Discussing A Song of Ice and Fire Theories (Stream #2)

[@Glidus]

theories start at 11:00 tyty 4 watch, we'll do more soon!

[@randam7592]

Alt shift x wrote pink later

[@olidavies3892]

in deep geek has a great ashara and howland explanation video

[@LamiNalchor]

I hadn't seen that there is another one.

[@JamesHightower18]

Sheerien is the night king stop being dumb 🙄🙄🙄🙄😊

[@evanwilliams3821]

Euron, daario, benjen, daemon, the dusky woman, coldhands, the night’s king, jaqen, and syrio, walk into a bar He orders a drink

[@sirocco2810]

Forgot Mel and possibly Nymeria.

[@chumblewumble2422]

You forgot the drogo horse

[@ge3344]

and howland reed

[@evanwilliams3821]

@@ge3344 what's the theory that links howland to this

[@ge3344]

@@evanwilliams3821 idk; howland is everyone tho

[@Yenneffer]

Turns out in A Song of Ice and Fire, nobody ever actually dies. They just turn into other characters. At least so it would seem from these theories.

[@sirocco2810]

Either that or they were replaced by a faceless man in the nick of time

[@simcoe4045]

No one’s ever really gone.

[@tammichenard1024]

They're all horses

[@Waakala]

@@tammichenard1024 except Ned, who is a pigeon

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@Waakala no, he warged into Cat’s horse just like Drogo warged into Dani’s.

[@Yenneffer]

The lemon tree was a faceless man.

[@brickowls7886]

The lemon tree was ahorse

[@Marcellodelivera]

I still think about this comment

[@TaliVarda100706]

Ur mum a faceless man.

[@corbettblackman6322]

@@brickowls7886 but ahorse is clearly a faceless man.

[@Kekspere]

He skinned a lemon that wanted to die to gain its essence LT = FM confirmed

[@MarianFK]

I personally hate the Tyrion Targaryen theory too because of what it would mean to Tywin; he despises Tyrion for being a dwarf and "killing" his wife, nothing of which Tyrion is guilty of, but he can't do anything about it because he's is his son. Had Tywin had any suspicion that Aerys raped Joanna and thus the dwarf might not be his child, he would have accepted that idea gladly and thrown Tyrion from the highest tower of Casterly Rock. But no; Tyrion is his son and Tywin has to live with it, while seeing him be more capable at politics and power play than any of his other two children will ever be.

[@loganeaton9568]

I actually love the idea that Cersei and Jaime are Targaryens, and Tyrion is the only trueborn son of Tywin.

[@spoons250]

@@loganeaton9568 J/C were born before Tywin went to court. Tyrion was conceived after the MK traveled to CR to tell Tywin to bring Jamie to court.

[@loganeaton9568]

@@spoons250 Oh I'm not arguing for it, I believe many theories in this community are caused by a serious lack of winds resulting in insanity. I just think it would be amazingly ironic if the only kid Tywin hated was his only actual child. Then again, at this point basically everyone is a secret Targaryen, Tywin is a secret Targaryen confirmed?

[@emilybarclay8831]

This is the issue with writing a story with hidden identities and fakeout deaths and then leaving the fandom to stew for over a decade. Suddenly everyone is everyone and no one is dead because they’re someone else

[@masonrockwood7732]

Except Quentin. Martin made sure he's very, very dead.

[@emilybarclay8831]

@@masonrockwood7732 not according to some people. There are people who genuinely think he’s alive lol

[@anyoneattheendoftime4932]

@@masonrockwood7732"Oh."

[@weaselbleu]

The real Azor Ahai is the friends we made along the way.

[@alexanders8638]

not even a technically wrong statement, so many characters fit being azor ahai

[@realdaggerman105]

People don’t like R+L=J not because it’s bad, but because we have had over 20 years to riddle it out and since then even though it was a mindfuck at the time, it feels more obvious now, which it isn’t.

[@kiilash1575]

And it became show-canon aswell after a lot of people had it figured out already. That makes it seem way more obvious than it was years ago.

[@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL]

@@kiilash1575 and the show did a big deal reveal three times

[@kiilash1575]

@@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL yea, it was important to do it multiple times so D&D understood what happened.

[@Borgcow]

R+L=J occurred to me before I finished my first reading of GoT though, as it did to many. No, it’s inarguably too simple, if we take it at face value it’s just “no, I AM your father…also your dead aunt is your mom.” Why not just reveal he was dead or dreaming or Tyler Durden THE WHOLE TIME?!? Bc that would be just as played-out and lame. However Glidus makes a great point, to subvert tropes you have to get into them, at least part way, so the non-obvious but trope-breaking twist is probably that yes, Vader is his father, but it doesn’t help and he dies anyway. However you’re right though, in that if we wait 20 more years for it any answer is going to be disappointing…

[@butwhyalyssa]

Lionstooth is Joffrey's original sword. Heart eater is the sword he gets before the Battle of the Blackwater (the one he makes Sansa kiss in the show) and then Widow's Wail is the Valyrian sword

[@tarvoc746]

Heart Eater, really? Wow, that guy was just comically evil, wasn't he?

