't doing this when TLC was still paying her.

[@ende8472]

Wow. So encouraging to see how she can condemn the false teaching her parents believed without dishonoring her parents. Such maturity and grace.

[@BitsyBee]

Yes, her parents deserve a lot of credit. They handed on their faith, such as it was, to this beautiful young woman, and were loving to her. They guided her successfully, even through an eating disorder.

[@TrueTruthin66books]

We were introduced to Gothard through our church friends. Many mature Christians were misled by Gothard. We also went to several seminars, and we were part of his home school program. We didn’t strictly adhere to all that was taught, and we left when the program seemed too controlling. Later we learned about really disgusting, abusive, and even more controlling things that were being reported, as taking place, within the organization. The lesson we learned is to be extremely, careful about the teaching that you allow yourself to sit under, and constantly be checking, to make sure, that what you are currently being taught lines up with scripture. Be Bereans!

[@beverlyyoung4253]

Show thy self approved. We must know the word of God to be able to discern the truth! If you know God TRULY CALL A SPADE A SPADE!

[@redemptionisnear8553]

Same!

[@nataliewalters2759]

A mature Christian would have discernment not to believe Bill Gathered. Just because someone’s been a believer for years doesn’t mean they are mature in the faith . If you don’t study the Bible and understand it and be a believer for years makes you a baby Christian . Many believers don’t study . The Bible says to medicate on the word day and night .

[@TrueTruthin66books]

An example that even mature Christians can be misled is that Elizabeth Elliot was one of the speakers, at one of Gothard’s homeschool conferences, that I attended. In our modern times, Elizabeth Elliot was an example of a very, mature believer. I have the utmost respect for Elizabeth Elliot. I doubt that she would have had anything to do with the Gothard organization, had she known what was actually going on behind the scenes. Sometimes a teacher gains respect, as a very sound biblical teacher, and later in their ministry they become swayed off the path. This may be the case with Gothard. No human is infallible, no matter how mature they are, in Christ, because we live in a fallen world. Sanctification is an on going process, throughout our lives. Satan is the father of lies, and he does his most deceptive work, when he deals is partial truths. Our job is follow the mandate given to us by Jesus, and by Paul, which is to be constantly aware that false teachers, will arise among the flock. Again I say, we must be “Bereans”!

[@hlolypop]

I developed a real sympathy for, specifically, the girls of the Duggar family. In about 2009 My sister, sisters friend and I were eating at Panera in Madison WI when they noticed a few of the older Duggar sisters come in and order. They were stopped by so many people, asking to say hi or taking pictures that they left without any food. I felt terrible, no child should face this kind of publicity where they can’t even get lunch. Kids can’t consent, even to fame and what it comes with.

[@saraz9017]

Interesting point. No, children can’t consent to fame. I started taking them off the internet because i felt this same way. Why am I blasting them out there? Interestingly the algorithms respond favorably to children. Especially noticeable on Instagram. I got creeped out.

[@jennprescott2757]

@@saraz9017 it’s bad for family vlogger kids too. While I disagree with his methods and views on Christianity, you should check out some of the Dad Challenge Podcst’s earlier episodes. He has a few on exposing the demographics on these children of family vloggers. It’s disturbing.

[@jennprescott2757]

I think the episode is Bombshell Truths About the Dangers of Family Vlogging.

[@Kwildcat13]

I assumed they were paid .. but I agree

[@staceydavidson8101]

Ll

[@LeslieKnope4Pres]

No freaking way did you get Jinger on here! The crossover of the century! I feel so blessed to hear you both together ☺️

[@cutiepie71181]

Yes! I’m fan-girling out at this crossover! 😝😍

[@paigemama5904]

Well said lol😂

[@gigiis526]

"Freaking" is just another way of saying the curse word.

[@betty4gators]

language?!

[@IWantToMature85]

Isn't Jinger acting liberal? She disowned religion and appeared on GMA.

[@barbgardner5549]

Jinger is so well spoken. You can tell she has put in a lot of time thinking and praying about this process . Great communication skills.

[@AlanaL3]

And that her parents did a great job raising her.

[@katharineshade9550]

@@AlanaL3 But not with Josh, apparently.

[@AlanaL3]

@@katharineshade9550 well, he didn’t follow his parents guidance in life. He has a free choice to walk that life. Unfortunately, with Jinger’s new theological beliefs she believes God preordained that her brother would do those things, and he had no other choice because his path was fixed in stonebefore he was born. I believe he had his own freedom to truly choose to do those things or not, and he chose to do them finding himself where he is today, because of his own sin not because God predetermined his path. Calvinism “reformed theology” is pretty twisted:/

[@therockstar17]

@@AlanaL3 It's not twisted, it's biblical. The bible says God doesn't tempt or do evil but that we will always sin according to our enslaved will and God judges us for that according to our responsibility. In His love and mercy He saved many by grace for His glory. The New Testament says we were dead and enslaved to sin and now we're enslaved to Christ because God saved us. Nowhere does the bible talk about "free will." If God is so holy and we are evil enough to deserve eternal judgement, how could we possibly make "the right choice" to follow God? Ezekiel 36 says God replaces our heart of stone with a heart of flesh and puts His spirit in us to make us follow His commandments. How does a heart of stone choose God? "Free will" isn't required for love, because love comes from God. God is love. We love Him because He first loved us. Jesus said in Matthew 11:27 that He reveals the Father to whom He chooses and in John 6:44 that no one can come to the me unless the Father draws Him. You may disagree but just don't make the mistake of saying it's twisted or a false religion if you don't understand it. Reformed theology resulted from the protestants returning to the Bible. If you want to know more read something like the Westminster confession. The 5 point TULIP everyone talks about was merely a response to Arminius, who came after reformed theology and wanted to pull it back a little towards Roman Catholicism. The issue is monergism vs synergism. I used to think exactly like you. I don't mean this rudely, but I don't think the light bulb ever went off for you, because once it does, the gospel is glorious.

