Debate: It's Time for the West to Get Tough with China

[@aetiusflavius3853]

May I suggest a title for your next debate? How about "It's Time for the World to Get Rid of Western Hypocrisy and Arrogance"?

[@riojoe5156]

you have my vote.

[@sunatarosuna1560]

I am an Asian, you got my vote....😍😅👍

[@bernardchan4090]

Fully agree. The debate should be its time China should get even tougher with the USA. Don't give them any more face.

[@Andy-P]

Why not include China not just the west? Of course that is politically acceptable to the CCP

[@Andy-P]

@@bernardchan4090 Don't even give the Americans the chance to speak. A debate with Chinese characteristics

[@nancylee7435]

Tom is sadly still ignorant of what is happening in the real world and China..He is still clinging on to most western mindset of defining China { as in the past} and in this debate does not seems to have any constructive views...

[@mcs351]

He is Not ignorant of the real world, he is simply bias; you can never get someone to see the truth if he chooses to turn a blind eye to it.

[@Andy-P]

Kinda agree with you last statement and so do the debaters. The immediate future just holds friction and polarisation as the new cold war gets a grip. Personally I would rarther have a cold war and trade disputes than a 'real' kinetic war.

[@wyz9815]

@Szar Tzejar he is intelligent, but someone has intelligence doesn't mean he has moral, consience and shame. I guess there is high percentage of psychopath among American political and financial elites.

[@chineymooi1962]

he is nothing more low minded ignorant living thing in a mussel.

[@Andy-P]

@trader john Cold war is no direct military confrontation and helps avoid that. China is already in a cold war with America. The actions of the two prove that. America is gathering allies to give a more united front. Else China will pick off the 'little countries' one by one. Starting with Australia and soon the UK. Tom is suggesting this 'alliance' with America and the other democratic nations. As Tom says if we don't a world led by China is a world where individuals don't count.

[@robertlee9838]

Honorable Kishor Mahbubani, the world is lucky to have you, a polite, smart, well educated Indian Singaporean.

[@TheBhumbak]

he is not indian

[@swearwern4286]

Of Indian ethnicity

[@skychaos87]

@Touhidul Islam Abir It is a race in Singapore. Thus he said Singaporean Indian. China also have different races like Han or whatnot but in Singapore we also generalize as Chinese race.

[@salimsg]

Why do you have to mention his ethnicity. Is this some form of covert racism?

[@skychaos87]

@@salimsg Why would you suggest that? He is literally full of praise for him. Ideally we should drop the mention of race since we are all Singaporean. Or even better, drop the mention of nationality because we are all the same species of humanity. But somehow we still like to identify ourselves by race. Its not racist to do that, and by the same logic it is also not xenophobic to identify by nationality.

[@seanooi511]

Best quote of the day, "You have no moral right to lecture us. When we were weak, when we were down trodden, when our people were suffering from poverty, when our people were suffering from famine, when our people were suffering from starvation, you didn't bring human rights to us! What did you do? You conquered us, you trampled on us, you burned our summer bells!"

[@ricotheman8139]

That was the Summer Palace, just saying…

[@Ray888z]

Summer palace, not "bells". It was a huge garden complex of a hundred luxury palaces, pagodas, gardens, lakes, the size of NY Central park.

[@twood2032]

This MP just dont seems to understand that the China he is facing in 2020 isn't the same China they dealt with during Opium War.

[@phillipyap7697]

Maybe the UK should send him to reeducation camp

[@petergreen5337]

There are many like this

[@riojoe5156]

China today is not the same as the Mao era either. Tom simply trust what BBC and those fake news agencies fed him.

[@philipjh6789]

It hurts to see the country they trampled and humiliated in the opium war has risen to being a superpower today.

[@johnhoy1101]

"It's Time for the West to Get Tough with China" On the contrary, I strongly believe that "It's Time for China to Tough with West", especially the US , Britain and Australia.

[@leealvin6820]

@taladuga picpwaspwat You still living in the past, living under the shades glory of your forefathers. You will realized how bad your media get you misinformed about China if you just get a visit to China or check out in youtube videos of those foreigners visited China.

[@wise003090]

Agree

[@chuak.c7349]

That's why we have a nickname call chao ang mo.

[@guilmarperez4674]

@taladuga picpwaspwat that was 200 years ago... you must of being sleep not noticing China's rise in the last 30 years

[@DineshTwanabasu]

@taladuga picpwaspwat So you believe China lost Hongkong and Taiwan because of UK. But why do you oppose the one china policy?

[@lagazhang7380]

Get tough with China? How? Like what you did to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya? Feel free to try then.

[@stonechen6231]

The West: We promote human rights! Not so much in Afghanistan though

[@MightySteve001]

Good point

[@tyrionlannister6459]

@@stonechen6231 wrong we pretend promoting human rights

[@lengthao8424]

This time will destroy them once for alls.

[@henryh3800]

I think it will lead to a decoupling and a second cold war, with different nations taking one of two sides. The cause of this is not so much what China does internally (which is complex and different elements can be praised and criticized) but it is China attempting to employ illicit influence in Western countries. I suggest reading "Hidden Hand" by Professor Clive Hamilton (which the CCP tried to get banned).

[@cklam5520]

This MP is so good in making allegation after allegation but provided no proofs. Shame on him!

[@zhaokunwang9891]

How could Tom be elected by his people? How?

[@lwcng7185]

Protests have been described as uprisings. How accurate can he be?

[@davidkelly3883]

You’re a wumao and so is everyone on these comments.

[@davidkelly3883]

@@zhaokunwang9891 you’re a wumao

[@cklam5520]

@@davidkelly3883 Please refrain from personal attack if you are not able to engage in a gentleman discussion. Discussion requires just a little bit of common sense and simple judgement.

[@knnknn3393]

I am Chinese. It was a Western debate coach that told me that arguments need to be FACT-BASED. It saddens me how many in the West have forgotten about it.

[@Andy-P]

While CCP never learned. CCP facts are what is politically acceptable to the CCP

[@philipjh6789]

Cos they r good at repeating cliche.

