BREWING CEDH SITUATIONS - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

Dylan and Cam talk about how they brew decks in cEDH and go discuss their thoughts on several common cEDH situations.
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[@joshbarr810]

Just as a heads up, there is a button on moxfield that adds cedh staples so that you can make a skeleton real quick. That way you don't have to add sol ring, then add mana crypt. Real convenient.

[@mrbelbobaggins8959]

Whoever bids the lowest or tied doesn’t wheel. Everyone else does. Whoever bids the highest loses that much life.

[@theatog]

honestly i don't understand the hate for this card. It's just original wheel with "opt out" option. Here is the situation I feel most commonly happen: - Someone didn't want to wheel. Then all you need is to bid 1 life. It's only bad when: - Everyone else in the table wants to wheel - Everyone else in the table DON'T want YOU to wheel (and you are also low in life?)

[@eternaleclypse]

To clarify: - Pick or tie with the highest number = take damage and wheel - Pick or tie with lowest number = no wheel - In between highest and lowest= no damage, just wheel - Everyone ties = Everyone takes damage, and no one wheels

[@therealax6]

@@theatog I'd say it's bad here because you can't use it offensively (to make someone discard their win condition or something) and because you can't use it at low life. Both seem like CEDH-specific scenarios to me.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I think the point we didn’t stress enough is your opponents can make you NOT wheel. You can cast 3 mana to not only do nothing, but another opponent who wants to where might be able to.

[@jonlamoreaux1889]

​@@PlaytoWinMTG exactly, too many variables for a cedh list

[@xXCigarXx]

I like the cedh situation segment. That really should be a regular thing.

the cEDH situation section was pure gold

[@timtauber5557]

More Cedh situations like bullying a player to make the play you want them to make so you can save your interaction

[@andrewfisher1849]

Dylan talking about your casual decks really makes me want a video dedicated to them!

[@timtauber5557]

Also as far as brewing decks. You could talk about outdated decks that no one plays anymore, that need to be revisited due to many new cards entering the card pool that could make that deck viable again

[@timtauber5557]

Examples could include Gaddock Teeg, Azami, lady of scrolls, Baral, chief of compliance, Eight and a half tails, Deretti, scrap savant. There are many commanders from the past that could be updated.

[@TNDNBTG]

Make Meren Tier 1 again 😢😢😢

[@justinstraz8572]

Would love to hear more about those casual decks you have. Know this is a cEDH podcast, but you can tell you put time and energy into those brews...would love to see them!

[@SirBaldy1026]

If I'm not mistaken on Wheel of Misfortune, the only person who doesn't wheel are those that choose the lowest life total. So if 3 people choose 0 and one person chooses 1 then the only person that would wheel is the one who chose 1 while the other 3 wouldn't wheel. It states that only the person/persons that choose the lowest life won't wheel.

[@ozirus3344]

I guess their scenario still holds - the table could agree to bid over you. But I would be paranoid of not bidding 0 if I had Force in my hand to stop whatever you’re about to dig for. I see both sides of the argument, especially in the Ad Naus situation (you already paid 3 to draw it).

[@turnugin5645]

First Chain Food Sliver goes hard as fuck

[@Ian-cox]

Super fun to watch the boys talk through situations. Hope to watch/listen to lots more situations in the future

[@faperito2389]

Please keep these going, I love them. Perfect.

[@dancer6452]

I love the cedh situations segment, I think having it as a regular part of the podcast will be SUPER helpful to improving not only mine but others gameplay and decision making skills

[@salthekato]

So glad you guys came back to this format . Love it, keep it up.

[@Lilfluffygoofball87]

I love play to win podcast 👍

[@lawlanify]

Such a good, refreshing take on cEDH that makes it seem so much less scary. It's commander as I love it but higher into the efficiency and what I want to get myself closer to as someone new to the game wanting to learn a competitive approach to the game

[@joelprive3458]

I love how this video turned out , would be amazing if you did the same formula with other Brewers ! My personal favorite is Pongo

[@rafael3646]

loving the more frequent videos!

[@___MTG___]

Its nice to hear some love for casual, maybe a future podcast episode about casual decks you play and your casual philosophy

[@TripsAhoy]

Yes def good topics. Like seeing more of this.

