Can young Black women get real love without the struggle? | Black Women's Business

[@ForHarriet619]

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[@The_House_Velaryon]

There are a lot of black women that look at men as a means to an end or as a inconvenience circumstance to get what they need from. The biggest issue is ego. The second thing that I noticed is a cynical and somewhat sarcastic knee-jerk reaction towards any perceived imperfection in a man there is far too much focus on the negativity negativity negativity

[@candlesandcarnage]

I'm glad that it was brought up that community is a privilege. Some of us do not have parents or family who is able to be a community in a helpful way. Not having community makes choosing a partner an even harder choice.

[@pnicelouis1610]

The quality of the families around you creates the community. It starts with committed and selfless relationships.

[@b_b_b5146]

Agreed. The lack of a supportive healthy compassionate community makes finding a good mate even harden or even impossible, sometimes.

[@knowvilleknows1075]

This is the reality for a lot of mixed black people. They are not accepted in black spaces, yet they live the black experience

[@oihcam22]

@@knowvilleknows1075plenty of them also don’t live the Black experience

[@knowvilleknows1075]

@@oihcam22 that is only if they are completely white passing. Most are not

[@JoiDior]

I was just like Keena. I had never been in a relationship, never been in love. I graduated with my PhD and felt like the obligatory next step was to get married. Having a Nigerian background, I was not allowed to date. So like B, I modeled love around what I saw on tv and had no idea what to look for in a partner. Long story short I married the next guy that came along, not knowing much about what I wanted and would tolerate (due to a lack of dating experience). Divorced after 3 years; now I’m a single mom. My advice is just to be sure to know yourself, don’t ignore red flags, and do what makes you happy. Don’t be ashamed of not having been in a serious relationship at a particular age.

[@sindiswamakate1174]

Busisiwe sent me on a ride. I had hectic cringe moments, also moments of agreeing with her. I was nervous each time sis spoke. I recognise that this is a me problem. As a Southy 🇿🇦 30 something, professional and single, I understand the frustration with SA men. We exist in a violent country with the backdrop of high gender based violence with African cultures that are deeply patriarchal also worldly enough to adopt western macho politics while still being disinfrachised by racism. There’s a lot of tension between men and women in my country that is unique to us.

[@pinkharts20]

This! Thank you for this perspective. Whew!

[@mariamidrisaden9529]

Is it me or does she seem a bit drunk?

[@twentysvn]

@@mariamidrisaden9529 just excited I think

[@christinefaulk6531]

Yes, I could feel her pain and frustration.

[@icomeinpeace3756]

South African men, Nigerian men, Jamaican men, Haitian men, Black American men, it seems all these men are terrible and it's not even like they really want you all...why do you guys continue to want them?

[@nia2111]

The love between Randall & Beth from This Is Us is a great example of a very healthy, nurturing and authentic black relationship that you see mature over the seasons.

[@essencemitchell5025]

that's a good one!

[@millyh4660]

Finding a love without struggle in your 20’s is an anomaly. The struggle is REAL early on because most folks are trying to figure out life and barely know who they are. I think the most successful relationships can come later in life after you’ve kissed the frogs and have a solid sense of self.

[@darkskinwoman]

Oh dear, hate to be the one to tell you but, it gets worse as you get older. That is false hope created to bait you to keep engaging with subpar men.

[@WrightwayFT]

If you kiss to many frogs you end up with tadpoles Lol better get you a nice boring guy or be a baby mama

[@darkskinwoman]

@@WrightwayFT sorry to tell you but boring guys can be sub par too.

[@WrightwayFT]

@@darkskinwoman I guess Baby mama whore is the only option for BW

[@darkskinwoman]

@@WrightwayFT This is who they become ladies. The best response is no response but I'm choosing to use him as an example. What he came here for is your energy, your angst, your trauma response. Since he has no source of joy within, he feeds on the negative emotion he provokes from you. The best thing to do is ignore him and starve him. It drives them MAD and powerless. If you must respond, talk about them, not to them.

[@msnewsenior]

I loved the analysis on Love and Basketball. I never thought Monica and Quincy should’ve ended up together. He never chose her but she kept choosing him, in high school he went to prom with another girl but Monica slept with him. In college Quincy cheated on her and dumped her and post college he got engaged to someone else yet she was still pinning for him.

[@DosesOfZia]

I agree. As an adult, I now hate how Monica was treated in every chapter of their lives but kept pursuing him.

[@Silly_u1908]

I’m so happy to see your comment. You said it the way I wanted my inner six year old self to vocalize. I have always hated the romanticism of Quincy and Monica’s relationship as of being settled for by a man is a romantic aspiration.

[@ellewoods9396]

Yes, that movie always made my skin crawl. Especially because I have never been attracted to black males or their gross culture. I'm a "The Notebook" type of girl. I never had problems dating because I never dated black males. My husband of 15 years is White and manhood comes naturally.

[@nicolem2877]

Only time she stood up for herself was going back to the dorm to make curfew so she cld start. 🏀

[@So-what692]

I agree he wanted to be with her after he got injured and had no chance of being a NBA player. I wonder if he would have doubled back if that didn’t happen. However I think it’s also true that there always going to be someone in the relationship who may love harder and more. I believe the only way for a relationship to last is for the man to love the woman more ( for lack of a better word).

[@thelovelykimmi7920]

It dawned on me that I've been in love and have worked like a slave to keep a relationship together but idk what it feels like to BE LOVED. I remember crying to my ex saying that I just wanted to feel like he valued me, cherished me...hell, even liked me. I wanted to feel some of the nurturing and emotional security that I was constantly giving. I've given up on dating since then. It's been freeing yet very discouraging because I've been abused so much. I'm now 35.