[@xya6530]

@@Andy-Pget some education. U r humiliating yourself

[@Andy-P]

@@xya6530 I think not. Typical response of CCP to a comment they don't like and cannot censor

[@MW-qd1rj]

I visited China last year after leaving it for 67 years, and become keenly aware that Kishore is so factual in his presentation. He is so accurate, logical, and persuasive, after the visit last year, I changed my opinion about China completely. The level of personal freedom is superior to that of western world because of their sense of security. I saw single woman freely roam the streets in the wee hours without fear. I saw business people including street vendors so busily engage in their businesses. I enjoyed the fried noodle from a young couple hawking their treats in the street corner around midnight which I couldn't possibly do in the west. I believe we should try to best china with all the talents we have instead of suppressing them. Suppressors will not get support from the rest of the world.

[@ianlam6107]

Yes, no need to worry, there are many monitoring cameras everywhere too. Big brother is watching. All fine

[@johnm7267]

@@ianlam6107 The most watched city in the world is not in China, it is London. In America J Edgar Hoover was head of FBI and had dossiers on every politician and person of interest, including presidents, to the extent no one dare sack him because of what he knew about them. You come on the internet and you make what you think is a smart fatuous comment consisting of one sentence, without thinking. It is just like this Tom. He is criticising China about its civil rights while there are piles of civil rights violations by the west behind him. The first concentration camps were in Sth Africa and were British, where thousands of women and children died. Of course you have never been to China, you probably haven't been anywhere, have probably never read anything other than western propaganda and make a stupid remark about surveillance in China as though the west wouldnt do such a thing. Julian Assange is being held in a British jail awaiting extradition to the United States. His crime? Publishing pictures of American troops using civilians as target practice in Iraq

[@samuelboucher1454]

Obvious propaganda is propaganda.

[@pahatpahat9566]

@@samuelboucher1454 , Isn't such talks propaganda too?

[@VigilantGuardian6750]

You are conflating west with US, US is only crime riddled western country, classic self-centered american who is also willing to accept totalitarian way of dealing with crime than just accept that the chinese are trained to be obedient and they are as depressed and as unhappy as western people are if not more. Also If you want to talk about safest countries, check Arab Gulf Muslim states that have tried hard in the past to be as theocratic as possible but are still quite secular, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Saudi = 0 crime, can fall asleep in middle of park with 1mil dollars in ur coffer and wake up with all of it in there still.

[@mingzeli9869]

Oh please, when has the West ever be "soft"? Don't use attitude as an excuse for your incompetence.

[@warhurst1968]

I'm Australian, I do not have any problem with China shinning the spotlight on our appalling behaviour, we need it and deserve it.

[@wwatered]

Good on you, Ben. Unfortunately Scomo and the West in general are guilty of covering up and exercising double-standard.

[@miloozie]

When this Tom guy said no “free” society could do what China did in dealing with coronavirus. I just wondered for an moment did he not know the existence of a country called Australia or did he not consider Australia as a “free” society?

[@zeissiez]

I’m a Malaysian who work in China. If only the Western world is as open minded as you, the world would be a much better place.

[@warhurst1968]

@@miloozie He's just awful, more evidence of the decline, no integrity whatsoever.

[@123-h5i5y]

@@miloozie His twisted reasoning. He prefers to have his country to be more infected and killed by the virus than using China's authoritarian style that has successfully controlled the pandemic. In essence, the value for freedom is more important than life. What is freedom if you haven't the life to enjoy it? Tom, if you are reading , just look at your own country going to another lockdown while China has gone economically productive full steam a few months ago.

[@tfylhk]

Tom Tugendhat is so weak when debate with Kishore, they are not at same level

[@kinezoxdoug5780]

A formal army man against a scholar , different brain capacity and knowledge base. This is not a real debate . And pity the world have turn into anti science and anti knowledge .

[@untertk3048]

Agreed totally, the organizers of the debate is so stupid to even pair a well respected scholar with an idiot who only knows how to kill people, literally

[@cocofirst3967]

@@kinezoxdoug5780 So, you guys in the UK should know what to do in the next UK General Election. This guy Tom Tugendhat is not worth representing you. Get someone better.

[@kinezoxdoug5780]

@@cocofirst3967 none of my business there. I’m no pommy😅

[@edwin3162able]

When he said "using fake photo..." 😅

[@dwightng2278]

I am a graduate from Uni of Manchester, one of the finest university from the UK and have live there for 5 years plus I visited various European countries while I was studying in UK. I have also been to China from year 2004 till year 2018 the last time. So here comes my view based on my experience, number one, UK in general is at least 10 years behind when compared to first tier cities in China. Cities such as Beijing and Shanghai no longer use cash form of payment but instead e pay is more prevalent, electric cars is a normal mode of transport in China, Airport in China is miles ahead compared to airport like Heathrow and de gaulle. So the west wants to talk bout human rights, number one China brought 600 million people out of poverty without conquering or colonising a single country outside of its borders compared to the various wars that the west created when it rised to power. Number two, the west wants to educate China on human rights when half of the population haven't been to China while China send the most students and visitors to western world to learn and travel. So does the west know China more or vice versa? Number three, the west claims China is an oppressed state and have human rights violations, can the west answer the countless lives lost in world war1&2, Arab spring and the Vietnam War. So who is the human right violator now? I will let the world answer..

[@Andy-P]

Your education in UK didn't teach you the non CCP definition of human rights

[@hainazheng8022]

@@Andy-P Typical, I was counting on someone's reply like this one. Basiclly, your arrogant and hubris narrative is that any mindset different from that of anglo-saxon is brainwashed. The UK invaded China, invaded India, and invaded other 80% countries around the world, yet now you are brazenly lecturing others on human right? That's hypocritical.

[@Andy-P]

@@hainazheng8022 Insults from the pro-CCP lobby. To be expected. Otherwise thanks for the history lesson. Post WW2 the colonies were given up. Personally I don't think it is worth lecturing China on anything. Your comment displays arrogance and racism and that is a major reason that the west is rallying behind America against China & best friend Russia. Russia which is looking to re-create her empire.

