Who taught you to hate your hair?: Black women discuss the pain and pleasure of Black hair

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[@serenity6831]

My mom taught me to hate my hair, but of course she denies it now 🙄

[@theartistscorner689]

A lot of anti blackness is passed down as generational curses because we are a hurt unhealed people.

[@greatgownsbeautifulgowns]

Mine has made comments about my hair when I was going natural too-- but of course now it never happened. Other than that, they always do that. There are things that were said and done in the past that were very significant when whatever it was was said and done ...but if you bring it up in the present it's like, "Oh no, I didn't do that!" 😐🙄

[@ntmediadgirl]

Same!

[@Xtinaiyayi]

Same!

[@louise-yo7kz]

Our moms are guilty of lots of our low self esteem.

[@msmslatinclass4959]

Can we talk about how stylists can go all the way through Cosmetology licensing without ever learning or training on hair curlier than 1c/2a?

[@writerwilliams4156]

It's a totally separate license to style natural hair. Many of my clients come to me because their cosmetologist can't or won't do their hair outside of a silk press.

[@heathertea2704]

MsM Latin Class that's by design.😡

[@phantomrose2092]

Exactly!!!!!!

[@aliahc8595]

This

[@donnapug]

MsM Latin Class black stylists?

[@vurgolove2]

I hate when people claim type 4 hair when it clearly isn't, just to get some views. Clickbait.

[@vurgolove2]

@Mani La’Pree Right though!?

[@Xtinaiyayi]

MaJa Earth its so aggy!

[@purplecraving278]

I don’t understand why we have to put our in CATEGORIES!!! I DONT CLAIM ANY numbers or letter!! It doesn’t make any sense.

[@huhnahmai934]

@Purplecraving it makes a lot of sense actually. To be purposefully obtuse will not get you anywhere honey. ppl like you make my head hurt. hair comes in different types. Just as we categorize skin we categorize hair. It would naive of you to think that the same products that a 3a girl is using, regardless of porosity, is going to work the same on a 4c girl. Also, hairstyles look different on different hair types. 4c twist outs and 3c results do not look anything like and that’s OK. And people have to feel like that’s OK by seeing other people who have that look. It’s normal. If you don’t see it we will treat it as an anomaly. Hair typing is necessary for ppl to find ppl they can not only connect with, but validate their experience which is something all black women need. ppl need to feel seen so they know that their hair type is not an oddity or some monstrous catastrophe placed on them as a burden. They will find ppl who understand their hair and how to work with it. Not only that, but hair typing allows us to hold these companies accountable. We know how to identify what is missing. When we don't see a 4b or 4c we know what it is and companies are forced to bend the knee or face retribution. It gives us power that we never had before. I see you, we see each other, and we most definitely see that we are being neglected in this space and we can opt out. It is ignorant of you to use your experience as an exception to validate what you feel should be the norm regardless of general community consensus. I really wish black women would stop sounding like white women with this whole "we are all the same" "I see no colour" type trope. Its silly and annoying, especially when we know damn well the intricasies of black hair and blackness as a whole. If you want more information on the questions you are seeking then I would advise you to watch Kandid Kinks video on it.

[@vurgolove2]

@@purplecraving278 I personally use hair typing to see how styles would look on my type 4C hair. Its important for me to know so I'm not looking crazy wondering why when I watch a woman with 3a/3b/3c my hair doesn't come out the way hers does.

[@ashantiphillips3917]

"Don't feel safe in beauty salons ". I felt that

[@user-rb4gq2rx8n]

The jealousy is real. Shaved my head serval times; due to heat damage

[@SunshineState-ou7pr]

Yeah, because black women are forced and taught to have this damn pent up contentious attitudes and bitter hatred towards each other. One hate to see the other one successful with anything, and hate to really praise and compliment each other now. Too scared one is going to stand out more

[@shashavengesayi6055]

For Harriet meets The Grapevine, kind of. Loving the vids

[@AlphabetSoup123]

@@extrashotofespresso_ They have a podcast together that's just them talking about black girl magic and bleed issues.

[@juicyparsons]

@@AlphabetSoup123 what are their names

[@AlphabetSoup123]

Their names are Queen and J, and the podcast is called, Tea With Queen and J.

[@Tima-oz5te]

Right this was the crossover I didnt know I needed! TGV needs to hurry and extend an invitation to kim to be on the panel with the rest of them

[@aharper12]

I legit thought the same thing!

[@k.alvarado6237]

The reason 4C hair is “harder to manage and style” Is because people still want their 4C to look as presentable in accordance to the beauty standards set by white supremacy. We still manipulate the texture with twist outs, Bantu knot outs. Tension styles like braids that pull the hair straight.

[@aamia3769]

K Aaron I think this starts the conversation about what is actual maintenance vs alteration. I don’t find anything wrong with styling type 4 hair. But I do know some women who always alter the texture so that you can’t tell they have type 4 hair. I think we need to find a good balance. But I will point out the point of going natural is for actual versatility, unlike the faux versatility that weave wearing black women claim they are getting.

[@mysimmingadicction]

Exactly imagine how “hard to manage” straight hair would be if their goal was to make it look like ours ?

[@mysimmingadicction]

Exactly imagine how “hard to manage” straight hair would be if their goal was to make it look like ours ?

[@pandoraheartsvd]

Also some shampoos and conditioners that work with 4c hair are the most expensive. Though everyone's hair is different.

[@louise-yo7kz]

We need more public figures(Ms. Universe) to embrace the nap. Full stop. This shit is deep rooted. 😔😣😨

[@gilda5101]

Confession: because I'm usually the only black woman in my environment I'll do the minimum with my hair, or like if I braid my hair I'm forgiving if my parts aren't straight, or if its messy and my roots are long. My nonblack coworkers actually give me compliments for my look lol. However, when I see another black woman in my space I get self-conscious and remember how messy and unkempt my hair is. Anyone else do that? Just me??