[@Communistkittens]

Try looking up anxious attachment. It’s seems like you just need to be emotionally available for yourself.

[@themostbeautifulisraw4561]

❤❤❤

[@anonymousone9699]

I’m so sorry for that experience. You are not alone.

[@rockfresh1993]

You're so perfect you bw kill me with that blame men for everything mentality

[@shethewriter]

This is so refreshing there are so many of us who spend our twenties alone and it’s so isolating sometimes, not even just being alone, but knowing that you’re alone in your experience.

[@jjamerican93]

Yes! I used to feel so embarrassed spending virtually all of my 20s single. But as I approach 30, I’m just glad to still be here. One day at a time.

[@anonymousone9699]

Most of my girlfriends are currently single. Most have never had a romantic relationship. We are all approaching our mid to late 20s. When we talk, some seem to think this way, but you are wrong. Most women around our age aren’t dating as much. Already, just in my friend groups, a good 95% are single and have never been in relationships or slept with anyone and they think they are alone in their experience. It’s sometimes lonely to be single, to have no stories to tell, but as annoying as this sounds, cherish your singleness. It’s a freedom. You get to grow, fail, win, change your mind, and have no one to answer to or slow down for. Or move your pace faster for. But one thing is, you are definitely wrong about being alone in your experience. I think we have to talk to each other more about the experiences or the lack thereof. Maybe that will help with the feeling of isolation. Desiring relationships is fine, but if you can, don’t rush yourself or beat yourself up if you don’t seem to get into one. Keep enjoying your own self evolution

[@engineeringbookisha]

As a 22 year old, I took a lot from this video but the most vivid thing is that I am so incredibly grateful that Kimberly exists on the Internet. Honestly I didn't even realize how much her empathy and compassion and perspective was such a comfort to me and I have learned so much and felt so safe watching her videos and with all the voices in this video he voice was my favorite

[@yujuy.1329]

My issue with her is she still insists on Only dating bm. That’s not the right approach. Make sure to open you options.

[@khlikb8796]

As someone who has been partnered for 8+ years & married, I would have loved to hear a perspective from another woman in a long term relationship (5+ years). If you’re in your 20s in a long term relationship, you’re often left out of these relationship conversation because a lot of people are so focused on becoming partnered. Its very interesting how we idealize or fantasize partnerships or community, but we don’t have many conversations on how to maintain it or navigate conflict. I’d go as far to say that partnering or falling in love is easy….maintaining a healthy relationship with boundaries across a significant amount of time is challenging, but can be rewarding (at times even sobering). I overall Loved this panel & all the women on it!! Definitely looking forward to continuing this conversation ❤

[@thejasminediaz]

That part. I got married at 20 and now at 40, I look back and wonder how I made it without learning conflict management from someone. It was through trial and error, but we are still here...married with child. It was hard though. More discussion is needed on how to keep a relationship

[@khlikb8796]

@@thejasminediaz I agree! My husband & I have been together since we were 18. We dated for 7 years & have been married for 1, it’s definitely a different dynamic with new & rewarding challenges. I’ve found that you can meet “the one” but not have the tools or boundaries to make it work/keep it healthy. We too learned through trial & error, but I think more conversations about actual relationships & the complex self-work that goes into being in a long term partnership is desperately needed, especially those who desire to be partnered in the future.

[@ninagrace-lee8323]

I’m in a long term relationship and it’s been great but still hard. He really does love me and treats me so well. But it’s interesting being young and navigating your identity and finding a place in the world. Both of us are building our careers and trying to be our best selves by going to therapy. A challenge has been letting go of society’s patriarchal conditioning though, because neither of us are established. I really wish we had the stability I crave but that won’t come until later. Puts a strain on the relationship if I’m being honest. But if there’s anyone I’d go on this journey with, it’s him no doubt

[@whenyouwishuponastar6643]

Such a good point. I’m late twenties and married and our relationship is good and it’s healthy but we still have challenges, finding someone is just part 1. You still have a lifetime of making it work. It’s not just finding someone that is the work.

[@Heyu7her3]

Well, that was the point of "Black Love" the show. While it was authentic, a lot of people didn't care for it (not including me) .

[@aleashamason8497]

Until recently I realized I was groomed/taught to be successful enough to be able to pick up the slack for my future husband AND know how to cook and take care of a husband/household and family on top of that. I saw my role as secondary and him as the prize.

[@itssawida]

This!!!

[@altairolp1557]

Have you asked why you view yourself as secondary and him as the prize? And discovered the root cause. What you described is called being an adult in today's society. A man doesn't need you to take care of him if he's been doing it himself before meeting you. If you want a family, then yes work together for the betterment of the children. This sentiment expresses laziness.

[@aleashamason8497]

@@altairolp1557 Hon I'm a grown arse educated woman. I fully understand it was a horrible mindset that many women of previous generations were dragged through. All that stopped when she saw me putting myself through college and doing all the things NO MAN has ever done for her. I got it on my own b/c the manboys couldn't keep up and still aren't motivated to... Hiding behind weak excuses. I am the prize Hon. Always will be.

[@naturegirl8089]

18:32 and I think the sad truth is how so many of us black women have been abused and hurt and manipulated by young men early on and so by the time we’re older, we’ve been burned so badly by our own men, that we no longer have that desire and I think men are never really held accountable for the destruction of our emotional & psychological wellbeing, so women take accountability for this abuse and it’s destruction of our feminine essences and when this happens, we genuinely no longer believe or desire a relationship with a man.

[@Booksngoodlooks]

@@B1234-xi4dlyes! You’re young you’re on the right track! You don’t have to go through all the drama. Keep loving yourself mama! Best of luck. Much love.

