Declining Birth Rates and the Case for Kids | Louise Perry

[@StimParavane]

I am 55 years old and only now do I earn enough to have a family. This is ridiculous.

[@aafgahfah]

i don’t know you and done wish to argue, but it’s a fact that thi biggest families in the u.k. comes from the poorest levels of society

[@silverdale3207]

@@aafgahfah That's because the really poor get all sorts of handouts from the government to help , if you're middle class you're pretty much on your own.

[@skylinefever]

@@silverdale3207 I would love to see the birth numbers of "Can't feed 'em don't breed 'em" was the law.

[@agees924]

Exactly, by the time this generation can have kids we will be too old! That’s the scary thing. Our government whines about low birth rates but I truly believe our anti-family economy is part of the depopulation agenda and they won’t tell us.

[@colbalt95]

Well that's the beauty of being a man if you are one. Time is a man's Ally

[@funicon3689]

id rather not spawn another generation of slaves for the Central Banks

[@johncarmichael104]

Chicken and Egg. The Oligarchs destroyed the middle class and are now complaining that there is no middle class.

[@lucyross5478]

This. Capitalism saw a victory in atomizing workers. Capitalist busted unions, drove up the price of housing, goods and services. Now that people are really and truly on their own, economically, they say it's selfish for individuals (especially women) to opt out of parenthood because of the expense.

[@nationalskyline]

Nailed it!

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

True

[@edilee5909]

Exactly

[@skylinefever]

This is what line go up next fiscal quarter thinking does.

[@Max-ht9hf]

one factor is the wealth gap where young people can't afford their own homes because they are too expensive and their wages don't cover the costs involved.

[@suezcontours6653]

ABORT BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@skylinefever]

Only the upper class and welfare class can afford children.

[@Foxie770]

You don’t need to own a home to have children. Most people don’t own their first home until they already had kids and were married a few years. The real isis that people are not getting married early enough and working towards building a life together. Every one is doing things on their own.

[@jaughnekow]

​@@Foxie770is it their fault? The advice out there is being selfish cos that's the best way to live. And thanks to the high cost of living, that advice seems kinda true unfortunately

[@agees924]

@@Foxie770 Well yes you can have kids in a 2-3 bedroom apartment or rented home but even those are too expensive.

[@Arrabella2024]

Beijing is not trying everything. Corporations coerce people into working six days a week for 12 hours each day. It's called 996, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. 6 days a week. While it's technically illegal, laws against it aren't enforced. Please tell me how it's possible to have a family having to work those hours? Similar types of hyper-work cultures exist in Korea and Japan.

[@skylinefever]

The corporate overlords just want more grist for the mill. It wants to exploit the current population, and have a future population of exploitables. People go on strike.

[@agees924]

Forget a family you can’t even sleep on that kind of schedule.

[@SpiKSpaN-ei6zq]

I did the 996 all through my 20s and still do occasionally. It's not worth it

[@Arrabella2024]

@@SpiKSpaN-ei6zq I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I don't blame the youth of China for lying flat. I would do the same thing if I were a young person in China, or Korea, or Japan now.

[@Enormous866]

He is in his white man bubble

[@jimb3093]

It looks miserable to marry and have kids. I just look at folks, stressed out, sexless, then divorces. I stayed away from that institution.

[@yeshalloween]

I’m sorry you feel that way. Today is my 12 year wedding anniversary. My husband and I are very happy together. We have four children who are the light of our lives. I wish I had twice as many.

[@latecheckout11]

​@@yeshalloweenthis is not feeling. this is reality to everyday growing marriages and families.

[@kilduce4423]

@@yeshalloweenhow are y’all able to afford 4 children? What state do y’all live in?

[@jeremystonell690]

@@kilduce4423 It has nothing to do with state unless you mean New York or bay area. Key things people need to do to save a lot of money are not buy takeout, live where it's cheapest within about 1hr of work, take public transport or cheapest transport etc. Most people can save a lot of money just by cooking for themselves.

[@kilduce4423]

@@jeremystonell690 “save a lot of money and not buy take out”. I don’t think it’s that easy with 4 kids. Unless you bought your house prior to the so called bubble.

[@hvacdesignsolutions]

This woman obviously lives in her own little bubble. If you can't afford a home, which many younger people can't, what's the point of having kids. That's the real issue........cost of living. Why would you want to pass that generational hardship on to your kids??

[@hvacdesignsolutions]

@@mdp_lady She's promoting her books.

[@ilikevines]

But why do the poorest people have the most children in every society on earth?

[@annawong1305]

​@@ilikevineschildren in poor countries are free labour. But in the rich West, sadly they're seen as more of a liability, financially speaking.

[@ilikevines]

@@annawong1305 even in the west the most fertile demographic are welfare dependents who view their children as a state benefits meal ticket.

[@joemahony4198]

@@mdp_ladyYes to both but the talk does not address the economic realities of average young people.

[@JessieCori]

The majority is getting poorer and poorer and poorer. Why bring kids into that?

[@JezaLoki]

What’s your evidence? From what I’ve seen, wealth and living standards have been increasing globally for decades now. There are fewer people in poverty than at any other time in human history.

[@teoleno4019]

So Ellon Musk and Bill Gates have slaves to work for their sons when they grow up.

[@vladimirofsvalbard9477]

@@JezaLoki Use an inflation calculator for the USD and come back later. The USD has lost more than half it's value since 1980. We had 40% inflation alone since January 2020.

[@Bootyeater999]

@@JezaLokiyou’re not that smart are you?

[@JezaLoki]

@@Bootyeater999 asking for evidence disrupts your victim narrative, hey? There are fewer people in poverty than ever before. That's a fact. But you perpetual victims are still looking for something to be offended by, microaggressions, gender wage gaps and this idea that people are becoming "poorer and poorer and poorer". Define your terms. What does it mean and over what time period and who exactly are you talking about ? Actually, forget it. Just stay in your safe space away from facts.

[@kefilwem8284]

I am a 38 year old South African🇿🇦 and I chose not to have children because I hated the way I grew up, and I refuse to let another human being suffer through that. I am often told to have just one child because I can afford it. However, people seem to dismiss other factors involved in rearing a child. I know that I am emotionally immature, short tempered, deep, unresolved, scars from my past etc.. How can I possibly become someone's mother.

[@dicerevo]

You could tackle your issue. If you’re self aware enough to know you suffer from these issues then you’re mature enough to tackle them. I mean no disrespect but this just sounds like excuses.

[@DEadSpaCE211]

Start praying to God to make you whole so you can bring in offspring into the world.

[@aucatag]

As a parent of three, often having a child is the catalyst that helps you to become the person you need to be for them. Don't wait till you're perfect, you will never have kids. You will rise to the occassion. But make sure you don't do it alone. Wisely choose someone who will make a good father, who is prepared to make a life long commitment and promise to help you rear them, and one day your children's children... Go well!

[@BOZ_11]

@@dicerevo "but this just sounds like excuses" - flippancy is the mark of a tw@t

[@yeshalloween]

I am 41 and my parents were horrible. I carry a lot of lingering pain from the neglectful mother. But I am a mother of four and I am very devoted and present. My children are everything to me. You don’t have to be doomed to being a horrible parent just because that’s what you came from.

