Don Brash on the Treaty Principles Bill

[@susanpockett4314]

Surprisingly (to me) I completely agree with Don Brash. Particularly the bit about owning one's own property -- which the New World Order is now trying to reject, starting by declaring areas of private land "areas of Natural Significance" on which you suddenly can't do lots of things, even though you own the land. Which is a bit like the start of "You will own nothing and you will be happy", right? So Luxon's causing a second clause to be inserted into the Treaty Principles Bill, giving iwi and hapu more rights than everyone else, wrecks the Bill in my view. And as for land owned by Maori, the Treaty actually says they can only sell it to the governor who represented the Queen. But of course THAT was immediately ignored. So the Treaty was always broken, BY MAORI, from the very beginning. Personally I think we should simply forget about the Treaty. True, having a Constitution doesn't seem to be doing much for the US at the moment -- but why don't we just entrench our Bill of Rights Act, so that the likes of Jabcinda can't ride roughshod over that whenever they feel like it?

[@richsmith3300]

Layman's terms ,a fat buĺly kid walks into a kids party takes all the cake and wont share. The Maori are the other kids.🤣🤣

[@StGammon77]

We already have Magna Carta it's sufficient we just don't get taught about it

[@charlie-i7q]

@@ray-rm4zz here is some history for ya your not from here just like us and your problem is ? why do you expect to be treated any differant than the whites or any other people who live here ? everyone is equal under GOD as its stated in the good book . remember being tyranical is to stand over another, is that what you want to happen?

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

@@susanpockett4314 oh my goodness the thickness. There's so many stories that show how truly evil and calculated the white supremacy that is colonising this land really is. Absolutely despicable people who are not in anyway honourable. I personally have a great great grandfather who was assassinated during land courts so you lot could have your homeless selves here. Watching your pathetic mouth

[@JohnSmith-ux3tt]

​@@ray-rm4zzStop crying. It's 2024 - time to move on.

[@billhyndman-l7q]

Don Brash is crystal clear. I agree with him 100%.

[@StGammon77]

He's been trying to be heard for decades

[@Annon.yamous]

DonBrash is a rash on my ass 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Tutu-Blah-Blah]

@@StGammon77 Yet, he never says anything worth listening to.

[@mabear9238]

​@@Tutu-Blah-Blah Well he is now. People on here are listening.

[@Allstaris]

The Treaty has 3 Articles. NO principles. No Maori special treatment period.

[@maorifilm]

🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽

[@NattyBeGood]

Te Tiriti is Boss! Tino Rangatiratanga is what it is.

[@J.Smith-rc6wh]

the more this discussion goes on the more I agree with Michael, just ditch the whole treaty back to a founding document ONLY, we are a multicultural country being held to ransom by a 180 year old document that was only part of our law for 20 years after it was signed, and should again be removed from it now reparations have been made

[@daddybob6096]

You're absolutely right.

[@kiwiyogi2846]

Bravo

[@richsmith3300]

Sorry but a treaty is a treaty like a contract is a contract you cant just change it when it doesnt suit you or can you .?

[@jemma_19988]

Twas never a legal document

[@kiwiyogi2846]

@@richsmith3300 The US Constitution has 27 amendments so the treaty can definitely be changed. As Don said - its meaning was understood by everyone for 150 years. Some Maori activists are the ones trying to change.

[@davethewave7248]

Brash is right about Article 2. It is dealing with property. Articles 1 and 3 deal with politics and rights etc. Land was sold freely. When land was confiscated, that came after the King movement rebellion.... which rejected the sovereignty of the Crown/ the treaty.

[@dgm2593]

Maori land was never for sale. Selling land for money is a pakeha idea. Pakeha took advantage of Maori? a culture who didnt understand or have an abstract concept of the english language? presenting an ambiguous peace treaty? with hidden agenders of stealing land? to pay off war debts? to expand their British Empire by invading other countries.

[@davethewave7248]

The Crown's right to govern is not based on the treaty. It is based on the British proclamation of sovereignty over all the country [and all residing within it] that was made a few months after Waitangi. All the treaty did was provide a moral legitimacy to that proclamation in order to meet the humanitarian movement in full swing at that time. Our current Parliament's right to govern [sovereignty] is based on the 1852 Constitution of NZ Act passed by the British government in 1852. With the process and progress of history in mind, the treaty was soon eclipsed/ superceded. Accordingly, it makes no historical sense to have a treaty-centric politics. Unfortunately though, it has got to the point where a significant mass of people think it does makes sense... giving it political weight. How did such a bizarre situation come about? Treason of the clerics/ academics.

