Why Halo will Fail if it Follows Trends

[@FavynTube]

This was another older idea I had that I recently put together. Hopefully it has some interesting nuggets for you all to enjoy. I have another major project in the works so stay tuned for more! Once again thank you all for the support.

[@quincygaming9529]

@@jaydenharrison1436 Id rather have him put out vids when they're ready and he feels good about them

[@AugustMediaHD]

@@quincygaming9529 Agreed. Favs specialty is quality.

[@CP-uw4ts]

Ya see warzones numbers? Fortnite is dying and warzone helped.

[@CP-uw4ts]

Old halo was sci-fi counter strike.

[@CP-uw4ts]

Halo has the potential as a universe to be on par with star wars, that means expanding its rule set to include more than a few gameplay systems. Also again I tell you, Doom eternal has only proved halo 5 right, having platforming, meat hooks, dashing and dodging and uses lore to justify it's gameplay. I find it funny you conviently left doom eternal out of that compilation.

[@newrecru1t]

_"Where even if you only appealed to 10% of the group, you would get all of them"_ Case in point, For Honor is the only game of its kind. Despite many of its ingrained flaws, and several issues that can make it unbearable to play, it's still genuinely unique. For a game of its kind, it will never quite thrive in the same vein as other genres, yet it stands on its own and has retained that *"10% audience"* simply because no one else has replicated it.

[@aadi.p4159]

No but really chivalry was also like that

[@tainted8899]

@@aadi.p4159 chivalry plays nothing like for honor

[@duck8206]

Cool to see someone mentioning For Honor. I am one of that 10% that still plays For Honor. Dunmaglass

[@imatrollaccount5044]

For Honor is fun. Not so much that 4v4 stuff though, so annoying. Its a game of whose got more friends. And not legitament friends, just in the moment. Here's how it goes, I spawn, run in to save my friend, friend dies half way there, now its me vs four other players, because the other ones finally respawned and are on their way, but I die and this starts all over . 2v2 is a solid match.

[@duck8206]

@@imatrollaccount5044 I rarely play 4v4. Smaller fights is where For Honor's combat shines.

[@matts4184]

In reference to when you said you'd rather have a game where 10 people say the loved it than have 90 people who just like it... With Halo 2 and Halo 3 they had 90 people who LOVED it. They shouldn't have strayed from that.

[@Jamarvious_]

@9ine9ine1ne stoopid well those same “40 year old fans” have been playing past Halo games for 6 years.

[@able.3566]

"The only BR we are interested in is Battle Rifle..."

[@jonatinturstin4932]

Would definitely play a halo battle royale tho

[@rickybe]

The old fans would agree with you but they want to tap into the newer market also. We will get both so its all good

[@stormbringer7773]

@@jonatinturstin4932 You know when Infinite drops, depending on the Forge maps we get, someone's gonna make a Battle Royale game mode and it's gonna blow the hell up.

[@stormbringer7773]

@@jonatinturstin4932 You know when Infinite drops, depending on the Forge maps we get, someone's gonna make a Battle Royale game mode and it's gonna blow the hell up.

[@Brawler_1337]

Favyn actually has a good video on battle royale in Halo and how it could be a really good thing.

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Share this on every platform you have! Favyn is the truth.

[@denimdracula5506]

Yo I seen you in hiddenxperia’s stream!

[@cesruhf2605]

Favyn: "I am truth" call of duty/apex/enhanced mobility players: "you must be silenced"

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Leif MJ Glad to know I’m memorable haha,I love the Halo community,but HiddenXperia and Favyn are my main guys. Thanks for the comment friend,see you ‘round.

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Space doge I couldn’t have said it better myself haha.

[@Hot18Shot]

He seems to be the only Halo KZbinr I ever agree with 100%. Act Man's great but I sometimes (but very rarely) disagree with him. LNG I have plenty to disagree with, but Favyn I always agree with to a large degree without fail. He is far more vocal but he also has so many logical examples and angles to back up him arguments.

[@enragedcow2856]

I knew this is how I felt about halo and where it's going, but I could not put it into words quite right, and Favyn did just that, amazing

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

He should be way more popular as he understands the series more than most KZbinrs i've seen.

[@tantrum8216]

@@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur i know. this guy seriously spoke for me. i keep hearing that halo is old, dead, and that the story is terrible compared to other games like fortnite and warzone. i'll definitely have to link them the video, and hope they can bear to sit thru a 14 minute long video.

[@wickedweedle]

i like the respect he has for others opinions as well. i actually disagree with him on most things and i loved halo 4 but the way he words how he feels makes me get where he is coming from. And thats the kind of maturity you never seem to get from the Halo community today. i can actually respect and understand how he feels because of this.

[@ethantwoyoungmen1261]

Boi, overwatch is also punishing. Don't hop on the hate train for the game

[@imixupwords5340]

@@ethantwoyoungmen1261 Yeah punishing for the wrong reasons.

[@KOBULT92]

Ugh, that GDC clip made me nauseous. As soon as you started talking about games not compromising for a large audience I instantly thought of the SOULS series. Then sure enough, a few seconds later I see asylum demon on screen lol. Perfectly put man, I wish halo post-3 would have evolved the way the souls series evolved; by catering to the audience that was already there, maintaining its identity, and making an uncompromised game. Why have a lesser version of COD when you could have a good focused halo?

[@ldib7798]

Lethargic/Kitten Greed. It’s what motivates most in the industry..

[@IzakD8]

Reach had better gameplay than 3.

[@denimdracula5506]

DragonTesteeZ 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@QuankyFlacidFilms]

@@IzakD8 lmfao no

[@Pansycacke]

And you ignore how the rest of the GDC is an in-depth explanation of how Spartan Abilities work within the game and how they preserve what Halo is while adding another layer of mastery.

[@lotgc]

I used to get annoyed when playing halo, especially halo 3, because it felt like no matter how hard I tried, how fast I could react, or how accurate my shot was, I'd always lose, getting about a .5 kd. I hated how slow it felt to move through the levels, especially on btb, and I hated how long the ttk was for every weapon, they felt like throwing dish sponges at people. Then one day, I realized something very important; halo is not COD in any way, shape, or form. I began to appreciate halo for what it was. I began to think about how simple the game's mechanics were, and how to use the tools given to me, and I began to test my ideas, and within the next game, I became a true monster, just like those who pummeled me match after match, and in many cases outclassing them entirely. Even now, I'm almost always at the top of the leaderboard. Now, Halo is one of my favorite games, though it was always (the game that really got me into gaming as a whole was Reach) I found an even greater appreciation for the franchise, and I really hope to see infinite have a multiplayer more like those of old, especially halo 1, because that one is my favorite.

[@greenbean2222]

What a wonderful comment.

[@skam9177]

I went through the same thing ! I use to hate Classic Halo because I had the mindset of a call of duty player but then I realized that it wasn't cod and started playing it how it is supposed to. And now, I too dominate everyone in my game and Halo 3 became my favorite game EVER.

[@michaelhenry3234]

Yep, Halo 1 doesn't get as much love as it should. Despite its simplicity, I love Halo 1's multiplayer. I miss those game nights with friends.

[@Angel-Azrael]

Halo evolved in a good way till Halo 3. Then started changing too much. Hope it's back to the roots. No abilities and gimmicks

[@jantran5349]

because Halo is not competitive game, just a casual game where any1 can kill each other in split-screen. Jumping in vehicle together and dive down the cliff.

[@robertnewman4854]

One thing I don't get is that CS:GO is among the most popular games today and it has very "old fashion" mechanics... the idea that halo couldn't do the same if given the chance just seems painfully flawed.

[@TheDragonfriday]

Ah yes very interesting idea, few things could tie the game like trading skins for money, game is free since last year, on pc umm a lot more

[@kittyrules]

Halo's favorite trend to follow rn is having disastrous launches Edit: this was a meme dudes plz dont argue :P

[@sutanuranjanchakladar9586]

Idk MCC PC launches are going pretty smooth...