[@honeydrop7306]

Same!!! I feel verry awkward when other black stare at my hair makes me feel verry insecure

[@Amber1850]

Holy shit yeah many of my friends and coworkers are white and when I had braids/twists I would often let my roots grow out alot before taking them out but I never got anything but compliments from them it was only when I encountered other black women that I was reminded(verbally) about how "unkempt" my hair was

[@123weedie]

Omg me too! I find myself i mainly white spaces so I'm more or forgiving with my hair esp when i get braids and let the roots grow out a abit. But when i come across another random black female she always ives me the death stare that says 'You need to new braids fam'. You can get away with unkept hair aroundNon black people because they don't know the difference.

[@abcxyz4653]

This is interesting! I’m white and I don’t do anything to my hair so it’s naturally messy and a lot, so I guess I would never think to hold another woman to some standard of having their hair look perfect. Also I think if a black woman has her hair done in a cute or cool way in any way at all it can seem impressive to white people lol

[@fredrika27]

Yes, I get what you are saying! I am tired of women of color making their sisters and brothers feel bad because they have these unobtainable beauty standards! They will talk about you like a dog and belittled you if you're not holding up your end like they think you should! I am sick of these women and tell them straight up to get out of my face! Furthermore, a cute hairstyle doesn't necessarily translate to SKILLS in the workplace! Because I live in Europe, I don't have access to many products as in the US. Likewise, standards are different all over the world!

[@crownjewel832]

As a child, to be considered attractive, I was taught that ideally black girls should have thick, long and soft/curly/“good”. “Bad/ugly” hair was considered “hard”, course, nappy, thin, short.

[@wigsontop]

nappy hair dries out easier because natural oils from your scalp cannot hydrate nappy hair easily and therefore breaks easier than strait or curly hair

[@Ashley-ji3rv]

My mother relaxed my hair when I was 6, she would always relax it every month and it wouldn’t grow AT ALL 😣.. Now that I’ve been natural and relaxer free for a year it has grown faster than it ever did in 10 years

[@lahbody7047]

Loving Without Boundaries my mother relaxed my hair at 6 too. I stop getting relaxers in 2004. Hair has been thriving ever since

[@bluebird1694]

Well hair is always growing otherwise you'd be bald lol. The problem was she was applying those harsh chemicals to your delicate hair way too often and overprocessing it.

[@greatgownsbeautifulgowns]

She relaxed your hair EVERY MONTH!?😢

[@user-mf4dd5rp8y]

QuickSaaand mine did too, now that I’m 18 I’m going natural

[@jadexplores2100]

My first relaxer was at the age of 3 O_O

[@MissDee757]

It's really sad how many people are referencing their mom :( alot of the negativity we get initially comes from out own family members.

[@biancalord488]

This is very true

[@introspect86]

But our moms got it from somewhere. They are human.

[@brittdavis1]

Omg yes, most of our trauma comes from other mothers smh

[@jackier3179]

Ayodele Ellevic Thompson ...and they didn’t know any better. I don’t consider it sad, though.. this is how we learn to un-do the negative.

[@heathertea2704]

@@introspect86 they got it from the SICK SOCIETIES THEY, US & our DESCENDANTS grew up in. SO glad to witness the DISMANTLING of that MINDSET. ✌

[@xTheArtOfDrew]

Kim stays putting out quality content. Wonderful discussion!!

[@galileerwamiye3669]

TheArtOfDrew periodt

[@mariahhenderson1470]

69th like

[@ShaneAhmedi99]

Yes it was great!

[@honeydrop7306]

My grandma, my aunt, my cousin, all the colorist anti black people in my family tried to make me hate my hair but they never succeeded. I love my type 4A hair with the zig zag patterns

[@brittdavis1]

Lol

[@fredrika27]

Lol! I am feeling this so much! I have caramel brown skin and am a quarter white! My foster parents would make comments about how me being so "coffee and cream" and having kinky 4c hair! Well, I know women who are "coffee black" with 2c hair and white girls with 4c hair! It's genetics and the luck of the draw! I have a Greek friend who has 4c hair and her mother was at her wits end until my mum showed her how to comb my girlfriend's hair! My Greek girlfriend got her genetics done just to prove she wasn't the milk man's daughter because of her hair! It's absolutely crazy when relatives pull that race crap on their own kids and make them feel bad for being who they are!

[@brittdavis1]

@@fredrika27 wow. Smh

[@bestofbothworlds4736]

That's sad.

[@macummings7818]

❤️

[@Geisha1215]

Okay. If she says “bald-headed scalawag” one more time....😹😂😹

[@faitht.4244]

A possible reason one might still struggle with the "manageability" of "4c" hair is because they may compare it to straight hair or even 3c hair: hence seeing 4c hair as abnormal. Imagine a world where everyone had "4c" hair and knew how to take care of it, I don't think the maneagibilty issue will still crop up. Its a case of seeing your hair as it is and providing what it needs, regardless of what the rest of the population is doing with their own type of hair.

[@heathertea2704]

Faith T TELL it. 👏👏👏😊

[@beautifuldreamer8803]

The most negativity I get in real life for my short 4c hair comes from other 👏🏾black 👏🏾people (not saying other races are perfect). People only appreciate 4c hair online; especially if it is long and thick.

[@cg183]

Right!

[@jessica_gatinha7881]

this conversation can be discussed within the locd community too. I was obsessed with a fresh retwist when i first started to loc but moving to japan has made me accept/love my new growth.

[@shontasweetieable]

Jessica Cevidanes this! I notice that family/ friends will only compliment my Locs if I have a fresh retwist so sometimes I feel like I should retwist even if I don’t want to... and I’m tired of explaining that there’s nothing wrong with new growth

[@jessica_gatinha7881]

Shonta' Sweetie yasss. I had to evaluate why I needed a fresh retwist and I came to the conclusion it was NEVER for me but always for pleasing other people. So i said f*** this. If you don’t like my new growth don’t look at it.

[@ebonyr.b.1216]

Yess! I had locs for 7/12 years (released them about 5 years ago). Once I moved away from home and had to start figuring out my own upkeep, that's when I stopped caring as much about neat parts and squares and shiny roots, which I later realized was damaging with too much upkeep.