[@robertmccabe8632]

And when is NZ independence day? Given the 4 month executive vacation as stated in the Acts interpretation act of 1920. Treaty of Versilles and league of nations. And the changes in the coat of arms at the time.

[@mxvega1097]

Yes. 21 May 1840, proclaimed by Hobson, north island on the basis of cession under the Treaty, south island on basis of discovery. Hobson appeared concerned that settlers at Port Nicholson were preparing to set up their own administration. Sovereign continuance is reiterated in the Constitution Act 1986.

[@davethewave7248]

@@mxvega1097 Yep, quite comical of Hobson to rush that proclamation due to those 'pesky settler riff raff' down south [goes to show the unfortunate polarization between the NZ Company and the government/ missionaries] . Of course, if he'd held off a bit, he would've known that Major Bunbury had also declared sovereignty over the South Island at Cloudy Bay... and also on the basis of chiefs ceding sovereignty to the Crown given he'd collected the signatures of the major chiefs.

[@StGammon77]

It comes about by 50 years on Waitangi Tribunal disseminating 1000's of pieces of literature into every nook and cranny of life and also treasonous Treaty workshops all that time that has indoctrinated even the Pakeha it's witchcraft

[@utubermax]

How did it come about? Through politicians appeasing Maori and ingratiating themselves for their personal benefit and, more recently, the pall of woke that has befallen not only NZ but the West in general. A truly bizarre situation as you rightly indentify.

[@REwing]

There are always some that want to sneak through the cracks and disrupt for personal opinions. We are a nation of many races.

[@StGammon77]

Including a unique Pakeha race which gets slammed

[@Duckz558]

⁠​⁠@@StGammon77 get it right lol you haven’t a clue it seems why do you think pakeha are getting slammed? what you sow you reap other words what goes around comes around is what’s happening in which the few can’t get a grasp of

[@louisebracknell2451]

@@Duckz558 so if you are white, that makes you guilty of some historical event?

[@geofflewis8599]

Liberate New Zealand, Burn the Treaty.

[@deantairi8357]

not happening idiot

[@jasaa229]

i wonder if its like a bible

[@deantairi8357]

not happening idiot

[@dgm2593]

Its time for all tribes to unite and sign the DIVORCE papers with the UNFAITHFUL Crown!!! and send all pakeha PEASANTS back to england where they come from!!!!

[@seanodwyer4322]

Give it back too U.S.A. Marines as they had it until september 1943, just in case Japs got itt.

[@nzmw2023]

The "English version" of the Treaty that Michael Laws is reading that mentions "forest and fisheries" is not the English version of the Treaty. It's called Freeman's "false treaty" and does not match Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The real English version is James Busby's final English draft that was translated into Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The Waitangi Tribunal use Freeman's version to gain additional rights for Maori that aren't mentioned in the Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Captain Hobson, as requested by Queen Victoria, stated that the Maori Tiriti o Waitangi was the true agreement and that all other copies "... and all signatures that are subsequently obtained are merely testimonials of adherence to the terms of that original document” which is Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

[@StGammon77]

The Littlewood Treaty is the discovered final English writ translated into the native lingo and this is hidden at Te Papa it's criminal not to let the public see the real McCoy and only go with a backtranslated corrupt Maori version

[@dgm2593]

Maori land was never for sale. Selling land for money is a pakeha idea. Pakeha took advantage of Maori? a culture who didnt understand or have an abstract concept of the english language? presenting an ambiguous peace treaty? with hidden agenders of stealing land? to pay off war debts? to expand their British Empire by invading other countries.

[@dgm2593]

Maori land was never for sale. Selling land for money is a pakeha idea. Pakeha took advantage of Maori? a culture who didnt understand or have an abstract concept of the english language? presenting an ambiguous peace treaty? with hidden agenders of stealing land? to pay off war debts? to expand their British Empire by invading other countries.

[@utubermax]

But isn't interesting how Maori and their activist advocates conveniently chop and change between the versions when it suits. Happy to adopt the Maori version when they seek to claim the non-ceding of sovereignty and the twisting of tino rangatiratanga, but only too keen to accept the exclusivity given of the Chiefs, Hapu and Iwi (only) of the their forests and fisheries in the patently corrupt Freeman version. The "Freeman" nonsense should be repealed from the Act and substituted with the translation of TE Young in a1879, which collaborates the Busby English draft of 4 February 1840.