[@Speeff]

@@sutanuranjanchakladar9586 Reach and CE launched well on PC. Halo 2 is filled with bugs though

[@bernardoblanchetramirez6032]

SaTan_U because it is going very slowly and they are being veeery careful. Plus the MCC already existed in the Xbox One and the original release was awful.

[@sutanuranjanchakladar9586]

@@Speeff I haven't seen any bugs yet... I've been playing non-stop since yesterday... 0 bugs till now

[@sutanuranjanchakladar9586]

@@bernardoblanchetramirez6032 yeah that's what I know... I don't think they have done anything wrong since Halo 5 launch... it's been pretty fine so far

[@50centpb7]

If there's one trend I do hope 343 is keeping tabs on, it's Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I just hope the idea might be sparked in there minds that a modern shooter can ditch all the "expected features" of every FPS that came out after Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and still be highly successful.

[@christopherdelacruz9728]

The original modern warfare or

[@50centpb7]

@@christopherdelacruz9728 Yes, the very first. It set the standard for how modern FPS mechanics were to be defined, and more or less every major FPS that's come out since has been building off of its basic formula, with a few exceptions. Before then, most FPS games where building off the Doom/Quake formula in the same way, which includes Halo.

[@shadowguardian3612]

@@50centpb7 maybe they could do somethnig similar to crysis with mjolnir modes or just do classic/modified reach based game

[@Filip1613]

Doom 2016 yes. Doom eternal, not so much. They'll just keep thruster and clamber thinking that's what made eternal good. Instead I'd argue they should look at half life and actually understand that halo is a sandbox shooter at it's core. People love to claim it's an arena shooter, but it's not really. The golden triangle of halo is in direct opposition of calling halo an arena shooter. Re introduce equipmet from halo 3 but make them much more interesting with crazy ideas. Gravity pushes and pulls, portals and other shit would fit halo much more than sprint ever will.

[@e2rqey]

Knowing 343 they will take all the wrong lessons from Doom/Doom Eternal

[@that1dudewhoplayz843]

Anyone notice that 343's halo is much like that of Disney's star wars? *Halo Reach and Star wars Revenge of the sith* : Orginal creators sell their creation to a different company after they finish it with a prequel *Halo 4 and Star wars Force Awakens* : continues the original entry but makes major changes (Disney making Anakin Skywalker's legacy pointless/343 Industries trying to mimic Call of Duty and redisgning everything) *Halo 5 and Star wars The Last Jedi* : divides the community into two fanbases *Halo Infinite and Star wars Rise of Skywalker* : falls back on using nostalgia/familiar concepts in an attempt to redeem themselves

[@halinaqi2194]

Infinite isnt looking too good either...

[@j19aiden91]

I wouldn't count on sprint being removed, but it would be a nice surprise. I know campaigns don't get much attention these days, but Halo really needs a good single-player experience to help stand above its competition

[@imixupwords5340]

What you mean? Campaign gets tons of attention nowadays God of War, Spiderman, Batman, Uncharted, Red Dead, Sekiro, and so many more.

[@Hokiebird428]

Follower 8 - Interesting that none of the games in that list are first-person shooters. Doom certainly belongs in that list, why isn’t Halo in that list I wonder?

[@j19aiden91]

@@imixupwords5340 I was only referring to Halo single-player. The games you listed are great single-player experiences and are worth the notice, but modern Halo hasn't lived up to any of its potential. There's not enough to meet the mark like the other games you listed. Modern Halo's single-player only stands out because its inferior

[@imixupwords5340]

@@Hokiebird428 Personally not really a fan of Doom I like the gameplay just not that in to the Intensity, pls don't crucify me for my Heresy. Well yeah I mean Halo really isn't in a good spot when it comes to story right now, Halo Wars 2 patched it up a bit but it was only a light fix.

[@imixupwords5340]

@@j19aiden91 True really hope Infinite revitalize's the brand.

[@samuel-sevenstophost6642]

I really hope they dont follow the "battle royale" trend for the sake of battle royale. If they make battle royale their new flagship mode,I'll be nervous.

[@imixupwords5340]

I really think they're expanding on Warzone probably going for a Battlefield/Planetside 2 style game mode.

[@Julianrocker200]

Follower 8 I would love that

[@djolay421]

They announced a while back that they aren’t interested in making a battle Royale

[@UnfunnyFigs]

and I quote from Twitter "the only BR we're interested in is the battle rifle"

[@winsrodchurchill7584]

Why are you desagree with and Halo BR? I just want to know your reasons

[@decommando1805]

Halo has always been arana shooter, where all players start out evenly to fight one another for better weapons and map control, with some vehicles for the more open bigger maps. That's what made halo fun and stand out from all the other shooters at the time. Nice video.

[@MajoraZ]

Except Halo didn't invent or set the trends for Arena Shooters: It was FOLLOWING the trends set by other FPS franchises at the time in the late 90's like Quake and Unreal Tournament. I agree that loadouts break what makes Halo Halo, but there's also nothing fundamentally new or wrong with Halo incorporating ideas from other FPS titles provide they mesh well with the core design principals in the series, and I would argue at least SOME of Halo 5's new abilities do do that: Thrust, slide, and hover for example synergize very well with Halo's longtime emphasis on platforming in it's level design.

[@AmrSabbagh]

Halo 5 had the points you're making here, they just added to them

[@Garthorium]

@@MajoraZ The difference is choice. The game market was hardly as fleshed back then as it is right now. There are a million games to choose from. Back then, not so much. You could gravitate to any game without losing too much time in the others you played.

[@decommando1805]

@@MajoraZ Maybe not for PC players, but for console players it was something new & playing with other people in halo 2 online multiplayer.

[@decommando1805]

@@AmrSabbagh Halo 5 plays more like a twitch shooter.

[@tris0117]

This seems like a good counter to Ekharts Ladders video on battle royale and glad you brought up these points. I don't see halo needing trends and glad you put that into a solid argument. Hopefully, 343 has listened enough to have learned by now...

[@wet_weather_imp]

Tha pression Oh that video......

[@GeminiTigur]

EckhartsLadder had some good points. I’m definitely not against a Battle Royale but also if it was the main focus of Halo infinite I’ll be disappointed. Halo was never a trend setter; it just perfected what older games did in the past. I just want a good Halo game and hopefully 343 gives us that.

[@wet_weather_imp]

Damian Ortiz The problem was that his whole argument revolved around the idea that because BR’s are popular, Halo must have it, not because he thought BR would actually benefit Halo

[@GeminiTigur]

Alex Day I totally agree with that. His initial argument definitely felt that way. I’m glad EkhartsLadder made a second video to clarify what he meant.

[@sergeantmarcusstackerM1903]

I swear he was high on that first video

[@oscararias6448]

I really hope someone from 343i watches this video. Great video Favyn.

[@MetalMike56]

even if they did Halo Infinite is 97% complete by now and its down to testing it. Core movement or gameplay can't be changed now.

[@DOOMLORDHOKAGE]

MetalMike56 Eh they can remove sprint and increase movement speed at this stage lol unless they designed key parts of the game around sprinting.

[@akionyx7606]

This comment section didn’t age well welp next year fellas

[@InternalAffairs244]

@@akionyx7606 Joe Staten, take it away my guy.

[@shepardcommander6811]

Bungie "we make trends" 343 "lets see what's popular today"

[@peterleventhal6983]

To be fair, Bungie made reach and that game also followed trends.

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Peter Leventhal It did sprint like no other game has since and I’m not sure what trends you mean,I can’t think of any.Armor abilities and bloom pretty much is what made it not play like Halo anymore,but at least sprint had you sacrifice the other ability in that game.Reach is so flawed i will agree,but that’s a different topic.

[@MajoraZ]

The only thing Halo truly innovated was party based matchmaking and matchmaking hoppers in Halo 2. "Classic Halo" was itself following trends previously set by the Arena Shooters of the 90's, and by media such as Starship Troopers and Aliens for aesthetic influences. The idea that Halo never used to follow trends or set them just isn't true. I don't like loadouts in Halo and would agree it violates the spirit of the series, but there's also nothing fundamentally new or wrong with Halo incorporating ideas from other FPS titles provide they mesh well with the core design principals in the series, and I would argue at least SOME of Halo 5's new abilities do do that: Thrust, slide, and hover for example synergize very well with Halo's longtime emphasis on platforming in it's level design.