[@Bawdale]

If you live in the UK or west in general and don't travel you are educated in a bubble with no reality of the world outside of the west. Truely indoctrinated like Tom Tugenhat.

[@JuliusKuncoro-r8f]

​@@Andy-Pgreat reply from hypocritical west expert

[@unsulliedthe832]

I am a 5th-generation Singaporean and have visited China a number of times as a tourist as well as to visit some distant relatives. Because I speak Chinese and look Chinese, I easily blend in with the locals so obviously I can observe them for what their perceptions really are vis-a-vis their own government and vis-a-vis the world. (Western visitors don't have this advantage to see the Chinese masses in their unguarded spontaneity). I can confirm what Kishore says is true - that the population are hugely supportive of their own government in contrast to the internal divisiveness of western domestic politics. Yes, they're keenly aware of corrupt elements within their district governments, but Xi's unrelenting efforts in ferreting out wayward officials at every level is very much supported by the masses. This continues to springboard China to a more gracious nation that the rest of the world can look to. It is for this reason the West and its media are royally envious and wish to take down China in any way they can - such as conjuring up an image of a repressive ruler terrorizing a frightened people (nothing is further from the truth).

[@Andy-P]

China's agression in the SCS is for the world to see along with support for Russia invasion of democratic Ukraine. Things not going so well in Chuna economy now. No doubt all Chinese citizens support Dictator Xi no matter what he does.

[@maofei]

This Tom explains why UK has lost.

[@taowang9735]

😂

[@qzhang25]

Has Tom been in China in last 10 years?

[@dpz3461]

他们这样的专家越多越好。

[@MyLittleMagneton]

OK Wumao Fei

[@yunzhao1841]

I used to believe in Western propaganda against the Dalai Lama, but when I opened up my prejudice, I sought the truth. I discovered the true history of Tibet. Only then did I understand that the Western media was just to split China, and there was never the truth in the west media. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqTSlGdjhtOjors

[@iamstrong7427]

Delusional is the perfect word to describe Tom Tugendhat.

[@leecheekeong4343]

He is a joke and a big liar as good as Donald Trump.

[@lesselp]

Your channel has no content. You use KZbin for political trolling.

[@dote5555]

Still retaining their white superiority complex. China now is more advance than UK in virtually everything!

[@sherashera7791]

@@leecheekeong4343 couldn't agree more

[@deemont8838]

@@m1616877 They are afraid of the "yellow peril" and karma. First the Chinese need to marginalize the US dollar then everything will fall into place.

[@harryloo8544]

One is a western politician, the other is an actual expert living in Asia.

[@Laomai24]

harry loo I like it!

[@thecomprador]

China should just get on and decouple with the West.

[@wendiqiu3225]

Correction: he’s not even a politician, he’s a conspiracy theorist (just a handy alternative word to say “idiot”). He said those Australian war atrocities photos (mind you, revealed by western media) were fake.

[@vinryan3267]

@@wendiqiu3225 and he's right. Fu Yu, who also is known as Qilin, is a Chinese graphic artiest, who calls himself a "wolf warrior" graphic artist, admits to creating them, confirmed in the Global Times on 21 December 2020. You must be the only person in the World who didn't know they were fakes. Tom Tugendhat is a Conservative Party MP of British Parliament and Chair of the Commons Foreign Affairs Committee. hint, check facts before you post online, you otherwise just make a fool of your self, what grade are you in ?

[@burung81]

we dont need expert to know actually. We common folk in Asian know the thruth, if there is an exception, it is one country in South asian.

[@anishapoorwakispotta7754]

As an indian, I'm so proud of Kishore. He is the only one with indian descent who seems to understand china and looks through western hypocrisy. I wish india was more pro china. We would have been in more benefit than with western capitalism. Luv china 🇨🇳 from 🇮🇳

[@ianlam6107]

You think the one belt one road is free lunch for India?

[@PrachiVakharia]

I agree. The only colonised country that is now an equal. India keeps looking up to the west instead of building IP and talent internally.

[@Andy-P]

@Snoobab Leperghm We do have people like Kishore. Martin Jacques, Dr Kerry Brown, Vince Cable. They are as popular as Kishore is in the west.

[@Pvlms77]

@@PrachiVakharia u are a very wise woman and very beautiful women 😍😍

[@ftd7435]

@@ianlam6107 There is no free lunch in the world but at the very least, they don't come with guns, bombs and forcing you to embrace their religion while taking over your land and culture where ever they go. Thatz why the phrase "gunboat policy" comes from the West.

[@seanteh7120]

I'm a Malaysian. I was guilty of having many negative views of China based on what I read fr so called mainstream media. After visiting China n seeing how happy the people are n seeing it with my own eyes, I realised how wrong I was especially in passing judgment without real evidence. However I never considered myself an expert. Tom however owes to himself n his country a higher responsibility for being accurate n he has in my opinion failed miserably.

[@ianlam6107]

So, when will move your home there?

[@seanteh7120]

@@ianlam6107 Going to.

[@entertainmentjoke2871]

@@ianlam6107 i think you should move to USA. Just dont complain racisim and being shot on street. Other than that, you can do whatever you want, just dont get detain by police like the black American. Good luck.

[@tonytan6547]

@@ianlam6107 a hypocrite in denial mode n in self defense mode

[@63051]

@@ianlam6107 When you move you head park up your ass. The fume isn't good for intelligence.

[@xuwanglin154]

I'm Chinese, I didn't realize that I am suffering. But I would like to thank Western scholars for their concern for me. LoL.

[@santiagorappy71]

Bruh, we should raid some funds to get liberated!!! I feel oppressed for not going to Shanghai for my favorite Bubble Tea in 4 months!!! 😏😂💕

[@petergrey1873]

They are concerned just because China is much stronger than they can accept. They were not concerned with Chinese at all when China was poor and weak.

[@sagemode3887]

@@petergrey1873 Yes they were they stepped on China even more.

