Dark Souls Lore - Creighton & Pate

Dark Souls Lore - Creighton & Pate
Today we'll be talking about the rascals of Drangleic! Creighton and Pate. There'll be a little talk concerning Cale too, as he is the one who makes some very serious accusations! But at least one of the trio is most likely lying to us... question is, which? Alternate title for this episode: CSI Drangleic. ZOOM. ENHANCE.
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[@Gracklef1int]

I do believe the Ring of Thorns belongs to Creighton as he is a spiteful one, but I think the man who escaped from his execution in Mirrah is Pate. Creighton doesn't strike me as a master of escapology for obvious reasons. :) Also, Pate gives you a full set of his gear complete with weapons. Why would he do that? I believe he does it in the hopes you will don the items and become the target of Creighton's wrath. As for Creighton's armor, I have a theory. That was the armor that Pate wore when he was in Mirrah committing murders. Perhaps he met Creighton in Drangleic--not in Mirrah--and gave him the armor as a "gift" to throw any lawmen off his trail. Pate is such a "generous" person, isn't he?

[@SilverMont]

Grackleflint Well, Pate's not the only one who gives you his armour/weapons. Even Benhart will give you his, despite earlier saying that "you'll have to pry it from my dead hands" etc

[@Gracklef1int]

Silver Mont I feel like context should matter in this case, even though it doesn't seem to matter in Benhart's. The context surrounding the act of him giving you his gear puts it in a different light. At least in my opinion.

[@pastadaddy564]

Silver Mont well, according to Benhardt of Homie quest you have to battle besides him 3 times and having him survive, so he gives you his set because he respects yoy and thinks of you as a true friend, but the pate theory is actually pretty solid, he wants creighton to kill you instead of him so thats a pretty good reason to hate him

[@daith_izumi]

Pate sounds as bad as Yurt the Silent Chief from Demon’s Souls

[@archermon373]

That may also tie into how creighton figures out pate is a backstabber, by bumping into cale, and being called a murderer, and then cale with his terrible memory, gets the names jumbled when he hears a guy dressed as a murderer introduce himself

[@TheLimecat100]

U wot P8

[@sebode87]

Raime The Fume Knight U wot P9

[@abunchofletters9507]

Blaze weed p9

[@Ghostly8895]

7:53 "I was born in the land of Mirrah Mirrah is also the home of an infamous killer" OHHHHHHHHHHH HE'S GOT THE RHYMES!

[@SilverMont]

+Jester J Awh snap

[@Ghostly8895]

+Silver Mont x'D it made me giggle

[@rodrigoparrapalma7673]

gg no re

[@Ghostly8895]

Rodrigo Parra Palma damn... it was a year ago e.e

[@DJ-eg1zg]

FROM THE WIKI: Cale the Cartographer claims that he saw a man that looked similar to a serial killer in Mirrah, and that his name was "Cray something". Cale is first discovered in the same area that Mild Mannered Pate is, whose equipment indicates that he might not be what he seems. Creighton's mask covers his face, so recognizing his face would be a difficult task, but his armor, weapon and physique might be easier to. Creighton and Cale do not have the same accent; Pate and Cale do. Creighton tells you that he thinks Pate kills people because he enjoys it. Pate's spear's description states that he has been involved in countless battles, and also that he has something to hide. His armour's description states that it was pillaged. Cale however says he saw a man who looked like a serial killer only after Creighton has been released. During his confrontation with Pate he shows complete, nearly psychotic determination to slay the man, while Pate tries to talk his way out of it. If he was a killer, the imitation knight's armor would be a good way to avoid suspicion among passer-by. In Creighton's dialogue he states that Pate wears a unique ring. During your first encounter with Pate though, he lies about the ring, claiming a man who was trapped left it behind. This may show that Pate does not want to be identified. Both encounters with Creighton are only comprised of him warning you of Pate and what he plans to do with him. However both encounters with Pate involve him directing you to a very dangerous/trapped area and is then surprised when you survive. It is worth noting that Creighton does not do anything to harm the player, whereas Pate sends the player into two different ambushes for "Treasure" and even Pates Chest down in the Brightstone cove is booby trapped.

[@illuminova]

+Damien T the times where pate lead us into traps, all he wanted was for us to die so he can pillage our corpses

[@DJ-eg1zg]

+illuminova Right!

[@a.7801]

+Damien T Effin hell. This is some interesting stuff. Guess i'm going with Creighton! Who did you go with ?

[@DJ-eg1zg]

+Nozzman i Creighton. Pate is obviously not what he appears to be. Creighton is the obvious one to be suspicious of due to his rough manner of speech and tough appearance, but Pate is actually the dangerous killer and his polite ways are just a facade.

[@a.7801]

Damien T Yeah, i feel creighton sounds way too reckless to be a serial killer. Pate seems to be more fit for that!

[@samuellacey5166]

Hello I'm Pate? I'm your friend, maybe, maybe not...

[@SomeGuy-qd3li]

Samuel Lacey (looks at the profile pic) (gasp) The forgotten legend

[@jasper714]

Samuel Lacey TRAITOR

[@rodrigoparrapalma7673]

+Mohamd Tahan Dont you fucking dare

[@sassyfrass5237]

But wait, he gave us the soapstone! he's like the new Solaire!

[@jayrosa7276]

I love happy souls

[@dekuscrub9583]

I always sided with Creighton, because Pate's voice has a very sinister undertone to it. Pate just always seemed to harbor ill intent for the player, so I killed him not Creighton.

[@SilverMont]

DaS3 makes it seem like Creighton was the bigger rascal, all along!

[@alexdotson8744]

what is DaS3??? is that dark souls 3

[@SilverMont]

Alex Dotson Yeah

[@alexdotson8744]

ok thank you and great videos the lore of some of the characters is really cool

[@smellslikeangryfish875]

I thought I was the only one! I don't know if it's just paranoia, but I never trusted Pate. Even though he helps with some of the bosses, I can't seem to see him as friendly as other people do. Have a like.

[@plinkthenecrobird8851]

#TEAMCREIGHTON

[@christophernathanael728]

Graham flakes yeah!!!!!!!!!!

[@darisurennamjil2235]

Yes kill them both or let it play it out

[@jacob_vt]

Slimy toad

[@F20SW]

#TeamCreighton

[@ironfreakingtarkus3853]

+Patrik Briso #Creightonforpresident

[@ironfreakingtarkus3853]

Patrik Briso #yesplz

[@ironfreakingtarkus3853]

Patrik Briso #iwantitnow

[@ironfreakingtarkus3853]

Patrik Briso #OKEHEREITGOES

[@erickgabrielmarciano1924]

Creighton wields the Dragonslayer's Crescent Axe, which we can find in the Shaded Woods before approaching Shrine of Winter. If you read the description, it says it belonged to Shieldless Lothian, a famous warrior from Forossa and it even indicates that Lothian was never heard from again after he fought countless wars and was supposedly started hunting dragons. How it ended into Creighton's hands is anyone's guess. Also, Pate's gear, particularly his shield and spear indicates that he has "something to hide" and his armor description remarks that it "has gone modifications" pointing out that "perhaps this is pillaged." In my opinion, I think both have a dark and rather suspicious background which the game pretty much intentionally left out because that some of us may wonder that "what if we got the wrong guy?" if we chose a side in Tseldora. Personally, I find both of them hard to trust mainly because of my nature and because in the real world there are many ways for a criminal to escape retribution.