[@josephl9619]

One thing thats never,mentioned in these discussions is that in the past people lived near their children and grandchildren. They got to enjoy many years of the fruits of their labour. Nowadays most dont. At 18 they leave and its just phone calls and a few visits from then on. That is a huge difference

[@johnavellar7331]

And some have told me that the visits become fewer and fewer as time goes on.

[@city_of_coompton6832]

In the past it was an economic benefit to have kids. In the West today, the way our society is set up, it's a net financial drain

[@simonanderson1433]

I want to have kids and raise them near my parents for the support network. Can't afford a home in this capital city. True conservatives care about such things.. the LNP long stopped caring. Social contract is busted

[@imout671]

Mostly Because people owned enough land to give their children a portion. Buy a few acres close by and let the kids build on it. Also many people put on a big feed after church each Sunday. Everyone brings a side and you get to spend the day with your kids and grandchildren. We do that often.

[@silverdale3207]

True, I only live half an hour from my Dad (mum died last year)I see him once or twice a week , I couldn't imagine not regularly seeing the people who raised me. It's a pleasure knowing he enjoys the company. It makes me sad seeing parents whose kids have gone overseas and they have no-one to visit them in the later life

[@chemtrooper1]

I’ve met too many people who had no business becoming parents, dragging their children through their own BS or flat out neglecting/abusing them. Many of us survived childhood, we didn’t thrive in it, so I can empathize with choosing not to bring children into this world. All I hear from these discussions is the economic impacts of population decline; never food security, healthcare, education, climate change, human flourishing, etc. If we are nothing more than economic units, then perhaps we should just quit playing the game…

[@nathanaeltang8853]

Seems like you haven’t been paying much attention

[@jamesrodgers3132]

Food and health have INCREASED beyond population increase. There is far less poverty THROUGHOUT THE WORLD than there was 20 years ago when the population was far smaller. And climate change is not man-made, no matter how often the governement and media repeat that assertion. The scientists who say it is are paid to say it is, and the ones who don't aren't allowed a voice. Follow the money.

[@LadyPatienceK]

​@@nathanaeltang8853I was about to say the same.

[@SDB_Dev]

You don't think food security, healthcare and education are tied to the economy of a country at all? They are intertwined quite tightly.

[@Shikuesi]

We're more, but not less. And good luck with either the flourishing or the healthcare in a massively aged population, regardless of its absolute size. Plus it's kind of a non sequitur to think your children would have it as bad as you did when you're one who's at least aware of what went wrong in your upbringing and could therefore be relied on to avoid those mistakes yourself.

[@kellharris2491]

Everyone is worrying for nothing. We have more people in the world then there has ever been. Maybe economies aren't supposed to grow indefinitely. Things will even out eventually.

[@LongDefiant]

Capitalism can't handle decline of any form.

[@mariothibau1070]

When societies collapse surely things will even out. You can’t go lower then the stone age i am sure.

[@kellharris2491]

@@mariothibau1070 It only takes a generation or 2 for all of the boomers to die out. Without them as a burden on the millenials and there being less children born things will start to rebound. The problem right now for most countries is there is too many old people that the new and current generation can't support.

[@knightheaven8992]

@@kellharris2491 New generation cant support it because arent enough young active people contributing

[@denesejamerson2356]

So true.

[@ashleybennett4418]

They wolves are unhappy the sheep have stopped reproducing

[@ashleybennett4418]

The*

[@newtonia-uo4889]

except these are the sheepdogs, not the wolves.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

They sure are. Yet the sheep are quite content .

[@newtonia-uo4889]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 quite content with the wolves, I agree. Something is wrong here and it ought to be fixed.

[@funicon3689]

well put

[@paulstilwell764]

Our government sure gets scared when it looks like it won’t have the tax base to pay for it like it hopes for lol

[@evilds3261]

And then, eventually, corporations will have to sacrifice their profits to get consumers to buy stuff.

[@ebomb1133]

I've had so many people over the years ask when my wife and I are going to have kids. I tell them they are too expensive to have and am always met with "oh you'll never have enough money, so you might as well have them!" That logic still perplexes me. I can barely afford to take care of just us and our 2 dogs. Looking back on my childhood, I know how much they can cost

[@christins.1481]

If one income can't afford for basic necessities, rent, one used vehicle, basic income for a minimum of two children, regular hospital visits for the children with $100 left weekly in the bank. You shouldn't be having kids. That's what we're talking when we say we can't afford kids. Affording kids means four people on one income. That's not reality now. Both me and my husband came from one income families and multiple kids. We became adults and saw the collapse in the economy and made the choice not to have any. We made the right call. Would have been homeless and living in poverty, with children.

[@Hollyucinogen]

Children cost $10,000 on average before their 18th birthday, and those aren't even current statistics - it's probably even more now. Why the f*ck would anybody want to bring children into a world of poverty and COV!D? 🤔

[@silverdale3207]

Yep , by their logic you might as well buy a Ferrari to run those little sweethearts to school as well.

[@azmodanpc]

@@silverdale3207 Yep, and the first to criticize if those children are not raised up with all the bells and whistles that are now expected (higher education, childcare, healthcare). Not everyone is a 1%, after all. Two financial crises, one pandemic later and still we are discussing how no one wants to have children anymore? It takes 250k to raise a child to adulthood. It's a full fledged mortgage in some countries.

[@Nitronic99]

Why would you give this corrupt society your children? No offense to the people who wanted children, had children and love their children, God bless you. But this corrupt society tries to eat your soul at every turn so why would you give your most blesséd creation to it? You'll be reborn in another time that's more worthy of them.

[@SpiKSpaN-ei6zq]

Amen. It's a sick world

[@wamnicho]

Amen, I wish I could give you 2 million likes, this society is so evil and corrupt that sometimes I wish for a nuclear war

[@PennyNickelMcGee]

I like to think that maybe my kid will fight in the revolution some day, the one that ends the corruption and tries to fix things.

[@JenniferRusso5]

I'm not cruel enough to force an innocent being into this world.

[@cirtainrod9492]

I was abused as a kid. Hard pass.

[@ddez]

how about making things cheaper? how about making salaries higher??? these people are trying to lecture us because they are not the ones who are going to have to afford them

[@jackdelane]

True, but their point still stands. children are the future... without children society will collapse, our cities will start to resemble Detroit and the cost of the old will overpower the meger production of a small working class.... everything will be more costly if society goes that route.... things will work out in the end, but there will be decades of decay and struggle as society collapses, cities rot, and we rebuild from the ashes

[@jackdelane]

We pay more for child care than our mortgage, so I understand the struggle. Things being cheaper would be great, but how you go about achieving that is complicated.... one interesting way to do it could be to tax the childless to pay mothers or daycares, but I don't think people will jump on that lol

[@rathelmmc3194]

Forget about money for a second. The way things become cheaper is through efficiency and I'm skeptical that we're much more efficient than we were in the 1980s. So the way that people have been increasing their standard of living in the interim is by debt. What actually needs to happen is our standard of living return back to what our salaries can afford.

[@rathelmmc3194]

@@jackdelane As governments get more desperate they will definitely tax the childless extra to pay for people to have children.

