Did Earliest Jewish-Christianity Influence Islam?

In this short review of my book, The Jesus Dynasty, KZbin host Paul Williams of ‪@BloggingTheology‬ , highlights my assertion that Mohammed and early Islam was influenced by a form of Jewish-Christianity associated with the historical Jesus, his brother James, and the earliest Jewish followers of Jesus. You can hear watch the original video here:
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[@gr4707]

The historical contention between the two early christian factions are noted in the Quran. “O you who believe, be supporters of (the religion of) Allah, just as ‘Īsā, son of Maryam, said to the Disciples, “Who are my supporters towards Allah?” The Disciples said, “We are the supporters of (the religion of) Allah.” So a group from the children of Isrā’īl believed, and another group disbelieved. Then We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became victors.” 61:14 The support came to the Jewish Christians faction through Islam over their enemy - the pauline/hellenistic christians. James the righteous called Paul his enemy.

[@willempasterkamp862]

The Victors are the Nicolaitans = Claudians ( Nike = victory, lads = armed men ). Drusus germanicus = Zacherias barachai = Imran /the prosperous/ the blessed or Rich = Paul/ saul / saleh = James the Just/ jacov the tsaddik. Paul and James being enemies is odd , however Paul at some measure surely hated himself and even cried out ' miserable human being that I am' considering himself.

[@Irredescnt25]

I literally was thinking about the convergence of this road you speak of and BLAM here you are. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Twas lovely albeit I'm left wanting more.

[@junepatterson7928]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Love your exit.

[@justpenny]

Thank you Paul I enjoyed watching your vid

[@Robert_L_Peters]

I thought that was a very interesting part of Dr. Tabor's book also. Just purchased Butz's book so we'll see how that is

[@dark_attack7896]

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ From..Indonesia. Thankyou For Your Education.

[@Elizabeth-Scott]

Love the intro!

[@cletusdalglish-schommer1573]

Ray Kroc did not found McDonald's. He wasn't there when the McDonald's brothers transformed the idea of the restaurant and created the golden arches. He came along after, saw the potential, secured the franchise rights to take this system on the road and was eventually was so successful he was able to return, claim the whole enterprise, and even the name for himself. Ultimately, he even put the original McDonald brothers out of business on the site where everything was founded. Now, if you replace the name Ray ... the Paulist Church has never looked back.

[@DrSales-zl3kq]

Yeah but he was motivated by power and potential riches. Paul was thrown in jail and eventually lost his head. The great mystery of Paul is there was never a good motive for him to do what he did and change from being a persecutor of Christians to a promoter of Christianity.

[@reggievonramstein]

@@DrSales-zl3kq I think that he had a very strong antinomian belief leading to his exclusion from among the disciples of Rabbi Gamliel. His only recourse was to become an informer and he went rogue while on duty.

[@DrSales-zl3kq]

@@reggievonramstein I don't understand your second sentence

[@reggievonramstein]

@@DrSales-zl3kq I meant that his only recourse to being excluded as a disciple (loss of future position as rabbi) was to become an informant to the Jewish religious authorities. He had to work on the Nazarenes and joined them instead.

[@DrSales-zl3kq]

@@reggievonramstein thank you for mentioning that and rabbi gamaliel. You've given me a new area to research.

[@elizabeth_777]

This is such a treat Dr. Tabor. Thank you!

[@code-x9030]

You have anything on Coptic Christianity?

[@Elizabeth-Scott]

I'm wondering if source Q could be a social norm?

[@KendraAndTheLaw]

thanks

[@eswn1816]

"Two Gospels?" Leave it to unbelieving scholars to muck things up. Paul (Saul) persecuted the early believers and was chosen through a powerful encounter with the resurrected Christ, and suffered and died bringing forth a direct revelation from Jesus of "the body of Christ." Thus gentile and Jew were joined as the prophets taught. There is no contradiction between Paul's salvation by faith and James exportation of demonstrating good works. 🙏

[@KamranPasha72]

Paul himself says in Galatians that people are preaching another Gospel that contradicts his -- and they should be ignored.

[@eswn1816]

@@KamranPasha72 Yes, because what they were preaching was not THE Gospel but rather a perversion of it. 🙏

[@gr4707]

Thank God for this beautiful religion of Islam, that restored the Abrahamic faith and theology.

