Borg Queen Is Convinced to Stop Destroying Humanity • Star Trek Picard S02E10

#startreklegacy
#light
#borg
#newborg
#Q
#mercy
#picard
#Sevenofnine
#continuum
#s02e10
#raffi
#killing

[@pbx7257]

“Resistance is.. optional. You will be assimilated… if it’s ok with you.” -New Kinder, Gentler Borg.

[@demondtownson9374]

Ruined borg

[@terranman4702]

They fucking ruined the best and scariest Star Trek concept.

[@dibaterman]

Eh, they just made B story cannon is all. Despite what she said the Borg do end up joining the Alliance which includes the Federation.

[@iamthedarkmagician475]

@@mysticmarble94 i like that take on their new opening hail

[@baabaaer]

You'll be surprised by how many humans do want to be a robot. Although not as a mindless drone.

[@Forge17]

In case anyone is still unaware, Jurati did not take the place of the Borg queen that we were used to before, nor are the old Borg gone. She started her own voluntary collective in the 21st century where she was left. When asked at the ST convention, it was said there are now essentially two collectives, Jurati’s cooperative collective and the old Borg collective still crippled by Janeway’s neural virus.

[@ginger_nosoul]

Interesting, thank you for commenting something useful!

[@pedrowolffenbuttel9763]

Thank you so much for the explanation! I was really confused with all this

[@Forge17]

@@pedrowolffenbuttel9763 @ginger_NoSoul happy to help!

[@bakachan3601]

And there's always the mirror universe Borg, if they have Borg in the mirror universe. I mean I'm surprised they never did anything with that it's literally just a transporter modification away. :x

[@jarrodskufcagaming5203]

@@bakachan3601 the Mirror Borg are far more dangerous than Prime Borg. the Mirror Borg can destroy a Vor'cha class battlecruiser in one shot, also Mirror Borg drones are so fast, the moment anyone steps onto their ship they are instantly assimilated

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

"We won't go back. You don't know what it's like in our universe. The Federation gone! The Borg is everywhere! We're one of the last ships left. Please... you've got to help us!" -- A counterpart of William Riker.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

So much so that they self destructed their own ship to prevent from returning.

[@raz1980.]

@@MisteRRYouTuby No it was a warp core breach from fighting the Borg.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

@@raz1980. Thanks for correcting me.

[@Amardarial]

@@MisteRRYouTuby Yea, they tried to fight back, prime enterprise fired on them, and set off their core.

[@Renorick1]

@@Amardarial Unintentionally. Didn't even hit them that hard. Poor bastards. Probably did them a favor, sadly.

[@tjp72675]

10,000 years of conquering and assimilating, yet somehow Agnes convinces the borg queen to change her ways after a 2 minute conversation

[@humr2346]

Probably nobody tried it before. They were told that resistance is futile.

[@superhayes256]

She was also essentially the sole surviving wounded and weakened borg left from a dark reality. Doesn’t matter if she was aware of other realities or not. That can’t have been good for her mental health.

[@justhino]

Well its more than a conversation. They are sharing a body, experience the same emotions. It probably looks ridiculous to Seven, just Agnes talking to herself. But its Agnes' resolve and hope that is convincing the queen, and the demonstration that through those emotions she is regaining control over the Queen. Proving their strength to her. Just my two cents.

[@nixy7473]

Sane for Lex Luthor and Brainiac

[@zoso1980]

Ah, NuTrek just when I think it can't retcon things anymore, it does. The Borg choosing to embrace diversity. Gee, that one fell out of the sky did it not?

[@ChristopherG1990]

Borg Queen: They've left behind their trivial selfish lives and been reborn with a greater purpose. We've delivered them from chaos into order. Seven of Nine: Comforting words. Use them next time instead of resistance is futile. You may elicit a few volunteers”

[@rjframe4410]

@@Zarken26 and yet that EXACT same concept is being played out here....

[@SeansModelBuilds]

Wow, I had completely forgotten about that.

[@ganados0]

"Assimilation turns us all into friends, in fact it brings us so close together, we can hear each others thoughts." "I was just about your age when I was assimilated, I was worried then too, but when I began to hear the others, hear their thoughts, I wasn't afraid anymore." "Would you like to be with your parents? they miss you, they want to see you." Queen to a little boy in Unimatrix Zero, lulling him to the hive mind, he's already been assimilated but spared the collective thanks to a recessive gene. Maybe she listened.

[@Washuluver87]

As we saw in the Picard series Finale Jurati was right, the collective is inevitably defeated. The queen left bereft without a collective dying alone.

[@jehiahmaduro6827]

Yeah😣😣 sadly that is exactly what happens

[@edwardharris5301]

despite this seasons flaws.. it must be said.. Annie absolutely nailed it as the borg queen.. the insecurity, the humour and now the naked contempt for all but herself basically

[@thomashenderson3901]

Yeah, Jurati got / is the essence of all of the best scenes.

[@chump5876]

@@thomashenderson3901 it's strange to me that people like the crazy murder lady 😂

[@humangarbage6533]

Sorry, wrong on all counts. But you already know that from the state of your life and that you've chosen to watch this show and post publicly about it...definitely a correlation...

[@chump5876]

@@humangarbage6533 2 seasons so far and both of em she murdered people In cold blood without any consequences. 😂 I just want to see them kill off my favorite character from TNG that way I can have some solice that Kurtzman can't touch him anymore. Season 3 can shove off won't be watching it because season 2 was already such a joke 😂

[@thomashenderson3901]

@@chump5876 Yeah, when you put it that way!! Ha! But on both counts she was posessed with something quite powerful. Season 2 has been slow and dull for the most part, I don't know how they got it so wrong. 9 was a lot better, I hope the final episode really pulls something out the bag.

[@burleyscott2910]

This goes back to what Giunin said when the Federation first encountered the Borg. In time there might be possible to establish relations with the Borg. For now, for right now you're just raw material to them.

[@xxlCortez]

That's a huge stretch, Picard frequently contradicts established star trek lore.

[@theyux1]

@@xxlCortez It what way is that a stretch.

[@charlesmclain6558]

Seems like she remembers these events and somebody extrapolated a story on it, more than likely though it's probably just coincidence

[@CrisisComics]

"In time it might be possible" Not in this time, but a time where humanity essentially slaughtered the Borg to the last unit and forced a new ideology upon it.

[@gogereaver349]

did you not watch tng you dont make realtion with borg. no you dont whant a colletive of 7 of 9.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

Brent Spiner must've relished the chance of playing a character who unlike Data is the equivalent of Space Hitler 😉

[@TheNoybusiness]

You can see where Lore got it from.

[@andrewli1519]

Space Hitler, that's funny haha

[@humangarbage6533]

Brent spine loves money just like you

[@charlesstipes3726]

He loves playing villains. Always said so.

[@taiten7730]

It’s got me one Brent Spiner isn’t in more major blockbuster movies amazing actor

[@procta2343]

what a shame we lost this queen, Anne did the part really well, just as frightening as Alice and Susan.

[@alexgataric]

Sad that the actress died at 45 from cancer.

[@yupnope3171]

And the fact she was sick during filming.

[@procta2343]

@@yupnope3171 I think this was one of her last shows, as i think she may have filmed something else just after this was done. I often wonder if they had to rewrite some stuff, due to how ill she was.

[@DaviesD85]

RIP Annie. Taken too soon. My favourite iteration of the Borg Queen by far.

[@darksideofthesun7157]

The Borg being a true hivemind rather than a hive is such a more interesting thought experiment.

[@shep9231]

indeed. :)

[@shan4680]

Agents of SHIELD already did that wanting to feel a connection thing with Hive no less in Season 3.

[@humangarbage6533]

I dont thinl you even remotely understand what you're struggling to imply as a concept...

[@tonolinus]

what do u mean? the proposal is not even a hive mind. just some guys with implants working together. thats not what a hivemind is.