[@juicyparsons]

here's one: in 2018 I was on IG looking at all these young kids with dreadlock fades and tapered edges and all these cute trends- I made the AWFUL mistake of fading my hairline with some clippers. Not only did I look way OLDER (my greys were on full display, I'm 35) but I didn't think about how badly it would damage my locs at the edges. I spent all 2019 vowing to never shave or trim my locs again and went on a regimen of nothing but castor oil and washes, only tightened up my locs twice this year. My edges grew back but I lost one of the front locs..... while I wait for the new growth to reattach it I definitely learned the hard lesson that locs aren't supposed to be perfectly manicured and to love your messy nappy edges while you still have any hair at all!

[@IshaSidi]

Sis where do live in Japan?? Me and my girls are going there in April and we are looking for cheaper hotels in Kyoto and Tokyo. Any hotel recommendations and cool things to do there for 2 week stay ?

[@fian1286]

I agree with the different types of language for different hair types . There is no romantic language or adjectives attached to Type 4 hair especially 4c .

[@Tima-oz5te]

Fr we should brainstorm. Maybe when our hair is "dry" we can its thirsty (for moisture)

[@skysthelimitforeveryoung3437]

@@Tima-oz5te Thirsty would be a negative word because it is lacking (for moisture) in nature.

[@BossTrace]

Strong & Powerful- Tabitha Brown

[@aliahc8595]

My mom and I have natural hair and are constantly asked when we're going to straighten out our hair. My mom had a response that shook me, “I have no desire to look eurocentric." and I haven't stopped thinking about it.

[@AmKDWIFE]

Our hair is the only ones that gets policed..other races can do what they want and no one says a word. We aren't allowed to be women. Non black women can dye, Curl, wear braids, extensions, wear wigs..weaves. and no one says a thing.. I've always had long hair all my life..some times I wear it curly sometimes flat iron.. and constantly analyzed by others to the max.. all my life. Its crazy.

[@Kelema86]

I agree. Black women hair and appearance are constantly scrutinized and policed by EVERYONE. It’s exhausting. I think it needs to be up to each and every black woman to be introspective about her choices regarding her body and her looks. Like if you constantly wear weave or wigs and never show your hair in its natural state, I think you should reflect on that and why that is. Maybe you just enjoy wigs and it ain’t deeper than that. Maybe you have unresolved issues regarding your hair texture. A lot of us may have different trauma or internalized anti blackness to unpack. And that isn’t just black women. Black men Barbour A LOT of self hate too, that they take out on black women. But it isn’t for others to judge why black women wear our hair the way we do though. I wear my hair natural and kinky/curly all year, but will flat iron it once a year, and if someone who never saw me before saw me with my straightened hair they might assume “there goes another self hating sister who dont like her own hair”. 🙄 just leave us alone. You don’t know my story, my thoughts or my feelings. Get tf out of our hair and let us live!

[@heathertea2704]

@@Kelema86 HELLO!!!✌

[@bestofbothworlds4736]

If non Black people wore hair that did not match theirs of course they would get dragged the same way they do for getting lip injections. Why are some of y'all like this?

[@AmKDWIFE]

@@bestofbothworlds4736 I've seen them wear a variety of textures.. they manipulate their own to look wavy or curly. Don't act brand new. People just turn a blind eye to it..

[@bestofbothworlds4736]

@@AmKDWIFE Throwing an Asian woman's silky straight hair on top of kinky afro hair is not the same as non Blacks wearing wigs or pieces that for the most part blend with their natural hair. Stop it.🤣

[@MamaMudiwa]

Also being tall with a deeper voice and feeling like my presence fills a room, I felt sis on that. It took a long time to accept my own femininity as uniquely mine.

[@nyeshiasparadise4498]

Vann D. Yesssssss!!! I’ve always felt automatically masculine because of my height and foot size !! I’m accepting my own femininity now and embracing myself

[@bequiet4636]

This whole video was life for me, but the moment those ladies said “we’re from the Bronx”, they legit gained a new follower in me!

[@ashantiphillips3917]

Me too!

[@Lisa_Flowers]

Have been natural for about 4 years now, and while my mom has made some headway in accepting it, she still thinks my 4c wash and go'd coils are too unkempt and too similar to dreadlocs, which she vehemently hates. She herself prefers and often struggles with making her hair straight or 'managable'. Edit: Also, it's interesting to me how even in non-racialized contexts, or homogenous contexts like the one I live in (an East African Country with a majority black population), the white gaze still persists and exists - even without the overt presence of white people. A lot of the same pressures to look and present in a particular way are here, so much so that most girls in schools either have to shave their heads, straighten their hair, wear braids or stretched natural hair, and are often explicitely not allowed to wear dreadlocks. There was an article in the newspaper a few years ago because there was a legal dispute between parents and a (british curriculum) school because their child had dreadlocs. It's interesting that we are still so bent on performing white supremacists beauty standards when there are no white people to overtly enact consequences for not doing so - I can only guess it's the systems they left behind after colonization that create that reality.

[@juicyparsons]

my family hated my dreadlocks when I started them but now they're all envious of how long my hair is. the allure of those white beauty standards is still there with my parents and grandparents :(

[@silviamwendia9439]

As a Kenyan black girl I have felt this. I also find it interesting how the white gaze is so persistent in our culture even though we do not have to deal with whiteness on a daily basis. What's even more interesting is that it is just now we are starting to have these discussions on the impact colonialism left behind and how white supremacy affects us even though we think that we're too 'removed' from it.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

@@silviamwendia9439 i'm from Kenya as well! And I completely agree. I was never conscious of the white gaze growing up even though it affected so many of the ways I acted in the world. I'm glad there are other Kenyan black girls having these conversations and thoughts because lord knows in my immediate context white supremacy and it's ideologies are still rampant and treated as inhenrent truths.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

@@juicyparsons It's still so awful that peope demonize our hair textures and the way we decide to style them. So much of my own mother's dislike of dreadlocks seems unfounded, she can never quite tell me exactly _what_ is wrong with them, because i honestly think a lot of her dislike is similar to how J. was treated by those people who expressed disgust for her hair: projection of beauty standards that they have chosen not to question onto others. I am glad that you're immediate family has turned around (and sad that your grandparents haven't!) Though I would say that the fact that they only accepted your hair when it was _long_ is still reflective of some questionable beliefs and beauty standards that need to be questioned and challenged by them (seeing that texture, thickness AND length/ability to grow (long) hair are also eurocentric standards of beauty)

[@ceci9570]

Lol u kenyan right I find it interesting cuz when I was in a British system school nobody policed my hair to the same extent as in 844 system.