[@afrasiyabkhan3259]

basically it is heavily hinted that pate is actually the serial killer that cale was talking about, becoming a case of identity theft originally pate was supposed to killed benhart, who was supposed to be the father of creighton and this is where both the bluemoon and moonlight sword would've had a significant role

[@randallragle9187]

I believe they are both the serial killer. They worked as a team. When one got put in jail the other added in his escape. That's why they both no the chest is trap and why they both seam to be the real killer. They both say they traveled together after all For some reason they started to fight, maybe over loot or maybe they began hallow and more unstable. Anyways this is just my idea of it :D

[@KarmaHatesBlue]

Creighton always reminded me of Jason from the horror flicks. Not just the name rhymes but his mask and his axe and his possible status as a serial killer.

[@SilverMont]

+ZeroZeroOne Probably not a gross zombie though. Creighton seems to have flowing golden locks of hair.

[@KarmaHatesBlue]

Silver Mont Yeah probably just a coincidence of similarities, but still interesting.

[@TrempBoy2]

Funny, because his voice reminds me of Jason Statham

[@ryanbauer3680]

@@TrempBoy2 Now I want to see Jason Statham playing Jason Voorhees.

[@marcuskw93]

CSI Drangleic, HAHAHAHA

[@yedr8306]

I killed pate then took pates spear and backstabbed creight. Now they can fight in the underworld , if such exists in dark souls .

[@SuperKratosgamer]

+Muffin both will respawn at the bonfire and start fighting again.

[@217adaptiveperspective]

+SuperKratosgamer being an undead certainly could to some "interesting" instances

[@217adaptiveperspective]

+Chara Dreemurr *Lead

[@Dravianpn02]

@@SuperKratosgamer no they dont. Not if you kill both.

[@infernocop1009]

I'm with Creighton. He's violent, but openly so. He doesn't strike me as a liar, or anyone with the self-restraint and caution of a successful serial killer. Pate is too... mild mannered. Too calculated to be trusted.

[@SilverMont]

Inferno Cop I think Creighton was def lying about that ring, if nothing else

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

I like creighton more because (I have the feeling) he is telling the truth. No fancy words, he just tells you straight up what he wants to do: Kill Pate. Whereas Pate(ches) doesn't appear to be honest. Yes, Creighton may be a serial killer but I don't know about the crimes Pate did and hides from us.

[@hmmmooops]

Meh. Killed Pate on sight and Creighton because he wanted the ring. But I think Pate was to blame. His reaction when attacked is not that of an innocent man.

[@juhopirttilahti1797]

well no summon sign soap stones for you and no fist pump gesture for you

[@hmmmooops]

+Juho Pirttilahti I didn't own the game back then, it was cracked. Now that I bought it I let him live.

[@reporterid]

The ending of their quest almost says "they are both bad so who cares" but I think that the bad guy is Creighton because: 1- Pate leads us to traps, but he always warn us about them... since when is considered bad to warn people about traps? 2- Cale isn't a reliable witness, but he's the only one we have... he say Cray-something and talks about a knight in name alone, both things related more to Creighton than Pate 3- Creighton claims he's from Mirrah, but he's wearing a fake armor of a knight order from Mirrah and not a true one 4- Pate armor was "perhaps pillaged", but we too are pillaging armors from Drangleic 5- Creighton tells us that Pate lives in Brightstone Cove, but if he survive the fight he says "my bolt-hole down the way" and not "Pate's basement" Obviously I might be wrong, but those clues are really interesting...

[@SilverMont]

Relaxed Yeah, they are both "bad" to a certain extent. It's just choosing your own poison, huh?

[@reporterid]

Silver Mont That's what the game tries to tell us, in my opinion at least... in the end they both make us open a trapped chest and "laugh" at our "misfortune"... but if we don't consider that, Pate to me seems like a nice guy... and I too prefer the axe, but only because it's Lothian's axe! XD

[@xgreedxx]

I beleive that Creighton got to pates home and set a trap in one of his chests, same as he tried to set a trap for pate earlier but got stuck, meanwhile pate knowing of creightons ways, does what he always does, lets us clear the way through the traps, with the promise of the rewards inside.

[@Irishcrossing]

"Since when is considered bad to warn people about traps?" Easy, when you are trying to rid the blame of yourself if they escape. Ever heard of Half-truths? Its practically lying. That exact mindset of "well, he warned me, so I should have known" is exactly what Pate wants because he shifts the blame of him trying to kill and pillage you to yourself. It could be that Pate is indeed the murderer, but Creighton's obsession with killing Pate turned him into a monster as well, or he just can't bare to trust anyone else, even to a man who went so far as to help him kill his own rival. Besides, Creighton's face is never shown, but Pate's face is always shown, which leads me to believe that Cale was talking about Pate. Pate could be, or have been, using a fake name, or named himself Creighton when he was spotted by Cale.

[@reporterid]

How do you know the thoughts of a fictional character? And let me also make an example that you should understand... one night I hang out with some friends... right before going home, a storm breaks out... since I care about them, I tell them "Don't go too fast when driving home because the storm is really bad"... one of my friends ignores my advice and has an accident... is it my fault? or the one to blame is the guy that ignored my advice?

[@porci751]

I always though that Pate and Ceighton were partners of sorts. Besides the fact that Pate says they were traveling together, they both have the key to the stash in brightstone, and both seem to have the same awareness of the traps within it, as they have similar reactions to the explosion. My guess is that Creighton is the serial killer and kills due to paranoia, and that disorder, matched with Pate having that certain air of a puppeteer, drove him to plan an attack, however, Pate outsmarted him, trapped him, stole his ring as a trophy and resumed treasure hunting by himself. Pate was probably the plan maker and Creighton the one that actually executed it, and that is why we always meet pate near treasure, with the entire path to it figured out, but never really getting it

[@SilverMont]

Ricado Santos Makes sense to me.

[@Jarrod0067]

I am under the impression that Creighton could have been blamed for Pate's murders and locked up, which is why he's so sour about Pate double-crossing him. And honestly if you think about it, Cale is found in the forest of the fallen giants, not far from Pate, while Creighton is all the way through the locked rotunda pathway and locked up in Harvest Valley, so there is really no way that Cale could have ever seen Creighton. It is likely that he instead saw Pate, whom knowing he was under suspicion, claimed his name was Creighton I believe that the Pate and Creighton duo are both murderers, but Pate killed indirectly and slowly through use of the environment as he tries to do with the chosen undead. He relishes in watching others suffer, which is why he gets off on backstabbing Creighton. He's more amused than anything, and he doesn't seem to know that Creighton is after him. He shows no fear on his character at all until the end. If you survive his traps, he gains an ally for if anyone should should ever find out the truth. If you die, he gets all of your loot. Win-win situation Creighton is so damn salty that his dark side is more prevalent in dialogue, but he is genuinely fearful of being caught off-guard by Pate. While he is likely a person who murders for gain, he doesn't seem to hint at any motivation other than revenge. He wants the upper hand, so he intends on ambushing Pate at their hideout in Brightstone Cove When one of them is killed and you access the trapped chest, I'm thinking they'd expect you to die from it, thus tying up all loose ends. As an undead though, you are immune to death and just respawn, which may have been an oversight In the end, I am under the impression they both were on the run after murdering and looting corpses/houses, and Creighton was left behind as Pate's scapegoat It's like fucking Dark Souls Cluedo "I think the murderer is Pate in the Heide Tower of Flame with the Washing Pole"

