Firing Range Ep. 64 - BUNGIE INTERVIEW!

The Boys are back with Episode 64!
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Firing Range is: @falloutplays | @DrewskysChannel | @IAmCoolGuyYT | @CammyCakesYT
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[@CapitanChoripan]

You can play the staring game with Cammy during this podcast and actually loose.

[@xIbanezz]

5 months since an episode, it’s nice to see an upload from Firing Range

[@poisonpen37]

For real. This was a pleasant surprise.

[@jordoa]

general timestamps I tried to get 1:47 - updates to crucible sandbox and it becoming more like checkmate 9:54 - how will perks and fragments that involve special ammo bricks work in new special economy in pvp 12:25 - design philosophy of smgs/ARs 22:30 - effectiveness vs usage rate 23:55 - clarification on difference of attributes b/t ARs and smgs 27:25 - what lessons were learned about d2y1 meta and will the sandbox become teamshot meta 30:40 - do bungie expect hybrid weapons like revision 0, vex, and hawkmoon see an increase in usage with increase to focus on primary gameplay 33:12 - dmt in its current state 36:30 - 140 HC crit to body ratio/optimal damage falloff clarification 38:20 - special weapons that act as primaries (erianas, forerunner, etc) 42:48 - reducing forgiveness on weapons specifically 120 HCs 44:40 - resilience value and 120s: tier 7 or 8 for 3 crit vs 2 crit 1 body 45:25 - resilience overall: bringing the needed values almost across the board down 50:08 - precision instrument and overshield on HC 51:54 - purpose of rapid fire shotguns in pvp 54:40 - do the new health and damage values give underperforming weapons better performance 56:30 - wishender/devil’s ruin kill triggers vs exotic perk effectiveness 59:00 - bow usage, fighting lion, and other niche “oppressive” or “cheesy” weapon philosophy 1:03:44 - glaive usage for both pvp and pve 1:06:15 - putting cascade point on more weapon archetypes 1:09:07 - deterministic recoil: how it’s been received and putting it on more weapons 1:12:14 - exotic weapon catalysts being made but not being released bc of weapon strength 1:13:35 - last word catalyst myth 1:14:58 - checkmate weapon ttk being brought into base game 1:16:30 - prophecy weapon element changes being retroactive 1:17:03 - AE retrospective 1:24:13 - where does AE go in the future 1:27:27 - will there be more aggressive burst hand cannons + buffs to the archetype 1:29:22 - what would merc make if given free reign to make a cool new weapon 1:35:00 - possibly removing or reducing flinch 1:36:50 - what does fan fire on last word do 1:38:26 - reducing the effectiveness of opening shot particularly on one-hit specials 1:42:23 - more party type game modes 1:44:58 - hardware gamemode 1:46:03 - where is the strike team aiming for overall crucible balance and feel 1:47:49 - plans for big team battle type activities in crucible 1:49:56 - new maps size 1:51:43 - why there are so many nodes and parameters in crucible 1:55:12 - what factors affect a player’s skill bracket 1:57:49 - why use fireteam based matchmaking 2:04:17 - how can a low-kd player be high ranked in comp 2:10:53 - comp retrospective 2:12:30 - snake draft matchmaking 2:14:47 - capping win/loss min/max values in comp 2:19:19 - collision gamemode 2:22:17 - craftable hawkmoon? 2:23:48 - does the special ammo system debuting in collision gamemode have any deeper meaning 2:26:14 - gutshot in the updated pvp sandbox 2:28:16 - box breathing on 180 HCs

[@MavicAVF]

You are a godsend

[@Nicherie]

Thank you!

[@gxnto]

cammy looks like he is in a rly intense trials match

[@justinkidder6872]

No white tank for Merc? I feel so robbed.

[@jayjay6156]

Merc is corporate now. lol

[@stephennelson4954]

Aztecross sent me here. Can’t wait to see what Bungie’s resident meta number cruncher has for us.

[@Tigerbro6]

cammy death stare

[@adamhowe3668]

Bungie are lucky to have Merc he is so informed and you can see he is passionate about what he does.

[@I_justlivethedream]

I come back here to listen to Merc saying AR's wont be the meta when i noticed that the most used weapons this past Trials weekend was the Prosecutor AR and Summoner AR.

