Fasting, Autophagy and Cell Repair - with Dr. Satchin Panda | The Proof EP 221

In Episode 221, I sit down with Dr Satchin Panda to continue The Proof’s conversation on time restricted eating.
👇 Visit The Proof website for supporting studies and the full shownotes 👇
theproof.com/podcast/
Time-restricted eating (TRE) has caused a stir on social media in recent years. Many studies on TRE are misrepresented online, with people drawing absolute conclusions that often don’t consider all the data. Dr Panda joins me in this episode to look further into TRE, with a focus on circadian rhythm.
Satchidananda (Satchin) Panda, PhD is a professor at The Salk Institute. His lab studies how circadian rhythm in metabolism is an integral part of metabolic health and longevity. He is currently investigating how temporal regulation of metabolism can prevent or reverse chronic diseases and increase lifespan in humans, building upon his preclinical animal trials. Dr Panda is very well versed in all things metabolism and circadian rhythm and brings more clarity to today’s conversation about TRE.
In this episode, we have a detailed discussion about circadian rhythms, circadian disruption, and health impacts. We discuss TRE in the context of circadian biology, blood glucose, and calorie restriction. Dr Panda also offers his advice on the optimal TRE lifestyle.
Specifically, we cover:
0:00 Intro
2:20 Circadian Rhythms
9:35 Why Circadian Disruption is a Problem
15:29 Dr. Panda’s Early Research
21:05 What Causes Sleep Deprivation
26:07 Disease & Circadian Disruption
28:59 Light Exposure
35:19 Time Restricted Eating
43:57 Optimal Eating Window
56:07 Impact on Blood Glucose
1:03:35 TRE vs Calorie Restriction
1:24:12 Addressing Concerns
1:26:52 Is Fasting Safe for Everyone?
1:35:31 Extended Fasts
1:39:00 Big Picture
1:43:14 Outro
There are plenty of actionable takeaways in this week’s episode. Dr Panda’s research is certainly opening us up to greater clarity on this topic, and his educated insights this week offer practical and useful tips that will help clear the confusion.
Connect with Dr Satchin Panda:
• Twitter: / satchinpanda
• His peer reviewed papers on Google Scholar: www.salk.edu/scientist/satchi...
• His book: The Circadian Code: www.bookdepository.com/The-Ci...
• The Circadian Diabetes Code: www.bookdepository.com/The-Ci...
• Dr Panda’s app, myCircadianClock: mycircadianclock.org/
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Enjoy, friends.
Simon
Additional resources, supporting studies:
• Dr Satchin's Peer Reviewed Papers: scholar.google.com/citations?...
• Early Time-Restricted Feeding Improves Insulin Sensitivity, Blood Pressure, and Oxidative Stress Even without Weight Loss in Men with Prediabetes [PMID: 29754952] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29754...
====
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#theproofpodcast #simonhill #drsatchinpanda #timerestrictedeating #fasting #nutrition #health

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Just to add - you really scored getting an interview w/ Satchin Panda. Way to go for the gold! Thank you from we the listeners.

[@Countauguste]

Dr. Panda brings out the truths and just not the nomenclatures.

[@spakchitown]

Simon, I really appreciate your restrained interviewing style. You look so interested that you might jump out of your chair, but you don't. That reflects maturity, professionalism and a respect for your interviewee. You also guide the conversation to keep a good flow, so it doesn't slow down. I'll have to give your channel more views.

[@debradykstra8703]

Re: the population education aspect... It seems to me to be the elephant in the room. When will I start hearing conversations about getting this information into first and secondary education in the U.S.? Had I understood this information earlier in my life, I believe it would have been easier for me to make intelligent choices along the way, thereby avoiding health issues I deal with in my 60's. In France, for instance, the people seem to know much more about healthy eating - including the timing. Their national laws appear to support this. School children may only receive organic and non-GMO food, bread makers must follow mandates about how the bread is produced and where the wheat is sourced, etc. Thank you for doing what you do to educate us. 🌞

[@happynjoyousnfree]

Yep totally agree!

[@tere13938]

Thank you so much for providing this valuable information. I really appreciate the poignant questions that help your audience change their life for the best.

