Fire, Blood, Grief, and Prophecy: the Rhaegar Targaryen story

[@BubblegumCrash332]

This should be the biggest Song of Ice and Fire channel. How is it not

[@chellybub]

It's probably because of the unedited long form format of most videos. Which is a lot of fun if you watch it live, might come across as jarring for a new viewer who watches the video at a later point. Plus the stopping to answer questions. Like there's a lot of stuff, I know these made it hard for me when I first found the channel. Thankfully I was very interested in what LML was saying so I stuck with it, but I could see it putting other people off who just want their 10 minute hyper edited videos like alt shift x or preston jacobs or whatever. That said I actually think LML's and Quinn's edited ASOIAF videos are some of the best on KZbin. Especially the Great Empire of the Dawn videos, I really enjoyed them. I dunno... I guess it's a good way to keep less serious fans away because these videos require more time and energy to consume. Energy in the sense that these live stream vids can chop and change around because of the viewer questions, and sometimes he'll say the wrong name or something like that. I mean in this video he called Robert's rebellion the war of five kings. It takes a bit of thinking to make sense of what he's saying especially as there's no pictures laying everything out for the visual learners etc etc. And then you have all the symbolism, which is going to go over a lot of people's heads. I think there's a lot of reasons and none of them have to do with the quality of the concepts, it's mostly going to be general viewer preferences. I'm glad it's this way because it shows that LML is doing what he likes rather than pandering to audience, which can drag channels in a direction that he might not like. Imagine having to produce content for mass appeal. Fuck that noise lol. This is so much more personal and comfy 😊

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

Its getting there! This is what really fueled my passion for asoiaf. Props to u D!

[@GullibleTarget]

@@chellybub true. I prefer the shorter formats but LML is one of few youtubers who does not pander to popular opinion. He is definitely not my fav but he's one of the most authentic and I like it when he goes deep. I first heard him on Greyarea's channel and I was like:' this guy must be better on his own'. So I checked out his channel and thought the videos were too long. Until he explained his theory on the history of 'planetos' and it echoed my own theories but in a way that I could never verbalize so eloquently(I hardly speak English in everyday life.). It is a format that works brilliantly for the uber-ASOIAF-geeks.

[@helenrose5383]

Most ASOlAF channels are only concerned with details and predictions. I love LML because he interprets ASOIAF differently than almost everyone else. He prioritizes themes and the overarching story rather than individual characters. He figures out the 'moral puzzles' Martin left to us readers as if to test us. I mean, just because characters said that Azor Ahai was a hero despite him killing his wife for the "greater good", I was ready to accept him as a good guy because of the all morally grey hero trend. LML opened my eyes when he considered Azor Ahai as an evil dude.

[@theinvisiblewoman6783]

I mean I’ve gone through a lot of Song of Ice and Fire channels. Some got too tin foil. Some stopped existing. Some just do video formats I like less than previous formats. So I’ve been binging Lightbringer for weeks now. On the way to work; Lightbringer. At work; Lightbringer. At home Lightbringer.

[@SlimRhyno]

"Rhaegar's Reading Corner" is one of the best things I've seen on the internet in some time. Just one more reason I enjoy your content so much!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Hell yeah that’s a fun one to dip into. He came back for the most recent Easter Trivia episode

[@tylercruse2402]

An astute take. The rebellion's originator was Jon Arryn. Robert was just the most charismatic & best warrior. Eddard was the battlefield strategy guy.

[@DavidLightbringer]

100% you're right, Eddard was the battlefield strategist, and probably Jon Arryn too. Robert sound like he was just fucking invincible on the battlefield though, I can only image a giant with a warhammer like that

[@williamwhitfield6225]

@@DavidLightbringer What makes Rhagers choice to run off with Lyanna interesting. Is the Rebellion would have likely had the goal of putting Rhager on the throne. The Rebellion was already forming against Aerys even before he ran off with Lyanna and Neds father and brother rode to kings landing. The houses where already dividing and scheming, and if Rhaegar had never ran off Lyanna. The rebellion would have simply been someone poisoning Aerys and sitting Rhaegar on the throne in his place. And the realm would have never fallen into chaos and war, and the Targaryens would still have the throne. So that event has big ties to the prophecy and the birth of Jon, but also set the events of the story in motion. To me this definitely reeks of Bloodraven and his influence, so was he trying to fulfill prophecy and to have Rhaeger father Jon with Lyanna? Or was he using the prophecy to get Rhaeger to cause the fall of the Targaryens and set off the power struggle in the realm.

[@mellowyello1478]

Me replying from the future: also, Jon Arryn was too old as I'm pretty sure eas written in the text. Jon was too old and Robert was the charismatic warrior hero. Why Jon didnt just run the realm as Hand with Robert as a puppet, we'll never know besides "he was too loving" towards Robert.

[@rhaevan.maniyara]

@@mellowyello1478 Bcos Robert had a better claim. If all the Targaryen's are gone, then only the Barrathean brothers remain for the throne. Robert and Rhaegar are cousins.