[@dennislx2817]

Sadly, they care more about Chinese feelings than people of their own country.

[@Laomai24]

xu wanglin you are wonderfully funny. I live in Beijing and feel the same. 加油

[@robcameron9096]

Tom Tugehdhat's fabrications and hubris are intolerable. He should lose his chairship and certainly should never be invited to participate in an IQ2 debate again.

[@lesselp]

Your channel is empty. It was created for political trolling.

[@Andy-P]

He does a good job. Interesting CCP want to dictate who is on the IQ2 debate. I guess they don't want elected officials. Just academics they can bribe.

[@100-q8v]

@@lesselp You are a troll yourself. People wish to keep their channel private , there is nothing wrong about it.

[@lesselp]

@@100-q8v On non-political videos, most comments are from people with public channels and content. If a video contains a mention of Russia or China, most anti-western comments are from private/no content channels.

[@sword7872]

Rob Cameron > best comment so far!

[@youngz13o]

I like how Tom just re-quotes what he reads on the internet about China but Kishore has actual facts from references and can even name them for Tom to look up, “which I dont think he will”

[@tonyd822]

All the buzz words and labeling, frankly speaking a lack of creativity

[@garyg501]

Yeah this Tom guy speaks like a college student

[@dote5555]

The guy with a superiority complex, Tom should watch this video, over and over again! kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3uvoXqffc2lbqc

[@PavelZaitsev]

You know that china tried to invade Vietnam as it did to Russia , CCP is a genocidal racist monster that harvests organs from imprisoned.

[@LittlePanda888]

@@PavelZaitsev now remind me again how many countries did the US go to war with?

[@leochan0608]

Tom just repeated western rethorics, Kishor is excellent presenting facts, and reasonable arguments. Just bought his book, great suff!

[@deemont8838]

Tom is a brainwashed bozo.

[@rap3208]

Yeah, I bet Tom did not even research for hard facts or read perspective from China. It was all rhetorics.

[@skchung8331]

I am a Hong Kong citizen but an immigrated Canadian. I visit Hong Kong and China once 2 or 3 years non stop for the last 20 years. I have traveled to many cities in China. Huge changes in living quality, freedom of movement and speech in the last 15 years. I have seen my relatives, all farmers in the village where I was born, become rich by selling their produce, and doing small business by their younger generation. I dare to say that they are enjoying a very good life now after 40 years of hard work, and the government is doing a great job in lifting poor farmers from poverty.

[@ablam8]

The English bloke doesn't know what he talks of, regarding China. Kishore is 10 times smarter, and knows facts. I have lived in China a few years, They love and respect Xi JinPing. So do I.

[@happyhappynuts]

@@m1616877 Germany and UK were critical of Australia back in March, prior to Chinese statements

[@zhouyuxuan6026]

@@happyhappynuts British and German criticized nothing happened. And then the Australia prime minister protest angrily because of a painting which criticized such inhuman actions done by those soldiers by a Chinese artist. OMG He seems so desperate. Isn’t that double standard?

[@ericxu3860]

This kind of politician leads to the decline of society in the long run.

[@thescandinavian303]

If you respect Xi Jinping you must be a troll defending abuses of HUMAN RIGHTS.

[@hawkeyehelen]

@@thescandinavian303 have you been in alien world of late? America the headline news in 2020 do I need to highlight anything for you? Go to China first before uttering absolute nonsense.

[@asiacuisine4869]

The things that Tom spoke about, seems more like those that come from a child blindly reading off the web, without thoughts, research or understanding.

[@deemont8838]

Tom was just regurgitating the standard Western propaganda without critical thinking. Typical brainwashed Westerner.

[@lukelokasf3510]

Tom’s knowledge on China is no better than gullible street people, it’s an embarrassment to call himself as “expert on foreign policy”

[@MightySteve001]

Many of the issues Tom put forward has been debunked.

[@fajarliong]

Precisely, might sound demeaning. But he does sound stup*. There is not any statement sounds intelligent coming from him.

[@lesselp]

Watch a channel named 'serpentza' for expert opinion on the CCP

[@TheBullethead1988]

@@lesselp good joke!

[@ivancaragia9993]

By the time i concluded..that he spoke a lot while saying nothing..i red your comment and realized I wasn’t the only one

[@mikejung2115]

I struggle to take this so called debate seriously. For a moment, I thought it was a comedy show set up to depict brilliance versus stupidity. One was insightful, analytical and masterful. The other was a word for word regurgitation of typical western propaganda against china. This was no contest much like an adult giving a lesson to a preschooler.

[@bobbelcher678]

I think the west should stop meddling in international affairs, especially when the people in those countries are perfectly FINE with their government and approving.

[@davidhoyh]

This is not a debate. This is Kishore scolding some boys for not doing his homework.

[@ninu5719]

🤣🤣

[@williamwongkimping3998]

Hahahahaha......it's so true

[@ronvara8703]

Mr. Mahbubani basically slapped their faces again and again.

[@marvinfok65]

It is so idiotic to talk to a seasoned diplomat without preparing all the facts! This is why UK is in such a shitty position now with this kind of low calibre politicians.

[@onuryokus8313]

I have not listened to the whole debate yet but i will make some comments about thirty minutes of it: Firstly, Kishore's two arguments from beginning are blaming West for not coinciding reason with the debate's actual topic and nonsense because of Western's potantial trade traffic with asian countrys such as Japan, Singapore, South Korea etc. First statement is distraction from Chinese governments human right score because Tugenthat's actual charge to the Chinese Government is related to, i quoted directly from Kishore's dixit, China's internal matter. And China's (when i say China, i meant the Chinese government) legislative system, human rights score, occasion to imprisonment to Uyghurs, creating marking system of its citizens etc. are inclusive to Tugenthat's accusation. Western's past mistakes are one thing, blaming China for restriction of human rights is another thing. İ meant they're different subjects. Other accusation is about war history of Western countries. This is also a distraction. Western countries have more humane system comparable to most of asian or middle eastern countries. Espacially European countries such as England, France, Germany and all of Nordic countries. England and USA have been doing some mistake to lot of countries but in this matter, we have a distinction that i have made a short time ago.