[@Messianic12777]

Whiteout the Ebionites there would be no Muslims

[@brentkrohn3786]

Yes, and fly planes into buildings. Religion is tribal and divisive. And responsible for the suffering of millions of people around the world.

[@giovanni545]

Revelation 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[@rogerlafrance6355]

More study is needed regarding the history of Arabia. While there were many enclaves of everything from Greco-Romans, Egyptians to Hindus some for over a thousand years, most people were tribal nomads who still lived by the same ways that say, the Cainanites did in the past. The Prophet PBOH speaks of not only idolotry but also the barbaric warfare and practices of the people and He wants to stop it. With Rome all but gone, a new power had to arise in the area and as always common religion makes good glue.

[@gekeda]

And why couldn’t this commons religion be Christianity or Judaism as Arabs were becoming before Muhammad told them they were “different”?

[@Nazarene_Judaism]

Anyone seeking nazarene judaism please add us.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

What is Nazarene Judaism?

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

We have a saying in our Islamic household: What's a Jew for Jesus? A Muslim!

[@aaddebruijn3355]

I think Paul is right. There is only one gospel, the gospel of the forgiveness of sins through Christ, who died on the cross. That was not a mistake or accident. Gal.1

[@lcs-salam]

James and the Didache both make statements about Jesus that elevate Him above a mere prophet. Neither does James contradict Paul. Context is important to understand in what ways they were speaking about justification. Paul elsewhere also teaches about faith being evidenced by works and therefore being the kind of faith that justifies.

[@willempasterkamp862]

Paul = the Just.

[@hisyamnik6417]

Yes as Muslims we truly admit that we had connection with the earliest disciples of Jesus Christ, the Christian Jews in spiritual and faith! regarding god and jesus...like in the story of cave dwellers(Ashabul Kahf) only the cave dwellers are gentiles early christians not jews...

[@willempasterkamp862]

claudians

[@ohfft]

Depends what you are calling Christi-anity. The early followers of the Prophet Y'Eusa did not recognise themselves as that name at all. Just as Y'Eusa would not have ever called himself a jew either. These terms have nothing to do with the straight path of truth humanity is being called to live by, they are just man made names of religious organisations, who claim ownership over the truth, but actually have no right doing so!

[@user-wj9hx8ww3z]

I am Christian, but I think Christians and Muslims should be much closer to each other. It is a shame that our common roots have been buried.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Thank you. You're a Christian who really acts like one! 💛

[@user-wj9hx8ww3z]

@gabrielleangelica1977 God bless you friend.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

@@user-wj9hx8ww3z With all the demonic comments on the Internet, your kind words are holy and Godly. Hallelujah!

[@user-wj9hx8ww3z]

@@gabrielleangelica1977 You are very kind. Many blessings and peace to you and your loved ones.🫶

[@tydy5266]

There is no special treatment towards Muslims. We should be close to everyone. Being a Christian isn't about affirming beliefs that are contradictory to our own. Don't say stuff to please people, say the truth @@user-wj9hx8ww3z

[@husseinpoliphilo]

If this is true why are a lot of Christians scholars not Muslim if Islam is accessible to all races but Judaism only accessible to Jews ?

[@Notreallyhereanymore]

Dunno

[@Visibleconfusion97]

Because christianity got in debate of divinity of Jesus and now its much different than what the early followers believed. Todays christians cannot seem to fathom a concept different from trinity when it wasnt even present at the time of jesus. Unitarians are still present today tho and if they will research enough there is no point for them not to become muslim 😅

[@kencreten7308]

A childish religion - cannot handle criticism.

[@notanemoprog]

An almighty deity needing passing travelers for his info

[@notanemoprog]

I mean it's ludicrous really

[@komaichan99]

It’s Christianity

[@kencreten7308]

@@komaichan99 ? What?

[@davekaiser4726]

Jay Smith goes into this in depth that the Muslims got a lot of their material from the Ebonites and Nazarenes, in fact the Muslim faith is a remnant and has a straight-line descent of the Abrahamic sect of the fourth century. He is on KZbin and worth a look.