[@JimmyJenks-u8v]

Did Hobson sneeze or cough? Fart maybe? He had a lot on his shoulders I guess. A shame some rely on that wonky telling of the whole event. A lot to base (or partly base, wink wink), your life's work on. I'm talking Brashy now sorry.

[@HunkyMan777]

Guys - we are sick of hearing about the treaty bill. Just scrap the fu@king thing and be done with it

[@kentstevens5839]

Even the English version of the Treaty was not attempting to create special rights for one ethnic group. Article 2 is about property rights. Article 3 says that Maori have the same rights as British people.

[@the_oneandonlycrazyjess1396]

U didnt hear right

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

@@kentstevens5839 I wish we could post our research here. So much of what the Pakeha has done here is criminal

[@reganmaconaghie2612]

Yeah Māori people have same as British people not this flow of immigrants

[@bronwynsearle2117]

No one can divide an integrated people...its tooooo late..we are all NZers! No Maori left, evolution has got rid of them... The sooner they learn to accept that, the better we will all get along . 🇳🇿

[@Pastaaa204]

And I see the evolution of your bloodline has resulted in you having no braincells left - you poor thing❤

[@richsmith3300]

You recon wont be in your life time buddy.

[@kungfutzu3779]

the sooner *who* learn to accept that?

[@wax333]

no Māori you left you say. well haven't we got a story to tell you.

[@jemma_19988]

There are people of maori descent but most maori have european ancestors also. In that sense we are one people

[@sunstar1630]

Time to stop squeezing the Juice out of the Treaty place it in the Tepepa Museum.

[@bananamiriam]

.... but keep Te Reo - everywhere

[@paulmeersa7162]

That is the way I understand the Treaty too. The documentary evidence from the period is perfectly clear, and is what I base my position on.

[@dgm2593]

Maori land was never for sale. Selling land for money is a pakeha idea. Pakeha took advantage of Maori? a culture who didnt understand or have an abstract concept of the english language? presenting an ambiguous peace treaty? with hidden agenders of stealing land? to pay off war debts? to expand their British Empire by invading other countries.

[@JeffAndrew-r5q]

The Polynesians couldn't and didn't read and write. 10% of natives here 180yrs ago scribbled a piece of paper. Is that a contract on its own??? A joke... it's going to get nasty here real soon. Willy Jackson u r gone first. 😊

[@Rodtang-x5z]

Those scribbles you speak of were enough for Hobson and Co to accept though wasn't it... NEXT!!!!

[@tonygee3284]

Don Brash and David Seymour what a team maybe he will join ACT Get rid of this treaty once and for all

[@ChrisBNisbet]

"Bonkers". Well put.

[@louisebracknell2451]

Elizabeth Rata: The current revisionist interpretation of the Treaty is invalid, as the 1840 Treaty was superseded by the establishment of democracy with the 1852 Constitution Act. What you are hearing about now (Te Tiriti o Waitangi) is the post 1987 Treaty revisionism which shouldn’t be relied upon at all. What we need to rely on is the basic democratic principles of human rights and equality and open & accountable government.

[@nomadhamilton8669]

All equal under the law

[@HTDSNZ]

That English version was nothing but a draft, and not the final draft used to translate to te tiriti, it was written by a man who had no authority to do so, it was not even an official draft. Why do people not know how this draft came to be with the other Maori printout, they had to separate it from the Maori printout it was attached to as it was used to capture an overflow of signatures that were captured on the printout of te tiriti that the chiefs at that location were presented due to the real one not reaching the area in time. The ignorance is astounding, no wonder we are led by the nose as a country. No right was promised to the Maori that no other British subject had also, property rights were the main concern of the Maori as they had none before the treaty and knew about the law of the brits and how they would gain them rights by coming under it.

[@bac5040]

Mr Laws is quoting from the rouge Freeman version of TOW

[@PeteThecurious100]

Julian Bachelor at Stop Co-government has the encyclopedia on the Treaty subject.

[@rodnichols6237]

Julian Batchelor is 💯🥜🧠

[@StGammon77]

@@rodnichols6237 Ahh actually he only uses historical records so you must think that info is wrong?

