Colossians

[@lizzard13666]

I really like the connection to Adam being the image of God, which means Adam was meant to rule creation but he didn't ... very thought provoking!

[@mitchellc4]

I think it’s important to point out that the context here is the RISEN Jesus Post resurrection

[@kiwihans100]

To call Jesus the 'co creator' suggests he had equal power in creation. This is based on the incorrect translation of Col1:16 which uses the operative word 'BY' ie; "For BY him were all things created".( KJV) By is english for 'EN' greek, meaning 'BY MEANS OF'. or THROUGH.The same word is used at Heb 1:1 " God spake unto the fathers BY ( en ) the prophets". We would agree that it is GOD, not the prophets who originated what was 'spoken'? Thus more honest translations read "For THROUGH him God created everything! ( 'The good news bible' 1971). This agrees with 1 Cor 8:6 " There is one God & Father of all persons OUT OF WHOM all things are. And One lord Jesus Christ THROUGH WHOM all things are. You cant prove the 'trinity' using a bible translation written BY a committe of trinitarians! Thats not honest! Just one word 'BY' wrongly or rightly translated can make all the difference. The way they choose depends on the religious agenda of the translators.

[@ArtorGrael]

In this discussion creating and creation was pretty much the main topic but 'creation' itself never gets defined. What does create mean? What is (a) creation ? And you never get into what the Hebrew and Greek terms are.

[@kiwihans100]

So who was Jesus refering to when he said "Did you not read that He who created them and made them male and femalr"? And "From the beginning of the creation God made them male & female" And "Grace to you and peace from GOD our Father & the Lord Jesus Christ. ...(Of sinners 0 who changed the truth of GOD into a lie and worshiped and served creature more than the the CREATOR who is blessed forever". ( Matt 19:4, Mark 13:19. Rom 1: 7, 25) So honestly. Who is being called by jesus and Paul 'The Creator'. Its plainly 'God' the Father.

[@mitchellc4]

I don’t think anyone is claiming Jesus is active in the Genesis creation I think the point is, Jesus is active in the NEW creation Anyone IN Christ is a new creation The New Creation is IN Christ

[@pipermoonshine3281]

so when the people bowed down to worship the image of Cesar they were not really worshipping Cesar? so why then did he, Cesar, command them to do that if in fact he didn't take it as a worship of himself? I find it interesting how Unitarians have to redefine an entire bible passage to support their claim.. John 1:1-3; Revelations 19:13; Hebrews 1:2; and Philippians 2:5-11..when you put Colossians 1:15-19 together with theses verses you get an entirely different picture then what these guys are saying here.

[@Davis_Carlton]

I agree. This passage speaks of Jesus having created all things in the past and upholding all things in the present. The new creation has been accomplished yet in its entirety. This statement has to mean that Jesus is the creator of the original creation.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@pipermoonshine3281 We would first ask/suggest to people to read all those verses in the context of the entire books they were written in. Then to understand them with the backdrop of their intended audience and historical/cultural factors in which they were written in mind. Then to understand Then to understand them in light of the entire New Testament and Bible. I agree with the piper that if all you had were these verses in isolation and amongst each other, someone could easily persuade you that they teach Jesus is God and the Creator. But this becomes very very very difficult to do if you read each of these in their proper context. To give a small and brief example, in the gospel of John alone, you will read Jesus saying his Father, *the* Father, is the only true God (John 17:3). You will also read John, the author of the gospel himself, saying thay he intended his readers to believe Jesus is the Messiah, God's son (John 20:31-32). Any calm, open minded reader taking John seriously would hesitate to assume so strongly that John 1 is definitively calling Jesus God the creator, when Jesus himself seperates himself from being "the *true* God" and the author of the book himself asking his readers to come to a different conclusion than that. Not to mention all throughout the gospel Jesus is constantly telling others he is only receiving his powers and words from his Father and doesn't have any of it inherent in him, and also freely saying that he shares the same God as all of us.

[@gideonopyotuadebo2304]

When Paul with his antillaw gospel contradict, rebel against and blaspheme the law of God Yehovah the lawgiver and covenantgiver, you must make a choice between God Yehovah and Paul, which you must believe and which you must follow

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@gideonopyotuadebo2304 To clarify, Paul was not anti-law. He believed there was a law of God, just that it was no longer the one Moses gave. He understood and believed that God had given a new "law", new "instructions" and "words" through the Messiah, and that he and everyone must believe in and obey that new law to ensure salvation in judgement day. 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. It is certainly without question wrong to say Paul was anti-law.

[@bukidnon-elvinnoelbuhain4461]

I hope you would listen to our church--the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ).

[@LittlelightM]

This is gymnasia.