[@FrostSe7en]

Deterministic recoil really kneecaps Belisarius-D badly... just throwing that out there on the deterministic recoil discussion.

[@gentle_j84]

Love it or hate it, it's really cool to see/hear from members of the PvP team who have a very clear philosophy of where they want to go with things. I feel like the players where left in the dark in the past in regards to changes whether they be good or bad. Now, even if I disagree with something, I still have an understanding of why they did it and what the expected outcome is. The recent layoffs must've been soul crushing, but the people that remain are doing a good job with what they have.

[@joeldesormeaux]

Welcome back guys! Thanks for another episode!

[@ausomegamer12345]

Podcast starts at 1:55

[@pyropeddie]

1:27:27 Really glad I got an answer to my question here. Also thanks for agreeing with me Fallout 😂. Super exited for the aggressive burst changes and the 2 new ones dropping in final shape. Shame the 2nd half of my tweet wasn’t included about aggressive fusions. Guess they’re just dead in the water and won’t get a chance of a rework 😅 Understandable of course. Unless super copium its because its being talked about internally but can’t be discussed (super unlikely 😢)

[@zealouswarden7439]

Can I just say the philosophy on the 140 hand cannons forgiveness nerf is excellent. Has been needed for a while. 140 and 120 hand cannons IMO have always been able to push their range a little bit too much for a handheld weapon. Perfectly acceptable as a cover to cover, Semi mid-range weapon. I love to see that forgiveness at range get reduced a little bit. It sounds like this might be the perfect balance for them.

[@wethepeople8280]

100%. Pulses have been completely sidelined when they are functioning at the exact same ranges. At least now pulses can maintain ttk a tad bit further than hcs again.

[@lorehound480]

Comp is the best playlist in Destiny rn

[@aidynladouceur8369]

15:05 A HISTORICAL DOCUMENT OF ALL BALANCE CHANGES! Now that's something i'd absolutely love to see. Would be so interesting to see the direction everything has been in across different metas. (also since this was leading into the smg discussion, while i do think they simply need to experience more recoil and make optimial ttks rare with them, similar to sidearms currently, just not as harsh. The big outlier is 10000% PKs, the fact they give all their benefits, at no cost, at no activation requirement, and has 100% uptime, its unmistakably what pushes smgs over the line. No other weapon specific exotic does as much for their weapon as PKs, and those ones that are closest to, have their main effect locked behind some activation req, like being low hp. Reducing body shot dmg on the weapons doesn't matter as much when players are gifted free headshots for running a single exotic)

[@jaredchumley9405]

I wish you guys would keep going. I love this podcast. Maybe pick up TV, ascendant nomad, or Aztecross.

[@garrettviewegh9028]

Just dropped by to leave a suggestion: New weapon archetype? Crossbow. Primary and energy based, and maybe one Heavy (that’s an exotic), crossbow. Not like Found Bloodline. I mean, a big, crossbow, like the void powered ones the Scorn snipe so many Guardians with. Two-handed. One for each slot.

[@Blaze-710]

Had no idea this guy made my favorite new perk. Thanks for PI Merc

[@joemurray]

On a personal note, would love if you all did a podcast once a month even just to talk about your impressions of the game / what you’d been using- love having merc provide this insight though - great podcast

[@folawn]

Love this. More episodes of Firing Range, please?

[@Purple_Freedom_Ninja]

'Players with good aim can overcome the downside of gut shot straight'. Okay sure, but if they're so accurate, why would they be using gut shot?

[@josev7861]

Thank you Bungie

[@fpsgoku4207]

The best question i have rn is why cant my kill tracker transfer to the crafted dmt when my og one has so many.

[@chibbzy5045]

Cammy 1000 yard stare

[@boatsfa2015]

I knew as soon as these changes were coming, it was Merc. Lets see how good he is.

[@resentfusion5634]

goat Merc hyped for the changes

[@TheDaarklink]

As a Wish-Ender main, I would rather they rework it by removing the true-sight exotic perk and replacing it with one similar to Vex Mythoclast's perk. One where you have to get multiple final blows and then you will receive an overcharged shot that can one-shot. Since it still will have its long draw-time, low reload, and low handling, it would be balanced. I feel like that would be a much better change than keeping the true-sight since no one likes to fight against wall hacks in general.