[@cassandrabennett9446]

Awesome work once again Simon. I loved the part when you asked Dr Panda about healthy people following TRE and he equated it to a healthy diet in terms of health promotion and disease prevention. Great questions asked and I felt represented in many of them so thank you 😊

[@arlettasloan6453]

I wish I had heard this ever so long ago! Which is to say: thank you! There was a time me and Mom had both - just because- fallen into the habit of getting up anywhere from 4 am - 5: 30 am. and we would usually begin eating around 6:30 or 7:30 , so approx 2 hours after getting up. Then, throughout the day, we would eat small meals but maybe 1 bigger meal and it meant usually eating 3 meals, but occasionaly 2 or 4. Sometimes we'd be done eating at 11 a.m., sometimes noon or noon:30 and sometimes not until 2 p.m. On rare occasions,3 p.m. Once 4:30 p.m. but we did not enjoy that at all. It was too late and made us feel more tired and not sleep as well. During this time in our lives, we had each dropped down a few clothing sizes and we got so much done,. It felt like the food was really being digested and used for energy. But, since we also lost a lot of fat, obviously our fat was being used for energy, too. Bowel function improved, energy, skin tone, sleeping ability, muscle growth, pain receded (Fibromyalgia), thinking improved. And so what we'd do all morning is get up and get some housework or wage work done, then settle down to a small meal and watch a little bit of a show together or she'd do her thing for fun and I'd do mine. Then, repeat until done. Sometimes the work was purely intellectual and sometimes purely physical. No diet plan or eating lifestyle changes. Just what we happened to be doing. I couldn't find out why it happened that way, though. Then, I read things about reduced stress, which sort of made sense of another time I lost a lot of weight without trying; but they didn't really jibe together, nor did the last two times I lost weight, one of which was sort of trying but nevertheless it never worked when I tried it again in different variations (intermittent fasting /ketogenic diet) Well, there was also was another, but not in the same category as it was quite deliberate and I thought I knew exactly why it worked. And, I still think it had a lot of merit, but .... Right now I can look back on all those times and see that in all of them, for different reasons, I was not eating as soon as I got up, I would let hours go between meals or eat only super small meals and still let time go by between them, and I was almost always finishing eating before 6 p.m, usually before 5 p.m and often by 3 p.m. So, all the times I lost weight easily, which were also the only times I lost weight ever except by fasting - fit well within these eating time guidelines. Every single last one. But, every time I did research into it, because I was really thinking that eating before noon was a better idea than at or after noon, I would get shot down in flames. No noon is when digestion is strongest. Well, then wouldn't it make sense when thinking of circadian rhythms, too, to eat most of your food for the day before noon, and then when your body goes into the noontime digestive swing, it will already know what needs to be digested? No no ... everyone acted like I was an idiot. So, yeah, very happy to see this video!

[@SCharlesS]

Arletta - what you are doing is intermittent fasting. It isnt just when you start. It is just the window of when you are not eating which includes sleep. In your case your window is 2pm to 8am. And which by the way has always been the best method whm i first heard about fasting. But even indirectly most of my life. Sadly i cant do your timing well until i am retired.

[@eugenetswong]

Wow. That's exciting news, Arletta! Thank you for sharing.

[@beatadorain2174]

After doing 10 hour window eating for 3 months my sugar, cholesterol blood tests improved so much my doctor was really surprised.

[@Kassiusday]

Anti capitalist attitude : fasting opposes to more & more as western civilisation promotes … somehow !!

[@beatadorain2174]

Doctor Panda is the best . Love his comment on people’s opinions

[@roxana262]

Great interview, Simon! Thank you!

[@bradleythomas5350]

Wow! I loved this episode! Thank you!

[@cathyskitchenprescription500]

Great interview, Simon! Very elucidating and actionable info.

[@millersharp5443]

I subscribed immediately after the intro. Everything mentioned is the exact stuff looking for

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Dr Joel Fuhrman was one of the first people that I can recall distinguishing between the daily TRE and full scale fasting, which he suggested was something to be done less than once per year. In that context the idea of frequent short fasts like 5:2 (eg fasting on the weekend) sounds like the worst of all worlds (Dr Panda's weekly dental visit analogy).

[@karinar3647]

Amazing episode 👏🏻👏🏻 thank you so much!!

