Everybody wanna be Black now?: An honest conversation on Afro-Latinx identity

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[@ForHarriet619]

Don't miss the after show on Patreon! Patreon.com/ForHarriet Buy my sweater: amzn.to/36fLivj

[@kic.7679]

For Harriet You were so on point with the stigmas attached to being just “regular” black. When black people are educated, speak multiple languages & are well-traveled, people automatically assume you’re not African American. In their minds we’re lazy and incapable of being great, basically. They hold actual Africans & others to a higher esteem. And in turn, Africans & others begin thinking they are better...✌🏾

[@melinatedvessel6840]

Was it me or dud thdy come off as the ones being victimized. In the media lately they have been THE VICTIMIZERS. FAT JOE,GINA RODRIGUEZ,EVELYN LOZADA,CYN SANTANA,AND SO ON.... WHERE WAS THE ACCOUNTABILITY? I GET THAT THEY DON'T CLAIM THEM BUT THERE USING THEM AND THEY SHLD SPEAK UP AGAINST THESE FOLKS..PUBLICLY.

[@negracaribena]

Loved this video! Can you do one with Afro-West Indians (the non-Latino Caribbean people).

[@cecetv87]

I think "blackness" should still be based on the three C's: color, consciousness, and comittment. If those 3 dont line up then blackness is nonexistent. I think that can be easily translated to whatever land mass our black folk are on. Because yes, its not fair or morally upright for those who can do it, to jump in and out of blackness when its selfishly beneficial.

[@kic.7679]

cece h Exactly! But people continue to let them glide on by... And on another part of that, some Black Americans get so happy when people claim Black. I think it validates them & makes them feel better about their own blackness. Same black folks who were cool with Rachel Dolezal claiming to be black. They were okay with it because she wanted to be a part of us rather than against. But we all know that you can be down for the cause and people and not have to insert yourself to the point of darkening your skin and wearing wigs that immolate our hair texture. Mess.

[@em.415]

She hit the nail on the head. In Brazil they live as a “racially blind” society but black Brazilians face an extraordinary amount of anti-black racism and oppression. They also had a brutal history of slavery and colonialism by the white Portuguese.

[@Ethiopified]

Yep. I lived in Brazil and I have witnessed what these ladies described so elequently. Until recently the afro Brazilians lived like second class citizens because all the discrimination was masked under this 'racially blind' notion.

[@katdeluxy9608]

Racially blind? Ha! Where? Racism is live and well in Brazil

[@khiclark31]

My mom is a black woman from Brasil

[@em.415]

Kat Deluxy Yes white supremacy is alive in Brazil but Brazil puts on a front of being racially blind. Hence the “ “.

[@mileswrider6622]

Everywhere you go they are at the bottom of the society, but you cant talk about since there is no race. But the homeless, poor on the beaches and favelas are very Black. Go see yourself.

[@lanelle.delina]

Colonialism jacked up everybody in the Americas and beyond in different ways.

[@lovegreen6679]

Danielle Sullivan that was the white man planned and it worked cause look at us we look the same but we look at each differently

[@MADNEWYORKER914]

Facts!!! It's crazy how they act when they colonized every continent. They mistreated the native of people of that land. Look at how they did the aborigines in South Africa, Australia, the Polynesians in Hawaii.

[@battlegirldeb]

People forget that the ships of enslaved Africans were being drop in Latin countries for a 100 years before they came to North America.

[@terencebarnes7393]

We talking early 1500s there was literally a African kingdom in South America by a prince after he rebelled and won. This city/kingdom lasted over 100 years.

[@karinaazul98]

Terence Barnes where in South America? Never heard of this before

[@musicismyhothotsex92]

@@terencebarnes7393 I think this was in Brazil! Mexico too.

[@terencebarnes7393]

Karina I was off with the time mid 1600s it was founded, and Brazil. His name was Ganga Zumba.

[@terencebarnes7393]

Keziah Yea you right Brazil and yea something similar happened in Mexico there is a city named after that guy.

[@msdionne.a]

Love this conversation. Regarding immigrant privilege, I understand what you were getting at, Kim. I am a "regular" black American, a "black from a distance" type black woman. However, when I lived in France, I was not "regular" black in the French context. I was "exotic", once people found out I was American. Yet, I was not a native French speaker, so I faced certain stigmas that native born black french people did not face in a culture that values speaking French without an accent. As such, I believe you can have certain privileges even as you endure challenges that others do not. This is not to negate anyone's experience. It is just to acknowledge how these systems can work.

[@ellarweegadsden8483]

France has been kind to many African Americans. That's why so many blacks moved there to live and perform back in the day. The French like American blacks. They save their racial animosity for the Africans who live there, but come from Africa.

[@UrbanAlchemystic]

@@ellarweegadsden8483 interesting and suppose the Africans there maybe African Americans in France feel bad about their privilege?

[@UrbanAlchemystic]

@@Grimloxz this was a good read. See every black has some type of privilege somewhere depending where you go. It's beyond that person's Control

[@camc5038]

It happens all the time, in every country a foreigner (except neighbors with whom they usually are lots of conflict) is "exotic" and interesting, I am mexican and study in Eastern Europe, and I can't tell you how many times I have heard the "spicy latina" shit, its annoying but I know people don't do it maliciously so I just try to erase the stereotype without taking it too personally. Its almost like a human survival mechanism of categorising and oversimplifying those things we do not understand, added to mass media pushing information to fulfil geopolitical agendas.

[@riestjames7371]

@@UrbanAlchemystic It isn't about making anyone "feel bad," it's about making sure people are aware of and acknowledge their privilege so that the way they navigate marginalized spaces is with intention, sensitivity, and respect.

[@blackmeca2901]

Definitely being “regular black” has its stigma.

[@alext3480]

@Mahogany Goddess63 it's not a narrative

[@chloenxumalo6436]

@Mahogany Goddess63 if u go to Africa... Africans are stereotyped as lazy lol. African people go to Europe and America and are then stereotyped because of name and/or accent. A stereotype doesnt necessarily translate to privilege. Even positive stereotypes can be a disadvantage in many scenarios.

[@antoniacapellaborges6566]

@Mahogany Goddess63 it’s not a narrative. We DO value education. So many of us or our parents left their countries in hopes of better opportunities for their children. That’s why it’s so valuable for us, as a why to thank them for dropping EVERYTHING they’ve known: families, friends, home, etc...Hell some have no other options but accept low paying jobs like cab drivers because their country’s degrees aren’t accepted in the West. Y’all DON'T have it worse or better, it’s global but yours is more publicized due to American politics. And you’re only "regular” in the US NOT in Canada where in Qc it’s Haitians and in Nova Scotia, Afro Canadians. In Europe Africans have a bad rep as well as Latin America and it YOU guys that are more well seen or exotic

[@loveislouderrrrr]

I’m so glad For Harriet is back. She was gone for like 3 weeks 😩

[@bryanalstoncoxing]

Same here! She always has the most thought provoking commentary

[@grayspace5638]

Subscribe to Patreon!! I literally needed my intellectual fix from her and decided to spend the coins on a REQUIRED cause 😂😂😂

[@leighmcwest9770]

100% a LOT of people don't know the correct terminology when they enter this conversation: Race, Ethnicity, Nationality, Color, Culture etc... many people use them interchangeably without knowing the difference. I hear and see the errors all the time when this topic is brought up.

[@negracaribena]

Leigh McWest OMG YES! It’s how I can be Canadian by nationality, black in terms of race, Afro-Trinidadian in terms of ethnicity and Trintonian (Toronto-Trinidadian) in terms of culture! I’m ever so grateful that these conversations are being had and people are being educated.

[@negracaribena]

Naílde Friman 1. Who are you to tell me what I am? 2. If you look this terms up you will find that it exists and is used. 3. I’m well within my rights to specify the island that my culture comes from directly. While there are overarching similarities between the region there are still significant difference, a Trinidadian is different from a Jamaican. 4. The Afro is a prefix for African, if someone was for example visibly half Indian they would use a different word. 5. Race and ethnicity are not the same thing. Black is a race not an ethnicity and since there are multiple ethnic groups in this area of the world Caribbean is not a complete ethnicity by itself.

[@negracaribena]

Naílde Friman Also, not that it’s overly important but I prefer to identify as broadly West Indian if I’m speaking in a broader sense and do not personally use Caribbean.

[@em.415]

Champagne Thompson Girl in high school I told my classmate that my mom was Canadian and this fool said “Your mom’s not Canadian she’s black” 🤦🏽‍♀️😂 I told him Canadian is not a race. I explained that my family is from Barbados and there are a lot of West Indians that immigrated to Canada. I’ve also heard many black Americans (I’m black American on my dad’s side) say things like they’re not African/Caribbean/etc they’re “regular blacks” like us. Huh? Every black person is a regular black. We have some work to do as black folk in educating about nationality vs. race vs. ethnicity.