[@thereader6667]

@@rhaevan.maniyara Very well said, Ser.

[@tristanescure7384]

Summerhall really gives perspective to Rhaegar's obsession with prophecy. When such a tragedy hits a child from day 1, with a family half-mad half-fanatic, they gotta search for meaning somewhere. Many want to think that Rheagar was a genius or that he was a freak but, at the end of the day, he was just a man tortured by grief trying to figure out what he was meant to do with all that bullshit life put before him.

[@cloudfloat4179]

Yeah kind of the archetype of the "emo"...

[@thalmoragent9344]

He wanted to make sure his family members didn't die for his birth in vain, perhaps

[@MrFredstt]

Very interesting and a good point

[@theseviolentdelightz]

the story of rhaegar and robert baratheon kind of reminds me of lord of the rings. Robert baratheon is like the age of men taking over, while the elves(targaryens) fade from the world. Rhaegar is very elvish seeming, concerned with the history and the future of the realm, whereas robert lives in the moment, and he's truly glorious in his prime, but decays over time.

[@MegaKnight2012]

Except there might be a line in The Silmarillion, or one of the notes, about man being there to correct faults committed by the Elves, and Robert wasn't that good at correcting the Targaryens faults. I think it's more a commentary on one man leading a rebellion against another, who aren't necessarily fit for the crown and throne.

[@MrFredstt]

@@MegaKnight2012I like thy idea. Just because a rebellion happens against a corrupt ruler DOESN'T mean that the rebellion results in something better

[@bobbehwitchie]

I'm 40 min deep I just started the second rheagar reading and I have to tell you, youre ridiculous in the best possible way. I love the deep character studies. I cant wait for a Theon breakdown.

[@jmace2424]

“We have a better King right here!” Said Tywin Lannister pointing to Rhaegar with 3 fingers pointing back at himself 😃

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

the one time I cursed Barristan for his loyalty

[@SingingSealRiana]

And very soon after Tywin said that, Rhegar fucked the whole beeing responsable and a good leader royaly up . . .

[@pauldaskal9510]

Jazz Bass!

[@jenniferkelly3941]

Prophecy meant more to Rhaegar than a Kingship or a kingdom.

[@arawn1061]

​@@jenniferkelly3941 which is insane lol

[@fluencer]

We can say that Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, but the dude tried really hard to balance his esoteric inner life and his public life, unlike Aerys I or even Baelor. He recognized that his father was a terrible ruler, and set a plan in motion by bankrolling the Tourney of Harrenhal, getting all the lords together... until he threw it all away for prophecy.

[@MrFredstt]

Sometimes people often forget how absolutely nuts Barker was just because he wasn't outwardly cruel like the mad king or Maegor

[@jlworrad]

Great stream. The prerecorded stuff is hilarious and nicely breaks things up.

[@jamalthomas2912]

Curse KZbins lack of notification Praise Garth

[@tidalink]

I'm glad i'm not the only one who thought of Rheagar as being possibly Autistic. That was the first thing I thought when Rheagar suddenly decided to become a warrior so he could better fit the Prince that was Promised prophecy. A wonderful example of George fitting the real world into his fantasy epic. Great stream LmL.

[@FishBoneD14]

Dresden Files also discusses why infinite summer is as bad as infinite winter

[@espalier]

I dug the pre-recorded shit. solid move.

[@DavidLightbringer]

awesome, just what I wanted to hear

[@kelestra1]

@@DavidLightbringer cheeky little Flowers... 😁

[@TheOnlyElle.]

@@DavidLightbringer I like the mixture of both- pre recorded is easier for My ADHD brain to focus on, but live streams are fun, as We can all interact in the chat, have a laugh and I learn a lot from other "Myth heads" and Yourself, LML. Your pre recorded vids have been of excellent quality of late. Your editing is getting better and better 🙌🏼🤘🏼

[@yetipotato8567]

Yes its a good move

[@staytuned2L337]

Yeah this was awesome. I'm sad to have missed the livestream, but this is definitely super super cool and well done !!

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

I LOVE The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina! So glad you watch it, too.

[@juniorbaal]

I love how I can always find confort in his old vídeos to help me sleep, Thank you lml

[@WhoIsCalli]

Such a fun one this was. Rhaeger is so enigmatic.. so fun to dive deeper into his symbolism

[@LionOfGondor]

I like this page reading thing. I admire how you aren't afraid of trying new things, it's inspiring man. Keep doing what you love and feel free to try something new if you want to

[@tool9386]

I like the recorded quote readings.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Right on! Thanks for saying so

[@christinasumisaki5863]

I cannot overstate how much I enjoyed Rhaegar's Reading Room and hope to see more of it! Highly entertaining! Another great character study, full of useful insights with a creative and amusing presentation, plus wonderful art. Bravo! 👏

[@mormontsraven4072]

Great stream LmL! I never considered that Rhaegar could have been neurodiverse, but it could be true. I also have a minor theory about Rhaegar: Rhaegar was asexual. Ned mentions that Rhaegar didn't seem the type to frequent brothels. His relationship with Elia was tepid. I will get to his relationship with Lyanna. If Rhaegar had "favored" any of his boyfriends, Connington would have known and been jealous and we would have heard about it in his POV chapter. Asexual people can be romantic, so he might have loved Lyanna and/or Elia. But I do think that Rhaegar was just not into sex. He did it just to create three heads for the dragon.