[@pure_carnage]

As a bow man I was sad but I feel better. I'm not a wall hacks bow guy tho that's just stinky.

[@bumponalog5001]

Cross sent me, looking forward to listening.

[@phamethetrue]

So much dead air 😂

[@calicoflo]

The Wishender/Devil's Ruin question was mine, I really appreciate Mercules going in depth to answer it. Thanks

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Which is so hypocritical considering they massacred Young Ahamkara's Spine by making that exact change.

[@calicoflo]

@@Lorentz_Driver I was hoping they would massacre both weapons also. I see no value in having the wishender player being able to constantly feed info to their team as a positive. But I can appreciate the honest response even if I don't agree.

[@Nicherie]

Cryosthesia is nippy in pvp. I love it.

[@AtlasFalls]

Lmao. Skill check? Cloudstrike has entered the chat.

[@thejman12305]

Is cammy taking something 😂😂

[@patrickarraes4422]

59:20 yeah, you hit bows very hard. We cant use it as an agressive play, why can smg and handcannon have a space but when you have this amazing bow gameplay they kill it because of swapper. Just make swap speed to primary slower, this just killed the bow style completely. You cant half draw, you cant melee + bow, you cant finish players while they run because you cant run and draw. Make it at least the draw speed faster

[@MikeYt673]

Ayo wardens law buff alone got me excited

[@Rawho323]

Thought drew was shirtless lmao

[@nemomtz]

Love that they dont want an auto rifle meta /s

[@scoty_does]

Bring back flawless pool! Do something about the stomp zone for flawless!

[@Coda-jj]

Sorry I disagree. I stopped playing because it sucked. New approach is better

[@connorsarkissian3095]

Precision instrument was already best in slot for igneous 4th column. It can 3 crit ressed players os titans and was a pseudo range extender. I love that perk. It really is a mix of head seeker and under over for handcannons.

[@dylanmiller1140]

Saying best in slot when golden tricorn exists is CRAZY

[@connorsarkissian3095]

@@dylanmiller1140 that’s season specific though. 2 tapping won’t be a thing soon

[@TheDapperTapper]

@@dylanmiller1140 Hit three crits with Precision or get two kills with Tricorn. I know which I'm going for.

[@Dempdawg11]

Whats that thing on the bottom right rectangle

[@saltycracker0]

No more 5 month breaks 😭

[@cptenn9419]

Kudos to DCP and Bungie for making this podcast happen, I greatly appreciate the communication and dialogue. And despite some of the tone below, I do appreciate the work that is going into PvP and the goals of the new sandbox. Meh, that design philosophy towards more niche/less played playstyles is kinda lacking. Its basically "We are fine completely burying a weapon and maybe touching it if it stays at 0% usage at some date in the future". It would be one thing if there were actual significant changes that occurred regularly, but we have seen the proof for 10 years, where it takes forever to revisit such things, and often even if something is revisted it can ruin what made it unique to begin with, making it bland. Sure. Maybe the 10% FL damage nerf(not including indirect Hp shift which is a second nerf) in testing didnt work out and it needed more nerfing(assuming it wasnt just a passing fad that would fade as people found other things more effective/consistent). Why not try tuning other things first, like reducing blast radius and/or shifting damage back to direct impact(IE require more skill to use the weapon to its full effect, the entire point of the greater sandbox shift), before just doubling the damage nerf amount. Nerf handling/stow to bring its Blint closer to the rest of the sandbox(which would be worse than Bow Blint as is) Hell if spamming is such a concern it could become the first primary weapon to get limited reserves again since infinite reserves was implemented. The irony is, that with the changes that is done to it, the only viable playstyle is team spamming it, the very thing they targeted. Outside of that, Fighting Lion is basically worse than it was in Year 1, when it was the ONLY "special weapon in the primary slot"(in a double primary exclusive sandbox) and was considered the worst exotic in the game. It does almost the same damage as it did back then when the sandbox TTK was significantly slower(thus its chunk damage more valuable back then), meanwhile since player health is higher than Year 1, and it has to compete against significantly faster Primary TTKs and intermittent Specials. Hopefully I am wrong. And sandbox team will actually make more frequent adjustments and tunings of weapons that fall behind. But based on track record, we might see some slight adjustment in 2025 that makes it slightly viable again. Anyways a dev quote in a previous FL nerf, did not age well: "We’ll be keeping an eye on this, but believe it’s in a good place with this change (and note that we’re not going to over-nerf an Exotic with its own subreddit)."