[@rodnichols6237]

@@StGammon77 he uses Julian Batchelor history

[@Peter_Pepper_Love]

It's being jammed hard whether we like it or not! 😖

[@Sharon-yk7xm]

I hope we the tax payers are not paying for this

[@kiwikiwi223]

Seymours policy roughly cost 4million 😂😂

[@Devin-w7t]

@@kiwikiwi223 For something that they have said will definitely not pass 🤦‍♂️

[@Rodtang-x5z]

Seymour is just shoring up his voter base...if he gets the bill passed that's just a bonus...there's no doubt he will have a bigger percentage of votes next election...bill or no bill...

[@JohnSmith-ux3tt]

​@@Devin-w7tAt least we will clearly see who wants to keep us separated.

[@Devin-w7t]

@@JohnSmith-ux3tt even the PM has called the bill divisive….. Seymour and the ignorant group of boomer who voted for him are yet again on the wrong side of history

[@bunning63]

The government and Luxdern are a disappointment. Could heat a good part of NZ with all their hot air.

[@StGammon77]

No it was Labour that had hot air and killed people

[@williamearnshaw410]

The CROWN IS SOVEREIGN. The duly elected Government by the people, has every right to Rule ALL New Zealand citizens from whatever culture they may be or wherever they came from. Maori ceded their own sovereignty for that of the CROWN... as per agreed upon in the treaty which Queen Victoria instigated for the benefit of Maori and other peoples living in New Zealand.

[@wax333]

We did not ceed sovereignty. It's been ruled by the courts. We had no reason to. We were the majority in 1840. the crown has failed to uphold its end of the treaty. And again is trying to re write it.

[@williamearnshaw410]

@@wax333 there are so many fools that have been deceived in Maoridom... You are just one of those that are delusional..

[@StGammon77]

@@wax333 and there is the reason why you are being voted out, you have an erroneous thought and youre mind is full of browness but you don't realise it

[@StGammon77]

@@wax333 The Courts are English, so THE PEOPLE have the power not you, Magna Carta supercedes the Treaty and can be enacted anytime by anytime and citizens can lawfully strike on taxes and fines not that you'd know cos we don't get taught that but Pakeha know. Maori are just NZdrs in the Treaty, Maori are not mentioned because they are the new people equal with Pakeha who are now not English but Pakeha for 8 generations thankyou, you can only whakapapa back to the same space in time when records began. My fam were here before the Treaty and we didn't sign it, didn't ask natives to sign on behalf of us, we weren't consulted about the Crown ruling over us we escaped that bullshit then you reckon Natives just had the right to Lord it over everyone? SAME means SAME not one lot of rebels getting more than the righteous rest.

[@StGammon77]

Not even 12 hours and nearly 7k views on this one! I've noticed the Platform is getting about 100 subs per day this is excellent progress albeit some trolls that get beaten up in the comments, at least it's a safe fight lol

[@rodnichols6237]

And let me guess you donate to this 💯🥜🧠

[@StGammon77]

@@rodnichols6237 No in fact I was a member for $7 a month for 1 week only then unsubbed, I paid to see the full interviews and be on live vid chat but wasn't worth it due to Sean not conversing with those members in live chat but seemingly conversing with other public from some other channel like texts or emails not sure. Also no-one was watching the full interviews anyway in that group of live chat members so there wasn't anyone to chat with lol. Plus when you enter into the live chat after becoming a member for it, the text shows you spent $7.99 with your name and you don't even get thanked like Sean wasn't reading any of the live chat or questions! No, I like the people that they interview not so much the journalist and I think it's an avenue of great information and discussion.

[@justscrolling1323]

You poms love to shit talk on the internet about us maori, thats something about your culture you people hold on to, isnt that right adrienne

[@paulmeersa7162]

Spot on Don, this is why we should not have a Treaty Principals Bill. The Treaty is what the Treaty is, and it should not be messed with. It would be dangerous to do so, as we are already starting to see the manipulation on the Bill is starting = shocking!

[@Albert_Br]

Spot off Don. Don Brash is outta date and time. Mike Laws is an ahole just propagating conspiracy theories with lies. The Platform is just full of right wing nuttas lol. Love the way Laws photoshops his videos to hide his atrocity )

[@nikkiddle4745]

But the courts, the academics and every iwi hothead are already messing with the treaty.

