Game‌ ‌of‌ ‌Thrones/ASOIAF‌ ‌Theories‌ ‌|‌ ‌Rhaegar‌ ‌|‌ ‌Look‌ ‌With‌ ‌Your‌ ‌Eyes‌

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Sorry for the reupload! There was an issue with the one we had previously uploaded, so we fixed it and added this revised version. For those of you who haven't seen it, enjoy!

[@highrhino]

Aww you had me all excited for a minute till I clicked the vid and realised i had seen it before but it was worth a rewatch

[@skwisgaarskwigelf331]

I watched it full all the same.

[@Blaklyon0]

We welcome your return.

[@gershmuch9044]

All good !! Enjoyed it like new content

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

I really enjoyed the show, no need to apologize. 🔥🔥

[@Blaklyon0]

Lyanna Stark: Robert would never commit to one bed... Also Lyanna Stark: in bed with a married man, that has 2 children and, a sickly wife...

[@wilksakura651]

And that why I have difficulty accepting that she went willingly. As in yes maybe she went to runaways from her marriage but not to bed rhaegar. It just doesn't make sense with what we know.

[@cars81434]

@@wilksakura651 Well we knew Lyanna would never go to Rhaegar without a fight if he did truly kidnap and rape her but what if Rhaegar somehow manipulate Lyanna to fall for him? It wouldn’t be too hard for Rhaegar to lied since he grew up in court so he had to learn this and Lyanna being in the North most of her life who don’t care about schemes and gossip, it makes anyone in the North vulnerable in the South. While I’m sure Lyanna thought of these things but it wouldn’t to hard for Rhaegar of playing as this sad prince who was forced into a loveless marriage. Thus being able catch and persuade Lyanna into marriage, have his third dragon baby, and fulfill the prophecy

[@apBSThetic]

@@cars81434 Exactly! I think he was grooming her since crowning her the queen of love and beauty.

[@gilsonpassos1047]

@@apBSThetic you guys nailed It, the word grooming fits perfectly

[@shannond7437]

Nothing in George’s story is black and white. Ned even thought about how he didn’t think Rhaegar was the type to frequent brothels like Robert. There is a reason we know next to nothing about Rhaegar and Lyanna!

[@sirarthurofwinterfell282]

This video was sponsored by Robert Baratheon

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

love it !! it really feels like the first upload now !!

[@paschalnwosu1657]

gods.... you’re right!

[@benogurok5175]

Alleras came by, tossed a couple of coins on relatives' behalf as well.

[@faisalkamal4319]

I mean at this point it's a Robert Baratheon or a family of mad incest dragon spawns

[@BruhMoment-mn9kn]

​@@faisalkamal4319if only Robert was able to *end* all of them.....

[@saurondp]

That's something that always stuck in my craw after reading the books. Everyone loved him, yet you never heard any sort of virtue about him outside of his intelligence and talent. Yet, the actions that we are privy to speak of someone who acts completely impulsively without any concern for others. In essence, Rhaegar was the very definition of a sociopath.

[@theelectricprince8231]

Rhaegar is like Daemon

[@oldenvye6432]

Plot twist: Rhaegar has been connected to the weirwood net the whole time whispering into everyone's ears: "I was awesome, you love Rhaegar don't you?"

[@subarnosinha8042]

Take my like and bugger off!

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

hahahahahahaha plausible

[@DjDiamstatOfficial]

😂 😂 😂

[@rodrickhatton8636]

Fuuuuuuuuuuck! I hate that I like how wild AND probable this is.

[@TheMrprobadass]

I wish there was a laugh react on this website.

[@lewisbean9131]

Rhaegar: *reads about Aragorn* The next day "It appears i am to be a warrior"

[@kevinvest9693]

Hes got the best pr department in Westeros. Hes screwed up every plan caused a war that kill thousands including most of his family and his children. And it seems like everyone loves him

[@Captain-Axeman]

Ehm, I got one question how stupid is that comment? Seriously, he lost the war was probably seen as a villain by the common people. Just think for a second, Robert hated him comptelty do you think he would make the kings som look sympathic?

[@kevinvest9693]

@@Captain-Axeman Ned stark, sir barastien, all of tywin's kids have nothing but glowing comments to make about him. As for Robert, if your fiancee runs of with another man are you going to speak kindly of him. Reagar was kind of a weirdo objectively.

[@fbball2464]

Lmao

[@jacobenke7936]

I think we're going to learn some things about the Rebellion once Aegon makes his claim. The war was coming since long before Duskendale, when Aerys really went off the rails. Look at the marriages/betrothals that were happening, and who else they tried to include. North/Vale/Riverlands/Stormlands, and if two others had worked out the West and Redwynes. That would have put 70% of Westeros on the side of the rebels before the war began. That no one says anything about this pisses me off, frankly.

