Creating an Ultimate Miter Saw Fence! Did I just crack the dust extraction code for a Miter Saw?

[@TheClashen]

Being a retired engineer coming from an industry in which ventilation and extraction was something we put a lot of effort into I find your videos excellent. There are a few videos out there of woodworkers looking for solutions to this issue. If could be as bold to make a suggestion or two. As your design using acrylic allowing you to see more clearly the nature of the extraction has some advantages worth exploiting. I would suggest to anyone working on this issue to use a smoke generator to see your airflow patterns. This would allow you to see were you are promoting laminar flow rather than turbulent flow. I always found this an interesting subject all these years ago in University, Reynolds numbers and all that. I would be interested though a wee test on the holes you placed on your fence, you rounded over the holes on the inlet side but also on the back, not sure rounding the holes on the inside is an advantage as this will possibly help develop turbulent flow characteristics. Basically you are wanting to develop an extraction path withe the least number of expansion voids and with as little pipe surface roughness that you can. I look forward to seeing your beautifully crafted systems and how they work. Keep these videos coming thank you

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks Kenny, I made the holes round at the inside because they have to make a turn to the dust extraction pipe, and this way, my thinking is there is a little bit less resistance. My experience with a turbulent flow, in this case inside the Fence extraction, is, that it will better clean the whole inside. So, I do not see it as a benefit. But I lack the knowledge to create an airstream the way I would prefer. So, it is more try-and-error based. But I will thank you for your comments, I find it interesting and will keep this in mind. Especially a smoke generator is something that would also be interesting to show on a video how things go. Thanks Again.

[@TheClashen]

@@HookedonWood Hi Dennis, I nearly added the comment about the advantages of rounded edges on the outlet of a hole myself. However I do try not to be long winded in my reply’s however being brief in comments is not a strong point of mine. Like you say it is an advantage for a change of direction of flow. However as I am sure you are aware, is you are adding a feature to reduce the negative affects of a part of the design which is the change of direction. The sharper the change of direction the more issues you will normally encounter. Turbulent air flows ie Reynolds numbers greater than 2000 can be used to advantages in some scenarios but in your designs I think this would not be of benefit however I will have a longer think on that. I used to use as an example to young engineers dirty cars that you need to wash. Which areas does the grim settle and why? Which areas do you have to clean out the dirt and leaves and why is that the case, if you had the object in a wind tunnel test what would you expect to see with the direction of air flows. I liked to think of it as rolling a marble you want to get from point A to point B with as little loss of momentum and energy as you can. Once it starts bouncing around in your pipe you have less control on it and it’s destination and is less likely to end up in your desired location.

[@timforgot]

@@TheClashen It's remarkable how little innovation there has been in the woodworking tool industry over the last 70 years, especially wrt dust extraction. I mean, the 'dust pumps' are still for sale everywhere, so , presumably, they're being sold. I very much appreciate this conversation - both your expertise, Kenny, and Dennis's ingenuity. Thanks to you both. 🖖

[@timforgot]

BTW, Dennis, I now have two 3-motor Camvacs in my ~2000sf workshop, and they are amazing, replacing much larger machines and with much less noise and better results. They're each hooked up to an XL Dust Deputy (one of those for each) and I added a MERV-15 filter (12x24 - overkill, but they're cheap/ubiquitous and have no chance of restricting airflow) to my version of the 'sound reduction' outlet box that you made a year or so ago. That way I don't lose any heat in the winter, but still have clean air. In the summer, I vent outside.

[@HookedonWood]

@@timforgot Great to read this! I still love them also I will design a new whispering box because I have a nice new idea about that :-) But I see the benefits of a larger High pressure system. It is some much more forgiving for duct design of your shop. That is why I think although they may perhaps have less of a CFM, in the end, I think it will be higher at the machine site compared to a High Volume system. And with two off them in your shop, you take it seriously 🙂

[@tonyzeh]

I did your zero clearance set up from your older video and instead of using a dovetail. I use domino's that connect the inserts to the side fences. I keep one fence stationary as a repeatable alignment, slide the fence over, to inset the zero clearance and then slide the moveable fence back in place to lock it in. Because of the thickness of the MDF, I do lose the ability to use the stock hold downs. This is a nice alternative. I will never go back to having a miter without the back zero clearance. Thanks!