[@Cleggnasty]

@@MajoraZ How about groundbreaking controller layouts to make an FPS work on a console? People forget that before Halo, it was 007 and perfect dark and they had pretty bad controls and limitations with not having 2 joysticks. They are great games for what they were but Halo brought so many options for camera controls, inverted, default, legacy, southpaw, and legacy southpaw. How about having some of the first systemlink options for a shooter (local play) with up to 16 people. How about its groundbreaking campaign that had an open feel to it that left you immersed? How about its dual wielding where you could shoot both guns individually? Games before it that dual wield fired at the same time. Bungie did so much more than what I brought up, so to say that only thing was MM, you are dead wrong.......

[@brna00]

@@peterleventhal6983 Reach was a spin off, and the last Halo Bungie would make, they had more freedom because of that Halo 4 felt more like Reach 2, instead of a sequel of Halo 3

[@MrLolza69]

Best example is Counter-strike. It is unique in its mechanics and hasn't changed them in 20 years. And people go to cs because it offers something that other shooters don't. You don't see cs needing to add sprinting and sliding do ya?

[@OmegaF77]

The need jetpacks lol. And ground pound.

[@lordywashere]

That's a completely different genre

[@Gbag34]

Welp, this aged well.

[@hrthrhs]

Yep. Especially when you realise the only reason Infinite has been regarded as the best 343 Halo, is because it is the most like classic Halo out of all the 343 Halos - stripped most of the enhanced mobility, classic art style, evolved the sandbox, returned to a Halo, Chief's armour design, a friendly Cortana, a Halo-ish soundtrack.

[@MoYceyYDnB]

Halo CE - 5.5 Million. Halo 2 - 8 Million. Halo 3 - 14.5 Million. Halo Reach - 9.5 Million Halo 4 - 9 Million Halo 5 - ~6 Million Halo was in tremendous growth until the release of Halo Reach. Halo started its downfall the moment it took features from other games. (Source: VGcharts) I can’t believe this is even an argument.

[@Filip1613]

Halo 5 probably made less than halo CE if you take inflation and cost of production and shit into consideration.

[@spengebabswagpants6768]

The Xbox one did sell like shit though.

[@InterloperBob]

@@spengebabswagpants6768 the original Xbox wasn't a top seller either, and most of the people who bought it did so for Halo CE.

[@InterloperBob]

@@Filip1613 So true. Halo CE had virtually no budget. The multiplayer was put together in a week by 3 guys with zero extra budget.

[@jaydenharrison1436]

Spengebab Swagpants The only reason Xbox 360 was so successful was because of halo. Xbox one failed because of how bad Halo 5 is. You can literally search on google ‘’why did the Xbox one fail and the first thing that pops up is Microsoft’s failure to release any solid exclusive games.

[@Anthr0pomorphism]

This video aged like fine wine 👌🍷

[@aidanorourke1631]

Aaannnddd, halo has followed all the trends again in infinite

[@MuscledRMH]

Halo Infinite needs to have its own soul and direction that is about delivering an unique experience that is true to Halo's roots. If 343 manages to deliver that in combination with a complete content packed launch product than they already have a successful launch product. A complete launch product that is expanded through monthly new free content updates is ALWAYS going to perform better and be liked more than a game that launches as barebones as Halo 5 and takes over a year to be a complete and content packed product. So far, Halo Infinite is bringing the soul of Halo in terms of the art direction. It's good to hear they are also bringing back a Spartan Customization system inspired by Reach. Let's hope this positive trend continues.

[@gascan7333]

This is a really good opinion piece. Thanks to Chris Ray Gun for the recommendation.

[@yaboy8846]

Always stumps me that you're not more popular. Your insight and ideas are exactly what Halo needs right now.

[@FavynTube]

Haven't been consistent. Gonna make a run at it and see how it goes

[@doomer604]

@@FavynTube Just please don't feel like you need to pump out multiple videos a week and sacrifice quality to do it. Your videos are well made and that's what I like about them.

[@Filip1613]

No what halo needs is another halo game lmao.

[@TheChadPad]

Favyn we need you man. I will share the shit out of you

[@WildArtichokes]

@@doomer604 Unfortunately that's exactly what he would need to do to satisfy the algorithm gods

[@fcukugimmeausername]

9:20 This is basically what happened with Demon Souls. Demon Souls was a massive failure on launch. It took years for it's core group to 'form' and begin to attract other players with word of mouth.

[@contagiousstorm]

Doom Eternal is a good example of success while sticking to it's roots.

[@meurum2561]

Well it did add some new quirks compared to its previous games

[@bobbybob6221]

@@meurum2561 exactly my point. This is exactly what 343 needs to do. They don't need to go straight back to classic halo and they don't need to copy CoD. Classic halo isn't bad WHATSOEVER but we've played it for years. I don't like the safe options of Call of Duty clone or just pure classic halo.

[@Loganomix4]

Yea but doom eternal is about beating the game and playing a 1 v 3 mode and that’s not competitive the game doesn’t have longevity and replay ability

[@NFS0038]

I actually would have preferred if Doom Eternal added less new abilities. I especially think the air-dash is unnecessary and was added to follow trends. Doom 2016 feels so much faster and fluid despite not having the dash. I think if they wanted to keep the mechanic of breaking lock on and dodging, they could have just turned it into a dodge/sidestep with like 1/4 the range of the dash and make it so you can't spam it. Then if they increased base player speed it would feel intense, like Doom 2016. I also didn't like how you have to manage so many cooldowns and abilities, it felt less like I was using weapons and more like I was playing an mmo using hotkeys. It was less visceral in the sense that I felt more disconnected with the gameplay. Besides that, the presentation was spectacular and they really added lots of enemy types, and seemed like they were able to throw more enemies at you at once, which was great.

[@alexsmistakes7975]

@@Loganomix4 as someone with over 70 hours in battle mode I have to disagree, the matches require the slayer to be at the top of their game and the demons to communicate and work together, any mistake will lead to a loss. It may seem nish but it's started growing a dedicated and competitive following. There are a lot of things to learn and even more to master if one wants to be successful in Battlemode

[@Dalvory]

Choosing what to put in your game is like choosing tags for your KZbin video. If you just use all of the most popular tags, then you will only get crumbs of the viewer-base due to sharing the tag with hundreds of other videos. But if you use a good tag that isn't as popular and trending, you aren't sharing that tag with nearly as many people. It's like deciding whether you want a crumb of a much larger cookie, or a smaller yet whole cookie all to yourself. That's the way the cookie crumbles. If your game doesn't have all of these mechanics that have become expected from modern FPS titles, then sure, you'll miss out on gripping a that audience that'll leave your game in 2 weeks anyways, but you'll attract a good majority of another audience that don't feel like they've been being catered to. So your game will be almost all they have to satisfy their preferences. Halo was the king of its own demographic, and then it shafted that demographic only for table scraps of other audiences.

[@namelessstranger1270]

343i: Damn, I am going to ignore all of this and have a disastrous game launch.

[@dutchpotato3557]

Titanfall 2 is one of my favourite shooters of all time. If you were to ask anybody what they would want from one of the big fps games that come out every year, titanfall 2 had it. An amazing single player experience, in depth fast paced multiplayer with lots of modes, all dlc was free, micro transactions where all cosmetic and incredibly consumer friendly, a low skill floor where new players could still contribute and feel good by killing grunts and working towards their titan each match without feeling frustrated and a insanely high skill ceiling for players who enjoy depth and mechanics. Yet despite all that and despite being pretty far from a “generic” first person shooter, it was completely squashed by battlefield 1 coming out a week earlier. Because despite the fact that I think titanfall 2 is the better game, you just can’t beat these yearly franchise shooters at their own game.

[@Sanya6496]

Titanfall 2 has soul. That's why people love the game.