[@butwhyalyssa]

@@tarvoc746 yeah he really was 😂😂😂

[@dupejesu7208]

As the queen of thorns eloquently said Joffrey was a shit 😂😂😂

[@butwhyalyssa]

@@dupejesu7208 hahaha she used a rather different word 😂😂😂😂

[@bloodygoat6941]

There is no cure for being a c*nt

[@carlrood4457]

The thing about averting expectations is you still need to seed a logical plot. The Red Wedding averted expectations, but followed from things that happened prior and made logical sense. Jon can still be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but not be the "one true king" because the entire point of the series is that that's a load of horse s#!t. It's about armies, politics, belief, and ambition. For example, it's possible that even if they did everything right, Jon could still be declared illegitimate if whatever people in power at the end decide he is. That's how Richard III became king and Edward V had a much clearer parent marriage than Jon does.

[@nikmede]

What people never mentions when talking about Oberyn poisoning Tywin is that when Pycelle is testifying in Tyrion's trial he makes a list of different poisons and they are all only mentioned by name except for one whose symptoms are very similar to the constipation Tywin had

[@CondemnedGuy]

My favorite theory is that all prophecy is false, but a few of the prophecies end up coming true because people are so desperate to believe in them. Cersei is 100 % gonna die by the hand of the "valonqar", but only because she is so madly trying to prevent it.

[@tsarcastic3722]

To add to Varys being a Targaryen/Blackfire: It would explain why, when he was gelded, the sorceror chose Varys in particular. As Melisandra says, there's power in the blood of kings. Which includes bastards (also per Melisandra)

[@TM-wx2pl]

The fact that the right bottom corner stays almost empty in these streams says a lot about the great writing of the almighty grrm

[@glanni]

As for the thing with Jon's mother.. When 2D were asking to do the show, GRRM asked them about the identity of Jon's mom and they got it right. I don't believe they would change that specific thing that got them the job in the first place. I mean, who knows with those guys lmao, but no, the show confirmed that one.

[@El_Descarriado]

Well, they're epic frauds and conmen. Maybe they came up with something nuts, and Germ just liked their creativity?

[@glanni]

@@El_Descarriado Eh, purely _technically_ it's possible, I guess. But don't you think he'd prefer someone understanding the clues he laid down instead of someone being wacky? GRRM is taking the mystery aspects and the groundwork he lays very seriously. I don't even think he wanted them to go nuts at all, he said he wanted a faithful adaptation, and whenever they wanted to do something that went against the spirit of his story he was (rightfully) annoyed. I'm not even saying they truly had to understand the story themselves to get the answer right. They might have read it online. Tbh the main reason I see why some people are rejecting R+L=J at this point is because we don't want to know the answer, but not know what will be done with it. I get that it's more intriguing to keep puzzling, especially because everything that came after that reveal was utterly pointless. It's a brilliant answer to the mystery, and I'd like anyone to try sell me on an answer that's better, in characterisation and significance. I'm sorry that I'm at this moment not about to explain all the reasons why I like that answer so much, but it's late and I can't write an even longer comment rn lol.

[@NineBreakerUIXB]

@@glanni I think people are rejecting R+L=J simply because of how badly executed it was in the show. It seems illogical to me since we know the reason the show went to hell was nothing to do with the actual author of the series but people are fickle like that.

[@pyramidion5911]

GRRM said he picked them because of their answer, no one said they got it right.

[@inespicke]

you can put together the theories that Varys is a woman, young Griff's mother and a blackfyre and so Young Griff would also be a blackfyre to create the ultimate theory

[@renaigh]

Theon being called a kinslayer is in reference to his relationship with Bran & Rickon, remember everyone else believes that Theon did kill Bran & Rickon.

[@carlrood4457]

The quote is: "Trees did not grow on Braavos, save in the courts and gardens of the mighty." So clearly, if they were staying with the Sea Lord, he could have had a lemon tree

[@matt_9112]

I don't even know if them staying in Dorne would even make that much of a difference. The marriage pact is a thing (real or forged doesn't matter) anyways and Braavos might just've been a lie told to Dany to protect Dorne in case of any later leaks. Most theories simply don't compute on the course for the end of their stay there. What happened that lead to them being kicked out? Doran was in power all the way, we literally know nothing about any other Dornish house that'd be in question, a change in Sealord is, so far, the best we got.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@matt_9112 Would them getting kicked out also happen to coincide with the Greyjoy Rebellion - chronologically speaking? If so, gives something of a reason for Doran to suddenly feel unsure about doing any treasonous shit.

[@simcoe4045]

There is a huge difference between trees growing somewhere and lemon trees growing somewhere.