[@ElizaHamilton1780]

Meh. I feel like they’re reinventing the wheel. I bet that a very long time ago, longer than this Borg Queen can remember, the Borg really were like this. It’s like…think of what someone like Mark Zuckerberg first envisioned for Facebook. Or think about what the original founders of KZbin had in mind. People with these visions of what the future could be typically start out with good intentions. And then, it all goes sour somewhere along the way. Compromises are made. The good guys turn bad. “Don’t be evil” becomes a laughable Pollyanna myth…. I’ve guessed before that the Borg wasn’t always sinister. That a long time ago, it might’ve been something like Facebook with implants. It wasn’t supposed to be dangerous, and it was supposed to bring people together. But some line was crossed, and “bring people together” morphed into “assimilate or die” and “resistance is futile.”

[@JasenJohn]

Quick Fs in chat for the queen actress, she hid her cancer till it took over :(

[@TimmyTurner421]

R.I.P. Annie Wersching (March 28, 1977 - January 29, 2023) She kept her diagnosis private and continued to act afterward. Really saddened me when I found out that she passed away

[@JasenJohn]

@@TimmyTurner421

[@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc]

After watching the absolutely fantastic ending of Picard season 3 I like this even more. This connects with the classic themes of Star Trek. In a way, it connects even with the "Hugh" plot in TNG, how a single, isolated borg can be made to understand certain perspectives. Yes, this was a queen. But a queen completely defeated and isolated, merged with someone with a very analytical mind, a lonely personality and knowledge about what happens to the borg. Having the borg choosing to evolve in a different way is not a bad thing. I hope they bring back this collective in the future to explore new moral conflicts.

[@MrNorcal81]

RIP Annie Wershing who was great as the Borg Queen.

[@Eradicator-jv9xr]

I mean, think about it. The borg adapts to almost any situation and the only one power that's even better at that is the federation. In a span of 6 years, starfleet churns out an entirely new line of vessels designed to combat the borg effectively and from what we've seen in first contact they seem to be pretty good at that, defeating a borg cube with 20 lost out of 30+ federation vessels as opposed to 39 out of 40 lost at the battle of wolf 359. The point is that the borg cannot win in the timelines the queen is able to create without fundamentally changing the borg. Therefore it is better to cease hostilities and choose a way that will not result in the borg's demise. To those people saying they won over the queen via the power of friendship, How about the klingons? In beta Canon that includes the iconians, The dominion, and many others. I don't see you critisizing that.

[@alexturlais8558]

The difference is, we're told the borg are special compared to other species. Theyre an unstoppable single consciousness that only cares about ts mission. The borg nearly wipe out the federation with a single cube.

[@Eradicator-jv9xr]

@@alexturlais8558 technically no. They massed 30 ships to stop a cube. The federation can easily assemble fleets of hundreds of ships. The federation is a sleeping giant. If they really wanted to, they can make preparations within a decade and start invading the alpha and beta quadrants and they'll be nigh unstoppable with the collapse of the romulan star empire.

[@Eradicator-jv9xr]

@@alexturlais8558 also the force of nature thing technically isn't even true anymore since Voyager

[@anthonyju6392]

I think you forget that even a little further into the future in a timeline where Voyager isn't gifted a way home they figure out transphasic torpedoes and armor tech that allowed even Voyager which is only a scout class vessel to be able to destroy several full size cubes. It is true that Borg adapt but they adapt in a brute force method. They lack the creativity and ability to learn things previously unknown.

[@Eradicator-jv9xr]

@@anthonyju6392 without other civilisations to assimilate they cannot adapt. Also, they said they were chasing perfection but in reality I don't think they even know what the perfection they are searching for IS. The closest thing they came to perfection was the omega molecule and they are so volatile exposure to anything would explode.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

3:25 - 3:50 "Let's build a universe of Sevens!!" That's seem like a noble idea, Queen Jurati 😉

[@knowthatyoudontknow]

A universe of cold blooded killers? No thanks.

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

@@knowthatyoudontknow What are you, a fruit?

[@worldwarwitt2760]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 A pure durian

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

@@knowthatyoudontknow dont know why your complaining. All of humanity are super predators and your wars have proven humans are experts in cold blooded warfare

[@UNLebanon]

A universe of Sevens. Pretty sure I read a fanfiction like this once.

[@dlc1119]

What she brings to this Borg Queen is new - a willingness to *listen*. Far deeper than previous incarnations.

[@duckduckgoismuchbetter]

"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated into a Hallmark card."

[@spg1794]

all this time , the borg just wanted a hug😢

[@studentjohn]

We've seen a bunch of Borg co-operatives, mini collectives, micro collectives etc that weren't part of the Big Angry delta quadrant collective. And this Queen has just lived a timeline where they got wiped out (exactly how isn't given). The Borg's MO is analysis and adaptation - so for me it scans, in-universe, that she'd be willing to consider a fundamental change of approach. Narratively: I think that this is the only move for the franchise if they want to keep the Borg around. Voyager showed how neutering it was to keep them as the big bad but keep showing them as unable to beat the federation. This way they can be put on the back burner, but kept around for if the right story ever arises in future - that approach worked for the Klingons in TNG. Season 2 has had its flaws, but the Jurati-Queenie thread has definitely saved it for me, and this is a better wrap to it than I was worried we might get.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

My guess is that confed's timeline or universe Confed encountered various races and refugees from the Borg just like in the original prime verse. After interrogating the refugees and then either putting them in concentration planets or killing them off to not panic the rest of confed, likely sent out programmed drones or disposable exploration ships to search out the Borg. With any new race discovered marked for conquest and elimination. When the Borg was discovered, confed likely tried to capture a ship or a couple drones and quickly tried to understand the technology. By TNG era we know Confed directly fought against them so they likely had far more capable ships, and were probably more than happy to use viral and chemical or biological weapons against the Borg Confed is basically modern humanity with starfleet ships, and a fanatical authoritarian government hiding behind a thin veil of democracy

[@studentjohn]

@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent Sounds plausible. I wondered if, because General Picard was petitioning Pres. Hansen for the formal title 'Borgslayer' it had been done using some sort of one-off viral/ computer virus type weapon he'd set off himself - my reasoning being that the Borg's one big weakness is that they need a chance to observe a tactic to adapt to it. So if gen Picard went in super-agressive and deployed something (or a few somethings) against them that took down the whole collective, they'd never get a chance to use their powers of adaptation. I suppose one point to make is that the Confederation might be in for a shock down the road - ST:Picard does seem to confirm that the Borg are as much an infectious nanotech agent as they are cyborgs or a hive mind - so as long as there's one reviveable drone (and Voyager and Enterprise showed them reviving after decades of apparent death) or even a sample of nanoprobes surviving somewhere, they have a chance of bootstrapping themselves back into existence.

[@garycannon4644]

bro the borg got defeated by the power of friendship this is absolutely the worst thing possible lol this show and all of new trek is just god awful

[@studentjohn]

@@garycannon4644 Meh, so did the Klingons - several times over, in TOS and TNG. As a result they didn't have to be written out of the trekverse, and we got stories like DS9's Way Of The Warrior in the end. I mean, I get that this way of retiring the Borg is not to your taste, and that's legit, but if it's any comfort I'd bet that things will swing back then other way sooner or later, and the Borg will get a story by a writer that knows how to use them. I'm not gonna bet on when, but at least the door's been left open for it.

[@neobahumuth6]

@@studentjohn well said, I feel like ppl commenting haven't really watched the old seasons if they think this is so strange

[@D2Kprime]

So, what about the Borg coopertative that is _already_ in the Delta Quadrant? Remember the episode of Voyager where Chakotay encountered those former Borg drones that started a new society for themselves and eventually reconnected their neural-link?

[@dylancolon5871]

I'm assuming since Queen Jurati is 400 years ahead of them, the o.g. collective won't stand much of a chance.