[@dote5555]

There should be a debate: Should China get tough with the West! China has been tolerating all the allegations and insults thrown at them!

[@Rex-ww4cw]

It is not our culture to get tough on other ppl or country. But we will if its really necessary

[@wattlebough]

The problem is that many of the concerns other countries have with the government of the People’s Republic are dismissed because the CCP can never show weakness, this means never admitting fault even of it was responsible. Instead the CCP Foreign Ministry blames everyone except the government of the PRC which has never admitted fault for anything.

[@dote5555]

China superiority has to do with numbers. Let’s say UK has a population of 60 million, China has a population 20 times that of UK. Assuming UK produce 100,000 engineers a year, China will produce 2 million engineers a year. That number is just overwhelming, overwhelming in terms of new inventions, innovations, everything, 5G, 6G, AI, automation, etc! I am not a Chinese living in China. The recent bullying and idiotic remarks from Trump and Pompeo and racist whites in UK and Australia really piss me off!

[@Rex-ww4cw]

@@dote5555 that's why it's really bad to mess with China . China is rising. Recently they just made 5G, artificial sun and surpassed US in quantum computer.

[@dote5555]

@@Rex-ww4cw : And It will keep on riding and rising whether under CCP or other wise!

[@kl-k1959]

No point in going to intl court about HK because HK is fine, with National security law. I live in HK. To Kishore’s point, for those who only criticize, please visit China and talk to the people who live there. Tom’s word: “China is more aggressive than we are used to.” Note: ‘ used to’, ie the past.

[@miinfl7143]

That's code for "China isn't as weak as we are used to."

[@wyz9815]

West, especially American has been aggressive all the time, but problem is : only American can be aggressive towards China, if China respond to their aggression assertively...... Americans: Be tough on them!

[@wyz9815]

@@alantan9863 Lies, no matter how real it sounds, they evaporate when exposed in the light

[@espionage84]

HK without National Security Law is like any other country without traffic fines. Who the hell will stop speeding and parking illegally if there are no consequences for doing illegal traffic related offences? What a farce for those against National Security Law when your own country has them

[@718EngrCo]

I have been to Hong Kong many times and I think it is one of the greatest cities in the world. I was very sad to hear that China has cracked down on the HK people.

[@yeeletan851]

Kishore won hands down with facts, logic and wisdom.

[@kl9518]

Two very different people. Sounds like Tom got his information from watching Chinese haters from KZbin. He should really go out a bit more.

It is time to tell the western political system is the biggest mistakes of human being. I have never seen Chinese police taken gun with them when they are on the street. But those western policy could should anyone who don‘t obey

[@MightySteve001]

I have visited China many times. I also never seen Chinese police carry firearms. Because China is one of the safest places on the planet.

[@yongdeng1813]

If they dont use their guns to kill they used thier knees kn someone’s neck! LoL I cant breath!!!

[@judgechin5116]

The debate should have been : when will China get TOUGH on the West !

[@lesselp]

China steals from the West and depends on the West for everything.

[@percytong5377]

@@lesselp What a joke. We just landed on the moon and even the NASA from the US is asking for soil from the Moon from China now.

[@good2freelance1]

Correct and thats funny i laughed, thumbs up

[@lesselp]

@Touhidul Islam Abir Huwawei was blocked because the CCP have total control of all companies in China and could use them for any purpose. The CCP is a propaganda machine. Don't be fooled.

[@lesselp]

@Touhidul Islam Abir CCP is THE problem in China. You talk about western countries as if they are just one country with one opinion, one media, one government and a venedetta against China. The reality is China is one country, one government, one opinion and no independent media. Snowden's allegations about NSA were published by the Washington Post and the Guardian, both INDEPENDENT MEDIA in the US that can hold the government to account. In the CCP's China, no independent media is allowed, all dissent is crushed and there is nobody to hold it to account.

[@tingwang9465]

i am a chinese. mr kishore mahbubani has spoken exactly how i feel.

[@Andy-P]

I am British and Tom has spoken exactly how I feel.

[@kl9518]

@@Andy-P 1.4 billion Chinese. Mr Kishore has spoken exactly how we feel. 20 million British. Tom has spoken exactly how we feel.

[@Andy-P]

@@kl9518 Thats democracy for you not everyone agrees with Tom. There is about 47 million voters in the UK. Richard Graham MP supports a much 'softer line' on China along with Anglo-chinese trade organisations.

[@loktom4068]

@@Andy-P 😈👈 Another 0¢ ORANGE 🍊 BS TROLL SPOTTED. "EAT 💩🍩 TROLL 😈" from your master Diaper Trumpet's 🎺 mustarded diaper bag.

[@Coumei2009]

@@Andy-P mr kishore mahbubani is a singaporean, tom and you are brits. see the difference?

[@zafarso]

Kishore Mahbubani is simply brilliant. Little Englanders like Tugendhat must understand empire is gone and it's not coming back.

[@jonsnow8853]

Thank you so much, the Honourable Mahbubani for your contributions to the world peace and standing by the facts!!! Our world needs you and you matter!!!

[@toycreator]

what a Big difference between the 2 debator. Please bring material with you Tom next time in a debate... dont just mumble “evidences”

[@qzhang25]

Who needs material when we have ideology.

[@bobegan2865]

Tom had no right to be in that debate. He is a bigoted liar.

[@lwcng7185]

Arrogant!

[@melc925]

Since when did white supremacists need evidence for 'getting tough' on opponents?

[@melc925]

lets admit it: west is white. love, from australia.

[@flam9415]

I think this panel should also talk about whether or not Britain and USA have also been involved in the same crime as the Australian army while in Aghanistan.

[@ylr622]

The US most assuredly did, hence pulling out of the International Criminal Court, sanctioning the judges of the ICC, AND their family members... just speechless.