[@coolsenjoyer]

@@simcoe4045 Yeah but the point is that the text doesn't explicitly exclude lemon trees from Braavos like was claimed in the video

[@astrorockwitch]

Daenerys remembers green grass fields too And a house with a red door NOT a palace lol Lemon trees grow in hot climates, the only way to have that in Braavos is with greenhouse and Dany doesn't mention that, just a tree outside her window!

[@carlrood4457]

People seem to ignore that Daenerys' birth was witnessed, i.e. the whole Stormborn thing. They had servants when they first escaped to Essos. Then there's the sheer logistics of how Ned would have gotten her to Dragonstone in the first place without being noticed. He already made one side trip to Starfall. Remember, when the war ended, he still managed to get to Winterfell BEFORE Cat and baby Robb.

[@thedanielmarsh]

Robb was already born. Robb is older than daenerys by 1 year

[@pyramidion5911]

If only they had boats

[@GurschlempfMurrtelburfge]

The sheer amount of glimboid content recently has been phenomenal. Keep it up glodbous

[@renaigh]

maybe dead Jon will have a chapter at the Feast of the Dead where he'll reunite briefly with Robb & Ned but also notice the suspicious absence of Bran, Rickon & Arya.

[@asco4310]

“I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wilding princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek.” - The Pink Letter “Lord Ramsay will not be far behind. He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek.” - First Theon sample chapter from TWOW.

[@carlrood4457]

The biggest hint about Howlan & Ashara is that Meera was introduced as the heir, not Jojen. Female inheritance is mainly a Dornish thing.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

The rabbit hole on that one even goes a bit deeper, and a bit more convoluted, because there's a lot of uncertainty sown into the lore as to whether or not the Daynes follow that custom - as other Stony Dornishmen families don't, but one that's not far from Starfall apparently does which is interesting. It kinda makes sense to me that they would follow it, as the Sword of the Morning title seems like a bigger honorific for any second-born dude who feels the need to overcompensate - they would strive for that more than pull gender-norms if they want power. Almost like a familial pressure-valve or something. That's just conjecture though. My favorite hint is the bit in 'Dance' (or is it Feast?) where Barristan is talking about fire and mud regarding Ashara and Dany, whom he compares based on their physical similarities. it's also the same chapter where we learn that despite Barry's battlefield talents he's kinda inept at reading people and sussing out the whole political situation in Mereen - I.e - that despite Barry's affection for Ashara there's a good chance he didn't have a good grasp on what was really going on with her or what she was really like as a person, drenching the whole thing in irony if Ashara were to choose a 'mudman' instead of someone more 'firey'.

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

This is such a cool stream idea, love it. Also love the Oberyn poisoning Tywin theory a whole lot for the reasons stated; also love that its a theory that never needs confirming. It stands on its own two feet without effort. But everything about Tywins death - going out on the shitter, his stinky grinning corpse etc - also serves as a metaphor with or without the theory. Also, there are people who don't think Alleras is Sarella? Its...literally the same name, backwards. I don't even - What?

[@anagramconfirmed1717]

i DoNt eVeN🥴

[@made-line7627]

Erm, OOTGH brings up some yummy ideas about Sarella possibly being Shae, and as much as I'd like it to be true, I don't think it is. Yeah, Sarellaras is it. It just is.

[@Erica-ye7kp]

@@made-line7627 that channel is seriously delusional and the fandom agrees about that. They're kooks.

[@chyawanprash]

@@Erica-ye7kp I mostly agree, but there are very few things that they say that might actually be true, like BR≠3EC But I disagree with them on most other things

[@fox2569]

There’s a slim chance Alleras being Sarella backwards is a red herring.

[@kekero540]

A+J=J+C is my favorite secret targ theory. Because it’s just so thematically perfect. Not just that it spites Tywin but also the fact that Cersei has only ever been attracted to two men Rhaegar and Jaime

[@SennaHawx]

It would also make Tyrion even more Tywin's true and only heir

[@miketrujillo3677]

I thought she loved Robert for a short time, could be misremembering

[@ameliabrittain3689]

@@miketrujillo3677I think that’s just in the show. In the books she always hated Robert for killing Rhaegar and being a drunken, lusty sot of a man.

[@kyanchambers260]

Checked my phone in the movie theater during the previews and saw glimbus was live and it pained me to know I was watching fucking dear Evan Hansen instead of my dragon boy