[@paulmeersa7162]

@@nikkiddle4745 Yes they are Nikki, thanks to the last time we meddled with the Treaty in 1975. They apply their spin to that, like they are starting to on this POTB already. That act needs to be repealed. And, we need to go back to the true meaning and intent of the document. Research The Treaty for Dummies Parts 1 through 6. Best explanation of the God honest truth yet - that I have found at least.

[@allaboutstress]

I can’t see anything wrong with this discussion

[@colinboggust2950]

Sweet I just need to renegotiate with my Australian landlord

[@ColinSmyth-r8m]

All NZ’s go and have a look at the plaque outside the church in Paihia, then make up your own mind.

[@silentcharm1]

Yeah, same old...Look what they did to NZBORA (1990) Designed to protect human rights from who? Chiefly an authoritarian, or totalitarian government. But then what did they do. They gave on the one hand and took with the other. With the limiting clause, (like the magicians sleight of hand), that states roughly so long as it is consistent with democracy, they can limit (read override) those rights. But it is in the final analysis, the government who decides if limitation of your rights is still consistent with democracy, they decide what democracy should look like, and whether removing your rights is still consistent with their interpretation of democracy. The recent changes to Seymour's proposal does the exact same thing. Everyone has equal rights, except when the government decides they can favour or give more rights to Maori.

[@reganmaconaghie2612]

What about the 1.6 million hectors of stolen land

[@StGammon77]

Nothing was stolen at all, the theft was going on before Euros came we brought law and order into that

[@lifes_abeach6040]

🎉True colors 😂🎉

[@katefloss973]

The Kawharu version ( which is the cause of all confusion ) sits in the cabiet manuel 2023. This version has never been passed into law. Only the 1975 version was passed into law. The Maori , the government , basset and others take pieces of the original and attach it to the kawharu version to give it legal status when in fact it has none. They pick and choose , one minute this one the next that one. There ought to be one treaty. the legal treaty that includes europeans and Australians.

[@StGammon77]

Yes and that was found in 1989 but not known to the public it's authenticated and stored in Te Papa as far as I know they need to bring it out cos that was the final one translated and is the only one NZdrs will need we all speak English it's the main document

[@raniera13]

Here it is people the start of the implosion of the right. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@NZ_Kiwi1010]

Huh??

[@StGammon77]

Of the righteous

[@tracymichaelsen493]

@@StGammon77 God, Gold and Glory war cry of the righteous colonists- Hiding behind God to justify the glory of Gold. Implosion of a fake glorious foundation disguised as Godliness. Colonization has been outed from the closet by the world for years. Its no longer touted as the Great Empire for God King and Country. Its seen for what it is- a pack of heinous psychopaths running around the planet killing and stealing.Justify it all you like. Thats the truth and whats worse you know it woman. Stop hiding behind God so you think you ancestors where morally righteous. Plundering is not righteous. Just like eating each other isnt . Maori stopped and accepted God. Pakeha havent stopped, have they?

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

I think Maori should talk to the crown

[@MrRamyon74]

100%, the Crown doesn’t represent Pakeha.. Our ancestors left for a reason and built a new country.

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

@@MrRamyon74 well that's problematic because the agreement is between two monarchy

[@StGammon77]

@@TiffanyTwisted-w3q No it's not

[@AnnSmith-u9c]

@@TiffanyTwisted-w3qwhat two monarchy? The crown and

[@Devin-w7t]

@@StGammon77that’s exactly what it is……

[@JimmyJenks-u8v]

Oh no, more reckons from the Cryptkeeper...and look he's invited the head vampire to feast on the rights of the marginalised. What a happy, sane, and thoughtful team they make! Two pipers fiddling for the minds of the easily led and angry for clicks and likes.

[@StGammon77]

Marginalised oh yeah right from the mud to Hollywood Maori went in 180 years you must be deluded

[@misuseofdrugsact]

The Crown should recompese Maori for the land that was taken we can all agree on that. The problem is the Crown cant afford to recompense Maori for all the land that was taken. Tax didnt exist in this country till long after the Te Tiriti o Waitangi was signed.