[@knightheaven8992]

@@rathelmmc3194 They already do that in my country and in several others im sure. ( married couples pay fewer taxes)... it doesnt matter, people still dont have more kids. In fact birth rate has actually decreased of late

[@shakespearecowboy47]

As of there aren't plenty of kids to adopt. The problem is society doesn't know how to care about the people already here.

[@rathelmmc3194]

Why do people think there's all these kids up for adoption? There's actually not that many kids up for adoption, and on top of that most people don't want to adopt teenagers.

[@heyhey439]

@rathelmmc3194 Most people don't want to have kids lol. Did you know that children turn into teenagers? Funny how it goes round and round.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

@@rathelmmc3194 "most people don't want to adopt teenagers" Well boohoo for them. Tough sh*t. They could be teenagers. They could be 90-year old adults. If they need adopting, they need adopting. Nobody is entitled to have others breed adorable little babies for them to adopt.

[@rathelmmc3194]

@@theultimatereductionist7592 Hey you're right about that, but the reality is people aren't going to adopt teenagers and older on average.

[@stanleybrantley5722]

As a 26 year old who lives in a studio apartment and no car payment and still lives check to check I literally have no place for a kid to be sheltered. Studio apartments are being built next to me for 2k USD each. Maybe late stage capitalism Is the cause of this “suicide”

[@TonyTheTGR]

Look, as long as it takes 100 hours to pay your rent, it's not happening.

[@darkangel686868]

Does she not know of the well known study showing that high IQ women actively choose to be child free? High IQ women with access to contraception, make decisions based on facts, data, reality. Women with not as high IQ may be more likely to base decisions on emotions, and hope. Women have become more intelligent and have more choice. Celebrate it, don’t bash it. The idea of pension/retirement is over any. We will work till we drop.

[@skylinefever]

Some conservatives don't want to admit that their obsession with birth rates is an obsession with not having the Idiocracy outbreed the smart people. However, if they were REALLY smart, maybe they would lose their anti abortion stance, and instead have a pro abortion stance that was designed by Margaret Sanger.

[@emptyeye1]

They kind of brush off the idea of the housing crisis, like it’s manageable but hard. No it’s absolutely unmanageable and impossible. This is the issue it NEEDS to be solved first.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

EXACTLY!

[@desertcountryliving2357]

The housing market is difficult but it's not impossible. If you choose to view it as impossible and throw your hands in the air it is just an excuse as to why you havent achieved those things. My husband and I have 4 kids and I'm a stay at home mom, and we where still able to buy a house in 2021 plus 80+ acres of land and a six stall horse barn. It was very hard we had to bust our butts and save everything we could for the down payment but we did. It is completely achievable if you stop making excuses and work towards a goal. "The housing market is impossible" is just an excuse to not have to take on the responsibility of children and an excuse not to sacrifice any of your wants/lifestyle for children.

[@breadfella]

Yeah you cant have kids in a one bedroom apartment

[@frankcastle2876]

My blood line dies with me. You're welcome future world. Hope it all works out...

[@tc-tm1my]

Same

[@JenniferRusso5]

Same.

[@jragon9215]

Well mine is doing just fine

[@dulcilass]

The youth of China are calling themselves the Last Generation as they are saying NO to dating, NO to marriage, NO to having kids and NO to buying a house. Their folks are really upset.

[@lukasm6905]

Same 😊

[@heidilee3290]

Silent protest of women who have been treated so poorly for so long.

[@samrc8350]

I find this woman patronising. She’s completely disparaging all the rational things that stop people having kids, not being about to afford a house etc, and is just saying ‘just have kids’. There’s not even an argument.

[@saralikeskiwi]

she lost me when she implied that people concerned about climate change are just lying and don't want to admit that the real reason is not wanting to give up their lifestyle. as though climate change is not very likely to be a major existentialist concern for the next generation.

[@rathelmmc3194]

@@saralikeskiwi Climate change won't be an issue for a minimum of 100 years. Earth used to be at least 10 degrees Celsius warmer than it is today so it's perfectly survivable. IPCC projections are that by the end of the century we'll be around 2.5 Celsius warmer (band is actually 2 to 4). So it's not really a reason not to have a child. Louise's point still stands that previous humans went through far more trauma than humans today and they still had children.

[@jamieharknett9620]

First of all it isn’t. Climate change is a problem and not an existential doomsday threat. Second she is totally spot on when she said that they knew that our ancestors knew that only about 50% of their kids would survive past childhood. Thirdly, so what if you’re not able to afford a house? Many cultures have multiple generations living under the same roof but because we in the west want everything for ourselves we lead the most expensive lifestyles.

[@neo1053]

​@@jamieharknett9620well most people don't want that lifestyle

[@killingjoke90]

It isn't really about ''not being able to afford''. We have a higher standard of living than ever before. Yes, house prices have gone up but people can compromise on other luxuries that we now take for granted.

[@garywanner7860]

Over the years I’ve discovered that my personality is a very effective form of birth control.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

I have proudly made 4 billion women very happy by not marrying them!

[@BanjoPixelSnack]

I chose not to have kids because I come from a long line of intergenerational trauma; BPD and child SA in my mother’s side of the family, schizophrenia in my fathers side; there have been three suicides among my close family relatives in the past 15 years, for example. I struggle with depression, anxiety and OCD. It would be utterly irresponsible of me to have had children. Finally at 40 years old I feel like I am on a somewhat even keel but as a woman it’s too late for me to have children now. I have had no mental health support from the NHS, what I have had I’ve managed to scrape together and pay for privately. My mother, uncle, cousin were all just put on anti depressant and went on to take their own lives. … I have awful visions of how badly I would have f4ckd up the lives of my children had I had them. I have pets now and they make me feel less alone and allow me to express my nurturing nature, I won’t apologise for that and I don’t care to be ridiculed for it either. Don’t judge people until you’ve walked in their shoes.

[@gramanostrinidad1275]

Your situation is demands much sympathy and cannot be described as normal but rather as an anomaly..... I definitely am not referring my point to such an anomaly as yourself.... your Life and that of your family is very sad.... I sympathise with all of you..... my point refers to run of the mill people.... so sorry that you can’t see my heart...turn to Jesus and repent of any known sin ... pray for his intercession in your life and watch a miracle take place

[@jg5615]

@gramanostrinidad1275 Her situation is more common than you think. I think it's great that she chose not to continue generational trauma. The solution that you suggested would add to said trauma.

[@MiamiPush2theLimit]

@@gramanostrinidad1275most people have been sexually abused before age 18.

[@skylinefever]

@@gramanostrinidad1275 Many people god their cptsd from hellfire and brimstone sermons.

[@kni9ght]

Sorry to hear that and you are honest enough with yourself to know it isn’t for you, I am glad you found a small bit of peace in the maelstrom of life

[@bonnielovely]

simply put, i don’t want kids. i never did. with more information about kids out there than ever before, all the research i did made me want to have kids even less. it’s expensive, time-consuming, continuous effort. if i don’t have enough for a future college fund, medical bills, a home in my name, and retirement saved, then quite simply, i don’t have enough for a child. it’s irresponsible to “figure it out.” i grew up poor, i wouldn’t wish that lifestyle on anyone.