[@EmilZdi2]

It's the only "major" FPS that I've really poured my heart and soul into, and I haven't even played its multiplayer. Titanfall 2 could've redefined the FPS genre as we know it today (Infinite Warfare is pretty much influenced by it) but the bigshots at EA decided to throw it into the bin and give the stage to BF1 instead. I mean, BF1 isn't that bad per se, but Titanfall 2 is one of the most original AAA FPS titles that I've played in the past decade since Halo 3 came out

[@chozochiefxiii3298]

This video is an eye opener, I had fallen away from Halo over the past couple years. And Doom eternal spoiled me in terms of intense fun fps gameplay, and I was blindly wishing some of its Elements would find it's way to Halo, and with the demo for halo Infinite, my wishes did come true and I'm excited for the game. But on the other hand, as a current student in game design and trying to gather my thoughts and ideas on potential projects I want to make, I find myself looking back and thinking on the original Halo trilogy, and making an fps game inspired by it, the focus on sandbox Elements and map design. But I have my own ideas to try and give it a vision and identity of its own. Rewatching these videos really put a lot of things into perspective for me. Thank you for challenging my current perspective and showing me a new one. I'm hopeful to see more analysis from you in the future Favyn.

[@GlowingGoldGames]

That GDC clip made me shake with anger I can't believe this shit.

[@OmegaF77]

Watch the entire thing and you'll have a stroke.

[@jmiuit]

tbf that was back in 2016. hopefully they had a change of heart since then

[@Hokiebird428]

Such an amazingly quotable video 3:42 - Following a trend means imitating something that is established 4:55 - Halo already _was_ distinct. [Classic Halo] already stood out, it was already loved, and successful and unique. 6:00 - The best chance you have of bringing in new players and expanding an audience would be to give them something they don't already have. 6:53 - If you attempt to appeal to the majority, you become one of dozens of games they can choose between, and [ ] it's no easy feat to make them choose you. 7:23 - "Classic" Halo never failed! It changed at its peak. 7:42 - Those ten people who loved it aren't going anywhere, and unfortunately, we have a gaming industry that would prefer the opposite. 8:20 - [F]ocus groups only give you surface-level feedback. (Market research is bullshit; you need to have experienced experts on your team!) 9:00 - Some of the best, most influential games of this generation would most likely perform _horribly_ in a focus group. 12:34 - Halo [is] not only [ ] unique, but it _is_ accessible! (Why the hell did they try to make it more accessible?) 13:49 - If you're following trends, yeah, you may not be the same as the previous Halo game, but now you're just the same as everything else. 13:57 - I really think Halo would honestly stand out more if it was more like itself. (You're goddamn right.) One note about 8:20 - I saw a video a while back from BDobbins about trends in the video game industry, and he referenced a case study from one of the devs of the Red Faction franchise. Basically what happened is that all of the volunteers they got for the case study were Call of Duty players, and every single one of them complained that the game wasn't like Call of Duty. 'I get tons of kills in Call of Duty, but I can't kill anything in this game. The problem must not be me, it must be the game. Make it more like Call of Duty.' Did you know about this case study? Because I think you'd be interested in reading about it if you hadn't already.

[@asteelopaparazzi1300]

2:03 R.I.P. Crouch walking to disapear from the radar Halo 5 is too fast paced to crouch walk anymore and the maps don't provide adequate sneaky areas

[@brandonjohnston7757]

Really though! I actually had a match in MCC Halo 3 a while ago where I got great use out of it. I was playing on high ground, and I went through the pipe in the hole of the main building. I managed to flank and kill an enemy easily because they didn't know I was there.

[@alexfrost2799]

I disagree with that. I do it all the time in every Halo, Halo 5 included, and I still catch people by surprise. The trick is finding the right path to sneak, not the speed of the movement

[@rickygforce4217]

I'm a classic Halo fan, but I have to disagree. if anything, I've crouched way more often in 5 than 3

[@asteelopaparazzi1300]

@@alexfrost2799 Thats okay I'm wrong on that one. I honestly haven't played much Halo 5 tbh.

[@SevenStopGaming]

I enjoy Halo 5’s multiplayer but it just doesn’t feel like Halo to me

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Thank you!

[@areebmasoodi8932]

Then again 2 differs so much from 1 that you can say it doesn't feel like halo either. Same can be said about 3 and 4. They are all so different and personally that's what I like about Halo. Each game is unique in its own way.

[@alexfrost2799]

@@areebmasoodi8932 I personally agree. It's this mindset that makes me say 'I don't get what you're talking about' to people that say 'Halo 4 and 5 aren't Halo'.

[@rickygforce4217]

@@alexfrost2799 The only difference is that despite Halo 2's departure from Halo CE's combat it still retained a sense of simplicity to the mobility and flow, and the maps/art style still retained a similar aesthetic. The difference between the Halo CE/2/3 and Halo Reach/4/5 experience is worlds apart to that between CE and 2/3.

[@areebmasoodi8932]

@@rickygforce4217 The amount of glitches one could use in halo 2 totally changed its gameplay. If anything I'd say it has faster gameplay than even 3 and 4. At least on the competitive level u see fast gameplay in 2. Also 3 literally wasn't even hit scan. The br bullets had travel time. That totally changed how the whole game played. You had to predict the movement of the enemy and shoot ahead of them if you wanted all your shots to hit. The jump from 3 to 4 was honestly not that big. They added Sprint, took out those special equipment and added other weird abilities. The gameplay itself was different but honestly not that different. Not so different that I'd call it a different game.

[@TheSmokeinya]

Another great video Favyn. Been playing lots of H2 these past two nights and having a blast. The Classic formula offers an experience unmatched by any other game. Its simple, addictive and fun. If 343i doesn't try to take Halo back to its roots with Infinite I really hope someone gives a green light to make a multiplayer only game with the Classic formula. 12 new maps, a bunch of remastered maps, Forge, Custom Games and then add content to it every few months as a new season. Id be interested to see how a game like that would fare in the market.

[@greenbean2222]

Seriously dude? First you pretend you forgot who I am and now you're really gonna tell me that you're not going to add my Gamertag as soon I comment it? Ridiculous. Guess we'll just have to play Halo 2/H2A til you remember me at least 1 year from now. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️ GT: zippingrocks Steam: SleepingObama

[@TheSmokeinya]

@@greenbean2222 I think you either replied to the wrong comment or you have me confused with someone else. I have only ever played Halo with people that I personally know in real life other than our opponents of course. Good luck finding the guy.

[@DVRKSTXR]

From trendsetter to trend chaser. Halo needs to evolve while maintaining the core semblances of what made the franchise the iconic progenitor of the FPS genre that it was in the first place. This is possible. We are seeing iconic franchises being rebooted in floods *(God of War, Final Fantasy VII, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare)* all the time and they are reimagining themselves expertly. There’s really no excuse for Halo to not be able to do the same thing.

[@will_of_europa]

CoD MW is shit though. Sure, it's graphically cool, but it's worse than most other CoD games. I feel the problem is these developers all rush and only spend a small amount of time ideacrafting. Their concern is hooks, not fun.

[@bobbybob6221]

Yeah but all of those games have new mechanics. It's not just the old games brought forward. There a little ideas and tweaks that make that flow well. 343 just needs to ignore the new halo vs old halo and just find a beautiful balance. I just find old halo so boring now because I've played it for YEARS. If Ifinite is classic gameplay I will probably fall asleep.

[@thetruestar6348]

What about Doom eternal for another FPS example.

[@CP-uw4ts]

@@thetruestar6348 I love how Favyn ignored the game, and that game used lore to justify it's new mechanics.

[@TheChadPad]

PHXNTXM exactly, and the way for it to evolve is to change AROUND the core mechanics that make Halo Halo, not to change them. It has changed its identity

[@tacticaloof6407]

I feel like Halo 2: Anniversary on PC will be 343i’s litmus test for this. It’s a classic Halo playing game, but has no nostalgia attached to it, so if players start playing it a lot it’ll prove that a classic playing Halo can attract players without any prior experiences muddying the waters with nostalgia

[@archerassassin8]

It's my favorite Halo multiplayer

[@Cleggnasty]

unfortunately, the real test will be Halo Infinite. Come July we shall see if whatever they are cookin up there in Washington will attract the PC audience as well as keeping and growing its Xbox audience. MCC on PC has a lot of bugs (nothing like the 2014 xbox launch) and remember H2A was made for console and is being ported over (meaning controls are not going to feel as good), where as this new halo has PC being built around it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3O7Xpdqhr2IqsU (for the bugs I am talking about not including the reach and CE bugs since you brought up H2)

[@Filip1613]

Yeah the game coming out this year will surely be drastically different depending on how halo 2 on PC does you mongrel.