[@FormBuildDesign]

This fence looks like an artwork. Great stuff

[@james_860]

Dennis, Great video…definitely not a waste of time. What you created is very much functional and a beautiful piece of art. Thank you for sharing.

[@jovar7545]

Coming back after a year I really enjoyed this video! Thank you for the innovation. You are great

[@robthewaywardwoodworker9956]

Well, whatever you decide, you've made a couple of pieces of art, for sure! Very cool design and execution.

[@barrydoxseyuk]

Great effort! Success or failure is a growth in knowledge and understanding. When using mdf, in my opinion, the control of dust is paramount. Love the use of all materials, colours, and strengths.

[@jamesg2382]

Nice work, great that you can be honest about how successful the project was. Thank you

[@dominicmancini5013]

Great piece of engineering there! Hats off 🙌🏽

[@Faber_Nox]

Best dust extraction seen yet for a mitre saw, good job

[@rossen_nikov]

You have proved it useless, but you've done it with so much passion and ingenuity that at end it starts to look a real success. :) Respect for the perseverance and precision you have put!

[@HookedonWood]

😀😀

[@timforgot]

@@HookedonWood The solution is to ditch the kapex and get the Makita 😂

[@frederickmichaud6783]

Always such inspirational craftsmanship Dennis!

[@bartjongsma7137]

Again it still keeps getting better and better. Thanks Dennis

[@Will-hg2xl]

Don't lose track of the fact that there are two types of dust we are trying to deal with. Most importantly is the fine stuff we are likely to breathe in. Secondly, the heavier particles which make a untidy mess around the saw. The fine dust requires 95% of our attention. The other stuff can easily be sucked away with a conveniently located flexible hose every so often. But dayyym, it looks pretty Dennis. Great video!

[@garyknable1155]

Love the fence and hold down design very nice and that is a finally a solution part

[@SaultiBalldeip]

The perforated fence you have created there on the right side of the video was actually already done by Frank Haworth. About a year or two ago. He created almost an identical setup with the vacuum attached. Just an FYI

[@dondavis769]

Dennis I love your videos, am so glad I discovered you on KZbin, I’m very jealous of your abilities, skill and video making talent, I wish you sold more of the products you make-like this miter saw fence! I don’t have the access to many of the tools you use, like the laser-or now that I’m not working (long story) the budget to acquire them. Thanks for sharing with us scrubs!

[@todddonovan9780]

Dennis, you always make me laugh with your enthusiasm! You've such a positive personality. Thanks for your videos.

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks for your comment. Appreciated🙏

[@michaelgrandinetti3170]

Good morning Dennis. Simply. genius!!! You bring such an exciting drive to having a "better" Miter Saw and in all honesty, a better workshop experience. Thank you for all your efforts.

[@bradleytuckwell4881]

It is the most messiest tool in the shop when it comes to dust so even if it’s just a slight improvement to dust extraction that’s a win and I think you have achieved that Dennis so well done. And yes you have inspired me to try and improve mine.

[@bradleytuckwell4881]

@@daverowe4566 oops I forgot about the lathe yes I do but I should use it more. And your right it is as messy

[@HookedonWood]

@@daverowe4566 🤣🤣

[@mikelastname]

So much fun to watch and those acrylic parts for the fences looked magnificent. I will be doing the zero clearance fence but have decided that the only effective way to remove that dust is to put the saw in a giant acrylic box like a fume hood.

[@BarrySumpter]

Same here. I'd love to see your design.

[@Arcarius76]

Once again, your video inspires and makes me think again about my shop. Your attention to details and your ability to design something that looks like a work of art is amazing! Thank you for your continual work in producing these videos. I love it!

[@MikeProjects_MP]

a pleasure to see you in action. everything is very good explained! thanks for sharing it with us :)

[@markpapp8784]

Another fine video; thanks. I would never make the under-saw box like that because I am clumsy and the box would soon fill with tiny (but probably vital) things that my clumsy fingers would drop! I'll certainly think about fence extraction - what a great idea.