[@therockstar17]

Also, I meant to say read the Canons of Dort.

[@lizziedssg8643]

God bless Jinger for her courage. I think it’s HILARIOUS that JimBob insisted that Jeremy watch Gothard’s videos. 😅 Instead of converting Jeremy to Gothardism, Jinger saw the Light! Way to go, JimBob!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@CraftyMagicDollz]

She went from one cult to another, one male owner to another. She's not free, and she's not courageous - she's a victim of religious abuse and brainwashing, just a different brand now than before.

[@dorothywillms115]

Be careful! Were you a close friend of the Dugger’s. Were you their neighbor?? Did you know them personally?? Are you not aware of how TV stations push their preferred narrative?? If you live in a glass house do NOT throw stones. The TLC network should go off air. All they do is exploit people. Countless people have been hurt by them. Dr. Phil is another example. If you want to attack anyone we’ll try Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland. They ARE false profits. I’m just a bit concerned re your flippancy.

[@ericsmith8597]

My dad loved Bill Gothard. He had me go to his seminar and I walked away from that thinking how legalistic and oppressive it was. My dad was a wonderful Christian man, but when he would go to the seminar, he'd become really bossy for about a week, then go back to being the loving father he always was.

[@saraz9017]

😂 kind of funny

[@camiwilson8358]

This is really interesting

[@Rootude]

Same 😂

[@ggmcsassy]

Lol! Yes! Glad that he would let it go after a while... Another seminar that I have hated was "Love and Respect". :p My husband and I went to one and he was so annoyed by the whole thing! Once we start making more "rules" and emphasizing small parts of scripture as the "whole truth and nothing but" the problems start. ALL scripture is true but taking something out of context and making rules around that is where it breaks down.

[@Carolyncreatesmore]

I’m so glad he forgot about it after a week!

[@sarahlangham635]

She has such class! There are so many things she could say but chooses to be graceful with her words. The world needs more like her.

[@Jess.jess.jess.]

I’m literally mind blown. I grew up LOVING the Duggar shows, I was in grade 4 when I started watching.. I grew up in a wonderful church and the true gospel. But I struggled SO MUCH with the fear of doing things right and wrong because of a “feeling” it never came from my parents or family.. I would spend hours praying because I was worried something bad would happen! That legalism spirit is NASTY..

[@theirmom4723]

Well...coming from someone who spent 56 years in a church of rules...you didn't have the true gospel. You were given the gospel with, however you must do and not do....In Christ is freedom not a bunch of stupid rules made by man so people will know if you tow the line or not.

[@MTknitter22]

Yes and we have to remember the wreckage going on still with her siblings in Arkansas. Now the grandchildren are in danger as well. We sure pray for the rest of the family to be set free!

[@sarahs3988]

As someone who almost got wrapped up in legalism I can understand how even her parents got here. They wanted to do right, but were also led astray. It's so hard.

[@amyward587]

It’s a human flaw and sinful action from the flesh. Assigning spirits to everything is dangerous and doesn’t highlight the powerful truth of the gospel for fallen humans.

[@nosharks1]

Wow, I grew up Mormon and this sounds so much the same! So grateful to be baptized in the true Christ! False preachers are everywhere!!

[@kels4754]

I'm in tears listening to her story. I'm 35 years old, and STILL crippled with fear about making decisions that might anger my parents, or God. Thank you for sharing this.

[@lauras6762]

I’m the same way! Listening to her testimony has been such a blessing.

[@ginahabig]

100% I want to read this book!

[@sprkl5d]

🙏💗🤗

[@gorgo4910]

Oh sweetie. God is our father and he loves us and is patient and long suffering. Please read Psalm 103

[@irishlizzie]

Read Boundaries by Townsend and Mccloud! It's so helpful for someone struggling to separate their decisions and principles from the validation of others.

[@momof1150]

I went to a Basic Youth Conflicts (1986) seminar as a new Christian and actually learned a lot of good things from it like accepting myself for who God made me (a girl), Debt-free living, and that children are a blessing, confessing sin and getting a clean conscience, etc. I think I instinctively retained the good information and rejected any extra biblical guidance. Then as a married mother of four, I went to the Advanced Seminar held in Tennessee to learn how to homeschool our kids using the curriculum. I was over burdened by all I felt that I needed to do to be successful. I tried it out for a couple of years, but eventually quit and used other books. I understand the fear of failing at this felt like I failed God. I was waiting for the next bad thing to happen. I feared my children would be uneducated. With schooling and housework, I was at my wits end and my husband said apart from my failure to make the kids do chores, he didn’t know what else to suggest. But God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and self control. God helped me to know that He loves me and He was just waiting for me to cry out to Him. I confessed that I couldn’t do life like this in my own strength. I was exhausted. And I just couldn’t do all that my husband was asking of me either. Then It was like Jesus was impressing on my mind the thought, I never asked you to carry all these burdens. Give your burdens to me. I gave you children as a blessing and reward for you to love and enjoy. Just as I love and enjoy you my daughter. 🥰 So after that, I was constantly talking to God about everything! God’s perfect love cast out my fear. I’m so thankful that Jesus promised he would never leave me or forsake me. 😅 What a good God we have!

[@PyrPupMom]

This is a wonderful, awesome testimony! Thank you for sharing!❤

[@katiebrower5552]

I have never watched an episode on your channel but I just wanted to say this was an excellent interview. No name calling or shaming just how God has redeemed.