[@andilemashile7756]

Honestly....im hearing B's chat about black women needing to be more selfish in their desires😂 it seems black women are doing all this work to be better people and partners while their male counterparts are not committed to doing the same.

[@og1881]

This, I didn't receive B's message in a sinister way either.. it was permission to be the main character in your life and stand in it.. rather than constantly being overlooked or sidestep for anything else otherwise especially for Black Women.

[@yujuy.1329]

Yes plz be more selfish. Stop trying to save ppl especially other men (idc what race)

[@TwoPrettyRedDimes]

Very true that's why bw need to open up there options,heal and move on and never look back at the menz in the community enough is enough!

[@mimiandy1683]

In my opinion, the concept of gaining female viewership is the main objective for these manosphere, talking-heads. They know men aren’t interested in gaining guidance and advice from other men about love and relationships.

[@qweenlina930]

I think that before one enters the dating world you have to REALLY be in tune with yourself… I’m 27 and have dated three guys…never loved a single one of them…I think I liked the idea of not being single because that’s what I thought I was supposed to be striving for…if I could take it all back I’d of stayed single and minded my own damn business 😂…it’s better to understand yourself and what you need (or don’t need) from a future partner. Or if you just wanna be single out in these streets. I personally have learned I thrive as a single woman…and unless I find someone who is in the same phase of life as me who isn’t emotionally damaged and looking for a replacement mom I’m okay with being solo dolo and nothing is wrong with that 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@TAG010]

Offering this in case its helpful. I’ve been in a serious relationship (now married) since I was 25 and he was 23. Our biggest struggle was finishing school, getting into our careers and ultimately, starting a life together. I would say the biggest thing I did early on was embrace “imperfection” and let go of mainstream. He isn’t the tallest guy (hes still fine),he didn’t get into his dream job until he was 31, but he’s always prioritized me, both of our health, still being bougie on a budget, and connection. I’m by no means settling but I did wait for him- and he waited for me. No struggle love here. It exists. ❤

[@malakcanvas]

That's growth and building a life together. 🌱❤

[@abundance6484]

I appreciate this conversation. I must say that dating in the black community is a struggle. Honestly, black males don't show up as functional men, baseline prerequisites, add to that a relationship where you have to respect, problem solve and exemplify love, it's a no for me.

[@yujuy.1329]

Good cuz I don’t see the point in dating them either. It’s such a huge risk!! BW don’t benefit from being married to bm. That is what the data says.

[@altairolp1557]

Wait, so respect in a relationship is a bad thing or am I reading it wrong.

[@Inny_]

As someone who has grown up in a majority black country the majority of us just have love.... I have seen amazing marriages around me and with the people close to me. Struggle love is not something I can even think of for myself because I am not familiar with it.

[@invisiblerevolution]

Agree.... people OVER HYPE the numbers, of Black people in struggle love relationships.

[@chrisharris2367]

@@invisiblerevolution it’s perspective I am looking at the westernized view of love where a man is totally faithful and dedicated and courting the woman I haven’t seen much of that in black marriages or relationships What I see is the black woman put it a role of servitude and submission and that’s called loved While other races of women are treated as valuable equals in their relationships are courted bought gifts provided for without having to mule or ride or die What black women put up with no other woman from other races would dare to tolerate

[@invisiblerevolution]

@@chrisharris2367 It's the year 2022... You think BW are in forced *servitude & submissive* relationships?????

[@invisiblerevolution]

@@chrisharris2367 *"Women from other races are treated as valuable equals and are provided with gifts."* Soooo.... why are so many WW and other countries, havin women's marches?

[@RachelSeun]

I was just saying this to myself the other day! Not in relation to this topic per say but if I’m totally honest, there are times whereby I listen to black women commentary and can’t always relate to their struggle.

[@namegirl28]

I do write content for black women but I’m just grateful to be a young black girl with high self esteem and a strong self concept. I know I can get what I want, I’m open to all races of men and will not internalise the negative narratives that paralyse BW. I don’t blame every negative experience I have on my race and I love being a BW, and that’s that.

[@watchyamouth22]

Love this!

[@KeepItInLaLaLand]

I think there's a difference between trials in a relationship (normal) vs being dang near destroyed and having to deal with the "Black love struggle). That difference doesn't seem highlighted during that part of the discussion, but is really important

[@tondaniraluswinga2590]

Black love in itself is definitely struggle love. Why isn't even called that? Why cant it just be love? I am tired of being black.

[@cutielovemb]

I would love a conversation more about community that part really stuck with me the most. As someone of the Gen Z generation who didn’t grow up with a huge community or at least separated from my community because of moving. A lot of the community I had to make for myself was online and although it makes you feel less alone, having community that’s around you is so different. I do think the pandemic has increased my need for community or that real connection with people around me.

[@pursuitofnatural]

Seconded

[@sersabio3401]

Currently on this wave of trying to join form community too! Many of my friends are scattered because of me moving and don't know each other. Pre-pandemic relationships over the phone or online were enough, but since then I realized I have been really craving spending time with people in person, and how much more fulfilled I feel after those interactions.

[@dari4303]

I wish For Harriet was on spotify so I can listen while I'm at work lol.

[@DnewNancy]

Girl Ion care I have it playing in the corner of my computer with my headphones in

[@adarateranroldan]

@@DnewNancy Don't mess your money up 🤣

[@wearenotpoetsx]

I enjoyed this conversation. It's always interesting to me to find out how many women actually haven't been in relationships or dated when it's been pushed in our faces that something is wrong with you if this is the case.