[@nizicike759]

If Austria has war crime ,USA and UK must have too

[@wwatered]

We should call for a thorough investigation of war crime committed by foreign troops in Afghanistan.

[@guilmarperez4674]

@@nizicike759 Australia

[@zhangjin5120]

Great idea.

[@sandall7398]

This is the level of politician we have in the UK. The British Empire is still strong in the minds of the media and politicians in the West.

[@PavelZaitsev]

Eat some ricin now

[@petergreen5337]

Well said

[@vichitvideo6041]

Thumb up to Professor Kishore Mahbubeni for his knowledge and objectivity. Regarding the British politician participating in the debate, I got the feeling that with such ignorant person in charge, his country would have difficulty in really solving the world's problem if it sincerely intend to do so.

[@pjutama]

Salute to Prof Kishore Mahbubani for a wonderful show of his knowledge in this debate. He has all his facts to counter the biased view of Tom!

[@jz7292]

The change in the poll simply shows how severe prejudice against China is

[@skazka3789]

But Kishore more than doubled the opposed vote from 16 to 33% and took off 10% of the for vote. A testament to his persuasive abilities.

[@skazka3789]

@Remo Gaggi I agree!

[@fluxmuldar]

That's what happens when Western MSM bombards people with anti-China news 24 hours a day, without any opposing viewpoints to balance it out.

[@MrTioung111]

@@skazka3789 you can say that Kishore WON the debate actually.

[@skazka3789]

@@MrTioung111 Yeah Tom Asshat got shredded a new one

[@中華傲訣]

Your debate against Kishore about China can’t win at all because the West hasn’t have prominent scholars who possess pragmatism and see things as it is. Any pragmatic western scholars will be hidden under the bed because they could never be ‘ popular’ in the Western Hemisphere if they say out what they think. It will undermine the political correctness in that region!

[@clarashih1965]

I am from Hong Kong and I support the Chinese government. Respect Hong Kong and China and stop interfering and stop your position that you have the moral high ground to our society. Britain should be wise - this is not 1842 and the Chinese are not afraid of standing up to imperialism and post colonialism.

[@ianlam6107]

5 Cent?

[@XYZ-eu8ns]

@@ianlam6107 USA 🐶？

[@michaelteng6076]

Agree with you absolutely

[@rayeo128]

This debate clearly show who is wise and respected and who made himself a fool

[@streetman6661]

i am sorry for Mahbuhani having to deal with such a low standard fellow debaters and host.

[@christopherbong6639]

Kishore is much more eloquent and intelligent in his speech.

[@petergreen5337]

And actual as well.

[@deemont8838]

@@petergreen5337 Factual.

[@Michaelwklee]

Miles apart.

[@mathewmathew08]

Kishore always has wise comments.

[@Andy-P]

Kishore is saying submit to China to the UK. Not wise from my point of view in the UK. Maybe for you if you are Chinese.

[@MikeyJJJ]

@@Andy-P Incorrect. Just because Kishore advocates the west to not be an antagonistic presence in AsiaPac, does not mean the west needs to submit. The world is not binary, and the majority of the world's people (not in the west) do not hold narrow binary views. There is a whole spectrum between antagonism and submission. Cooperation, competition, and co-existence are just a handful of examples.

[@Andy-P]

@@MikeyJJJ Kinda agree with what you say here mostly. In AsiaPac the west believes in freedom of the SCS and that China does not own it. Standing up for what not only the west but other countries in AsiaPac believe.

[@MikeyJJJ]

@@Andy-P The SCS is thousands of miles from the US. Incidentally, so is the Middle East. Also, China does not seek to "own" the SCS, as the west has so fervently try to put it. It seeks to secure its own freedom of navigation, seeing that the US has military bases all along its eastern seaboard - a strategic move of national security that even I, a citizen of SEA, can empathize.

[@Andy-P]

@@MikeyJJJ China is allowed freedom of navigation anywhere on the high sea's just like anyone else. China I thought does claim the SCS and all the commercial rights within and the right to expel foreign warships. If I'm wrong then thank you for correcting me. But I don't think that is the case.

[@josephsiew8494]

The coronavirus could very well be leaked from Fort Detrick in July 2019.

[@zeissiez]

Indeed. Let’s compare Hong Kong and New York Hong Kong (left) vs New York (right) Population (2020) : 7.5 mil vs 8.5 mil Tourist count (2018): 65.1 mil vs 65.2 mil Tourist from China(2018): 51 mil vs 1.1 mil Distance fr Wuhan: 919km vs 12033km Covid19 cases (24th Apr): 1,000 vs 271,000 Covid19 cases (5th Nov): 5,000 vs 530,000 Travelers from China : “No ban” vs “Banned since 2 Feb” Human were thought to be originated from Europe because it’s where the early-human skull was FIRST DISCOVERED. Until..... they found Lucy in Ethiopia.

[@jonsnow8853]

+1

[@markchan8110]

The real title should be " Is Time for the rest of the World to get Tough with the West".

[@madmanjshum]

Wow! Professor Kishore totally wipe the floor with our English representative in this debate. I am so embarrass when he was taught a history lesson on the atrocities we inflicted on China. Wow

[@michaelyu6048]

Honorable Mahbubani, you have my full respect on your use of facts & wisdom from your world experience, thanks

[@aznknight22]

Tom, if you have to lie to make a point, you know you're paid.

[@Andy-P]

More lies from the other side

[@sword7872]

Yes Tom was repeating lots of lies. He doesn't fool people who know the truth.

[@Andy-P]

@@sword7872 The bigger lies are from Kishore. This is a better debate. Kishore debate with someone more knowlegeable. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ_OdGp9jdJ_mtE

[@sword7872]

@@Andy-P how so? Kishore used facts to back up his arguments whereas Tom was just repeating msm lies. And also Tom was very unprofessional in his debating referring to style of writing which had nothing to do with the arguments. I really believe he was paid for the lies.

[@Andy-P]

@@sword7872 Paid by who? He is a politician so is paid by the tax payer. The debate was about UK giving in and coming to terms with China or getting tough. A better debate is on the link I posted. The bigger question - has China won is debated. I think the answer is that the 'battle' between China & America has only just begun so China has not won - yet? I don't think it will.