[@1handedtyper]

When you read crazy ol' Cersei's thoughts, she seems to be obsessed with the idea of Rhaegar, rather than the man himself.

[@DM-Oz]

Ironically, this is what people say about Robert with Lyanna

[@Pacbandit13]

@@DM-Oz both were mad. Robert was a basketcase as well, obsessed, bloodthirsty, quick to violent moods. Robert sociopath and Rhaegar the physcopath.

[@PeterBryanson]

@@Pacbandit13 I agree but I would switch those around, I think Robert is the psychopath and rhaegar the sociopath

[@Pacbandit13]

@@PeterBryanson Robert was unhinged without a manipulative bone in his body typical sociopath. Rhaegar was apparently a master manipulator since no one knew him from birth, perfect physcopath.

[@michaelis2958]

@@PeterBryanson Robert was not a psychopath, he felt affection for his bastard children and for Ned, he even regretted hitting Cersei and asked Eddard to stop the murder of Daenerys (Psychopaths can't do that) Rhaegar is another matter

[@tobarash159]

One of the most upsettings things to me about Rhaegar and Lyana, is that none of them go back to try to stop the war, even when the family of Lyana was butchered, and her beloved brother dragged to war, the mother of Rhaegar alone with her lunatic husband, thousands of people murdered because of them, if truly they were in love they were absolute selfish morons, and if Lyana was kidnaped then Rhaegar is even shitier than he seems

[@jordanrutledge7943]

okay here's the thing, those of us who are more optimistic about rhaegar suspect that he had some kind of foreknowledge of events Bloodraven-esque. furthermore, there is reason to suspect that the Stark-Arryn-Lannister-Baratheon alliance was not simply loyal to the throne before the fiasco with Rhaegar and Lyanna, but rather that they had been planning a usurpation for a long time, and that it is not necessarily the case that the war could've been stopped by Rhaegar and Lyanna, or prevented by them in the first place either. if Rhaegar really did believe that a union with Lyanna was necessary to prevent the end of the world, then it is more understandable what he did. now all that said, it would definitely be very GRRM if Rhaegar was just a madman, like Aerys but more sophisticated. I'm just fascinated to see what happens

[@tobarash159]

@@jordanrutledge7943 I don't doubt the war against Targaryen, Aerys really neded a sword to the face asap, and I know stop the war would have been almost impossible, but when the family is in danger you do something, Lyana didn't return to her family, either she doesn't care enough or she couldn't wich sems Rhaegar fault

[@jonsouth1545]

They didn't even need to go back if she had sent a single raven to Ned that would have been enough to stop the war

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@@jonsouth1545 depends on the timing.

[@thomaschaumeil3878]

@@jordanrutledge7943 Petyr Baelish and Lisa Tully, along with Maester Walys that's what happened.... After all, Raven can disappear, and a letter is easily burn after some read it, and don't like the content, when it is not in their own selfish agenda to reveal the content to those concern....

[@DeAngryDan]

These books went from being front and center of my downtime to accepting the realisation that these stories will only be finished by you tube theories and probably notes compressed into another coffee table book from his editors. Il always be thankful for how much these stories meant to me.

[@fuckoffgoogle1657]

Dave and Mary-Ellen have honestly come up with stuff just as good as any ending he would have written, the way I see it. Order of the Greenhand is the best way to experience the story in the end lol

[@Spawned-uy8ip]

Someone finally did it. I've been saying Rhaegar that Rhaegar's obsession with saving the 7 kingdoms nearly brought it to ruin. He didn't love Lyanna. He thought coupling with her was necessary to fulfill the prophecy. The man was clearly unstable. As for Lyanna, it seems that she just fell for the beautiful "Prince Charming". She wasn't a bright girl.

[@BurkeanMama]

I read all the books in one binge. I saw Rhaegar as a villain who caused all the harm by kidnapping Lyanna. It never occurred to me for a second that Rhaegar was a good guy. Then I watched some KZbin videos and people loved this villain, revered this villain. I couldn't imagine gow this was possible. I thought the whole of KZbin was not sane. Then I found this video and your channel. It was so good to find sanity.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

well, thank you!