[@zumagallerte4669]

The problem about "researching having kids" is that you can develop a grasp on the metric side of things: How much it costs on average, how much time parents invest and so on. But you cannot research the overwhelming feeling when your child does it's first steps, tottering towards you with arms stretched out, happy with pride of its achievement. This is what I am going to remember on my death bed.

[@bonnielovely]

@@zumagallerte4669 yes that part is also able to be researched. i already know how that feels for others because i grew up with younger siblings, younger cousins, and on top of that, i had older siblings, friends, and older cousins who i watched have children and how they felt. never did i feel any joy from any child being born. i don’t like holding children either, not even my own newphews. so if a kid “ran into my arms,” i’d likely only be annoyed also, i am neurodivergent, so i won’t just feel happy because a child exists. i have never experienced pride in any achievement from myself or from others. and i don’t like taking care of others. so on my death bed i will remember how i ignored societal pressures to have kids because i knew all along it wasn’t for me. and i have never been the type to make a life-long decision and commitment based on “how i MIGHT feel pride and joy” on my deathbed.

[@skylinefever]

@@zumagallerte4669 True, you can't exactly put a price on those things. However, people can sometimes look at how much of an ROI they get out of other spiritual pursuits and decide if it is worth the price.

[@rathelmmc3194]

I hope you're saving a large sum of money because with current trends Social Security isn't going to be terribly useful in 30+ years. When you're all alone you have to have your finances in order and also hope inflation doesn't wipe away any investments or savings that you may have.

[@bonnielovely]

@@rathelmmc3194 it’s the same thing even with having kids. your kids aren’t guaranteed to work or get jobs. so regardless i would have to save for that

[@jackryan2135]

It would not be a hit to my life style having a kid. It would be full scale, dinosaur ending, asteroid to my lifestyle.

[@aafgahfah]

then you have the wrong lifestyle

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

😂😂😂

[@Foxie770]

I promise you, it’s not. Babies happen and you adapt. Humans have done it since the dawn of time.

[@agees924]

Exactly. Back in the day poor people had kids but the standard for parenting was low. Give them food and a bed and then they can go work the factory or field at age 8. Nowadays each additional child costs like 30% of the average household income. That’s what people don’t understand. Medical bills, speech/educational therapy, clean clothes, and the high cost of food. And due to inflation the cost of babysitting and temporary childcare has gone up a lot. Not to mention that most boomer parents have no interest in babysitting their grandkids like ours did.

[@xrfa7422]

@@agees924 Kids are not that expensive. Even if you make minimum wage, it's not 30% of the household income unless you send them to $60K per year preschool.

[@JezaLoki]

I often think of George Constanza “id like to have a kid…. Of course, you gotta get a date first.” It really speaks to me because years of inceldom in my 20s drove the hope of marriage and children from me.

[@CordeliaWagner]

Adoption.

[@trashpageant7861]

@@CordeliaWagner but then he’d have to raise it!

[@thedalewardens9106]

@@CordeliaWagnerit’s tough if you’re a couple to get an adopted baby. A single dude would be way way way low on the list.

[@Datb2]

Foster

[@heyhey439]

Having children is a luxury and ultimate blessing and responsibility that humans have not appreciated fully and properly for thousands of years. How many of the people walking around now were born to parents that had them out of obligation? Children deserve better and I'm glad to see this change finally.

[@suezcontours6653]

ABORT BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jackdelane]

If it's such a luxury, only the very well off can have kids it means doom for our society. The thought of telling a couple you're kinda lower middle class or poor so give up on parenthood and get a cat seems cruel in a way.

[@heyhey439]

@@jackdelane Luxury, blessing, and responsibility. You read 5 words and assumed the rest.

[@jackdelane]

@@heyhey439 actually 1 word, luxury, the rest makes perfect sense to me

[@heyhey439]

@jackdelane Well, extremely wealthy people have lots of children, having children isn't a necessity, and children are expensive. That was my reason for using that term.

[@bobnewsdog]

If society wants people to have kids or more kids, then they need to lsiten to the reasons people are not having kids and address them. Simply pointing out the negatives and lecturing people is not going to work.

[@qchtohere8636]

Ok, I won't put excuses here: Life's ultimately sh*t (and getting sh*ttier by the day), so why would I want to put another human being through this experience?

[@evilds3261]

Especially if it would only worsen the quality of your own life currently. I mean, why make a bad situation worse?

[@skylinefever]

I was ripped out of perfect nonexistence and sent here. Nobody got my permission.

[@TadanoCandy]

People really only care about themselves. In the past, our ancestors didn’t care if half their children would die if they gave birth, because not having children would put them in a very difficult spot, since they’d lack physical labor that was keeping their families afloat. Today, people don’t have children because children aren’t allowed to work like they were before, so having a child is a detriment to themselves. They’re both equally selfish, just that the times have shifted how that selfishness looks like

[@rowantic6539]

Yes it is totally less selfish to have children and not caring if they die or suffer than to just not have them and skip the suffering part 😂

[@TadanoCandy]

@@rowantic6539 people aren’t having children because they care about the children tho, because if they had the time and money, they’d still have them. Not saying that’s bad, but the decision still centers on improving one’s own life. It’s different from antinatalism (which I support, and therefore whatever form of childlessness is celebrated in my book) which puts avoiding the potential child’s suffering first and foremost

[@lolwtfbbq111]

It's ironic that you say people are self for nothing having kids when before you said that you said that people didn't care if their kids died because not having kids would make their lives difficult. By that logic, could you argue that parenthood is a selfish thing because those people wanted to have kids so they could have an easier life later? So by that logic people without kids are less selfish than people who have kids?

[@TadanoCandy]

@@lolwtfbbq111 Both the parents of the past and the parents of today are selfish because they’re choosing whether or not to have kids based on what is better for their lives rather than what is best for the child. Imo, the best thing for the child is not to be born, regardless of time period (there’s just never a good time to be a human), but others may have a different opinion on this. Whatever the case, people in the past didn’t have children because they thought they would have a great life; they had them because they needed free labor. People in the present refuse to have kids not because they want to spare the kids a lifetime of complex experiences and suffering, but because they want to have more expendable income (or have the bare minimum quality of life be better than what people in the past would’ve put up with). Hope that explained my argument better.

[@kilduce4423]

💯

[@hia5235]

Why should we have kids if it doesnt advantage us You have made it a disadvantage to have kids.

[@evilds3261]

Exactly. More cost than benefit. Poor investment decision to have kids.

[@APar2008]

Most women don’t want kids anymore

[@SpiKSpaN-ei6zq]

Men never did 😂

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

🙋🏻‍♀️👍

[@juliejacobson1432]

Time is human currency. We no longer have Freedom to choose how we spend time having to sell our time for money to pay to live. Increasing consumption to "live better" requires increasing time spent in paid work ( or the pursuit of money) and decreasing time available to spend in natural (unpaid) human activity. Natural human activity is as essential to the economy as it is to the survival of our humanity. The global economy is not helping humans secure resilience because resiliencein ghe face of crisis requires self governance and natural human activity.

[@stevensosebee7452]

I'm 31m I have 1 child, got divorced with a lovely court cases now I am in the process of getting a vasectomy.

[@Żagñùţ01]

Lets just be honest, life is 1000X times easier without the little buggers.

