The Gospels of Jesus' Childhood

After the nativity stories in Matthew and Luke, the canonical gospels have precious little to say about the life of Jesus between his birth and the beginning of his public ministry as an adult. The infancy gospel of James and the infancy gospel of Thomas (not to be confused with the more important sayings gospel of Thomas) attempted to fill in some of the details with mixed results. Although both texts were left out of the New Testament, their narratives have had a significant influence on Christian tradition and doctrine and episodes from these apocryphal sources even found their way into the Quran. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will review both texts in light of our sources for these “lost years” of Jesus’ life.
Keywords relevant to this lecture: Infancy Gospels, Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Childhood of Jesus, Apocrypha, Apocryphal Gospel, Christianity lecture, religion lecture, religious studies, Judaism lecture, biblical scholarship.
#lecture #cofchrist

[@jonathanjeffreys3007]

I could listen to you for hours. As a schoolteacher, I constantly strove to present ideas to children in a pleasant informal way that would encourage them to become interested, and therefore to remember some of what I had said. You possess this ability in spades, and what's more, it's natural.

[@jetpromys]

That was fun. I love these lectures. You hit on some subjects I know nothing about, which makes it very interesting.

[@laurah1020]

Great lecture...you are so knowledgeable, and well balanced in your approach to these topics..I really enjoy listening! Thank you for sharing on YT!

[@MM-jf1me]

Interesting lecture! Thanks for sharing this recording!

[@glenn-younger]

Good talk. Thank you!

[@jacqulynnbrookins354]

I love every bit of it. All of teaching!

[@Rose80388]

Thank you so much, so glad this was brought to me. So interesting and it explains so much for me I didn’t understand

[@VSP4591]

Nice presentation. Well done.

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

unique perspective, historicity usually suffers but you are delicate. visions of you and richard carrier, please!

[@myrawells5691]

This was wonderful very enjoyable thank you

[@BenM61]

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I may not agree with your theology but I have enjoyed your lectures.

[@nosuchthing8]

We might not be sure about his theology. Hes just presenting his research.

[@BenM61]

@@nosuchthing8 For him to claim Muhammad wrote down stories he heard about Jesus and Mary during his trips to Syria is to go beyond research. He has no proof of that but that didn’t stop him from throwing accusations and judgment he had no business doing. His theology and world view maybe requires of him to posit such high flying claims without any proof.

[@nosuchthing8]

@@BenM61 Hes just repeating what is reported. Hes not saying he believes it.

[@BenM61]

@@nosuchthing8 If that is the case then why didn’t his research told him to report that almost two billion people believe otherwise.

[@HistoryandReviews]

All religions are lies

[@Rannsack]

Stories from several non-canonical gospels are found in the koran. This story of the clay birds, and also the gnostic interpretation that jesus substituted someone else on the cross. It's interesting these Christianity were so influential in arabia in 600AD, long after the west had ruled them non-canonical in 300-400AD.

[@mugikuyu9403]

It makes sense. Some of those Christian’s who refused to consider them non-canonical or ‘heretical’ might have gone to somewhere like Arabia to escape persecution by ‘orthodox’ Christian’s.

[@tamjansan1154]

First church was established in Syria.

[@stevenv6463]

The protoevangel of James is also echoed in the Quran where a similar story is told about Mary's background.

[@seekrighteousness297]

many of the Gnostic gospels are well known read the Apostolic writers from from the pre Nicene period they had the books of the bible compiled by 130 to 150 A.D. which is attested to in the writings of the founders of the first churches

[@Stadtpark90]

lovely icons

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

always a pleasure

[@igaluitchannel6644]

There are budddhist, sanskrit and chinese texts mentioning Jesus in India, Tibet and Kashmir. Nobody says that the family of Jesus was poor.

[@paulwheatcroft8916]

Regarding the slide at 35:03, Ralph Ellis discusses that St Paul and Josephus Flavius are one and the same.

[@HistoryandReviews]

How would Josephus know Jesus when he never mentioned him. Josephus only mentions Jesus ben Ananias who is the closest thing to the gospel Jesus. The other Jesus’s mentioned are bandits

[@thetruth4791]

A man will stand in the Last temple and Proclaim to be God(King of Kings...) And that will Tell us that we are 3 1/2 yrs into the great tribulation...Great Job...

[@HistoryandReviews]

Revelations is the first century

[@Am-dh9gq]

The Jews Messiah is here he might be the one

[@kankikankkinen2670]

Is Pinocchio about the stretching wood story

[@timothyappleseed2986]

The reference to King of Kings may have something to do with Jesus being a Sovereign citizen type along with all of his friends, which would explain why they persecuted the Christian.

[@jamesscott879]

nice

[@kroelben1]

Tak!