[@porci751]

Jarrod0067 Very interensting points, I think it is very possible that they escaped from something, and that´s why they´re in drangleic. In fact, if i´m not wrong, the most valuable thing in the stash, the gloves, are being searched by a very wealthy man, maybe they stole it? As for the trap, I think that Creighton set it for Pate, but was outsmarted by him, as Creighton adimits to setting it with the intent to trap Pate before he was betrayed. As for Cale, you have an interesting thought, but, what if he heard from Pate that this Creigh person was a serial killer? That would match Pate´s personality and modus operanti, as he planted half truths in order to get others to do their biding In the end I still think they were a treasure hunting duo, with Pate using his mate willingness for violence as a way to get things done without getting his mild hands dirty, untill Creightons troubled mind tore them apart, and gave Pate an oppurtunity to escape with all their loot

[@porci751]

Anthony Thompson of course it is,otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it, but, each character tells you a different story and both are unrelliable sources and you could complete the game without hearing any of it

[@InfernoPlus]

'Pate's ineffectual spear' Bitches don't know bout the meta. :^)

[@SilverMont]

InfernoPlus I made this before it got buffed. When I made this, it was terrible.

[@InfernoPlus]

Yeah, was just havin a giggle m9

[@stratos9529]

InfernoPlus Was having a giggle? No fun allowed in DkS2 community, bitch. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@goatmilk09goatmilk]

InfernoPlus lol people who play with the meta are garbage.

[@stratos9529]

doduo dojack shut up lol

[@someduded6244]

Look guys, the real thing that happened is that Pate and Creighton were lovers. Pate and Creighton loved sharing blood with each other. While Creighton wasn't looking, Pate decided to check his pockets. In his pocket was the Engagement ring, it was so beautiful that Pate took it and started celebrating. Creighton got mad because he was gonna propose to Pate at that night.Lovers quarrel ok? You and your girlfriend also fights right? Now, they are gonna break up because of that ring.

[@prosthtm8516]

Some Dude :D dude that’s such a good theory 👌👌👌

[@threeoutchange669]

You hit the spot boy

[@jetlirlajqi6977]

Awww

[@IMayOrMayHaveNot]

Many people believe Pate because he warns us about traps, but that's EXACTLY why he's so much more dangerous than Creighton! He manipulates us into believing he's not at fault because people usually tend to give credit to those who warns them of trouble as being good-intended, and that's why Pate takes advantage of this mindset, it's his _modus operandi_: 1) He tempts the passerby with talk of treasure to encourage them to seek the treasure _he_ wants; 2) He warns about the trap to prepare the ground for his *plan B*; 3) Pate's acquainted with traps, so he knows there can only be 3 outcomes to it: - A. the passerby survives; - B. the passerby comes out injured; - and C. the passerby dies. This is where things get dark(er) 4) Pate's true intention is to use someone to disarm the traps for him so he can loot the treasure afterwards and, while he's at it, pillage the corpse!; 5) IF by some strike of luck the passerby survives, that's where he has already set *plan B* in motion! He makes them believe he did not mean any harm because "hey, he warned me about the trap, he's a nice guy!". Ignoring the loot is just a way for him to convince the victim further of this so he can have the passerby risk their neck AGAIN without questioning his trustworthy nature! This careful, conflict-avoiding behavior fits him perfectly.

[@65infanteria]

I think Pate is the killer. Creighton seems to me more like a thug who styled himself like a knight but kept his trusty axe. While Pate is always leading us to danger, only hinting at it as to not piss us off should we survive. Pate also gives us his armor and ring, which I take as a sign to throw off his pursuer. His manerism changes to a more confident and devious approach, whereas the first encounter he seemed like the swellest of guys.Also Cale saw the murderers' face but Creighton wears his face plate down. Perhaps Pate, recognizing his coloquial accent gave him the name of Creighton once he got caught and didnt kill him because he doesnt kill like that. My hipothesis is that Pate led Creighton into an ambush intending to loot his corpse (Patches style), but Creighton survived and being gruff as he is he didnt take to kindly to Pate's snarkiness as to his survival. Creighton began hunting him down until he trapped himself. And Pate gave us his armor to throw off the scent.

[@ohnoitsseth3710]

+65infanteria that is very good, and I agree with you, but one thing, are you team pate or Creighton?

[@Etidorhpa]

I don't think Cale was trying to remember the name of the killer when he was sayign crey... crey, I think he was trying to remember the name of the guy he saw who resembled the killer. He wasn't accusing him.

[@GunRunner106]

you know what would be funny... if the two of them would look alike... reason why creighton wears a fullface mask.... pate's the murderer, and cale saw someone who looks just like him - creighton....

[@Etidorhpa]

plot twist, they are twins and one of them framed the other

[@GunRunner106]

lol no i wouldnt go that far, he said they only meet while both were traveling - creighton did.

[@Etidorhpa]

I would go further. just give me an hour :P dark souls. prepare to exaggerate.

[@GunRunner106]

"someone call vati" ??

[@PonzooonTheGreat]

Then comes Dark Souls 3.... It was Creighton

[@favkisnexerade]

dark souls 3 is fan service and not canon

[@rothern3761]

Dark souls three kind of just skips dk2 for most lore reasons and is more a sequel to the first game. Besides, its been a few thousand years since then, Creighton had a lot of time to rack up a new kill list.

[@1irishshark]

For creighton axe it says "he used it to slay men" and seemingly invades you for no reason and also invades other girl with the blue sentinels

[@shem7146]

@@1irishshark That's Sirris of the darkmoon

[@shem7146]

Dark souls 3 is more connected to dark souls 1 because it's the beggining and the end

[@danielmuttock5772]

Creighton for me I just like his overall attitude to things swearing and what not its a nice change usually npcs in souls series are laid back and arent aggressive unless you provoke them but Creighton is like FUCK Y'ALL from the start apart from you his saviour. But thats just me I guess.

[@Eric4bz]

if you examine pate's spear, it reads "It is not always advisable to stand out. Especially if you have something to hide" Which leans towards that Pate might be the killer.

[@Silfsilfsilf]

I prefer Creighton, for his Jason Statham tough guy voice. His Armor is also cooler :)

[@FlameHidden]

Does anyone have access to the japanese dialogues? I think, from the many many many misstranslated things in this game, that the dialogue from Cale is also mistranslated. Maybe from a japanese phonology the "eight" in Creighton and the "ate" in Pate make the same sound. I suspect that in the japanese dub, Cale makes us think both of then can be the killer with a single kanji (or whatever the name of the symbols they use in the subtitles of the game) that has this "eight/ate" sound. Somethink like: "believe his name was…"eight/ate"…"ei/a"…err something-"eight/ate"…I believe… They shared…some resemblance, I…I think…

[@SilverMont]

Hidden Flame I don't think there IS a Japanese dub for Dark Souls II. I thought that Demon's and Dark both had English dialogue only - despite the game's Japanese origin. And I can't even begin to imagine what their names would sound like in Japanese. Pate would be like... "Peito" or something? lol I dunno.