[@NoKidsNoProblem]

I do often spend time with strangers, but that is because I have to. For example, many of my co workers are strangers to me, but I need a job and being around them is thus not a choice. I actually prefer to choose my family rather than just be stuck with one that is biologically related to me. "Our ancestors brought children into the world with the expectation that half of them will die before they turn 5" I would never bring children into this world if I EXPECTED half of them to die. It is not only unethical to subject children to famine, starvation, war, etc, but it is also inhumane, irresponsible, and very cruel. She also mentions that many people who don't want kids are pretending to not have kids for a virtuous reason like not subjecting their kids to the horrors of climate change, and she is right, partially. But the reason that people essentially lie and bring up climate instead of just saying that they don't want the burden of children is because society continuously tells women to have kids and never lets the women forget about it. The women don't want to have to explain themselves or justify their choice so they just bring up climate change as a reason. Can we blame them? No. There is no shortage of people who will nag women endlessly about having kids. Bringing up climate change is a good way to end the conversation quicker. It's similar to what women do when men that they aren't interested in are asking them on a date or are trying to strike up a conversation. They just lie and say "I have a boyfriend" That's them being polite. I personally don't mind. I say the truth about not wanting kids. Kids are burdensome, consume vast amounts of one's time, attention, energy, finances, and other resources. I like to be free and live my life my own way. For women it's harder to be opened like that because society EXPECTS women to have kids. For me it's much easier because I'm a guy. Society needs to stop telling women to have kids. Especially strangers should stop telling women what to do. It's invasive and very disrespectful. They will make up their own minds. Many people seem to forget that in the end it is THEIR CHOICE.

[@skylinefever]

I sometimes think about how many people's reason #1 is simply "I don't want any kids" but it isn't compelling enough.

[@NoKidsNoProblem]

@@skylinefever for a lot of the people that I have seen it is more than enough, but often people have more than one reason for it. For me personally I just don't want kids because they drain all of the things that are important to me such as time, energy, money, etc. But still, even if I did want kids I still wouldn't have them until I healed my traumas, started making enough money, and mentally prepared myself to sacrifice pretty much everything.

[@skylinefever]

@@NoKidsNoProblem My #1 reason has always been "Don't want them" but to be more interesting, I just say "No more future labor units and cannon fodder for the rich oligarchs." Not having kids is the one way the non unionized labor can strike.

[@NoKidsNoProblem]

That makes sense!

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

Thank you! I’m over 40 so the hassle has mostly ended 🙏

[@shadown5757]

In a society in which just a few hold the power (physical and intellectual) and everyone else is expected to work their lives off to support the lifestyle and views of those on the top it is better to let that society die.

[@skylinefever]

Indeed, the bigwigs just keep getting bigger, and hope that the guillotines only come after the next generation.

[@JenniferRusso5]

🎯

[@teep344]

When we can deal with the living children who are in poverty, abuse and lack of education then we can worry about population decline

[@alexr6114]

Brilliant comment. Why would intellgent people bring a child into this world when too many people have no consideration for the health and welfare of other people, even children.

[@boogiedaddie]

How can you create concern over depopulation when we're so overpopulated.

[@whitneyanders5945]

I agree. People waffle on about an individual’s duty and obligation to continue the human race but don’t bother to consider the kids here already who are real and who society should feel obligated towards nurturing to ensure they turn out to be decent, kind human beings. Those who are here can impact the world faster and better than those who are still unborn.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

Idiotic comment. A welfare state or socialized economy relies on young people to even work. Try taxing people who don't work and are a net burden on society like the old and retired. Your analysis is incredibly short-sighted.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

​@@boogiedaddie Not depopulation - birthrate decline. Overpopulation is essentially a myth.

[@thatexcalifornian6124]

I don’t know where everyone is seeing discouragement of parenthood? It’s still expected of us. There’s far more acceptance of being an unhappy parent than there is of opting out of it.

[@seektruth5750]

Acceptance of being an unhappy parent? What does that mean?

[@rebekahmontesdeoca565]

I see it everywhere, every other article or meme is about how terrible being a parent is and how much being "childfree" is. It's ubiquitous.

[@NoKidsNoProblem]

@@rebekahmontesdeoca565 I think the algorithm explains this. I clicked on just one article called "ten benefits of being a parent" and ever since then I get a bunch of recommended articles on google and videos on KZbin about why having kids is beneficial and why people should have them.

[@josephinenelan4204]

@@rebekahmontesdeoca565Yes, lots of hate both ways. As a young parent myself I get to feel the attacks on parenthood and how evil parents are for bringing their kids into this world, and then also no one wants your kids in public because they can’t bear to hear or see them.

[@Tristum1970]

In the small town Midwest , people still think you are weird if you are 30 Plus with no kids

[@produceman13]

These two are totally out of touch with reality... We are NOT safe or comfortable... most folks are barely making it.

[@knightheaven8992]

In comparison to our historic past... we never been safer, and we never been more comfortable as a species as of right now, we also never lived longer... so yeah they are quite correct

[@evilds3261]

@@knightheaven8992Yeah, yeah. In comparison to our past. However, I find no reason to respect something just because it is better than what came before it. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[@pm6613]

Overpopulation, financial costs, insecure world are just some of the sound reasons to not have children.

[@dougpatterson7494]

Overpopulation isn’t really an issue when there isn’t a replacement population. I mean it could be argued there are already too many people on the planet and that the projected population decline is a good thing. It will cause great strife in the future.

[@Foxfried]

it is he issue when housing is 4x the rate of inflation. The system is due for a shock.@@dougpatterson7494

[@naughtynat82]

Well as 41yr old father of 4 (11-16) I will be doing everything I can to help my 4 kids get married and have kids. How anyone can feel the world is tougher now than 100 years ago... If everyone, my kids included, can save for the future then I don't see it as an issue. Most people can not forgo the current desire for the future benefits.

[@aafgahfah]

@@naughtynat82well said and congratulations. As the lady said in the video, our ancestors brought children into the world knowing that half of them would die before the age of 5. What can possibly compare to that?!?

[@naughtynat82]

@@aafgahfah Absolutely. And if we dont teach our kids that how will they know. But also if no one goes thru the crucible at a young age then how can we expect them to when they are older?

[@josephinenelan4204]

We need more automation for caring for the elderly because with these declining birth rates means the elderly will increasingly be left to rot alone as the decades go on.

[@goofusmaximus1482]

You make parenthood a prohibitively expensive venture, it shouldn't surprise you that it wont happen as often.

[@jarrodyuki7081]

Never I’m. Never marrying or having children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@blitzzkrieg1400]

There really is something wrong when society discourages parenthood and when pets are being treated equal to children. For heaven's sake, having pets does not make you a parent!

[@Stupidityindex]

All I hear now is as if we had a future: Guy McPherson has humans extinct by 2026. There is a tank at Fukushima & 350 nuclear reaction motors on the planet. Peak oil discoveries was known in 1956. How many people are aware of how doomed we are, who would have children?

[@r.walker7986]

No one is discouraging parenthood, they are discouraging parenthood as some right of passage or duty to the world. They are aslo encouraging people to only have kids they can afford and have the time to spend raising properly instead of pushing out litters of kids with emotional problems becasue of thinly spread parenting...