[@humangarbage6533]

Lol the writers dont care

[@TheNoybusiness]

@@dylancolon5871 Not the collective, the cooperative. The splinter group Chakotay met.

[@TheNoybusiness]

She has time to join up with them.

[@charlesstipes3726]

@@humangarbage6533 People act like this is new. I mean you already had the fallout from FIrst Contact, specifically the borg debris/survivors in Enterprise. They get a slow signal off...archer says it will reach them in the 24th century. They just delayed the invasion.. so basically... Qs grand motion of introducing them to the borg before they were meant to was meaningless.. because they were always coming. And lets not get started on the dinosaurs that left earth 65 million years ago and have dna similiar to humans... yeah that happened. People act like WTF stuff is new with trek. TNG had its fair share too. Th ough to clarify, I do enjoy these developments. But all this is just part of what trek is. Peoples rose tinted glasses tend to forget decades of crazy insane ideas. Because the previous shows were more adventure of the week it was easier to forget the crazyness. Serialized format its a bit harder. But that insanity has always been part of trek. THe trek fandom use to untill recently be different. Some trek movies sucked. SOme were good. Some shows like enterprise got better with age. But we never outright savaged them. Even Final Frontier gets more amused chuckles (or use to ) than outright savaged. I will leave my lengthy rant with the words of spock himself: “Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae,” Open your mind! Be a ‘Star Trek’ fan and open your mind and say, ‘Where does Star Trek want to take me now’.” - Leonard Nimoy May 5 2009.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I really liked this approach. It was definitely my favourite theme of this season. It reminds me of the earlier writing of the Borg "we only wish to improve quality of life for all species"

[@MikeCrain]

I can't say I'm surprised the Borg queen was persuaded since she was already impressed by Agnes stealing information from her mind and Agnes caused her to experience things she otherwise never would. It may or may not have plot holes, but time travel in any story will always have contradictions since it can easily cause any number of paradoxes no matter how you believe time travel works.

[@humr2346]

Borg is asimilating for over 10k years. The queen could always access memory and aspects of individuality in every drone. Sudenly Agnes is that miracle what can change her?

[@BigFunnyGiant]

@@humr2346 this is a queen who has had no collective for who knows how long and had begun to have a mind and thoughts of her own.

[@Pedgo1986]

@@BigFunnyGiant Borg queen always have their own thought and mind, there are more then one queen and they are overriding will. People think its collective like ants or bee colony but is more like zerg from StarCraft where overmined is free will entity commanding the brood.

[@hashtagPoundsign]

If the writers had done their diligence, they would have seen the TNG episode “Parallels” that hints at a reality where the Borg have won. Also, the Borg queen was depicted in “First Contact” and “Voyager” the emerging personality of the collective, not a single being. In this sense the queen is just an avatar for interaction with individuals, which is why a queen is being assembled in “First Contact” and an episode of Voyager. Overall my biggest issue with this is that it comes off as like it’s someone’s fan fiction idea that doesn’t work with canon if you start asking questions.

[@Amardarial]

except it based on book cannon.

[@hashtagPoundsign]

@@Amardarial Next time try: “Except it’s based on the book ‘(insert book title here)’ which is considered canon. (if necessary, insert a brief explanation of why it’s considered canon here).” Never underestimate the value of using a few more words to make a point. You have plenty of time to formulate a thoughtful reply. My opinion still holds.

[@nextlevelenglish5858]

not at all, we don't know anything about the universe in "parallels". Eventually people would have risen up against the borg. So there is no contradiction there.

[@ianolexsak4054]

In that episode, we know the enterprise is one of the last of the federation. Doesnt mean that other species, didnt rise up and wipe them out. Saying they won and just wiping out the federation is two different things.

[@kellymoses8566]

The writers of this show have never watched a single episode of TNG.

[@CaneMcKeyton]

Boimler taught the Borg Queen empathy in a simulation. Jurati did it IRL

[@ALookIntoTheEulenspiegel]

Gotta love how something that is a ridiculous joke in Lower Decks is played as serious, straight drama in Picard S2.

[@xxlCortez]

Okay, let's get this straight: apparently, the unnecessarily face hiding borg from episode 1 was Jurati, who leads a cooperation-based borg group. Then she refused to tell who she was and forcefully attempted to convert the Federation fleet which scared them into self-destruct. Was that an elaborate plan to send them to the past and create the democratic queen? Yet Q was totally oblivious?

[@chump5876]

Obviously. Queen Jurati is the best. I mean she didn't kill anyone on the ship. And picard learned nothing obviously. Blowing up the peaceful borg. It's shamefull. I bet Q snaps him out of existence on the last episode for returning to his warmongering ways.

[@cryofpaine]

Totally oblivious? It's Q that set the whole thing in motion. Without Q, they don't go back in time, so the Cooperative Borg Queen isn't created. Everything that happens is because of Q. He may not have all his powers, but he's still seeing everything going on.

[@stevestevenson3252]

Q doesnt seem well so maybe he missed it.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

Jurati is still a scientist and has free will. It's likely she knew tearing into a alternate timeline and verse where she is present might cause further paradox events thus covered her face to avoid causing further shock

[@stevenreyngold1166]

This show is a tangled mess of mind numbing proportions, all led by an elderly Picard, a woke 7, and manipulated by a Q with dementia. My nose bleeds a little each episode now, but I'm so invested in this mental masochism that I must continue.

[@lordwind9745]

Queen Jurati knew Picard wouldn’t have recognised the situation the first time round and so she didn’t bother revealing her face, as it would have alienated Picard from her past self. She knew Q was going to snap them away so she had to maintain the chronological consistency.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

Perhaps- it's a decent explanation, and certainly makes rewatching less confusing

[@ML-yn9yu]

That's giving too much credit to the writing team

[@nicholas.alan85]

​@@ML-yn9yu 100%

[@msrlapin99]

Quick reminder of ST history: In Season 1, the Ferengi were supposed to be the scary new threat. That changed very rapidly. The Ferengi become comic, but also far more interesting. The Borg will never be comedy, but when they do show up it will be a big deal, but not always an obvious or immediate threat. This sort of story beat already happened is ST:TNG, when we were introduced to Hugh. The Borg have evolved as a story point. Their arrival will always be a huge deal as part of any plot, but exactly what they're here for is a wide open question.

[@rjframe4410]

This also give writers openings, is it the collective? the cooperative? the Agnes borg? or some new form of them?

[@edmundprice5276]

The Borg could have occasional stabs of dark comedy

[@jasonmckie4402]

You give Picard season 2 writers too much credit if you assume they even know about, let alone respect the rules TNG writers followed for portraying the Borg.

[@edmundprice5276]

@@jasonmckie4402 voyager writers changed the borg

[@jasonmckie4402]

@@edmundprice5276 changed yes but Picard disregarded any former behavior of the Borg at all and replaced them with what they thought they should be like with no continuity from TNG or Voyager.

[@pifko6]

This Borg queen is from an alternate reality, so in the prime universe, we have two borg queens! One is "kinder" which later merges with Jurati, the other one is still the greatest threat to the Federation! So we have two collectives! Our original Borg is still in the game!

[@ashleytrout7452]

This queen is so much more “human” than the others, the way she speaks is much more casual than other queens

[@voss0749]

She was a queen alone.

[@christopherpericolosi-king4979]

I'll always love Krige as the Borg Queen, but man did Annie steal this thunder!! Phenomenal acting and so sad she us lost forever

[@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164]

Brent Spiner is channeling his inner Lore the evil android.

[@demarcusfaulkner7411]

Old Dr jairardi standing up to the borg Queen. Her character's really evolved.

[@humangarbage6533]

When? Offscreen?