[@centre-place]

Thank you for supporting the channel!

[@andrewsuryali8540]

One correction. God didn't tell the priests to collect all the widowers in Israel... why would He do that? The order was to collect all the descendants of David, which they followed, but the one God chose happened to be the widower Joseph.

[@andylyon3867]

two different children born 3-4 years apart, one descends from Solomon other from Solomon's half brother Nathan. Such an intense incarnation needed two humans with their combined energy bodies were needed though one child dies, as does one Mary and one Joseph then the two families combine.

[@Patrick77487]

Toddler god had temper tantrums. Apparently inherited from OT.

[@lauraoverstreet9987]

I always found it interesting, that Paul was forbidden to go to the east to preach..any thoughts on this?

[@andrewsuryali8540]

The East or Asia? The Asia mentioned in Acts is actually modern-day Turkey. Paul did try to move east near the end of his ministry, around 57CE. However, at around 56CE various things were happening in Armenia and around the Roman border, which spilled over to Syria and eventually led to the Romano-Parthian War of 58CE.

[@alvaroovalle312]

Mary and joseph are living in Chile

[@yiannimil1]

chill Alvaro

[@robertruggiero9999]

That the Koran includes stories from the infancy gospel is another pointer that Islam and the Koran was kickstarted from Christian and Jewish teachings. Mohammad and the Koran we know today was then later invented so that the arabs that conquered Jerusalem didn’t have to feel theologically inferior to Christians or Jews and as a means to create a common bond between the wide range of peoples conquered.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

What are you talking about? Muhammad himself admitted that he was taught by a Christian monk (called Bahira in Islamic tradition). This is preserved in the biographies of Muhammad written by Islamic scholars, except in their case they used the character as a prophet who prophecized Muhammad's future greatness. The Muslims were PROUD of their Christian heritage precisely because they perceived themselves as Christianity's upgrade. This attitude prevailed well into the 16th century when the tides of civilization began to turn against them.

[@ebojfmdboojoh4023]

Or that the Quaran is indeed the true word of God and the infancy Gospel or at least parts of it is also a genuine revelation from God

[@Johnathan909309]

Watch the video by a Catholic priest called Islam started as a Christian heresy. He's 100% correct

[@Eriugena8]

In those 30 years, Jesus walked upon the rocks, With heathens rolling in ampitheres, What to say to FreddyM and GeddyLee, Hamer them and Ashes of thee

[@alanpennie8013]

The first verse of Jerusalem consists of four questions and all of them should be answered with a No. Is this Betteridge's Law of mystical poetry?

[@alanpennie8013]

Or possibly three questions. It depends whether you read question 3 as referring to a moment of epiphany, or as simply repeating question 1.

[@alvaroovalle312]

Mary Magdalene name today is Victoria Eugenia

[@alvaroovalle312]

Mary name today is Rosa Ines

[@dthird3107]

So, the homily during Dec 24th mass about Joseph's ancestry has nothing to do with Jesus since he was born immaculately.

[@tangokaleidos1926]

The immaculate conception is about Mary's birth, not Jesus. Research.

[@andylyon3867]

Socrates was in an international society of learning the reached to China, the Magi.

[@seekrighteousness297]

These books are in The Nag Hammadi which was found in Egypt around Alexandria they are books left over from that library they are Fables made for the purpose of teaching they are not meant to be read as true history like the books in The Bible that's why other books are quoted from but not included in the Bible like The books of Jasher and Enoch they are truth mixed with fable to help explain things that happened that others had hard time explaining we still do the same thing today and also why Paul said 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for INSTUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works

[@andrewsuryali8540]

These books are literally kept in Orthodox and Catholic church libraries for hundreds of years and continued to be copied (and later printed). They are apocrypha, meaning the official church still consider them inspired, just not canonical enough to include in the Bible. They never went into the burn pile. The Catholic Church based their entire Marian Cult on Infancy James.

[@danielhopkins296]

This dud is an excellent repeater

[@Imjustsayin99]

This is Dan Brown’s church

[@deanluminoid8717]

How does the theory that Josephus wrote the gospels sit with you?

[@nosuchthing8]

That's very interesting.

[@JohnDoe-zy6tm]

Josephus has a better grasp of Judaism then is displayed in the gospels. He also writes in a different style then the gospels are written. He also knows the geography of the Levant while the gospels display less knowledge on the subject. Based on this I would not agree with Josephus authoring the gospels.

[@stevenv6463]

That sounds so crazy but myth vision has a video arguing Josephus influenced the author of Luke and Acts.

[@MM-jf1me]

@@stevenv6463 These are two very different ideas. I'm convinced by Dr. Mason's argument that the author of Luke-Acts was familiar with Josephus' writings, but I'm not at all convinced that Josephus wrote the gospels. Are you saying that you find these two ideas equally plausible or that you think they're both crazy claims but you've seen one (convincingly?) argued?