[@keh-dalia809]

I'm a diehard animal lover, but I couldn't agree more, animals are not children. But if you haven't found the one to marry and have a family with, which is understandable in this very self centered culture, you end up finding some measure of comfort trying to fill that void with pets. But it will never be the same.

[@robertholland7558]

@@r.walker7986A child is NOT a commodity! The “ can afford “ argument is narcissistic psychopathy, utterly ridiculous and insane.

[@daniangoodman-jones3931]

​@@r.walker7986grow up

[@savagesweetheart90]

Thank God we can choose what to do with our lives not be forced to conform to what society wants. Isn't that the whole point of "individual freedom" that conservatives preach about on a daily basis? There are PLENTY of people who have children that really shouldn't, why bring more suffering into this world? Sounds narcissistic to me

[@anonmouse15]

Freedom is the freedom to live your life in and limited to, a very similar fashion to my own.

[@heyhey439]

Hear hear!

[@tinkertaylor4447]

You argue solely from the perspective of economics. Declining wildlife and wild spaces as humans encroach, declining fish and sea populations as humans overfish, declining climate health as a result of human produced CO2. Overpopulation is the elephant in the room. Before you argue that there are too few humans, you need to tell us what you believe the correct human population should be. Your debate lacks a certain honesty.

[@RenegadeRanga]

Peter Zeihan has already nailed the cause and how urbanization is actually the greatest contraception that has ever existed. Kids go from being an asset and free labour to a liability. John is very aware of the Club of Rome and their depop agenda. It is also written on every UN document in existence, or just about.

[@nikitaw1982]

if raised ur kids properly they would be an asset.

[@joemahony4198]

@@nikitaw1982Disabled children that become disabled adults? Their parents obviously did not raise them properly.

[@FronteirWolf]

​​@@joemahony4198Disabled children will grow up to be disabled adults if they make it to adulthood. They can't change being disabled. You can raise them right though, and they can be an asset to society.

[@lucyross5478]

​@@nikitaw1982That's not what that means. In a rural settings where people are largely farmers and ranchers, children provide labor. Now that most people do not live on farms, children create labor rather than provide it.

[@1wun1]

​@@lucyross5478farmers aren't having more babies than anyone else, children have always been an extra chore compared to their absence. It's the culture that has changed.

[@DeepVerma728]

Whether you're married with children or single and lonely life is hard regardless.

[@raggedflaggon9566]

I would've gotten married and had children at 22, but I couldn't even pay for rent by myself.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

People are not having children because they are rationally considering whether or not they have the resources to provide for them. And many of them have concluded that they cannot. That it is global should really clue you in to how pervasive civilization breaking economic inequality has become. And I'm sorry, but these countries have NOT tried "everything." Necessities like housing, child care, and education have never been more expensive. Wages have barely budged. Bring back the welfare state instead of constantly stripping it for parts.

[@justinpatterson5291]

Some people just don't want kids. Even in ideal conditions.

[@Zikomo7]

Motherhood doesn’t look pleasant. And compared to other unpleasant things like working or filing taxes, it’s 1) never ending. You don’t get a break 2) unnecessary. There’s no punishment for not having kids the way there is for not working or filing taxes. There’s no incentive either unless you desire motherhood. Most of us don’t.

[@Foxie770]

You will pay the ultimate penalty when you reach old age and you die alone. Children are your life’s work, your legacy of love and pain the world. Your partnership with God in Creation.

[@jaughnekow]

​@@Foxie770 why is it always linked with the belief in God?

[@Zikomo7]

@@Foxie770 My life’s work is what I decide it is. And childless women can still have friendship and even romantic relationships

[@gazagxrlx2974]

​@@Foxie770Death is a road we go alone...Just like birth! Also, I wouldn't have kids so they can watch me die 😂 Tf?

[@gazagxrlx2974]

Your comment is perfection! Nothing I woulda add or subtract.

[@ganemrahman3424]

I don't know. I met a lot of people who are alcoholics, drug addicts and mentally ill people from my generation as a millennial. I think it's a good thing we're not having kids, aside from socioeconomic concerns.

[@joyceonthego8317]

A bird waits to lay her eggs until a suitable nest is built. Young people look at the current situation and conclude that there is no place to build a suitable nest to raise any future young. 🙄

[@ssark9187]

Once I wanted children. But I was delaying my marriage because of financial reasons (wanted to buy a house first). I decided to remain single just to save some money. But then many of my friends got married and 5 out of 6 got divorced in the span of two years. Now, I simply don't have the courage to get married anymore. Since then I never went on a date. The risk is just too high. And the funny thing is even my mother agrees with me. 😅

[@thebritish910]

Agreed, it’s good advice. Married and then divorced. Save your time and money. Marriage is too risky, I do not recommend it

[@CaiebesPunk]

Exactly , you are 100% right

[@matthewvandyk7773]

I wouldn't say marriage is risky depending on your context of marriage. I've been married 6 years and with what we've been through we've should have been divorced. The difference is my wife and I believe we are unified as 1 and will sacrifice for the better of the other. Marriage is difficult and hard but worth the hardships. You just need to not go into marriage with the mindset "what am I getting out of this" because marriage isn't about your own happiness; it's about your spouse's happiness. I think that's why most marriages end in divorce; people give up after the honeymoon phase in year 2 or 3.

[@TheJarric]

yes it iss 70% marieges end on divorse besides kid only men risk wealh healt and freedom on them cos its women who start divorse and thus benefits go them too @@matthewvandyk7773

[@jayc342009]

the more wealth you accumulate, the more you have to lose.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Worth repeating! "how does feminism destroy womens' social support network? How did you having rights to equal treatment before law, education, property ownership or voting destroy your opportunity at motherhood? How does being able to make and keep money to one's name not benefit poor women? If you want traditional roles in the sense of living on your husband's property, have no personal income, give up on defending yourself in case of abuse and produce children, nothing prevents you to do so, really"

[@kriskeena9438]

Brilliant. That's exactly right.

[@fernandopimentel5463]

Basically young adults are too broke nowadays. Even in Rich countries it's hard to live in a major city with a house, car and a good amount of disposable income.

[@bournegod_kiy]

It’s not even just the cost of living. Personally, I don’t think women feel the need to have children or a husband. Women don’t feel safe in climate, environment, financially, mentally and emotionally. To many women seen women growing up, see their friends, see how men act when babies come into play and who does most of the work financially, emotionally, physically and everything else. Y’all talking about just the finances. I’m not risking my life for no man that won’t do right by me in any way. Talk to me when we get better men because the vast majority really aren’t worth it. Divorce rates and the drop of birthrates are showing you. It’s not just financial it’s global because women are tired of suffering.

[@heyhey439]

Finally! Someone gets it.

[@Tamar-sz8ox]

I’m married , a wife , a mother & a professional. These are times of uncertainty for the younger generation. The old system is falling and we are in the corridor to the future

[@Ruth-os4mi]

Ask women : Would you rather be a mother? Or a millionaire?

[@teoleno4019]

Millionaire cuz motherhood is ghetto.

[@shelbysycamore637]

Millionaire!