[@gogereaver349]

she beat the borg with fellings. becouse threw the magic of wrighting after shes asslamated shes not relly. sjw nonsone

[@STho205]

Hey she didn't fall on the floor and spew in this season...just belted out a Pat Benatar song for some Erica Goldberg reason and ate car batteries. Yeah I said that with a straight face.

[@WhisperingPeace]

The connection between Jurati and the Borg Queen was a fascinating one. Jarati's abilities, deceptions, resourcefulness, and utter brilliance caught the Borg Queen's full attention after the first time Jurati entered the Queen's consciousness. I adore Jurati, and the awesome and gorgeous woman who plays her. Jurati is no longer alone. She is a part of something almost perfectly suited for her. For those saying that the Borg got nerfed, just look at what the Borg evolved into at the beginning and ending scenes of that season of Picard. The Federation was powerless against them, and they were easily able to assimilate all of those Federation vessels until Picard was forced to activate the ships's self-destruct sequence, which led to intervention by Q. I would say that Jurati's persuasion of the Borg Queen led to a very powerful, resourceful, and effective new Borg collective; and one that ultimately help to prevent an unimaginable and catastrophic disaster. I hope we see Jurati again. She is a wonderful new character.

[@llywelynddraig853]

I dunno why ppl hate this, its the most treck scene ever. Somone making a speach about compasion and cooperation in order to build a better future... yes Janeway giving the borg a fist enema was fun to watch, but this is how Janeway should done it. Dont destroy the borg. Change them. Make them ADAPT. Iv always said the borg are just a few philosophies away from eutopia.

[@Scourge77]

The Monsters Inc approach. Instead of hurting (scaring), they adapt and change to helping (laughter). Interesting.

[@humangarbage6533]

You literally proved in that sentence your overqualified to ever work on this show...good work..m

[@8158bolga]

This is like some random human convincing Davros and the Daleks that the reason they seek to conquer everything is due to what they experienced in the thousand-year war…but that they do mot have to be afraid or everyone who is different, because they are also scared, and that the Daleks actions are only creating more enemies for them to fight; meaning an infinite war, that never ends.

[@aurumvale9908]

yeah but Daleks are literally born to hate anything that ain't Dalek (which includes Darvos in some media) whereas the concept of the Borg was stupid from day one. no way in hell is is ever gonna be a boon to be be a cyborg where the robot part is in control. The borg should've just abandoned their organics entirely and become full machines. not like it aint impossible to still assimilate ppl but them being partially organic was always a fundamental weakness.

[@8158bolga]

@@aurumvale9908 Funny you mention that, because that is exactly what happened to the Cybermen in Jodie Whitaker’s second season; however, at that point, they are not Cybermen but mindless robots. The same goes for the Borg, where, regardless of how logical it is, the Borg must still view themselves as an organic race with cybernetic components…otherwise, like you suggested, why haven’t they just gotten rid of their organic components; and this is not even getting into a discussion about inhuman Borg, since we’ve only ever seen humanoid Borg. Ultimately, the Borg, like the Cybermen, is the fear of technology, and people being upgraded with technology, and that becoming a plague, where it is done against someone’s will. At least Doctor Who had the decency to keep the Cybermen as villains, whereas the Borg are reformed because…

[@dissonanceoffate]

What if this new Borg Cooperative becomes so good at convincing individuals or entire species to join freely that the Federation starts to be afraid of it and sees it as a enemy anyway? Also, a benevolend Borg could allow the existence of Unimatrix Zero, and use it in its advertisement. It could be even scarier than the Borg Collective.

[@epickithri]

I honestly think Jurati's Borg could become a Federation ally at bare minimum potentially a part of the Federation. However her collective would need to remain separate from the Borg we have known over the years so I'm not sure how from a story aspect to accomplish that.

[@manofbeard]

Season 3 is when Patrick Stewart realises that the first 2 seasons have been a farce and recruits the original gang to return the Borg back to being the baddies they were and that Jurati, And Rafi are assimilated by the Borg never to be heard from again.

[@ssia6938]

Having ultimate enemies come into the Federation is a regular thing in Star Trek canon. So after this they will need a new villain.

[@ciaranbrk]

A second dominion war maybe. Or the return of the iconians?

[@ChuckUFarley90]

@@ciaranbrk Nah, there's a better villain nobody's used yet: The Kelvans from TOS: "By Any Other Name" Unlike the Borg, they ACTUALLY conquered their whole galaxy.

[@bertellijustin6376]

This is how we end up with another race of ferangi

[@PeterDivine]

I'm actually impressed, the writers are actually such talentless hacks they managed to find a way to write the *Borg* poorly. How do you fuck up "Your consciousness will be added to our own, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile"? A race of independent sentients larping as Sevens is antithetical to everything the Borg has ever striven to be or achieve. It would be as repulsive an idea to the Queen as being ruled by the Solids was to the changelings.

[@mysticmarble94]

The Borg already heavily deviated from it's original representation in First Contact, through the introduction of the / a borg queen. Even so .... I still love First Contact as a piece of cinema.

[@ANTIStraussian]

They also made Q boring lol

[@freepizza589]

@PeterDivine I used to think people like you had a point, now I realize you're just scared of change. No one loves a static villain, but the second you introduce change people cry for "what used to be" or childhood nostalgia. It's not supposed to make perfect logical sense, it's a break from the continuity, which means only further stories down the line could possibly rationalize it. Could you critique the execution of it? Absolutely, but to just say "Oh X would never consider Y" is ridiculous because this is literally science fiction.

[@ANTIStraussian]

@@freepizza589 dude season 2 of Picard sucks ass

[@Aniaas1]

@@freepizza589 Change is fine - this change is dumb. Simple enough for you?

[@christopherrasmussen8718]

I drank with Spiner 12 years ago on kauai Hawaii. Mid day I went into a bar to get lunch. Place was empty but the owner. In walks Spiner. Carrying on about money and work. At the time he was not doing too good. He sat within 5 feet of me. I had my meal by then. I knew who he was and said hello. He asked me who I was and what I was doing. I was working at the Navy base. He bought me a beer and started drinking. He kept buying me beers till I was a bit drunk. He was drinking mixed drinks. I tell you , he is nuts. Like his characters. I think he still had that house behind the bar.

[@christianbavle]

About time the Borg learned the concept of consent. Because....reasons...I guess.

[@cainabel6356]

Nah. I liked that the Borg just take what they would. It is more realistic.

[@PeterDivine]

But why the hell would the Borg ever care about consent? To a Borg, an individual is inherently weaker than a collective, and a judgment call from an individual is a logically flawed, emotionally irrational decision from a mind so mired in its own ignorance, narcissism, and emotional instability it can't even realize how flawed it is or how much better the Borg could make it by incorporating it to their gestalt consciousness. This is why they don't ask for consent- if a candidate says yes, asking was a waste of time, and if they say no, they don't know what they're talking about and forceful assimilation is something the Borg does for a species' own good. The Borg are a techno-organic sponge, endlessly absorbing everything and everyone around them whether they like it or not, and the more they absorb, the more they have to adapt and absorb with. They're also the themes, ideas, and philosophies of the Federation, distilled and perfected to their most radical, logical conclusion. THAT is what makes them terrifying, effective villains.

[@bird266]

Its strange. The Borg has always searched for a "counter-part" to serve in their realm. I guess they found that in Jurati.

[@craigmarshall1980]

I mean come on. Can you imagine a clan of borg (because let's face it, somewhere in the delta quadrent the evil borg will still be out there) that joins the federation A group of do gooders. I mean I epuld love to see a series on that with Queen jurati and seven at the helm

[@MemoirsofaBasketcase]

A Federation with friendly Borg as members with ALL the knowledge/tech would be unstoppable.

[@thomashenderson3901]

I don't see it being an easy relationship. There's going to be some trust issues to keep us watching for years to come. I think the borg also needed to take this direction, there's only so long you can carry on being the near unstoppable assimilation brigade without actually having conquered the entire galaxy, and it not be a bit embarrassing. Their strength is their technological niche, and far better used for good than bad.