[@WilliamsPinch]

We attach hair length to femininity, that expectation is not exclusive to nonblack cultures... There are many indigenous African cultures and tribes where length is valued among women and that’s not simply a product of white supremacy or eurocentricity.

[@DoraWinifred]

That probably partly becuase short hair or no hair is linked to masculinity men go bald therefore the opposite is long hair equating to femininity. Also women that are of child bearing age are associated with having long thick healthy hair.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

@@DoraWinifred That's not entirely true. There are tribes where men have long hair and women have no or short shair. Ideals of masculinity and femininity are not universal.

[@DoraWinifred]

Rocknalldatime99 I know but I wasn’t referring to those tribes as they are in the minority.

[@tariromoyo348]

@@DoraWinifred I wouldnt say they are in the minority .It depends on the part of Africa you are from . West African and East African tribes have a variety of long hairstyles for women which have always been part of their culture. Whereas in Southern Africa which is where I'm from ,hair had nothing to do with gender and it wasn't and isn't uncommon for a woman to be totally bald or wear her hair really short; for Shona women in Zimbabwe ,Xhosa , Tsonga and Zulu in South Africa and many more all over the region short hair is quite appropriate for a woman . However due to the fact that post independence West Africans have always traveled more and have a greater international presence than Southern Africans (who rarely leave home) people are more aware of West African tribes like the Fulani and their sense of style.

[@tariromoyo348]

​@@DoraWinifred I wouldnt say they are in the minority .It depends on the part of Africa you are from . West African and East African tribes have a variety of long hairstyles for women which have always been part of their culture. Whereas in Southern Africa which is where I'm from ,hair had nothing to do with gender and it wasn't and isn't uncommon for a woman to be totally bald or wear her hair really short; for Shona women in Zimbabwe ,Xhosa , Tsonga and Zulu in South Africa and many more all over the region short hair is quite appropriate for a woman . However due to the fact that post independence West Africans have always traveled more and have a greater international presence than Southern Africans (who rarely leave home) people are more aware of West African tribes like the Fulani and their sense of style.

[@demetriuswilliams1]

I liiive for “For Harriet” videos ! Informative , educational and always unapologetically PRO BLACK ✌🏾

[@introspect86]

Alright King 👑

[@jackawatkins87]

Check out Tea With Queen and J podcast. It's brilliant..... Every week

[@patb2582]

What does for Harriet mean?????

[@classassignment3643]

Kim with THE CONSISTENT content!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@msdionne.a]

Regarding 4c hair, I think that there are two things. 1. Many of us, especially over 30, did not learn how to style and care for our natural hair growing up. 2. I think that it requires more care. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that. This doesn't mean that 4c hair is bad or wrong. It just is. Here is an analogy: Because of the melanin in my skin, many people think I'm in my late 20s. Women of other origins tend to age at a different rate. My skin is not better; it is just different. That said, I'm grateful for both!

[@Lisa_Flowers]

I agree! Something needing more care or maintenance doesn't mean it's bad or inferior. I just think that there's already so much stigma attached to 4c hair that saying that it needs more care seemingly adds to that, there's an urge to defend it. The lack of value attributed to 4c hair makes it hard to admit that it could have anything about it that could potentially be viewed as a 'weakness'.

[@candicer2336]

The timing of this is topic 🤦🏽‍♀️ I am currently going through this with my partner. I’m natural and she wears her hair relaxed. She frequently comments on my hair not be shaped or not uniformed. It’s frustrating. I get compliments on my hair all the time. Even if I didn’t I still love my hair in its natural state. It took me several years to reprogram my thinking and I’m still working on it.

[@brittdavis1]

Good for you! Im so happy you're feeling beautiful and somewhat comfortable. eff what she's saying, she needs to stop putting that crap in her hair. It has just been said to cause cancer. STOP NOWWWW!!!!

[@heathertea2704]

Candice good for YOU.😊

[@bevog]

Three womanist race nerds. Three! I love to see you guys together.

[@AJ-cq5pw]

Kim doesn't refer to herself as womanist last time I checked. She's very adamant about calling herself a feminist instead

[@xxBlueCinnamonxx]

@@AJ-cq5pw What exactly is a womanist?

[@cosmic130]

@@xxBlueCinnamonxx in brief: womanism explores race, gender and class from the perspective of the black woman AND recognises men's role and seeks partnership with men in addressing identified issues. Feminism primarily addresses gender and does not go out of its way to include men, and may even actively exclude men in addressing identified issues.

[@ad2094]

I intentionally use only synthetic or premium synthetic hair because once I found out human hair was HUMAN hair, it was a no (I thought it was just manufactured to be like human hair). The idea of cutting off some woman's hair to stick it on my head, especially possible spiritual aspects, was horrifying to me 😭

[@NieshaThomas]

My mom taught me... I've been natural for 10 years with 4c hair. I've had a TWA, big fro, a fade and now I have locs. I used to get people saying I was gonna have mixed people hair (both my parents are black) and I had 4c and so many people (black people) hated it. Hell my twin didn't like my hair because people always told her her hair would be too "nappy" but now she's natural and she's so happy which I love.

[@re9724]

"We should be safe with one another."

[@fredrika27]

Very true!