[@Raul28153]

I like it. I especially like the Zero clearance insert. My Bosch Glide would be very well served by a set up similar to that, and I can create a replaceable ZCI for various cuts. The Festool does such a good job on the Duct control that you efforts were only able to produce a marginal improvement. The Glide is a dust monster.

[@paultatangw5497]

Your work always looks like a piece of art! Well done, Dennis. Love your content!

[@fivedays68]

i just admire your channel, its so informative and well produced. well done Dennis 🙂

[@BarrySumpter]

Fantastic vid. Thanks for the time and effort. Would be happy to pay for plans.

[@BarrySumpter]

LOL! Intended to recreate this mod. So Spent a day creating a model of the left and right fence in Sketchup. Only to find out he's removed the fence entirely. LOL! But I've never ever post that publicly.

[@tpaulsmith7194]

Beautiful work as normal, Dennis!

[@raymagini8994]

Although not the result I was hoping for it was a great video! I really like that you admitted that it isn‘t worth it instead of selling it as a great success. 👍🏻 for your honesty! This is why I trust your reviews😊 Also it saved me a lot of time, because I don‘t need to rebuild my miter saw station 😂

[@glynprice3815]

Nice work Denis. Thank you for sharing your skill.

[@rickflournoy7556]

Great idea for dust collection. I plan to use your idea and experiment further on my own miter saw. Thanks for the inspiration.

[@andrewsmall2718]

Great video Dennis. I got a lot from this one. As someone from a designer background I appreciate the time and effort that goes in and you don’t always achieve the result you were looking for. But the are always great learnings to take from it. My mantra has always been to try to keep it simple and always be prepared to go back in order to move forward. Knowledge and expertise come from exactly this kind of project. Invaluable and great to see you doing this stuff, with finesse and attention to detail. Keep them coming Dennis. 👍

[@terrmaso]

Always love to see your creations and am constantly amazed at the engineering behind it. I just wish I could find that amazing MDF you use.

[@ellaarchbold8683]

Fantastic content 👍well done for your efforts

[@antonoat]

Hi Dennis, I don’t know if you realise but you are creating the sexiest looking woodshop on the whole of the internet 🤣😂. The black Valchromat with the other choices of materials looks amazing and now bringing Acrylic into the equation surely there are no limits! Really enjoy seeing your inspiring projects, thank you so much for sharing them with us, have a great weekend! 👏👍😀

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks! I indeed starting to realize it is becoming a dream workshop! The crazy thing is, it inspires myself to continue. Love what I am doing

[@ronboe6325]

In any event; those fences look great! Zero clearance works great - so some small wins there. Thinking out loud, maybe a short vacuum hose attached to the base that you can manipulate by hand after a few cuts to clean up the stubborn dust the extractors don't get. Old school, but being right at hand, maybe good enough.

[@petenelson8136]

Again, another excellent video. I love how you approach woodworking, and your ceaseless drive to keep your shop free of dust.

[@idlersdream826]

Amazing design yet again Dennis and yes you have inspired me to improve the fence on my Makita saw with zero clearance and those clamps 👍

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks, good luck!

[@MrPatdeeee]

As always Dennis is a NONE Finer person. Thank you kind Sir for sharing your incredible talents. I would love to meet you and see your woodworking building sometime in the future. And give you the tip of my hat for what you have done for us. Thanks again.

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks for your kind words! Always appreciate your comments 🙏

[@Toyotajunkie]

That's a lot of work you went through to make so many versions and upgrades! But it does look terrific and I am definitely wanting to do something similar! I can't find black MDF around me (for a decent price/quality ratio) but I absolutely love the look of all your creations and very much wish I could achieve it. I guess stains will have to suffice. Ha ha! Thank you so much for the time, effort, expense, AND the inspiration!

[@norm5785]

Looks really great. Nice project to consider doing. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay war, safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia

[@janvisser6643]

Weer een geweldige video! Prachtig hoe je steeds weer probeert problemen op te lossen en vooral op een originele manier. En het design is echt Dennis!