[@TheSaneHatter]

That may have been exactly what we were looking at in the beginning of the show: we still haven't gotten a full explanation.

[@JuricksEnterprise]

Sequel....Jurati-Borg Queen flies out to the Delta Quadrant and is immediately incinerated by a Borg Cube, story over.....(yawn)... What the Lefties writing this Crap don't understand is that the Borg are like Putin and the Commies...er...Russians - they don't give a damn about your Social Justice BS and hippy-dippy ideas!! They just blow you away!!

[@GusMcGuire]

@@MemoirsofaBasketcase didn’t we have that at the beginning of season one - with the rescued Borg led by Hugh. That was shaping up to be interesting. Unfortunately they killed them all off at the end of that season and promptly forgot about them - only to rehash the idea now in season 2 with Jurati in place of Hugh. The writing in this show just goes round in endless circles.

[@topdawg3359]

The Borg one of the most compelling entities man I hope I get to binge watch the whole thing but ty for a glimpse ty yt

[@p0pp4]

"Let's build a universe of Seven's." I got goosebumps!

[@lostboy09100]

most comments say that this ruins the Borg. I can't help but wonder if we're seeing the beginning of major Borg factions; one that follows this new path and the other that continues down the same forced path. we've had small attempts with the Borg Coopertive and the Unimatirx Zero Borg, but now we have the power of a Queen behind this one. this new faction having spent the next 400 years to build. not only would the Borg largely remain the same and trigger the events that led to the present day, but after being weakened by what the alternate future Admiral Janeway did to the last Queen, made way for this different Queen to emerge from the shadows and reach out to the Federation: a Collective made up of the 'outcasts' that were overlooked by the original Borg Collective before. even weakened I doubt this is the end of the Borg we know of. at least, not right away. imagine a Queen vs. Queen moment someday in the future. two different ways to attain the same end goal.

[@TromboneConductor767]

Couldn’t agree more! This has been a great season.

[@gabelogan5877]

it does feel like the writers are ruining the Borg. something that Voyager started by making the Queen a twirling mustachioed villain and the Collective constantly being beaten by a single ship. however, this follows the Roddenberry ethos of turning your greatest enemy into your ally. Also, I believe the Jurati Queen said that the Federation wouldn't have to fear the Borg under HER. implying that they would be a separate Collective from the Borg living in the 21st century. it suggests Juarti isn't going to tamper with the Borg's future by conquering them but allow them to develop as they were supposed to.

[@gabelogan5877]

it does sound like the writers are trying to have their cake and eat it to. they allow Jurati to create a new separate Collective and keep the old Collective around as a threat so they can use them to boost the ratings for the streaming franchise anytime they need it.

[@anothenymously7054]

Fanatic ideology takes many forms

[@Joe0161]

Build how exactly? Cant see many queuing up for 'friendly' assimilation myself. The whole concept is absurd and demonstrates (yet again) the show writers' lack of knowledge and/or respect for the source material.

[@-M0LE]

This show hasn’t got the skill to tackle the Borg They cocked it all up

[@nitroxide17]

Seven: um I'm dying here... wtf is with the long ass monologue??

[@tommytwotacos8106]

There is no such thing as "supposed to be". There is only what you have, and who you are, and what you end up doing with those two things. It's what Spock was trying to communicate to Valares in VI, that we must have faith that the universe will unfold as it should. It doesn't excuse you from trying to do the right thing as you see it, but it allows you to live with whatever happens as long as you stayed true to your principles and did everything you could.

[@blu3collar949]

How is it that the borg queen was killed in several different time periods and yet she miraculously keeps coming back to life? LOL

[@Yaapo]

Seriously First Contact and Endagme were it. No more. The writers: ah but in Star wars they did something something so we can do the same

[@cainabel6356]

The writers want to ruin a good thing, so they brought back the Borg Queen to get her to do the good thing. It went from "Resistance is futal" to "I will be your friend." This is the most idiotic thing I have ever seen.

[@epickithri]

​@Yaapo technically if you think about it so was Best of Both Worlds as they did show Locutus near the Borg Queen as a flashback in First Contact.

[@jeremy1860]

Briefly, at the end of an episode of the animated Lower Decks show, there was a scene set right in the future, and a Borg was seen among other Federation people as though it were one of them. It might be a stretch to say this, but maybe this is where that starts? 🤔

[@ManicPandaz]

Nope… it’s just that none of the writers are consistent and effectively every Nu Trek show exists in its own timeline.

[@joeyshears1483]

Lack of consistency is a risk when you have so many shows running concurrently they probably should have spaced them out a bit more, but in this case these details work well together intentional or not.

[@matthorn1710]

You gotta admit. Annie was amazing.

[@elijahroof1952]

Both Agnes and Jack showed that the time of the old Borg collective is over

[@somebodyfixmyinternet]

They literally defeated the borg with the power of friendship. And I didn't think they could butcher one of the coolest villains any more than voyager had. But this proved me wrong.

[@mysticmarble94]

I don't think the show did a good job. Especially in portraying a borg queen. The new actress seems far too human like in her behaviour. That aside tho ... Maybe it's good to even find somewhat of a conclusion ... even for the worst , or shall I say 'best' enemy in Star Trek. Maybe having the borg find a new way of being , a new purpose of finding perfection by seeking those who already have a similiar desire and would gladly help / become a part of the collective through assimilation.

[@somebodyfixmyinternet]

@@mysticmarble94 Imagine assimilating millions of cultures over millenia, integrating their personalities and technology. becoming this cold, unstoppable force whose only desire is constantly improve...only to change your ways because somebody offered friendship. It's an asinine plot decision and completely goes against everything the borg is. No, this is just another cloying development spawned from braindead minds.

[@mysticmarble94]

@@somebodyfixmyinternet So you would rather want the borg as a villian to remain an unbeatable monolith til the end of times. Even when Star Trek won't be around anymore to tell the / any conclusion to the borg menace. Got it 🤏

[@somebodyfixmyinternet]

@@mysticmarble94 Nice strawman you have there.

[@mysticmarble94]

@@somebodyfixmyinternet Your prior ( somehow deleted ) words .... "" just another cloying development from braindead minds "" I have no interest to argue with those kind of sentiments because clearly it will be pointless. So spare me the "strawman" claim.

[@Chobittsu]

An interesting concept, but they should keep the villain version of the Borg as a separate entity from this Borg Cooperative. The point of them is to embody the fears of technology, which, if current societal trends are anything to go by, are more important now than when the Borg first appeared onscreen. (Cept right now the biggest danger is your uncle's 3am Facebook rant about government drones hiding in your cereal) But at the same time, I see a LOT of people desperately trying to cling to the past versions of everything. The old Picard, the old Borg, Star Trek in general needs to stop relying on the old or they'll never gain a new audience. Star Trek Discovery yeeting themselves into the distant future was the smartest decision the writers made, getting themselves free and clear of any possible conflictions with the older media. Yeah this is gonna piss off a lot of fans, and I'm skeptical myself of how this will turn out, but Star Trek Picard has one final season, ten episodes, to retire the character of Picard once and for all, and to end on a high note. They gave Q a good end, though brief, it touched on the right emotions and finally gave the two characters some closure in their relationship. Now Picard has to find a way to end his career with one final bow of grace. Will the writers deliver? Will it be the next Rise of Skywalker and be a total trainwreck that derails a whole franchise? Tune in next year for the exciting conclusion! Same bat time, same bat channel!

[@nepntzerZer]

That would require talent, critical thinking skills, and a contemplative meditative reflection. Something these writers know absolutely nothing about. Ironic considering they are supposed to be writing for star trek.

[@LordSiravant]

In fairness, I think Jurati's collective is indeed separate from the main Borg collective. So the villainous Borg are still out there and still can pose a threat. (especially since they recently assimilated a race from Voyager with long-range teleportation technology that could SERIOUSLY endanger unprepared worlds.