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

The whole Howland and Ashara thing is more substantial as an explanation for what happened at the ToJ than some wacky alternate identity stuff incorporating the Dawn sword or whatever rabbit hole. H + A doesn't preclude that Ashara didn't commit suicide, and in fact goes just as well towards explaining her motivations for doing so as a trist with a Stark would - I like the idea that Ned "would have been dead if not for Howland" because Howland was in the position of knowing info from both the Stark side of things and what was going on at the ToJ through Arthur Dayne's sister. A little bit of that "human heart in conflict with itself" as Howland was in the position of choosing his close friend and liege lord's safety over the confidence of his baby-momma - perhaps Howland thought he could save both parties from fighting, but failed (perhaps Ned orchestrated something of an ambush instead, creating the kernel of truth for why the show's version cared about some 'dishonorable' part of the situation, maybe Howland's 'stab in the back' of Arthur Dayne wont be quite so literal as on the show) and the result was the death of the participants, including the brother of said baby-momma - leading to her suicide after the birth of Meera (who we know was born during that timeframe - the only girl whom I can recollect being born during that timeframe, in keeping with the "Ashara had a stillborn daughter" info from the books). This also explains why despite Howland being a trusted friend and confidant of Ned's, he's not an active participant - seemingly in self-exile in the Neck after having been brave enough to make such an impact as a crannogman leaving the Neck in his youth. He may still have love for Ned, respect for him as his liege-lord, but there's this powerful sense of bitterness, survivor's guilt, and self-disdain that comes from the whole affair - explaining his absence and perhaps even the relative passiveness of the Crannogmen as a whole. He whiles away his time in the Neck, telling his kids over and over again about his lost love - leading to Meera making this assumption that Bran has probably heard the story about Harrenhal Tourney as it's where Rheagar met Lyanna, catalyst for all these massive events in the Stark family just as it'd be where Ashara met Howland, likewise catalyst for all these massive events in the recent history of the Reed family. Meera having been brought up with Howland's "star-crossed lovers" take on the whole affair, having in the years hence fully romanticized and conflated the jist of his relationship with Ashara with that of Lyanna and Rhaegar despite the truth of the matter likely making the reality for both groups much different. THIS is why H + A is a thing worth considering, it contains no Earth-shattering revelations but it helps competently and sufficiently fill a LOT of the blanks we have about the characters around that whole thing and their motivations and as for Howland, why his presence in the story is such as it is during the course of the books. There's also a decent chunk of textual stuff which either supports it or at the very least doesn't preclude it but this is long enough already and you're probs not gonna see this anyway, but I have to fly the colors for my bit of chosen foil. Much love to you Glimbo for giving it the time of day, but I think you missed the point of what people are barking at when they advocate the theory.

[@hadriancaesar2686]

I also like A+J = J+C because it makes Jamie killing Aerys even more impactful If the theory's correct he not only committed regicide but kin slaying

[@emilybarclay8831]

It also makes the ‘Tyrion is Tywin’s son not you’ line even better and it means that Robert, the man who’s entire purpose in life was to kill as many targs as he could, married a Targ and raised Targ bastards as his heirs. Also, Cersei obsessed over the idea of marrying and having kids with the perfect Targaryen prince, and she ended up having Targ bastards in the end. I don’t completely buy the theory because of the timeline, but it’s so much more narratively coherent than Tyrion T

[@pyramidion5911]

@@emilybarclay8831 the timeline makes pefect sense.

[@Gothicah]

I just realized I rarely if ever hear any Rickon theories and to be fair I did just look up to see where he was in dance of dragons so I guess he was that forgettable. Damn.

[@alanpennie8013]

I have a theory that he goes full werewolf, which is why he won't ever challenge Sanaa's rule, but becomes a rather unreliable protector figure. Maybe he'll.eventually replace Coldhands.

[@LordMangudai]

His direwolf is literally called Shaggydog, I think the idea of him ever being relevant to anything died in the first chapter of A Game of Thrones

[@Gothicah]

@@LordMangudai damn dude😭

[@Gothicah]

@@alanpennie8013 I actually like that one a lot

[@anarmy0fbees569]

Thank you daddy

[@glanni]

The reason why I don't like BR+SS=Melisandre is that I think it's much more interesting to have more than 1 player on the board. Even if their interests align at times, I think Melisandre having her own agency (in terms of other characters) and religious motivation is just more interesting, and for that I also think it's unlikely. Honestly, I think if anything Melisandre would probably be suspicious of BR tbh.

[@jonijoestar8858]

Didn't she actually have a vision of BR and the Great Other when she was at the Wall?

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

@@jonijoestar8858 Wooden face surround by a thousand eyes, and a boy with a wolf's face. Bloodraven and Bran - and she believes them to be enemies.

[@glanni]

@@jonijoestar8858 I think so, but I wasn't sure anymore, so I didn't write it in my comment.

[@EthalaRide]

Me: Watching this _whole video,_ having never picked up a GRR Martin book.

[@Wafflbaum]

As someone who generally doesn't have any idea about anything below the very surface in asoiaf this was very interesting and informative Thanks for putting this together!

[@MrSpeedysam60]

1:32:27 "And of course the other end of this is that Ilyrio is that father. So do all you can to avoid picturing that." GRRM: "the juices ran down his beard..."

[@notribadsvault]

What’s funny about the supposed “holes” in L+R=J is that Ned does think of Rhaegar in AGOT specifically when visiting Gendry. Also how could Dany be “stormborn” or have Viserys think she’s his sister if she was Rhaegars kid born like a hundred+ miles away? It’s a theory that answers a question most people do not ask, and the lemon tree doesn’t justify it.