[@StGammon77]

Confiscated or sold that's it

[@petertrott5107]

🇳🇿New Zealand 🇳🇿

[@iosefaandrews2351]

It seems more and more clearer to me maori ceded sovereignty. In my view some maori didn't fully appreciate what the double edged sword of colonialism would have on them and perhaps looked back with a tinge of regret. Not all maori signed the treaty we must remember and perhaps it gave english licence to take in their eyes what was the queens. Maori have been trying to claw back to a time pre 1840 ever since. Over the many years following the treaty right up to the creation of the Waitangi Tribunal in 1975, there seemed to me to be a deep sense that maori language and culture was fast disappearing. But the past is the past. Now it seems that the whole issue had been high jacked by political pundits, the media and certain iwi for power and profit. But this will only lead to more problems for everyone including maori down the line.

[@siix477]

Haters gonna hate. Pointless discussion.

[@kiwikiwi223]

Theyve been trying to change or abolish the treaty since it was created nothing new here 😂

[@StGammon77]

maoris have changed it not Pakeha we want the truth, the real McCoy English writ which the public has NEVER SEEN not that you would know. Why don't you call Te Papa and ask for a copy of the Littlewood Treaty and see what they say.

[@kiwikiwi223]

@@StGammon77 how did maori change it?

[@Allstaris]

Scrap the treaty and move on. Time for independence from the crown and the iwi mafia. Don't like it then go back to Hawaiki

[@ruenicklin]

The bill ain’t getting through government so if you don’t like it looks like you needa go back to wherever you came from

[@stevenstuart1442]

what is wrong here is the English Treaty was NOT at waitangi, it was not read, presented, or even on the table on the 5th and 6th...it is NOT a Treaty.........article two actually says...(a direct translation of the Te tiriti) ."The Queen of England arranges and agrees to give to the Chiefs, the Hapus and all the people of New Zealand, the full chieftainship of their lands, their settlements and their property. But the Chiefs of the Assembly, and all the other Chiefs, gives to the Queen the purchase of those pieces of land which the proprietors may wish, for such payment as may be agreed upon by them and the purchaser who is appointed by the Queen to be her purchaser.....reads 'all the people of NZ'......c'mon Michael ,wake up...as Ltn Hobson stated...."The treaty which forms the base of all my proceedings was signed at Waitangi on the 6 February 1840, by 52 chiefs, 26 of whom were of the federation, and formed a majority of those who signed the Declaration of Independence. This instrument I consider to be de facto the treaty, and all signatures that are subsequently obtained are merely testimonials of adherence to the terms of that original document”. the Te tiriti...NOT an English version....end of story........

[@StGammon77]

Not sure what even youre trying to say

[@tim2muntu954]

From the TePapa website:- "Article the first The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof. Article the second Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs, yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf."

[@utubermax]

And who can we thank for this mess - politicans! That 'Freeman' penned nonsense has no rightful place in the ToW Act. It in no way is an accurate translation of Te Tiriti o Waitangi - the only true Treaty document.

[@stevenstuart1442]

@@StGammon77 then read it ..a factual piece historical details

[@stevenstuart1442]

@@tim2muntu954 ...you are quoting the fraudulent English txt, this so called treaty was NOT on the table, presented, or read and even signed on the 5th and 6th of Feb 1840......it's an unofficial translation written by Freeman....

[@the_oneandonlycrazyjess1396]

Your guys pronunciation of te reo is shocking and u understand the treaty

[@Allstaris]

It's a made up language that changes to fit the victim story being told.

[@StGammon77]

Te Reo is made up from English we don't need it now it was just for those who don't understand English

[@danielpio2729]

😂

[@brianalexander7579]

Sadly many here misinterpret the Treaty but the original treaty under Busby and in the Maori version is factually correct and is recognised under international Law, Hobsons Choice, Act Parties David Seymour continue to mislead New Zealanders.

[@StGammon77]

And where exactly have YOU seen the original English writ cos no-one else in the public has, it's in Te Papa but not displayed, the one displayed is not the original and maybe the reason why it was defaced.

[@brianalexander7579]

@@StGammon77 , you seem to have a lot of your information incorrect, as stated the interpretation my Hobsons Choice and Seymour state the version which was done well after the original version was written.