[@walterbrown8293]

Wish the subject of cheating had been broached. Great video!

[@RobmsTheM4A1]

It'd be much appreciated if the 56:43 to 57:35 philosophy would be applied to PvE as well. It would be so nice to have more than one non-meme exotic piece for each subclass at a time since someone can't seem to put the Nerfahorn down over there.

[@immortalvaash]

So SMGs are literally useful for cammy only 😂

[@crabbypatty10fefrefe]

360p?

[@PkBearMan]

No tank top? Imposter!! 😅

[@bb6456]

Please add nunchucks and that sidearm shotgun.

[@Yeeeaintgondoit]

noice.

[@notsure5111]

As a voice in the wilderness, I want to say that not everybody favors perfect airborn accuracy. I despise airborne gunfights and prefer to stand and shoot.

[@ruperto805]

Yea I can’t have fun when I’m 3v3 or 6v6 lobby balancing is hard. As the top player to much relies on my shoulder to carry the rest of my team . I can’t have fun unless I don’t mind loading every game and tanking my KD. At least I’ll be rewarded now for trials

[@theshaxxtastic998]

Strong disagree that Comp needs Obj mode. Comp needed loot.

[@miller8886]

Woooo

[@KeyZ1086]

Still avoiding the elephant in the room, when will they openly discuss the rife cheating and 3rd party harware ruining the game...

[@n00bstude]

Take action against XIM and SMGs would go to the dirt

[@savagenw477]

Would be nice but they can't even make 3v3 stable

[@joemurray]

Would love void overshields / titan barricades to be addressed. I feel sandbox be in a good state after that

[@tgat9475]

Can you put the names of the guests under their squares? Idk whos who...

[@B0redZer0]

Top down, left to right. FalloutPlays, Mercules (dev), CammyCakes, Cool Guy (absent), Drewskii

[@hyper_nova09]

Not everybody has conditional finality, unfortunately

[@DeathsIntent96]

RoN is the featured raid this week, get farming!

[@quentinb734]

i hope smgs are balanced now

[@mikehannon279]

Did you not listen to what he said about them

[@Ibdirty05]

What’s considered a “high skilled player”?

[@scoty_does]

FP!

[@darthspoompls]

lol I’m always the worst player in the lobby

[@justenough215]

Can anyone here the audio?

[@art_7151]

No, I think something is wrong

[@day1player]

why helmet mods?? take away your targeting for AE? ..... Why not boot mods? We have nothing on boots

[@ssjronin3972]

"Smgs don't favor low skill players" .. that doesn't solve anything 🙃. Smgs have been meta for years now... Bury them already like every meta in history. Rotate it out already.

[@miller8886]

Sad Bowman noises...

[@5ylokTheDefiled]

Dude they forgot to ask merc why my parents got divorced 😡

[@peterbraudt7894]

3 people on this look related lmao. AE is just Aim assist. All the complaints are just people who are realizing their true aim lol.

[@fpsgoku4207]

Hes very right about smhs . My newer friend cannot use an smg to save there life. When youre onlyhigh skill you dont see the actual issues with things. Smgs really do suck if yiure not a titan

[@krisdzeel6408]

I don't get how its suprising to Fallout that if they put a mechanic of an exotic behind a kill trigger less people would use it. Its q no brainer, why would you run a perk thats only active a small fraction of the time when you can run one that is helping you 100% of the time.

