Elitism in the Sonic Community

[@angiectoan4543]

This all being said, I think the Sonic fanbase has matured and calmed down. Don't get me wrong, the crazies are certainly still here, the current fanbase is more disillusioned and depressed than anything.

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

The crazies are all condensed into the comic side of the fandom.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@Nathan-rb3qp correction the archie/satam part of the fanbase

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

@@pakboimsal8498 I don't like IDW either.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@Nathan-rb3qp like I said the archie sonic comics part of the fanbase

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

@@pakboimsal8498 I liked the Archie comics up to an extent.

[@aidanshowers8366]

I’m glad this video exist it’s the warning that this fandom needs but consitantly ignores. The adventure/2000s era side of the fan base is the one that I’ve seen been consistently toxic. I wish people would respect each other’s opinions and not throw around insults because someone disagrees with you. The community from what I’ve seen isn’t even a community it’s just a group of people who disagree and argue. But I’m glad that there are people in this fandom that I can talk to, and that it’s not all bad.

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

Dark Age, Meta, Boom, and IDW eras aren't away better, either.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer At least those stories are miles better than what ken penders shitty writing did

[@maas1208]

​@@JohnnyTheGamer I like the 2010s games tho and pls no hate

[@infiniteoctopaw]

Oh come on, I’ve waited since 2009 for people to recognize that Sonic and the Black Knight is actually good. Let me have this! 😭

[@pakboimsal8498]

But you don't have to shove it down on everyone's throats

[@infiniteoctopaw]

@@pakboimsal8498 what are you talking about??? In the Wild I’ve never met any of these so called “elitist” black Knight fans. Only ever people just say they like the game and story and how that’s how they’d like sonic to be.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@infiniteoctopaw okkkkk but don't force them to like black knight

[@infiniteoctopaw]

@@pakboimsal8498 who is forcing? And how are we forcing?

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@infiniteoctopaw I meant actual black knight stans not though

[@Nothavinit00]

Thank you for making this. Why can't folks just have fun? Why does every single game have to be looked at as competitive? Jeez...

[@josepha4161]

This is an interesting video, but I kinda felt like your focus for the topic of elitism (and the examples used) was punching down. Like a lot of Black Knight in it and tbh with you, I never even met a Black Knight elitist before lol. CD being used as example of elitism at its worst-- again, less popular game compared to other Classics. Very often regarded as the black sheep or "worst" of the Classics. If anything, it is understandable for fans of games that get a ton of hate regularly to naturally feel more defensive. Especially when a hivemind of people are trained to toss hate at said game; basically any time a person expresses their positive opinion about the game publicly, it usually leads to the many others ganging up on that one person to blame them for the decisions Sega makes going forward, insult their intelligence, insult their mental wellbeing, insult their standards for games and just generally acting condescending towards that person. If anything, fans of these unpopular games are more likely to be humbled since they had to be forced to deal with several criticisms targeted at their favorite game. They'll probably understand that it's obviously not for everybody and has certain flaws (constant reminders + they may feel wrong for liking the aspects that are being slammed. They may question it for themself.) You're likely to find rampant elitism in fan favorite games as they've grown very comfortable not having to deal with any critique of their fan favorite game. They feel power in numbers of people that agree with them. It's extremely easy to write off someone going against the popular opinion about that game as a clown/dumb/"just one person" amongst the masses that see it as a great game. And therefore, those criticisms are not seen as valid. No reflection on possible flaws and a view it is mostly flawless. Put simply, argumentum ad populum is key to this type of elitism which is much more common than the elitism found in unpopular titles. Also, the open and emotional hostility isn't necessary for elitism. I guess there is technically hostility in laughing at people, baiting and gaslighting, but they don't need to feel angry to act elitist, right? I rambled on and I'm not sure if you'll read it, but these are just my thoughts here. If I were to pinpoint where elitism is at its worst in the fanbase, it's probably 3&Knux (possibly Mania) for Classic, Adventure (and Adventure 2?) for Adventure era and Unleashed for Boost era. (My own personal bias is gonna say Unleashed fandom overall though. Oop.)