[@negracaribena]

E M. Lol I feel you!!! I had a Chinese friend (recently over for university) once say that her boyfriend’s race was Canadian and had to explain the differences. I think it would be interesting if there was an Afro-West Indian American perspective on the Afro-Latinx in this video. I think they would bring a different perspective!

[@biancaboricua13]

This makes me smile from ear to ear, seeing Afro Latinas talking about this subject. I’m Afro Boricua and I’m glad to see the ladies here discussing racial dynamics in Latin America and the Caribbean. Edit: coming from Loíza I’m just seen as a black woman even in the US (perceived as black American). I’m not recognized as Boricua until I speak and once I do, every Puerto Rican stereotype is thrown in my direction.

[@MsCouve]

Jett R. I can totally relate. Another thing I dislike is that once people know I’m Puerto Rican, I’m stripped of my Blackness.

[@Spykedjadedragon]

Half of my family is from Loíza too

[@kaydreams6051]

I wonder if your name is Rodriguez if you have an obvious Spanish last name nobody in HR is dumb enough to just see you as just regular black.

[@kaydreams6051]

@@MsCouve So you cant be seen as black if they strip you of it once they find out you are latina.

[@biancaboricua13]

Kay Dreams I work a federal position and in a hospital. Not everyone is privy to the information from HR. With so many people in the building, they all can’t and won’t know my name (let alone my full name) unless I tell them. Also, with working near a military community, if someone does know my name there is also the assumption that my last name is from marriage and not my maiden name.

[@freudhill81]

Ugh..I was loving this but they glossed over the privilege question at the end. As a Haitian American and growing up in NY with alot of Caribbean and Latin X, I have heard the negative comments about Black Americans time and time again. I have experienced white people saying, " You are different from them (Black Americans)." I have also seen people use their ethnicity to distance themselves from their blackness. So the privilege is real. People need to remember that you can be privileged and oppressed at the same time. We as individuals all need to do the work to own our privilege and lift each other up. That's the only way we can move forward with purpose and honesty.

[@SupernaturalLove100]

I disagree though. If you are a BLACK person of a different culture living and growing up in the USA, you’re viewed as Black first without informing anyone of your culture. People fetishizing you based off your culture I wouldn’t call “privilege” when you are just as systemically oppressed as an unambiguous Black person. I wouldn’t call that a privilege but ignorance 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@JulianSteve]

@@SupernaturalLove100 Same. I agree with you. It’s like me, I never get a pass when I say I am Afro-Honduran American or my parents were born in Honduras. Some people (usually white Latinos) in school (until college) would look at me like I am stupid because they would picture me as a light brown or white skin color. I am a dark brown man and they do not picture me as a Honduran, which is why there was times I would lie about my ethnicity. I would say, I am Haitian, Jamaican, or even African American because they will not believe I am Afro-Honduran. Thank goodness I changed my ways and I am educating people on ethnicity, nationality, and race😭💯

[@sconiersclan]

It wasn’t always that way. I grew up as Afro Latino and Afro American. It was a shame to be other than African American, but the Euro;s caused such a divide to make us want to seem as if we are better, We are riding off the backs of the Afro American experience in this country. I cant ever deny my blackness even if I tried because Lighter Latinos won’t let me forget and White America either

[@MichelleSMV]

Had to click this because I’m from the Caribbean. I’m not Afro latina but some of the time I wondered why some ppl don’t consider afro Latinx ppl as black. Soo I’m really interested to learn something new here

[@jasminepearls1047]

Because a lot of them didn't consider themselves black.

[@hastalavista567]

@@jasminepearls1047 eyeroll, that doesnt stop them from having black blood

[@HonorableSienna]

Because they MOST IF NOT ALL OF THEM don’t consider themselves black and that’s what’s not being acknowledged - this is a niche movement within their communities - which makes many question - why Now

[@SisterKnight]

Anti-blackness and anti all things linked to african, is why. They want so badly to identify with the European part of the latinx experience.

[@jasminepearls1047]

@@SisterKnight I think some want to be considered mixed when some may only have 20% european like the typical AA.

[@robinlofton655]

Kim uploads, I click. Simple.

[@davydino28]

Literally! I was about to go to bed, but when I saw the new video I grabbed my headphones and sat down ready! Lol 🤣🤣

[@Itsme_1648]

Robin Lofton yes! ...and instantly hit the like button.

[@melinatedvessel6840]

Dominicans CAN'T complain about Puerto Ricans oppressing them when they DO the SAME things to Haitians..It's REALLY hypocritical and comes off as entitlement and elitism..

[@negracaribena]

I’d say that if a Dominican was vocally opposed to this in Dominican Republic they can also be upset about that one too

[@monica012077]

Not all Dominicans oppress Haitians. My grandmother who was the only dark skinned woman in her area was always nice to a group of Haitians living in a camp near our home. Every day she would greet this little girl who did all the shopping for her family because she was the only one who spoke Spanish. Such a sweet girl, I always admired how she could balance so much stuff on her head. I think a lot of Dominicans fear Haitians and the language barrier doesn't help.

[@nizbet5707]

Monica Matos but we can’t use that one instance to speak for the majority. I’m sure not all Puerto Rican’s oppress Dominicans but it doesn’t take away from the issue.

[@y0urlillyness]

I'm Dominican and I agree. I hate the hypocrisy going on over there. I don't even want to be associated with my home country sometimes because of it. They need to stop the hate and ignorance.

[@monica012077]

@@nizbet5707 You haven't a clue. My mom is a dark skinned Dominican woman who came to the US via Puerto Rico. She met my dad there and faced so much discrimination and bad treatment. Then once she got to the US she got the same treatment from other Latinos and Black people(she doesn't speak English). She also got the same treatment from my dad's family so I'm inclined to believe that most Puerto Ricans are colorist and racist.

[@oshun9747]

I love this video but I think they dropped the ball when Kim was speaking on foreign blacks having certain privileges in America because that is completely true. Just because they’re disadvantaged in their native land doesn’t mean they don’t have an advantage over black Americans when they come to America. I’m American and my family is from Jamaica. White people have literally told them “I don’t like black Americans but I don’t mind you all.” It’s not their faults but it is true.

[@aamrakamran7275]

Exactly. Sis, I have been to Canada, Australia and western Europe and the folks there have said they prefer black Americans over the Africans and Caribbeans in their countries. White Americans don't like to be reminded of slavery and Jim Crow when they look at black Americans so that is why they sweet talk foreign blacks.

[@aamrakamran7275]

Malcolm gladwell has written about the privileges foreign blacks get in America over native blacks.

[@Selanaxfanx]

Their responses reminded me of white people's rebuttals.

[@Selanaxfanx]

@@aamrakamran7275Afro-Latinxs are more easily digestible, so much truth!

[@aamrakamran7275]

@@Selanaxfanx right.

[@natashas.alford685]

Thank you so much for having me join Kimberly! And thank you Janel for being such a great panelist in this convo. Most importantly, thanks to everyone who is watching, commenting and engaging. A couple topics came up in the after show + later convos, so I'll post here for the community: 1) If there was anything I wish I could've better addressed, it would be the privilege topic. As an African-American and Puerto Rican (mainland), I sit at the intersection of communities and hear how multiple groups are perceived. Non-Black Americans *do* have privilege that frees them from the stereotypes and racism African-Americans endure. The exoticism and fetishm are real. And it's part of why some Afro-Latinxes try to distinguish themselves as "not Black like them" or say "I'm not African-American!" I didn't intend to gloss over that, so apologies if it seemed that way. But I do want to make sure that everyone's perception of Afro-Latinx isn't a light-skinned, curly-haired, mestizo trying to be down... And that people understand across Latin communities there are proud Black people, with deep ties to African traditions and roots.

[@aamrakamran7275]

Gullah geeche are deep into African tradition so it is wrong of you to say most of us do not know our original cultures.

[@aamrakamran7275]

Most non fba folks use us as a stepping stone to ascend in America and that will stop.

[@natashas.alford685]

2) Another point I wanted to make during the convo, is that many people's understanding of their blackness and identity is evolving. I took my first trip to South Africa this fall, and like a lot of other African-Americans visiting the motherland for the first time, it meant the world just to make to the continent. I don't know where my enslaved ancestors came from, but growing up in upstate New York, Africa was so far away and disconnected. And sadly, a lot of Africans were made fun of (i.e. "African b**ty snatcher" was a common joke). I feel like there's a new wave of interest and reconnection in Africa, for African-Americans in my generation. That same process is playing out for a lot of Black Latinos, who were never taught their history and never taught to love or understand the political power of their blackness. So rather than starting and ending the convo at "well you didn't claim being Black before, so why now?" for actual black latinos- I believe it's productive to teach, engage, correct and allow people to evolve.