[@Lavenderluvsbooks]

This conversation is soooooo important! I am like sending this to everyone black especially in my 90s-2000s generation. I have said all the time I do not have many good examples of love that I got to a point where I was fine with being alone. Now experiencing a fulfilling situation I am taking it slow. I want kids before my late 30s to have the energy for kids but I am okay with single parenthood it that is my journey. I learn more about healthy love from friends even though nothing is perfect. Therapy is very helpful to me. I am only 22 but feel so tired by the world that I would rather be happy than settle in misery. Queen latifah line in the Secret life of bees " I loved him but I loved my freedom more" such an iconic scene! I also never looked to visual media and most of my beloved YA books can be hella messy but I just try and do what works for me and not the masses.

[@thejasminediaz]

Expert here: Avoiding struggle in a relationship is a fools errand. If you consider for a moment that you are two entirely different people trying to come together, it is impossible to make this transition without experiencing some form of difficulty. The question is really about type of struggle rather than "struggle" itself. It's also important to understand that perception is not reality. What we perceive about the "struggles" our parents and grandparents may have had might not be real. Because we're not participants in their relationship. Trying to avoid certain struggles (not speaking on abuse, infidelity, etc. Those or next level struggles) based on perception is not advisable and I'd question the source of your aversion. Instead, you should be focused on how you feel when you're in a relationship or having a particular experience rather than what you think you should feel based on someone elses experience. Am I making sense? I'm texting in my car lol

[@RoniiiB]

❤❤

[@tshegofatsothejane2345]

Totally agree with you. I wish more people could see this comment.

[@thejasminediaz]

@@tshegofatsothejane2345 thank you 🙏🏾🫶🏾

[@twentysvn]

‘Let’s be villains. Let’s be bad. Let’s break up the marriages. Let’s plot. Let’s scheme.’ 😂 yo the SCREAM I let out!!!!! This beautiful woman has me soooo confused. She went from wanting fairytales to breaking up marriages.

[@BK-lf1nw]

I think her sentiments were indicative of the dichotomy that many women grapple with in romantic relationships (and in life in general). You're told that if you do everything right, then you will get the fairytale but that's not how life is works and you realise that doing everything right doesn't quite serve/fulfil you and you entertain the idea of the alternative - what would your life look like if you broke the rules and gave into your desires? I think it's actually quite natural to have those thoughts and I appreciate her being honest about that internal struggle.

[@xBlackBunnyx]

I think when people talk about struggle love they are talking about excessive conflict, abuse, denigration, etc. The thing is, in my opinion because I haven't done studies on every single black human woman, black women are expected to put up with all forms of abuse (sexual, physical, emotional, verbal) and to be strung along, to be treated as an option, and to have to sit there and be the perfect woman while letting our partner 'figure things out' is weird. On top of that, i think it's bizarre how when we center conversations around issues black women have, we have a tendency to gently place the blame on black women. I feel like black women bend and tangle around themselves to appease their partners only to sit there and be told we aren't compromising enough and we're complaining too much, and we won't let a man be a man, and our grandmothers were married for long periods of time (interestingly no one likes to talk about why that it). It's just too much. Anyway. I love these panel type conversations. You look so beautiful in your pink top with your hair like that. And also, I wasn't a fan of Love and Basketball. It makes me uncomfortable and I felt like the woman was doing way too much for someone who probably just wanted to poke her. SMH.

[@SlothsDontLie]

Keena's point about what relationships MUST look like when it comes to navigating the mundane (Love & Basketball reference) was spot on! Intelligent woman! Thanks for the round-table

[@Lovedestroysx]

this is a wonderful and diverse panel, but I as a single woman would’ve also appreciated hearing these perspectives from a woman that is married or in a longer-term relationship. love the discourse though! these conversations are so necessary.

[@ForHarriet619]

Kristina has been with her partner for 3 years.

[@mina2509]

@@ForHarriet619 she’s not married though. It’s a different dynamic. Having a married person would’ve brought depth as well. But overall good discussion.

[@MsMizz1]

Next time it would be nice to see people who consider themselves life-partners/married 7+ years with or without children

[@Lovedestroysx]

@@MsMizz1 exactly my point

[@intherapture]

Appreciated the acknowledgment that Molly's dating experience was pretty indicative of what most people will encounter in seeking a partner and is not unique to Blackness. Art can/does reflect life but isn't a substitute for real life. Thoughtful conversation overall

[@CuratedVibes]

I've been living abroad 6 years now and it's much easier to have relationships with men who actually want us. We just gotta branch out and stop being limited by stereotypes and manipulative American men. Date men from other cultures, countries, backgrounds. It's time to expand our network.

[@indrinita]

I think you are all pretty young, which means at that stage in life it's not that easy to have a context for what's "normal" and what's not. With experience, I've learned from my own experience as well as others' that finding love per se is not that hard, but staying in a healthy long term relationship can be. But that should only be because you and your partner are on the same side and getting through life itself can be struggle, not because your partner is the struggle. That doesn't mean it doesn't take some doing to navigate around each other's quirks or even traumas sometimes, but that shouldn't be the main struggle theme in the relationship in general. If there's struggle, it's about the struggles we face in life, especially as racialized people in a patriarchal, yt supremacist world that also happens to be homophobic, transphobic, ableist, Islamophobic, antisemitic, etc. Once the struggle becomes about compatibility with your partner, that's when the question should come up if it makes sense to make a life together or not. And it's more than ok to abstain from relationships altogether if you're simply not finding a partner you can be with! We should stop stigmatizing singleness or even celibacy if that's what we choose. In fact, it's the right decision to not settle, and we should normalize that. For reference, I'm 45, been married almost eight years, together with my partner for almost 11 years. By the end of my 20s, I'd been in love twice. Also, and perhaps most importantly, I don't have and never wanted children. But there were plenty of points in my adult life that I decided it was healthier to stop being in intimate relationships than to be in a struggle relationship. Imo the latter is never worth it and I'd personally rather be single, celibate and sane for long periods than "be in struggle love", if that seems to be the only alternative for some reason.