[@rickygforce4217]

It's a bit late for them to be testing stuff now mate. We're a few months off launch, 343 will have decided the style of gameplay for Infinite by now.

[@TheBZNKR]

Tactical oof Halo 2 was released on Windows Vista. So there’s still some nostalgia tied to it.

[@haloplaya2009]

If this is a direct response to Eckhart Ladder’s video “Why Halo NEEDS a Battle Royal Gamemode”, then I APPLAUD you.

[@FavynTube]

It is not. Though I did see that.

[@ledbased1589]

Man you always nail it. I hold all the same opinions on things Halo as you except you put a lot more thought and explanation into them than I ever care to.

[@denimdracula5506]

LedBased pretty much same

[@joshuaduquez9835]

I’ve always appreciated the time when games like battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo, etc. had there unique gaming experiences. Battle field had huge maps, vehicles, and destructible environments; CoD had small maps, fast paced gameplay, and fun kill streaks; and Halo had slower paced arena gameplay matched with an unforgettable story and fun enemies. I loved each franchise for their own unique take on the FPS genre rather than today where every shooter must have squad operators with different abilities or a battle royal mode. While I do enjoy the newer trends I’m really starting to miss the variety we had before. I really hope halo infinite goes back to the roots of classic halo gameplay rather than repackaging CoD/Battle Royal with Spartans.

[@joshuaduquez9835]

Winging Eye eh it’s arguable since there are still perks in Warzone but I was more so hinting towards other games like apex, destiny, overwatch, valorant, and Rainbow six siege that follow the ability trend in FPS.

[@TrastaBlast]

While I would love to believe that 343i would ignore trends and make a classic halo game, or even just focus on making something cool. The fact that they replaced reach's credit based with of freaking battle pass has dashed all my hopes.

[@ghostly2.3]

A battle pass that says season 1 but has been around 6 months long

[@tman2damax]

Halo conforming to current FPS trends to regain popularity is like Taco Bell expecting to become the most successful fast food chain by throwing out all their unique menu items and only serving burgers, fries, nuggets, etc. and expecting people to ditch McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King for them.

[@justinrice5405]

I recently played Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer on PC. Funny enough, even with some updating, it shows that the old old formula still holds up in the modern age. It was nice having the golden triangle back (guns, grenades, melee) for a modern era, and working beautifully. This is what 343i should have done. I'm still mad at Josh Holmes for making a classic Halo experience that had positive feedback (which is funny when you talked about focus groups), then threw it out for the Halo 4's CoD BS! What could have been...

[@Centuries_of_Nope]

If the trends they want to follow are in esports, then they are correct. Classic Halo would not survive in the modern esports arena. Thats the problem. They are focused on keeping up with the esports market, not maintaining the artistic integrity of the franchise.

[@smugprout5698]

Well I think it is sure that after gameplay reveal it will just... fail. Nothing to add

[@nomo2746]

P. Spit yeah only fine it’ll only be okay, it’ll never reclaim its throne nor be great

[@nomo2746]

P. Spit Yeah look sounds like you didn’t even listen to any of the points and videos made on this channel at all that go into depth of the game design itself. And you’re just making baseless claims

[@jay4759]

Seems that halo was at the forefront of fps where they made all of the trends but now people either want them to 'follow current trends' or 'stick to old formula'. Both methods are dumb because they will make a game that is the same as what is already out. What they should be doing is making a innovative halo game with lots of new and interesting ideas. I mean halo 2 only ended up being great because they lied at e3 and had to entirely remake the game pushing for it to live up to lofty expectations. Rather than settle for what could be made they were pushed to try and achieve the seemingly impossible. In the end they succeeded and you don't see anything like that anymore.

[@NFS0038]

The argument of playing the old game shouldn't even exist, those games are more than ten years old. We've already played them, a remaster isn't going to provide a new experience. Nothing can substitute for a new game. Favyn has already made the point in multiple videos that bringing back the classic gameplay itself isn't enough, you also need to make a NEW, GOOD game along with it.

[@Dan-1031]

Favyn I know right, Halo would actually be on top of the FPS market right now if it had non of those sprint and advance movement mechanics. It would literally be one of a kind and that would be great for fans(because we don’t get pissed at things not Halo), Microsoft(because Halo would offer a one of a kind experience that only they provide and that would make them a shit ton more money) and gaming in general (to tell people trends don’t make quality and uniqueness)

[@nomorepartiezz]

I agree. You can tell all the advanced mobility from Halo 5 was riding the wave of wallrunning futuristic CODs/Titanfall at the time, and only 5 years later it feels super dated

[@sadowphoenix01]

I really hope there is someone at 343 watching this rn.

[@Rinesmyth]

It would be a great shame for this to fall on deaf ears

[@NFS0038]

Far too late to do anything about it at this point, halo infinite should be almost done by now. Unless it's going to be an unfinished trainwreck again like Halo 5.

[@denimdracula5506]

SunbroPrime 😩

[@limonbattery]

@@NFS0038 On the bright side, if they bomb Halo Infinite I really doubt Microsoft will hold on to 343's current leadership with how much money and rep they've cost MS over the years (ESPECIALLY with the fact they'll have sunk unprecedented cash on Infinite to develop the new engine.) If they do a great job though, then everyone stands to win.

[@Slevana5]

God this argument 343/Sprint fans use it infuriates me so damn much. It strips the identity of what it is just so it can follow other games. Imagine if people said the Pokemon TCG should do X/X stats because Yugioh and Magic do this. Pokemon is it's own TCG and has their own system that works for them with a simple HP health of the Pokemon. Similarly Halo was designed as an Arena Shooter so there was no sprint involved. Just because some shooters like Call of Duty and others have it doesn't mean it should. The no sprint Arena Shooter gameplay Halo was known for was equal, fair, and efficient for combat. You are always capable of shooting and get to ledges while doing so. And since everyone is at the same speed everyone has equal chance at power weapons or weapons on the map.

[@spacejunk2186]

"The modern audience" does not exist.

[@grant2707]

This was probably your best video. Couldn't agree more, but I have a sad hunch that our wishes will not come true.

[@looinrims]

I don’t call ‘classic halo’ ‘classic’ or old school or whatever I call it halo, halos 4 and 5 aren’t halo, insert 343 apologists saying this or that, they’re wrong, halos 4 and 5 are call of duty, in this case black ops 2 and 3, I implore everyone else to at the very least detest the idea that halo is ‘classic’, it’s not, halo is halo, that is halos not cod copycats Halo 4 and 5 are cod copycats

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

Thank you..

[@TheChadPad]

The Looinrims the reason I enjoyed Halo 4 multiplayer so much is because....I was also a cod fan back in the day. I loved it for all the wrong reasons, and it looked the "Halo experience" that Halo 3 had. The guns were cool though, and the maps were good

[@denimdracula5506]

Funny enough me and my friend have a joke that whenever we’d go play halo 5 (for whatever reason), we wouldn’t say the “halo” part and we’d just say “wanna go play 5” or something like that to dig at 343s Halo games and how they to us didn’t identify as HALO.

[@looinrims]

Leif MJ o O f

[@welfarewalrus597]

I think the best evidence we will have is the halo MCC on PC. If more people play Halo 1-3 compared to reach/4 then that is pretty good evidence towards what people want.

[@mattuiop]

Doom eternal definitely proves that you dont need to follow the grain to be successful. 343i this time definitely are looking at the group of people that deeply care about the game's success this time and not a bunch of random "gamers".

[@GallowayJesse]

People who say classic halo is "slow" don't realize that the base movement speed is faster than the games they want halo to emulate. You were sprinting the whole time and you didn't have to stop shooting to do so. Halo feels slow because the FOV is so narrow.