[@peterkelly8953]

Great work Dennis, I have a very old DW703-XE & have balked at removing the factory fence. I have access to a 3D resin printer & will give it a crack!!

[@docmacwoodwerks]

I already shared this to my group! Thanks for the nice video and cleverly done woodshop contraptions. Me too hates dusts to the extreme.

[@HookedonWood]

Hi Dennis, thanks for sharing this video! that is a great help for me!

[@robertkrueger3902]

your builds are AWESOME.

[@rashidtayidi8370]

Wow! Amazing tenacious creativity! Festool seriously needs you on their design team!

[@julesmo1]

Outstanding, your designs are amazing

[@JanikMalorny]

Absuluty amazing! Thank you so much sharing this you inspired me!!!

[@jamesgray3057]

excellent video, you have inspired me to make some changes to my mitre saw

[@Malakawaka]

I loved the clamps.

[@nirgosh]

Great video for a noble cause... The following comes to mind: Inlets in the fence might be too many - creating turbulent airflow. I'd think of trying staggered horizontal slots concentrating at the bottom of the fence. Also I think of a system that allows to seal the zero clearance slot behind the workpiece - which usually engages not more than 6" of the cutting capacity. Don't give up.

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks Nir! For now I want to enjoy and I take your advice when I try again next time!

[@TheYannci]

Dennis, thank you for your great videos!

[@mauserkk98]

If nothing else it simply looks great .

[@geraldbullardjr]

Some amazing work here, ty for this :)

[@crisilinca9290]

Hi Denis ! You KILLED it !

[@johanfmatthee7328]

Sir, you are absolutely amazing!

[@johanfmatthee7328]

Inspiring for sure.

[@mrgunn2726]

Glad to have you back?

[@Travmoral]

Love the content! Keep up the good work. Chicago, IL

[@peternatoli2555]

Verry nice ,Dennis. I thought years ago to recommend that dust holes be cut through the top surface of a table saw where the dust goes most as you have done in front of the mitre saw. Dennis, what do you think of plumbing the space under the zero clearance insert for dust? I notice that the cup under the base of festool routers does not catch all the dust. Could you design a catcher a bit like the Festool but, with a small dust tube strategically positioned in it, to intensify the vortex allready in the opening in the router base when the motor is on. Peter Natoli

[@lureup9973]

Dear God!…when your vacuum hose stuck to the floor I nearly shat myself..that’s some serious suckin power right der!😂

[@steveferguson1232]

Adding a useful fence with the hold downs and zero clearance is great but incorporating dust extraction into it also is even better. When you cut the acrylic were the sides already that polished or did you smooth them up. The acrylic is such a fancy touch

[@HookedonWood]

Depends on the acrylic used. The more expensive one is very brilliant. Later I bought some cheaper acrylic that didn't cut as nice and did not have that nice brilliance to it. But to answer your question. No I did not treated it.

[@DonJohn87_YT]

though not entirely successful it really was a great end result, and a facinating watch!

[@p8ntblr1]

Do you sell the plans for the mitersaw fence? Do you or can you include the svg files for them?

[@pauldent3059]

These look awesome

[@JN2023]

Great video! Miter saw dust is a tough problem. If absolute zero dust is the aim also air pressure from the operator side of the fence in two different angles needs to be added in combination with the suction from behind the fence and from the table. Of course then the solution start to become rediculous. Perhaps good enough, all things considered should be the goal.

[@HookedonWood]

I think you are right

[@JN2023]

@Hooked on Wood I also meant that your solution seems to be the most effective on KZbin in what is feasible and this without over-engineering. And that is impressive in itself. Thanks again! for the video; looking forward to the next one.

[@BigDan1190]

I know there are obviously some visible shavings/chips left on the surface, these aren't a problem - its the dust that you can't see that will harm you and it seems like that will be extracted with your set up. Giving a surface a brush down every now and again is fine, its breathing in the fine dust that you can't ignore.

[@dmmflys]

Awesome video as always thx for your efforts

[@dieholzstube]

Thats... I can't describe it hahaha. This is absolutely incredible haha😅. Design meets function !