[@natashas.alford685]

@ReesieDenise thank you for appreciating the complexity and nuances! 😩My head was spinning when I left, like "I know we left something out! I wish I explained that better!" But yes, it's a good start. 😊

[@natashas.alford685]

3) For anyone who's interested in the stories and research I mentioned about racism in Puerto Rico, both against Black Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, here are links! www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/10/police-violence-against-dominicans-in-puerto-rico-suggests-systemic-problem

[@maishaaddai1052]

“Black” Immigrants coming to America are seen differently. My husband is Ghanaian and he sees it and they are seen differently than regular Black people like me. This is speaking of US/North America

[@TheBellePerspectiveTV]

But there are stigmas around Black people in America. Sometimes it seems people from the diaspora do not want to be “associated” with Black Americans.

[@veronicacobb3036]

I agree. A racial hierarchy. Some immigrants understand and many sympathize with this power struggle but very few fight it. Nobody wants to be on the bottom.

[@TheBellePerspectiveTV]

Veronica Cobb well, said! It is a hierarchy. I have had conversations with people from countries in Africa, or folks whose roots are from the Caribbean and the question I am often asked is, “Why do black people have so many opportunities in this country and they squander them?” Then I have to remember they, while they share the African roots, share the hostility of white supremacy, share the descendants of enslaved people experience-they DO NOT share the Black AMERICAN descendants of enslaved people --so there are limitations. I wish black people across the diaspora would read the history of their fellow people. Right now, I am about to read about how Haiti gained its freedom. Next, read about slavery in Brazil and some other South American/ Central American cultures. We all need to know the entirety of slavery before we can really judge each other’s trauma.

[@veronicacobb3036]

@@TheBellePerspectiveTV I agree. My journey to connect with blacks within the Diaspora and on the continent has awaken a desire to know myself and my ancestors on another level. Our shared (entire) history should be celebrated not demonized by autrocity of slavery.

[@kafilatlawal9449]

@@TheBellePerspectiveTV agreed!

[@Amberrechelle]

DrelltheBelle right

[@jpuuts5254]

Unrelated but that sweater on you 😍 I feel like this is pretty common across other communities as well. white people will decide suddenly that they are 1/16 Native American or they have Cherokee ancestors (I believe “my great grandma was a Cherokee princess” is the common phrase) 😐 as if an ethnicity is an outfit you can wear and discard after. But at the same time, with the way genetics work it is not fair to assume someone’s makeup. So I understand both sides of the coin (not appropriating a culture or saying you can use a slur bc your great great grandparent was a certain race, but that your whole ancestry doesn’t tend to show in your face/body)

[@aniabell155]

It's their fault for making us doubt they aren't really native cuz you know "5$ indian" they got greedy with their reparation and now it's on record that some of their greatgramps were "natives".🙄

[@shortbreadgirlscout3463]

Most black people look identifiably black though. The Chinese wouldn't just claim that Neyo and Naomi Campbell were Chinese/Asian.

[@mizanna622]

And get affirmative action scholarships while claims "Cherokee" ancestry.

[@user-6K38d95gfH]

My bf's very white mother said they found records of an ancestor on the dawes role probably. I explained to her that her ancestor probably paid to be on there, that it was a mutual incentive for the tribe. They get to keep their land, make cash on the side, and keep up with US compliance since they weren't subsistence farmers before colonialism (shrinking reservations, blood quantum etc... is all a part of cultural genocide, it gets messy). My bf did a blood test and had 0% Native American, not the tests fault because my third of Native American ancestry showed up.

[@user-6K38d95gfH]

@ATL 1 not only that, in northern border tribes they kicked out their Canadian counterparts because the US government threatened to cut them off.... and the tribes get further fractured. But what can they do? It's not like they can independently trade with other nations outside the US even though technically they are a nation within a nation. All this is cultural genocide, just like how the US government intended. "Kill the Indian save the man."

[@maxineyolanda85]

Soy Hondureña & I AM immensely proud to hear this most important conversation. Had lived in the United States for 14 years and Germany for 12 years. Returned to Honduras 26 years ago. The social, political, and economic oppression of Black people is consistent worldwide. Much TRUTH is being SPOKEN by Janel and Natasha. Thank you both for eloquently and gracefully SPEAKING OUR TRUTH OUT LOUD. Our journey UPWARD continues. HalleluYAH!

[@negracaribena]

🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿

[@natashas.alford685]

Pa'lante thank you for watching and sharing your story Maxine! ❤️

[@moded_corroded8132]

I get why it's used, in the video and in the comments (One person even said they're seen as "just black" until they speak) but the term "regular Black" doesn't sit right in my spirit. There's nothing regular about the extraordinary people who have endured centuries of WS in the U.S. while being stripped of our names, language and culture and creating another beautiful one and fought, bled and died for our place on this land. Ain't nothing regular about Harriet, Martin, Frederick, Rosa, Bobby, Fannie Lou, or my father who got food dumped on him and beaten during sit-ins. BA, ADOS, DACS whichever term you use, just don't call us regular.

[@jasminepearls1047]

In the U.S. most black people do not have parents from another country. So here there is a regular black vs exotic black.

[@biancaboricua13]

My use of “just seen as black” was not to degrade the Black American community. In many instances, especially when I was in the military Black Americans and non-black Americans would say "oh, you’re just black" and things of the like. My lack of quotations can be misconstrued; I’m perceived as black American is what I’m referring to. I come from a predominantly black area of Puerto Rico and the history there shows that we identify as black (along with being the poorest on the island).

[@fantombeat7967]

as African Americans we are a separate ethic group

[@goingup9901]

Yes we are, with different experiences.

[@mc2383]

The lines between culture and ethnicity get blurred in some major cities where blacks of other ethnicities feel the need to assililate in order to get along. It's surprising at the number of rappers who are second or third generation americans.

[@negracaribena]

Exactly! Race is different from ethnicity! I’m tired of people of conflating the two

[@aamrakamran7275]

@@mc2383 we need to exclude all black foreigners. It is fba first.

[@mc2383]

@@aamrakamran7275 Then start with the legacy of BIggie Smalls (Jamaican) and NIpsey Hussle (Eritrea), and see how that goes over.

[@kalasimms4648]

Remember when Lala said she wasn't Black because both of her parents were Puerto Rican..... The anti-Blackness conversation needs to start within certain community before we start to chastise Black Americans about anything

[@unstoppableme466]

This! Because this conversation is really bothersome and starting to sound like black AA are the ones not accepting them when this entire time we have and it's the lighter/whiter folks in their own Latin communities who aren't accepting of them.

[@AkaMagenta]

Unstoppable Me Bought time somebody said somethin!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@monica012077]

Lala was speaking for herself. She doesn't get it.

[@princessmoon2656]

Maybe she meant African American. I’m playing devils advocate but Lala is from NY like me & here we say “black” instead of “African American”. Black is seen as an ethnicity more than a race. Lala’s ethnicity is Puerto Rican but her race is of African descent. So perhaps that’s why she denied being black because in NY we see the word “black” as an ethnicity as “African American”, instead of a race.

[@OraclesoftheWest]

@@princessmoon2656 i agree. I'm from Cali and we say Black for "African Americans" and Afro-Latino for those people of African descent from Latin American countries (which includes some Caribbean islanders) so her saying Puerto Rican wouldn't bother me bc they are ethnical different from us which is fine.🤷🏾‍♀️

[@essencekk]

I believe there is an absolute privilege of being "othered" black...

[@bellea8163]

I think it is definitely the case for black people from the African continent and Europe, but, I don't really see it for Afro-Latino unless we are looking at desirability. I would love to hear your thoughts on the privilege that Afro-latinos have.

[@melinatedvessel6840]

@@bellea8163 They MOST definitely DO benefit from being used as a buffer AGAINST AA.. They are allowed to and given incentive JUST LIKE Jewish or Pakistani or other nonblack poc to own the businesses in communities they DON'T live in. They are given loans to open up these businesses in these communities and they dont reinvest back in to those communities. They take the money and run just like those other non black poc. They are given these rewards thus benefiting from being used as a buffer.

[@MK-hh1vo]

@@bellea8163 It is definitely much more the case for Afro-Latinos. People like Pele and Celia Cruz are good examples of those who are "excused" from being "Black" because they have a Latin heritage. Many dark skinned Latinos go out of their way to speak Spanish in public so they'll be recognized as not "regular" Black.

[@TahtahmesDiary]

I agree with this, however will add it is definitely layered. For example, a darkskinned person wont be presumed as AfroLatinx till they open their mouth. I remember people trying to argue Amara La Negra's origin for a short time just based off her looks. But folks tend to see AfroLatinx as more "refined" than Black Americans and that's because it seems everyone has taken a vow to hate on Black Americans and our culture as though we havent been on the front lines in this crazy country for centuries smh.

[@jasminepearls1047]

@@TahtahmesDiary They know by your name.

[@alannanance8414]

Can’t this discussion turn into a series?! I would love to dive deep into each concept that plays apart in the Broader conversation of who can or should identify as black and how to stop everyone else from diving into blackness when it’s convenient for them

[@senoracheapee1864]

Definitely deserves to be a series so we can dig deeper

[@reese3005]

I dont think the ADOS movement seeks to tear down other african descendants. It is that the American descendants are minimized and erased because we are all lumped together. They do need to separate so that they can be addressed as a group. If we really want to fight anti blackness in America, it still begins with them. Acknowledging them. Righting the wrongs against them. As others and mixtures, we need to be silent and/or supportive.