[@llamacj]

Thank you.

[@MsMizz1]

Loved this breakdown, thank you as well.

[@Heyu7her3]

Ooh. There should've been 1-2 older women on this panel. Maybe on the next one...

[@jetunnadine]

So glad Kim mentioned people randomly diagnosing another person with that specific personality disorder...its too much. Especially because if you name your ex or current partner a narcissist then that means you will never win and you should never go back...which y'all do. Glad that B chimed in and mentioned that yes there is this phenomena of terrible people but that doesn't mean that they have this disorder. Side note: D'asia is gawjuss!

[@autumn3510]

I just want to add some context for the separate bedroom comment from Busisiwe. I’m not exactly sure where she’s from by her accent but in Nigerian and a lot of African cultures the wife and husband have separate bedroom especially if the couple has money. It is the norm and it doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing it does in America where it is assumed the couple is having problems and not close. I know many African couples that are happily married with separate bedrooms. Usually they visit each other frequently in their respectively bedrooms 😉 and retire to their own rooms when they need space

[@10Vernonplace]

Sleeping in separate bedrooms after 30-40 years of marriage can be because of snoring, talking in sleep, incontinence, different uses of television, wanting to have more space, other reasons. I think she is looking at long-term marriage unrealistically.

[@Syren90...Aka9]

I'm so happy to have heard the lovely young lady say, "ive never been in love". I related with her with so much and at my age of 32 i still question if i have. I know what love is and although I've been in extended relationships, been proposed to etc...I said no to the both proposals, accept the possibility of remaining single, and if I do release myself to the possibility of love - I will not compromise. I'm currently in a very beautiful relationship in which I can see myself being married to this man, but oooooh the inner work I had/still have to do is forever, plus if it doesn't work out 🤷🏽‍♀️ i dont have it in me to stay bothered. I've had to grow in a million ways, which includes growing out of the world's idea of companionship. Happiness first.

[@Heyu7her3]

I think hers was more about sexuality, which she's still trying to figure out. She said pan? but might be asexual.

[@ivycee355]

This was a very good show Kim. I am a middle age 50 plus yr old Cis Mixed Latina Woman who wishes there had be channels like urs for my Gen X gals to discuss all these topics, bcuz when it comes to struggle luv I feel we all experience a lot of the same regardless of our genders, races or POV. However like ur panelist Busisiwe mentioned due to White Supremacy and Patriarchal norms a lot of us Western women of color tend to experience setbacks and struggles that I feel are not shared with all women.

[@itsyourgirltee3754]

So happy to see a South African sister on this panel 😊🥺❤️ Hi Busisiwe sis 😍

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

I actually think Molly from Insecure was a great example. Think about it, what did she really “go through” - as Kim said, she was just going through duds, learning her boundaries, what she valued and what she didn’t until she found the right person for her. Her career wasn’t derailed by any man she dated, she didn’t get pregnant, she didn’t lose herself dealing with anyone. She did go through self reflection which is what got her to Taurean. Issa is an example of what that struggle love look like, but Molly NAH. Maybe Kristina just feels like that cuz she’s been in a relationship for the last 3 years, but Molly’s journey is what it is to be single. Also, most of Molly’s guys were decent men (with the exception of Dro), they just weren’t compatible with her. I don’t see the REAL struggle when it comes to Molly that we’re use to seeing in other shows.

[@Heyu7her3]

I didn't really watch "Insecure," but from the episodes I saw, Molly is the serial monogamist who was technically single but I never saw myself in her (as a single-single woman).

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

@@Heyu7her3 Molly was single most of the show. We only saw her in two relationships throughout the duration 1) Andrew (Asian Bae) and 2) Taurean (who became her husband) My point isn’t every single woman should see themselves in her. The comment made in the video was about how she wishes Molly could “catch a break” and I’m just not sure what that means. She dated men who weren’t right for her until she found one who was - and nowhere in that dating did she let it affect her career, her habits, goals, future, etc.

[@PoSHEmediaglobal]

Forgiving myself for putting myself through struggle love and the hell it can come with is something I am still working on. I didn’t know any better though but I believed in that kind of love. Sticking around someone with nothing and helping them figure things out. Well, not anymore!!!

[@angelar.5683]

Just getting started - but I'm 33 and never been in a relationship. Keena hit the nail on the head for me. My goals take work. And I have always believed that relationships take work. So when having to choose between the two, I've always chosen goals.

[@Lmao10752]

Lmao, when Busisiwe said call her B like Beyonce i knew i would like her 🤣🤣🤣 i love her energy lol

[@justcallmebon2684]

I appreciated B’s unique perspective. Very amusing and engaging.

[@jessmruth]

What your ex said about wanting someone that wants to do something new is sooo real. I'm aware and I'm still not willing to settle.

[@Martina_E]

I agree with Kim building a community is amazing and I’m looking forward to building and fostering a community. Yes to a panel on that. Can you share examples boundaries vs walls you said at the end?

[@dearjourneyxokamiahmonique]

“… love is at the bottom!” Babyyyyy I felt that! 👏🏾💆🏽‍♀️

[@churchsbiscuits]

I’m glad that the young women in our community are being warned about struggle love.

[@sj5218]

Heavy on the community is a privilege!!!! Coming from a single, only child, almost 30, childless black woman I can speak on that! I wish I had sisters, brothers, family, or genuine friends to rely on or just be there for me in general. I hold my own quite well but I find that when I’m dating I have attachment issues; especially going through a break up or something of that sort because the number one thing you hear people say is “get out, go have fun, go be around family and friends, people who love you!” And I don’t have a strong connection with that type of privilege. I have my mom, god bless her and I’m glad how far she and I have come in my adult years but in my younger years our relationship was strained and she’s part of the reason I have such a terrible attachment style. I said all of that to say, community is super important, I’m so tired of being lonely but I also fear how attach I become to people that I have a hard time making connections because I know at some point it will be severed. I enjoyed this commentary from you ladies! Can’t wait to see more!