[@ashleytrout7452]

In a way it is seperate, the delta quadrants borg would’ve continued to assimilate had any survived while Juratis’ grew in silence, recruiting from the broken and rebuilding something greater. And remember there are 5 other transwarp conduits in the galaxy, with queens of there own most likely. So the original borg are still there

[@absalomdraconis]

To throw away the past of a franchise is to misunderstand the purpose of a franchise. They exist to use that past that you're throwing away. Not all of it needs to be used, but the choice of what to use, what not to, and what to modify must be planned and limited, not ham-fisted and extreme.

[@LordExor]

Technically this is only an alternate timeline Borg Queen and not the one from the prime universe, who may or may not still exist after Endgame.

[@LordExor]

Man this was prescient wasn't it?

[@wj3186]

How is Seven not dead after being impaled like that? She's only been bleeding out for like an hour while Queen Jurati is in her thoughts.

[@rotorheadv8]

Those mental conversations can take place in only seconds.

[@cainabel6356]

Time works differently in your head. Think of Jurati as a super computer, which we do not have. It can come up with a single plan in a matter of mini-seconds. Then come out like no time has passed. Still, I hate this Picard. It takes all the canon of Star Trek and dumps gasoline on it, only to strike a match at the end.

[@steeltimberwolf]

The idea that the Borg are defeated in all timelines is laughable, probability alone demands this to be false. In TNG we know that the Borg defeat the Federation, this episode is Parallels. We know that the ONLY reason that the Borg didn't come to the Alpha quadrant and just conquer it is just distance. Sure the Borg have transwarp apertures that open in the Alpha and Beta quadrants but they have no way to return to the Delta quadrant except under normal warp. Also why didn't the Borg queen as soon as she started taking over Jurati create a Borg neural transceiver in order to completely supplant her personality? I mean it's designed to connect Borg Drones no matter the distance to the Collective, it is even able to connect between different dimensions. It's a bit sad to see how far the writers have taken the Borg from this horrible enemy to them being no more a bother then any other species.

[@HenningRogge]

Most likely the whole Borg strategy on assimilation and adaptation works well until you hit one enemy you lack the tools to adapt to (or an enemy who innovates faster than you can adapt) ... then you can just throw cubes at them and hope to kill them before they wipe you out. Pest control on a galactic level is a strong motivation.

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

Their defeat in all timelines has nothing...at all...to do with probability. It's a conditional statement. So long as specific conditions are satisfied, all of which have nothing to do with chance, they will (or won't) be defeated. Which does still mean that there would technically be realities out there where they aren't defeated (if there were other timelines at all, which there aren't), considering how things have typically gone, they'd be quite few in number. Considering there's only one absolutely titanic win condition for the Borg, but an almost limitless number of "losing" conditions, the odds far more favor that they'll lose more often than they'll win.

[@mikicerise6250]

That is the least silly thing about all this timey wimey nonsense. Someone really just needs to ban time travel plot devices.

[@matthewcromer5399]

You forget that they could assimilate humanity but still be defeated by a later enemy. The Federation doesn’t have to be the be all end all of the Borg. The Borg were still basically just an extraterrestrial race not an extragalactic one. Imagine even something along the lines of the Q but without any objection to simply snapping a finger and saying “enough” and make your who species go bye bye

[@Lorkanthal]

The problem is if you start dealing in infinite possible realities then no matter how small a probability something is it will happen. So there will be one where the borg actually manage to create and control omega molecules

[@kurtsnyder4752]

Rest in Peace Annie.

[@capnjackgallows3204]

Who's annie?

[@kurtsnyder4752]

@@capnjackgallows3204 Ms Wershing, the late Queen.

[@user-rj2ez9cp8b]

*Knock knock* -On screen. "Hi we are the new borg, you wont be assimilated, may we have a moment to speak to you about salvation?" .. "Hello?"

[@MrStitty26]

7of9 should have been the new queen to being the federation and Borg together.

[@mdmagnusson]

Turns out the Borg were really just a lonely misunderstood woman looking to fill a void in her heart... How is this show this bad? It shouldn't be possible to write something so monumentally stupid.

[@mdmagnusson]

@Dawson Davis I really doubt it's "just" me, but I'm glad you got your fanfic ending. I never liked the concept of the Borg having a queen nor the way Voyager completely neutered and watered down the Borg during its run. Every time they changed the Borg from the original cybernetic hivemind collective concept they just got less interesting.

[@timmd8766]

@@mdmagnusson I'm with you. The Borg collective as just simply a collective where there's no individuality, no ruler, no head of operations, they are all one and one is all, that's so much more alien and intriguing. They're a hivemind with goals and motivations too foreign for us to sympathise with or even begin to compromise on. The Borg is of one mind and it does not concern itself with input and objections from other species. You're either part of the Borg or will be part of the Borg. Start to give the Borg a queen, have her make all the decisions and even have her swayed by another individual and they might as well not be the Borg anymore. They're just another idividual tv-villain convinced to be good by a fancy speech by the hero, like we've never seen that before. In Voyager, bad as it might have been from time to time, they really did a great job with 7 of 9 having her struggle with her new-found individuality and the desire to go back to the collective. It made for some very interesting discussions and thoughts. The crew really kinda forced her to become an individual. She did not desire it from the start and you get to ask yourself if that's right or even desirable and why. So many interesting angles and perspectives storywise can be taken with the Borg. But I digress. Star Trek: Picard is rubbish.

[@TheTaskmaster]

writers of Batman and Robin, Transformers, Amazing Spiderman 2...

[@matthewscottshea]

Bad writing perhaps, but that has been my opinion of the Borg since watching First Contact. Not really a new idea. For the record, haven't watched the show (outside of YT clips) or defending it, just my opinion.

[@westmcgee9320]

@@mdmagnusson not “just you” but “just not for you”. That knee jerked too hard and too quickly.

[@c.r.chandler5905]

So this is the interesting question. Jurati becomes the Borg queen in THIS timeline but what happens when Picard and the rest of the crew goes back to their prime time? Is Elnor still alive? Is Jurati still the Borg queen? Interesting questions.....

[@SparkyP]

Nah no one cares.

[@sylvain75]

@@SparkyP Vive mon cul !

[@ThatElfNerd]

If things do reset where everyone ends up back where they started, it will be weird as there will be two Juratis. One as the queen, the other still human, with no recollection of the alternate timeline.

[@dmannouch]

I would say the timeline becomes even more screwed up as the borg had a major role in pushing the federation to be stronger leading in to the Dominion War

[@alexthomas3745]

And the answer is: "All this is totally nonsense."

[@AshtonCoolman]

Brent Spiner really should have had more villain roles in his career. He's so good at it.

[@user-qv8kq8rw5j]

I hate the way the Borg is portrayed here. They’re emotional and easily swayed by ethos, which is strange for a species that is so pragmatic and technological. I imagine how the interaction should have gone, is that the Borg queen would have considered a new collective from the perspective of almost infinite data and statistics, measurements and calculations, about the potential future results of such an agreement. Also, I imagine the Borg would base its bigger decisions by running simulations, and that it may have already ran a simulation of voluntary assimilation, but was waiting for the right time to allow for it.

[@michaelbaker103]

Anyone else disappointed they basically went with the power of friendship beats the Borg

[@xxlCortez]

I'm disappointed that saying a few lame words can somehow change entire worldviews in this show.

[@kaicreech7336]

@@xxlCortez ... You just described the climax of almost every episode of the original Star Trek and the next generation. And the original series definitely had worse episodes than this.

[@battleoid2411]

@@kaicreech7336 cool, this is still dogshit. Saying you smelled some other shit that was totally stinkier 30 years ago doesn't change the fact that you're looking at a pile of shit.