[@pjp1184]

Great video…..are you planning on offering any build plans. Thanks

[@je-fq7ve]

you have such a powerful vacuum system you could also use it as a vacuum hold down for you miter saw or drill press.

[@larion3296]

Very interesting work!

[@tcbridges]

I like the black mdf you use there. Here in the US we can’t get that material. All we have I’d standard MDF or black and white top coat MDF. It looks like yours is a lot easier to work with

[@1975CMS]

I consider the 'miter saw dust problem' a pick your battle situation. I choose a $4 broom from Walmart and move onto something more important. But your dedication is truly amazing.

[@HookedonWood]

I think you are right about the "Pick your battle" situation.

[@jaapvanklaveren6929]

Dank voor je video. Gaaf te zien hoe diep en grondig je naar verbeteringen zoekt. Ik ben ook verbaast dat de fence afzuiging niet werkte. Zelf ben ik veel met flow en het coanda effect bezig geweest. Heb toen een venturi ontworpen en gemaakt die mbv perslucht 70% Vacuum haalde. Wat ik nog zou proberen is om met een zwakke overdruk lucht stroom het stof richting je afzuiging te sturen. Nogmaals dank voor je gave en nuttige video

[@rodneyhightowerjr.4327]

Great job! What is the black MDF material you're using? I need that

[@dfs7979]

Neat idea. I am jealous of your black MDF. I can't find anything like that in the Midwest United States.

[@michael.schuler]

I am a big fan of your posts and detailed logical approach. As a professional finish carpenter, I am challenged to provide optimal miter saw dust collection/containment while working on site in customer's' homes. Such work involves constant angle changes including odd miter and bevel angles. Has your research produced any designs capable of accommodating such rapid angle changes over the saw's entire range of angular motion? Thank you.

[@markbarrett1632]

That is dedication 👍

[@paulsmith-wx9qz]

To me it looked like a dam good and nice looking fence

[@HookedonWood]

thanks

[@wyngaart1]

Hi Dennis, for the dustextraction in the fence, what if you make the holes on an angel so the are directed more at the sawblade.

[@naimaaouni6881]

Ben altijd onder de indruk van uw creativiteit!

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks, leuk om te lezen👍

[@onecarwood]

Great video as always!

[@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter]

Maybe the side fences could simply be hollow with vac ports at each end. Would be easy to execute. Only drawback is on bevels I usually need to take my side fences off. If there was a way to put them behind that could work too. Could also cut a hole on the underside of your saw with a vac port that catches any dust that falls below the clearance plate. I might have to do some experiments. You have my gears turning.

[@HookedonWood]

I think indeed there are more ways of improving it. From the underside will become too complex for me.

[@denios36]

Have you thought about/tried angled dust extraction holes on the fence? The dust originates from the position of the saw blade, having holes that are angled to aim at that point should optimize suction I would think. Just an idea to waste some more time 😉

[@kevinwillis6707]

funny i was looking at the gweike cloud yesterday, seems good value for a powerful machine, and i like the enclosed work area., fence looks great dennis.

[@HookedonWood]

Hi Kevin, So far it is a very nice machine. There are some small things and I have to install a camera when you want to work with Lightburn. When I read how this should work I am afraid it will not be easy. But I will try next week. Hope to do a review next month. I think they will give me a discount code. So perhaps, you can use this for a better deal since you probably have to buy it online. But it is a big step forward from the lasers I tested before. I think this one is capable of running a small business.

[@kevinwillis6707]

@@HookedonWood they have certainly come down a lot in price since i first looked at them 7 or 8 years ago they wanted $10,000 for that size of desktop machine.Omtech do a similar sized laser that looks almost identical, but dont see it available in europe yet. im awaiting delivery of a new cnc so maybe the laser will have to wait awhile, cheers.

[@ClausAndersen-iz8zl]

Ore those DN50 pipes you have for the KS60 and which blast gates are you using?

[@katekeough9819]

Great video

[@HookedonWood]

Thanks, Kate!