[@anonymousone9699]

I ate this up. I didn’t want it to end. What a wonderful conversation and all black women around my age! I cannot put in words what this meant to me Kim. Thank you very much. Do more please!

[@autumnelizabeth533]

I don’t know anyone who has a relationship that I’d want to emulate

[@CamillaRules892]

People confuse emotional immaturity for narcissism.

[@RoniiiB]

Yes

[@artis_1001]

My grandparents were set up similarly to Kristina’s parents. My grandmother was a teacher and went to college. My grandpa had businesses and had no problem cooking for his family during the week. He was older than her. My dad was older than my mom and was a stay at home dad. My mom was a hardworking all throughout my childhood. I think these experiences are more common than we are truly aware of. The black American family dynamic has not been represented well in media.

[@YellowTXRose1]

Men don’t struggle love. Women are the ones who fantasize about a gradual progression as a couple. Men don’t care. If you’re not looking good and meeting requirements, he doesn’t care about your potential and he isn’t going to struggle love you up to his standards. Struggle love is the territory women battle axe and die on. Men don’t live there and they are just passing through.

[@cv8452]

No one teaches you that you will change and evolve over time and the nuances that come with being in a partnership the other person changes/evolves differently than what you expected. It can be difficult to navigate the relationship especially if it’s been a long-term one.

[@mimiandy1683]

Watching this video has oddly made me reminisce about the moment of when I knew that I was aromantic-asexual. It was when I was watching a KZbin video of some dude, who was telling his female viewers about “dying alone” was in their future, if they didn’t do “x,y and z”. I remember chuckling and thinking “Boy, aren’t they full of themselves”.

[@LivieTheDeveloper]

Good/easy black love exists. My husband and I have a very happy marriage - no struggles here. Same for my parents. Keep hope alive ladies 💗

[@awwdeezy6829]

I'm sorry, but no offense, that is Bullshit. The reality is that there aren't enough black men for all black women. We need to open our options for healthy relationships regardless of race.

[@nmhoskins]

@StretchMarkstheSpot The problem is that black love is rare. And too many black women are hoping and living for that RARE black love.

[@mizzmolly7649]

Yes, it exists love, but it's extremely rare. I know 2 couples as you describe. But even the man in one of those couples wasn't able to really bond with his children because his own father was an abuser. You probably represent less than 5 percent of blk marriages. But I'm happy for you.

[@videofan1010]

Black love is rare - call it what it is.

[@namegirl28]

@@awwdeezy6829I think finding a “good man” should be the focus who has morals/ values regardless of race should be the focus. It’s 2022 and we shouldn’t still be saying this

[@DutchessG]

It’s such a catch-22 finding love for Black women, do it young and get the dream only for it to crash or focus on yourself and your goals and hope love finds you later. I’m 42 and a divorced mother of one (19) and sadly I’m just tapped out of the nonsense since ending a 5yr relationship a year ago. At this age it would be great to have a true healthy partnership but it’s rather difficult when too many aren’t willing to create a new type of love story because so many are busy living in their own traumas to be open. In some ways I don’t feel bitter from my experiences but I think they have embittered me in a way where I just don’t wanna be bothered/disappointed anymore. I’m so glad when friends my age are getting married for the first time and looking at children but I look at what many have to endure and who the hell wants to broken down to be “built up by love” ? To the pit with that.

[@namegirl28]

You think this is only an issue for black women ? Finding love and then it crashing?

[@DutchessG]

@@namegirl28 I’m addressing Black women because the panel is comprised of them and I am one so I’m confused at your question. Given that there are many specific “lessons” Black women are taught in entertainment, pop culture, tha church we have been conditioned to accept that there must be some amount of pain we have to endure in order to prove ourselves worthy of love.

[@miabarnett2452]

Was this conversation helpful to you at 42? I’m 40 with a 19yo as well. Wondering if I should invest the time and listen in.

[@DutchessG]

@@miabarnett2452 I had it playing when I was purging clothes but it was interesting hearing different viewpoints, nothing earth shattering but interesting.

[@miabarnett2452]

@@DutchessG ok tyvm

[@SHA-3qua]

I agree with what you said about men being socialized to be sociopaths, the concept of getting someone pregnant to make more humans matters more than most other parts of interacting with them and that's kind of a big part of being a man that's why many men don't really become useful until their sex drives start to wane.

[@jessinthecomments]

I’m 36 and I’m not counting young love and I’ve only been in love twice. I don’t love easily, but when I do it’s forever. Currently single.

[@Tarrns]

Love, love, loved this! Had me journaling and pausing for thought and messaging my best friend! Really thought provoking, comforting and inspiring conversation 🤎

[@EspritsFantomes]

I guess I’m lucky I found healthy relationship (4 years now) as a black woman in her 20s. When I hear people talk about their relationship… it gives me headache. It is very unfortunate. My partner isn’t black so I can’t really say much about black love

[@GreenNectarines]

So I'm a queer agender Black sapphic. I work in nonprofits and study Community Psychology. I've met so many young queer folks who have had to build community after being separated from family. I know many elders who have fulfilling lives, work with dedicated community oriented folks who create activities, centers, discussions, safe spaces for LGBTQ+ people. I think that community can be found any place we are willing to mutually hold space for one another so while it is absolutely found in traditional family structures, we have a long history of community that transcends these structures. Take vogue and drag houses for example. One thing about learning from queer practices is that while that we learn about human nature in the process in regards to what is possible. If I can find community while living in another city being estranged from my family at a young age? I genuinely feel that anyone can in any circumstance.