[@sethsuleiman4419]

(1). Of course, there will be similarities between islam, judaism and christianity, simply because these religions have their roots to the prophet abraham and his religion. (2). The core teaching of prophet abraham is similar to that of moses, jesus and muhammad; ie. there is one god who is absolute, begets nor nor begotten and nothing is like unto Him. The OT named god as yhwy; the NT do not give any name to god; and, allah is the name of god in the quran. (3). The contrast tenet between them is (a) judaism believe only in prophethood of moses (not in jesus and muhammad); (b) christianity believe in both prophethood of moses and jesus (but not muhammad); and, islam believe in all the prophethood of moses, jesus and muhammad.

[@davekaiser4726]

@@sethsuleiman4419 thanks for the comparisons, but I fail to see where you are going with this. What I don't understand is why, since all the monotheistic faiths are from the Prophet Abraham, the Muslims want no part of the other "people of the Book." The Christians (the second revelation of God) stand on the shoulders of the first revelation of God (the Jewish people) and apply the teachings of Moses to their lives, whereas the third revelation of God (the Muslims) do not apply Isa's teachings to their lives -- "To love your enemies and do good to those that hurt you." Why don't peace-loving Muslims stand up against their fellow brother Muslims that are slicing off the heads of the other "people of the Book and tell them this is not the way of the Prophet Abraham and the other prophets and the prophet Isa. If Muslims as one did this, I would be more willing to accept their story that they are the third revelation of God. You shall know the tree by its fruits.

[@sethsuleiman4419]

@@davekaiser4726 You said, muslims kill jews and christians. Quran 5:32 says, “he who slays a soul, unless it be (in punishment) for murder or for spreading mischief on earth, shall be as if he had slain all mankind and he who saves a life shall be as if he had given life to all mankind”. Are those muslims (ie. killers, according to you) contradicting the teaching of islam? BTW. Were those during inquisition and crusaders, apply the teaching of their Book?

[@davekaiser4726]

@@sethsuleiman4419 Seth I like to spar with you, as long as we do not get emotional. The quote of Quran 5:32 is taken out of context of the surrounding paragraphs. Christianity as a whole has not justified the crimes of the past centuries, in fact, has condemned them as non-Christian. In seminary, in church history class we skipped the crusades entirely, because the professor felt the whole era was barbaric and non-Christian. I thought he was wrong in skipping it, because we should study history, so we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. Barbarism in the name of Christianity (that Christianity does not believe in) does not justify barbarism and terrorism in the name of Allah, the compassionate and loving. You have not answered my question: why Islam doesn't rise up in mass against all acts of barbarism and terrorism done in the name of Allah, the merciful? Why does the Wahabism of Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt monetarily support persecution of non-Islamic populations?

[@davekaiser4726]

@@sethsuleiman4419 Seth, I like sparing with you on this subject of great importance to the life of the world. The quote of Sarah 5:32 is taken out of context of the surrounding paragraphs. And what is meant by the words "for spreading mischief on earth"? Sounds like Christians proselytizing Muslims. The evil acts of criminals that are not following the teachings of their leader, do not justify someone else doing evil acts in the name of their leader. You have not answered my question: Why doesn't Islam rise up in mass against all acts of barbarism and terrorism done in the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate? In the peace of God,

[@tbishop4961]

Paul makes a good point at the end regarding the gospel "of" jesus and the gospel "about" jesus. However I don't agree that these are very different or mutually exclusive ideas. Rather, it seems the gospel of jesus has had the gospel *about* jesus layered on top or otherwise integrated by orthoxy Of course this is assuming that the historical jesus ever uttered any of those fabulous Q sayings, many of which (as Jordan Peterson notes) are just "true" regardless of historocity

[@glenncalkins4764]

I'm not sure there even was a Jesus, just an idealized student of John the Baptist ((whose sayings may be Q.) Then Paul came along with his own weird Roman ideas.

[@tbishop4961]

@@glenncalkins4764 doesn't matter

[@lambeefbiryani08]

I said this to christians,, Jesus early followers believed he just human being that god gifted him certain Miracles like other prophets before him.. This Trinity concept exist because some lunatic from jesus (ISA) followers want to assimiliate the jesus monotheist faith to rome pagan faith.. You look at trinity now , the concept of divinity is same like pagan rome divinity..