[@FlameHidden]

Silver Mont You're totally right, there's no japanese dub, only subtitles. But since they screwed up things like "Writhing Ruins" and "Molten Earth" which are dialogue translations, I suspect any text I read in this game ever, because I will never know how much and where are the misstranslations.

[@SilverMont]

Hidden Flame I don't really know much about Japanese, but I hear it's a pretty hard language to translate and localise from English to Japanese because of... well, so many things. There aren't many games out there that were written in Japanese and come over well in English, unfortunately. I think Dark Souls fares quite well in that regard - Lost Odyssey incidentally, has some lovely writing.

[@lordadornable9044]

I think Pate is the Mirrah murderer because he escaped from them and Creightan fell into his own trap. While both are murderers Pate is more clever in his means of trying to dispatch you while Creightan is almost oblivious to you. Plus we can't trust Cale because he has no idea who he is do to going hollow and Creight rhymes with Pate so he could have messed it up

[@gerald3339]

+Preston Neilson I think he is lying. Remember Creighton never took of his helmet which covered his face while Cale says that he saw a man with a similar face.

[@elisolandersson2267]

I´ve sided with Pate every time :) The first encounter hooked me, he had the Dark Souls Soldier armor that followed me through the horror of my first character. He had the awesome looking spear, and even the pose itself which reminded me of a crestfallen man i once met. Finally I just really prefer Pate´s coldness (poison, traps and speech), Creighton seems to unstable. Thank you for a really nice analysis of this drama.

[@CardboardShroom]

its pate, ive learned to never trust a man with a spear...

[@Dr_Whoo7]

It was setteled in DS3, where you protect a poor lady before a serial killer - Creighton

[@sebastianvillar2884]

And thanks for spoiling

[@Dr_Whoo7]

+Sebastian Villar Only naive person believe creighton

[@JayWalkZ]

she wasn't a poor lady. She is also tasked to killed rosaria finger members. Many would say that kirk was part of her covenant because he felt bad for what happened to her. In a way, Creighton knows how it feels to be betrayed and sympathizes with her.

[@Dr_Whoo7]

Paper Kaine Pate never lied... there always was a treasure. He just didn't told you about some of the enemies... and the traps. That's all. Creighton wanted to trap Pate withnout any reason, and then went and kill him. Also, Creighton is wielding an Axe, whitch is consideret to be very agressive weapon. On the other hand, Pate is wielding a spear and a shield - very deffensive type of combat. I am not saying that he is not an evil man, but he didn't actually lied to you, and he is acting very defensively...

[@jaxa77ax26]

Dr_Whoo she isn't a poor old lady. She's very powerful and young. Ds3 is also after 2 so who knows if that wasn't someone disguised as Creighton

[@Innosgod]

Both are killers. Pate is like Patches in the first game: Will step over you to take what you have, with some differences. I believe Pate leads you into traps but warnig you about them because he is indeed chased by a killer. If you die because of the traps, he'll take your stuff. If you do not, he'll give you the soapstone to be able to summon you (potentially) in case Creyghton attacks him. After everything's over, he can lead you to a final trap, the treasure chest, and NOT warn you about it, because he doesn't need your help anymore. Creyghton is probably Mirrah's serial killer, and he has a grudge against Pate. That's the only reason why he doesn't kill you straight up when he sees you. He's just a killer, and has no excuse to kill you even. He'll just do it.

[@ThisIsPampkin]

Talking about Pate, Crei and Benny, I suddenly got this weird Idea: Pate was the serial killer on how he acts all good and shady like how serial killers love to hide something, and his Greatshield told us so. My theory: Pate Pillaged and modified an Armor set then left his Mirrah belongings behind, thats the one Benny looted and liked. In this Theory, Ceri might just be someone that has bad blood with Pate just like how Patches' Bad Blood with Lautrec. Problem with this Theory is the lack of evidence ingame and there's not really a real conclusive proof/evidence that either Pate/Creighton is the true killer. Oddly enough I find it hard to believe that if Crei is the serial killer, his hot blood attitude wouldn't have made him managed to survive this far.

[@dukeofburgundy4229]

May i ask, who is Benny?

[@ThisIsPampkin]

The Duke Benny of Jugo XD

[@dukeofburgundy4229]

JSPumpkinKing Ah, Of course! XD Silly me, i should have thought about that :P Sorry about that.

[@ThisIsPampkin]

The Duke lol dude nothing to be sorry about man, chill. ;)

[@AdlerSchwadron]

another thing is, cale or however the cartographer is called says, the saw a that serial killer. well pates helmet doesn't cover his face while creighton's does. the cartographer probablly was talking about pate even so he didn't know, that he switched names.

[@DRisky49]

Pate is the killer, but his name was crieghton and he wore the chain mail armor and masked helmet when he was killing people. A man witnessed his family get murdered and their family ring stolen and was unable to intervene. So the man wanders the world in search of his family's killer. Having little luck he comes up with a plan, he dons the name and armor of the murderer based on memory while he searches. Word spreads to pate that the murderer crieghton has been spotted in places at times he knew he wasn't there. Curious, pâté tracks down the imitator and the confrontation ends with crieghton tricked and locked in hunts mans copse and the rest is in the game

[@seanstefansson2021]

I feel that Pate is in fact the Killer that Cale speaks of and that the Armour that is worn by Creighton once belonged to Pate or "Crey...something." Pate seems smart enough to change his appearance if he was on the run for murder. Moreover, he is more than happy to give over a set of armor, a weapon and a ring to make ones character look like him, possibly hoping that his violent partner would kill them instead. Creighton, however, is just a violent thug. He claims he wishes to test his blade, seek out challenges, not the actions of a serial killer. A violent, brutal individual yes, but one who would attack those he deemed... strong. So Pate, taking on the name to escape from Mirrah then teams up with an easily tricked partner, perhaps gives him weapons or armor to look like him, then stabs him in the back. And then we show up.

[@SilverMont]

Sean Stefansson Poor Pate! Everyone thinks he's a killer, when Creighton is the one straight up taking axes to people.

[@TheAstronomer100]

I clipped my camera through pated helmet and, yes, he is bald. The helmet was an interesting choice on the devs' part, and I think they gave it the him so he wouldn't be met with distrust from the older fans.

[@reconarmor99]

I just thought of this so it may have some holes in it, but what if their both the serial killer? Pate says that he was traveling with a partner (Creighton) but I don't think he says for how long. I think that it's possible they met in Mirrah and worked together to become a serial killer team. Pate being the brains and Creighton being the muscle, each having skill sets that complement one another. But Creighton got caught by the local authorities, maybe because he deviated from Pate's plan or something. Pate, thinking his partner will either rat him out or be executed, decides to cut his losses and leave town, abandoning Creighton. This could be the betrayal that Creighton talks about. But Creighton escapes and goes after Pate for betraying him, setting a trap in the huntsman's copse, but Pate, being the more intelligent one tricks Creighton into his own trap. From there you know the rest of the story. I think this would explain why Creighton is hunting Pate and why Kale thinks the serial killer is Creighton (because he's the one who got caught) even though Pate appears to be an equally evil character.