[@RelentlesslyPatriotic]

Halo is ruined and it’s quite sad seeing the turn it took. Halo 2 and 3 were amazing days now kids that are playing halo are just playing another cod. Why doesn’t this video have more views because it’s spot on!

[@juniper5721]

I and many of my friends are proof that not all zoomers are too close minded to play halo and games lind

[@rickygforce4217]

Ayyy another zoomer Halo fan right here

[@TacticalBaguette]

I'm the only one I know in my friend group that doesn't think Halo is dead. :/

[@dracvich]

@@TacticalBaguette ayo same :/

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

Boom look at exactly what’s happening

[@zackeryyy]

Good vid, I can simply sum up my views like this. "If I want to play cod, i'll play cod. When I play halo, I want to play halo".

[@sergeantmarcusstackerM1903]

Crouch jumping is my advanced movement

[@crusadrian5010]

We use crouch jump in Halo 5 :)

[@sergeantmarcusstackerM1903]

Crusadrian not as well as you used to :(

[@jesush.9803]

@@sergeantmarcusstackerM1903 actually, yes. Is better use crouch jumping than climb

[@bybass9666]

Jesus H. It really isn't.

[@crusadrian5010]

@@bybass9666 okay bronze kid. Everyone with a brain uses Crouch Jumping over Clamber.

[@TheAntizipated]

I was on the Splitgate Arena Warfare reddit, and one of the developers commented on a post asking for sliding to be added to the game. They said: "There will not be sliding introduced to this game. There is enough movement as it is, and it simply adds in a uncompetitive factor to a game attempting to be as competitive as possible." I hope 343 have the same level of devotion to Halo Infinite, and understanding of the direction which they want to take with it.

[@kfcfryer8168]

This video is more relevant now, than ever before. Unfortunately, my all time fave series has already failed, due to following trends. Should have been focusing on the original formula that made people fall in love with it in the first place. Aggressive micro transactions have ruined modern gaming for me, personally. Takes away the grind & overall originality. I’ll say it now, and I’ll continue to say it, Reach should have been the last Halo game. Better to hang up the cape while you’re still on top, than hop on trends & lose respect. You can still continue making games once you’re no longer on top, as long as you stay true to the key principles & themes that made a series unique. Thank you for this content. It’s great to see like minded people in the Halo community. 🙌

[@PS-mw9cc]

This is why crysis 1 was loved and why crysis 2 killed the franchise for quite some time. Or how arma beat out operation flashpoint. Arma was inaccessible as it was a hardcore military simulation shooter that required high end PCs for good performance. Operation flashpoint tried to dumb-down arma into an AAA console game that was easier to play and lacked the freedom and depth to combat, all to just cater to COD fans, who already had a game for that: COD. Arma had a small community back then due to it's extremely hardcore militaristic gameplay, but due to it following it's vision, the Arma community is now huge. Lets compare two more similar franchises: Tom Clancy's R6, and Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon. Favyn already proved that R6S is good by being unique as a hardcore, unforgiving, competitive tactical shooter. Ghost recon on the other hand, went from an unforgiving singleplayer squad-based FPS strategy game with many tactical and hardcore elements, to now, an RPG-based thrid person shooter filled with loot boxes where there is literally no need for squad mechanics, enemy AI are stupid and clueless as hell, and all the weapons, attachments, strategies, and classes are inconsequential. Ghost Recon today is an over-the-top stealth action third person shooter with gimmicky RPG elements. It's also a dead game.

[@SkanDogVids]

My life story as proof My Best friends who are still my best friends introduced me to H2 in 2004 I was a Nintendo and PS2 kid but I fell in love with Halo instantly it wasn't like anything I played up to that point a few months before Halo 3 on my birthday my parents bought me a 360 and the first 2 halo games then shortly after i convinced them to upgrade to high speed internet so I could get xbl and my best friends and a few other neighborhood friends we hungout with soon followed 2007 was my freshmen year in HS Literally everyone I knew or talked to at school played Halo 3 I knew i could come home and see dozens of my xbl friends playing Halo 3 that wasn't just in 2007 that was everyday for the next three years so my whole high-school career. I will never forget when the same best friends and the other friends in the neighborhood came to watch me play Halo Reach for the first time they were watching and they say and I quote "you can sprint in Halo now? now it's like COD" (yes I vividly remember that day) bc after that day I could feel that things were different sure they bought Halo Reach but it wasn't the same. Not every college gamer I talked to liked Halo Reach. After Halo 4 that was it for my friends in 2015 they switched to PS4 and when they play games it's either fortnite or surprise surprise whatever the newest COD is Im sorry but the fact most people in our community can't wrap their head around the FACT that our franchise started to lose traction when it started to FOLLOW TRENDS honestly upsets me and makes me sick it really does I have watched a generation of gamers lose interest in Halo and people want to make excuses about the competition Halo 3 had (or lack there of according to them) all of the people I met through H5 and say H5 is better left for different games a few years ago and aren't 152 here I am someone who prefers classic and am now almost 152 this makes me upset Favyn

[@iKiwed]

It's my story too, more or less. Except I started from CE, and I found a classmate who played CE too, and we played together until Reach. Reach was personally the pinnacle to us two, although I understand why people didn't like it. That said, after Halo 4 my friend left Xbox to move on PS4, and now he plays Destiny. A shame to see Halo following the trends instead of getting the roots, and I'm saying this as a Halo 5 fan.

[@kainey]

8:51 I felt the same frustration as yours nice video btw

[@will_of_europa]

You know what else is missing from most games these days? Single player and offline content. I don't want to only sweaty or only tryhard. I play games to have a good time, not get rekt or "get gud." I couldn't care less about my skill in a fictional amalgamation of pixels on the screen.

[@TheChadPad]

HiveTyrant36 the reason Halo 3 succeeded is because it had a healthy balance of all of it. It did everything well, and it truly had something for everyone

[@KevinKoolx]

Personally Halo 3 and Halo 5 are my favorite multiplayers in the franchise. I like the fast pace and free range of motion Halo 5 offers. I also like Halo 3's ability to be easy to learn but hard to master. As long as it's not like Halo 4 which was the most confusing game design I've seen in the franchise.

[@rickygforce4217]

I'm still of the firm belief that there can be a game with both Halo 3's simple and accessible mechanics and the faster pacing of H5. Halo 2 Classic on PC feels blisteringly fast-paced and arena shooter-like, and it feels almost more like my interpretation of what Halo should be like than even H2C on Xbox. FOV slider probably plays a big part tbh

[@marck9798]

343 needs to please both fans so adding a bit of both could work

[@JK-420]

I don’t know why I keep watching these vids it just bums me out to know 343 wont be getting any of my money cuz they for sure will fuck this up

[@arc-Droper]

I feel ya but the few things I really want from halo is the brutshot and duel weilding back in the game

[@kashifahmed6470]

Whats wrong with wanting more of the same when what 'same' means is the greatest game of all time... Imitation is not innovation Stop fixing what isn't broken

[@Mr.Scott86]

The problem with that is that there is potential to fall into a pit like cod where people constantly say "every game feels the same" I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying what could happen if they do the same thing every time

[@kashifahmed6470]

@@Mr.Scott86 Yes but original Halo series had a lot to give before we reached that point... Also, they didn't change Halo to not fall into the pit, but to follow trends in hope of greater financial rewards and it backfired...

[@Mr.Scott86]

@@kashifahmed6470 that is true, I just hope it doesn't fall into that pit, for now let's hope that halo infinite will give us a classic halo experience

[@HydratedBeans]

If halos classic gameplay was capable to being popular in the modern era, then halo wouldn’t have lost popularity once MW1 released.

[@FavynTube]

It didn't. They came out the same year and Halo 3 was the #1 game until mw2 and then it became....the second most popular game

[@HydratedBeans]

@@FavynTube Oh forgive me, it lost popularity when the next CoD came out a year later. Point still stands.