[@drpepper998]

I liked the video. When I brew I like to try to do something different and not just netdeck. I'll look at several deck lists and see what they have in common between them and then what is different. This is where I'll start from. Then I'll do my take on what the commander provides use some of the cards from both of these pool of cards to fleash out the deck. Once I'm at 100, then I go through and try to make it as efficient as I can in what I'm trying to do with the commander.

[@elDetroiyt]

Nice, I've waiting for this podcast

[@ingolf82]

my process of building high power decks is the same as Dylans. I take a cEDH list from the database, take out all the 100+ $ cards, sometimes even the 50+ $ cards, add in budget alternatives and thats how I arrive at my high power lists. like in my Temur Pirates list. I took the list you guys play, took out force of will, mox diamond, jeweled lotus, and the OG duals and added 3 more lands in instead of the mana rocks (so up to 30 instead of 27), I added in things like "long term plans", which, with brainstorm can fetch me Glint-horn to my hand. that is basically my process for building high-powered decks. I dumb down a cEDH list slightly, like, I added Tooth and nail, the locust god, sage of the falls and a Kozilek, Buther of truth to my Temur pirates deck as an alternative win con. You can cast tooth and nail turn 1, even on a budget, then you fetch the locust god and Sage of the falls and it goes infinite with Kozilek in the library, and then you have infinite locusts with haste and attack for lethal. Ikra-Bruse is just fun right? it's like, Doran the siege tower + red. big butts matter, but yeah, I can see why it's no a good cEDH list.

[@vladahermansky710]

nice great video guys thx but honestly i would like to hear Dylan tell us more about his Edh fun decks Cameron too for sure the Raffiq swords really got my attention

[@DaxVerus]

Bouncing tymna off thrasios is always the right play if you play adnaus. Also, the last 5 minutes is proof at the energy you guys bring. Keep up the great videos!

[@Bobbeloud]

Interesting talk about Tymna getting better/worse simultaneously. I felt the same way about Malcolm when Hullbreacher got banned. Was really sad to lose a great pirate out of that deck but then I immediately noticed that the deck was WAY better without 3 other potential Hullbreachers at the table that could all shut off the Glint-Horn combo. Cool podcast!

[@Theorak]

The bigger question with fish is, when to play it. With a stax deck, I've often had it turn one, did not draw any cards and lost mana on it, while the other decks are creature based and not minding starting a few turns later if I can't follow up with another draw engine. Fish on turn two so much better, the opponents actually start to think about it.

[@briceaxner5599]

So prologue to phyresis and Krark thousand faces is just something else but lose the videos just became a Patreon so looking forward to even more videos to watch

[@Putrefax]

If you can cast a spell 10 times with Krarks out, then you should have already won the game instead of just poisoned one person. Card is meh at best.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Each opponent gets the poison counter! Though your point still stands

[@shinleal]

The CEDH situation migh be called CEDH SCENARIOS, or CEDH Play Analysis... GLad to see the podcast come back..

[@TheSpunYarn]

"First Slivir Food Chain" is a great vocal warmup imo

[@aidanschauer1581]

As a dad first and cEDH player second, I 💯 do the Dylan approach to pick an archetype and add/remove 15ish cards

[@Racnive]

Regarding opponents' input: Your opponents are a resource. If you're having trouble understanding someone's combo line, where to interact, or evaluating threats, ask the other opponents! Obviously don't just do what they say blindly without evaluating it yourself, but *sometimes* "the enemy of your enemy is your friend." This is especially relevant if you're new to cEDH.

[@ThaCardSlinga]

The discussion on fish and Rhystic was very interesting. I think pod competition dictates how dangerous those cards are. Those cards are not nearly as dangerous in Stax pods, as those decks are mostly creature based, slow the pace of card actions down, and tend to run mana creatures that bypass or help pay the tax. Excellent discussion.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thanks!

[@NeonXprime]

Facts I remember I played a slow stax pod I got fish on turn 1 My opponents decided to not play anything until turn 3

[@lucascoutinho2441]

My take on politicking is the other players can present you new information which changes your decision. Your individual plan can mildy increase your win chance while the two player plan can increase the win chance for both players more significantly. If there's no new information/relevant reminder it's better to stick to your original plan that doesn't have the other players bias.