[@MrSpeedysam60]

He thinks of Rhaegar when visiting Barra, not Gendry. And in that same chapter... Ned thinks of Lyanna's response to her betrothal to Robert, and how she fears he'll be unfaithful. He sees Barra, thinks of his promise to Lyanna. When Barra's mother tells him the king was good to her, he reflects that the king isn't so good to his own wife. He sees Jon Snow's face in his mind, then wonders whether Rhaegar would have frequented whores. Then next chapter starts by him dreaming of the Tower of Joy. That chapter was where I put it together. I'm pretty sure the only reason people doubt it is because it's "too obvious" and must be a red herring. Except we're presented with actual red herrings in the form of Ashara Dayne and that woman Robert talks about.

[@andrewfoss5311]

42:33 It would certainly take a “Bi-antologist” to make a dual fathered fetus. Aerys and Tywin must have high-fived during impregnation

[@herbertschulz4313]

I will never be abled to get this image out of my head

[@ALKBeauty]

I’ll be watching this video probably like 10 times just to remember it all. I love these!

[@patriciauber9019]

The Shiera Seastar/ Old Nan theory is GRRM‘s punishment for never publishing the She-Wolfs of Winterfell, isn‘t it?

[@stupidminotaur9735]

New theory is she's a Frey. Walder Frey's older sister. We see the dunk and egg books.

[@Gothicah]

One thing I realized was how many plots that D&D smashed together and still ruined the last 2 seasons like they just said fuck it to a lot of stuff that could've worked

[@thebystander1636]

Yeah.. even though they had HBOs consent to greenlight many more seasons..

[@Rannos22]

The last four seasons

[@ayourmum8521]

That’s why the “they ran out of books annoys me so much” they didn’t run out they cut a good 40% of the five books

[@ATurkeySandwichGAME]

A joke theory i read was GRRM is going to use fan theories to finish writing the books

[@mamboonthetube7652]

Recently discovered you and loving the content and I hate to nitpick but in regards to Lemongate the line is not “lemon trees don’t grow in bravos” the line is “trees did not grow in Braavos save for in the walled gardens of the rich and powerful” or something to that effect. My personal interpretation is that she did indeed live at the palace of the sealord and the relatively simple home she remembers would’ve been one of the buildings within the grounds of the palace. There’s even an official map that exists somewhere of Braavos itself which includes the grounds of the sealord’s palace and there are a few buildings you can point to and say “oh it’s probably one of these” That said I do think there are inconsistencies with dany’s childhood memories that can be examined closer, I just think the lemon tree itself is an often mis-quoted and misused piece of evidence

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Theory: Glidus' high-pitch hearing is impaired because he is, in fact, a horse.

[@destructovich]

Dany is the Blackfyre, young Griff is actually the legit Targaryen. Aegon takes the throne, Dany comes in and kills him, Jon then must avenge his big brother against the usurper.

[@made-line7627]

Tyrion Targaryen basically justifies Tywin's hatred and suspicion, and it sucks. He's a chimeric creation of Tywin _and_ Aerys, at _best_

[@renaigh]

I'd believe the sorcerer who cut Varys was Marwyn instead Bloodraven.

[@sam_c95]

"I think that that's just kind of a lot more shit, and not as good." You have such a way with words Glidus, love it

[@connorp8408]

It always surprises me when Preston is known for hos post apocalyptic theory and his Dornish Master Plan (not sure if 1000% only his) is never mentioned

[@Muzer0]

* You never added the Everyone Is Azor Ahai theory to the board in the end * Even if you start from a blank slate next time it'd be great to see a final version where you've merged them both... A giant mosaic of insane fan theories sounds fun.

[@DamianMaisano]

I have a really strange fondness for H+A=M+J. Meera’s being apparently heir and a woman makes her mother more likely Dornish. Ashara’s body I believe was explicitly never found. But mostly, I want her to be the Swoed of the morning

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

It was also said that Ashara had a "stillborn baby girl" and Meera is listed as being born the same year as Jon and Robb.

[@El_Descarriado]

I'm Azor Ahai. I just couldn't be bothered with the show, because it seemed to be getting quite silly. I'm in the books, you just can't see me. My whole life is there though, I was born in a burning down salt factory. They mixed up Lightbringer with my replica Obi-Wan Kenobi Episode III lightsaber. Sorry gang.

[@anastasialovesoranges]

Fell asleep 20 minutes before the end of the stream listening to Glidus’ soothing voice. Nice.

[@iirovaltonen4258]

Who are we trying to deceive? Naturally King Aerys wrote the pink letter!

[@Gothicah]

The LF+l=SR is something I always just assumed anyways just because of their relationship I assumed they had a kid and lied and say it was JA's. I'm sure it'll never get revealed if it hasn't by now because that's more of a beginning reveal to me or like midway like right before he kills Lysa

[@bethperforms6191]

This stream was super fun. THANKS GLIMBUS! [“For the algorithm!” Sung to the tune of “For the Watch!”]