[@daniellecruz2917]

I love how she isnt trashing her parents...she aknowledges they did point her the God

[@rebeccaiwarere7202]

Oh Jinger, I sooo relate. I also was brought up with the Bill Gothard philosophies. I have struggled with intense anxiety about not reading the Bible enough, not praying enough, not loving God enough. Never enough. I am finding freedom now. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@deborahlee3484]

I relate so much and I never really connected my anxiety growing up with Bill Gothard’s teachings but they were incredibly fear-based and harmful!! It all makes sense now…

[@lorieolexson4689]

I am thoroughly impressed with Jinger's interview. She did not bash her parents but still honored them. I am also impressed how she stuck with her faith and grew in her love for Christ and faith . I am so happy that she is on the path of the true Gospel of Christ!

[@allyxjayy]

It takes a rare breed of woman to take a stand against not only religious atrocities, but ideologies and skewed views of Christianity instilled deep in your roots. Covering the situation in prayer. Thank you for your candidness, Jinger. Your story will help set others free from spiritual bondage. 🖤 Religion says “Do”. Relationship with Christ says “Done.” Hold onto Jeremiah 29:11 & Luke 12:3

[@shaerebholz5793]

I love how her mom helped her through her eating issues.

[@SusanSmith-pw1yj]

Her mom fed her garbage growing up, which contributes to disordered eating as an adult.

[@bonniebrown5102]

So glad that Jinger was on your show! Growing up I thought the Duggar's had similar beliefs to other families I saw in my area that wore only skirts and dresses, but didn't realize till later more of the "why" of why they dressed and acted the way they did. I would say the difference between detangling and deconstruction would be the authority of the Bible...Deconstruction is taking standard Christian theology and church teaching for thousands of years and throwing out anything that doesn't fit modern sensibilities or "feel good" to that person. What Jinger is describing is taking everything she was taught about God and the world and comparing it to what the Bible says with the Bible being the ultimate authority. I also admire how highly she still talks about her parents even if she disagrees with the theology they have been taught.

[@kimbluesparkles318]

Watching 19 Kids and Counting changed my life! I appreciated the show so much as a new, young mom who had little example of what it meant to be a Godly mom and wife. The days prior to androids and iPhone, I would put my laptop on the counter in the kitchen and listen while I cooked. It is a healthy balance. I do believe Jim Bob and Michelle love the Lord with all their heart, mind soul and strength.

[@rroadmap]

I believe they do. But they were so worried about losing the money from the show and putting out a bad testimony if Josh's misdeeds came to light, that they covered it up. They had their girls go out and lie to the world. They actually lied to the girls about what had been done to them. Then Jim Bob got on the stand during Josh's trial and lied by omission and commission. That's not following Biblical principles! So they excuse their own sins, but condemn their daughters for wearing pants?!

[@rto8103]

It changed my. life too and challenged my thinking in so many ways..

[@Sunnydreamer1470]

I agree I found the Duggars inspirational as did my children who are now raising their own children. They were very hands on teaching their children to be self sufficient.

[@julieelliott-eickenroth7317]

This young woman has so much wisdom and soundness of mind ... she's bright and thoughtful and articulate and through diligence and having that "good soil" in her heart the Word talks about, has gained a sound mind and wholesome, balanced understanding of her faith. So refreshing to see that she didn't fall prey to bitterness at the failings of teaching and abandon the whole thing, but trusted God and did the hard, healthy work of sorting through the mess to find the truth. Bless her!

[@IWantToMature85]

She seems to have sold out though. She is dressing like the world know. Apostolic Pentecostals don't go out looking to change their upbringing and culture.

[@PintsWithAquinas]

Allie, you're a great interviewer. May the good God continue to bless his beautiful daughter, Jinger!

[@janetmiller1536]

I went to the Gothard seminars in the '70s and didn't get any of this out of it. I got that I need to live a holy life. I think her family took it all to an extreme. As a teenager I took it as guidelines, not a religion. I am so sorry she had to go through all of this. Prayers for healing ❤️‍🩹

[@user-sr9xl2od2m]

Lots of families took it to this extreme and worse. Gothard molested many girls at headquarters as well. It's a cult.

[@janetmiller1536]

@@user-sr9xl2od2m I went in 1974 and was given the admonition to not take it all as gospel as all this family advice came from someone who had never married and had no children. Good advice from a Godly pastor. From her experience and the comments of yours and others, it morphed into a cult.

[@barbcarty9964]

I remember responding to a “ Basic Youth Conflicts” study written by Gothard when I was 16. (I’m 70) It was a challenge to honesty , repentence, and reparations. It was life changinging in a good way. So sorry to hear he wet so far off the rails.💔

[@wishhalkar509]

Barb. Thank you for saying this. I saw him live in the 70’s. I am 60 now and never heard what happened to this ministry after that. This interview made my head twerk. Everything in this world has the capacity to turn sour when there are humans involved. I could pick everything apart including my local church. I choose to watch where God is working. He obviously had work to do for this sweet young lady. I agree, it is too bad that Bill let this ministry go off the rails. 😢 what a good reminder to us to always give and thank God for everything we have. The blessings and the trials in our day.

[@carolhawkins9389]

I too attended Basic Youth Conflicts as a young believer - and it was positive for me (back in early 70s).

[@AlwaysLime]

Yes, we need more expository teaching of The Bible in every church. It’s so so so vital. I myself have come out of some extremes and unbiblical beliefs through discovering the fruitfulness of expository teaching. Disentanglement is very accurate.

[@israelizzyyarrashamiaak766]

I grew up IFB going to Gothard conferences Jack van Impe crusades and Bible Belt revivals. She has had a better time coming out of it all than I did. I left church and turned my back the day I married and moved out. My journey to God was difficult because I was so afraid I didn’t want to know him. People can’t comprehend what is done to a child’s mind in these groups. The fear is such a factor in everything you decide to do or not do. I love my parents and I know they knew it was mistake and they spent the rest of their lives trying to undo the damage. I enjoyed this interview and I hope Jinger does more of these.