[@mormontsraven4072]

Either that, or he grew up watching his dad rape his mom so he was just traumatized by it. Whatever the reason was, Rhaegar just doesn't seem to be into sex.

[@DavidLightbringer]

honestly this makes a lot of sense. Nothing kills the mood like thinking about the others, I guess? seriously though it fits what we know

[@bensonrussell7232]

Great theory and even better jape. This hits for you

[@sierrabird3817]

Not to mention pregnancy/childbirth was putting Elia’s life at risk (& later did kill Lyanna) so I can imagine Rhaegar thinking about that as well.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Nah, you do not need to be asexual to not interessted in brothels . . . Like Ned for example. But on thevother hand it is a spectrum and in comparison to Robert he definitly was way closerto asexuality. Still it is a trend that those of who we know they are gay did not father children, even if they really absolutly should have out of duty . . . Grrm seems to go with love beeing optional when it comes to producing an heir, but sexuality actualy beeing a hindrance . . . Three children are awefuly many considering that it does not tend to work with one try and all.

[@ElkeDragos]

Rhaegar is one of my favorite characters. 😍

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yeah mine too, I really enjoyed putting myself in his position in this stream and thinking everything through

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

Rhaegar as emo musician is reminding me of Jeff Buckley and Elliot Smith, but I am and old-ass Gen Xer. I guess every generation has their sad young genius bard taken too young.

[@4yushb528]

juice wrld is gen z’s

[@aligeorgemusic]

So true! For me he is like Buckley and Smith but possibly Nick Drake even more.

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

@@aligeorgemusic I can't believe I forgot about Nick Drake! Good catch! I feel like Phil Ochs might be the Boomer version. He did a song about a highwayman that makes me burst into tears every time.

[@aligeorgemusic]

@@coyotegaxiola4281 Ah! I don’t know Phil Ochs very well. I’ll look into the highwayman song! Cheers! 👍🏻

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

@@aligeorgemusic Have the tissues ready.

[@brandonlambert9768]

Dany's arc will be similar to Stannis'. She'll attack King's Landing and there will be mass casualties and she'll be beside herself and then she'll learn of the threat of the others and go north to help in the fight.

[@DavidLightbringer]

EXACTLY, I'm amazed by how many people don't see this. She'll probably fight a battle at the Wall, and then march to Winterfell to fight there as well, just like Stannis

[@brandonlambert9768]

@@DavidLightbringer Agreed. I think she'll die a heroic death, but she'll be viewed as a Mad Queen in Westeros, and in Essos, she'll become a mythological/religious figure ala The Mother.

[@stoev7098]

Excellent work man, the humor was on point.

[@kristi4113]

I’ve always thought that it was Baelish who spread the “Big Lie” about Rhaegar and Lyanna. He was cast out of Riverrun after healing from the ass beating he got from Brandon Stark, and he would have been in the area of the King’s Road and the Inn of the Crossroads going to The Vale when Rhaegar and Lyanna would have been heading for Dorne. He would have recognized them even if they were in disguise, and used that information for his own gain knowing how hotheaded Brandon was, and how Lyanna was promised to Robert. Plus…everyone knew what happened at Harrenhal, so who else BUT Littlefinger could twist seeing Rhaegar and Lyanna together to their benefit???

[@ThisIsJASONNNN]

The prerecorded quotes were great! Thanks for those. Probably gave your voice a break too

[@Henbot]

A none super chat question I think was a good one, asked by the dude called Gus Mulder around 47-50 mins make. It was “Do you think that Rhaeger knew he was going to die “. Do you think he did ? What if he didn’t think he would be the promised prince but had to do stuff to guarantee the arrival ? Rhaeger point was interesting to Jaime, it mirrors Ned and Jon with Ned promising next time they talk to Jon.

[@thereader6667]

I think he knew. At this point he knew Jon was about to be born and therefore his part in the prophecy was over. I think he sought out Robert on the battlefield in hope that Robert would kill him and overthrow his father, as he knew Aerys couldn’t be in charge when the long night hit. He most likely hoped that Ned would be made king as he was the only one who would take the threat of the WW seriously. And Ned could have taken the throne, he just chose not too. Rhaegar should have consulted with Ned as it seems he was consulting with Richard Stark before he died.

[@Sean12248]

Thank you so much for posting these. Not everyone can watch it live.

[@Duffren]

I never picked up on now much Barristan tried to hum and haw his way through describing Rhaegar's combat skills until hearing it all back to back. Bold as Rhaegar may have been, he just wasnt ready.