[@richlandcountyblackcollect7882]

Sapodilla Brown ✊🏿

[@SylentONE]

✊🏿✊🏿

[@Deepdarkbasement]

Okay I’m 10 minutes in and already I’m glad to have watched this video! A friend and I were talking about this subject not to long ago. They’re Black and I’m Latinx, specifically Chicanx. I’m not Black and I’m not aware of any Black Ancestry (I do have Indigenous Ancestry on my father’s side) but learning about Black Culture was an important part of my life growing up in a rural Midwest community. Learning about figures like Malcom X, The Black Panthers, Assata Shakur, etc. Ended up helping me learn more about stuff like the Chicano Movement, AIM (The American Indian Movement), and other such groups and figures that directly helped me learn about my culture. So I have a deep seeded respect for Black American Culture for helping me learn what I know now... that being said a lot of mainstream Latin American Culture has an unfortunate history of Anti-Blackness. I’d go into more detail but I’m still watching the video and don’t wanna repeat any points made in it, so I’ll explain more once I finish it! Update: I finished the video, very much learned a few things! I think what I really want to add to this conversation is Mexico’s place in all this. Seeing how I’m Chicanx and come from a very proud Mexican Family I feel confident in my assessment that... professional speaking... Mexico has a lot of Racist Ass Beliefs about Black People. According to friends of mine who have Central American Roots, they say Mexicans have a sort of unspoken Racial Hierarchy. Some have described it as a Cast System. In addition to Xenophobia (which is especially shameful & hypocritical enough) a lot of Mexican People have open hostility towards Black Immigrants. Just look at how underreported the recent Haitian Immigrant Riots in Mexico are... some people are completely unaware of it! In addition to a racist population the Mexican Government also didn’t technically count Black People as Citizens in the country wide censes till... 2010! Only a Decade ago... its very shocking to me because if you look at the history of Mexico you can find Black Figures in it. During the Mexican Revolution you can find out about a Black Transgender Man who fought alongside Zapata (Amelio Robles Ávila was his name) Hell Mexico’s war for Independence was lead by several Afro-Mexican People including Mexico’s second President Vicente Guerrero who was the president that abolished Slavery in the country. I don’t wanna bash my Parents’ Home Country, and I am NOT Accusing all Mexican People of Anti-Blackness, however whenever the subject comes up and we see examples of Mexican people in America or Mexico commit acts of Hate or get away with casual Racist and/or Xenophon remarks... it hurts to watch. It feels like people don’t wanna address the ugliness and would much prefer to stay quite, we shouldn’t. People in both countries have worked hand in hand to fight oppression and it feels like people are deliberately trying to bury that fact. Don’t let them! I’m not sure if had more to say and got really side tracked but I guess I’ll leave it at what I have... it’s really late. Thanks for reading of you did, Black & Brown Unity Forever!

[@beniyasu]

Same. I’m also a nonblack Chicanx and infuriated by this. yep, anti blackness is global. And Mexico/and Mexicans (and Latin America and Latinx people) are antiblack as hell. It is why it is so easy for us to love the idea of black and brown unity when in reality, we haven’t done enough to advocate for/ protect black folks historically. I’m seeing an emerging fight against anti blackness in the Latinx activism pages I follow, and I’m happy to notice my friends and myself combatting anti blackness in the ways we can. But there is still a lot of trust to be earned if nonblack latinx folks want that brown/black unity we dream of tbh :l

[@125loopy]

Thank you for writing this. It was a good read

[@MsCouve]

Thank you! I’m going to look up some points you made...you’ve made me interested.

[@BrownPhoenix]

Yall have to remember that Mexicos government isnt for the people. Their ideals are white promoting bc they disregard the indigenous community, as well as the indigenous community being uneducated on world matters. Mexicans who view indigenous folks as lesser are more common than not, thats why its up to the younger generation to mend an correct ignorant ways

[@infullbloomtime7479]

Thank you so much for this read! As a visibly black woman who travels to Central America I see the way they greet me and tell me how they love me and etc but the problem is talking to the black folks who actually live there on a daily they explain the anti blackness in schools to jobs etc, I’m really glad more indigenous and Latin x ppl are speaking up and against anti blackness this is a global topic and needs to be dismantled Also the part about how they treat the Haitians I’m interested in finding a source because when you see in news wise is look at the Mexican towns that are so welcoming and open to the Haiti refugees.

[@MsJeanVieve]

This convo was mad fluffy ...

[@aamrakamran7275]

Cats don't want to deal with the real sh**.

[@daynamonet]

I love that you’re having this conversation as it’s a much needed nuanced conversation that needs to be had many times over. I did want to address the ADOS piece. As someone who’s not Afro Latinx and is a black descendent of American chattel slavery, I think there is some miscommunication involving the ADOS movement. It’s basically stating that we as ADOS were owed Reparations at the end of slavery and the civil war in 1865 and we never received said Reparations, then convict leasing, black codes, Jim Crow and mass incarceration followed. Fast forward more than 150 years, and there’s so many different types of black people in America so I feel ADOS is just trying to claim our space and the reparations owed to us. It’s not about diminishing the plight of other black people who were enslaved in the Caribbean and central and South America, but pointing out that each country has their own fight with reparations. It’s just a little difficult in America as their have been so many black immigrants over several decades come here so it makes it controversial but it’s not meant, in my eyes to be xenophobic. It’s basically said that had we gotten the 40 acres and a mule when we were supposed to over 150 years ago, we wouldn’t really be running into this problem of who gets what and who’s “eligible.” In any event, I loved this conversation and want to hear more.

[@ladydontekno]

Speaking as someone who’s rather suspicious of the ADOS movement, I do agree that reparations coming from the US government should only go to people whose families were dragged from Africa to the United States and were promised reparations immediately after the slavery era officially ended. That’s the only way these reparations would make sense. The United States wasn’t directly responsible for slavery that occurred in the Caribbean and Latin America. What I have an issue with is when people start saying that people like the women in this video aren’t “really black” because they aren’t African Americans. There’s a lot of xenophobia tied into that ADOS movement which makes them no better than white conservatives.

[@daynamonet]

ladydontekno I agree

[@thatgaldallas8459]

agreed

[@thatgaldallas8459]

Please revisit the history of the term “Black American”

[@brieoliver]

@@ladydontekno I wholeheartedly agree. The problem isnt reparations or ADOS wanting equal rights and acknowledgement. The problem is the disgusting xenophobia that this group represents. That's why they get a bad rap. I will never support bigotry under any circumstance, even if it is coming from other black people.

[@jjmitch8071]

I loved this conversation. I do think the privilege conversation did get skipped a little bit, in regards to the exoticism of Foreign black people and biracial black people and how they are sometimes afforded certain privileges/ seen a certain way. Also are the Spanish terms that they mentioned for black not considered “black” for their census?

[@LinzeyLiNO]

Justin Jamari to have that kind of conversation you would need to have a wider panel of people because not everything is as it seems looking from the outside in.

[@jjmitch8071]

PamperedKoils very true, but I also think that just like how we can recognize light skin privilege without really experiencing it, the same can be said for the foreign black experience.

[@melinatedvessel6840]

@@jjmitch8071 Huh?

[@jjmitch8071]

Melinated Vessel I was comparing light skin privilege to the privilege that foreign black people receive in America, and that you don’t always have to experience that privilege directly to recognize when it’s happening. Hopefully that made more sense

[@daynamonet]

Justin Jamari I peeped that too. Because the ladies on the panel had typical west African features they look black American, Like before they mention they’re Afro Latinx you may not know, as opposed to people like Rosario Dawson, Laos Anthony or Zoe Saldana, just to name a few. They spoke to their own personal experience.

[@KnockOutCutie]

Well... as a black American descendant of slavery to my understanding the ados movement is for ados ppl of American who built this country get our paid dues. If you are a black Latin and not a descendant of American slavery why would you feel the need to be included in that?? And I don’t feel the need for that to be included in this discussion.

[@albertmassaquoi1539]

I know we all black but we still have different cultures.

[@albertmassaquoi1539]

When the Reparation money comes there going to be a lot blacks that are not ados wanted that money

[@KnockOutCutie]

albert massaquoi I agree but that’s why we have to stand firm it’s no disrespect to our other black ppl of the diaspora but it’s facts

[@negracaribena]

While I do understand your argument, manny non-American black people helped advance the black American movement. For example Marcus Garvey, Stokey Carmichael. Also, who determine who is and is not included? Manny people came over before the large movements. So manny people might not even know.

[@negracaribena]

Brother Tracy Stone they did it to help black people in general. They saw their fellow black people and made a difference because they knew they could.