[@Freedom4NME2025]

We (Kiwis) accepted the imposing of taxes, and a judicial system and what-not did we?!?! 😃 I dunno about you fullaz but whenever I've refused, declined or denied them any authority over me I've been coerced and intimitated by govt. agents! 😳several times to the point of being assaulted by thugs purporting to be Law Enforcement Officers 😒🤦‍♂😆 A recent report commissioned by Andrew Coster confirms a bias by those thugs towards Polynesians so it's not surprising, nor is the fact that, understandably, a lot of Polynesians have a complete lack of respect for the colonialist's laws 🙄🤷‍♂🙂 The way I see it, at the time the Treaty gave the British the right to govern their settlements, not Maori owned land. This is what, I believe, lead to the misappropriation of land through the Maori Land Wars following its signing 🙄🤦‍♂😆 Fast forward to 2012-13 and a land title war between Maori was instigated by the imposition of a 2025 deadline for the settlement of treaty claims in my opinion 😒 By the way, I am a descendant of Sir George Grey through my grandmother's hapu Ngati Ahuru-Mahana ✌🙂

[@rore410]

All records are held in the British archive's including you genealogy if you don't like the treaty then go back to England

[@matthewdonoghue321]

Who is that a response to exactly... if you don't like the treaty then you can go back to the pacific islands!

[@J.Smith-rc6wh]

grow up, four generations of my family were born here, we no no place other than NZ, we have no where else to go

[@matthewdonoghue321]

@@J.Smith-rc6wh clearly the irony of this conversation has flown over your head. Have you never tasted your own medicine before? Getting you to grow up a bit was the whole point of the comment... obviously.

[@matthewdonoghue321]

Either thank you or an apology would be appropriate.

[@Pastaaa204]

​@@J.Smith-rc6whI mean if 4 generations of your family were born here, it sounds like your family came here by choice. They weren't banished from their ancestral motherland or pushed out due to overpopulation in Britain like original settler families. You do have somewhere to go, you guys just don't want to - and that's fine. However there does come a point where people need to realise new Zealands indigenous people are Maori, it's not like the crown welcomed us into their home - it was the other way round and there needs to be some acknowledgement of that. There are some issues regarding that as not all Maori gave the greenlight in this, however that's an internal Maori issue and we shouldn't take that frustration out on others. Pakeha expect Maori to be in a place of permanent servitude bc of the things they brought to the country, without acknowledging most of the infrasture they boast was in fact built by Maori 'rebels' and while also disregarding the fact that they also should be in a place of permanent servitude of Maori bc they are visitors in their home and Maori welcomed their presence and still do. It's about equal reciprocation - but it's almost like pakeha expect Maori to be their bootlickers and there's a sense of disgust at actually respecting Maori as a people. If you can't respect Maori, the right thing to do would be to go to a place where there are people you'll respect as humans and treat right.

[@joebloggs5333]

Whether you agree with these two racists or not, the point is, the treaty is an agreement between the crown and Maori. One party shouldn't be able to make changes to the agreement without the consultation of the other. It's that simple. Let's say this bill goes through and becomes law, if you think it will stay like that you are kidding yourself! When the next lot gets in, it could end up going in a direction you really don't want it to go. So be careful what you're asking for. These two clowns are trying to spark a race debate when there doesn't need to be one. My opinion is that for the most part we have managed race relations pretty well. Yes, you can argue some governments have leaned too far in and maybe some not far enough, but for the most part we all get along. Don't buy into this nonsense. We are equal. We are all kiwis.

[@StGammon77]

Maori are not mentioned in the Treaty and secondly Maori are the ones that have tampered with the Treaty, we are reversing that hot mess so it's our turn this is British soil and we will not tolerate thieves defaming our pioneering heritage that made NZ great!!

[@jayhart1353]

The Bill is not setting out to make any changes to The Treaty.... the Treaty is fine. What it is trying to do is remove all the changes that HAVE happened to the interpretation of the Treaty through mainly the addition since 1987 of vague references to principles... of which there are none.

[@StGammon77]

Maori haven't consulted with anyone about all the additions, mis-interpretations, back-translation, obligations, principles and shit so sit down we are in control here not you!

[@joebloggs5333]

@@StGammon77 Incorrect. The Waitangi Tribunal makes recommendations to the government of the day, and it is that government that implements those recommendations if they wish to. Go get some education on this topic.

[@joebloggs5333]

@@jayhart1353 Correct, the principles of the treaty do not alter the text of the document, but they do shape how it is understood and implied in a modern society. I mean that's the very reason they were brought in in the first place. I'm all for altering the principles if the right desperately wish to. All I'm saying is there needs to be some consultations that goes further than Act and Hobaons pledge.