[@KBlanca513]

I doubt Elia was on board with Rhaegar running off with Lyanna. It would have been publicly humiliating, especially as a royal of the realm, and it made the Martells angry, they withheld troops because of it until Aerys threatened them. If she had been on board she would have told her family to help Aerys. Just because some Dornish have paramours and Oberon had bastards all over the place doesn’t mean all Dornish, including those in Oberyn’s family, would have been okay with it. As for Littlefinger telling Brandon, ugh, I hope not. It gives Petyr too much power too soon, it’s too cheesy and small-world, and why would Brandon even listen to him in the first place. Just, no.

[@lucindaflink3302]

I feel like there’s a right way to have a paramour in Dorn (as well as most of Westeros) and a wrong way, and what Rhaegar did was definitely the wrong way. Even if she had been ok with him taking a mistress or at least expected him to at some point, there was no way she’d be ok with him running off with her and putting her and her children in such a precarious and embarrassing situation. The dornish might be more sexually liberal and openly passionate than the rest of Westeros, but they’re also very proud and I doubt a dornish woman would take the disrespect from her husband laying down. Perhaps Elia knew about Lyanna and her wolf blood and respected her for that, and maybe she didn’t have any beef with Lyanna herself and would have been ok with her being Rhaegar’s official mistress, but she definitely wasn’t in on his plan to marry Lyanna and the execution of said plan.

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

What if Lyanna was such an amazing equestrian because she was unconsciously warging into her horse?

[@DavidLightbringer]

That's kind of what i was getting at, yeah. maybe that's what the "couple of centaurs" line is about in regards to Lyanna and Brandon

[@SingingSealRiana]

Warging is specific to wolves . . . But yeah she had the wolves blood and even if her powers never quite woke to the degree of skinchangeing, it still could have allowed her a connection to her horse, like Robb had controll over graywind, without slipping into his pelt

[@troubledwaters7441]

@@SingingSealRiana Arya wargs into cats...

[@SingingSealRiana]

@@troubledwaters7441 no, she skinchanges into the cat, it is like with pony and horse. a pony is a horse but a horse is not a pony.

[@MrFredstt]

Good catch!

[@yensid4294]

Why would you be interested in playing with other children if you had been raised believing you were the literal Chosen One in a family that already believed themselves different/better than regular people? He may have spent time alone because he was a seer. The contrast between Rhaegar & Robert is kind of interesting. Also the parallels between Jormungandr & Thor, although they both kill each other during Ragnarok. But you could argue that by killing Rhaegar& becoming king, Robert suffered a slow suffocating death of addiction & depression. I see a lot of Orpheus symbolism around Rhaegar/the Harp/the song

[@lizardbreathh]

Amazing stream! I was lucky enough to catch it live!

[@Henbot]

Such a interesting dysfunctional storyline Cersei and Robert. The prerecorded stuff fun too 😂

[@brittanystoddard3107]

This is my first live stream I was able to catch & I'm beyond satisfied! Amazing community & lml has the voice of a god. Hes very easy to listen to for hours so don't let video times stray you away. If you are looking for a deeper dive into asoiaf & some laughs along the way it's the best place to be especially with eveything going on in the world. Tough times, much appreciation! ♡

[@daggermouthtony]

"I'm calm, I'm calm... everything's fine." Lmao

[@obi-juankarlos2409]

It is said that Rhaegar always came back from Summerhall with a new song or something, and he really loved that place. The thing is, another person have strong feelings about that place. Could the Ghost of Higheart be visiting the ruins with Rhaegar? Like, maybe it was her who spoke to him about the Song of Ice & Fire, stuff nobody else knows about, things about the future and the past, the kind of stuff she tells the Brotherhood without banners. Maybe it was him who wrote Jenny's song, qnd he sang in exchange for prophecy. So, it was the Greenseer guiding him, through the white Ghost with the red eyes. Like father like son I guess

[@obi-juankarlos2409]

Hell! What if the Ghost of Higheart IS Nissa Nissa?! We don't know if revived people can die of old age, maybe she's been alive for all this time. Maybe she's been guiding the revenge against Azor Ahai, and she knows what is needed for this whole enchilada to end

[@LionOfGondor]

The hair looks so damn nice LML

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh why thank you Ishpreet!

[@brandonlambert9768]

Agreed. 😍🤤

[@Darksun93]

The pre-recorded stuff is a pretty cool addition to your live stream. 👍

[@themanyinone6]

Your content is amazing and I am obsessed with it, thank you so much for all your work! The basis for some not liking Rhaegar is because he 'cheated' on Elia, but I think GRRM gives us little clues that Elia might've at least not been against it. He literally tells her there has to be a third child even though Elia can no longer have a child, he's pretty much saying 'I'll have a third child but since you can't have it, then I'll go have it with someone else'. It also means she knew about the prophecy with how openly he tells her about the song in the vision. Oberyn, Elia's (closest) brother takes paramours, has bastards. Oberyn himself who was present in Harrenhal yet he shows no open 'hate' for him, only the Lannisters. It's reminiscent to how Ned almost defends Rhaegar when he says he didn't know Rhaegar as one who frequented brothels. Doran wanted to wed Arianne to Viserys. And I'm sure I'm missing more things here but they are all little things that a lot of people, being biased by our own modern views of society and the standardization of monogamy, see this as 'oh, he's an *****' and disregard these clues, which in all his writing, has always been GRRM's way of giving us glimpses of other truths. Just his own describing them as 'Complex' means that it's not the typical marriage we are used to in our modern society.