[@Sukaiba69]

Are you sure about that? Unleashed has been getting slammed since launch and only up until kinda recently did the tides begin to shift in its favor While the SAs enjoyed about a decade of praise, then got the following one of hate The only games to have consistenly remained held high are the classics and probably Gens (On a gameplay level that is) And the praise rate for Unleashed and SAs is roughly 50/50 at best, I believe what you think is Elitism is simply fans being defensive because both of those were, like it or not, at their times and styles, the peak of Sonic and if not your game hours, they atleast deserve the respect of any fan not punching down on other eras to glorify their fav

[@morganr9825]

Yeah, I've seen this kind of elitism in the Sonic community as well. Especially with the comics. Like, some fans seem to think that anything that doesn't follow the canon of the games is somehow inferior.

[@matti.8465]

This is honestly a problem that we as a fanbase need to solve. Specially nowadays that Sonic might be receiving more new fans than ever before.

[@pakboimsal8498]

Yes

[@involvedhail1788]

Yeah people in the community just need to get thicker skin

[@Andy-sj4ip]

The biggest example of elitism I saw is the Shin Megami Tensei vs Persona one. With the SMT fans growing some of superiority complex due persona being way more popular despite persona being the spinoff of the whole megami Tensei brand.

[@ctpp64]

omg the smt fanbase is the worst

[@TailsGuy72]

There's also the Yakuza and Persona fans against the Sonic fans

[@Nuh_Ozkartal]

I agree with everything in this video. Your content is just amazing. And you never fail to make me laugh XD

[@Laiser]

Adventure Era Sonic fans have become incredibly elitist and the distain towards Sonic Colours annoys me greatly. Combined elitism seems to be the Sonic fandoms signature mark, every Era people complain about the current one and praise the last. This cycle will continue unless people realise their opinions arent law. See you in 7 years when people are saying Sonic Generations is the best Sonic game the current Sonic games and their fans are bad.

[@sonicmaiden2871]

Fighting over an era of games is stupid. Don't we all like sonic at the end of the day 😅

[@SilverSpireZ]

I’ve never been a fan of Colors, but I’m not gonna bash someone for liking it. It’s just a video game, at the end of the day. I do think it’s overhated, but IMO it’s nowhere near the masterpiece some make it out to be. I think it’s easier to see the flaws in the game now that games like Forces exist and have many similarities with Colors, but that doesn’t make Colors bad. I do think it set a bad precedent for the series, but that’s not the game’s fault. It’s Sonic Team taking the wrong lessons from the game. Also, Generations is already widely considered one of the best in the series, and I’ve yet to come across someone who doesn’t like it. But maybe that’s just me…

[@Gothams_Arkham_Knight]

@@SilverSpireZ What he said ^

[@josepha4161]

tmw Unleashed fanboys keep getting off the hook for doing the exact same thing.. again (not denying Adventure fanboys doing this too, tho)

[@Sukaiba69]

I'd imagine that is because they were probably the first ones to get hatebombed Once a certain bald coffee man and the blue shirt man did their vids and emboldened Modern and prob also Classic fans to shit on the Adventure era because "omg I have to play different chars with diff gameplays or cannot hold up and boost to win whaaaaaa" (Although Amy and Big WERE kinda ass, mostly Big)

[@AK46supr]

Sonic adventure fans are becoming the new classic elitist

[@SupaDettol]

I like call of duty and sonic. Nice. We need a FPS sonic game :)

[@ilyas7ii]

No !

[@TomTopics]

yes ofc

[@AFriendRemembers]

Now... is that more or less ridiculous than the calls for a Sonic rpg from the early 2000s? Can't tell

[@bigfishafro6343]

Shadow the hedgehog 2

[@sonicmaiden2871]

In Shadow the hedgehog you shoot with guns so it's close enough

[@prosecutorwalton]

Great video, Tom! Always great to see!

[@SogonD.Zunatsu]

I don't know what most of this video's got to do with elitism. It was more about toxic fandom. Elitism in video games is saying a particular vision for a franchise is objectively better. The arguments can be made toxic but it's not necessarily the case. My concerns are with the toxic "goodenough-ists" that are just thankful to have new games of their favorite IP but turn vicious when they see people giving criticisms (i.e Pokemon, Assassin's Creed, Sonic fans ). It's not elitism, but the polar opposite.

[@mared7305]

This warning to the Sonic community is long overdue lol. The spirit of the community is dead/hollow (now), it's a walking dead identity. There's no soul to it today. I'm curious to see what happens in the next 5 years, what life will spring from the fandom or the devs themselves over time. Sad that even when a symbolic game comes out like how you covered Sonic Omens in this video, it will come with toxic fire. What of every game that'll come next (official or not) down the line?