[@Princess_Weekes]

I really enjoyed this video and I hope we can do one that talks more about Afro-Carribean/WI Identity because I feel like there is a real erasure of how long Black WI people have been in the US and the ways in which BA and WI cultures have been blended historically. There have so many Black WI or half WI people in America who have worked in the community that I don't know why there is this idea that we have only been here since the 80s and that we never tried to play a part in American Civil Rights when that is clearly not the case. There is certainly an immigrant privilege, but it is a complex thing that I don't think it is easy to discuss if you are 1st gen or someone who has solely been on the side where your immigration status has made you a target.

[@melinatedvessel6840]

They leave fighting WS to AA,and then get in the line for WHAT'S WON. They come after all is done with the...."Hey guys what'd we win"? FrFr

[@WilliamsPinch]

Melinated Vessel 🎯

[@brooklyndecember]

You're uneducated. Black Latinos have civil rights movements in their counties. And if you read and didn't receive all your info from KZbin you'd know about their role in places like NYC, Chicago. The Young Lords were even mentioned in this video.

[@jasminepearls1047]

@@brooklyndecember In the U.S.

[@jasminepearls1047]

@@brooklyndecember Fred Hampton convinced them to join.

[@brooklyndecember]

@@jasminepearls1047 Sorry I don't understand your comment.

[@karminyates3261]

The real question is why does every other culture think they’re entitled to black Americans culture? All black peoples are not even from here. Our culture is unique to us.

[@BlairWaldorf2013]

I had a whole comment with no disrespect to these ladies and it isn’t even here anymore. So I’m assuming it was taken down. There is definitely a difference and it is fair to make that claim once we start talking about Reparations (not just for the money but for the resources associated with correcting that wrong). I think we must acknowledge we are all black but, and there is a but, the Black American experience is unique and those fighting for justice in the USA are doing so in reference to *those* black experiences and lineage not a collective/worldwide experience. For example, Puerto Rico wasn’t a territory until 1868 well after the Civil War and not citizens until 1917. So I support PR’s fight against *SPAIN* 🇪🇸 who was their colonizer if they are fighting for due justice for those atrocities done during the same time as Slavery in the USA. These ladies are saying all slavery is the same and that is incorrect. There were totally *DIFFERENT* colonizers who controlled different parts of the slave trade. ADOS is referring to those who committed said atrocities in the United States of America an no where else. If Afro-Latinos want to start their own respective fights then I salute them....just make sure it’s addressed to the *correct* colonizing country instead of trying to ride in on the backs of the ADOS movement.

[@sky2010_]

@@BlairWaldorf2013 you see the amount of BW who support it..that's why. Black American women are frequent supporters of their own erasure.

[@BlairWaldorf2013]

DearNadia...I think it is important to say that when black heritage individuals use the ‘we all black’ argument that doesn’t work *both ways* I can’t go to Brazil or Chile and be like *we all from Lucy a hundreds of thousands year old humanoid so I’m automatically a citizen* their governments would put my behind in JAIL. But that’s the argument I hear those from Latin countries trying to make for ADOS movements on why they should be included. The issue isn’t that someone is black the issue is that those of Black lineage rooted in slavery in the USA are fighting for and have BEEN fighting for rights that all others reap benefits from except the ADOS in America. Reparations is justice for those who have lineage that can be traced back to slavery in America not for the collective wrong doing of European colonization. We welcome other black people to the fight as allies (like you said). I really enjoy Kim because I think she really strives to make conversation the point of her platform but I was disheartened to see my very thorough comment gone within seconds of it uploading (now perhaps it was a system glitch-at least that is what I will choose to believe). These kinds of videos will strike both sides to come out and comment and I think to have a true conversation BOTH sides should be allowed to comment (respectfully of course)!

[@sky2010_]

It's just sad black women are so relieved by this conversation ..why? Why is it so important that people who never identified as black because they are not black are doing so now because its beneficial? Why don't BW feel the need to protect their unique identity vs choosing to instead give it away to everyone? But we complain when BM do this. People willing to give all of themselves away do not do so as to practice self respect . BW always show people what they think about themselves better than they could ever tell them.

[@MsCouve]

Kari Yates I think it’s because people are using black interchangeably. Some using it to identify culture, others an experience and others a phenotype.

[@13579hee]

Im African American and I think that "Afro- Latino" should be swapped for "Black-Latino" I think a lot of Latinos hear "Afro-Latino" and think it means "Having some African ancestry" so they claim it. I think they need to strongly identify it as being "Black Latino" meaning "someone who is racially Black and ethnically Latin"

[@MsCouve]

KCMC92 I like the racially Black and ethnically Latin.... which is what I consider Afro-Latina to be already. I like both terms. What you mention is a small nuance, however. This is why this topic and people are so divideded. There are so many people that don’t even understand the difference between race and ethnicity.

[@13579hee]

@@MsCouve so true

[@Lil08103]

there are limitations to your suggestion because you are thinking about a united states context. the problem is ppl have been afro-colombian and afro-cuban, for example, in their home countries for for more than a half century. i cant imagine going to latin america and asking afro latinos, many of whom dont even speak english, to call themselves an english term. also, millions more african slaves were dropped off in latin america than in the united states. so they have as much claim to that heritage as do we. i dont think it's their job to accomodate us as if we have ownership over blkness/african descent.

[@13579hee]

@@Lil08103 ummm they could just use the work Black in Spanish. NegroLatino You're talking like "Afro" is a Spanish word lol

[@13579hee]

@@Lil08103 are you High? My point is that they should be more specific about the fact that "afro Latino" is a term used to refer to people who are racially black and live a black experience every day. Not someone who was of mixed race ancestry and might be genetically 20% African. Mixed race people and people of mixed race ancestry will jump in and out of Blackness when it is convenient but they do not have the same experiences of the visibly black people who have to live the experience of being black everyday in their countries. You're missing the point of me saying switch to from "Afro" to "Black" (or "Negro" in Spanish). You're acting as if these terms like "Afro-Cuban" don't already mean "Black Cuban"...... Like "Negro- Cuban" ( aka "Black-Cuban 😂😂). And how do they have more claim to being Black????? Black people are Black I love how people like to mention to percentage of black enslaved people shipped to Latin America and the Caribbean but it's almost as if people conveniently forget the reason places like Brazil imported so many enslaved Africans... It's because enslavement was harsh down there and people frequently died. The amount of African Americans in the US could quite possibly be larger than the amount of black people in the Caribbean which includes the Latin Countries. And people love to mention Brazil as having a larger black population but most people don't know the facts about the statistic. The statistic mentioned that Brazil has more people Who identify being of African descent than the United States of America but that does not mean they consider themselves to be simply "Black". Most of them identify as being "Mixed Race". In 2011, 7.6% of Brazil's population identified as "Black" and over 43% of the population identified as being "Mixed Race". "In 2018, Brazil counted 19.2 million people who declared themselves black ("preto"). This is 4.7 million more than in 2012" - *this is from The Rio Times* So ultimately I could still make the argument that America has the largest population of "Black" identified people, with over 40 million. The largest population of Black people outside of Africa

[@ellegoddessessentials2547]

I hate when ppl don’t acknowledge their privilege

[@girlinterrupted9792]

Funny how they hate it, but have NO problems pointing out others.

[@AegisEpoch]

@JoMoe G. so we shouldnt have the conversation because there are whites who are poor>? there are too many white people to gear all conversations about minority issues around. theres going to be an exception to everything

[@user-rb4gq2rx8n]

Right; or change the subject because they don’t want to face the truth.

[@AJ-cq5pw]

JoMoe G. Yes all white people do have privilege. Privilege doesn’t always have to do with money. Privilege isn’t “your life is better because you’re white” it’s “your life isn’t made harder because you are a person of color”

[@ellegoddessessentials2547]

Aliyah J. Well said

[@tylineburgos8879]

Speaking of privilege. In 2005 a study showed that 2/3 of black people admitted into ivy leagues where the children of recent immigrants from the continent and carribean and to a lesser extent biracia with one black American parent. I haven't found a study on that since the very early 2000s but nigerian Americans are the most successful and highly educated ppl in America today and the first Black president was biracial and the son of an immigrant which matches the trend found in the study. Im pro everybody but it needs to be explored and understood why Black americans dont benefit equally from programs set up to benefit them and though being american outside of the us is a privilege it doesnt always translate that way to those of us who roots here.

[@SylentONE]

Very nicely put, sir

[@ketsitsengtsolo4698]

I loovvveeedd this!! Learned so much! The only part I'm conflicted about is when the ladies were talking about privilege. I am a Southern African studying in the US and I have experienced a lot of stereotyping and all the fallbacks of being from the continent but I also know the privileges of being foreign black. I have noticed that white America attributes both positive and negative stereotypes to every black besides African American, whose value is honestly not acknowledged. Very few valuable stereotypes are explicitly afforded all AA. For example, while i'm considered primitive as African, i'm also thought of as hard-working and exotic. Mysterious enough for you to want to discover my value and individuality beyond what you think black people are like. My AA friends don't usually have that privilege. White America sees no mystery. Nothing stopping them from seeing any particular AA as just another AA with all those negative stereotypes. I do get that 'unskilled immigrants' who are also often undocumented are dehumanized and truly experience very few privileges. I challenge the two ladies to think of the privilege that perhaps skilled afro-latinx and first-generation and beyond afro-latinx hold. I just would've liked more acknowledgement. It feels a little like gaslighting to completely disregard what we see on a daily basis. A "Yes, there are many afro-latinx who are privileged, for example...but we're not a monolith so there are also...who are treated as subhuman, and we never talk about those afro-latinx." Just that little acknowledgement.