[@JenniferRusso5]

Millionaire

[@flickgeek830]

Theres always answers to "Because I don't want kids" or "Because I'm selfish" but never answers to "We're living hand to mouth" or "Can't afford to leave my job".

[@Bleifuss88]

Kids on a poor farm for centuries: An investment that starts to pay off as soon as halfway grown up, good retirement plan Kids in a modern urban society: A liability that costs money, time and nerves

[@Somerandomguy524]

You are kind of overlooking the fact that people were lucky if they made it past 40, and there was no such thing as retirement centuries ago, you worked until fall dead, unless you fancy yourself a noble or some such, and even then you would probably end up stabbed by a family member. These paralels people like to make are just nonsense they repeat without ever touching a history book.

[@Bleifuss88]

@@Somerandomguy524 Not really. If it made it past your fifth birthday, chance was very high that you lived 55-70 even back then. The only thing pushing life expectancy down back then was cold mortality. There were 90 olds even 10000 years ago.

[@Somerandomguy524]

@@Bleifuss88 I disagree with this, not sure where you are getting this from, but as far as I have read and seen 50 was around the oldest you get, there are some outliers, and those better off had a disproportionate chance to get to old age. But we are talking about less than 1% of the overall world population. If whay you said was true population would have exploded way before it actually did, for most of humanitys history, population growth has been marginal or stagnant, up until the industria revolution.

[@silverdale3207]

Every time I turn on the TV I'm told we're all doomed, the world is on fire and we're all going to drown by rising sea levels , and the cost of living crisis is getting worse , why would any level headed person want to bring a child into that world

[@Foxie770]

Stop turning on the TV. Suddenly, you’ll discover that it’s all fantasy.

[@silverdale3207]

@@Foxie770 Yes , my point exactly, rarely turn TV on now.

[@qchtohere8636]

Child: "Hey Mom, why did grandpa died of a heatstroke over last week heatwave." Mom: "Because of fake news, my dear." (Keep the TV off though, thanks for saving the environment that CO2 at least.)

[@indranilbanik3424]

​@@silverdale3207I guess the climate change and cost of living crisis are only on TV. What a relief that I can just turn off the TV any time I want and not have to deal with it. Ironically, I do not watch TV very much at all, but some things are a bit hard to ignore.

[@nskkkk4422]

In today’s society, people are stressed everywhere and everyday, stress about money, about jobs, about living, about housing. I mean stress means unhappiness, unhappy people will also stop having the desire to reproduce. Why suffer to bring another suffering into the world?

[@ivnnamrlvn1143]

I work 12h shifts 20 days per month all hollidays and weekends, if id have a child I can not leave it alone up till age of 14, schools and daycare are starting at 7am and close at 17 at best, how am I suppesed to have children really ?

[@maximumtrollmagic]

Government: We are going to make everything expensive Also government: Strange, why is no one having kids?

[@arunshankars8398]

Life is nothing but a disturbance to the peaceful calmness of non-existence.

[@lanternlant1280]

See when you there fire the stars are acting up like the straw in your pocket?!?! You walk down the hall and a bear eye goes up to the door and see the handle spin uncontrollably!!!.. buzz lights are more like the type of frown that you are seeing with the crying message lights!!.. the space invaders!!!.. are saying the dimmer over there you are shining the fly nights!!!.. windows and sand cassy are telling me otherwise

[@trfgshdtg4577]

I can't think of anything worse for a woman than getting married and having children.

[@nationalskyline]

"What, you don't love the idea of a husband and children burdening you with more work? Madness!"

[@b-41subject57]

I do well for myself. I worked really hard and put up with alot of BS to be where im at now. Despite my life being comfortable, i would never bring an innocent child into this asylum. Our world is full of so many evil, disgusting, volatile, and corrupt people. Its a joke. I take pride in knowing my unborn child will not have to feel any emotional, physical, or mental pain caused by other irresponsible, immature, and volatile people. No thanks!

[@gvis8217]

You nailed it. I'm glad I will never contribute to this failure known as humanity.

[@JenniferRusso5]

Same. I'm not cruel enough to reproduce.

[@b-41subject57]

@@JenniferRusso5 you are giving your unborn child true peace. We all have our internal and external struggles. I wouldn't feel right bringing an innocent life into this mess, knowing the many trials and hardships they will need to go through as they age.

[@skylinefever]

I was dragged into this world without my permission and refuse to do that to someone else.

[@antinatalistwitch111]

Antinatalism for the WIN. We truly ❤ our nonexistent children

[@heyhey439]

It's not the joy, fun, or pleasures that make or break people's decision to have kids or not. That's a very dishonest way to frame the issue. Ask anyone why they don't have kids and money is the number one factor.

[@nationalskyline]

Yep. It's easier to blame it on the moral weakness of the poor than address the real origin of declining birth rates.

[@hilarygibson3150]

Ive never liked children, its that simple. I didnt even like children when i was a child

[@TerrifyingWorld]

What a tone-deaf and out of touch interview. Housing and cost of living is a problem for everyone, everywhere. Life is crushing and brutal for most people and it doesn't make sense to have children.

[@elkrazi]

For me personally, the cost-benefit analysis of having children is massively skewed towards the cost side. I don't have children, but I do have friends who have them and I don't really see any benefits they're enjoying in having children. They have less time, less resources, more worries. And then in the long term, your kids will leave anyway and hardly communicate with you. Worst case, your kids would even hate you and blame you for everything that's wrong with their lives. I think the case for having children in the past was that the children were the parent's social security upon reaching retirement. But nowadays, that's not true anymore. We have super or pension or assets stored in order to ensure, more or less, a comfortable retirement.

[@akp167]

We absolutely do not have a secure retirement

[@skylinefever]

Nobody can count on social security, but the economic system means nobody can count on saving and building investments, either. The collapse is unavoidable. I think about how Japan had their bubble burst in the 1990s, and no recovery. The USA had a huge one burst in 2008, and no real recovery.

[@adamrocks19]

The fact that people would have children for their own future security is inherently selfish.

[@akp167]

@@adamrocks19 human beings are inherently selfish. Glad you realized this basic fact about yourself

[@skylinefever]

@@akp167 This point might be made whenever someone says "Not having children is automatically selfish, and you are a bad selfish person for it."

[@rwellian94]

Provide free childcare (during work hours and a babysitting program for a few hours once a week). You’ll see an instant increase in birth rates.

[@AnthonyTolhurst-dw1nc]

Automation doing all the work tomorrow. What do we want children for? There’s a real war between the sexes out there, who are going to be parents anyway? Seems to me, we have backed ourselves into a dark corner.

[@teoleno4019]

That is what I don't understand. It is impossible to find a good job now, it will be impossible find it in the future when most of those jobs dissappear even more. Unless you are born into rich family, it seems insane to be just producing future slaves for corporations.

[@skylinefever]

Have children, the corporatocracy needs more discount labor and consumers. Having a shortage of humans might mean that the bigshots can't buy a new yacht, as they give everyone a pay raise.

[@daphnewinters8541]

1. Honestly it's better for the environment when less people are being born, and 2. Women take on the majority of the responsibilities of parenting, even when married, it's not worth it. The happiest people I've met are women free of the burden of children. Never feel responsible for your societies deficits, it'll always adapt.