[@aliahc8595]

I read this right at the moment she said this 👀

[@septemberhale7018]

I would attribute my hair insecurities from my. Mom. She has been wearing weaves since the 90’s. So I developed the same issue with my hair. Growing up seeing my moms hair is was considered “good” 3a/3b she never wore it. Her response it’s too thin and short. So me with 4b/4c hair didn’t have a chance if my moms hair was ugly mine had to be disgusting. I always covered my hair! I went natural and still wore wigs! Embarrassed about the way my hair grows out of my head! Sad! Now I’m my early thirties I see the beauty in my hair after the majority of my life I was told it was ugly and nappy! I’m stepping into the new decade with my 4c hair and if you don’t like it don’t look 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@queenmo1105]

To answer the question. My mother. The moment she put that creamy crack in my hair.

[@brittdavis1]

😂

[@queenmo1105]

Victory Begins in the Garden I was 5 I didn’t ask for anything 😔

[@Gigilovehugs]

I hope we all as black women learn to love ourselves regardless of what type of hair texture we have without caring about what other races or what men or what work sectors may think.

[@re9724]

It just pains me that what naturally comes out of my head is not acceptable, seriously that it would effect whether or not I can get a job. God gave me this hair, and yet someone else has the right to say it is not acceptable! What other race is told you have to change the texture of what naturally grows from your head in order to navigate in the world. This is just too deep for me!

[@ZSAN12]

I never hated my hair in its natural state. I hated the relaxers I got to make my hair straight, a style I never thought was a good look on me. I stopped the chemical cycle 20yrs ago. Im happily curly now!!!!!!

[@neekwyd]

love all of this fresh content with collaborators. even if you all don’t agree, the conversation is still constructive, enlightening and respectful.

[@rifflezuccure1315]

NOT WITH FILTHY!!! TALK THAT LIGHT SKIN GIRL IS SAYING!!!!

[@LynetteDenise]

What's interesting is that I can name several occasions where White people have referred to my hair as kinky. In the Black subculture, in all of my 49 years, a Black person has never called my hair kinky, because I have a looser curl pattern to my hair than many. What we fail to realize is that as a community, our hair is usually viewed as the same to others. We only view certain hair textures as "better" amongst ourselves.

[@AmKDWIFE]

Yes! 3b to 4c seen as the same to them..

[@LynetteDenise]

First and Last name, exactly!!

[@Mina-sr1jt]

Interesting!

[@ad2094]

That's why colorism is a different conversation from racism, though there are overlaps. When talking about this scale of skin shades and hair textures it is *within* groups or colour

[@LynetteDenise]

Aderinsola Adesida, true!

[@eugeniyah8078]

I’m loving these kinds of discussions - what a way to break generational curses when it comes to the stigma that has been placed on 4C hair.

[@MetaDoll]

once upon a time when I was a little girl, I started to dislike my hair because of elementary school. I used to get picked on for not having my hair straightened, and the kids in school called me nappy head all the time. The little boys and girls. Now I love my natural hair. I wear my hair in wash and gos 90% of the time.

[@GemNini]

I never hated my hair. I just never knew how to maintain it. Growing up, my second oldest sister used to do my hair. Once she moved out, I permed my hair because I didn't know what to do with it. So I had a permed from 10 to 18. My first year in college I was transitioning from permed hair to natural. KZbin helped me a lot with my natural hair.

[@monique7885]

Yeah same. I don’t ever remember HATING my hair. However I don’t remember not getting a relaxer when I was growing up. I transitioned my senior year of high school and big chopped the following summer.

[@tulip324]

My mom says to this day when she relaxed my hair (her sister convinced her to) she always regretted it. She was not a fan of my natural hair when I first started and she does have and issue with it not looking “tamed.” She does compliment me and play in my hair but sadly it took her a long time to come around.

[@shanice8351]

My mother taught me to hate my 4c hair. Since the age of 1 or 2yrs old I've been forced to get my hair relaxed till was 15. My hair had to either be straight or put in conrows. I never got a choice in the matter. I was met with passive aggressiveness, whenever I tried to refuse. When I started my natural hair journey my mother would say rude remarks about how I was managing my hair. Even though my hair was thicker and healthier, than her thin relaxed hair 🙄 Im 20 now and i haven't seen or spoken to that woman 2 years. All my childhood trauma and self hatred stems from her.

[@donnett3]

I always wonder why we as black women feel the need to change our hair so frequently. This is often the reason provided when we're asked why we wear weave 90% of the time. I think its a part of the conversation worth examining further. Is it just an innocent preference or is this feeling of boredom with our look and needing to drastically change the length, color and texture every month point to some level of insecurity or pathology? A part of me thinks it's the rush and excitement we get with each new hairstyle. Maybe it gives us a dose of happiness or self esteem in a world that is hostile towards black women. Maybe it's about wanting to stand out from the crowd, you know "peacock" if you will. I dont know, just food for thought.

[@jo.onthego]

This is an interesting topic. I'm currently working in a space with older black woman who keep the same natural hairstyles with slight variation. But outside of our group of black women, the company is still majority white and multicultural. My older black woman coworker recently introduced me to a white worker and said "You may not recognize her because she'll have a different hairstyle next week". She's such a nice lady, but that took me back. I'm like one of 3 young black girls in the office, I'm not suddenly unrecognizable. I know black women talk about loving to transform themselves with new hair like the DMX Challenge, but it feels odd coming from someone else.

[@donnett3]

@@jo.onthego Its interesting that it was the older black lady that said to you. You would think it wouldn't be a big deal to her but I guess it a generational thing too. Typically it's the white coworkers making those comments. The joke is I where my hair in a wash and go 98% of the time. I've put it crochet locs once in the winter for 6 weeks last year and once in summer and I still got comments. "You changed your hair again?!" I also work in majority white clinic but there are a few other black women who change their hair way more than I do so was confused. It seems other women in these settings are very attuned to what we do with our hair. Not that we should let that stop us from changing it up every once in while if we want to.

[@jo.onthego]

@@donnett3 Right! It could be 3 styles a year or a different style every week and folks still act shook. I loved the part at the end of the video where they talked about joy in black hair. Changing our hair is one of the ways we find pleasure and affirm ourselves as black women and I'm here for it!