[@lisaengel5243]

I love how God delivered you out of that grip, Jinger. Soli Deo Gloria! 💥🌷

[@sacredmommyhood]

This was so good. I loved the analogy of deconstruction vs. disentanglement. I've seen so many families coming out of fundamentalist teachings who go to complete deconstruction rather than trying to disentangle what's been taught. I also appreciate Jinger's love and respect for her parents while also speaking truthfully about these harmful teachings. Wonderful episode!

[@Butterfly-truth]

I went to a church 40 years ago as a new Christian that paid for everyone to go to Bill Gothard seminars. I cherished all the "wisdom" from it as a young person craving guidance to follow God. It had a lot of good principles for character building and forgiveness. Fortunately it wasn't my only source of godly wisdom, and I became more established in the Bible directly over time. I was taught the umbrella of authority teaching in our church as well but because my parents weren't legally fixed to these teachings it didn't completely consume me but did control my young adult views until my 30s. However thank God the Lord and His word did set me free from man-made traditions that were around me then. Not until recent years have I learned more about Gothard's own sin and his cult like control over his ministry went hand in hand. I realize now that the umbrella of authority teaching is no where in scripture.

[@elizabethmorris8639]

I had a friend who went through a similar situation. She finally got out out on her own, her family totally ignored her, wasn't allowed in her sisters wedding, etc. She was going through a lot. She met the man she would eventually be engaged too. They were coming back from picking out the wedding venue and she died in a car wreck 😔 2 years ago this month...I still miss her! I am so glad she was able to be free for a few years, but she was hurting from the rejection and hate she felt (particularly from her father). I'll see her in heaven one day! ❤️

[@TruckDriver2005]

I'm so sorry for your loss. What a day of rejoicing that will be when you can see your friend again.

[@CM-sy3to]

Bill Gothard could add this story to his curriculum....went out from parent's cover and wham! a fatal car accident.

[@MootsieMama]

I love the Duggar family. Some of the kids are my friends. I think that Jim Bob and Michelle were just doing what they thought was best, like all of us do when we are raising young children. I know that there are some things they wish they had done differently, like all of us do. I wish nothing but great things for Jinger and this family.

[@deborahholmes8275]

Who knows? Perhaps Jinger and Jeremy has been sent by God to make a change in Jim Bob and Michelle's beliefs? God's work is never done and when he makes a move? No one can deny it came from God. Jim Bob asking Jeremy to do 60 hours of watching Goddard's teaching? Look at what it did for them, it set them up in a marriage that has true faith. Isn't God good!

[@vivianrichards1313]

I hope that Jim Bob and Michelle come to their senses and break ties with that particular religious sect. I think they have been living life being blinded by the false teachings of a mere mortal who had no experience in relationships, marriage or children and have been needing to have their eyes and hearts truly opened to their God again. It's sad that upheaval has happened within the family but, ultimately, I think it needed to happen to shake Jim Bob and Michelle from their doctrine slumber.

[@dccd673]

They were absolutely deceived and having married young, they probably thought it was the right thing to believe.

[@Kwildcat13]

Covering up any amount of molestation isn’t putting your kids first .. I don’t blame any siblings but the parents in my book couldn’t possibly be biblical . Jesus saves but kids are innocent and allowing innocent kids to be traumatized and downplay it isn’t something that’s ok to me or Jesus .. take care of the innocent .. but everyone is human and imperfect so only time will tell what the rest of their story will be ..

[@beverlyyoung4253]

This is completely different than just raising children! As parents we are responsible for our children mental and emotional wellbeing. You must test everything in this world against the word of God so that no one’s teaching is leading you….GOD IS LEADING YOU! Headship (God -Man) helpmeet (woman) =covering for your children. Truth is in the word not confusion, God is not the Author of confusion.

[@jamiebluer9948]

I love the way you honor your parents. So happy you found the truth.

[@lisanowling5589]

Bravo Jinger! I am so glad you detangled your faith and did not throw it away. Bless you and your family 🙏

[@karene.3838]

I came out of Bill Gothard teaching as well. Discovering Gods grace was mind blowing. Detoxing has taken years but it is so freeing!

[@teresagonzales5502]

I came out of the legalist church 15 years ago and didn’t understand the Grace of God during my journey there. I am so thankful that I am in a new season in Christ.

[@InfoLunix]

Growing up as a Pentecostal in a Caribbean country I can relate so much to the legalistic way she was raised! Great convo.

[@Youngmom68]

His seminar Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts my mom took me to one when I was 13. All I remember is the end when Bill Gothard would come out and do paintings. I believe my mom wanted to protect me and keep me innocent. I don’t believe she meant any harm. I’m grateful she cared so much that she took me to a conference about God.

[@drumsNstuff79]

I was raised in the Methodist church myself and it was great! I remember "children's time" sermons where when even that young, the minister would get right down on the sanctuary floor with us and preach that God was on our side, and no matter how badly we messed up, we could always right ourselves. We're all human, and should not feel guilt, unless we've really truly done something bad. And even then, we can always pray and apologize to those we've wronged and seek forgiveness. We're flawed, and we have impulsive emotions. We get angry, sad, jealous, depressed, greedy overly prideful, etc. Yet that's okay. You always get a "do-over" to make it right and get back on the path. Also more importantly, you don't judge others who are not on your path. Your destination is a deeply personal one and they could be headed in a different but still great direction. Don't look down on other denominations in Christianity. Don't look down on other faiths. Don't be angry with or afraid of people who may be atheist or not super spiritual, as long as they are good peopleand do good things.