[@aidansawyer5394]

First chain food sliver is actually a good name for the deck

[@vaevictis934]

Question about when to scoop. If you've tried to win and been stopped in a bad way, for example world gorger exiling all permanents, would you scoop then or start from nothing and keep trying? Is that a 1%?

[@thetokenasian77]

Do you guys proxy all your cards? Or just proxy cards you already own?

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

I'd love your thoughts on my food chain brew because it's not the typical blue black green food chain but I love that I have like 5 lines it can win with

[@ethantroxel1036]

24:21 that look Dylan gave into the camera caught me off guard

[@tonyvillalta4487]

Watching you guys makes me want to get into cEDH but I’m too scrub to know how or where to start

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Watching content is a GREAT place to start!

[@Vyse86]

Which database are you looking at for cEDH decks? I'd love to proxy a deck to get into the format. Great content as always!

[@simonp4832]

Google the cedh decklist database 👍🏾

[@dewrules235]

I don’t play cEDH. I’m just here for shenanigans.

[@Fogshaper]

why would i ever want to cast a wheel of misfortune after i've resolved my ad nauseam though? the reason to play wheel of misfortune is to dump your opener and then cast wheel of misfortune. the chances that nobody or almost nobody wants to wheel are high and you'll usually get away with paying 2-3 life. it's a lot worse than twister, windfall, and wheel of fortune but if you're in rakdos (like, rog/tevesh, prosper) i think you want wheel of misfortune in your deck.

[@bdrsescanor6804]

If you dont score, I wont, well ok, "heres the ball 🤣

[@timhellum5587]

I built yuriko. And love it but I want to find a creature based strategy and in was think of trying henzie tool box

[@SeriosSkies92]

wheel of misfortune isnt about wheeling your opponents. its about wheeling YOU after you drop your hand. But even then i also cut it like 95% of the time. Tymna/Jeska was the most recent place i liked it. but that stems from mardu's weaknesses, not misfortunes strengths.

[@alecsweatpants1130]

Great, now I can say “Play To Win told me to not listen to my friends” when I sit down at a table. Perfect excuse to blow their things up

[@addicted2SODA1]

How down on aAutumn's Veil are you? Do you think it deserves a cut from something like ukkima food chain? Is offer just better?

[@official_uhu]

mind sharing your casual decklists?

[@BionMTG]

I will always have one cedh list for when my group wants to play at that level. By in large we play theme decks as strong as they can be built (without the fast mana rocks, and open tutors). Specific tutors are fine, but D Tutor, and just open ones remove the variance. Brewing in that format lets you hit up scryfall and dig out the obscure cards that are on theme. Googling cards that have X or Y in the art, etc. cedh is fun, but it is not really a brewers format imo. a majority of the decks are 95% built as soon as you pick the commander / how it wins. You do have a few flex, pick your pet cards, like cutting wheel of misfortune (which i agree with). I dont like pita in an ad naus list, but weirdly you see them together on occasion, but damn, that is the bad feels to hit that when flipping for ad nause. haha

[@Highwang]

So is cEDH scenarios gonna be a segment now? I personally have two that i’d like to ask about.

[@salchi-papa]

I'd love to know the banlist you have set up for casual decks you build @Dylan.

[@connorbell5340]

Go check out his moxfield and his casual decklists it's in there!

[@salchi-papa]

@@connorbell5340 Oh that's so good to see

[@MexcanNinja]

I would say even when building Cedh eventually at least 30-40 cards are going to all be the same. Just due to control, ramp, and creature base. i wouls day20-30 cards are what makes the difference for sure.

[@Disorbex]

You guys talked a-lot about wheel of misfortune being a bad card. What about it being in a mono red with like Godo or other commanders? Is it still bad in mono red?

[@w4tch0ut10]

I play it in a mono red stax Daretti list. But it's debatable how much "c" really is in that EDH deck 😁 At least, it's not seen a truly competitive in comparison to other decks. But it's definitely great in that list.