[@pakboimsal8498]

Yes

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

@@pakboimsal8498 You're getting likes because of yourself and Sonamy/SoJ/IDW/Flynn extremists.

[@maas1208]

​@@JohnnyTheGamer Um Okay?

[@roketbuilder8839]

Amazing vid bro keep it ngl ❤️

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

Can you give an example of Black Knight eltisim/stans?

[@maas1208]

You spelled elitism wrong 🤣

[@AFriendRemembers]

See, bringing up RE8 as a series divvying itself up into sections.... I think the RE franchise hit that meltdown point when RE6 came out - and although 7 plays differently to the games before it was seen by the community as a call back to the older games by bringing the horror back - so RE7 and RE8 aren't so much dividing the community but closing a circle. But yes - I take your point - things would be better if we were capable of talking more civilly to each other online :) Great video

[@inciniumz4671]

I think the word you're searching for is "a cult of personality"

[@pugman9672]

Combined elitism is the term I have been looking for to describe my bad experiences with the sonic adventure fan base the bad apples I’ve run into are not open to debate and have shit on me for preferring the boost games.Idk if anyone else has had this problem I don’t see it talk about aside from this video

[@equinoxphantoon8974]

i just watched 2 of your videos today and "i like your funny words magic man"

[@pakboimsal8498]

Yes

[@pakboimsal8498]

Tomtopics:there are no secret rings fans sonicsta:I'm a joke to you?

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

Tom didn't know that, dummy.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer that's supposed to be a joke/meme

[@professordreadwin7959]

OK I doubt anyone has been physically assaulted for their opinion on Undertale

[@TomTopics]

Surprisingly they have. Someone at a convention who made fanart shipping certain characters together received a cookie from a “supporter”, which turned out to have needles baked into it which pierced her tongue

[@daddyinthestreetsenpaiinth9250]

@@TomTopics Holy shit WHAT THE FUCK?! IS SHE OKAY?!

[@mr.paperbag.e4853]

@@daddyinthestreetsenpaiinth9250 yeah she's alive at least. It happen like 2 or 3 years ago. I don't know if she can still chew and stuff though.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@mr.paperbag.e4853 if she couldn't well if comes to the sonic fanbases we're screwed

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

@@pakboimsal8498 You're one of the reasons why Sonic fandom is a massive mess.

[@maas1208]

6:33 sonic omens

[@pakboimsal8498]

R.I.P tomtopics Google search history he had to put himself in torture by reading fanfiction and seeing r34 artwork to do research on this video hope you could recover from that traumatizing experience but I don't expect you to.

[@pakboimsal8498]

Btw i hope you guys are happy that tomtopics is scarred for life and damn having a toxic fandom ships for a love interest for a blue hedgehog 9:45 also 12:20

[@maas1208]

His FBI agent probably bleached his eyes out

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

@@pakboimsal8498 Aren't you one of Sonamy shippers who are trying to using an excuse "ships for a love interest for a blue hedgehog"?

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer Nope

[@pakboimsal8498]

2:03 G A M E T H E O R Y

[@pakboimsal8498]

Tomtopics look at this (sonic project x love potion disaster)fan game truly disgusting and its so sick that anybody likes the game is truly perverted and the creator of this game is could've made a brilliant sprite fan game but no it had to be a perverted game for perverts

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

At least, it didn't feature Archie, SATAM, and anything related to Sega of America, which is thank goodness.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer I guess and this is probably one of the only times I agree with you

[@Zicetec2000]

I miss the Sonic fandom of the 90s, back then it was simpler times, all we had to care about is "Sonic vs Mario" Is Sonic doing better than Mario, no... why not, its the one thing Sonic was designed to do.

[@joshwillcox7141]

I think the reason that generations gets to so many people is... Character redesigns are not canon.

[@bigfishafro6343]

Holy frik you funni

[@pakboimsal8498]

1:55 so what you are saying is that you have been living since 1549 huh

[@wazzupyuwu]

honestly i am very much not all that exposed to the extreme toxicity of the sonic twitter fanbase (since i dont use twitter), but i have encountered my fair share of elitism on youtube from all sides of the internet (even in marginalized, non-fandom communities like the lgbtq+ community), and it is not fun at all. nowadays i feel like most of the toxic fandom spaces stem from millenials on twitter, and especially so when it comes to sonic. from my personal experience, younger fans of sonic are not nearly as toxic as older ones, since a lot of them are ppl who grew up having the whole internet bully the things they like because it was """cringe""" (ofc that doesn't mean we can't be or won't turn out that way, we absolutely can, especially since younger people are much more prone to influence and will learn from adults who act that way).