[@LindsAyWithAttitude]

I love this girl. Always have. She's really amazing. I had no clue about the struggles she had to deal with. Its not good that she went through them, but to know that we have all gone through hard things just helps us all feel a bit more connected to one another. I do wish I could be as graceful and still down to earth as her. I will never understand why they took counting on off the air. It's not the kids fault that the brother had issues.

[@AmyE89]

I was inspired by their family not because of their teachings but because of how they showed pure fruit of the spirit. I love the family. Especially the older kids from counting on. May God bless them over and over for the example they set. I never got into legalism but I back slid hard during college and came back to Christ after having a child out of wedlock. A lot of the reason I found God again was watching counting on and seeing the purity these girls had. I have no idea who Bill was but just loved the hearts of this family and even when confused by those teachings, they still showed beautiful heart.

[@natalieeubank4533]

I wouldn’t call that pure…that was tv

[@sarahuber8567]

I really enjoyed warm their family too. The way they interacted, played, functioned as a team. And it was NOT fake.

[@choosingbeautiful3888]

Oh my goodness her comment on parenting and how easy it is to slip into old beliefs is so so true. I grew up SDA and catch myself doing it with my kids!! What a great interview! I need to read her book.

[@chrisallen8489]

Oh Jinger! What an amazing testimony for the Lord! Yes! God loves us and would never want us to be "controlled" by another person. I'm so happy to hear that you are now FREE! I am a Christian, 45 years saved and I am STILL learning! It never ends. God WANTS us to know the "deep and hidden" things he has for us. God gives, He gave, and keep on giving! Thank you for sharing AND writing the book! You have shared in a way that honors your parents. So many people have grown to hate them, I'm sad to say,. It sounds like they really WERE good parents, in spite of their erroneous belief system. But God can bring them around, too. Maybe even by using YOUR book! God bless you and your little family!

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

Super excited to watch this!!! I got out of the cult 20+ years ago and there are still things I have to work through. I JUST was saved in 2019, and I thought I was saved when I was young, but I just learned how to follow rules. So many people have no idea the dangerous theology from ATI, Bill Gothard’s private homeschool group, and IBLP, the seminars to reach the public. Prayers for everyone involved! Thank you Allie for having Jinger to share her story!!!

[@deborahholmes8275]

Thing is this, Anyone who talks about God and Jesus and lead people away? God will judge them. It will not be pretty for them. So, we must pray that someone or something intervenes.

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

@@deborahholmes8275 i agree that there will be consequences for anyone that leads away from Christ. I actually deconstructed, completely. I wasn’t saved, like I believed, so tearing everything down made more sense. I had to rebuild everything not just untangle things. Choosing a man to follow to lead me to Christ was difficult, but God gives His Word to hold the leaders to.

[@kathleenrutherford733]

John Macarthur is a Solid Teacher

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

@@kathleenrutherford733 yes, he is, unlike Bill Gothard

[@annamineer2521]

@@staceyladychristwarrior Gary Hamrick is an amazing teacher/pastor.

[@setapart6937]

I’m so excited for this episode. I feel like this video is going to impact a lot of people. Many people from all walks of life will be tuning in to see what Jinger has to say. Not only will Jinger’s testimony be huge but these people will also be exposed to your channel. There are well known KZbinrs who like to gossip about the Duggars who’ll be watching and listening to two Christian women talk theology. I know one KZbinr in particular is an atheist so I’m hoping and praying God uses today’s episode to touch her heart.

[@OldSchool_diva]

I’m an one of those ppl. I’ve watched that show but listening to her and her RELATIONSHIP with God blew me. 🗣 Definitely buying her book as well as for a few friends. So proud of her but I’m also proud that she brought AN AMAZING soul with her to share and teach this WORLD. Bravo

[@randomvintagefilm273]

Is that one KZbinr's initials K.J.? I'm hoping she sees this too

[@wendyouellette]

I’m hoping she listens to this also. @randomvintagefilm273 I know who you’re talking about. Sadly she’s committing one of the worst sins of all and it’s proclaiming to her listeners and I’m sure she tells her friends she doesn’t believe in God. I cringe when I listen to her say that and uses the word atheist I pray she soon realizes it’s sinful plus if people are listening that don’t know God or believe what she’s saying she’s taking people away from God. I can’t believe in not believing in our wonderful God.

[@jerriettaarcher7665]

@@wendyouellette I unsubscribe her when I heard her say that

[@wendyouellette]

@@jerriettaarcher7665 I did too! She’s a problem also but that was the worst thing I couldn’t stand.

[@aprilcarter2599]

I wasn’t interested in her book before this interview but now I’m going to go purchase it. She’s grown so much! Wow. What a lady with such grace still spreading Gods love.

[@TJNappier]

Both ladies so smart and articulate. This was an excellent interview.

[@lindafisher7304]

How wonderful to see the radiant woman Jinger has become! I sensed such a different spirit about her and when she met her husband, I knew he was a man of God. I am 73, and was brought up in a Gothard-like church where I never felt worthy or loved by God. But after marrying at 18, I soon became a mother and was so confused I constantly contemplated suicide. Then I started actually going to Gothard's seminars and became even more confused. God finally got me into a church where I heard about GRACE, and I got free indeed. I just wanted to comment that I believe Jinger, like me, had a particularly tender heart toward God at a young age, which made us even more susceptible to rigid, legalistic teaching. Thank God we're free!

[@flowerpower3618]

I actually have something good to say about Bill Gothard ‘s teaching. It was his financial freedom seminar. It taught me the difference between things I thought were needs and actual needs. Plus the importance of not going into debt. It has helped me through life and because of it we are debt free in our 60’s.