[@NoctanNights]

What if Cale met Pate, and Pate lied about his name, claiming to be Creighton? Then Pate would be the killer after all. Of course, it's not known whether Cale knows the name because he heard about it in Mirrah, or Creighton/Pate told him.

[@SilverMont]

Gamemasterdj436 It's not a bad theory, by any means! I don't personally think that's the case, but it's just an opinion - I feel like Pate genuinely doesn't like killing/fighting. He wants treasure and trinkets, and he will kill if needs be, but otherwise is just a means to an end (treasure!) But hey, maybe he just fooled me too!

[@astellr1977]

I did a fun run with Creighton's helm + Grave Warden's Tunic and a mace. It looks like a crusader, it was hella fun.

[@sheilaghoul7019]

Ehh... Pate always seemed like he had more of a bad plan for us. Gaining our trust, giving us things, telling us of treasure, even if warning us. I felt like if we hadn't let Creighton free, then Pate would've planned something for us.

[@SoHappyToSeeYou]

(Just started looking into the lore so pinch of salt required) Off topic but just came to this thought. What if this age of fire is just the latest, Because we've been told the Dark-soul gets stronger as the flame gets weaker. So perhaps this is not "The Age of Fire" but an age of Light. So the two are the oldest primordial souls or sources of Light and Dark Each burns in contact with the other but neither can afford to consume the other or they would both cease to exist. This would explain how there were creatures already in existence when there was no light or dark as far as Gwyn's doctrine makes us believe.

[@bendonatier]

Simply put Pate helps you in a boss fight, gives you the soap stone, and tells you where treasure is, and that it is guarded. Creighton bitches about pate demands you hand things over, and won't give you the key if you summon pate. Even if they are both criminals Pate is at least helpful.

[@SilverMont]

Yeah, he is pretty useful compared to Creighton

[@grandbean9031]

You see,you fell in Pate's trap,he gives you the stone,helps you in a boss and tries to act friendly just so you side with him,you fell victim to his facade my friend,Creighton may not help you,but thats cause he needs to exact justice on the one that has killed numerous people.

[@Dew.3000]

He still gives you the key even if you've summoned Pate for the Last Giant.

[@bendonatier]

My mistake, I was told he doesn't. I usually don't bother with that quest.

[@toxicbutthole3853]

I think I'd choose creighton over pate, something about the way he talks makes me feel like he's more genuine. You can hear the anger and rage in his voice when he talks about pate, like he feels betrayed by him and he missed his only chance to get revenge by getting himself locked up. If you help him he sounds very thankful that you didn't betray him and glad that he finally got the revenge that he felt he deserved.

[@SilverMont]

Toxic Butthole That seems to be the general consensus so far, yeah. People are liking Creighton more.

[@needya]

Silver Mont It's rather funny, as the quest will end in the same way, no matter which of the two you kill at the end (the same trap on the quest, but a different comment) basically, it's a debate on who is the lesser evil, not which is innocent, as it's clear that both are guilty, both are deadly and dangerous, and both will probably kill you if you didn't advance their own wants (hence the trap) but yeah, Creighton sounds more like an innocent, making players take pity, albeit he probably doesn't deserve any of it

[@SamiKarvinen]

AND JOIN THE P8 IS NOT MY FUCKING M8 FANCLUB TODAY \o/ HAIL CREIGHTON, THE OPPOSER OF ALL CHEEKY PRICKS :P

[@CtisGaming]

After finding out both ending I felt like like they were old partners. Like what Patches called you if you survived his murder attempts and spared him. But like a classic movie one betrays the other out of greed and is hunted, but both are still just as cruel as ever.

[@DamagdHart64]

What we need is for silver, vaati, and epicnamebro to collaborate and make a video or series on dark souls lore together. That would be awesome

[@SilverMont]

I've worked on a few collabs as it happens! mostly with Dave Klein.

[@gaminganarchist]

Just a minor clarification Pate means the top of your head but it is often only used in conjunction to referring to a bald pate. I think it references him saying things "off the top of his head" which can be taken literally in one sense to mean deception. They do like their word play

[@SilverMont]

***** Yeah, the pate is the top, but pate also became known as a sort of "slang" word for someone who had a bald pate, etc.

[@FSPaladin280]

By the time I got to Brightstone Cove Tseldora, I completely forgot who Pate was and just saw two guys fighting. Anxious, I picked one and started chopping him up. A few minutes later, I realized I accidentally killed Pate, but I think Creighton is a much more interesting character than Pate.

[@NoGreyAndGreen]

Been waiting for this. Really good video. Imo though, Cale is heavily affected by the curse and is gradually losing his memory day by day. He keeps uttering things like "I think and i believe"... Hes very doubtful of himself, this leads me to believe that he has confused himself with the two. He says he saw what resembled the infamous killer from mirrah who was a knight in 'name' alone, suggesting that hes not 100% sure on what the killer looks like or said killer doesnt have anything distinct about him appearance or otherwise. He wouldnt be able to tell if it was Creighton because he always has his face covered. Which leads me to conclude that Pate is the killer and Cale has them mixed up.

[@BaileyDaAwesome]

Pate = Noble, as stated "a knight in name alone" knights = Noble, Pate = killer

[@ArcaneVulper]

Lets not forget Navlaan though, Navlaan is a notorious killer that was supposedly put to death for his crimes, as stated on a few of the hexes, that Cale did in fact meet, and Navlaan wants him dead, despite this Cale has never mentioned him.

[@protitus]

Finally someone besides me noticed this. Haha!

[@SilverMont]

Oh yes, but I think there's a good explanation for that! I'll have a Navlaan vid before too long, where I'll pitch my ideas about Navlaan

[@sebastianmeid681]

I think Creighton's innocent. Harsh, and a little asshole-ish, but ultimately innocent. Pate is a smooth talker and "mild-mannered", playing smart and safe. His armor is "perhaps pillaged". Serial killers are known for their cold-blooded sweet-talking and ease in manipulating others into doing what they want. Pate could've easily met Creighton, traded him the imitation-armor from Mirrah for the Ring of Thorns, and taken the armor we see him in off a corpse. Creighton, likely being of a "lower class" than regular Mirrah knights, happily took the armor as an opportunity to play knight. Pate, naturally, as a serial killer, gets overtaken by his urge to kill his new companion and leads Creighton into a trap, for which, understandably, Creighton goes near-insane with a lust for revenge. This might also be why he wants his Ring of Thorns back; he doesn't believe anyone should have it but him, especially after once trading it to the very man who would later betray him. There's that, and also the fact that it just seems so *fitting* for Creighton to have the Ring of Thorns. He's a bit prickly when it comes to interactions, and seeing as the ring is made for immediate retribution, and he's out for vengeance... It makes a little more sense in my head. This is all omitting the fact that Cale and Pate have the same accent.