[@ghulamdastgeer9790]

It was excellent talk. I learned for the first time while I was preparing for my primary fellowship of surgery in the Royal college of surgeons of Ireland 50 years ago. It was the Physiology professor who introduced us to this amazing topic…..this is why enjoyed the talk very much specially the way professor Dr. Satchin Panda described it: it was the best.

[@arlettasloan6453]

I dd time restricted eating when I was over the age of 40, some over the age of 50. See my comment below. When I lost weight by fasting I was 17. When I lost weight for the first two times inadvertantely eating in a time restricted manner I was 37 and then 44. When I lost weight the last time inadvertently doing time restricted eating, I was 51 years old. So, I can comment on her opinoin as a woman over 40 who did time restricted eating and lost weight: It was very, very good for me!

[@eugenetswong]

Simon, thank you for getting the info on the ideal schedule plus the other 2 factors.

[@philiphynes8652]

Thank you for this. It is beyond helpful 🙏

[@kokyu]

Great content thanks both of you, very thorough. Excellent.

[@erikjanse3994]

Very interesting and very well interviewed!! Thanks!

[@ChuckFrasher]

Wonderful, thanks!

[@gsmith6881]

Thank you, really interesting. The information was communicated in a clear and concise way which made it easy to understand - filled in gaps in my knowledge and understanding.

[@chefbob67]

What a great episode, Simon! This cleared up so much for me. A great example of how The Proof podcast cuts straight to the science and answers questions that so many of us have around super hot topics, especially TRE. I'd heard Dr. Panda referred to so many times in other people's podcasts, it was great to finally hear it directly from the researcher, himself. I loved Dr. Panda's adherence to the scientific data. Not even Valter Longo was safe in this episode! -atxchef

[@ruchigera2693]

You should watch dr panda s ted talks!!

[@dtrawangan4003]

Very good explanation. This doctor see only the fact... Love what he says...

[@user-ml3ze5td5q]

O

[@marcotemes4886]

Great info, thank you very much.

[@SarahEdensOfficial]

Wonderful interview, thank you!

[@josemarianacher1592]

I have been doing TRE for a year now, and I haven't been better in my life. My TRE protocol is OMAD. 22 hours fasting and two hours eating from 5 p.m to 7 p.m. and going to sleep at 11 p.m. I got rid my sleeping pills 10 months ago and I sleep like a baby right now. I'm 54 years old and it's the first time in my life that I can mantein my weight. I think TRE it's working very well for me.

[@patriciapeever9560]

What is TRE?)

[@josemarianacher1592]

@@patriciapeever9560 Hi! I'm sorry! TRE stands for "Time restricted eating"

[@niranjanpaul2176]

@@patriciapeever9560 time restricted eating. An eating window

[@anfieldreds_1892]

@@patriciapeever9560 time restrict eating. i.e intermittent fasting .

[@anfieldreds_1892]

hi. how can you do OMAD when you have two hours of eating? do you draw that one meal out for two hours :)

[@deepaklad7979]

Excellent analysis 👏 👍

[@Myfilipinaqueenandpersianlion]

I been doing 6 hours eating window, in addition i do over 3 days water fastimg 4 times a year, and never been healthier and BTW, I am 75 and do yoga meditation and exercise daily and also walk after lunch and dinner, of course everybody’s biology different but it has been working for me!

[@funnycalicocat3690]

Good for you! I get lightheaded on the second day of fasting and it's scary. I have an inflammatory issue that would benefit from full fasting, but I just can't do it!

[@user-ry7wf3df9h]

❤more great content and practical information on how even simple choices effect our bodies

[@jaccihugo4830]

Fantastic episode

[@ruchigera2693]

I have been following this technique for less then 2 months now and I am shocked so see my waist circumference has come down by 2.5” I cannot believe it myself. This method really works. I was so tired of going to the gym and still not feeling as good as I do now! Try this technique. Even if you are skeptical. Try it for 4-6 weeks! And if u feel it s not doing it for u. Don’t continue it! You have nothing to lose!

[@Storm_Lily]

I actually do a 2-4 hour eating window depending on how I'm feeling. I'm 47 yr old female, and It has been amazing. I get around 1,500 calories just fine. I don't know why anyone would advise against it. 😊🍵🌸🤙

[@samieramohamed2467]

Every one is unique and no one size fit all. It is great you found what is best for you. But cycling make metabolism flexible. Change is in every aspect of life

[@shashikantbote2198]

8-10 is also good for some people .