[@buttert5091]

This debate is like a Tiger 🐯 vs a cat 🐈, the difference in quality is clear

[@deemont8838]

Tom cat!

[@AmelieZh]

Why, logically, why? Because China have a system that worked for her own country?

[@ywwo5933]

I'm a normal Chinese people from Southwest province. I have traveled 2 times to EU(Germany France Netherland)in 2015 and 2017，after I realized the truth of west. I love my motherland China more.

[@MRTY323]

Wow, the hegemonic angst coming from Tom is quite palpable.

[@PavelZaitsev]

Hegemobic china thinks it owns the world

[@jasonsun01]

Somebody once said: there are two types of people regarding China, those who are always negative about China, and those who have been to China. There is really not much point having this debate in public in a western country simply because the western media is overwhelmingly biased against China, and public opinion is dictated by the media. If China is truly so oppressive, every year there are 150 million people traveling to outside China for holiday, these are holiday makers touring around on their own for sightseeing, shopping, cruising etc, and they are all willingly going back to China to continue to be ‘ oppressed’, please think about that!

[@leealvin6820]

well said 👍

[@dominicwmyan7164]

Fair comment from Gympie

[@solo8ph]

My question is this: "By what moral right do they have to try to get tough on China?" Look first to what they have done to others before criticizing China. As for Australia, my question is, is it okay if a person from the west makes an editorial or a political satire but not okay if the same is made by China?

[@somethinglikethisone6635]

The answer is yes: the most famous one is Charlie magazine, and the most recent one was Denmark’ Covid-19 infected Chinese flag.

[@646Lim]

Most of them suffering from alzhemeir, they just cannot remember the evil things they have been doing to other countries.

[@ericchen4549]

With a apparent biased host, Kishore still won this debate gracefully. No he turned this debate into his interview.

[@basho883]

OMG！ This UK speaker is so imprisoned by his biased viewpoint of China that whenever he spoke, I can't stop laughing.

[@ylr622]

This is a useless debate, the arguments for the motion are based on agressive MSM lies to begin with.

[@vincentho3964]

@Marco - yes you are right, I agree with you absolutely. Tom is simply REPEATING, LIKE A PARROT, ad nauseam all the lies that he have swallowed from Western politicians and media. He should heed Kishore's advice : get off his butt and visit and investigate China on the ground for himself and stop making a fool of himself.

[@soonpohtay4794]

Did UK followed International laws when they joined the US in the illegal war invading Iraq!

[@Hmyt-yucca]

Obviously not, UK and many all participated western countries were just followed blindly to invade Iraq, Syria and Libya just named a few. They are just ganged up for bullying spree. Disgusting? Well it’s the way the west behaves, awfully inhuman.

[@kurikoweiber5926]

Dont forget Canada and its "rule of law" participated in the illegal invasion of iraq too.

[@gimmijones596]

Listed all these nonsense talking point human rights, which they abusing everyday

[@gopalrajkumar7323]

The west are the worst violaters of human rights.

[@lesselp]

Your channel has no content. You create accounts for political trolling.

[@skazka3789]

@@lesselp You clearly haven't heard of private accounts, not everyone that watches KZbin is a KZbinr lmao 😂, can't believe this needed to be said

[@lesselp]

@@skazka3789 You clearly haven't heard of Russian and Chinese troll accounts that are almost all 'private'/no content. Those trolls also don't understand what 'debate' means or what 'journalism' means. They go to any video or forum where Russia or China is mentioned and take everything as an attack by 'the West'. Look at other videos on this channel and you will see debates against 'the West'. That is what debate and journalism is.

[@skazka3789]

@@lesselp Calling people you disagree with "trolls" is a massive cope

[@nigelnevinfreesnowdenandas3895]

Kishore Mahbubani, what a wise man! RESPECT!!!!!

[@theimpartialview5728]

Voice of reason and sanity from a great thinker, Kishore Mahbubani

[@victormaidah3852]

The world must not be blackmailed by a few countries in the west. Values! Not really Just greed

[@Liboch]

Omg, this is the quality of the chair of the commons foreign affairs committee. Unbelieable. Good luck uk.

[@fsteh787]

FREE People? Jack Ma! Does Tom even understand what he is saying?

[@danielchiayizhen92]

He don't understand. He just say of the sake of saying.

[@dannywong2441]

You want to work with FREE PEOPLE?? Tom, do you know how many Chinese tourists FREELY travel out of China to visit the world AND WENT BACK FREELY to their home country, CHINA?? Tom, YOU ARE Sooo IGNORANT !!!! DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you come on to debate !!!

[@bennytham1446]

Prof. Kishore read books. Tom listen to those so call expert miss leading him 😂😂

[@tsushantasingh]

I suspect he is not misled. He is probably a soldier trying to maintain the prominence of western political ideology. They cant tolerate that a different political system other than electoral (liberal democracy) can be economically successful. A remnant of a dying era of western hegemony. Hegemons will not give up their hegemony so easily.

[@JIMMY-nz1ld]

In reality it's time for China to get tough on the west.

[@too1979]

it got me worried Tom chair foreign affairs. he argument is bias and baseless without fact.

[@Andy-P]

He is an electred representative and he stated the facts.

[@MiB-]

@@Andy-P Aha

[@justify3733]

@@Andy-P Hitler was also an elected representative. Tom's "facts" are unsubstantiated, just religiously followed Murdock's propaganda to smear China.

[@Andy-P]

@@justify3733 If you want to look to similarties. Late 30's Germany with China now. Control of the press, an aggrieved nation, new military, territorial desires, claiming to be the saviour of a race, concentration camps. Its all there. Finally the supreme leader. It just a train crash waiting to happen.

[@Mmmmmmmwwww]

@@Andy-P pathetic. Chinese people today view the brainwashed westerners like you with deep sympathy, you don’t even have freedom to access truth in your western environment

[@lwty]

Tom Tugendhat really need to come to China to experience normal people's lives in China. "I am helping Chinese people by speaking out for them" is totally hallucination.