[@DavidLightbringer]

exactly, I think In Deep Geek has done great work on this topic, I have little doubt Elia knew what he was about

[@rianbeegles3349]

There is a theory that when Rhaegar just rode off and disappeared after the tourney and Aegon's birth, he rode off and went straight to Lyanna to try to protect her. We know for a fact that Aerys was paranoid about the identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, hence why he sent Rhaegar after them. He thought this person was there as a threat to him. Now it's pretty well suspected that this was when Rhaegar and Lyanna first met and likely at the very least a friendship and mutual respect was shared between them. I think it's probably safe to say that after the tourney they corresponded for several months. Anyway, the theory is that Aerys somehow found out that Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree (possibly through these letters) and sent people out to bring her to him. Considering he saw her as a threat and had no scruples torturing and killing nobles, this was a real danger to Lyanna. So imagine Rhaegar hears of this, panics and grabs his own guards, and goes to find her and to bring her to safety, hence why she was taken to Dorne. I think it sounds plausible when you hear the theory as a whole. I think In Deep Geek also did videos about this theory in his Robert's Rebellion video playlist. Anyone who hasn't listened to them should. I highly recommend every video of that playlist.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yeah that IDG playlist is money, especially for the timeline stuff (which I don't like to spend as much time on of course). And yes I think that theory about Aerys and Rhaegar is plausible for sure.

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

If we consider that Ned (which should be the man that hates Rhaegar most instead of Robert) don't have bad thoughts about Rhaegar, then I'm pretty sure that THIS is what really happened!

[@MrFredstt]

@@PedroLucas-mg5jeWell, that and also, for Ned, the war was because his family were murdered by the mad king. I think a lot of Lords fought the war simply because they wanted to get rid of Aerys' and stop his madness and only Robert was so singularly obsessed with Lyanna

[@lewdogsk8er]

Excellent stream, I expect much and more to come of ‘Rhaegar’s Reading Room’. Have we explored the possibility of Rhaegar being a dreamer? It’s interesting that he came out to train at the normal wake up time versus the normal reading time... I’ve never had a life changing experience that had to wait until morning lol.

[@dragonmiko]

The thing that I think ppl don’t really think about in the prince who was promised prophecy is that if it was translated wrong cause dragons are not exactly male or female. (Most likely self fertilizing) then the prophecy doesn’t say prince or princess at all. It says dragon. A promised dragon to fight the long night. So no wonder the targs thought it was their line. Since they were the last dragons. Now words can have multiple meanings. But it implies that in old Valeria dragon and king or prince are the same word.

[@Bbychaos_]

Pre recorded was 🔥 great way to mix it up!

[@lukewestwest]

I definitely can relate to that look people give you when they don’t know what to say. After my best friend died, then 3 months after lost my little brother, and both grandparents earlier that year. It was so hard to tell myself & try to convince myself that I wasn’t Broken when everyone would look at you as damaged goods.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yep, that's the spot exactly. That's basically exactly how he described it. I spent one evening with him where he stood at his father's grave and cried and screamed at him for committing suicide, that was something I'll never forget. That was a part of his healing of course... it's tough because people know you are actually hurting but of course you don't want to dwell on that all the time. I think over time as he became an adult it wasn't such a big deal.

[@lukewestwest]

@@DavidLightbringer just got to reading this and yeah I totally agree, but people try to say time heals all.. not true. Some stuff will always hurt, BUT THATS OKAY. Also I appreciate the reply, touchy subject i know

[@chellybub]

Good stream! Wish you a lucky nameday 💜

[@romavictora]

Came in Late.... Praise GARTH !!! Thanks as ALWAYS homie g funk!!! #StayUpBrother

[@TheMrprobadass]

When you started talking about Rhaegar believing he had a calling and getting ready for it, saying he would fulfill it. I started to fear for Stannis, who is dead set completing his believed destiny. I just worry that he’ll walk in to his end.

[@garo7839]

He'll break before he bends.

[@andrzejkopalnia]

@@garo7839 Right.

[@nickbenton3545]

Robert also had a legal claim to the crown, whereas Ned didn’t. Robert’s was tenuous, but Ned had no claim. I think that’s one of the more interesting things about Robert’s Rebellion, because it follows the weirdness of real rebellions in the Middle Ages. For instance, Henry VII (who is very Robertish when combined with Henry VIII) claimed the English throne as a nephew of a previous king and because a lot of people believed he would fulfill a prophecy. Robert is interesting because he’s the grandson of Rhaelle, who I think is the only one of Egg’s kids who had legitimate issue, but Aerys II was the eldest living son of Rhaelle’s older brother. Long story short, Ned had no claim, Robert’s claim was stupid, Aerys II’s claim was clearly strong but Aerys II was The Mad King and Robert was not and the whole thing plays out well in line with the nonsense that was Medieval English law and politics.