[@njhdreams2415]

I had great experience with biblical teaching from Gothard. It's not the teaching - it's people who bring others to shame. God sets healthy parameters for us in His Word. Gothard exposed some rebellious spirits in some people.

[@dorettadavies8298]

We attended the Gotthard seminars as well as taking our children to the children’s Institute. I had a very discerning spirit about it all and took from it what I felt God wanted me to. My children benefited from the children’s Institute and the songs and I pass them one to the later children I had. We love the character sketches and the songs still. I realize I’m sure that there is a lot of miss truths and cult like teachings in his ministry, but we did benefit from the character qualities that he taught. But as a few people have said , there are a lot of false prophets, and we need to be very careful about peoples teachings, whether they are regular people or ministers or public figures. I am thankful for the teaching of the umbrella of protection and the biblical teachings of the parents, being under the authority of God, and the children being under the authority of parents. When we stray outside of that, we do open ourselves up to problems. I’m sure this family suffered quite a bit of problems with the teachings and the public scrutiny. I don’t believe that people should be exploited like that.

[@Makrothumia87]

I didn't grow up under Gothards preaching, but I did grow up under legalism and the constant fear that I would lose my salvation or that the hundredth time I prayed for salvation that it wasn't real because I maybe got angry at my sisters the next day. God's brought me a long way from there. This episode was wonderful.

[@timhamelin5721]

I went through something similar. My parents brought us up with Bill Gothard theology back in the seventies. Still healing from all of this so many years later. Difficult to shake this programming. So glad to hear that Jinger has worked through much of this. I can relate on so many levels.

[@scottgonzalez7574]

This is Scotts wife: This does my heart good. My family was entrenched in the hyper Charismatic Movement for years, so we were biblically ignorant to the Truth of Gods Word. My daughter and I would watch all the Duggar shows but didn’t agree with all the legalistic stuff. God in His grace, opened our eyes to the Truth that we were believing a false gospel that does not save and false teachings. We started watching biblically sound teachers like John MacArthur, which got us into Gods Word. Im so glad the Vuolos eyes were opened too, and pray many more in their family will be delivered from deception. Thank the Lord!!!

[@suzannepeak2327]

Beautiful testimony of how powerful our God is in overcoming every deception. Thanks, Allie, for having Jinger on your program. What a wonderful encouragement, highlighting the grace of our Father.

[@rachaelclarke3076]

Expositional preaching was the most awesome thing to come into our family's life!

[@wolverine9632]

As a young Christian man who has 8 siblings and was homeschooled for my entire childhood, everyone I met as a kid always said, "OMG you're just like the Duggars!" I hated it so much. I am SO proud of Jinger for being strong, both mentally and spiritually, and making her way out of the publicly broadcasted cult-like mentality she was thrust into.

[@jenniferditman3788]

She seems so strong. She's been through so much. What an encouragement. She seems based in The Lord.

[@msolorzano6990]

So glad for this testimony. We saw Ginger and her family at Grace Comm church in CA when we were taking our daughter back to TMU ...and smiled knowing they were getting solid teaching and on a great path of gospel truth! God bless you and thank you for sharing and exposing false teaching at the risk of alienatin yourself!

[@laurasavage1528]

Was it the church where John MacArthur preaches?

[@ashelizabeth9844]

I can relate to this so much. I used to be told growing up that my sins would cause my parents car problems, health problems, etc. Sounds so bizarre but I heard it so much that I believed it. That caused so much anxiety for me, even in adulthood. I thank Jesus for showing me the truth.

[@michaelfendrich1864]

I am very thankful for the work that the Lord has done in and through Jinger. His grace is truly sufficient. Very good interview.

[@mizzymel4957]

Excellent interview! It is very heartwarming to see Jinger doing so well…she is much more relatable and “real”! Her grace is an amazing example of Gods love. 💗

[@gabepoirot]

such a good interview! thank you for spreading the word

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

I'm surprised Allie was so ignorant on the IBLP movement and Bill Gothard tho

[@benjamincase1427]

My mother worked at Shepherds in the 80's when they sent her to a Gothard conference. My mom was single at the time and had moved to Wisconsin from her parents' house in New York. Naturally, he chose to teach about how sinful it was for a single woman to live apart from her parents' authority. My Mom brought the issue up with the leadership, and really it came down to one question: Was the leadership at Shepherds aiding my mother's sin in providing a single woman with a living apart from her parents authority, or were they sinning in promoting teachings that add to Scripture - which God explicitly commands us not to do? It was one of those two, and Mom knew which one it was. Suffice it to say she was never a fan, and even warned people in our church when they started using his material in the early 2010s.

[@barbsutter9978]

This interview was very timely for me as our pastor is an expository preacher and his sermon last weekend was on 1Timothy 4: 1-5 dealing with deceitful spirits, hypocrisy of liars etc. I praise The Lord for helping Jinger to see the truth and pray her other family members will as well! ❤

[@beckyklepper315]

This is a very good interview, and I'm grateful for how Jinger is so thorough without condemnation for her family, but the freedom she's found.

[@CultJam78]

My sister and I loved watching 19 Kids and Counting and Jinger was always our favorite! She seemed to “get it” on a different level than her siblings. Go Jinger! Great seeing her doing well.

[@kelamram]

Really admire her relationship with the Lord. Praise God for what he's doing in their lives!

[@denisevandermey6524]

I appreciate Jinger’s pure honesty. I love the testimony that she is sharing here

[@lisastutzman3140]

I grew up under this type of teaching. Gothard was a household name. I also rebeled totally. Now I have had to learn what God's love is. It's been a journey for sure.

[@PyrPupMom]

The shepherd loves his lambs!