[@saschavolling7808]

Hi Dennis nice update do you make plans for it for the community would be cool. Very nice through thought.

[@PaganWizard]

This is incredibly impressive. You really could make a good profit by selling the acrylic parts, along with plans for us to build the rest ourselves. Many DIYers either cannot afford a CO2 laser cutter, or just cannot justify buying one. I saw that you were using colored acrylic accent pieces. Maybe you could give us a few different color choices, to compliment our miter saws, or color theme of our shops. I would choose blue, to compliment my Delta Cruzer miter saw, which has since been rebranded to Ridgid, it's the exact same saw with orange plastic coverings. It's a shame that full sheets of solid black MDF are not available in the USA. I really love the look, and would use it all over my shop. Staining MDF is OK, but as soon as something hits it, you have to do some touch ups.

[@markhagen7777]

Great beautiful work! I wonder how efficient the suction would be if you cut holes in to your zero clearance block perpendicular to the saw blade. Maybe I missed you doing that.

[@HookedonWood]

I did this with the design with the hold down clamps. But when the saw blades come near, the hood will cover these holes. I expected more from that. So, in my final version, I leave them away.

[@manofmystery5709]

I seriously need to find a source for this black MDF aka "hard MDF" here in the US. It looks like this MDF is more stable and able to be used as more than just surface scrap for workshop builds and jigs, while also being more aesthetic.

[@danmac4132]

i was able to source this in Seattle, WA. Best I could find was 5/8, but think for the majority of future projects like this, it'll be fine.

[@hwestra9581]

So at the end, buying a kapex is essentially cracking the code on dust extraction. Thanks for the extra argument of getting myself one, one day😅

[@HookedonWood]

Well, you basically summarized my whole video, which cost me lots of effort to create, in one short sentence :-) That said, you will love your Kapex one day!

[@hwestra9581]

Hahaha, yeah I'm sorry for the spoiler. Although your video is more then that! It's not a code but more of a formula on reaching the optimum between usability and dust extraction.

[@michaelsnelling2918]

Would be interested to know why you went for the Kapex 60 and not the 120?

[@HookedonWood]

@@michaelsnelling2918 That had all to do with the investment on that moment. But, I did only a few times needed the capacity of the 120. Which can be solved by turning the workpiece around. Now with my slider, I do not need a 120. But I think the 120 is better in every way, so when you think it is worth it and it fits your budget. I would opt for the 120

[@joeatkins4470]

Would you ever consider selling these for the K60? I for one would buy one

[@HookedonWood]

I will consider it. Have to make up my mind about it.

[@joeatkins4470]

@@HookedonWood let me know what you decide - thank you

[@Maurice510]

Hi Denis, I just wanted to thank you for all of the hard work you put into these videos and for having the bravery to take on solving dust collection, with a miter saw, and then share that it didn't achieve the results you were hoping for. Sometimes, a solution or improvement is incremental. One thought, after seeing your video on the table saw insert, I wondered if your design was inspired by the router table inserts made by Incra? I know you use those at the router table and, years ago, when I first got mine, I couldn't believe how much their design improved dust collection. This makes me wonder if there is an opportunity to improve dust collection, at the miter saw, where the zero clearance insert is? There is not a whole lot of surface space but that insert appears to be one of the culprits standing in the way of solving this problem.

[@HookedonWood]

When I will try again. I will consider your comments 😊. And yes, i think the incra inserts probably played a role.

[@joshb6897]

what is the black material that you used?

[@LeeMooEez]

Maybe inverted pyramid design for the bottom base part for passive dust collection + vacuum suction…so the angle and gravity will help you guide the dust..and maybe the air chamber design need to be studied more and use realistic aerodynamic principal design for that

[@Dandoestilla]

I made similar setup on the bottom on makita saw

[@MCsCreations]

Just brilliant, Dennis. Fantastic work! 😃 Thanks a bunch for sharing the whole process! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@stevei5130]

Hello Denis, you have chosen the smaller Kapex over the Kapex 120. Do you have a reason for the smaller saw? Thanks - Steve

[@HookedonWood]

That was mainly because of the price at that time