[@Storm_Lily]

@@shashikantbote2198 I can see 8-10 being good for children, teens, pregnant/lactating women, heavy laborers, athletes, very active people, or those that are not insulin resistant. ✌🌸

[@LR-je7nn]

Hormones is the reason they recommend a longer time for women.

[@Storm_Lily]

@@LR-je7nn my hormones are fine with a 2-4 hour eating window. Actually they're better balanced. ✌🌸

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I appreciate the insight into something that I suspect many of us experience. That is the feeling of not being hungry in the morning, but then overeating at lunchtime. I guess we need to pay attention there, and delay brekkie, but not for too long.

[@wrrbates]

Dr Valter Longo's concern with fasting more than 12 hours had to do with gallstone formation over the long term. He is however the only person I've ever heard bring up this concern. I do 16-8 and to me the benefits far outweigh his concern even if there is validity to it, which I don't know that there is.

[@karenohanlon4183]

Valter wants people to buy his fasting mimicking diet packs. So he won't be for the straight fast or trf

[@espinosalexis]

Thanks a lot for this interview Simon. Simply amazing! Funny the way Panda did not engage with Longo's attacks to TRE. (Impossible he did not know about the years of Longo's attacks based on a very weak paper related to the formation of Gallbladder stones.) Dear Simon, could you post links to the papers mentioned in the episode. I'm specially interested in the one showing 12 hours TRE not showing benefits on humans (in response to Longo's attacks) and the new one that showed increasing longevity as mice go from caloric restriction to CR + TRE to CR + TRE circadian eating. Many thanks and, again, great job!

[@Michelle-fe3vw]

Fascinating topic thank you Simon and Satchin. So much excellent info to take in. I TRE mostly for its benefits for cancer and autophagy. Now I am not so sure🤔 .

[@Rafas216]

🤔

[@paulhamer2308]

Cancer feeds on sugar

[@rajeshasher9769]

Very good information, thank you for sharing. I'm fully invested in the benefits of both time restricted eating and following circadian cycle. In addition, would there be any benefits to restricting the number of times one eats, as in 2mad or omad?

[@marthapineda9849]

Thanks for reminding me.ok😊❤

[@KTPurdy]

Insightful discussion

[@ManpreetSingh-gz1bw]

V informative n full of good knowledge

[@SammeerSRaawat]

Thanks a ton of work I am doing 20/4 IF

[@Anna-mc3ll]

Thank you for sharing this information. One question: how is it possible that people in the Mediterranean area, who traditionally have been eating their dinner late in the evening, i.e. somewhere between 9 p.m. and 11 p.m., still have a relatively high life expectancy? And most of them don’t seem to adhere to any time restricted dietary patterns. It would be great to read your comments on this point! Kind regards, Anna

[@S7ilgar]

Life expectancy is multi factorial. According to a Canadian scientist working on life expectancy and fasting (he of course knows the work of Satchin), main factors of life expectancy are: - quality of sleep - stress management - quality of diet - fasting - social life (massive life expectancy difference between lonely people and people with large, active social circles) Time-restricted eating is only one part of the equation. There might also be other lifestyle positive habits from the people who follow the Mediterranean dietary, as I read few people along the Mediterranean sea still follow this diet. At the time it has been observed, I wouldn't be surprised their entire lifestyle was healthier, not just their diet.

[@muhammedkhan5520]

Very informative.

[@JustJulia-qt9nh]

This guy is the Indian George Clooney! 😮

[@JR764.._]

😂😂

[@johnsmith-zf1fd]

If autophagy is not good in cancer then why does the true north health centre have such good results with lymphoma?

[@litaliberis9933]

I would like an answer as well. For any cancer I assumed autophagy might be helpful

[@k.h.6991]

The research in this topic doesn't rely on autophagy. It relies on the effect of fasting in combination with chemotherapie. The chemotherapie works better after fasting.

[@k.h.6991]

Autophagy isn't the only effect of fasting.