[@donnaharris9270]

Great interview. And I love the contrast between disentangling vs. deconstruction. It seems to me that deconstruction tosses out the authority of Scripture; people keep what they want of it and explain away the parts they don't like. But in disentangling, Jinger keeps going back to the Word of God as her basis of Truth. No doubt that we can always learn more from the Word and refine our faith!

[@heatherbugnacki6689]

I’m proud of Jinger for not throwing the baby out with religion’s dirty bath water! She shines bright with the love of God ❤

[@triple7man]

This was good. I attended Bill Gothard's Basic Youth Seminars in the late 1970's. Everybody was going to it. I lived in Dallas, TX and he always did the seminar live. There was something wrong with you if you didn't go. For the most part, I benefitted from them. He may be a bit rigid and legalistic on some things, but I found them very helpful. The problems I had was not Bill Gothard, but Gothardites. They were the most rigid people I ever saw. I was not raised in a Christian home (I'm Jewish) and I was getting much counsel from my father against what God's word taught. None of the Gothardites believed me. They kept telling me that God is speaking through my parents. One man told me I needed to get back under my father's authority. I was a few weeks away from turning 31. I couldn't get him to listen to me; he kept saying I needed to get back under my father's authority to see what God is saying through him. Many of the Gothardites took his word as literally gospel. A professor at Dallas Theological Seminary told me that I'm not a child and God will hold me accountable for the decisions I make. Also that going against my father's counsel is not mocking God, like it says in Proverbs. A Gothardite told me that the seminary professor was wrong. At a seminar, I went down at the break and I asked Bill exactly what my relationship to my parents should be as an adult. He said I should be independent (which was what my pastors said) and making my own decisions. I can ask my parents counsel on decisions I'm not sure about. I'm ok with that. But my Gothardite friends who insisted I was still under my father's authority didn't buy it. Looking back, you need to go to the source, not what someone else says. When you quote someone, it always gets distorted, like the game of Telephone. It is unfortunate what happened to Gothard, but when he refused to be accountable and teachable, that happens. As a pastor, Scripture must always be taken in it's original context, with the author's intended meaning. Much preaching I see is topical with verses taken out of context as proof texts. Bill Gothard's red notebook was loaded with Scripture references. But I wonder what would happen if we take those references, put them back in context and see if they mean what Gothard says. Just because a pastor picks up a Bible and quotes a verse here and there does not mean he is preaching the word (2 Tim. 4:2). Pastors need to do their exegesis, fulfill their callings and preach the word.

[@kkeenan536]

Gosh, reminds me of healing from PTSD!! Bless Jinger for the courage to speak the truth

[@staceyladychristwarrior]

A lot of us survivers have struggled with PTSD. It depends on how long in the program and how strict the rules were obeyed. It was all I knew, like Jinger. Some parents didn’t adhere to all the rules, but if the children were raised in it with nothing else, it’s impossible to eat the meat and spit out the bones, like parents.

[@peggydangerfield9668]

Jinger might have been experiencing scrupulosity. I have seen stories of people coming out of the LDS church that have similar experiences of fear of not doing enough to be accepted or pleasing to God. I think it happens in high demand religions. Many former LDS members walk away from faith all together. Praise God that Jinger has a strong relationship with the Lord!

[@China-Clay]

It’s a very personal journey for anyone leaving a high demand religion

[@whitneypay515]

I have never had this experience with LDS church. From my perspective a lot of this seems to come from their family members.

[@lindseymiller8165]

Like another comment I haven't felt this at all from the lds church. Though, I do know many that have felt that. This is more culturally perpetuated than doctrine perpetuated. It's sad, but lots of people in the faith make it very fear based. My relationship with God and my religion is one of love, grace and forgiveness.

[@VWCheryl]

If you don’t think it’s a church thing you need to watch more videos of church leaders telling people they don’t have choices to go on missions or pay tithing. It IS a super high demand religion.

[@birdenthusiast2095]

My husband was born into the Mormon church and recounts, as a teenager, having to meet with the bishop to account for living a morally clean life. It was traumatizing for him because he was a typical teenage boy with raging hormones. What a shameful experience for him. Either he lies about not having sexual thoughts or he tells the truth and is chastised. He felt damned either way. He left the Mormon church when he was 21 y/o to follow Christ. He’s now almost 60 and loves the Lord.

[@mgpm17]

I was raised in a church that preached fire and brimstone. As a teen I asked myself one day, do I want to fear God or love him? I chose love. I knew that respect for God, his authority, his perfect justice was very important, but I was shown through the Holy Spirit that he is our very best friend. The One who loves us beyond our understanding and that I could trust in His mercy. God bless Jinger and this book. I hope her family will be healed by it.

[@tourmaline7385]

I am so happy to hear this! Praise God. I love the term disentangling. That’s perfect. I will pray for everyone in Jinger’s family (who hasn’t already) to disentangle and not deconstruct.

[@ahhitskatie9094]

Goodness, what a beautiful testament to The Lord's grace and goodness. I've been struggling with forgiving a close family member for years of manipulation and abuse "done in Jesus' Name". I've been praying so much about the hurt and anger I've felt and this video helped immensely. Thank you both, God bless you.

[@barbs1298]

Religious extremism & legalism as well as cults create much trauma in children's lives who then carry it into adulthood along w/the guilt & shame. Forgiveness is vommendable, but it doesn't mean forgetting. At some point, you might want to consider some trauma counseling to understand what you went through & triggers that many experience as adults. Yes, Jesus can & does heal, but He also uses counselors to bring about that healing.

[@mejusthot]

🙏

[@MelissaDougherty]

Oh wow, looking forward to this one! 👀🍿

[@arpineh.beglaryan8743]

Huge respect for this girl who, in telling her story, shows so much respect and love for her parents and, at the same time, exposes the flaws of the teaching she grew up under. I can definitely relate since I grew up in a legalistic church. Nothing can be more liberating than finding the true love of God. 💗 if I were the interviewer, I would have asked what the reaction of her parents was to this book...