[@stevenv6463]

@@MM-jf1me The Luke Acts author knowing Josephus sounded crazy to me at first until I saw that Steve Mason argues for it. Josephus ghost writing the gospels is very crazy to me but if an academic argued convincingly that a passage (not the whole thing though of course) was lifted from Josephus, I guess I could be convinced.

[@alvaroovalle312]

Jesus is coming to South America

[@jensandersen7011]

From Mexico?

[@AJWRAJWR]

Did he go there yet?

[@jussikankinen9409]

James and josh where brothers, so is James Jacob

[@alvaroovalle312]

Joseph Arimatea name today is Hernan Gomez Marzheimer from Chile

[@timothyappleseed2986]

When Jesus raises the boy who fell off the roof to life, the boy tells everyone that Jesus didn't do it. Then the boy dies again. Well, if Jesus was able to raise the kid from the dead, then couldn't he also make him lie?

[@jussikankinen9409]

Did indians travel egypt

[@JamesMandolare]

I feel the Jewish rebellion of 68-70 ad and the destruction of Herod's Temple is the true root of the Christian stories, born out of the sacking of Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews. This event effected the history of the world and was the historical seed of the later romantic embellishments that eventually became the Christian writings, a mixture of spiritual "mystery" stories and history. This was the way mystery schools of the ancient world from Egypt, Greece and other cultures were made to appear as historical when they were actually spiritual allegory.

[@shazgood]

Yes! The trauma of the sack of the second temple was the key event in Christian origins.

[@JonathanKofi]

The destruction of the temple certainly had an effect and definitely shaped Christian stories, but there were already Christian stories circulating at the time. Paul was writing his letters well before the rebellion, and even Mark was probably writing based on traditions he inherited prior to the rebellion (which was probably going on or was impending when he wrote his gospel)

[@JamesMandolare]

@@JonathanKofi That is a quaint notion of a true believer. Unfortunately, it is not true. These stories were written decades after the fact "according to...." and the manuscripts that have come down to us in some cases centuries after these times. No this is mythical fiction, using Greek classical stories, Old Testament narratives (borrowed from Egypt and Babylon), and other literary conventions of the day, including using the sacking of Jerusalem to "back date" Jesus so he can "prophesy" the future.

[@jounik8980]

What if jesus had twin brother, look same, their father was roman soldier

[@LethalBubbles]

maybe it wasn't Jesus or Thomas that went to India but Didymous Judas Thomas Young Socrates apparently has time travel powers and has a dialogue with his older self in one of the Statesman

[@sharonmelsby7679]

Read a Jewish perspective by ?/Unknown. His idea was of a boy, Jesus going to Jerusalem with relatives for yrs & being known by other boys only who'd seen him yet didn't communicate with to know. Their insults refered to Jesus as unlearned as he wasn't attending the Jerusalem synagogue/s for schooling as mentioned in bible. Jesus goes with his parents at the youngest age boys were graduated/Bar Mitzvah. He would probably have prayed about it & kept quiet towards the boys & insults. He attended synagogue/a in Galilee for extra education, etc. So, Jesus is given place & time after separating from parents & others that were leaving. He goes about the temple & returns each of next 3 days having discussions with the priests & learned elders, God allowing Jesus to be approved for what he knew & was able to answers & understanding to things they couldn't as well. It wasn't mentioned in bible that Mary's mother was still living within the city walls of Jerusalem & other relatives lived near there when it mentions he return daily without bringing up where he went & who he stayed with, etc. The parents returned to the temple & found him. Jesus received high regards/honor from temple men & that is considered his beginning of teaching others. Then returning to Galilee Jesus teaches whenever he can. Awhile after it gets back to his parents. Mary takes Jesus brothers & sister with her to go & bring him home. Shortly after Jesus is allowed to go to ... & returns around 29 AD going 1st to see his cousin John the Baptiser. He was welcomed at synagogues & temple in Jerusalem & considered a priest (reason his followers called Jesus their High Priest in heaven after ascension).