[@kristi4113]

Henry VII wasn’t king because of Henry VI. He became king because his mother was ALSO a Lancaster, the great-granddaughter of John of Gaunt. That’s where he got his bloodlines, his mother. Henry VI was his father’s half-brother through Catherine Valois.

[@okdude8215]

robert didnt have a claim but in the absence of any Targaryen candidates the grandmother he had was better than no relation to the blood line so it had to do. But it wasnt a claim like without the rebellion he couldnt press any claims he had none.

[@GreyWasteTim]

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" definitely fits for characters like Dany, Rhaegar, and Egg. Great stream LML. Sad I missed it live but family, duty, honor and all that. Any questions I may have had about Rhaegar got covered. When you get to the (F)Aegon steam though... boy howdy am I gonna have opinions on that kid.

[@JD-610]

First off loved the video. I typically go for LML videos as my source of ASOIAF lore. Keep on with the solid work. Also nice haircut.

[@RedCloudGawdian]

Great stream, just fifty something minutes into it, and I must say Jaehaerys did not die at Summerhall, he was still king during the War of the Ninepenny Kings and Westerosi kings serve for life, meaning Egg never abdicated.

[@mayasixtus1573]

The pre-recorded parts are great fun! If they make the streams easier and aren't too time consuming the please keep going. No pressure if they are too much anything and bring stress to you.

[@pauldaskal9510]

Deftones/Radiohead....good Taste brother...Love your channel !!! you Preston, GreyArea, and InDeepGeek are the best ASOIAF content providers out there!!

[@nadiasouthiere7908]

Rhaegar Targ , Love 💕 that character, he’s mysterious, I’m very happy 😃 to learn more about him! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Thanks for the stream LML and Happy Birthday ahead of time 🎂🥳😉🙋🏼‍♀️🇨🇦

[@RK-dc2es]

Being born during the tragedy that wiped out the vast majority of your family would definitely influence your outlook/personality, but I think the fact that Rhaegar's surviving relatives for most of his life were limited to a deranged abusive dad and a beaten down mom had to have made his situation so much worse. No familial closeness, love, affection, etc. No siblings or cousins his age to relate to. Yeah I'm sure there were kids his age at court, but his position as a Prince would make it difficult to relate to them as actual peers. He eventually gains a little brother, but Rhaegar was an adult by then. You'd just have a guy you're scared of and a lady who's too depressed to be emotionally present. You'd invariably grow up feeling extremely isolated and lonely. You'd likely think "What would my childhood have been like if I'd still had a wide support network of relatives beyond my messed up parents". No wonder he was melancholy.

[@RK-dc2es]

Also, no, I think Egg read about the "Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and the son, so both die kings" ritual somewhere. GRRM says Daenerys accidentally completed the ritual by burning Drogo, Rhaego and Mirri Maz Duur in the pyre (two kings and a witch). I think Egg intended to kill himself, Jaehaerys and Jenny of Oldstones (two kings and a witch) in the wildfire but either Dunk stopped it or Jenny of Oldstones' escape from Summerhall threw a wrench in the works. I don't think it would matter to Egg that he and his immediate heir would die, they needed the dragons beyond implementingEgg's policies, they needed them to 1. maintain unchallenged Targaryen supremacy 2. kill The Others when the Long Night came. I could see the two of them willing to sacrifice their lives if it meant ensuring the survival of their house and Westeros as a whole in the long term.

[@DavidLightbringer]

can't wait to find out

[@anapaulalacerda4077]

I really pity Jon. He starts out thinking he knows nothing about his mother and being upset about it, only to (hopefully soon) find out he actually knows nothing about either of his parents and, in fact, knows less about his father then he knows about his mother.

[@amynurss1375]

Catching up now. Stuck in the hills of PA earlier without WiFi. Great stream!

[@TheNoodleIncident]

And they frequently mention the Baratheon connection to the Targs, which I think is what tilted the scales in Robert's favor vis a vis becoming king.

[@bigbangrafa8435]

I think ultimatelly Rhaegar was just like Robb Stark: young and irresponsible, but ultimatelly not deserving of the end he got. Also, It's a real shame that there were no Dragons left during his lifetime, he would have been an excelent Dragonlord.

[@MrFredstt]

I agree. Not bad or evil, but foolish and misguided

[@sesquipedalophobic]

It struck me that it could be cool for you to do one with Quinn on this. Because he’s less Rand Al Thor and maybe more Paul Atreides. Or the risk of prophecy arriving early, and of trying to force prophecy - where reality will itself rebel and you get a weird imbalanced timeline.