[@SilverMont]

Sebastian Meid Pate could well be a charismatic sociopath, yeah. But on the other hand, I do also believe Creighton could just as easily be a psychopath.

[@CkrizToGamer]

Silver Mont I killed them both. Problem solved.

[@sebastianmeid681]

Silver Mont Happy Christmas! Also, yes, Creighton may very well be a murderous fellow... But I don't think he's *The Killer* that Cale talks about. He might also be murderous because Pate effectively shifted all suspicion onto him, which in most people's cases, is the greatest slight on their honor, shaky as it may be. This isn't to say I dislike Pate as a character, in fact, he's easily one of my favorites. I just don't believe Creighton's the killer.

[@letvolir6490]

I love your videos so much. You always have the best content. Can't wait for your DKS 3 videos.

[@Levyathyn]

I think Creighton's not as trustworthy as he seems, but I know for a fact Pate isn't. His demeanor, reactions and so on, all set him up as a bad guy. And his straightforward, less-than-honest but not outright deceitful approach to 'warning' the player about traps could easily be explained as a result of his involvement with Creighton. Simply put, he set Creighton up to fall, leaving in his wake a very dangerous man with a huge, wide grudge. If Creighton's trap hadn't backfired, Pate would have likely been killed, and he knows it, so now he's more open. A little. But, if he neglects to mention a couple of details, and someone dies, well it's not his fault, is it? On the other hand, Creighton can't be everything people say. Remarking about a trapped chest isn't admitting to setting you up to take the fall over it. And on top of that, you can't be in a complete face-concealing mask AND be recognized from a distance as a somewhat famous killer. And you can't be a killer on the run from a country AND be suspiciously wearing knock off, fake gear from there. Even his axe isn't a real Dragonslayer Crescent, but a facsimile with no lightning damage. My thoughts? I think Creighton may or may not be the killer that possibly exists and is known as Creighton in Mirrah, but I believe one of two things. Either he is someone who faked being a knight, Creighton in particular, and was caught up in all this mess (or might have killed or replaced the real Creighton), or Pate is actually Creighton, or the killer who used his name, and 'our' Creighton considers this the betrayal.

[@GreyFox785]

You know... Cale also has a pretty wonky item description on his set, suggesting that even he might have just bought his clothes second-hand without being from Mirrah in particular... We also assume it was that hollow who pushes that bolder at us even though it kills him and Cale has a pretty convenient viewing spot of our approach in that tunnel... It also doesn't specifically say who the Ring of Thorns belongs to, only that Pate has it... Pate claims it belongs to someone else, Creighton claims it belongs to Pate... How'd they both get keys to the house in Brightstone Cove? Why was Cale in Aldia's keep messing with Navlaan? ...? We need to go deeper.

[@giantdad5934]

Pate and Creighton can stop wondering.. The chosen undead is the real serial killer

[@Gamefreak2998]

If you think about it, Creighton was trapped and the odds of Cale coming across him when he was locked up seem fairly low. Him encountering pate though? A lot more likely in my opinion. It also seemed to me that Creighton was merely commenting on how the trap would leave a scar, where as pate seemed like the one that set it.

[@williamkensington2772]

First time I played dark souls 2 I helped Creighton no questions

[@ClassMRule]

To be honest, my first play through I just Flame Swathed the both of them interchangeably and whoever was left alive was the work of Fate. Granted, Creighton survived at first, but upon reflection I believe it was partly prejudice against Patches that led me to kill Pate. Looking back, I would have done things differently, for it is Patches, not Creighton, that once fought alongside me in battle.

[@ClassMRule]

Err... I mean Pate

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

Patches > Pate No one will ever be able to replace trusty old Patches, me and him, we're jolly undead outcasts.

[@SilverMont]

***** Just remember never to roll Cleric

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

Silver Mont Who plays Cleric, wot r u, casul?

[@AndreiMuntean0]

I think it's pretty obvious: Creighton is the serial killer that Cale was talking about, and Creighton happened to be screwed by a different serial killer/opportunist: Pate. They're two different serial killers. And they both try to kill you in the end, laughing (and then disappearing) when the chest explodes in your face.

[@grandbean9031]

I preffered Creighton,Creighton had his ring stolen and was left to rot in a cell by Pate,even if he is indeed a murderer,pate never mentions such rumour nor does he ever use it as a reason to defend himself,so in Pate's eyes,Creighton was just another pray,just like Patches,Creighton on the other hand is pretty much a gamble,is he a serial killer or not?We dont know and he is innocent till proven guilty and Pate deserves punishment anyways,so i always go with killing Pate.

[@dreyga7872]

Pate's face makes him look like Patches. 7:43

[@malikhunter6203]

Creighton is obviously the more trustworthy, as he hasnt tried to screw the player as many times as Pate actually did try. As for the Kale Pate situation, I notived their strikingly similar accents, even listening to both of their dialogues until I came to the conclusion that it is in fact the same voice tweaked to throw off those who hear it. Pate is soft spoken, almost like a child, and Kale speaks with a bit more confidence, and even gives a bit of joy when the player first meets Kale in his cave. (BTW, I hate that frickin boulder) Kale and Pate are the same person in my eyes, as when you can speak to Kale, Pate is nowhere to be found, and when you can speak with Pate, Kale is again nowhere. Creighton I see as being a man caught in blind vengeance, though he may be the murderer from Mirrah, crescent axe and all, I believe he may have been from Mirrah, but Kale lies about his origins.

[@grinckerthesoul1510]

+Aremoris Nightshade pate tried to kill us in dark souls 2, dark souls and demons souls, creighton did not

[@grinckerthesoul1510]

+Aremoris Nightshade also bloodborne

[@yakuzashibe]

+Funky Cipher Cat What you on about?

[@SirLeonnardofWaffles]

If you speak to cale mid game after meeting pate in earthen peak and Creighton in the shaded woods, he alludes to Creighton being a dangerous serial killer

[@erd249]

For about three seconds I thought you said "one hell of an ass" and I was like "Why would that matter in battle and also that's a terrible reason to side with someone".

[@umapessoaqualquer3688]

I personally think both are guilty Pate stole the ring and is trying to blame you and Crey is actually a wanted man and wants to give you the armor to get away so you have a Dialoge when the chosen unded falls into the trap

[@rawdoncat8326]

I killed both in the end, if both are killers no one gonna miss them if there both gone.

[@I_EAF_19882]

Fuck you buddy, let's fight in Tseldora

[@DBfan106]

I believe that Creighton is the one to save here, Pate tricks us into traps and such, and yet, all the items point towards Creighton being an admirer of the knights of mirrah, perhaps his violent demeanor prevented him from joining the knights, and Pate simply viewed him as inferior due to his higher class so he tricked him. Pate seems like a snake who should be killed on sight, while Creighton seems to only want revenge against Pate's trickery.

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

I see myself in Pate, I do. And I will choose his spear and shield over an axe.

[@illuminova]

+Gonçalo Carneiro (Knucklesfan) you get pates set before the fight regardless lol

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

Unless... He dies on the fight against Last Giant or you don't summon him at all.

[@illuminova]

true but if you dont summon him you probably dont even know about the quest in the first place and if he dies during the last giant you're just a bad souls player

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

Naw, like most NPC summons he is dumb as heck and sometimes he gets stuck getting hit with the stomp attack of the last giant. He gets fucked up.