[@Dimmary]

@@kaicreech7336 you're totally wrong

[@kaicreech7336]

@@Dimmary Oh yeah, "Spock's Brain," was the real pinnacle of the franchise

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

Add “The Borg Queen and her resolve” to the list of characters that Agnes Jurarti assassinated…

[@sirrickardjameses]

#lockherup

[@frankthespank]

So the Borg queen likes the SOG Seal Team Elite, so do I, I have that and the “Seal Team Pup” 😎

[@edwebber679]

"Assistance is offered, your assimilation is salvation if you choose it."

[@Menconialex]

if the new Borg queen jurati replaces de Borg collective by a borg cooperative 400 years before with tech 400 years ahead wouldn't it disrupt timeline? if this borg queen convince the original borg queen wouldn't all borg events be affected both in tng and voy and for consequence picard? so the timeline from picard season 2 come from before Q changes in timeline wouldn't be different? even seven would not become seven if the borg were a cooperative instead of a collective. so we will and up on a third timeline. like kevin. but I would call it jurati or sirena timeline. so if there will be another timeline where discovery 32c fits in? prime timeline or jurati timeline?

[@taiwansivispacemparabellum9546]

I’d imagine Jurati Queen laying low for four hundred years, saving the broken inside the confederate timeline. Then crossing over timeline / reality to bridge the first episode, after Janeway destroyed all Borg in prime timeline ?

[@humangarbage6533]

This is show that forgets it killed its protagonist a season ago...there is 0 logic other than $$

[@epaminon6196]

The power of friendship is more important than time-line protection. The moment they freed two dozen illegal immigrants from being deported, the butterfly effect was in full swing. 24 people, getting to stay in the United States, probably. Marrying completely different women, siring completely different children who'll go on siring completely different children themselves... After 400 years of this snowball effect, the effects might be immeasurable.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

@@epaminon6196 Your assuming Confeds timeline is the same as the federations. Its not. There are some difference. Even Picard is picking up on this.

[@epaminon6196]

@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent I'd say that by traveling back in time and causing butterfly effect alterations, the Picard Comandos created a third timeline.

[@Horrormaster13]

So you telling me that the Borg Queen now wants to make peace with the Federation in the future just because a Computer Nerd gave her a 5 minute lecture about how the Borg, whether in a different universe or timeline, will always lose and it's never really about achieving absolute perfection through assimilation of billions species, but only because the Borg Queen felt lonely? And now Jurati and the Borg Queen want to join forces to create a new kind of Borg that are good? Are you f*cking kidding me?! Have those screenwriters completely lost their minds?!

[@Menconialex]

@Nicholas Millington makes sense but completely fucks the timeline. whatever you end up in the finale it will not be the original timeline. we can't ignore the changes of 400 years of changes in borg history. it completely affects all cannon events we already know. affects picard and seven directly. they will not be the same we know.

[@Menconialex]

if at least they come back to tje present before depart to delta quadrant it would be lass harmfull. we dont know much thing beyond picard s2 and discovery s3. so its ok to have that huge change in the borg. but how to do this such change with no conflict with past events from the cannon. its no way to consider the results of picard season 2 as prime timeline cannon. we will got a third timeline like kelvin. this new timeline would change a lot of events from tng picard and voyager. it could completely change the estate of the galaxy. we can also be able to fit discovery season 3 and 4 in this or in the prime timeline. but based on the words from disco s4 finale i would say that the borg is still a collective instead of a cooperative. unless we got two borg factions dividing borg power like in sto i would say that disco is from the prime timeline. picard season 3 probably will be set in this new jurati timeline.

[@Menconialex]

i agree that is ridiculous

[@TheNoybusiness]

It worked for Steven Universe with the Great Diamond Authority.

[@nsgamingallen1308]

@@TheNoybusiness To compare Star Trek and Steven Universe.

[@joshuawright9612]

I think i have an idea as to whom opened the large warp corridor - the evolved cybernetic lifeforms from the first season that the androids were trying to summon. They were going to wipe out all organic life and so since they could get the front door with the gate, they are now trying with the tunnel. - the new borg collective is now the co operative that was left in the delta sector.

[@steveg6978]

LOL.....the Borg Queen being played by a 1/2 human Borg Queen

[@MemoirsofaBasketcase]

I’d happily join the friendly Borg. I despise human existence but am too anxious of what comes after to out myself.

[@thomashenderson3901]

I'd get assimilated in a heartbeat. (Assuming they'd have me!)

[@jasonbarrett8589]

Move to Russia then !!!

[@thomashenderson3901]

@@jasonbarrett8589 Fuck that, I'd be off to far more interesting planets!

[@Amp661]

"Friendly Borg"......what a crock of shit. Yeah, go join them to get rid of all the fans who support this nonsense.

[@justifan]

FINALLY!!! Remember the first episode the Borg appeared in TNG, Guinan stated that it was possible to relate to the Borg eventually but it was too early. Then when Picard became Locutus who stated that the Borg wanted to improve the quality of life to those they encountered. There was always from the beginning some seed of something more the Borg could become, that they were just missing some element to their "culture" or "programming" that prevented them from associating with other races properly, in short, they were defective in their core "values". In defeat, and at the verge of her own death, the Borg queen finally was humbled by the fact and reality of her situation, and in that moment of monumental humility she was given the only chance that truly made any sense. FINALLY! FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS SINCE THE BORG FIRST APPEARED IN STAR TREK, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN EXPECTING, LONGING, AND WAITING FOR! :)

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

rest in peace, Annie.

[@jeffr9945]

Interesting fact: Voyager TV series. It was revealed that future borg tech DON'T assimilate, but takes a DNA sample then grows a baby from that. They were hinting that borg tatics had changed in the future.

[@rot_studios]

This is indeed the best scene. Considering that the rest of the season was the same empty faux-emotional drivel written by inexperienced hack writers lol

[@LSOK38]

If " in this or any other universe the ending is the same, you lose" why, in the episode "Parallels", was a fearful, disheveled, panicked Rhyker begging not to be sent back to his universe in which "the Borg are everywhere!" They obviously won in that universe!...OOPS!

[@alexgataric]

Species 8742 takes them out in that universe perhaps.

[@LSOK38]

​@@alexgataric Unless 8472 was defeated by the Borg in that timeline. That would explain how " the Borg are everywhere" as Rhykker said.

[@tombaker8132]

"Hi. I used to be sad and lonely. Now, I'm part of the Collective. I'm just one voice amongst many and we all say exactly the same thing, all the time. It's just like having friends....and all it took was having my eyeballs replaced with retinal imaging scanners!

[@unitedwithbritian]

Aaaahahahahaha!!! A speech made her have a miraculous change of heart!!! If I was the queen I would have made her my dog.

[@justindot4887]

dog stepped on a bee

[@ImperativeGames]

The problem with the Borg is that they are supposed to be transcended beings, even if corrupted ones. They have all thoughts of every members of their Collective - including thoughts about *The Power of Friendship!* You can't convince them with any arguments because they already considered them and discarded them. They *know* that Collective is better than alternatives and "the road to perfection". They are the result of evolution of sentience, even if we don't like this path. Even multiple medieval armies can't win over single modern army (aviation, artillery, radio). - Yes, after first few episodes in old shows they almost never came close to implementation of their idea. But this lines about friendship and making "true connections" would never work on anything remotely resembling the idea of Collective Superintelligence. - In fact, humanity won and eliminated all the other smart apes aka competitors because: 1) We were individually smarter - and almost no races in StarTrek actively improve themselves through gene editing or cyberimplants. Unlike Borgs. 2) We could create far larger, if less cohesive groups - thanks to memes like proto-religions, large tribe, godlike animal ancestor of the tribe/several tribes. Strength in numbers. The Borgs can create new members, use AI and act together, act like one far better than stock humans can. - So. In reality, the Borgs would be unstoppable and that's the problem. They *need* to lose so writers *have to* use some help from Deus Ex Machina: Borga are defeated with the help from benevolent benefactors from the future, advanced ancient races or inhabitants of other dimensions... or ridiculous plot holes like this one.