[@kenredbourn6741]

NON-SENSE.....COL.1 Pertains MAINLY to the GENESIS-CREATION, but also to the NEW-CREATION. The ETERNAL-WORD was neither a person nor a son until 2000years-ago, but the same Eternal-Word that Created the Universe millions or billions of years ago, is the exact-same Eternal-Word that was manifested in the Man Christ Jesus 2000years-ago. The NEW-Creation is NOT-yet Fully-VISIBLE,....also Principalities and Powers include Satan and demons who are OBVIOUSLY NOT in the NEW-Creation, but rather were created millions or billions of years-ago

[@mitchellc4]

I think the idea is the authority structure In the new creation, angels, powers, etc are all subject to Christ

[@kenredbourn6741]

@@mitchellc4 Mitchell....It is BOTH-Aspects. It is very-wrong to say that it is ONLY-ONE-Aspect when CLEARLY it pertains to TWO-Aspects. Just-Like ANTHONY and DAN DENY the 30AD Aspect of The KINGDOM, and ONLY Promote The 2030AD Aspect of The KINGDOM. BOTH...ASPECTS....ARE....TRUE.

[@mitchellc4]

@@kenredbourn6741 I’m not sure what both you are referring to? The context of the passage is the RISEN Jesus The firstborn from the dead I think the entire context is the New Creation Do I deny any possibility that the Genesis creation is the first part? No But I don’t think it is The context is the RISEN Jesus And there’s no mention of “earth, trees, birds, animals” etc The things you think of with Genesis creation The things mentioned are authority structures

[@albertovaldez5444]

I believe that when the Bible says “the first born of all creation”that is what it means. Not born in a physical literal way, but rather in the mind and heart of God. So the first thing God thought about before thinking of anything to create, He thought of His son, and how it was through him that God would have a bigger family. Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, but he is also the firstborn of all creation.

[@follow_the_way]

You have to do exegetical gymnastics instead of reading the plain words of the bible to come up with the theory that oneness preach on Colossians 1. What a mess. Jesus is God. Praise the triune God.

[@mitchellc4]

Hello Nobody is promoting oneness This passage is talking about the RISEN JESUS A pre existing Jesus before Genesis can’t be the firstborn from the dead The Risen Jesus, post resurrection Also God can’t die So God can’t be the firstborn from the dead

[@follow_the_way]

@@mitchellc4 Are you back with your false theologies.

[@leenieledejo6849]

@@follow_the_way Exegetical gymnastics is what you have to do to claim "Jesus is God". Who is he speaking to in John 17? Why on earth would the epistle writers separate them in the introduction paragraph of almost every NT letter? If anyone was bound to say in black and white that "Jesus is God", it would have been the epistle writers but they do not. Quite the opposite. On every page. Jesus refers to himself as "the son of God" almost 80 times and the "son of man" the same amount. To imply he was lying or being purposely ambiguous is blasphemous and is a silly notion invented by men who don't know him. He was 100% transparent in his earthly ministry and NEVER purposely ambiguous or coy. He applauded Peter for declaring who he is in Matthew 16:15-18. To contradict this is blasphemy. To say he is God DIMINISHES him (and God) and in effect denies his birth, ministry, death and resurrection. When you are born of God yourself and the Holy Spirit indwells (definition of a Christian in John 1:12-13, 1 John 3:1-2 & Romans 8:9) then you totally get what it meant that Jesus was "the firstborn of many bretheren" (Romans 8:29). God is ALWAYS referred to as "father", Jesus is often referred to as "brother" but NEVER father. If you humbly ask that the Holy Spirit to guide you into all Truth, you will be guided (as Jesus commands in John 14:26 & 16:13). If you choose to live in sin and/or you keep going to a man for your answers, you'll never be guided into all Truth. "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" (1 John 2:22-23) "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. ****Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God****" (1 John 4:2-3, 9-12, 14-15) "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true [i.e GOD], and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God (who GAVE US JESUS CHRIST), and eternal life" (1 John 5:1, 5, 10-13, 20)

[@timothys4864]

Jesus is the creator in Col 1:16-17.

[@TheUnchangeableWord]