[@DavidLightbringer]

hey that's actually a great comp! I'll mention it to Q and see what he says :)

[@sesquipedalophobic]

@@DavidLightbringer Hopefully a future stream! In the Dune myth Paul was supposed to be a girl who would be married to a Harkkonnen heir to create the Kwisatz Haderach, but Jessica (a Bene Gesserit concubine) feels sorry for the Duke who just lost his son in an assassination attempt by his wife (another similarity to Rhaegar - wife and son dead and gets new prophetic heir with magic blood woman) so Jessica gives him another son. So there’s the part of the prophecy arriving early and then the spice activating something in the blood to take it to a whole other level. The other is if Jon becomes an Other, and the idea that Paul won’t face the destiny of the Golden Path so his son Leto II has to become the God Emperor worm, losing his humanity, subjugating his people for a few thousand years, to fulfill the prophecy.

[@briceslorene8760]

Another great video, with deep through and amazing analysis and this more questions to be answered...... thank you for this again lml

[@FieryReborn]

It's nice to see someone in the ASOIAF community not hating on Rhaegar for no reason.

[@Nooooooooooooooooooooo7913]

I’ve become obsessed with your channel lately, just preparing for House of the dragon, such good content! I really want to go back and read all the books now.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Right on! This Rhaegar stream was a blast

[@inaruboricua]

Love you for being so genuine and hilarious. Was reading some dark statistics when I heard your prelude comments about not interrupting Raegar Reading with commentary and I fell out laughing.

[@GoldenXBoots]

Loved the pre-recorded bits! And the drawings during the stories.

[@therunningman_]

This livestream was super fun!

[@fluencer]

I have a dark theory, here it goes: I think Rhaegar finds out that he was intended to be a sacrifice, but the ceremony was disrupted (possibly by Dunk) and Rhaegar was saved, but when he finds out, he feels very guilty, not just because of survivor's guilt, but also because, if we go by the logic of people like Melisandre, Stannis (and possibly Egg), what is one baby's life against that of an entire kingdom? So Rhaegar may have felt like, he owes his life to his dead family members, because if only he had been allowed to be killed, his family needn't have died and maybe they could have become dragonlords again (messed up I know, hear me out), and also that he owed his life to the entire kingdom, because they might have had a better future if Egg was able to bring back dragons. As a side note, Egg's belief in bringing back dragons seems more to be about Targaryen glory than actually benefiting the kingdom. TWOIAF says that his intention to bring back dragons was to achieve more stability and bring peace, but it's very obvious from history that having dragons can eventually lead to a lot of destruction. It's like the countries trying to argue that they are making nuclear weapons to maintain peace. Aegon wanted dragons since he was a kid, not to benefit anyone, just seemed to have been a Targaryen obsession he picked up from uncles and brothers. And when he grew up, maybe his glory-seeking ambitions for getting dragons sublimated into an obsession for dragons but "for the realm". This is all to say he just found a good excuse to spend lots of resources and effort into bringing back dragons. He probably believed it himself too since he grew to become a good king and cared about his people. Back to Rhaegar, maybe when little Rhaegar found out that he was intended to be a sacrifice that would "make the world a better place", and that didn't happen, he made it his life's mission to "make the world a better place". Maybe, he actually believed in Egg's dream, and that Egg was justified in doing what he did. Why did Ned fight the Kingsguard? Maybe, the last time, the Kingsguard couldn't be persuaded to go along with their monarch because Dunk was a true knight unlike the picture-perfect false-steel white knights of Aerys' Kingsguard.

[@thelaughingstormbornagain1297]

I tried to explain the same 'the dragon has three heads' thing to my girlfriend and it didn't work out as I'd hoped it would. It really didn't help when I kidnapped someone's betrothed causing a massive war. I guess I learned my lesson.

[@llJeshooinessll]

This stream was amazing as always!!!

[@wyzasukitan]

1:21:41 easy. the acoustic guitar hasn’t been invented in Westeros yet and Rhaegar needs an instrument for the sadboi ~aesthetic~ (tbh the way Rhaegar is described makes me think of broody moody Shawn Mendes with a silver wig and heavy eyeliner 😭😭 no wonder he had all the high ladies and a couple lords fangirling)

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Fantastic video. The pre-recorded segments were great, especially the one about Summerhall.

[@D0ubledoublechexchex]

hahahahah love the fake out with the muted, youre freaking hilarious and awesome

[@hinakhodiyara7883]

Great stream. I especially loved the in character readings. Appreciate it, thank you.

[@markdaniel5784]

great stream, LML sets the bar high!

[@cellardoor5564]

Great material, swear I watch this channel every day now! I really believe bloodraven has been orchestrating all of these events to produce azor ahai, despite the downfall of his house. Really interested to see what twow reveals about his intentions. Love the chapter reads too! 👍

[@eziowayne]

Amazing stream! Made me laugh and ponder all at once!

[@zacharygrinacoff9543]

A+ on the prerecorded readings!

[@TuathaTuna]

What wonderful ASOIAF stuff!

[@akiramado9198]

I think danny is rhegars daughter. I hadnt read the house of the undying chapter in a good long while and idk thats the vibe i get especially in the vision where rhaegar is saying the prphecy and saying the dragon has 3 heads and staring at danny. All those visions 3 is the magic number and they even say right to her daughter of 3. Ive nevee been on board with this theory but years later knowing what i know the vibe is just screaming.