[@MajoradeMayhem]

It was very nice to be able to join you live, thank you Glidus!

[@justsomedude5727]

The doom of old valyria was a downfall of an advanced society, theres also valyrian highways which are somewhat implied to be akin to pavement

[@duolingo0552]

But couldn’t that just have been dragons melting stone

[@SomeRandomMario]

"The Others aren't evil" ... I distinctly remember reading that one of the Others was laughing right before or after it killed someone.

[@Chickentendies1989]

The same way that many characters in the story enjoy combat and killing. It makes them as evil as Jaime or the hound. It doesn't make them nice but wouldn't really say they are evil by the standard of the world they exist in

[@SomeRandomMario]

@@Chickentendies1989 that's comparing apples and oranges, pal. The others as far as we know in the song cannot be injured by normal weapons. so when fighting people they know will not pose ANY harm to them, it's like attacking a defenseless animal or child. There were 5 others laughing when they killed Waymar. Contrast that to the Hound, from what he saw, he did not find joy in killing Mycah, he just followed orders. and Jaime first and foremost enjoys fighting, not necessarily killing, but fighting. if anything, the other's characterization in the prologue is closer to people like Vargo Hoat, but still much tamer than people like Ramsay.

[@Caesim9]

I'm sad that I missed this stream. And I had to drive for 6 hours today and all I wanted to do was watch this vod. Thanks Glidus for making this, so I can enjoy my afternoon today :)

[@treyhockersmith9418]

Glidus completely losing it and breaking over Sarella = Shae was well worth the wait to the end

[@starlight0313]

After I heard the “Coldhands is Daemon Targaryen” theory, i said “what the fuck” 5 times

[@daffygoose4757]

1:15:47 oh hey that was me! I submitted that crackpot theory!

[@sampagano205]

I'm convinced that the lemon tree is another hips don't lie moment for George.

[@renaigh]

the Doom was a nuclear meltdown and Euron is a S.T.A.L.K.E.R

[@kat8559]

If you haven't read the strugatskys yet, comrade, highly recommend.

[@Jfieldsend94]

The A+J=J+C would be really interesting if it's true. For the reasons mentioned, but also for the irony that the kids Tywin were most "proud" of aren't his, while the one he hates and is constantly ashamed of is his only child. Would also bring new meaning to how Aerys ordered Jamie to kill his father and so that's what he did. It would also fit with the personality of Joffrey, and the 3 of them are also absent of normal traits associated with inbreeding which are usually absent through Targaryen incest.

[@wtr3059]

1:03:49 Glimbo almost turned Kiwi here; "No sheep that I'm aware of... I'm fucking- Uhh... They're invisible" Don't think I didn't catch that

[@KomodoDojo]

Rhagaer’s rubies glamoured the faceless man that Robert killed and the three prisoners at kings landing (Jaqen, Rorge and Biter) are the 3 kings guard from the Tower of Joy. HAHAHA

[@aakashbasu3219]

I hear the beeping but it's very faint, could be some audio artifact or street noise or something

[@renaigh]

Sweet Robin is just a stepping stone towards Alaynes conquest for power.

[@alanpennie8013]

Yep. But if he gets to be King in The North I doubt he'll mind.

[@natbvm1880]

Watching this in mid 2024 and hanging out for the 10 minutes

[@Texmechs]

Lemons actually bear fruit in winter. It's why they are 86 fucking cents a piece right now. They aren't in season.

[@stupidhandles]

But in warm/tropic regions, which is still as warm as summers in, less tropic regions. They produce fruit in winter because summer is too hot

[@marymcallister7963]

I could believe Howland Reed being Howl, because in the books Howl is actually a guy from Wales who likes rugby and is also a wizard and travels between our world and the world of the books via a magic portal. However Howl is also a very handsome, vain man who has had a bunch of girlfriends and that doesn't really fit Howland. Maybe Howland is actually a pre-moving castle Howl or even a pre-Wales Howl. Or maybe it's a Narnia situation where he was like just a little welsh boy who got isekai'd to Westeros ans then at some point he goes back to Wales as a little boy, having learned all the magic from his time in Westeros and in search of a way to go back to Westeros because......... i dont fucking know why you would wanna go back there but bear with me. He opens a portal and ends up in Ingary instead of Westeros ends up in Ingary and fucks around. Or Ingary is Westeros but like 10000 years in the future.

[@christinestreeter8566]

I don’t get the theories regarding Dany being a secret child of someone else. A bunch of people were there at Dragonstone when she was born. Her brother Viserys was there and was eight years old…he was old enough to remember his sisters birth.

[@anotherpawn]

It's been a decade since the last book released and the fandom is bored.

[@PhilipBuhr]

1:49:00 "Old Nan said you can't trust Crows..." She calls the night watch Crows?! Old Nan wrote the pink letter????