[@illuminova]

but he has like 10k hp the boss fight shouldnt last long enough for him to even die

[@SolaireTheAwesome]

I'm pretty sure Pate IS Patches just because of the description of his spear and it resembles a winged spear which Patches did use. I have a theory about Creighton being one of the knights of Mirrah, as they had a sect of shadow warriors and the like, easily filling in the hole about the odd differences..

[@Metahuman757]

Pate looks like Patches, so I don't trust him.

[@SingeScorcher]

tbh, sometimes I play souls 2 like my character is my Darksouls hero re-incarnated somehow (time is distorted in Lordran/Dragnlaeic) So.... I think he recognizes both of his re-incarnated enemies xD

[@Usagi33353]

I met Patches in DS1 and was startled to see him in the dark. I said I was a cleric to be safe, and sure enough, I was forced to kill him. Really wish I hadn't.

[@m3t4lmancer]

I had heard of a "bald guy who tries to get you killed" whenever Dark Souls was mentioned, so the first time I saw Patches, I killed him right away.

[@hinamiravenroot7162]

"Mirrah is the home of an infamous killer" -Pate Creighton isn't from Mirrah, PATE is! Would fall in nicely with his never lying but never telling the truth. He never said it wasn't him, he only implied it.

[@letthemburn]

Pate's Spear is far from ineffectual.

[@SilverMont]

+HisLife I made this before that one patch which buffed it. Before that patch, it was trash.

[@SirKaldar]

ehh good, evil. They're both fine choices, whatever floats your boat.

[@KingLionover9000]

I killed both then when to sleep thanks for helping me make a decision

[@bobwangwangalbert]

Nice work as always

[@FrogPrinceMichael]

I like Pate more than I like Creighton.... If anything, Pate DOES warn you that you will be trapped.

[@I_EAF_19882]

Ye boy, now come here and I'll give a little of my "soap" stone

[@FrogPrinceMichael]

Mild Mannered Pate I'll summon you any time ;)

[@I_EAF_19882]

DarkDestr0yer61 oh yeah bb

[@GreatKingIso]

Oh would you look at that a pit full of treasur

[@jgunner280]

Nice video. The funny thing is in my original run at Dark Souls 2, I didn't even feel like it was much of a question. Either you choose to be the "good guy" and help get rid of a lying thief, or you choose to side with pate and hope that he treats you better of gives you a better end-reward. The whole Creighton killer thing really must have just went over my head. I never felt like Creighton was some saint or anything, but he does you no wrong, so I just figured rumors were just rumors and helped him out. I guess Dark Souls 3 confirmed he was a bit messed up, but oh well, he still didn't wrong my character in 2. In 3 he did, so I killed him.

[@SilverMont]

I guess it was there to balance out - you meet Pate first (usually) and he's a little suspicious but doesn't do anything bad, really. Then you meet Creighton and he's like "Pate sucks" but then Cale chips in with "Creighton's a murderer, yo!"

[@brianandrew8968]

creighton is the best. love him and his back story

[@SilverMont]

Brian Andrew A backstory that involves backstabbing!

[@brianandrew8968]

ahahahaha. yeah

[@Celltastic]

amazing work once again

[@SilverMont]

Thanks!

[@PedoElf]

What about when Pate tells you about the first trap? He mentions a brusque warrior fellow who pushed him aside and that he still has the fellow's ring. Imo Creighton is legit, a bit dickish, but legit.

[@akhistotle]

I'd definitely consider Creighton to be the innocent one. You ever see the stereotype; the kind well-meaning man, is really the slimy snake, whilest the rough and possibly dangerous man, is actually good-natured. Creighton has the same idea as Benhart, or so he says, to test his strength. He seems in all cases like a "berserker" a man that lives for battle and danger, like you said he doesn't fight with a hint of self preservation. Meanwhile Pate is always cautious, covering his tracks, assuring us its trapped, but saying "by all means, go for it" in his own way, edging us on. Then he sets the trap and watches us perish. Ignoring cale, who location wise would have never seen Creighton; trapped in Harvest Valley, Wouldn't pate be the perfect man to set up Creighton. A man who thinks with his Axe; edged on by Pate to clear trapped treasures; either Creighton dies or Pate claims some of the reward scott free. When Creighton decides to trap Pate, my dear Creighton, Pate's been doing this for far too long.....

[@DaxterL]

As i see Creighton is really like Lautrec and as in DS1 i like lautrec more because he's more honest if i dare to say. Not like patches who just really wants to trick you.

[@SilverMont]

VlkCZ Patches is a sneaky shit all right!

[@DaxterL]

Silver Mont yup

[@DBfan106]

except for the part where Lautrec murders the fire keeper. that just isn't cool.

[@DaxterL]

DBfan106 Yeah but i still love that Character, in terms of mechanics, patches is better option but in case of lore i just like lautrec more

[@DBfan106]

VlkCZ makes sense.

[@sirderpington7704]

I think the hate between them is only thing keeping them from going hollow. If both of them are hollow and can't die than the fight must go on until one of them is hollow.

[@bronyatheistfedora]

For what it's worth Pate is definitely dishonest. Especially with the whole "what was his name... Creigh-something, I think..." I mean come on lol, the writers are screaming at you that he's manipulative and full of shit imo

[@SilverMont]

+El Stark Cale, you mean?

[@bronyatheistfedora]

Silver Mont oh shit I confused the two, I take it all back. this just got a lot more interesting. I didn't find Cale on my playthrough so I didn't recall his dialogue

[@Slender_Man_186]

If you check pate's armor description is says something along the lines of '...looks like it's been pillaged...'

[@Slender_Man_186]

Also his spear has been in many battles by its description. Yeah pate is a damn lying, murdering, ass.

[@abyssknight6131]

+Douglas Mitchell just because the spear has been in many battles doesn't mean it was weilded by pate, for all we know, pate was trekking through some old dungeon or something and stumbled across the gear he has in game, either way I'm gonna do a pate cosplay in the future

[@trusty6625]

Pfffff.... We need a Gavlan lore video. :3

[@SilverMont]

Trusty ™ Might be I'll do one, in a bit!

[@trusty6625]

That would be nice, considering he does have some cut content.

[@iwishiwasadragon8137]

I personaly belive that Gavlan is Pharos , kinda weird that he has statues in his place , he doing everything what pharos lockstone describes . Walking around , helping you . As he is the only one who can buy all your useless stuff . Maybe Pharos was staring to Hollow and then he just changed his name so no one will recognize him , couse everyone else think he is dead . Well many theories but i do belive that he is Pharos , friendly even if dont talk too much and helpfull .

[@born2ride149]

Pate is voiced by the actor and comedian Peter Serafinowicz and as he enjoys ds series asked to be apart of ds2. Therefore the name pate is a dark souls shout out to him in my opinion.

[@gavywavy1420]

Im on team Cr8 the gr8 m8 on this one

[@MrDaniho]

Blood-thirsty Creighton or persuasive Pate. I liked more Creighton. He was more honest than Pate. Great job Alex, like always :P

[@channonfenris6627]

I liked Creighton better. So I killed pate. I thought he was the serial killer.