[@srherda]

Wow, I’ve got a big question to ask. Dr. Panda is talking about how disrupting circadian rhythm’s can cause anxiety and other issues and all the time I’m thinking of my friends and family who have anxiety and depression issues and all of them have sleep issues. I’m wondering if this is a major reason for the rise of mental illness in a lot of countries? I haven’t finished the podcast yet, so maybe the answer is there already

[@DodjiSeketeli]

Actually, black coffee does raise adrenalin, which raises blood glucose, which in turn raises insulin. I am not even talking about the gastric release of acid triggered by coffee. So sadly, I think coffee does trigger the circadian clocks.

[@cadupradoo]

Thanks, Simon, for this series of fasting, TRE, and else. Great work as always! I miss one question in these episodes, almost in the same direction of the "silly" question you made about a fit, active, biomarker healthy person eating on a restricted window. How important is for a tri athlete or ultra endurance athlete to follow this? I mean, for someone that does the first and main workout at 6.30-7 am but also finishes a mild/recovery workout at 7pm, and is a fully wfpb, avoids to be seating for long periods during the day, gets 7h of sleep regularly (although could "live" with less than that), great HOMA-IR, LDL less than 50mg/dl, and all other markers great, etc etc. Is it crucial to get this 12h window of that person or a 14h eating window is OK? The hardest part is to not eat as soon as waking up while getting lots of hours of sleep. For that to be possible, I'd need to train fasted.. Which shouldn't be great at least for the harder workouts. On the other hand, doing light workouts fasted the easy days and the harder ones fed (in a longer eating window) other days would disrupt the rhythm too, I believe... So many variables!

[@cadupradoo]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thanks so much for the attention, my friend! Like I always say, you were one of my inspirations that made my me change my career Will check back that episode!

[@rajdialnandram5676]

Could the invention of electricity be the màin cause for disrupting the rhythm . Seeing we can literally turn night into day.

[@j777494949]

Low light intensity in stores and at home during the evening is also a potentially hazardous for the elderly and the frail

[@laramenon862]

Dr Valter Longo is not supportive of less than 12 h fasting because of the higher incidents of gallbladder stones formation among those ho adhere to the shorter period of fasting. It not just his opinion I guess. Can we have clarification on that?

[@Rafas216]

Valter longo quer vender aquela comidas esquisitas dele... Jejum tem que ser de no mínimo 13..14 horas.

[@janeschade7875]

So should I not fast from 12 to 6 PM every day and skip breakfast or should I open my window a couple hours after I wake up and close it as late as I can towards the 3,4,5 O’clock hour I’m confused now

[@0004W]

If breakfast at 9am then what is the right time for lunch ?

[@irmareitz701]

Please do ADF video

[@dr.arvindkumar1823]

In Vedic Culture in India our sages have been practicing one meal a day since 1000 yrs . n even in height of Icy Himalayas without clothes Yogis live for Hundreds of Years ......now science have connected the dots how it helps....

[@plurabelle5]

What nonsense. I hope you're not actually a Dr, even a PhD.

[@vejay369]

I practice NOMAD diet( Nightly One Meal A Day) It's benefits are insane

[@ronhuffman7973]

Asked an answered, next question.

[@arvindchahal7009]

One question: since we are eating one full meal a day, isn't there a tendency to overeat in this case? Overeating cannot be called healthy.

[@johnmortimerjbmfitness7753]

Not if fat adapted.

[@mariahcochrane1428]

Buddhist monks have been eating one meal, before Solar noon, for over 2500 years. I have been part of the extended lay community of Abhayagiri Buddhist monastery, a monastery in the Thai Forest tradition of Ajahn Chah, for over 25 years. The new monks take a bit to figure out how to take the right amount of food, so as not to loose too much body fat. Of course the issue is getting enough protein, so as to not loose too much muscle mass. I learned Monks are a practical lot. I learned from my twenty something son, that Ajahn Ñaniko, the abbot a dear family friend, the Ajahn told him to pack on as much muscle as possible before he ordains, because it's possible to maintain muscle as a monk, but difficult to build it. Also, best to avoid debt rather than plan to work it off before ordaining ( monks must be debt free to ordain) My son took both to heart . Peabody Conservatory list a baritone and digital music composer. My son is packing on the muscle and a few months from being a PGE lineman, which is a 4 am rise time and 7:30 bedtime. He is aims for an 8 hour eating window, and supplements with grass fed whey powder and canned sardines to get two extra 20g - 40g servings of protein in between his lunch and early dinner.