[@natashas.alford685]

Thank you for mentioning this point! It wasn't my intention to gaslight, but I can understand why it came across that way. I've just spent the past year immersed in studying poverty, racism and police brutality in Puerto Rico, and the ways in which PR was completely abandoned since Hurricane Maria. So I see more parallels than ever. And I see the ways in which "citizenship" and its privileges didn't/doesn't translate for Puerto Ricans, and Black Latinos in particular, in ways I didn't see before. But I hear you!

[@reignlee7649]

I am a black Panamanian and was bought to the United States as a child so I am also very American. I agree with you totally with being looked at as "exotic" because I Speak Spanish, now because I am raised in the United States when I travel to Panama Im seen as exotic there as well because they consider me to be more American so if you were in a different country you would be exotic to thier Natives I think thats just how it works but have I experienced any financial privileges in the United States I have to say NO. Do I feel like white people view me as different from blacks born in the United States Im going to have to say no to that too...

[@queena_]

This reply is spot on. 💯

[@KarenDurantExperience]

This is an important conversation - a series if possible. Watching younger, educated visibly Black women hmmm. There is so much to be said and to have this topic bought to the forefront by someone from the south and not the eastern south. Good job keep it coming!!!

[@brooklyndecember]

I'd love to see a series. Glad Kim brought people who had the range.

[@meee4meee]

A conversation that needs to happen 👀👀👀

[@callme_burbu5976]

I am African American and Puerto Rican too. Seeing this woman speak makes me cry in the most wonderful and grateful way💕. This is so important and so complex. As far as the privilege conversation, that was a bit hard to stomach. Personally I do feel that under American context, Blacks that aren’t historically part of the slavery of the USA are in fact (despite everything) privileged. However, I do understand their perspective and what they are saying. I think there is a duality to it, foreign Blacks can be both privileged and targeted in the same way they feel that Black Americans can be privileged because of our American citizenship but in that same breath we are treated very poorly in this nation.

[@natashas.alford685]

Callme_Burbu thank you hermana it means a lot to have been part of this conversation 💕🙏🏾 and I do agree about the privilege aspect. If we were to discuss this again I would better explain the distinctions I was referring to, but I’m glad you explained it here.

[@Skarlett00]

I have garifuna ancestors! Have more native blood in me but my grandma and her family are all garifuna from Honduras. So happy you’ve touched on this topic, I by no means consider myself Black as I look more mestizo but the African diaspora is part of my family and in my DNA and I know latinos of African decent haven’t always had it easy in our Latin community.

[@polisigh216]

I am so happy that the lady in the “African Loyalty” shirt talked about her experience encountering the vastness of blackness in college. I felt seen.

[@PsalmoftheStars]

That bun is the business!

[@VyCityMusic]

I would have loved to know Janel’s true thoughts when Kim said “..we don’t get the privileges of being an exotic kind of black person “ all she gave us was a “hmmm” lol @23:25

[@technojunkie123]

She talks about her thoughts on it at 30:00

[@LinzeyLiNO]

I can see you starting your own talk show/wider panel with this conversation! Loved this conversation. I would love to see other conversations that are not really touched on spoken about

[@ntwadumela1777]

I just want to say... even if I don't agree with everything that u say, I really stand for you! I admire your point to stand in your own identity and for other ppl of color. I've never commented on a video of yours, I don't think, but you are Special and should be protected. Keep Growin'. Thank you!

[@noteetelheem4771]

Well I'm just glad someone said it out loud.

[@405boy4]

"Say it Loud, I'm black and I'm proud".💯%🔥

[@LynetteDenise]

As someone who is ADOS, I appreciate this conversation very much. I haven't seen one that has been this clear surrounding the topic of the differences between the Black American subculture and Afro-Latinx community. Thanks for having actual representatives of the Black-Latina community.

[@ifYOUaskme1]

Such a great conversation..I think there definitely is some privilege attached to being a non African American black person, especially in not being attached to the african American stereotypes and history, but it's where it's starts and stops..there is also non privilege attached to language, passport etc, and the assumption of african Americaness..I'm African btw

[@xxBlueCinnamonxx]

I think there is also a lot of colorism when it comes to black American men fetishising women of other races and ethnicities and talking down to black American women. So in that way it feels like being afro Latinos comes with some sort of privilege.

[@summersunsets13]

agreed

[@summersunsets13]

Narly waves i have a feeling you don't have an accent or even know people with accents. it's very difficult and you are NOT treated fairly with one. its also widely studied so please research this so you won't be as ignorant moving forward

[@UrbanAlchemystic]

@@xxBlueCinnamonxx so basically all of this conversation is about black dick ? Like that's a privilege. You know damn well they will do us just like how they do y'all. I get it now so the majority of the commentary about this privileged that phenotypically unambiguous black foreign women is about reclaiming and recovering black American dick. That's the root of this whole issue here, nationalism and black dick preservation.

[@LtheGoddess7]

I feel you 100% Kim when it comes to your privilege question. There's DEFINITELY a privilege to being an "exotic" Black in the US, with the subtext of 'I'm not one of THOSE [regular] Black folk, I'm [fill-in-the-blank]". Especially when we talk about the very present anti-Blackness in Afro-Latinx culture, there's the ability to access Black American culture / pass as Black American, while not actually BEING Black American. And that is DEFINITELY a privilege both of your guests seem to either be oblivious to and/or ignore.

[@ajahsias9697]

Idk if it’s just me and mine (Black American on both sides) but I always thought of “black” as an umbrella term for everyone in the diaspora not just Black Americans or a term that I’ve strayed away from “african americans”. Also for me, if you look black, are full or half black, have a culture that’s found throughout the black diaspora, and live the black experience. You’re black to me. No matter what other nationality or ethnicity you belong to.

[@deliaalvis2630]

Picture this: 10 little Girls, all cousins, all visibly mixed. With skin colours varying from peanut brown to eggnog. With hair textures from 1A to 3C. Ages from 3 to 12 years old. All "exotic" looking 🙄 Well, the eggnog blond with 3A hair and green eyes declares that she's the pretiest and picks the 2 other girls with the most eurocentric features to be contestants for second place. My freckly frizzy self(see profile baby picture) And my more tanned silky hair cousin. The girls who were not chosen to compete decide that even tho my cousin is a tad darker and looks more "india" than me, I have more visible afro features, so she "wins" second place. And that's how fucked up the latin american race problem is🤦

[@happyyet68]

Thank you all for this open and honest discussion. I am an African-American who studied Spanish in Spain. When I came back home I heard about Latin pride, but the visual didn't equal the words. I always felt an unacknowledged racism. Your guests confirmed my suspicions and added dimension. Thank you the work that you do.

[@kenyafromcali]

I’m glad sis talked about the difference with Black/Mexican experiences in Los Angeles vs NYC and East Coast with Caribbean Hispanics. I wish a Mexican would say the N word. We had literal race wars when I was in high school. There’s no similarity. We’re cool, but we have different goals and needs as ethnic groups living in California.

[@UrbanAlchemystic]

Race wars on the last day of school... yup! I see a lot of young Mexican Americans who don't even speak their own languagewho don't even like the black people in our area but will love to say the n word. I'm like be yourself back in the seventies and eighties and nineties the Mexicans of that time had their own swag but not this new generation.

[@JulianSteve]

I liked this video so much. I am a Afro-Honduran from The Bronx and when one of the ladies talked about the n-word pass, she’s right. A lot of white Latinos think they get a pass to use the word, especially the ones who have a little percentage of black. This does not give you a pass to use the n-word. You must have one or two PARENTS who are Afro-Latinos OR African descendants! Not grandparents, great grandparents, or cousins.... PARENTS! Thank you for this video ladies👏🏾💯

[@AJ-cq5pw]

These interviews keep gettin better and better. Keep it up Kim!

[@Greatestpersonever2doit]

Kim I was waiting for you to interject during the privelegde conversation to say" Come on, y'all really really bsn" 😭😭😭

[@kenyafromcali]

I do not think it’s black descendants of slavery coming first, it’s about the fact the we are an actual Ethnic group just like Puerto Rican, Dominicans and so on. They wear their flags. They are proud. They know their different and we just sit in the middle and did not acknowledge our lineage. We should be just as proud as a Afro-Caribbean from Trinidad or The Virgin Island. I think it’s weird that we can have an entire conversation about Afro LatinX, but indigenous black Americans identifying and disgusting themselves is harmful. That’s crazy when you think about it.