[@Fatlumpthe1st]

1:05:00 Stasis Glaive mentioned?! After two years are we finally going to get a kinetic slot glaive?! Please don't be joking, plllleeeeaaassseee 😭

[@novadrewtheworld5031]

Probs the heavy one lol

[@unrlntingghost6120]

We have i sidearm with desperado liminal vigil

[@Coda-jj]

Your logic for nerfing peacekeepers is off. Stompees has more usage, ophidian aspects has more usage. Why not nerf them ahead of peacekeepers? Give titans a better neutral weapon exotic(because we don’t have one) and we’ll stop using peacekeepers Stompees are great for sidearms and shotguns so they’re basically a weapon exotic like ophidian aspects and peace keepers

[@eduardors9375]

Its not about usage is about effectiveness

[@Coda-jj]

@@eduardors9375 well than give us a decent neutral exotic and I garentee people will stop using pc. Only thing we have right now are dunemarchers. I’d use a weapon exotic over those if they gave titans better options

[@eoIoIe]

stompees are nerfed and u have dunes. hunter equivalent to pk is tricksleeve, but pk outclasses them in every way. ophidians have also been nerfed, they're pretty mediocre. rn pk's are the best movement and weapon exotic period. id also like more passive/neutral exotics, but for all classes.

[@MrLinkster7]

They are seriously surprised that Kill trigger perks are almost useless for most of the playerbase in PVP? This was a shock? Really? This shows how out of touch they really are with the majority of pvp players. It's kind of embarrassing. He doesn't even get that he should be embarrassed by that, in how many videos has he been speaking from supposed authority on PVP... Lol then he has opinions on trace rifles, but 1 min later admits to not have used them in a while or tested them with recent changes. I wish we had content creators that didn't just coast, and actually put some effort into things. Hearing the bungie developers perspective on res is the same one I have been called an idiot for a bunch of times online is pretty gratifying.

[@xkimber]

Make titan baracade blacked out unless you have citens on

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Is every bungie employee full of it?

[@Matt0purdy]

Is everything you say stupid?

[@PaulyP_13]

Disagree with Fallout’s sentiment on comp. I am not touching it until they remove countdown.

[@AGTHAOG]

Smgs and sidearms need range nerfs

[@PRO_Krastinator]

Tell Mercules we don't want to do math in pvp. Why do we need a meter progress for special ammo and "Quests to points"? This is bad design! Also we need a 2-3 round cap in special weapons so I can't hoard 10 rounds and rape the lobby! The rest of the changes to special ammo are fine with me.

[@delian6411]

Smg's being the least effective for low skill players? Okay? Is that because those low skill players can't get a target lock smg? Even so, holy shit just fucking remove the fucking perk. It is a fucking terrible idea as a weapon perk.

[@eoIoIe]

It's pretty much being removed.

[@ravage9050]

Still need to hit smg's

[@wethepeople8280]

They have the data and we can see usage in trials report. It’s not a problem. Hand cannons have doubled smg kills every single week of trials. Adapt

[@ravage9050]

Are we playing the same game?

[@thehungarywaffleinc.7775]

I think the reason they’re so deadly despite the nerfs is because most of us play pvp very aggressively so they’re always in range

[@wethepeople8280]

@@ravage9050 I mean I’m on console and am quite competitive and that’s my opinion. Idk

[@ravage9050]

Most stacked teams are running at least 2 Titan smg, for a reason

[@crabbypatty10fefrefe]

Use a side arm? On PC???? Side arms are hot garbage on MnK. Still not sure why you guys think it's ok for some weapons to be good and some weapons to be bad depending on your input device. BAD philosophy.

[@undead12335]

Bro is so full of shit with that take on SMGs being low skill

[@wethepeople8280]

He never said that? It’s only the top players who are making them work real well and mostly just on pk titans. He said low skill players it’s the worst weapon they can use

[@undead12335]

@@wethepeople8280 smgs as a whole need a nerf

[@Gohma55]

They have gotten more than any other weapon and are getting more.

[@wethepeople8280]

@@undead12335 eh. Disagree. And I’m not even an smg main

[@eoIoIe]

@@wethepeople8280 tgl nerf is enough, smgs are fine.

[@sergekavaler]

Stop to do 🗑️ ur ideas and nerfs kill game

[@jormungandr4690]

There is no way SMG are more problematic to use at lower lvl than HCs. Pretty much every low skill lvl player I ever came across was dogshit with HC, but literally even handless players can play SMG void titan and just press forward

[@quentinb734]

agree i can’t believe this