[@Thatcaramelchic]

Black hair is a love hate relationship. I relate so heavily to what Kin said about 4C hair being a bit harder to manage in its natural state. I’m natural BUT my hair is straight 95% of the time and I want to be 100% honest it’s less of a headache this way I don’t have to think about my hair when it’s straight. I dont have to do it every night I can pull it in a bun and go Or I can switch up the style three or four times a week if I want to and it’s “PREDICTABLE”. I know how to manage my 4C hair I’ve wore it in its natural state but the work I have to put into it is just not comparable to the lack of effort I have to put into it when it’s straight. Not to mention the judgment from others when your hair is natural in the world of dating it gets to the point we’re its not even worth the energy sadly

[@Lisa_Flowers]

4c hair may well be 'harder to manage' but I think it's always important to remember that there are different parameters concerning what 'done' or 'presentable' looks like with straight vs kinky hair. Not having to worry about your hair when it's straight may come from it being easier to deal with, or from the fact that we just generally leave much more space for straight hair to diverge from perfect neatness before it's considered 'unkempt' or inappropriate. 'Messy' is even a style with straight hair, i.e. messy buns and braids. White people can walk out the door with their hair uncombed and it be considered a style. 4c hair doesn't have that luxury, so much so that even explicitely styled 4c hair is sometimes considered unkempt.

[@loverofmysoul8742]

Ms. Erin do what makes you happy and what makes your life easier. Let anyone who doesn't like it know YOUR hair is none of THEIR business. Life is too short to spend so much of it doing hair.

[@pandoraheartsvd]

My classmates from kindergarten all the way to highschool taught me to hate my hair. It got so bad that I felt like a needed a relaxer to be beautiful. I remember constantly begging my mom to buy me relaxer kits when hair got "nappy" It took me up until my senior year of highschool when my hair was too damaged so I got a big chop.

[@ad2094]

I'm happy with hair typing. It wasnt enough to just see women with 'afro-textured' hair style and grow their hair if it wasnt my TYPE of hair. Yes there are general hair types but having the terms made it easier to find other women and communities of people whose hair looked like mine and then I learnt how to take care and realize the potential of my hair

[@TheSleepyBeautyCo]

Content game on POINT!

[@shwattttyyyyy]

TV Italian??? 💀 i’m stealing that!

[@farhiyaa4880]

Wearing a head wrap (west african or muslim hijab) with different styles is much more affordable. $5-$10/each is more affordable and no damage to hair. Once your hair is covered in a wrap..it's not discussed at all.

[@DefineMorena]

True

[@sashapollard92]

My momma cut my hair off when I was in preschool. Then when it grew out, she permed it. In elementary school, people would pull my hair. In middle school, I was bullied by another black girl about my hair. In high school, I had locs that were beautiful, healthy and long. Everyone wanted to touch them. One of my jealous friends pulled my hair. A girl that didn't like me because of my ex randomly came up to me and touched my hair and complimented me. I said thankyou. Then she held onto my hair to the point I had to yank it out her hand. She was trying to pull my hair. These were all black women. To this day I keep it cut because I am afraid who is going to pull it next when it grows.

[@jacquelinejacqueline162]

These conversations are DEEP, and I'm loving them.

[@tlldrkhndsum]

Tea with Queen & J & Kim! What a collab. I’m here for all these lovely women!!! 🙌🏾

[@Vainashell]

I am an Asian woman learning about women here. Even in my community there are beauty standards in place that women struggle to achieve or overcome.

[@averytruffelmen6230]

I just want to thank Kim for being a positive space on KZbin, where everthing seems to be a trash fire.

[@tonydivaconstructfm4987]

i love her twists omg so stunning

[@Hannahvpr]

Honestly when I had my hair relaxed I used to think natural hair was harder, but 4years into being natural, after finding products made for me and leaning my hair, I don’t find my 4b hair any harder than my relaxed hair. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@ZalinaW]

I hate when ladies say it's harder to manage 4c hair than straight hair. No it is not! It is different. It's only "harder" to manage 4C hair because mentally one is struggling to style her hair to the standards of "straight" hair. If "we" never knew of straight hair and never knew that "straight" hair has been accepted as the epitome of beauty, we would have never attached "harder" to taking care of our hair. We'd just take care of it and that would be it. We've been straightening our hair so long, we have to make a movement back to being "natural". This is kind of ridiculous. 💆🏽🙍🏽🤦🏽‍♀️

[@Nekole1]

I agree. Love this comment!

[@heathertea2704]

TRUTHS!!!👏👏👏

[@MusicbyEverlasting]

My Dad’s mother relaxed my hair when I was 2! My mother was furious. Unfortunately I kept getting relaxers until I was 14. I then found the natural hair movement and did a big chop and felt great, I was always told “oh you have to wear big earrings/dress more feminine” so I felt uncomfortable, like less of a woman for having short 4c hair. Then I found wigs and would wear it 24/7 until this day. I always said it was a protective style. It was only protecting me from negative comments from people I date/the world around me. I’m still working on trying to accept it.

[@ChibiKawaii3]

That white hair is cute af. I hate how I still struggle with my hair and loving myself. I feel like I'm too old to still have the struggle but I wear bandanas practically daily because I dislike my hair so much. My hair is now "natural" (I stopped relaxers nearly 5 years ago) but it's such a struggle with styling it. I want to be completely body confident from my hair to my skin but it's so many years of unlearning idk where to begin.

[@heathertea2704]

Vanice you're in a process of change NOW & That's awesome. 😊 Baby steps.

[@biancalord488]

I don’t even like hair typing. I’m not going to put my hair in a category

[@laquayle7990]

Agreed! It's mine. That's the category

[@shex7873]

I find it interesting that there is a push back on this. What is wrong with categorizing hair type?

[@bestofbothworlds4736]

It's not the categories that bother some of yall.

[@rifflezuccure1315]

VERY TRUE!!! THEY LOVE!!! TO BE FAKE !!!