[@yderga8707]

Back in the early days of the birth of the internet, before the Bronies, wubba lubber szechuan nuggers, or undertale stands existed there was a little thing called Deviantart. Grown men 30+ years living in their moms basements creating hypersexual images of their OG Emofied hedgehog abomination and writing fanfics revolving around but not limited to foot.... stuff, pregnancy...... stuff, defication....... stuff, sonic being a.... toilet and getting... used.. etc. These Chad's would crawl out from their cheeto infested crusty man lairs with the power of God and anime on their side to argue about things like Amy's..... bosom size relation in games and Sonics..... part shape... if you know what I mean. (Yes these are real experiences and things I've seen growing up in the dawn of the internet.) There is nothing more grotesque, defiled or immoral than the sonic fanbase in the early 2000s im telling ya.

[@pakboimsal8498]

Yes

[@pakboimsal8498]

Tomtopics you are just on the tip of the iceberg

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

He'll expose Sonamy/Amy Rose, IDW/Flynn/Stanley/Gray, Video Game Canon, and SoJ/Sonic Team extremists like you.

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer Bruh how many times I have to tell I'm not like that anymore

[@maas1208]

​@@JohnnyTheGamer Bro have you seen what your "friend" has been doing kzbin.info/aero/PL4a3sbxTe_O55JPdzHnZP_apX13ilMX_f

[@raphaelbrown6314]

Uhhhh like sonic and the secret rings and i pretty sure there's a fandom of that one too but not that much i'm pretty sure both games fandoms i guess it's just a joke but come on the game is not that bad just decent

[@adzinco6916]

of course you'd know about elitism. the things you say in the amogus chat...

[@efrainsantiago4787]

Amogus.

[@pakboimsal8498]

SUS

[@redactedoktor]

while you have made some excellent points and have even managed to carry them with entertaining and at times even comedic content, you failed to credit the song used when censoring the sonamy art at 10:51 and now I'm sad I can't listen to it more. How dare you make such a good video and use an equally good song for a gag and just not credit it.

[@Gothams_Arkham_Knight]

Sonamy is the correct choice, sorry but I don’t make the rules.

[@nullv2.068]

Disgusting.... watching a naked blue micheal jackson bugs bunny flirting with pink minney hedgehog.... bruuuhhh

[@Gothams_Arkham_Knight]

@@nullv2.068 The other option is a chipmunk. Fucking Alvin and the chipmunks.

[@pakboimsal8498]

Hahaha!!! Baldy mcnosehair!

[@sezunemizuhana3870]

No, but good try. Sonally is canon, lol.

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

Well, FBI and CIA are watching you. What are you gonna do about it, p360?

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

I do like Black Knight but it's not one of my favorites.

[@pakboimsal8498]

Out you go

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

@@pakboimsal8498 lol

[@sonickhable]

meanwhile i think odyssey is the best ac game lol

[@zasock2]

Its me knifer the fox from discord

[@mared7305]

...What a funny video.

[@Shimakingdom]

Lol Gamerguy

[@1upGaming1up]

I can name someone who's more of a Sonic Elitist. Spax3

[@maas1208]

@@1upGaming1up wait. what ever happened to Spax3?

[@Shimakingdom]

@@maas1208 exactly

[@maas1208]

@@Shimakingdom ???

[@pakboimsal8498]

Also check out this elitist archie and satam fanboy kzbin.info/door/oBl6qFdngrMUw334486syQ give your thoughts on it in this comment

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

Aren't you elitist IDW/Flynn/Stanley/Gray/Vide Game Canon/SoJ/Sonic Team/Amy Rose/Sonamy fanbrat?

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer I'm not even that much a fan of Amy

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@JohnnyTheGamer I'm not

[@maas1208]

​@@JohnnyTheGamer Bro have you seen what your "friend" has been doing kzbin.info/aero/PL4a3sbxTe_O55JPdzHnZP_apX13ilMX_f

[@FlamesOverdrive]

First

[@pakboimsal8498]

HMM SOUNDS interesting but I sure don't care!