[@SylentONE]

Yeah. They're trying to gentrify our identity

[@Jmays03]

This conversation is EVERYTHING!!! Well moderated, great thought invoking questions! I’ve learned a lot and I’m not through the whole video yet.

[@TahtahmesDiary]

I am actually AfroSalvadoran and its been a trip watching people go from rejecting us back in my childhood (not to mention AfroLatinx rejecting it themselves & being denied their Blackness in Latinx countries...you only started being allowed to check "Afro" there on the census in the last decade cuz they didn't want to have too many Black people) to finding it to be an easy way to claim Blackness when you have none or very little. Cardi B is a prime example of this IMHO, though her rise is definitely a combo of claiming "afro" and being lightskinned/ambiguous and playing off colorism.

[@SpaceCadet_12]

I appreciate the video, thank you for acknowledging us in your space. Bad ass sweater btw

[@rosacastaneda4645]

I should be allowed to like this video an infinite amount of times! Your work, and the work of these women is invaluable! You are all brilliant, wonderful women having such important discussion, I am honored to watch, listen, learn from your work as well as share your videos! 💕 shout out to BadDominicana, your work mija, it’s thriving 💕

[@caiyalove1118]

Let’s gooo👏🏾👏🏾 this conversation has made me take more pride in my heritage as being a daughter from a West African father and American Caribbean mother❤️❤️❤️ I feel included in this conversation.

[@babyboi3355]

IM HERE FOR THIS!✨

[@MicahRion]

I learned so much from this video. My first introduction to Afro-Latinx identities was my boss. She's Garifuna and African-American, we work for a racial justice organization and we talk about race and identity a lot. Was really excited to see this video in my subscription feed, thanks for creating this and bringing on such great guests!

[@senoracheapee1864]

Regarding DOS, both of the ladies are a bit disingenuous and have omitted the fact that foreign blacks generally regard American blacks as lowly. In places like NYC often times their population is as big or bigger than ours and they openly without any provocation speak so negatively and interact rudely with black Americans. They ‘skin up’ their face if someone mistakenly assumes they’re Black American. They insist that we don’t have any culture, that we are lazy,that we do not value education, advise their children to stay away from us and they separate themselves by their ethnicity. They will tell you up front that they are not the same. As a children they weren’t even allowed to play with us. In situations where there are racial incidents they often say things like “I have nothing to do with that.” But then when it comes time to reap the benefits of some program or policy that’s addressing racial inequality all of us sudden (conveniently) we are all in this together. Black Americans people in particular are pan Africanist while everyone else (in my experiences) is not. How many videos are on KZbin alone insisting that we are bums and losers by foreign Blacks?We accept everyone and even insisted that foreign blacks be included in the civil rights immigration bill but they exclude us, generally speaking. But to state what is obvious to anyone who has regularly been around foreign blacks is somehow xenophobic.

[@PeacefullyAlone]

There is indeed a level of privilege that Black non Americans can get if they are educated. As a Black Colombian, I had noticed changes in treatment when people realize that I am not African American. But in my native country such privilege does not exist, the opposite would happen, an African American would be seen as more than a Black Colombian. Black Colombians: m.facebook.com/ElBarberoMC/photos/a.340074549893088/340090426558167/?type=3&source=54

[@maxineyolanda85]

@Sabriba TRUTH Spoken. TRUTH Heard. It is the same here in Honduras.

[@PeacefullyAlone]

@@maxineyolanda85 yes, I felt what Kim was saying about the privileges and stereotypes, but just like what the guests were saying, in our respective Latin countries, Black people are the poorest, in Argentina their life is so sad.

[@callme_burbu5976]

This is important. This needs to be said.

[@somethirdplace]

This was such an important and enlightening conversation! I always appreciate learning from people with an informed perspective and this gave me a lot of clarity. There were some great reminders in there to consider the source of where we get our information as well. Kudos to the speakers.Thanks for sharing.

[@AslanNotYoshi]

When it came to the “privilege” Kim was talking about with the exotification of black people with cultural identities other than American, I definitely know what she’s talking about and it’s relevant in certain contexts but I think privilege isn’t the word for it. It’s kind of like if a man were to say women have a privilege of not going to prison, when really just that an institution that criminalizes black men to a high degree is not equivalent to a system that specifically decriminalized black women. There are some resulting symptoms that happen to be that some “exotic” black women are held to a pedestal because of very toxic stereotypes and thus some of these women might be able to attain a partner, but then there’s a question of why the system is still so that women still need to find a man to bring value to themselves. So it’s really complex but a great topic to continue working on to understand the relationships between and within marginalized peoples and will really help in further understanding the affects of colonization of us. And perhaps finding a more useful and accurate term to describe this concept! Thank you Kim, Janel, and Natasha! I will definitely try to be more mindful about how I consume information about the Afro-Latinx experience.

[@nylala734]

I so agree with this and think it's a wonderful break down. We can say "privilege" and mean "oh this good thing happens to you" when privilege actually means "the system that is in place exists to benefit me." Just like racism is systematic, so is privilege.

[@nylala734]

And as one of those "exotic" blacks... The exotification does not actually benefit me, despite what it looks like from the outside lol

[@AslanNotYoshi]

nylala734 can I get a amen LOL people be creepy af about it

[@Selanaxfanx]

@@nylala734 I would argue it does benefit you, just not in the way in which you would prefer. Some "exotics" love the benefits of being "other"

[@AslanNotYoshi]

A Turns that’s true, some folks kind of like how we saw the conversation with Cyn Santana, they kind of learn to soak it up as a thing that gives them value. Though it still proposes the question as to why they want to be something “other”, and it’s typically anti-blackness, etc. which unfortunately is all to common among us

[@Chloe-ge7vv]

Kim realizing Gina Rodriguez is the worst 😂

[@monimuppet6132]

Ok, I haven't watched the whole thing but when my girl talked about how people start putting nationality above all else and the whole "we don't have those race problems" attitude, I had to pause. That hit me right in the heart. That mindset and the painful dismissal of race issues it causes saddens me more than almost anything else regarding race. Thank you for bringing that up.

[@monimuppet6132]

@@eshadiva6600 Yeah, I have relatives like that. I've been asked countless times why I don't simply identify as American. It's because me looking unequivocally of African decent causes me to be treated differently (putting it mildly). So until that is no longer the case I shall be identifying as Black. That is the type of life I have lived, that is the experience I have had; that of an American born, African slave descendant. If others feel shame over that, sorry. I don't. I have nothing but pride.

[@_lexce]

Thank ALL of ya’ll for taking the time to educate. This was quite informative and useful. Truly, thank you 🙏🏾🙌🏾👏🏾.

[@LibraP93]

This video was great! Love this conversation!💕

[@mikellblackonblackluv645]

Very relevant conversation & long overdue💯

[@nicolecory-zhang7572]

Kim I love you! Never stop!! What you're doing is so important! Sharing these perspectives, information, frameworks, and shared experiences is SO important!! It's so thought out and so inviting for people who are within and outside the African American community. This is the information people can take in and move in the right direction and maybe make changes in their own lives and communities. Love you! You are inspiring.

[@notevenonce2260]

I find it interesting that they didn't talk about how gender and colorism play into this controversy. Given the nature of this channel, I found that unusual. Afro-Latinx men are often more accepted than Afro-Latinx women because they aren't exotified in the same way or to the same extent. Colorism in the US says having light skin and "good" hair makes African American women more desirable while those same features often make African American men read as more feminine (and thus less desirable). So African-American men often don't tend to see Afro-Latinx men as a threat to their position in the dating/marriage market and often see Afro-Latinx women as more desirable than other kinds of black women. On the flip side, African American women often feel threatened by Afro-Latinx women's claims to blackness (and African American men's acceptance of those claims) because their inclusion would allow African American men to avoid the stigma and social consequences that come with interracial dating; a "get out of cancel culture jail free" card. There are all kinds of posts by black women dragging black men for wanting to claim any kind of woman with a drop of black blood so they can date them with no social consequences. It's not that different than the stigma light skinned African American women face, but its more hyperbolic because it conveniently maps onto a demographically distinct group and their differences in terms of appearance, nationality, ethnicity, language, and culture. On the other hand, there are also instances of African American women participating in sex tourism in places like Jamaica, which can lead to the same tensions among Jamaican men, Jamaican women, and African American women. There's a book on it called "The Pursuit of Happiness: Black Women, Diasporic Dreams, and the Politics of Emotional Transnationalism." Diaspora politics are a mess, especially when we start talking about people's ulterior motives. They also didn't talk about the long history of African Americans attempting to "pass" themselves off as members of other groups (Latinx, South Asian, White, Arab, etc.) as a strategy to avoid racism and the cognitive dissonance of internalized racism. Passing created deep social traumas for our families and communities. It was, in many ways, a form of social death whereby people who didn't "look" black would have to totally cut themselves off from their relatives and move away from anyone who ever knew them to start a new life lest anyone find out their secret. That created a lot of resentment toward lighter skinned members of the African American community above and beyond the preferential treatment they might have received as they self-identified as black. I'm of the mind that African Americans should stop interfering in these conversations and allow Afro-Latinx folks full leeway in making sense of their own blackness. For years, we would ridicule them about how they supposedly didn't want to admit that they were black. Now that there is some kind of a movement among them to develop a consciousness centered on their blackness, we want to change up? No, let them figure it out. We've been through a whole succession of terms to refer to ourselves because we didn't get it right the first few times either. Forcing our understanding of blackness on them is simply cultural imperialism informed by our unacknowledged American privilege.