[@Demosophist]

There are a number of terms and doctrines that have their origins in a much earlier time than the 1st Century... earlier even than the time of Abraham. For instance, the references to the "Standing One" and the "Oblias" and the "Pillar of Righteousness" are all references to what was deemed the "World Mountain" which supported the primal god, Saturn: the "Central Sun" at the celestial north pole. The Egyptians modeled this World Mountain as a pyramid, or an obelisk with a crescent at its summit, and within the crescent was the star of Inanna (Venus). This had nothing to do with the moon. The sky once looked very different from the way it looks now. Heaven was a place in the sky, luminous and shining at night, and more dim by day. These archetypes were carried down through the ages. Islam represents the World Mountain as the Minaret, from whence comes the call to prayer. And the star and crescent are a direct image of the primordial sky. The crescent rotated around the star once a day... from evening (brightest) to morning (dimmest). The "Standing One" is the "Unmoved Mover."

[@AKIB1991LASKAR]

Read the Qur'an professor.... prophet Muhammad PBUH he himself said he is the successor of Isa (Jesus PBUH) in God's mission to this world...he himself said that he is preaching exactly what Jesus PBUH preached because both of them sent by same GOD and the message was exactly same....so early Christians who has seen Jesus PBUH with their own eyes and heard his preachings will surely write something which will be similar to Islam...that exactly proves prophets authenticity and he had some knowledge sent from GOD which was already lost from this World. By 300CE all Unitarian Christians were persecuted or forcefully converted to Pauline Christianity which is essentially a form paganism.

[@AceDeuceTray]

Islam is just christianity and Judaism before they were changed, God refreshed the covenant allahu akbar

[@singerblinger2008]

No, they are not two different religions or discontinuities. Jesus is about the Kingdom. Yes. That is what He saves his followers into. He says He is the only way...to the Kingdom. Christians preach Jesus as the saviour because the entirety of the Kingdome message must necessarily include how you get into the Kingdom. Good job, but a conclusion like yours is misleading.

[@KamranPasha72]

You are following Paul's made up stories about Jesus (peace be upon him).

[@whiteashpiperwhiteashpiper5447]

Yes, the ebonites... Islam lite!

[@willempasterkamp862]

huqoq elephants mosaic

[@evropej]

Revelation chapter 11 is Jesus and John. Jesus was a vessel for the spirit of God which lives in all who keep Gods commandments. Religion has nothing to do with God. Neither does faith, or believing. This is all garbage written by religion. Basically, you have people who act Godly and people who talk godly with godly words they made up. You know the commandments and traditions written by men? That is religion folks, all of them. The beast in chapter 13 is religion with many heads or denominations. Beast 1 with crushed head is ogdoad revived as judaism. Best 2 in chapter 13 is catholocism, like the lamb or Jesus but speaks like a dragon or ruler or pope. Chapter 12 is about Mary and the roman Catholics going after the remnants of those who keep the commandments aka the crusades which wiped off anyone who trusted in God. Judaism job was to kill the bull, the herd, the 12 holy tribes, the genetics of YHWH God or Abraham or Jacob or Israel. The catholics job is to pretend to be Jesus or antiChrist and kill anyone who trusts in the ten commandments. The redeemer of the accursed, to redeem people under a curse, is not the holyspirit but a person which is as if slain in the book of revelation. 7 eyes and 7 horns or spirits of God means he sees things perfectly, the spirit of the truth which will convict the world of their sins. When God said I will judge you on your works, it was talking to humanity as a whole. Take what religion told you, flip it 180 degrees, and that is truth. Religion is the anit-against Christ God Commandments People Truth Light Spirit of God.

[@trudojo]

Been looking for more info on Petra in this period for a while for this exact reason. Seems like a strong common link between the two.

[@hassanmirza2392]

There is no common Link, Quran was revealed and composed in Mecca and Medina entirely.

[@samboy90]

@@hassanmirza2392These clowns are coping hard. 🤣

[@terryfox9344]

I totally agree that the Quran and the early movement that in the 9th Century became known as "Islam" was Jewish-Christian. Unfortunately, later interpolations into the Quran and fictitious sayings known as "Hadiths" and other 9th Century Abbasid writings took Islam down the wrong path. I am aware that modern day reformers are attempting to purge Islam of many of its toxic beliefs, and I support their efforts, but it is difficult to predict their success. I really agree with the importance of living a life in accordance with the will of God.