[@aunikajohnson5170]

This was a great conversation. I really like the nuances. Can’t wait to see more.

[@michelle_9875]

The media thing is really so huge even as a 24 year old woman I went back to watch waiting to exhale just to see what it was from a new lense and it was literally crazy. There was just no good guys. Everyone was bad and showed me where these tropes really came from.

[@Deshun01]

Lack of patience. People give up so easily on relationships nowadays because they don’t have that patience to work things out. If something’s wrong, and clearly, misunderstandings are persisting in a relationship, instead of taking time out and solving them with a calm mind, people give up. They feel it’s easier to end the relationship, and probably, find someone else who they wouldn’t have such misunderstandings with, in the first place. Ego. One huge aspect of human nature that kills relationships. Everybody has ego.. I get it. But there are a very few people who know how to keep it out when it comes to handling a sensitive connection. It all comes down to something as simple as.. who would call first after a fight. When ego takes over in smallest issues, and nobody wants to step down, apologize and save the relationship, it naturally dies. Unwillingness to put in the effort. It’s easier to give up than fight for someone, when there are so many choices around. Instead of working on the relationship, giving it some time, and trying to find out if someone else actually might be the one you’re meant to be with, people focus on the options they have, and all that they might be opening chances for, after giving up. People don’t even fall in love anymore. Everything comes down to talking, catching feelings, having a good thing going on for a little while and then, ending up ignoring each other.

[@mamimelusine]

I want to see more media representation where women are already partnered and still going through their journey of life. Because so many womens shows are structured around single hood the series finales often end up centering on people getting together or married. And there’s this narrative that women have to go through all this stuff and do all this work on themselves before they are ready for marriage. So much of my transformations and journeys have happened since my marriage…most long term relationships are imperfect incomplete not quite together people getting together and having to choose over and over again to commit to one another as they grow and change. And sometimes choosing not to. I want to see two good people go through their struggles and come out on the other side, or choose to part and coparent and not reconcile. And it would show life not ending with the wedding there are still goals and dreams and other things we’re working on and trying to achieve that doesn’t have to happen in the same episode or the episode before you get the guy.

[@invisiblerevolution]

Great comment 💯 ZERO CAP!!!!

[@claireh8125]

From Scratch on Netflix is a god show that’s like this

[@tresvegan3633]

Truly eye opening conversations between such beautiful women. It is so true how we get used to be isolated. I can relate to relying on my mother heavily during the pandemic. It was humbling and I’m so glad to have been able to have her through that experience. And I am partnered with a child and still need my extended family to be in contact with me and to see them regularly. 🙌🏽🙏🏽♥️

[@Tthomasia1]

The simplest way for me to express my thoughts about this is that people are fucked up so our relationships with one another will be too

[@DiamondBlack06]

Busisiwe is a HOOT!😂😂😂😂 love that for her❤

[@jjamerican93]

I will say that if you’re a woman who wants to have a child/your own family and doesn’t have a romantic partner to have it with, look into single mother by choice groups (and for women of color, there is a Mocha SMCs podcast). It’s not an option I considered at first, but my romantic life hasn’t played out the way I expected or was taught how it “should be,” and knowing that I have this option has lifted some weight of my shoulders. I know too many women who held out for that hypothetical father for their children or never appeared, and they really regret not getting to be moms when they had a deep desire for that. And again, maybe I’ll meet that person. But if not, at least there are other options to seriously consider. 😊

[@namegirl28]

I think children deserve two parents so in my opinion, you may need to look into the reasons you want to have a child and see if they’re actually authentic. Nothing wrong with being childless if you don’t desire marriage or even helping with all the children in the system

[@rebeccamhagama]

@@namegirl28 those two parents don’t necessarily have to be romantic partners plus romantic partners are just as selfish in their reasons for desiring parenthood as single ones are. parenthood is inherently selfish

[@amentrison2794]

@@rebeccamhagama absolutely agree. But a secondary parent is there in that platonic situation regardless. I've grown up with a single mom, and as much as she did her best, it's still very hard for a single person to do it all. I wish I had more emotional support. This doesn't mean she wasn't giving it her all, it just that you can give something your all and it can still not be enough. Taking care of business, plus being there 100% for your child emotionally, plus being there for yourself 100% emotionally is just a tall ask for a single person, regardless of how amazing that person is. I wouldn't care what gender that secondary parent was or if their relationship was romantic or platonic, but having that other person there to support your child is important either way in my personal opinion.

[@liyahmeridy7997]

Part of me understands that, at least in this world, black love won't come without some sort of struggle - internally or externally. But when I hear S.L in relation to us, my first thought is it's about us enduring struggles for everlasting love. Or like, us being the lighthouse on a stormy beach, letting ships know where land is even if they'll never dock at that Port. It's romantic but it's not... Relieving. That love seems utterly exhausting.

[@TexanBeautie]

Me personally, I can't even listen to No Pain No Gain the same way. I used to love that song, but now I skip it.

[@aknightofhorror]

I'm like Keena never been in love never been in a relationship. And do I desire it? Not really like Keena said I can take it or leave it. And I'm 36

[@KariFromYoutube]

I think black women really need to be more open to possibilities of love outside the AA community and need to choose a partner off of character not vanity. The biggest issue holding black women back is that they are vain and choose their partner based off vain qualities. Example, I have seen so many black women date down simply because the guy is cute. It’s very childish. Especially since a lot of these women are educated. They will completely bypass a man’s moral character if he is fine, dark skinned with a nice body. He could be colorist, a deadbeat dad, have multiple baby mamas, but if he is fine?! He will have a trail of black women lining up to date him and he the “exception”it’s really gross 😂

[@andreyamatthew2035]

I loved this convo and the variety of view points!