[@fortunedlamini5102]

I thought you find out about Jesus i had a hope

[@deni.s.hk1]

Imagine if people actually realized what ”infancy” and ”mircale birth means” Infancy = Childish behaviour Miracle birth = Mary was infertile

[@MahiarByramshaw]

Talmud of Jmmanuel (Emmanuel)

[@JesusChristhasrisen682]

I am who I am Yahweh Christ in the flesh as a man ♂️👑 and I will start a new world religion called truth

[@alanpennie8013]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

[@paulwheatcroft8916]

So say we all? Gotta love Battlestar Galactica

[@denissutherland3653]

Luke is a fatuous and false narrative for a start Jesus was supposed to have remained behind in jerusalem and was found discussing theology with the clegy. From that "position" he was so valued that he ended up being crucified!!! Jesus from his birth to when God told him the Good News lived a life just like all humans conceived subject to satan and the Bible says that why don't the know alls actually read the Bible!!!!!Hebrews 2 : 10 - 18 For, in his work of bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that he for whom everything exists and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of salvation fully adequate for his destined work through suffering. For he who sanctifies and they who are sanctified must come of one stock. It is for this reason that he does not hesitate to call them brothers, as when he says : “I will tell your name to my brothers ; I will sing hymns to you in the midst of the gathering of your people.” And again : “ I will put all my trust in him.” And again : Behold me and the children God gave to me.” The children then have a common flesh and blood and he completely shared in them, so that, by that death of his, he might bring to nothing him who has the power of death, and might set free all those who, for fear of death, were all their lives liable to a slave’s existence. For I presume it is not angels he helps ; but it is the seed of Abraham that he helps. So he had in all things to be made like his brothers so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the things which pertain to God, to win forgiveness for the sins of his people. For in that he himself was tried and suffered, he is able to help those who are undergoing trial. Hebrews 2 : 14 - 17 “ Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death - that is, the devil - and free those who all of their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2 : 18 “ Because he suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.” Hebrews 5 : 7 - 10 “During the days of Jesus’s life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.”

[@MsRmbrown]

Very wordy and missing the Holy Spirit guidance....

[@NeilEvans-xq8ik]

How do you know?

[@kankikankkinen2670]

Love ur enemy isnt jewish saying, but buddhism

[@HistoryandReviews]

So is the story of the woman at the well

[@seekrighteousness297]

The infancy of James is also a very late book around 350-450 AD it was made to prove the ever virgin Mary as the Roman Vatican teaches which is false the Gospels in the Bible say Joseph DID NOT KNOW Mary till AFTER Christ was born so He could have had step siblings also in the past you were not actually married unless you consummate the marriage. In some areas you had to let people witness the Marriage Bed to Make sure that the marriage was consummated

[@WK-47]

Kind of. Look up the definition. Consummation only completes the marriage - which is already a marriage by that point - it just legitimises it in such cultures. However, we have to be careful not to apply our understandings of medieval European society, for example, to other societies from other periods.

[@apollo8352]

How can you make any of these claims when you know when Mark, Luke and Matthew were written....as for a few sayings being the source from Q material.... Luke worked for Paul fabricating nonsense to trick the Jews into thinking Jesus was fore filling some silly old prophesies. Luke even tells you in Luke 1:1-6 that while he thinks his scriptures are true, they are only recording what unspecified people believed...no eye witness account of anything. We do know Jesus and his Apostles, (mates) were members of a massiahanistic group of Jews that were rebelling against Roman Rule invoking the very old prophesy that a messiahs would one day come and save the jews from their miserable existence of course being of virgin birth. Idol speculation the whole Jesus claim is idol speculation with not a single eye witness testimony that stands scrutiny,.

[@yiannimil1]

idle...... not idol!

[@jussikankinen9409]

Twins do tricks

[@amonone399]

Whitewashing is disagreeable.

[@armaundpeacelove5908]

What proof do you have that the gospels in the new testament are historical? There is no proof

[@centre-place]

Nobody is making that claim in this lecture.

[@lilalali6753]

Jesus keeps cursing... Jesus Christ! What a bad boy! I do not know if I should laugh or cry. So much of obvious stupidity... By the way were Judea and India neighbour countries? I am asking this, because the b version would be that he flew from one point to the other without stopping and seeiing any other empire on the loooong way.

[@MM-jf1me]

Judea and India were not neighboring counties; the distance between Jerusalem and Kodungallur (where St. Thomas arrived in India) is 4,837 km (3005.5 miles). No clue how long it would take to travel that distance then or now.

[@lilalali6753]

@@MM-jf1me the point was: If Judea and India were not neighbours, then what country was in between them? A - Atlantis, B - Israel, C - Scythia.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

@@lilalali6753 Persia. Or in Jesus' time, the Parthian Empire.

[@luizverdecanna8023]

Extremely messy, nobody cared about Jesus when he was a child only after resurrection several tales emerged telling about the past which has no source one can rely for certain. All their Narrations always have the numbers 12 & 40. Noticed 12 clay birds ????

[@alvaroovalle312]

Mary magdalenr was jesus Wife

[@thaqalayni]

Correct

[@thaqalayni]

And Mani was they son

[@JasonBurley-gs8sm]

A Lot Of Things In The New Testament Are In The Old Testament, Was Christianity Invented Too ?👎👎👎😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬

[@nasticanasta]

These ridiculous “gospels” read like the Bhagavad Gita