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

Thing is with 'the Others aren't evil', GRRM has done that with the Wildlings already (and the Dothraki, after a fashion). I don't see him doing that again, certainly not in the North in the same plotline. Not saying they aren't potentially a complex society, nor that they don't have their own reasons for doing what they do, but they are an omnicidal threat against all living things. I could see them being considered a force of nature (cliiiiiimate change), perhaps - something to which morality is irrelevant - but never remotely a justifiable or understandable point of view. The point is all of humanity banding together - they are Other than human. They are Unseelie, alien, amoral. They are more like the slavers - complex, (possibly) with their own culture, not an easy problem to solve - but always villainous. Their whole thing is resurrecting (and thus enslaving) the dead - whoever they are, however they died. They kill and resurrect (and thus enslave) animals as well (remember the bear!), so their problem isn't solely with humans (like a broken pact or something, as I have seen suggested). They laugh as they kill Royce in the very first chapter - so they enjoy their violence. The way they are set up, I don't see the series ending in a peace with the Others. The drama is not that the Others are being discriminated against (like the Wildlings) but that most everyone is ignoring the threat! "Sometimes obvious things are the thing" to put it succinctly :P

[@hithedragon7842]

Very well put.

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

@@blaubeer8039 But he does point out that sometimes war and violence is just, necessary and right. Roose Bolton desiring 'a peaceful land, a quiet people' is not admirable, its horrifying because he is an oppressive, evil oathbreaker. Peace is sometimes subjugation. War against him is just and necessary, just like war against the Lannisters was just and war against slavers is morally right. GRRM is a guy who opposed the Vietnam war but has said he 100% would have signed up and fought the Nazis - a force wholly irredeemable despite what a theoretical individual in their ranks may have thought about their actions. The story is not as simple as 'war bad'; war is horrible, it destroys people, it scars the land and those that live there - but sometimes it is necessary. Yes, I am familiar with the anthropological use of Othering and its colonial connotations, I just don't think that's whats happening here - humans haven't oppressed the Others, haven't enslaved them, colonised them (like the Andals did the First men, the First men did to the Children - like the North did to the Free Folk). My point is, the thrust of the story does not set up there being a peace with the Others because they are not a group that is discriminated against, like the Wildlings. Humankind does not have a lesson to learn about treating this particular 'other' better because they have forgotten it even exists - the lesson is you need to remember this threat, come when called, put aside your differences and fight the good fight. GRRM has described Stannis as the righteous King, a good man 'the King who still cared' BECAUSE he has come north to fight this threat - which doesn't make much sense if the lesson to be learned is 'have you tried speaking with the Others?'. Same with Mel, who he has described as the most misunderstood character he has written; when you consider most people think of her as evil (on account of all of the burning of people), that seems to imply her being driven by a good purpose, as we see when we finally get into her head. Also, I don't think 99% of human actions in the book are bad? The series is uncompromising about showing the bad, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good. We have seen the events of the books bring out the best and worst in every human; not only do we only see the Others in negative contexts, we also only hear of them doing negative things and the lore we hear is also only negative. There is no evidence suggesting the Others to be something other (heh) than an omnicidal destructive force, and a lot of evidence to support that they are precisely just that, the series ultimate mummer's dragon - something for the heroes to fight. Like, they kill and resurrect (enslave) animals, Wildlings, Watchmen - literally everything that crosses their path. They have demonstrated no nuance or selectiveness in their actions and thus there is no evidence of a purpose beyond killing everything and restoring a winter that never ends. Tormund has to kill one of his own sons! Where is the need for moral nuance in fighting that?

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

@@blaubeer8039 I know he goes for that sort of narrative, he has done it with the Wildlings, who are perfectly set up and then deconstructed. I am not saying there is no chance he does this with the Others, I just think a) it hasn't been set up, b) there is no evidence for and a lot against and c) it would be repetitive. I feel that it would be an unsatisfying ending if it does end that way; it would come out of nowhere, it undermines a lot of themes set up from the very first chapter of the series. Not everything should be a twist. It is also a diferent prospect, especially in terms of necessary narrative and thematic set up, to pull this off in a series vs a standalone.

[@FinlandiaWhiteEyes]

@@blaubeer8039 And to you!

[@alanpennie8013]

@@blaubeer8039 My guess is that at some point Bran or Jon (or both) will establish a psychic link with them so that we can begin to understand them. As for their final fate its hard to know. Extermination or reintegration into the weirwood net both seem plausible. My own pet theory is that Jon ( The Night's King) becomes their leader.

[@janine7384]

Oberyn poisoning Tywin takes some of the meaning out of Tyrion killing him though. I like to think that if Tyrion hadn’t killed Tywin than he’d still be alive, not that it effectively didn’t matter. I only accept this one if Tywin was poisoned, but only enough to be in the loo when he was killed, not enough to die.

[@renaigh]

the Others are just kids with superpowers.

[@alanpennie8013]

It's a Good (icy) Life.