[@TheMuslimApologist]

Your conspiracy theories about early Islam has no basis in history.

[@atheistapostate7019]

@@TheMuslimApologist back up your statement please.

[@sethsuleiman4419]

@@atheistapostate7019 (1). Of course, there will be similarities between islam, judaism and christianity, simply because these religions have their roots to the prophet abraham and his religion of calling people to the one god. (2). BTW, islam means submission to the one god and one who submit to the one god is a muslim. Thus, abraham, moses, jesus and muhammad are muslim as they submit to the one god and call people to the one god.

[@atheistapostate7019]

@@sethsuleiman4419 I didn’t comment about similarities, I asked the Islamic Apologist to back his statement up. To your comment 1) of course there are similarities between all 3, the Christians branch off of Judaism and Islam centuries later had both Judaic and Christian texts and tradition to take from. A simple and easy answer to why. 2) I am familiar with Islam and know what the word means. I come from a background with Islamic family members and listen to the “debates” between my uncle Basam and my Christian mom. 3) Abraham more than likely never existed at all and many scholars question that, including some Jewish ones. Moses is also under question of existing. 4) I can create a religion and claim it is based on an older one and tweak it as I want to, not that hard, look at all the different faiths around in monotheism

[@sethsuleiman4419]

@@atheistapostate7019 (1). What evidence do you have to conclude that the existence of abraham and moses is questionable? My evidence to the contrary is the quran. (2). Although different faiths claim monotheism, we have to assess their evidence as to which is the word of the god, the creator.

[@anneeq008]

It didn't "influence it" it's one and the same. But without the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon the

[@knowyurrul]

The quran knows how to plagiarise

[@heleniyahabukarsh513]

When I study the Quran I find it contrary to the instructions of the one true God. One who Prophesies for the One true God. Muhammad would have been stoned per the scriptures. Muhammad broke the law of God. And was due a stoning.

[@notanemoprog]

Yes. Mohamed even gets the Trinity wrong. Islam teaches that the Koran is the perfect revelation of Allah but that presents a problem for Muslims when it gets things wrong. One of the more notable errors is found in its explanation of what Christians believe about the Trinity. It makes two clear mistakes, first describing them as worshipping three gods. As we read in the fourth and fifth surahs: .…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. (4:171) They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (5:73) Secondly, the Koran describes Christians as believing in a Trinity made up of the Father, Jesus, and Mary. And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'”…. (5:116) One of earliest Islamic scholars Muqatil ibn Suleyman in his mid-eighth-century earliest complete commentary on the Koran claims that Christians “say that Allah, powerful and exalted, is the third of three - he is a god, [Jesus] is a god, and [Mary] is a god, making Allah weak.” It is not hard to understand how a pagan Arab might make these kinds of mistakes based on second-hand stories, hearsay, and uninformed observations and thus end up with the Koran's erroneous conception of Christian belief. Obviously this one thing is quite enough to prove Koran's non-divine origin - to say that God himself might get so confused as to what Christians believe is ludicrous.

[@hassanmirza2392]

Trinity is a fabrication, and there is NO Trinity in NT.

[@tbishop4961]

Nobody in the 3rd,4th,5th century desert had newspapers or internet. They learned what they could from passing travelers. Considering the plethora of non canonical "heretical" Christian documents circulating at the time, it's absurd to think there weren't "Christian" harboring unorthodox ideas. Obviously there w were and it should come as no shock there were people worshipping the father, his wife Mary, and their son Jesus

[@notanemoprog]

@@hassanmirza2392 That is irrelevant to my point. The point is that Koran - the supposed word of Allah - gets things about what Christians believed then FACTUALLY WRONG. Koran is therefore of non-divine origin.

[@notanemoprog]

@@tbishop4961 "should come as no shock there were people worshipping the father, his wife Mary, and their son Jesus" Irrelevant. The point is that Koran, the supposed word of Allah, gets things about what Christians believe (it does not say sect or whatever, but Christians AS SUCH supposedly commanded by Jesus) FACTUALLY WRONG. Koran is therefore of non-divine origin.

[@hassanmirza2392]

@@notanemoprog No, Quran rejects Trinity and other fabrications. Can a human be your Lord?

[@ta3p-theannex3project84]

All goes back to the Jewish faith and the Torah. So back to basic belief, if you are a believer.