[@johnreyes5276]

best podcast lol

[@toonvanzijl2351]

I thought your patron asked about brewing for non-edh formats... Still love the podcast obviously 😉

[@cesarayma7320]

More P2W podcast episodes, fuck me up 😩 Thanks y'all for putting out amazing content

[@anthonymarciano6050]

I really want you to name the deck 'Food sliver first chain'

[@nickdemichele5269]

This makes me want to draft cedh Take a pod and have them draft the 100 the only things that each person can have multiple of is basics everything else is drafted and see what brews people come up with After the draft you could trade cards out with all the other cards that went un drafted

[@therealax6]

What would your draft pool be? I assume this would be a cube format of sorts.

[@nickdemichele5269]

@@therealax6 no just a one copy of each card in mtg. Would be interesting what people would prioritize. Interaction, fast mana, or even mana fixing I have no clue if it would be good, but would be interesting to see it play out

[@robertschumann6960]

The politicking topic was super interesting. I always hope people are helping me with lines but there are times people use politics to try and win in cedh and I'll try just play my deck as best as possible

[@MattViviani]

I find it weird to hear you guys say in the same podcast “I save my counters for win conditions” and “I don’t ever play Spellsnare.” The 3 big win cons in CEDH are MV 2, and there are plenty of other targets.

[@HughMurphy395]

I feel like WoM is only essential for Mono-red builds.

[@jean-paulbascelli1078]

I think the honest hindrance to brewing is staples/win cons. In a brutally efficient format like Cedh, I don't think there is a ton of room for innovation. Yes, out-of-the-box decks like the Rakdos deck that made a recent appearance are possible, however, not the norm. Cedh is predominantly hemogenized, so you're typically going to be playing against the same swath of staples, regardless of the Commander. It's just the way Cedh is by its nature since playing the best, most efficient cards and strategies is the core of the format. Sure, you can brew to your hearts content, but the staples aren't going anywhere unless new and more busted cards enter the format.

[@faperito2389]

I think that there's a pretty good amount of innovation and variations and new cards finding homes. Though I agree with you regarding the rest of your comment.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

That is the case for any established card game / meta. Knowing what to expect to play against is the good part. Knowing what to play around is the good part. There are still tons of new things happening all the time just more nuanced

[@faperito2389]

@@PlaytoWinMTG hard agree here

[@spencerghattas8185]

Wheel of misfortune claims two more victims

[@smolclips5996]

The politics part is so true. Have a friend who does it at my lgs and convinces people to kill me all the time. Some people just don't know how to take politics lol

[@SqueezeBurger]

This is just a low key way for Cam to ask Dylan, how do I git gud?

[@kylemordaunt1896]

berserk books???

[@SylveonSimp]

man, where is Tyler :(

[@toonvanzijl2351]

About Cameron's win rate with Ikra/Bruse: 2/11 is statistically not different from average. If it is 2 out of 11, it is 25%. Not literally, but neither would 3 out of 11 be. Even if Cam meant 2 out of 13 games, mathematically average win rate should be 3 in 13. If you take into account that there is always variance, 2 is not statistically different from 3 with such a small sample size. This is a general problem with brewing to win (which i assume you're doing in cedh) for commander: your win rate is average at 25% and you need to play an enormous amount of games to see if your win rate is actually higher or lower. Cameron actually mentions games off camera that he won, rather than saying he lost even more of those. Memory bias could put a 70% lose rate into a feeling that the deck struggles. It is too easy to feel that your deck is not performing well, when you're only looking at win rate.

[@kylarcheng1346]

Food sliver first change looooooooooooooooooooool

[@swoppydo3794]

So you're telling me that brewing in cEDH is the same as professional software development?

[@rickvance5197]

What sport is Dylan talking about where it is 4 different sides playing to win at the same time that analogy doesnt really work at all.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Like nascar. Or any race

[@ashleyfernandes3094]

maybe u end the podcast the way you start things with "BEGIN" with saying " THE END"? just and idea to try

[@TheRealLachlan]

Just thought of a podcast topic. Decklist brewing and AI. Can AI 'solve' cedh? Does it rob us of part of the hobby? Reduce viable deck lists? Would like to hear your thoughts.

[@heirkaiba]

LetThemCook.