Jesus the Firstborn of All Creation Paul knew what he was talking about in Col 1:15. Where he says, Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:18, Paul is not saying Jesus has preeminence or first place in everything; therefore, God says he is the Firstborn of all creation. No! Paul said he is the Firstborn of All Creation; therefore, he has preeminence. Firstborn means firstborn in all cases throughout the Bible, and each has been appropriately placed within its context and should be reviewed within its context. Colossians 1:18 He is also head of the body, the church, and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead so that He will come to have first place in everything. Here we read Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. Paul is saying that Jesus is the firstborn human alive unto God. This does not say he was born again as Jesus was sinless from birth and unto death. He was alive when he died. In other words, his blood was not tainted by sin. Yet Jesus died, or better said, he gave up his life/blood. He was always alive. This is one of the reasons Jesus shared the story about Lazarus and the rich man. When you die, you will always be you, spirit, soul, and body. Jesus tells us exactly what happens after death. He takes all the mystery out of the life-death theories. The secret to Col 1:15 is about the belly button. Jesus had a mother. Adam did not. Stay with me. The first Adam did not have a belly button, but he did have life. Adam and Eve were not born. Genesis 2:7-8 And God formed man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life/blood, and man became a living soul. And God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Leviticus 17:11For the life (God’s Life) of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement. As we can see, the first Adam was created and not born, thus no belly button. God placed his life/ blood/ seed into Mary/mankind (virgin birth). Acts 20;28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He (God) purchased with His blood. The last Adam. (Jesus Christ) Creation/Mankind after the fall of Adam/Creation. Everyone after the fall of mankind/first Adam was born of sin and separated from eternal life with God. We were not created, we were born of Adam after the fall, and we were of our father, the devil. This is why we needed a new life/a new Father. John 8:43-44 ”Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.” But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ ( by grace you have been saved), Ephesians 2:4-5 Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “ Abba! Father!” If God adopted us as our father, this would mean we had a different father before being adopted by God our Father. (We were dying as our blood/life was tainted by sin, and we were no longer part of the living/ God’s creation/life.) My words, not the Bible. God did not create the fall of man. Nor did God create the results thereof. The fall of man was not part of the six-day creation. But God did plan for it. 1John 3:8-10 The one who practices sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. By this, the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister. Sin is Passed on by the Father/Male Romans 5:12-14 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned- for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. So with that said, Jesus was the first person of all creation who was born as a human alive unto God since the first created Adam. Jesus was the only person to be Born without sin in his life/blood after the fall of Adam. Thus Jesus had a belly button as he was born of a woman/virgin birth after the fall of Adam. Jesus was the Firstborn of all creation. The First Adam was the FIRST creation. The Last Adam was a NEW creation. The first human BORN without sin. Now we know why Jesus had to be born of a virgin and how Jesus was created sinless. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. Therefore the woman should have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originated from the man, the man also has his birth through the woman; all things originate from God. 1 Corinthians 11:8-12 Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Both the first Adam and the last Adam had unblemished blood/life from God flowing in their veins. There are only two Adams mentioned in the Bible. The first Adam and the last Adam Jesus Christ. There is no second Adam Thank you. Enjoy His Word.

[@follow_the_way]

So many things wrong in this post that are not biblical.

[@TheUnchangeableWord]

@@follow_the_way Can you share a couple of things that wrong with my post? This would be very to help correct any errors I may listed. Thank you for help

[@follow_the_way]

@TheUnchangeableWord I will on a Zoom call per my page. Are you willing to schedule a discussion?

[@TheUnchangeableWord]

@@follow_the_way I am willing here to what mistakes I have made openly and in writing. Thank you for the offer. I would like to understand your thoughts on the topic a little more as it sounds like you have better handle Col1:15> Thank you

[@follow_the_way]

I do discussions on zoom. Are you up for it or not?

[@timothys4864]

Sadly this video is very wrong. Be careful people of what they say here.

[@stephenwilford919]

Dear Timothy S, I believe I know WHY You are So concerned - worried - by this video Teaching. It is Not Wrong, the problem for "the Trinity" teaching IS that It Is NOT True-Bible Correct Teaching - It Only Apears To Be! because S o o h Many people Are 'Expected' to just accept it - simply because It's BEEN the Belief For So Long!! Constantine 1st foolishly FORCED That Belief onto the New Church (That Had Been Begun by GOD on The Day of Pentecost) When Half of It KNEW IT WAS VERY WRONG!! MOST of That 50% of The CHURCH Were the early (first) Believers Who were In The Holy - Land! - The People Of THE Old Testament! Who KNEW GOD'S HOLY SCRIPTURE!! When T,hey Understood IT Correctly! They KNEW ....GOD - HIMSELF - Was NOT going to be The Promised Messiah - The Agent of (For) Salvation. GOD WAS The PROVIDER And OVERSEER Of THE PLAN. But It WOULD HAVE BEEN ILLEGAL FOR HIM TO BE THE MESSIAH - HIMSELF!! THAT'S WHY Half Of The TRUE CHURCH - KNEW It WAS a Wrong Belief!!! What The Teaching of this Video IS Teaching IS - NOT That Christ Jesus Is a Co (equal) Creator With GOD, But - The Means - Of THE NEW RE- CREATION!! Think of NESTED - Tables, or - the "Russian Dolls". It's GOD'S Overall Plan - To Successfully ACHIEVE His GOOD PURPOSING! Through - The Literal Achievement Of Jesus CHRIST - Winning Salvation FOR Us!! Become A Winner - RE- Examining THE Holy Scriptures - For YourSELF!!

[@timothys4864]

@Milk Eh 30 The person making this video does not teach what the bible teaches. That Jesus is eternal God. That is contradictory to the bible.

[@timothys4864]

@Milk Eh 30 Several contradictions with your last comment. I will start with 1. You said "I believe Jesus is eternal God but I don’t believe he existed with Yahweh in a God Head. The bible teaches that he was made… " How can Jesus be eternal and also be created. That is a contradiction.

[@timothys4864]

@Milk Eh 30 So if Jesus was a created being, how can He be the creator?

[@timothys4864]

@Milk Eh 30 John 1:1-3.

[@timothys4864]

Jesus is God. Praise the triune God.

[@upclosepersonal]

Shut up. Get lost