[@Myway0107]

Tom, you are so short minded. British and the some of the western countries need to apologize to the world for the atrocities they committed in recent years and through out the history of its colonization of other countries and China!

[@bbharatillusion4574]

Well done Kishore..you proved that reasons and fact can change opinions..

[@jetfightercn]

west is like failed exam, then let us get tough on teacher.. what a joke..

[@jurgenangler5294]

Mr. Kishore nail it to the head. Why US & UK didn't follow the international accord of leave Diego Garcia island?? This island is not belong to the anglo. and Kishore also said Taiwan is part of China since hundred years ago. Not to mention HK was forced by the british under gunpoint. Well said Mr. Kishore.. 👏👏👏

[@khtan585]

Was there a move on "getting tough" on the USA for waterboarding like the current move on China? Hypocrisy at its best.

[@seekeeng3618]

Prof Mabubani speaks for the benefit of the masses, while Tom stands with the elite.

[@liechinmannorman5140]

It's more likely that Tom's Stand is of the old school. He is talking about something out of nothing.

[@alfeeman]

In a sentence, Kishore kicks ass with logic and fact

[@jadebell2889]

It does not do Kishore justice having to debate with a guy like Tom.

[@pohkhui]

Watching a mental breakdown guy vs wise man man debate. Kishore is wasting his time debating with a lunatic.

[@patrickx6940]

I think Tom was in Beijing in the times of Mao's cultural revolution ...

[@philchoy2885]

Those in glass house should not throw stones.

[@hhww121]

it’s long overdue China should get tough on the west

[@japilim]

Intelligence squared? One intelligent head and one squared head. Choose your pick. I prefer the former diplomat from Singapore. Which one do you pick?

[@ruohaoli7503]

Can’t even distinguish a drawing from a photo...

[@中華傲訣]

But that drawing looks so authentic.

[@abhishekmhatre1554]

Not only that but he's more concerned about a drawing than actual war crimes committed by Australian soldiers. It's like someone blaming a mirror for their looks.

[@EdgarTheOnion]

@@中華傲訣 go google on the term "Photobashing", its a form of art by the way

[@jy7883]

中华傲诀 But there is no such thing as big puzzles with Afghan flags painted on.

[@Coumei2009]

@@abhishekmhatre1554 great!

[@mathewmathew08]

I feel very sorry for that western man.

[@alanfriesen9837]

I don't think Tom Tugendhat's version of reality matches actual reality. His description of Beijing does not match at all my experience of three years ago. I think he's projecting a dystopian fantasy that may have been correct half a century ago, but has since died at the hands of competence, hope, vision, and opportunity.

[@greenbeanfroggy3177]

This little British is fading, doesn't matter what he speaks, he might think he live in 100 years ago. No one really cares about what he says, and Britain is just a third-class country, and that's it.

[@misterhill5598]

Let’s do part 2: it’s time the East gets tough on USA.

[@somethinglikethisone6635]

Enough is enough, Let’s admit it, US has been bullying many countries including some of their allies, ever since USSR collapsed. Just for everyone’s benefit, maybe when stronger China exists, US will stop bullying others in between and be nice again.

[@cizagui]

The conservative MP is totally unprepared to debate and all he does is mumble boilerplate statements that he repeated over and over. Kishore crushed his opponent.

[@fungj.w2144]

I am Chinese, and also have been aboard several years (including US, Austrailia, Germany, Singapore), studying and learning from my forgein supervisors and colleagues. I was anti-CCP (chinese communist party) before I went aboard. But the longer time I am staying aboard, the more I am standing with CCP, although definitely there are hundreds of wrongdoing made by CCP. China had been powerful in the past 1800 years, and dluge or sank into the bottom two hundred years ago because of arrogance. Now China together with 1.4 billion people are hard-working to try to climb to the position where we initially belong to. During the development, have we ever evaded any country? No! Have we put any arm to other country to take over the resources? No! The development is brought by millions of hard working people step by step, and hundreds of thousdans students studying aboard and bringing back the new technology. The CCP already took 700 million people out of provety. Which country in the world is so responsible to try to bring every citizen to modernization? The answer to that can be seen from the number of homeless people in every country during the pandemic. in China, these people can be offered a free house. Just give us, 1.4 billion Chinese people, a reason why you need to get tough with China. Now the west is taking the same road the China was sinking: arrogance. The arrogance to new rising power, arrogance to new technology. No mattter what's the superfacial problem you are mentioning, it is the arrogance that is the deeply looted reason in your heart, and make you blind.

[@leealvin6820]

Let me correct you, .... You may be anti-old CCP but not the new communisr party. They had constantly reformed to become people's loving party.

[@ylr622]

The "old CCP" (pre-reform era I suppose) is usually seen for its monumental mismanagements. But in reality, it's achievements far outweighs it's failures. Since CCP came into power, it has provided the unity (centralized governance) and the security (nuclear and rocketry capabilities), which are foundations on which China can be rebuilt. Even before economic reform, CCP has already provided public education and healthcare, free housing, cleared all national debts, and initiated land reform just to name a few. So when the time came to abandon pure communism, Deng was able to successfully carry out his economic reforms.

[@fungj.w2144]

@@ylr622 You know China quite a lot. Everything you told is correct. In the western media, the failures or mishandles made by CCP are exaggerated, and therefore the commonplace people attribute every bad luck to CCP or China.

[@ylr622]

@@fungj.w2144 yes, having lived in both China and abroad helped me fully understand and appreciate what the CCP is doing. So this "getting tough" on China is nothing new, because the West has been demonizing China/CCP since the very beginning.

[@MegaSuehan]

A country with no human rights have no right to criticise another country based on 'lies '.

[@stealthpakfa]

Kishore is correct.

[@foowayne2947]

As a Singaporean, I will definitely elect Kishore Mahbubani as our next Prime Minister.

[@Michael-kv9pp]

Watched this because of Kishore.