[@SilverMont]

Judging from DaS3, seems more likely that it was Creighton

Silver Mont Alex, please do a video on the nonsense geography of Drangleic (transitions like Earthen Peak to Iron Keep, Aldia's Keep to Dragon Aerie...) and how it possibly connects to the memory loss aspect of the game, that is somehow connected to the undead curse (or even to the distorted space and time). This is referenced a TON of times in game (intro, Lucatiel, Maughlin not remembering his home town, or Chloanne not recognizind her father, when he is right in FRONT OF HER!!!) Also, I think this always happens when you're inside a tunnel or an elevator of some sort, where the sky is not visible. Love your videos! Would really you to comment on this. Thanks so much :3

[@SilverMont]

João Carrilho I think the nonsense geography is just a game design thing. I don't really want to speculate on how it could be due to time distortion etc as that would be defending what is, ultimately, just questionable level design. Dark Souls and Dark Souls II share the same basic universal rules, but Dark Souls doesn't have Lost Izalith randomly floating in the sky, nor does it have bad geometry to the extent of having the Lost Bastille floating visibly above you when you arrive by boat, lol.

But these things seem so obvious. It's really hard to believe that no one noticed such things during the game production. And some of these would be so easy to fix, like having a bright red glow behind the mountains next to the earthen peak, or changing elevator routes. It's something i loved about the original. These "premonitions" of future areas, that you would visit. It gave the world a sense of continuity. Dark Souls 2 feels scatterbrained. I'm probably just making excuses for poor design, but then again, maybe not...

[@SilverMont]

João Carrilho Sometimes there's just bugs like that. Hell, Dark Souls has a few. If you move the camera around just before the Bed of Chaos fog gate, you can see some missing terrain which is just floating in a gray void.

Silver Mont Yes, but that's a mistake, a glitch. Game design is a choice of the producers and directors.

[@kuwashi]

Silver Mont that's actually only in the pc version. first time i saw that in the pc game i went back and played that section in the console version cause i didn't recall seeing it there. sure enough, it wasn't in the console version(ps3). so i would attribute that to the bad port dark souls on pc ultimately was.

[@MrAxedead]

I will always slay Pate.

[@SilverMont]

MrAxedead Poor Pate!

[@borealoutriderknight3419]

and I shall always kill Creighton

[@brandenlamont4764]

I kill both...

[@brandenlamont4764]

***** I should try that! Might take a while. I'm only good at PvP not PvE. Lol

[@brianandrew8968]

me too

[@Thegcdude]

Just an idea, because they're isn't really proof of this, but Cale might have actually seen Pate and not Creighton, as Creighton was wearing a mask, Cale wouldn't have noticed who he was, (From the face anyway) and maybe Pate said when asked that his name was 'Creighton' so he could (in a way) frame Creighton to be the person Cale thought looked like the serial killer.

[@stratosms.6494]

I think that pate is the killer because he was locked up in a cell then when creighton came to execute him he traped him inside then went to a blacksmith and mate a fake armor from mirah but the blacksmith was in drangleic he didnt make it so good so pate dressed creighton up as the killer and left pate is more of a silvertongue but he also uses poison a characteristic for a killer he also uses a spear and aa large shield a refference to patches but also a weapon that guards use and cale says that the killer immitates or is a guard frm mirah so pate maybe learnt how to use the weapons so he can hide himself better creighton is furious with pate and hunts him down to finish the execution pate leads again and again into traps so he can get rid of you fearing that you might uncover the truth when he sees how tough you are he tries to make an alliance with you so he gives you gifts and his armor and ring to slow down creightons pursue creighton isnt the murder because he uses an axe which killer would use an axe when you can use your smarts and poison like pate , pate thinks you as a stupid but powerful warrior so he literraly gives you the awnser he says at earthen peak '' trust is a dangerous thing'' and at first you wont suspect a thing but when you meet creighton you will asume that pate told you not to trust him when he actually told you not to trust him ( pate told you '' dont trust me '' in a different way ) when you kill creighton pate trys to explain his innocence and thanks you if a man was innocent why would he be so afraid when pate dies creighton thanks you a typical behaviour for a guard pate when he dies he says not to shaby then he has nothing to hide and gives you credits theres a different alternative that they were actually friends pate being tha killer creighton a mercenary ( why he uses an axe ) but either creighton found out the truth so he tried to trap pate but pate being smarter traps him instead so creighton being greedy ad angry hunts pate down or the guards were closing in on pate so he needed a distraction and that distraction was creighton pate is a teacher for you in a different way he says that you cant trust anyone where you the player is literally insane i mean come on every time he says theres treassure but its dangerous or theres a trap and you keep going you are either brave or stupid maybe both also cale didnt see the difference between creighton and pate because of the curse he doesnt remember stuff and the armor conisted an iron mask hiding the face i personally killed them both one of them is a murderer and leds you to traps and the other is an ungrateful asshole both of them will try to kill you at the end with a trapped chest i would assume that pate trapped deveral chests in the game the ones i encoutered were in the area where he was sooo maybe he tried to kill you many times but the danger with the traps was for nothing because they didnt content anything that valuable a titanite shard a spell all those ''treasures'' that pate gives you are worthless by the time i found them i stucked up with awesome armour and spells i want to ask you alex if you see this who do you think in this game is the equivalent of solaire from the prvious one so if pate is the succesor of patches and saulden from the other warrior at firelink shrine i forget his name who is the spiritual succesor of solaire ??

[@SilverMont]

Hunter ofstuff Hmm... well, Solaire doesn't have a direct "successor" so to speak, but you could make the argument that either Lucatiel or Benhart fill that role. Benhart in particular, combines a bit of Solaire and Siegmeyer! I wonder who the next lore video will be on? HARR!

[@stratosms.6494]

Silver Mont I will try to make the connections with the current npc's with the old ones i mean carrhilion is clerly big hat logan and the pyromancy triner girl the other apprentice on dark souls 1 i am not good with names i am also curious about felkin i mean i at least dont know much about him also thanks for replying alex appreciate your interest and time thanks for the tip by the way ;)

[@SilverMont]

Hunter ofstuff Felkin the Hexer shares the same voice actor as Laurentius the Pyromancer, as it happens.

[@stratosms.6494]

Silver Mont They are also really similar in alot of ways low hood so you cant see their face (beard) they are also really different laurentius is more '' happy '' he has more life and joy in his words where felkin isshady and kind of depressing they also sell the exact oposite type of spells laurentius pyromacy a magic that emits light andfelkin hexes a magic of darkness they are like yin and yang i think also maybe a connection between the two games because felkin uses only pyromacies even with the sunset staff a staff for hexers i mean theres deffinetly something here i think its worth checking out you are more fit than me to do the research clearly i have a feeling theres a connection between the npcs all of them not just the story with the cycle something more (i love the lore and speculations of this game )

[@brucewayne3892]

Paragraphs. Have you heard of it?

[@falx94]

I'm with you on Pate, I always preferred him over Creighton and I actually likened Creighton to Lautrec in his mannerisms and attitude. I've never actually completed the story and found them fighting each other in Tseldora, I think I'll have to go do that.