[@LordKrups]

Amen to that, but we need to appeal to the my little pony in everyone, because nuanced real world, thought provoking stories might hurt someone's safe space 😑

[@jrus690]

The problem with the Borg is that they were written to be a replacement enemy for the Federation, instead of a potential friend that could be talked to and given ST:TNG a different path than ST. The Borg could have been a way to bridge the gap between the humans and Q, like an upgraded version of the Vulcans, but instead they were made a corrupt warring race seeking to conquer. In Q Who? they were seeking out Federation technology, and they could have kids on their own, but that was all written out.

[@informedconsumer5293]

That whole argument on evolution is still conjecture, especially considering all new evidence on ancient civilizations

[@ChristopherG1990]

There is precedence that the original idea was to eventually make peace with the Borg. Hence the quote from Q, Who. Now how the og writers would’ve handled that, we may never know lol GUINAN: Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence

[@cairosilver2932]

I think that's looking at the Borg like they aren't founded on basic insecurities, the ones mentioned in the video

[@thegamingeconomist3831]

Imagine if Darth Vader handed in his red lightsaber and black cloak and started volunteering aboard a medical frigate. That's what the writers just did to Trek.

[@Fydron]

Borg already had the "soft" with the Cooperative and countless drones that had left the collective to join the borg rebellion and considering the collective is almost gone this choice would just be logical for the race that is determinate to survive. Personally i don't understand the moaning about the writing when the old writers already painted them selfs in the corner by adding Cooperative the rebellion, Queen and many other stuff that watered down the original Q who concept and that happened before most modern writers were even out of pre school. To me Borg as a villains were at their peak at Q who as faceless remorseless unstoppable enemy and still had teeth in best of both worlds but they totally lost their threath after they started to ad stuff like Hugh into the story and Voyager made Borg look like incompetent morons.

[@Eeeeeeee.eeeeeeee]

Well he kinda did. he looked at Luke's severed hand decided to murder his master in order to save his son.

[@panchoandthemule]

Jurati and the Borg Queen both gave each other what they each wanted and needed.

[@borninthedark7915]

If this is how they make the Caeliar canon, I'm for it.

[@FullCircleStories]

What people miss, even the explanations that demonstrate how this is a reasonable move for the Borg (be it in the franchise or in the plot) is that Star Trek is fundamentally a vision of a more hopeful future. A time when humans reach a utopia and spread that utopia out into the galaxy. What I have trouble with in Picard are the moments that run against that, that try and be gritty, and betray the foundation of the setting. But this? This is exactly what Star Trek is here for. To take the worst of the worst, the dystopias, and show how sometimes, and maybe more than we think, that dystopia can become a utopia.

[@jbuzzz]

I have never cried so hard at a single scene before. This is the death of Star Trek. She talked the Borg into having feelings within 2 minutes. Powerful stuff. I actually threw up. Very powerful

[@privatecitizen1246]

But you have to remember - THIS queen comes from a timeline where she is ALL THATS LEFT. Makes all things possible.

[@jbuzzz]

@@privatecitizen1246 star trek should be less about feelings and more about science and good writing

[@LordExor]

@@jbuzzz You mean Star Trek should be dry and soporific?

[@jbuzzz]

@@LordExor I mean poor writing is poor writing. Star Trek was always its own thing and doesn't need woke garbage woven into its story line to make it interesting. It was above that now its been recycled into something else much more lazily written entirely.

[@LordExor]

@@funkmystar How did the Borg go "woke?" They just gave the Borg Queen a poor redemption arc. That's it. It's not political.

[@GeffenAvraham]

What is the Borg's fundamental theorem? "Resistance is futile". Therefore, freedom is irrelevant, and choice is irrelevant. But resistance is NOT futile. The Federation has proven that again and again. As the Borg keep assimilating more and more people, eventually someone will not be too noble to press their kill switch and destroy the Collective. The Borg Queen in Picard lived through a timeline where the Federation did it and eliminated them. She knows resistance is not futile. That's why freedom and individuality are relevant. The fundamental theorem of the Borg is wrong, and relying it will lead to their annihilation. Agnes is right.

[@refulgent_fanta]

Agnes was indeed right.

[@2Scribble]

And on that day - the Borg Cooperative was born

[@thedrewdog]

I'm so glad I'm not a Star Trek fan, I'd be so heartbroken right now. I feel for all of you, and I am so sorry.

[@Beegeezy144]

I'm about to cry. This is so sad. I grew up on Star Trek, and this has to be the most pathetic garbage I've ever seen. I can't believe this is real. What a load of garbage.

[@TomUK737]

Ahh so the whole Borg Collective thing was just because the Queen was lonely, and can be overcome by being nice and kind and asking folk to join! If only Janeway knew! This is some real nuanced, thought provoking writing here! ...could someone please stop them r4ping my beloved Star Trek

[@hashtagPoundsign]

If the writers did watch any Star Trek, I can infer from this that they've only seen the Voyager episode "Muse" and thought Kelis the poet's first draft of "The rescue of B'Elanna Torres" needed more screen time.

[@illuminatethejuice2738]

Agreed this is bad fan fiction

[@RailroadEngineer123]

And now the basic unique foundation of what made the borg so cool is now destroyed....just sad.

[@PsiQ]

Yaaay, the borg are going televangelist now. Pickup the scrap and brainwash them to choose the right option.. for the borg.

[@jaimerodriguez8612]

You know, I thought Voyager turning the borg into Saturday morning cartoon villains they were trouncing every week was the absolute lowest point for them. But here we have the borg queen literally beaten by the power of friendship, because of course the Queen wasn't a ruthless leader in pursuit of perfection, she was just lonely. Yup, the millions of worlds assimilated, billions killed, all because her majesty was lonely. All of this may have been avoided if someone had thought to just buy her a puppy. Can someone just take Trek away from these hacks and lock it in a basement somewhere never to be touched by human hands ever again.

[@wkcia]

Nah this is a classic Borg trope, look at Hugh and Unimatrix Zero. I’m gonna give it a pass. What I’m not going to give this a pass on is that this took 10 freaking episodes. Come on guys, this was a 4 part episode, max. At least two more stories available for the season.

[@IsilmeTuruphant]

@@wkcia Time Travel episodes are where they travel to the 'modern day' (As opposed to some other era) are where the writers go when they've run out of ideas. Because doing that effectively kneecaps the whole mechanism of Star Trek - Using the distance of a far-flung future, a humanity that has solved most of its basic problems, and alien races to tackle modern social struggles by reframing them to get past the usual defensive responses and prejudices that surround those topics. They're good for a two-parter at BEST. Making a whole SEASON out of one required dumping a whole lot of other crap into the mix, which has kinda resulted in a confusion stew of a lot of dangling plot threads that all now have to magically resolve at the same time.

[@metaloverlord7465]

As a fan of My Little Pony all I can say is don't knock the power of Friendship.

[@beakwooda.k.aadregallus8788]

@@metaloverlord7465 Not even Chrysalis turned good, yet this show made someone, thousands of times worse than the bug Queen, change her mind. Pathetic.

[@johnwang9914]

You already have the Borg rebels that Blue created and the reactivated Borg collective that Chakotay was attached to. I see the Borg as a result of transhumanitism during the singularity, a result of when mobile communications integrates minds to minds and like the Cybermen of Dr. Who, there are multiple origins and multiple types of Borg with multiple priorities. There must be millions of Borg like civilizations in the Galaxy, many of them perhaps being pre-waro.

[@Predman1227]

Wow. Jurati had a Paragon moment.

[@moderusprime]

"Humanity" is such a small word. She convinced her to stop destroying entire civilizations, consisting of countless species.