[@tylerhackner9731]

Always love your analysis

[@Teecee-j7i]

I really appreciate this conversation and the ways that queerness is brought into it. I think queer people have a lot of wisdom when it comes to innovative ntimacy. I would love to see more conversations like this that invite bisexual/pansexual men, gender non-conforming straight men and transmen into this conversation because that's a whole pool of Black men who may be ready to or practiced at creating the new intimacy paradigms described in this video.

[@Heyu7her3]

Yes but for men channels

[@teeayteeayetc]

Wishing I saw this earlier! I am wondering if there is any discourse on developing community with neuro-cognitive diversity (I have pretty bad social anxiety) or perhaps the various socioeconomic differences that come with regional difference (living in the northeast with different access to things that still comes with lower socioeconomic status, as opposed to in areas where a dollar goes a bit further)

[@NadiaPink]

I brought merch. But sis your sales pitch and the fact that I watch you and enjoy your commentary at has me thinking to possibly buy the merch. And the color looks lovely on you. ❤

[@shawnwashington1778]

I really appreciated this global conversation around Black love ❤

[@yujuy.1329]

Blk love is lie that doesn’t exist. Bm don’t believe in it and sooooo many BW di3 bc they do believe in it.

[@datstrue]

Oh my… the intro … Kim just simply makes tasteful choices

[@laureng6222]

Seriously. Chef’s kiss, time after time

[@Martina_E]

Yes

[@twistedintegrity]

Lol Keena making me feel better. I haven’t had a serious relationship either. I just turned 27. I have my finances mostly in order and my credit is poppin, in therapy all that great stuff. But yeah never had a relationship and to be honest, I don’t think I want one but I do wish to at least experience one before I die😂😂😂😂

[@jjamerican93]

Can totally relate to this. I think there are more people in this situation than society would like to admit, but it’s still such a taboo when it doesn’t need to be. People blossom into and experience romantic relationships in their own timing all the time.

[@yujuy.1329]

I relate to this too but from what’s out there I don’t see the reason to check for them.

[@TheNaphisa03]

Yes. They can. They need to expand their dating pool. Period!

[@SkippyLaughlin]

I believe in fairytale love but a realistic version for real life. So love dovey but with healthy arguments (infrequent of course), communication, and zero toxicity. And im6not entering a relationship until I befriend the perfect person and then we fall in love.

[@brina2254]

i LOVE Busiswe! I agree with her perspective the most on this topic and I think its beyonddd time most women stop biding their time. In the dating market.. Yes! Be the villian and get what you want.

[@MozzieMutant]

At 11:24 sadly that’s the problem. We’ve been given an unrealistic version of love by films that is near impossible to achieve

[@plottwistpleasethepodcast4469]

This is so validating. I feel like alternative dating structures also tend to resonate with neurodivergent people for many reasons.

[@malakcanvas]

The 20 year age gap, I've seen it more with a lot of older [christian] couples. Men who married, divorced, widowers have younger but very adult [30 year] wives. Long lasting for many, too! Enjoyed this conversation. I'm very damned if I do, damned if I don't. 🤷🏿‍♀️ but working on myself and my happiness right now. ❤

[@thewisdomdivatv]

I’m 52 & my daughter is 25. A major difference in the generations upbringing is that my daughter (and son) were not allowed to navigate conflict with their peers. EVERYTHING was considered bullying, especially where Black children are involved. I have the same close friend circle since high school because we can do things like leave each other alone, give grace, and forgive and let go. I think the best of my friends, my daughter and many in her cohort generally don’t like people. Every unpleasant behavior is a sign of narcissism, all the older family members are toxic. I find it hard to see how any type of healthy relationship - romantic or otherwise can thrive with this type of thinking. Especially since most of your generation longs for connection so badly. I feel for my daughter and other young women but they don’t do well with advice that suggests personal responsibility so there’s that..

[@anitaboyle6778]

I am 26 . And Mam? I fully agree!! Guilty as charged. Please Continue to Show her Grace and Patience. She will learn ...she will have to. All of us will. I am just in the Middle of this process myself. #pray4us😅🤣

[@Heyu7her3]

A lot of stuff IS bullying, tho... children end up ended due to that.

[@claudettemcleod7877]

i think every women has to go through up and downs to get to a happy ever after, you have to grow to figure out what you don't want, and who you are in this world and what healthy looks like and what works for you and your partner, its not putting up with things that you know deep down is not right and getting out of your own way and and letting relationships go and not fantasize something is working when it is not, and you are actually being abuse on some level and that is not love, and to search and seek working on yourself to make sure you to are not the problem as well.

[@houseofbonnets]

Finally able to watch this and excited to hear the different perspectives. Also gotta grab my are y'all OK set in green!!!❤

[@DvonParker]

the answer is yes

[@ellerichseven]

Amazing conversation!💜

[@eprahs1]

Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting different results.

[@MsMizz1]

Thanks for this Kim! Looking forward to more 💜

[@Kenyshaknowsluxtv]

Kim you should try love is blind if you need to find something off the beaten path, it’ll take quite a different direction and willingness for adventure.

[@SafzDidIt]

I'm with B all the way. I took breaking up the marriages as not staying with people when it's not working

[@MsAbnormilKarou]

So good. I really appreciate these conversations, much needed 😊

[@derinaries]

Keena, my philosophy is EXACTLY like yours.

[@dari4303]

Keena is me never been in love or had a serious relationship because of things I've seen growing up. I feel like seeing my mom date these terrible men scared me into avoiding the male species growing up lol.