[@shawnie7777]

Exactly!! I find hair typing silly and another example of a seperatist mindset. Why not categorize your skin color too, and how white your teeth are....and how wide your lips or nose is? Where's the line? Why purposefully buy into boxes,labels and categories? Don't get it !

[@22221mm]

OMG. I hate wedding culture too! Thank you for saying this. Crying.

[@lola.odetola]

Regarding the sleeker or slicked styles being white adjacent/ assimilative, I want to explain that a lot of our African ancestors wore sleek, detangled, wavy styles too. The Afro is not the only “pro-black” style. It’s one of many. I do completely agree that there is an unhealthy obsession with the sleeker look within the natural hair community but I in no way see it as anything other than black with no pre colonial influence. Let’s also talk about damage. Tightly coiled hair (not always but a lot of the time) thrives in stretched, detangled, elongated styles. Having your 4C hair in an Afro for a majority of the time can be exceedingly drying.

[@brithomp]

Lola speak on it!!

[@lola.odetola]

ToyosiFawehinmi Yes you’re absolutely correct!

[@amandachiro3318]

I’m from South Africa so context may be different and I don’t take too much stock in how men react to my physical appearance (like it is what it is, men holler at anyone) But do you notice how black men in particular treat you with different hairstyles - as well as the type of men who approach you - afro vs braids vs wigs. It messes with me a bit too. I’ve done a lot of work to love my hair and make choices with my hair.. so when I make a choice and then “these raggedy men” change their treatment it casts doubt on my choices.. makes me feel a type of way

[@jaebyrd4608]

I have iron deficiency anemic and I am a marker for sickle cell anemia meaning I suffer with anemia no matter what I do and I a allergic to synthetic iron I say all this to say I sometimes get caught up in the effect it has on my hair and I am like oh no I have to fix this I'm ugly but then I remember it's just hair and I put on a hat and go about my day.

[@Gaptoothedgiant]

I literally screamed when I saw one of my favourite KZbinrs has done a video with my favourite podcasters

[@jaycee9968]

Wura Oyedeji same❤️

[@CNJL1]

I think the only way to get rid of a lot of these issues is to wear your natural hair and get comfortable with your natural hair. I think a lot of these conversations would disappear if everyone got used to and promoted their own as well as other’s natural hair. Not saying that’s easy but sometimes we have to be the example for change. I still think natural hair on black people is the most radical look. Colorful wigs and white braids are still more acceptable on black women than natural hair. Black women seem a lot more comfortable wearing say a hot pink wig than a twa.

[@daisyflower1545]

Agreed!!

[@donnett3]

True words

[@ellegoddessessentials2547]

The amount of money we spend on weaves would be more acceptable if the money was going back into our hands into our Community but it is not

[@raquelkthomas]

Elvonne's Essentials So true!

[@jetblackhair92]

Beyonce - the reveal 'im not a bald-headed skallywag' 😂😅

[@bonnykhalalelo5298]

Jay speaking on the pressure to be feminine, for me I experience the flip where because I am short, and curvy with round face. I am fetishized. Had an experience where someone insulted my friend by complimenting me. This guy was praising my height and small feet and saying this is how I "real woman" and she (my friend) asked who is a fake woman. I was hurt that someone could use my existance to insult someone i care about.

[@theshevirgo]

My mom permed my hair when I was 4 until I decided to go natural I had NO memory of my natural hair. So I was taught to hate my hair at a young age. My mom also often kept my hair in braids. I had an older relative who used to hate how my mom did my hair. I remember being a kid getting my hair braided and she would always say it’s nonsense you don’t need all that in your hair. I used to feel she was picking on me but as an adult I get it now. She was the only adult around me that didn’t use nappy and always corrected me to say Kinky. She never relaxed her daughters hair until she was 12 and her kid had beautiful hair. Still does. When I went natural in 2004 my family talked about me like a dog. Didn’t help I had 4c hair had ZERO idea how to take care of it nor did my mom or any of the women around me even knew how to handle natural hair other than “kids” styles. It wasn’t until later on when a lot of people started going natural that I stopped getting shit. My mom completely acts like she didn’t give me a complex and claims she too is natural but I can clearly see it’s been texturized. So even with her trying to embrace her hair she still doesn’t embrace her natural texture. I still struggle with my hair especially as my hair no matter what I do won’t grow past a certain length. I’ve stopped focusing on length and on general health and accepted my hair as it.

[@brittanydavis1512]

Yes!!! When sis starting explaining the different types of black girl look, I HOLLERED! I’m guilty of rocking the “I came from the hood, but I have this master’s degree, don’t trip- black girl look”. I was truly moved by this video. It has definitely increased my self awareness.

[@msjigglypuff91]

My family made me hate my hair. It always hurt getting it done because they didn’t know how to do it correctly, and eventually I just started doing my own hair with no education of how to properly care for 4c hair. My aunt was a beautician with 4a or 3c hair, and she would always say I and my family (my mother and her kids) needed a perm, hair was nappy, called me bald headed, etc. I went natural when the movement first started to pick up and tried educating myself. But at that time, most of the available videos were 3-4a hair people doing all the twist outs etc, with thick, long hair. They’d do the big chop and have hair down their backs in like a year. And I thought something was wrong with mine because it never came out like theirs. Ten years later, my hair is healthy and I know how to care for it and am still learning. My hair won’t get very long though, unfortunately. It hasn’t gone past my shoulders in my ten years of being natural, and that’s all I ever really wanted. Long hair. But I like my natural hair and am past the point of allowing criticism to damper my confidence

[@eshaup13]

We have the same name and I’ve literally never experienced that, so I had to say hey 👋🏾

[@msjigglypuff91]

Iesha Upshaw hey girl hey!