[@quillakiore3499]

Iwi hapu and whanau has been cheated by the Crown out of 95 Percent of their land. Would you be happy for Māori to challenge privately owned land under English common law, ie the courts, for land that has improperly passed to another... And with regard to the Crown settlements with iwi re 'public land' why on earth would the govt pay out millions if the claims were not founded?

[@StGammon77]

Maori and the Crown are the same otherwise there would be no Maori in Government

[@djhemirukahemisphere8893]

such absurd points. Maori didn't agree to the NZ govt we had no choice. That's why our people are always protesting ... Try polling Maori how many will agree that Maori ceded -- it's literally a joke. Not many 😂 The very idea that 100 thousand Maori all from differnt iwi would agree for 2000 pakeha to govern them is ludicrous. How on earth would that even occur ? 😅😅

[@StGammon77]

And the Pakeha that were living on the land for years didn't sign the Treaty so you are actually saying the Queen did some deal with Maori to Govern the Pakeha pfft youre deluded

[@jameskatte1175]

Have a look at the podcasts from Julian Batchelor, he has the historical facts, no BS.

[@geoffreydawson5430]

Great we all crap out of the same hole, according to a boring Doctor that chose to go political. He dug his own hole the moment he was born. The rest is history. Did someone hurt his feelings? I am waiting for an argument other than I have a Doctors voice trust me. Anyway, gotta save for a coffin.

[@Maurimovers]

It's doesn't matter what you believe. It's about what it what the contract says. The treaty is a contract Why do you guys think the English treat version bares more weight?and just so you know, the government is not the sovereign. The people are. But only if we choose to be

[@paulmeersa7162]

Nonsense

[@rod-contracts1616]

The treaty is not a contract at all.

[@serenasmith26]

Why do you think the Maori Version has more weight?

[@rod-contracts1616]

It is not a contract. Nowhere near it.

[@StGammon77]

wrong that's why you are being voted out

[@jasaa229]

fuck me days is this another colonisation of nz

[@rod-contracts1616]

Blinkin oath, it's doubled Maori life expectancy. You're welcome.

[@PeterHooper-o3h]

WHAT ABOUT US ONES WHO DIDNT SIGN

[@PeterHooper-o3h]

Becuse we wernt dum lol😅😅😅😅

[@paulchristensen2573]

Treaty set in stone, move on bigots, pakeha writing very limited, afew xxx

[@StGammon77]

Yep it is so there shouldn't have been any additions by maori extremists without consulting THE PEOPLE of NZ who are all protected under the Treaty which is why the superior Government makes laws!

[@the_oneandonlycrazyjess1396]

​@@StGammon77your law

[@jameskatte1175]

@@the_oneandonlycrazyjess1396 With replies like this, that's why we need it sorting out, let the discussion happen

[@Tankhorse02]

The english came here to tell Māori what to do what a cheek of them. English treaty’s are fulled of lies because they knew māori wouldn’t understand properly what they actually mean. Now look where they are, They would’ve done it to us Samoans too given the chance the iguys!

[@geofflewis8599]

Garbage..

[@tonyp1340]

At least the Englsh didn't eat anyone when 'they' arrived.

[@Winstonsmithsalias]

If Samoa was the shining light of the pacific, you would be living there. More Samoans, Tongans, Niuenans etcettera live in New Zealand, than their own countries. Because the colonial system for all its warts is far better on every measurable way possible.

[@Tankhorse02]

@@tonyp1340 Nah they just killed the innocent people of their lands by orders of their greedy Queen, Write up page of bullshxt and call it proof that the land was taken in a civil manner and not by conquest

[@deantairi8357]

@@tonyp1340 idiot

[@dgm2593]

500+ Maori Chiefs who signed the Maori Version did not cede sovereignty. 39 southern Maori Chiefs signed the Pakeha version in Port Jackson that said they did cede sovereignty because pakeha left the Maori version behind. How fraudulent are Pakeha! This has been documented. Pakeha built the country on the pakeha version which is false!

[@StGammon77]

Jealousy will get you nowhere

[@jameskatte1175]

You are incorrect, Maori were killing each other at a rapid rate, they were also scared of the French. They wanted the protection of the Brits. Please read the history and the facts.

[@Allstaris]

😂 tell Charles. No more money for Maori, you have land, resources and people, do some work like everyone else

[@dgm2593]

@@StGammon77 take a look in the mirror

[@dgm2593]

@@jameskatte1175 its called tribal punishment. Its none of your business what we did or do. Sheesh!!!!