[@colbalt95]

That group has also sadistically been the main ones on antidepressants

[@Bootyeater999]

Also the same group that reports their the unhappiness and complaining about finding men on their levels. 😂

[@daphnewinters8541]

@@colbalt95 is there data for that?

[@daphnewinters8541]

@@Bootyeater999 "finding a man on their level" what's bad about that?

[@Bootyeater999]

@@daphnewinters8541 nothing wrong with just understand women shoot for moon when it comes to their mates. Meaning most of the time you’re gonna have to compete for him and most of you don’t want to. Remember aot beautiful women, not a lot of successful guys. Picking is usually slim for you guys🤷‍♂️.

[@JessieCori]

Affluent? Very few people are affluent.

[@ericmaceachern986]

no housing ➡ no grandkids

[@jkbrown5496]

The modernity impact is covered very well in Chapter 8 of 'The Invention of the Modern World' by Alan Macfarlane. "A low-pressure demography means that a society avoids the situation where extra resources are automatically absorbed by population expansion. As Malthus argued, the only force strong enough to stand against the biological desire to mate and have children, was the even stronger social desire to live comfortably and avoid poverty. " Throw in, in the West, due to the actions of journalists and politicians, to create laws so that to have children is for the parent to lose most of their civil rights. The social workers and other busy bodies enter homes at will, take children on whim and have no accountability for wrongful acts. You can be free or you can provide the state with future workers.

[@suezcontours6653]

ABORT BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@tc-tm1my]

I love how condescending they're being completely unaware.

[@kaylenehousego8929]

Our current " situation" has been orchestrated over time.........including our collective suicidal ideation . "

[@suezcontours6653]

ABORT BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@xrfa7422]

It is propagandized by the mass media since the late 1960's.

[@edwhatshisname3562]

Housing is unaffordable for most people trying to break out and become independent from their parents or whatever for the first time, that's not good, that means it's harder to find a place to make a nest, I believe it's also bad for maturity, as I think most young adults see it as a major right of passage into adulthood. There are also a number of other problems, things are more expensive, especially children, then there is a predatory family court system that routinely goes after males, for the most part, that's on top of a culture that is very good at stifling the advancement of maturity as a whole. That's where the birth rate has gone, it's just not a very good idea to move out of your parent's house, or get married, or have kids, it doesn't make good financial sense.

[@jamesmccracken2542]

Find a way for all these men in the comments to birth and carry children. Then we shall see how many children they would want to have.

[@machupikachu1085]

This has probably been stated already, but technology plays a huge role in fewer children. In less industrialized cultures, more children are conceived to help out with labor tasks. Even 60 or so years ago in rural North America, it was common for farmers to have 6-10 children spaced out every few years in order to help out in the fields. Children were cheaper than machines. Now that machines are cheaper than children, people have less.

[@skylinefever]

The consequences of the industrial revolution.

[@eagle_klaw_]

​@@skylinefeveryes, because it's such a terrible thing to not produce children solely for the purpose of cheep labor /s. if you think fewer parents having child slaves is a bad thing I hope to God you're never able to conceive

[@redredred8408]

@@eagle_klaw_ok booooomah.. Ok boooooomah.. You're a booooomer..

[@machupikachu1085]

@@eagle_klaw_ feel better? Point out exactly where in my post I mentioned slavery at all. We'll wait.

[@tikunolam7]

"spending more time with strangers than those you are related to" - yes Well said

[@NotShowingOff]

Population gains aren’t really that useful. You still need infrastructure. Her idea of comfort is interesting. There are only so many jobs that are like here that only require reading and writing. Most jobs require labor. Nobody is signing up for those

[@ponzitizen]

Just need to look at stupendous house prices for the cause...

[@SpiKSpaN-ei6zq]

And everything else $$$

[@ganemrahman3424]

I can only speak for the millennial generation, but we saw 9/11 happen in real time, live on television. We were only in elementary, middle, and high school and witnessed a terrorist attack take the lives of thousands of innocent people in the span of a couple of hours. That kind of event has left a collective psychological scar that makes a lot of people cynical towards bringing new human life into this world.

[@rathelmmc3194]

Why? The generation that went to WW2 returned home and then created the baby boom.

[@ganemrahman3424]

@@rathelmmc3194 They won that war and could afford to have kids

[@rathelmmc3194]

@@ganemrahman3424 Dude's talking about psychological scars though. I don't know if there's been a more scarred generation than the people who went to WW2. Maybe people who survived the black plague.

[@ganemrahman3424]

@@rathelmmc3194 Most of the heavy fighting was done by Russians. USA mostly provided material support and financial aid. What made us victorious was the Marshall Plan to rebuild Germany, Japan, Italy and the Allied part of Europe leading to American socioeconomic dominance. This lead up to the Baby Boom.

[@rathelmmc3194]

@@ganemrahman3424 My point was that the men who fought in WW2 and saw those horrors still came home and had families.

[@jgcelliott1]

This whole conversation ignores the effects of mechanization and automation. The desperation to preserve what is acknowledged as a pyramid scheme is truly pathetic. .

[@Scylithen]

As someone who enjoys sitting on the sidelines for sometime, reality is the best kind of entertainment now as all of the fiction writing is actually making it into the real world. I'll have kids when I'm ready and with who I see as not a risk to me and my future. I'm not here with popcorn thou, beef jerky and water.

[@Stupidityindex]

All I hear now is as if we had a future: Guy McPherson has humans extinct by 2026. There is a tank at Fukushima & 350 nuclear reaction motors on the planet. Peak oil discoveries was known in 1956. How many people are aware of how doomed we are, who would have children?

[@Phil-yn1er]

Don't leave it to late

[@jamesrodgers3132]

Have kids when you're ready? How do you know? Millions have thought the same and found that it was too late. The great majority of childlessness is involuntary.

[@Scylithen]

@@jamesrodgers3132 already have my swimmers stored back in my 20's and won't be rushing into a deal with the devil knowing it's not in my best interest to sign on the bottom line.

[@byza101]

Don’t leave it too late, the older you get the greater the chance of deformities.

[@pm6613]

Stop manipulating population trends. No smart parent wants to bring children into this horrible world. Just let the rest of live and enjoy what's left. Parenthood and and reproducing is not an obligation.

[@knightheaven8992]

The belief that the world is horrible with nothing bright worth to live for, is also a manipulation in itself. Nihilism as taken root in our culture, and for that we are going to end

[@dangitjacques5133]

This still doesn’t make me want to have kids. I’ve never had that desire

[@FluxNomad678]

Sorry I have to get ready to pay for my useless college degree. Nevermind the cost of living especially housing and healthcare. What if the kid has chronic health problems?

[@evilds3261]

It's quite simple: What's in it for me? I mean, one-sided relationships or obligations are never worthwhile. If I do not get what I want from a relationship or deal, then I stop investing in the relationship and there is no deal. I mean, you should only support that which is mutually beneficial rather than giving into platitudinous pressures. If the world can manage without me, then it can manage if I do not give birth to children. I honestly see no reason to have kids. If you do a cost-benefit analysis, kids come with significantly more costs than benefits. I even questioned why my parents gave birth to me. They genuinely love me and want me - but if they did not, I would've performed a belated abortion on myself.