[@Naded]

Completely agree. It'll fail 100% if it follows trends. Might have another Halo 4 experience where 3 months into the game people already are jumping onto other games and not coming back. A lot of people know a classic Halo game is the right move. Unfortunately it seems the higher ups at 343 don't understand that. They should of been innovating classic style Halo from the beginning without completely breaking the true original formula of gameplay. I don't mind having advanced mobility features in the game as options for customs or other game modes but the main game should be built around classic Halo.

[@slayer4810]

Are there people who actually want to play Halo with sprint removed? Y’all want just the Magnum, Assault rifle, shotgun & sniper to just be in the game as well?

[@Comkill117]

“We need to alter our insanely popular series and make it almost completely unrecognizable to anyone who has a passing understanding of what it is. That’ll get people on board.” I don’t think a series should try to appeal to newcomers by ditching what made it special in the first place. This has been shown throughout history that losing your series identity does you no favors.

[@thatdonkey7215]

Tbh, the advanced movement in Halo 5 is only similar to the minority of enhanced movement games. Titanfall style like the CODs was more popular. Halo 5s movement is some what unique. I played a lot of Titanfall 2, and Halo 5 feels way different.

[@FavynTube]

Yes they are different. But they certainly follow the same trend and share underlying mechanics

[@thatdonkey7215]

Favyn true, but at least 343 didn’t copy paste like COD. I do understand why people don’t like the movement mechanics though.

[@Manas_Choudhary]

After MCC's success, if 343 decides to follow trends with Halo Infinite instead of having a classic feel, I will lose all respect for them because they are clearly incompetent to handle a legendary series like Halo.

[@jessicagray8852]

I think staying on top of genre trends isn't a good focus for 343, but being laser focused on the trends of the halo playerbase and keep in your ginger on the pulse of the halo community will be key. Give us a good sandbox and creation tools and then promote popular or promising content and constantly be offering new features and alternate experiences. Allow the game to be an engine or sandbox that can breed different gameplay experiences. Look at Gmod. It works not because it's an amazing game with good graphics or a really innovative sandbox, it works because people make content for it that people enjoy and if they don't enjoy it, it's not played. If you give us a good halo game with a system that promotes the community creating more content for it, then it will have infinite (pun intended) replayability. Halo 5s main appeal for me and my friends is the forge and custom games experience. That feature is the only reason anyone I know still plays that game.

[@halo3iskewlyay]

I'm so happy you brought up R6: Siege because I often call it the "Halo 3" of my adult life. There's nothing else like it, and it's the only game that rivals my Halo days in terms of time played (well, aside from CoD4/MW2).

[@n4ko]

you articulate this soo well, there is no mistake that this isnt an attack on the game but a genuine worry that we all have about not only halo but everygame but we didn't know it in words, this problem is everywhere, and it was hitching me the wrong way without me knowing what it was,

[@goober_777]

Sorry for long comment but I needed to vent some of my frustrations I really hope this video gets to 343 somehow and changes the way they think about their games This video literally encapsulated all of my thoughts and frustrations my group of friends even my brother only play games like cod battlefield apex which I have no problem with those games I even play them time to time but when I try to get them to play halo they usually just laugh and say something along the lines of "imagine being stuck on games from 2007" or "why do you like old games so much" they never even gave halo a true shot my friends played halo 4 for a week and stopped most likely because of what you said in this video because it was following trends of games they had already played my brother has played every halo a little and he says to me when I try to get him to play "halo has been out since 2001 the game is old and boring now let's go play COD"

[@TheChadPad]

SHORT HEAD I remember a time when people played both COD and Halo, and appreciated each for what they had to offer. This was back in 2008. I was 14. Now, Halo is more like COD, along with every other game it feels like, and I'm just hoping beyond hope we'll see a time when these games and their developers are not afraid to be unique and different, so the audiences that love that uniqueness can love it in its full glory

[@EpsilonXenos]

Finally! Someone who knows what Halo needs! It's so rare to come across someone who actually backs up their points and actually uses real examples to back up their points on a topic like this.

[@spectrallmusic]

Leave it to favyn to read everyone's minds and compress our collective thoughts into a comprehensive video.

[@spikypikachu1162]

I think i have an idea. Its a large stretch I know but its just an idea, why not make a halo "spin off" game. One that isn't exactly with the other halos, well a halo that is separate to the main line series. And implement those trends (doesn't even have to have a campaign or anything, just about two or three game modes) and get feedback of what people say and what to stay away from for the future of halo. And i would suggest having a separate team or a team from 343i to work on it. That could possibly help with the whole "will this work or not" strategy. Doesn't need to be special, far from that. Again this is an idea that COULD help. Im not sure, but i wanna know your guy's thoughts about it, and your thoughts about it Favyn.

[@pathos7527]

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here as somebody who’s been a fan of all the games in the series and has been playing since before Halo 2 came out. I take issue with the idea that there is no reason to consider contemporary mechanics just because “everybody else is already doing it.” This point of view seems to ignore consideration of WHY these mechanics became popular in the first place, because they obviously weren’t that from the get-go, and so the initial basis for them becoming popular wasn’t that it was “what everyone is familiar with,” it was what they added to the gameplay experience. I don’t see many of the “classic Halo advocates” making any or much effort to analyze this, hence a wholesale rejection of ALL newer contemporary mechanics, which is where those of you who believe that way lose me. More consideration ought to be given to the specific elements and whether they work for Halo rather than this - to my perspective - outright dismissal of those newer elements by such fans. Clamber is a perfect example of this. I understand the “skill” argument of crouch jumping to a certain extent, but ultimately the functional utility of that was to reach higher areas and enable new opportunities in movement paths not offered through conventional moving and jumping. Clamber functionally serves the same purpose. Crouch jumping may take skill to some extent, but the greatest extent of skill difference being expressed was always more about accuracy, general positioning and positioning relative to teammates, timing and other tactics. I didn’t find anything about the change to clamber to functionally change how skill difference between players was expressed: those not skilled enough to be utilizing crouch jumping are now the same type of players I see not utilizing clamber at all or very often, and also still aren’t more accurate at shooting and such so it doesn’t feel like it has leveled the playing field for them at all in terms of ability to win. This makes sense, because it’s enabling universal easier map traversal, so for every new player who finds clamber easier, you have a veteran who can also do that, making the true differentiating factor those other skill elements that it was always more about in my experience anyway. And if we are looking bigger picture when it comes to this mechanic, considering Bungie’s own inclusion of it in Destiny it seems likely that had they retained the reigns on Halo we would have gotten precisely this anyway. Given the hostility people have had for someone new handling the franchise on a fundamental level, though, something tells me had Bungie been the ones to introduce this exact same feature into the franchise themselves, it would’ve been welcomed more than it has been just because 343 did it instead. A lot of the argument of this video seems to rest on the notion that because players can experience these contemporary mechanics elsewhere, nothing is gained by their inclusion in Halo. I also have to dispute this, because it seems to assume that because players are offered these mechanics elsewhere, they are already playing those games also and content with that. In my experience, this is factually untrue. I have multiple friends for who Halo is the only or next to only FPS series they are into, and so for them, these mechanics are a newer experience for them because they aren’t interested in those other games, and further because they are such Halo fans, they would rather take a chance on Halo’s version of them - trusting they’ll be best done there - than try out anybody else’s version of them. It isn’t as simple as “those mechanics are cool for their own sake so they’re content to go where they can get them.” They want the feel of Halo gameplay with newer mechanics that work well for a shooter when it makes sense to, not just any series’ gameplay. Saying people who would enjoy that are already getting that elsewhere then is, like I said, factually untrue. While I like more different shooters than most of my friends, I generally feel the same, and it stands to reason if I know multiple people who feel that way, there are a lot of other Halo fans out there who do, too. I agree 100% that Halo needs to be about innovation rather than trend adoption, and I feel strongly this needs to be a driving force behind Infinite. That granted, I also don’t think wholesale rejection of all newer shooter gameplay conventions simply because Halo didn’t create them (the way classic Halo gameplay advocates seem to feel) does anything to make the franchise’s gameplay better. What makes sense, and what is realistically what we’re going to get, is having a thoughtful fusion of a classic core to the gameplay, newer gameplay conventions where sensible and new innovations by this series itself that make sense for the series. Expecting anything else is asking to be disappointed, and expecting failure if it doesn’t follow the purely classic approach advocated here is to be overly cynical about the series in my opinion. That’s my two cents, take it as you will. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Masterofcandy4]

Please hook us up with a TL:DR i’m not reading all of that.