[@birdman9265]

So proud of Jinger. Thank God she found Jeremy! It was definitely a match made in heaven and she was able to get out of the Gothard doctrine.

[@winknasmile20]

Her parents prayers have still been answered, even if they lived under flawed teachings. She has grown into a wonderful woman of the Lord, which has I’m sure been their sincerest prayer for all of their children. I have a huge soft spot in my heart for the Duggars. Through the years I saw the legalism in their beliefs and worried about the damage it may bring to some of them (their eldest…ugh) but I also saw a genuine desire from them to raise their children to love the Lord. They were sincere in their beliefs and God can still bless and answer those prayers. I appreciate the honor she still shows her parents, they were led astray in many aspects due to their desire to please God and were taken advantage of by a cult leader. I hope JB and M will be delivered from their bad teachings by the faith of their adult children and the scriptures without manipulation. Great interview.

[@impressingminds]

Love this comment!!!

[@DavidSandyOfficial]

Wow... Romans 4 and 5 relate directly to this. Jesus said to love God and love others but this is only possible when we trust and rest in what Christ has already paid for and first receive love. Obedience must be from love not for love. It is only then that obedience to God can be compelled selflessly and supernaturally by the love of God poured out through the Holy Spirit.

[@GailMailable]

Deconstructing vs. disentangling is like the difference between mowing down the entire garden, because there are weeds vs. separating wheat from tares (weeds).

[@andreaarias2085]

After accepting the Lord, at age 25, and beginning to attend church,. my friend suggested I attend Bill Gothurd's seminar in Long Beach. I based my life on the information I learned there! I'm 73 now, and I realize how much my thinking was influenced by this teaching!

[@Laundrey1]

I grew up around people who judged my mom, my siblings, and myself for not joining Bill Gothard’s teachings. She went to one of his conferences and knew it wasn’t right. I’m so thankful she didn’t. She doesn’t know the Duggars are entangled in his teachings because she likes them but she wouldn’t approve of those teachings. One boy I met when I was in middle school I ran into many years later when we both worked in a Christian bookstore during our college years. I was trying to move out and live closer to college and my job and he was trying to get away from the harmful Gothard home environment he grew up in. He had to hide from his parents that we were going to live together (we weren’t dating each other - just friends) and we were trying to figure out how we were going to pull it off. It never happened because I ended up moving cities away and that’s a whole different story. I just remember him trying to escape that. Not sure if he ever stayed in the faith or not. We lost touch when I moved and I never saw him again. It’s good to see one Duggar after another starting to leave these harmful teachings. Seems it’s the ones that move away from their toxic parents that end up seeing the harm. It’s so hard because many lose the faith over it. I almost did when I got sucked into the NAR for over a decade.

[@Lovedatfirstwrite]

Wonderful interview! I love how she honored her mom and dad. They truly did their best. I also love how her husband was discerning when they were listening to those teachings. Rooting for you, Jinger!

[@katharineshade9550]

Did they really do their best? They’re adults, they forced their kids to follow Gothard’s rules.

[@katherinekeon7034]

They did not do their best. They actively did the worst they possibly could. Sexing each other for decades why they made these children raise themselves. They did not do their best. They are absolute horrible disgusting human beings who have destroyed an entire group of young souls.

[@mesquitegirl2013]

@@katharineshade9550she. They started following those teachings probably because they were desperate and didn’t think to discern those teaching compared to what the Bible actually teaches

[@katharineshade9550]

@@mesquitegirl2013 Probably, but 20-30 years later, to have not reassessed it?

[@keepyoureyeswideopen]

"they truly did their best" hahahaha. look at Josh.

[@smcb2202]

Thank you Allie for pointing out that we all have untangling to do. I had a lot of the same thoughts as Jinger around the same ages and wasn’t brought up in that teaching. I have worked through a lot of the same things and had to realize God isn’t just out to get me. For me her story is very relatable!! I think it’s also telling that Jim Bob let his girls court men who weren’t in the same church. Shows his trust in his daughters when they knew who they wanted to marry. Maybe Jim Bob and Michelle are mislead but faithful to God and good parents just the same. Lindsay in Ontario 🇨🇦

[@aajoice]

I grew up Church of Christ and had the same feelings of condemnation. Thank God I found His grace.

[@tombigger53]

YES, THERE IS NO ASSURANCE OF SALVATION AVAILABLE IN ANY AND ALL " CHURCH " OUTFITS . THE WORKS ADDED TO HIS GRACE HIS AND HIS FAITH IS FALSE GOSPEL AND CAUSES FEAR OF GOD... YOU CAN NEVER KNOW IF YOU HAVE WORKED ENOUGH. JESUS DID IT ALL ,IT IS TO HIS WORK ON THE CROSS THAT WE GIVE HIM WORSHIP AND GLORY FOR HIS DOING WHAT WE CANT DO FOR OURSELVES AS NATURAL SINNERS. WE LOVE HIM ONLY BECAUSE THANKFULLY. HE FIRST LOVED US BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE CREATION WAS LAID... LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE OF THE LIFTIME SINNER ON THE CROSS NEXT TO JESUS THAT WAS IMPUTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AT THE LAST FEW MINUTES BEFORE BEING BORN AGAIN WHILE BEING NAILED DOWN UNABLE TO DO ANY WORK AT ALL OR BE WATER BAPTISED.. HE WENT TO HEAVEN BECAUSE JESUS CHOSE HIM BEFORE TIME BEGAN. CHECK OUT R.C. SPROUL AND JOHN MACARTHUR REFORMED EVANGELICAL CHURCH.