[@jec2006]

30:00 No bright lights 2-3 hr before sleep. No more than 40wat lights

[@ManpreetSingh-gz1bw]

Wud like a lecture on gut health

[@Rafas216]

Wud wud?

[@witterla]

I worked 25 years as a night shift RN 7p to 7a. Can the damage be undone? How?

[@quilava9994]

I totally love and feel better eating on a 10am-7pm eating window. But sometimes I play basketball with Friends till 9:30pm and I don't know if I should eat a snack after that or just continue the fast... Any suggestions?

[@pingwonghon525]

continue the fast

[@pingwonghon525]

just drink some hot water afterwards

[@57auxmoines]

Great information! I always am pained to hear about non human animal testing. It should be only done with someone who gives consent. Compassion over intellectual curiosity. Well being for all beings.

[@katieforeman7947]

Gallstones! Dr. Longo objected to fasts longer than 12 hours on basis of increased risk of gallstones in humans.

[@bjornbecker5574]

If a eating window of 12 hours is ok than Dr. Panda seems to ignore the point of Autophagy! For social life and family of working people it fits better to skip breakfast instead dinner!

[@ladybakiza8278]

Like Dr. Panda, I don't agree with dr. Dr. Valter Longo as well. I never believed in fast mimicking....

[@austincrain4919]

About to finish up nursing school & become a night shift cardiovascular ICU nurse 😂 about to mess up my circadian rhythm 😵‍💫

[@eugeniebreida1583]

You have the qualifications to get a good DAY job. It won’t be long before those who. are well qualified will refuse ‘shift’ work. Please get ahead of this curve! ❤️

[@larrylaye9276]

BAD FOR HEART HEALTH,SERIOUSLY

[@annemccarron2281]

​@@eugeniebreida1583Somebody has to take care of patients at night. As a retired nurse, I can tell you that new graduates do not usually get day jobs in a hospitals. They can work in a doctor's office for less pay. Most new grads want more excitement that you see in a doctor's office.

[@patriciapeever9560]

TRE MEANS ?

[@supersue_cleobruni]

Time restricted eating

[@peouspaul1258]

Eat between sun rise and sun set .. is best for health ..

[@Atrimurthy]

ఇంతతెలుసమ్మా మీకు అద్భుతంఇకజగన్ ఓడటంఖాయమే ఇంతచైతన్యమా? అమోఘం. అమోఘం,ఆషశ్చర్యం.

[@cryptoearning3799]

I eat from 11am- 7pm and i do 16hr fastning every day. I stoped non veg oil & compny packed foods. Adding fruits green vegetable its life changing. I hope i will defect my ill & eventually i will get healthy life back ❤❤ i pray god🌸🙏

[@jerrywest7068]

Just add MCT to your morning coffee.

[@ClassicJukeboxBand]

Every expert talks about science based evidence. The reality is that most info is not very good unless it is evolution based science, not just science.

[@ClassicJukeboxBand]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes, makes sense. We have to test hypothesis to see if the science is actually testable and repeatable. If you think about it, it's what happens that is the proof, that a theory is correct.

[@menelikmichael9334]

There is contradiction here. If your last meal is around 7pm then you can not go to sleep before midnight which means the circadian rhythm is disrupted. I think we should be capable to consume our daily meal within a five hours window.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

I don’t think Satchin recommends 5 hours of no food before bed. More like 2-3 hours

[@user-uh8zu8xm3b]

I have to come to the defense of Valter Longo! Simon stated that Valter said he doesn’t recommend fasting over 12 hours. I have watched Valter speak many many times. He usually recommends from 12 to 14 hours. He does not say there is no health benefits, he says that if you extend the fast longer that most people can’t do it very long, compliance is low. He is just trying to be a realist.

[@priyakulkarni9583]

Doesn’t apply to all 😅😅😅 diabetic prediabetics thin malnourished slum people it is dangerous to fast 😅😅😅😅

[@happynjoyousnfree]

What woman wants to eat salad in 4 hours of a day and run a marathon??? Dr. Panda seriously needs to get out more. The question was about women over 40 like myself at age 61. I don't plan on running any marathons, would prefer at least a 10-hour window, and would much rather eat steak 🤣