[@carmandirda]

99% of theories for the series (books and show) = EVERYONE is a Targ or a Faceless Man. ALL OF THEM.

[@sofiav7071]

Writing the pink letter is just not stannis' vibe

[@evancarlson5805]

I've solved Lemongate. We're told that Sweet Robin loves lemoncakes. Why would GRRM give us that detail unless it's a clue? Dany was raised in the Vale because she was the child of Lysa and Littlefinger that Hoster wanted to abort. The timeline fits.

[@Sarcastro_78]

Man, what a boring World this would if we are all secret somebodies of a (insert dynastic family) or everyone we meet is that turd we hated in 7th grade just disguised as the tiny Indonesian Postman who delivers to my building. Or, my third cousin Colleen is a horse because my mom never told me she wasn't a horse (ok, that'd be funny).

[@XxHizzyxX]

The letter was written by Ramsay.. I just don't see how it could be anyone else, the use of the term "crow" can be excused by his interrogating Mance and the spearwives.. they would've referred to jon and/or the nights watch as crow(s).

[@alanpennie8013]

Agreed.

[@AmandaDavis6130]

1:59:49 Well you know what they say, sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology 😄

[@redfyresasoiaf]

I like the theory that Aerys sired Cersei/Jaime (not Tyrion) so it's ironic that Tywin was so proud of them while Tyrion was his only real son.

[@ELFBOYMUSIC]

I love the idea of Daemon being Coldhands. First time I’ve heard that.

[@xrphoenix7194]

I also quite like the cold hands is the nights king theory

[@Prawnsly]

Omg that fucking picture of danny lmao... haunting me the whole way through

[@evancarlson5805]

I've heard the theory that the Others are moving south because they're angry that a woman was buried in the Winterfell crypts. But I believe that a relic from Rhaegar is buried with Lyanna, and the Others are angry that something belonging to a Valyrian is buried in the Winterfell crypts. I also think a song written by Rhaegar about himself and Lyanna and their child is buried with her. That's the literal "Song of Ice and Fire," not some bullshit written by Sam in the final episode.

[@sunkist1309]

Lemon trees don’t grow in bravos is the jet fuel doesn’t melt steel beams of asoiaf

[@wyattrota9070]

D&D got the job bc they were able to guess who Jon snow's mother was

[@renaigh]

The Kindly Man = Rhaegar.

[@Guinnessdrnkr1234]

2:47:18 what about Oberyn poisoning Joffrey? He felt bad about Tyrion taking the fall so he championed Tyrion in the trial by combat. I've seen all the iceberg videos I don't think I've ever seen anybody suggest this particular theory. It fits without too much mental gymnastics.

[@anotherpawn]

He championed Tyrion to get a chance to take on the Mountain, I don't see why he would risk his life to save Tyrion who he barely knows.

[@StrongHamr]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6qXiq2KeZV9a5I Benjen Stark knew about R+L=J Also for one I made: Lady Stoneheart will be so blinded by hate she will kill Edmure Tulley and/or Jeyne Westerling. Stoneheart ambushes the prisoners being moving toward Casterly Rock (intel was given to her by Tom O' Sevens). Jeyne's mother is hanged, but Stoneheart doesnt believe Jeyne about not betraying Robb or even loving him in the first place. Or she is so blinded by rage that she blames Jeyne for Robb's death indirectly. Also, Edmure will try to stop Cat from killing Jeyne or Stoneheart will think Edmure taking down the Stark banner over Riverrun means he is a traitor too (again due to the madness of her new persona). How twisted would that be since everything Cat did in life was in her view protecting her family and the house words of Tulley are "Family. Duty. Honor." However it ends up happening, I think Stoneheart will kill one of her own family; most likely Jeyne or Edmure.

[@sean4929]

There is very clearly a soft beeping in the background

[@crazychimp1324]

Jamie Lannister chefs up cerci and his unborn child and defeats the dead in battle , but only to be known as kinslayer

[@lukaslambs5780]

Benjen isn’t Coldhands, Oh Oh Oh. Stop pretending you know Oh Oh. What if Benjen is Patchface instead? No No No.

[@thedopaminestop2355]

Dany being Rs kid actually makes sense as to why she naturally thinks about him so much and feels such a connection to him. She hardly ever thinks of Aerys. It’s possible that D&D were told that Dany and Jon were actually siblings and they decided to go a different route and not turn their 2 main characters, into incestuous siblings like the villains were (Jaime and cercei). Or maybe George never told them because he wanted to keep at least some secrets for the books 🤷🏻

[@liul]

I agree with you about Gravedigger, it'd be great for Sandor to end his arc there. I don't want Cleganebowl

[@merkbromerkington3215]

This just doesnt feel right without someone screaming LEMONS DONT GROW IN BRAAVOS

[@omarsener8491]

"I stream and I know things." I see what you did there ;)

[@leonardocruz83]

Hey Glidus, Sandor will appear again, remember the “unkiss”. I don’t think Grrm will leave that plot die.