[@ophiliaxo]

Kim!! the way you were just relishing in this conversation!! lmao I love how excited you get having important conversations with other black women, I can feel it through the screen

[@lakithagoss897]

Me too. I love the positive energy.🙌

[@akashicsong9904]

Great conversation Kim! I want to respond to the piece around ethical weaves/wigs wearing. I’ve done this research for myself and there’s a company called Terracycle that recycles synthetic hair (among a lot of other hard to recycle items) via a mail in box. You order a box from their website or get your local salon to get one as it would be more cost effective for them. Then you keep adding hair to it until the box is filled and schedule a pick up from the company or mail it to them. Human hair weaves/wig units can also be sent to them if not reusing. I’ve been stacking up units until I can get a box. They run about $75 so it’s def an investment but it will take awhile to fill anyway. I appreciate this kind of dialogue and the interview sessions in general you are doing sis 💕

[@taraspeaks6293]

Great topic. Honestly the person you or people who you love and whose hair you admire ALSO taught you to hate your hair. Meaning your mother, sister, aunts, friends etc. I was taught that black hair is your crown and glory only after you labor, struggle, maneuver, stress, loathe and complain the whole time while caring for it. I was taught to loathe and love my hair simultaneously that I had a hard time getting to the love part. I'm there now but it took decades.

[@heathertea2704]

Tara Speaks out here PREACHING & TEACHING.😊

[@jamiAkos]

What's wild is at 37 almost 38 years of age I've been natural for all but two years of my life. And having a perm was so hard and draining for me. The constant up keep of a perm...WHEW! The thought of it makes me shudder now. I was often baffled by the thought of natural (4c-z) hair being "difficult". For me it is WAY easier than having a perm, again I shudder at the upkeep. Then I realized that what that statement is actually saying it is more difficult for me because I am still trying to achieve straight hairstyles with my kinky coily hair. Yeah, I bet that is a challenge. Imo, I see a lot of naturals who are trying to achieve looks for another hair texture instead of rocking 4c hairstyles (there are plenty). If you're natural and wanting to rock a sleek ponytail that's going to take some extra effort. And doing that everyday would be exhausting I imagine. But hey I wear styles that highlight (night alter) my hair and I'm busy so I'm not about to "wash n' go (that mess takes hours and for what?)

[@soggytortillla]

I was just watching another FH video and this popped up... Christmas came early

[@Daya-ir2fy]

sameeee

[@ashdacraft]

One time I had a twist out and my coworker had a TWA and our white woman coworker came by and said “ I think you girls would look so pretty if you just wear your hair down” And me and my coworker just looked at each other and looked at her and I just kind of pointed at my head like *bitch this is down the fuck* We both know she met straight 😒

[@justblack1]

I have zero issues with natural hair. Everyone in my home is natural, my children and their father are proudly natural, no waves, no blow dryers, flat irons, or edge control. I recently had to cut my 4c hair because I got sick. I either wear hats or I wear wigs when I go to places I cant wear my hat because my natural hairline is NOT cute. So I'll see yall when my hair grows to a length that covers my hairline. Lol Until then, I'm TWA natural around the house.

[@stanfatou2002]

I cannot go through life without a blow dryer. I love my hair shrunken and stretched.

[@FTKComputer]

You should have your own network TV show, you are a great interviewer and make the guests feel comfortable while also holding people accountable and always speaking your peace. I love these videos.

[@MoniqueIsMyMuse]

I absolutely loooovvveeeddd this conversation!!!!!!

[@txblackbeltacademynortharl6498]

Yes! I wanted those zigzag parts too! Never got them :-(

[@TheOnlyOluwa]

just got my read more bell hooks sweater!

[@ForHarriet619]

❤️

[@jen4264]

Growing up I didn't know my hair could grow so those length check videos actually helped me

[@ForHarriet619]

Queen and J.'s aftershow will be a Patreon exclusive: Patreon.com/ForHarriet Get a "read more bell hooks" shirt: ShopForHarriet.com

[@blackmeca2901]

My mom would not let me go swimming. I would sit by the pool while all my friends got to go swimming in 95 degree weather. I still fuss at her about that....lol

[@Housewarmin]

Can you please link these women's socials? I would like to find these lovely ladies. (Also, the women in your Afro-latinx video)

[@nmania3]

@Teawithqj @thequeenspeaks_ @janiciaf that's their IGs

[@yveqeshy]

Hey that's Queen and J their Twitter is @TeawithQJ

[@jaycee9968]

And contribute to their patreons 😊

[@deezonyxde77]

4c hair is easy to manage. You just have to check your mindset.

[@StyleBySheena]

Thank you for having this conversation!

[@stillirise4401]

This was a great conversation!

[@alishainc]

These are my traumas 😂: As a kid, my great grandma used to tell me 'Your hair is your beauty' and it always made me feel weird like what?! One of my dad's sisters (she doesn't get auntie status you'll understand why) once told me 'I have to be mixed because my hair is too soft' I was a teen and confused I told her 'noooo i'm not mixed...' she retorted 'You're mum must be and you don't know it' What kind of stupid bullshit?!!? I don't claim relation to her. Thank God my mum doesn't have these mindsets but in elementary she did pull out half my head on sundays combing it and putting grease so I'd be ready for the week. Anyone else relate? This conversation is so needed in the community

[@janelmartinez5579]

Great conversation with Queen and J!

[@intherapture]

Some of the Grapevine's finest! Love this convo

[@lifebyjo3999]

Omg love them on the Grapevine ♥️♥️♥️♥️ thank you so much for doing this!

[@TheTbmbishop]

I noticed when I put my daughters hair in a fro and posted a picture, people would tell me to do her hair. I was angry because to me it was done. That was during the time that most people were trying to transition but I had already been natural.

[@StarrL0rdess]

Love these two! Thanks for having then on Kim. Love your work too.

[@brithomp]

I’m so glad you guys are having this conversation! I can attest to still being plagued by Eurocentric standards of beauty bc while I feel comfortable wearing my hair in it’s the natural state I feel prettiest when it’s stretched to show length and the like...there’s still a lot of unpacking that needs to be done and I’m glad you ladies are getting the convo started 💋

[@indigof2989]

I’m loving these discussions! I love how good at conversation you are. I never even thought about the way they describe hair on the bottles and so many of these points 😅

[@lydiawalker0714]

I love how well-rounded this conversation is. You three touch on some interesting connections that I never considered.