[@pathos7527]

Candyman Two big things the case made in the video ignores. First is it doesn’t ask why enhanced mobility became popular in games in the first place and whether any of those reasons are relevant to consider for Halo, just dismisses them all outright for being popular and not made by Halo. That’s a mistake. Clamber is a good example. It just replaces crouch-jumping, but the really skilled players still feel just as divided from the less-skilled as they always did so I see no good reason not to have it. Other point is not everyone wants to play those other games with those mechanics. Got friends that only like Halo for FPS multiplayer and for them these mechanics are new in Halo and they trust in general it can do these things better than others will. Agreed Halo should prioritize innovation, just saying it shouldn’t ignore trends entirely when they could benefit the experience.

[@cqb3814]

Mythic Arena from Halo 5 seems like the best way to go IMO.

[@NFS0038]

It's really telling that we haven't even seen gameplay for Infinite and it's supposed to launch this year. Still have no idea what it's going to play like. I'm well past the point of having faith in 343 to make a good game, but even if it was a really subpar Halo game, as long as it played like classic Halo, I'd buy it.

[@HonorableTaco]

343: What is Halo? Me: It's a game who's formula is X 343: X wouldn't work now, it should be Y Me: Then it wouldn't be Halo 343: We'll call it Halo, present it as Halo Me: Why not just properly label and present it as a different IP at that point? 343: [autistic screeching]

[@MajoraZ]

While I agree that Halo doesn't "need to evolve" or anything like that, "Classic Halo" was obviously following the trends set by titles such as Quake and Unreal Tournament in the late 90's, for example to begin with, so I also don't think that there's anything necessarily wrong with Halo adopting things, even trends, as long as they fit with the core design principals of the series and be synergistically beneficial. I would agree with you and much of your viewers that Reach and especially 4's new additions didn't really do that: If the core of Halo is influenced by Arena Shooters from the 90's, then loadouts, especially outright with perks and killstreaks as in 4, quite obviously undermines Halo's foundational design principals. Where I disagree though is on Halo 5: While I think Spartan Charge is broken and hurts gameplay and I'm not particularly fond of clamber or sprint or ground pound, I don't see how any of these inherently undermine "Classic Halo"'s design philosophy. If anything, Thrust, Hover, and Slide DO synergize with it, as Halo, like Quake and Unreal, has always had a heavy amount of verticality and platforming in it's level design and those 3 abilities increase that emphasis. 5's level design is also the most platforming heavy it's been since 2, as 3 largerly stretched the maps out and lowered the amount of places on it's maps where you could change elevation (with Guardian being the only non remake CE-2 style 4v4 map), ironically running against the idea that sprint stretches maps out when 3 did so without sprint and 5 undoes some of that damage even WITH sprint. I know you and many videos on your channel (not necessarily this one, and I do agree with you that Halo should cater and foster to it's fans and it's own identity, I just don't think that that's mutially exclusive with adopting popular trendy features) argue that 5's abilities are bad because they are new abilities the player has rather then new sandbox elements or contextual like 2 and 3's additions, but I don't really buy this: Plenty of other franchises introduce new core player abilities without underming their core identity: Is Super Mario Oddessy less of a Sandbox Mario title because of the stuff you can do with Cappy? Of course not (and hell SM64 was a major departure from it's 2d titles). Also, as somebody who was around in the community back when 2 and 3 came out, I can tell you both games had criticism they garned for being a step down from prior titles, but absolutely NOBODY cared or made a big deal about sandbox vs player changes as some core rule new titles had to follow or that Duel Wielding or Vehicle hijacking were okay because they were "contextual" (and I might add that clamber is also contextual, and the universal zoom 2 added wasn't). Hell, 3's equipment broke BUNGIE'S own self stated rule for what makes Halo Halo, being the Golden Triangle of Guns, Grenades, and Melee as combat tools, and nobody seems to care about that. If you ask me, the only reason we are really having these conversations is because 5 had the misfortune of releasing after Reach and 4 and MCC's botched launch, when people wanted any excuse to hate on 343i and when they were sick of new changes in general, and that in 2007, CoD4 came out and became a serious rival to Halo, and the Halo community ever since has had a deep vitrol towards other FPS franchises as a threat to Halo and sees any sort of borrowing of ideas from them as "giving in": If, say, thrusters been introduced before Reach and 4, and especially before CoD 4, such as in 2 or 3, I would be willing to bet nobody would have minded them and to this day they'd be a treasured part of the series. What we SHOULD be asking is : "Had Halo 2 or 3 introduced this, would the community have been okay with it?": THAT is what should define if X or Y is Halo or not; not simply because 2 or 3 DIDN'T do them or X series did.

[@wet_weather_imp]

But Halo 5 added these armour abilities as a trend, not as a natural progression, that is where the difference lies

[@MajoraZ]

@@wet_weather_imp That's my point, though: It shouldn't matter WHY it was added, just that those additions synergize well with the core design philsophy of the series, which at least some of 5's new mechanics do.

[@wet_weather_imp]

MajoraZ But that is why I do not think they synergise well in game and that it is extremely important how new mechanics are added.

[@aetherialwolf]

I appreciate the argument but honestly I disagree. I've been playing halo since halo ce and while I love all of the bungie games I never liked how slow and clunky the movement was. It wasn't until halo reach came out that I felt like an actual spartan in the games. I really don't think halo 5's movement is the problem. I think it was the presentation of halo 4 and 5 that were the biggest issue. Halo 4 came out and completely changed the art direction rewrote a lot of lore and created one of the most unbalanced multiplayer systems in gaming. Halo 5 did almost the same thing but in the opposite direction they created one of the worst halo campaigns ever by completely ruining character arcs and set up plot details and added one of the most overly monotised and paytowin systems in first person gameing. Most people I've talked to liked halo 5's balanced multiplayer gameplay in the arena modes. I think if we were to compromise I'd say bump up the base movespeed remove sprint but keep the clambering and thrusters giving Spartans a faster more aggressive moveset but still balanced closer to original halo.. I personally have no problems with the sprint and dodge thruster ability. But if I had to make a change that's what I'd pick. I really just want a good story and fun sandbox multiplayer that I was used to in halo

[@bernardoblanchetramirez6032]

My recommendations were getting filled with all the videos I’ve watched from your channel for the last 3-4 years. Glad to know I get a new one today!

[@jeremiahbradley3719]

HaloCE was the first First Person Shooter I played and I can not get over it even the two years I've played.

[@zoroxtreme867]

Halo sets trends not follows them

[@fraughtmonster8]

Do you still plan on making the halo reach video?

[@Brawler_1337]

Well, we now know that Halo will not stop chasing trends. But instead of chasing battle royale and implementing a mode that could make custom games and Forge even more fun, they decided to make yet another open world adventure. You know what would actually be refreshing in this day and age? A linear level-based shooter with no mobility options inherent to the player, no forced cinematic moments that yank the controls away from the player, and a wide open sandbox that creates cool gameplay moments just by interacting with itself. You know, everything Halo was before 343 started making it like every other shooter.

[@Visual_Writer]

„Classic Halo wouldn‘t survive ?“ Strongly disagree.

[@herbalyzoltan409]

So, the short version of this video: If your game doesn't add anything unique thing into the gamplay, people won't play it, because other games have those thing too. Make a unique game, and players will like it for being different.

[@archerrofe9728]

Would this apply to modes as well? Because if I remember correctly halo 3 ODST had firefight which was following trends as a horde mode for halo but was a welcome change because the gameplay was unique to halo. Could this apply to battle royale for halo and even Warzone if it plays like classic halo, or will it feed into every game having a campaign, firefight, multiplayer and battle royale, therefore making it not as unique?

[@FavynTube]

Like I say pretty early on this video, Halo is really flexible when it comes to incorporating new modes. Those are examples of GOOD additions imo