[@Aezeus]

"Bris-bn" not "bris-bane"

[@moodian226]

Lotta good quotes in here to help Aegon’s Prophecy recent reveal not feel forced or contrived for the show.

[@bensonrussell7232]

Sitting here with Garth laughing at these pre records! Great stream man

[@freckles0829]

So happy I found this channel...I can't get enough of the mythology surrounding ASoIaF!! Thank you for all you do 👏👏👏 Obsessed with "Rhaegar's Reading Corner," though that wig is straight busted, lmao!! Wouldn't have it any other way 😁

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh yeah that first one was an OLD Halloween store wig hahaha

[@DrAwesome43]

LOL Radiohead is perfect for Rhaegar - ‘Sail to the Moon’ is a song written for a newborn infant that laments the world he is born into and the burden he has to potentially save the world from natural disaster… very fitting for his character

[@preludetak]

I know its soo off topic, but why do some people in the series mention "ok we have enough food for the winter" . They don't know how long it will be x) mega good analysis about rhaegar!!!

[@GullibleTarget]

The measters record the length of each winter. Perhaps they just look at how much provision there was during the longest recorded winter and calculate how much would be needed to survive a 10+ year winter.

[@lhillenburg]

Weren't the Whents into magic (and maybe prophecy)? I think Lyanna stayed with them after the tourney. Maybe they tutored her or provided a cover for Rheagar to visit her. Also, maybe Howard Reed took her to the God's eye and they told her stuff. There must have been something going on during that time to persuade her to go with Rhaegar. Also, like LML says, Lyanna is a straight-up bad ass and I don't think she would allow herself to be easily or quietly abducted.

[@kevinvest9693]

Rheagar has best pr department in Westeros lol. Hes screws up everything get thousands kill including his entire house, and everyone loves him

[@GullibleTarget]

He is a Westerosi Meghan Markle🤭

[@baldbeardedbassist]

The way Trogdor's theme started playing in my head 0.003 second after you said the words "dragon person" 🤣☠️

[@SavagesInMyTown]

i dont think egg brought everyone together at summerhall to sacrifice them to wake the dragons. I like the theory that the maesters have been involved in a generational conspiracy to end the targaryen line

[@zebulonshiffert5617]

Great as always LML. Thanks for your work

[@kaiw522]

Yes LML please do a Faegon stream!!

[@sanjaydodia8959]

"We got fat king Robert" hahaha 😂😂😂

[@surreallysam]

“Read the quote or else I tell everyone what you did.” That took me by surprise! Luckily it’s slow at work so no one was around to hear me cackling at it.

[@KitOfTheWeirdWoods]

There's probably something to the fact that we have Rhaegar (like Rhaenys), Viserys (like Visenya), but Daenerys instead of Aegon, but I can't quite work it out. Also re: Rhaegars kids, would this make Jon a Viserys or an Aegon?

[@DavidLightbringer]

Viserys, by that logic, but I'm not necessarily sold that the names had to be repeated. The double Aegon naming doesn't make sense though, I always like the Jon's name is Aemon idea

[@KitOfTheWeirdWoods]

@@DavidLightbringer Oh definitely agree on preferring Aemon. I wonder if Daenerys not being named after Aegon I, unlike fAegon supports the theory around Dany not being the one to conquer Westeros or at least Kings Landing first? Also her dragons not having an Aegon inspired name, but a Drogon instead. Actually now that I've put it all together it is interesting that of all the comparative names, which Rhaegar was insistent upon for his kids, and I suppose was a coincidence he and his brother had the names they did (?) the only Aegon we have is the likely fake. I agree that the names are not necessary, it would be a bit silly if the story only had people with the same names doing the same things exactly, but it is interesting that there is no concrete contemporary Aegon figure by that name. Then again, Viserys, Rhaegar and Rhaenys are all dead, so maybe it is right that the not Aegon figures are the ones that matter in the grander scheme?? Still curious about the dragons though. #DrogonIsAegon ??

[@dragonmiko]

I think rhaegar saw the death of himself and his family in his dragon dreams. That’s why he changed his mind that the promised prince was his son not him. But he knew these same dreams were what killed his family. Trying to make the future happen. And why he seemed so sad. That’s what his sad songs were about: his dreams.

[@dustin628]

What if Rhaegar getting to Lyanna was actually a rescue mission? Its very possible the mad king found out that Lyanna was the laughing knight (who aerys wanted found and killed.) Since Rhaegar knew it was Lyanna he went with the mission to capture her but when they found her Rhaegar and his Kingsguard killed the soldiers loyal to Aerys and Lyanna went with him to safety. The battle could easily look like a kidnapping to onlookers. Just an interesting theory I recently heard.

[@SY-xq3ni]

Praise Garth! Shake the algorithm gods! Another great character stream from LML!

[@thegreatpage5912]

Similar to World War 1 being the Great War, I don't think it was called Robert's Rebellion until after the war ended and Robert ascended the throne. Just found your channel, been binging through the videos. Great stuff bro.

[@lathanandrews417]

I’d love it if the prophecy wound up being lyrics to a Grateful Dead song 😂