[@peacebaby7702]

I’m so here for this video!

[@jacquelinejacqueline162]

Loved this conversation,... But No Race has the Strugle like the Black Race. And I'm not just talking about African Americans. This is World Wide. Thank you Sisters.

[@sumayzebecreating]

I love these discussions you post on your channel. I'm TUNED IN!

[@skipp10467]

Thanks for having this conversation! It was much needed!

[@thot69]

Thank you for taking the time to educate us. So much respect for you ladies!

[@natashas.alford685]

Thank you for watching!

[@Jerel_con_jota]

¡Muchísimas gracias! ¡Qué buena y fructífera la charla!

[@theajayieffect]

Yesssss, Garifuna 🇭🇳

[@UrbanAlchemystic]

💛🖤💛🖤🇧🇿🇭🇳 ayyye

[@lovecate1]

I think an important part of this discussion, that was kind of touched on but not thoroughly spoken about, is how phenotype plays apart in this topic. There are a lot of people jumping up and proclaiming their blackness because black culture has always been seen as "cool" and it is currently very profitable. Some of these people also use the word nigger/nigga and want to continue to do so and use their proximity to blackness as an excuse. What I noticed is that people who don't have the sub-Saharan phenotype are doing this. I believe that they do it for "cool points" but they know that they never have to fully live under the weight of blackness. I remember when Demi Levato released her DNA results and proudly proclaimed she was 1% African because she thought it was cool, but she can gleefully do this because there is no repercussion on her life for that 1%. She doesn't look black. She won't have to fight the same battles that Normani does. On the topic of Afro-Latinx I often see people who look mixed race or white leading the discussion. I don't often hear the stories of people who look like me; dark-skinned, wide nose, kinky hair. Either Vice or Viceland has a video on YT, called Too Black for Brazil, about a Brazilian pageant winner who has the sub-Saharan phenotype and her experiences after winning this popular talent/beauty pageant. She was the first woman who looks like her to win and the racism that ensued was tremendous, so much so that they eventually stripped her of her title. I think that globally, the treatment of "black" people often comes down to how the individuals look. I don't think we can have a discussion on this topic without including and thoroughly exploring the topic of phenotype.

[@MyWorld-xw6ic]

In the words of Paul Mooney: “Everybody wanna be a nigga but don’t nobody wanna be a nigga”. I just mentioned this phenomenon in a video!

[@thumpa7771]

This was a great discussion! I would really like to see more of this because, it was very informative. Thanks👍

[@lovekiko27]

This was a great conversation! We need more of this.

[@MsCouve]

This was great!!!!!! I can also agree that as a light skinned Afro Latina, I do not have “privilege”. People do not look at me and think Puerto Rican.... They see me as Black and I am. I understand some “sort” of privilege in certain circumstances, but not as a whole, I deal with systemic racism every day. I stand and advocate (in my lil world) for the Black and Latinx community. I also understand that my darker skin peoples experiences are different and would never want to invalidate that. In discussing immigration, I agree that we all need to think of the bigger picture in helping others. Now you have me thinking, once again, of my birth certificate. I’ve always been salty that they have my mother as White (she’s a white passing Puerto Rican...think Rita Moreno) & father as Puerto Rican (which I never considered a race, but an ethnicity....think Dijon Hounsou). Looking at my birth cert. you would think I’m some old French white lady smh lol the gov’t might think it’s a fake. I’m so happy you have put this on your platform and thankful that you care to understand and share the similarities and differences we share. ❤️❤️❤️

[@jasminepearls1047]

They do know by your name, if you speak Spanish, your location. Stop living in denial. They know if you tell them.

[@MsCouve]

Jasmine Pearls I don’t know if you’re speaking in general, but as for myself....yes, they know if I tell them. If I don’t, it would never cross their minds. My last name is not a typical Puerto Rican last name.... it’s French and one might think I’m Haitian....and I may very well be. As far as my location, same thing. I don’t live in Spanish Harlem. So where I reside people see me as Black (which I am) and what they consider Latin is Evelyn Lozada & Jlo. Also, if I speak Spanish, they ask, “Oh, you speak Spanish?” Not, “Oh, you’re Puerto Rican/ Dominican/Cuban or Latina?” None of that. I’m not in Denial about anything.

[@SylentONE]

OMG! You basically just said "not all cops" and don't even realize it

[@carlosharris1349]

Kim, love your hair up. So pretty.

[@Locnessmonstah]

Been waiting about this conversation!!!

[@summersunsets13]

i think a lot of afro latinxs who have said they are not black aren't saying they are ashamed of their black phenotypes. instead, they don't want to ERASE their ethnicities by saying theyre black, because black is often equal to "african american" which is its own unique ethnicity

[@waldobaez4751]

the dominican thing in PR is something as a dominican you grew up knowing, stories of dominicans traveling in yola to PR looking for jobs and the distance and confrontation between both communities. And also how the same xenophobia dominicans would criticizes puertoricans for, then would use against haitians.

[@Amberrechelle]

So .... I have some thoughts on the reparations topic. Yes, we are all Afro decent and our ancestors were slaves in the Americas; however, the reparations should specifically before African Americans .No I’m not being divisive but us black Americans need a moment . Please lord

[@aamrakamran7275]

True. We fba are a compound group who need our own shit and separated from black foreigners.

[@Amberrechelle]

ToyosiFawehinmi it’s good to know you agree . And yes SENSIBLE ones do agree

[@SylentONE]

Yes, love

[@mimicallsit7675]

I’m just coming to this! But so blessed to hear this talk and sharing it with my book group ❤️! As a Black South American descendant of enslaved people, and as one of Dr. Vega’s ICA fellows, I was so excited to hear her referenced. I love her so much!!! Thank you for this exchange.

[@brianpelzer5811]

GREAT VIDEO FOR HARRIET. GOOD COMMENTARY ON EVERYBODY WANNA BE BLACK NOW. AN HONEST CONVERSATION ON AFRO LATINX IDENTITY. THIS WILL BE A CLASSIC.

[@debbiebalandrano]

This was a great conversation!

[@devilangel777]

Good video. This was from an afro Latino perspective so I understand why they tip toed around the privilege question. But I do think immigrant privilege is a thing. Not necessarily afro Latino privilege, but immigrant privilege. And it has nothing to do with looks because Africans have it too. There is a perception that immigrants are harder working or better mannered while ADOS are lazy & stupid. And I've seen black immigrants use this perception to their advantage despite it being rooted in anti African American sentiment. There are non AAs who want to position themselves as the "better" black people. You wanted to say it but didn't.

[@ladydontekno]

At the same time, I’ve seen African Americans who insist that black immigrants aren’t living the “real” black experience, or that “they’re not really black.” This isn’t something directed specifically towards Afro Latinos either, I’ve seen it directed at black Caribbeans too. Is it reasonable to say that African Americans have “citizenship privilege”? I’m not really sure about that.

[@quonya]

These are two visibly black latinas discussing privilege. They also have American accents, and were raised in the US, therefore their experiences of privileges would be different. Might have been different if the panel was a bit wider and there were people who were immigrants. I think immigrant privilege is a thing, but it depends on the country you're from and I do think looks would play a part in it. At least from my experience as a black American living in the UK, I'm given a lot more positive attributes automatically associated with me versus my black British friends, those from African and Caribbean countries as well.

[@hastalavista567]

Im confused at this I dont think immigrant privelege is a thing when the president ran a campaign and got elected by smearing immigrants ..

[@Lafemmefutile]

African immigrant here, I’m going to disagree with this because at the end of the day, people see you as black. Just like regular AA, whatever uppity thought I had about myself, I was still assessed, judged, weighted in my ability to conform to whiteness. I have seen people demand I prove I’m not like other black people, or people surprised I didn’t match their idea of who black people in their space. I have seen it happen with white Americans, black Americans, Mexicans in Mexico, etc... If there was a privilege to enjoy, it’s because I had drastically different personal experiences that position me closer to European heritage thanks to colonialism, proximity that is valued and envied by white people. One thing an AA woman told me when I was looking for a job was that at least my name didn’t sound AA and therefore I could get more open doors than if my name was a more stereotypical AA one.

[@hastalavista567]

@@Lafemmefutile Kay and the Latino immigrant that gets sent to a concentration camp despite being legal? Is that a privilege ?

[@HoraceGold333]

Absolutely amazing conversation. Thank you all for this

[@lexis.6075]

This video was great! I loved that you incorporated and interviewed two other women that identify as Afro-Latinx and gotten a personal perspective. It's good to see other people added to the conservation.