[@OscyJack-]

I think you'll find, that outside of certain lannisters, there aren't any true villains within asoiaf. Only those who each wish to live their own way. Even the lannisters can be included there. The starks as well as the targs all have their moments of glory and tragedy. I personally think it's a cop out to simply name rhaegar a villain, starks are heros etc. There much more to the narrative than that

[@nadjapavlovic5953]

@@OscyJack- yeah maybe there is no true villian in asoiaf but there is also no true hero either. It's all gray. And yet people seem to think about Rheager as this perfect guy and a "true hero of asoiaf"

[@OscyJack-]

@@nadjapavlovic5953 I agree with you. There is no hero either without the perspective from that subjects POV and their own character arc. It's definitely shades of gray. To many, jon snow is the hero. To the cotf, pretty much all humans are the enemy and they take a page out of agent smiths viewpoint of "humans are a cancer on the earth"

[@OscyJack-]

@Dexy Nash definitely not all of them. Asoiaf is riddled with "problems" greater and less than that one topic. That may have even been the 'problem' that helped raise awareness to the deeper mysteries long forgotten

[@deckofcards5985]

He was perfect for Cercei. Great video BTW.

[@AwesomeMusicLady]

Imagine if they’d ended up together.

[@faisalkamal4319]

Mad king - how about no

[@faisalkamal4319]

@@AwesomeMusicLady she would've killed during Robert's rebellion

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Eh, not enough like her brother.

[@Spawned-uy8ip]

@@faisalkamal4319 Rhaegar was even crazier.

[@lapersianaperta]

Who knows what was born that night. If blood magic was used at Summerhall, probably we didn't even get the Rhaegar that we would have if he was born, for example, the day before. There is something weird in him. Maybe he was just some sociopath, but for me he wasn't a real person to begin with. We already know blood magic can turn unborn children in other things, like Rhaego. And knowing Martin's love for this kind of reference, is that a coincidence that Rhaego was named after Rhaegar? Is that a hint for them both being victim of their family underestimating the effects of blood magic?

[@jordanpax9735]

I think part of the problem is for the in universe crowd it's easy to ignore his level of psychosis because of how openly his father's is displayed. He's like Joffrey if people heard about him butchering cats, but ignored it because he was a great warrior and public speaker compared to "his father's " lascivious behavior with the wine and wenches

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Not quite. Jeoffrey continuously did openly questionable acts rather than just a two or three

[@rincewindXIV]

"All of George's characters have nothing but good to say about Rheagar" Get me the fucking BREASTPLATESTRETCHER!

[@jacobenke7936]

To be fair, Robert is probably the worst judge of character in the story.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

I mean sure he has a blind spot with Rhaegar. Which is fair. If my cousin kidnapped my betrothed I’d hate his guts too.

[@alanotheoak6002]

One of the significant differences between Daenerys and Rhaegar is that Daenerys doesn't act upon prophecies like Rhaegar did. She remembers them and considers the signs where they are obvious or relevant. And always complains about their riddled nature. Daenerys does things based on her experience, intuition and counsel. This is important because a prophecy is like a treacherous woman, as Marwyn says.

[@bassanimation]

I think this video actually nails GRRM's purpose for Rhaegar. He's the perfection we all pine desperately for but never attain. He was the very picture of fantasy, the beautiful savior knight trying to save the kingdom from an evil king. The fact that he might have just been a figment, an idea of goodness, shows GRRM's disdain for fantastical ideas. Secondly, I think Dany unfortunately will mirror Rhaegar in all the worst ways. She has all the same imagery, the same "noble causes", feels strongly she's saving Westeros. Sadly, like her brother and family, her idea of saving people is actually causing them more destruction. ;_; Great video, you guys always do a fantastic job!

[@apexax]

Ah yes, Rhaegar and Dany both have saviour complex.

[@bassanimation]

@@apexax The funny thing is, Rhaegar was probably right in what he did. He will save the world from Dany, I suppose? If that's what he foresaw, and that's why he did what he did, it does mean he saved the world.

[@rehaan6428]

@@bassanimation Saved the world from Dany? Not the literal personification of death and winter? He was right in causing a civil war that brutally murdered his family and killed tens of thousands since he read something in an old scroll that he had no way of verifying? Also when does she think she is going to “save” Westeros? As far as I recall, she wants to go to Westeros because it’s her home and even then, she’s putting it off.

[@Kunumbah1]

If this is the case why does Aegon The Conqueror exist then?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

You seem to have bizzare view of GRRM if you think he has distain fantastical ideas. He can be critical of them, but that's not the same as distain. Also it's odd to describe him as the perfection we pine for when the initial view of him is negative.

[@jordanpax9735]

Thank you I'm tired of all the delusional fan love of rhaegar or lyanna

[@alexandergangaware429]

Their daughter Val is cool though

[@jordanpax9735]

@@alexandergangaware429 you mean the wildling val?

[@alexandergangaware429]

@@jordanpax9735 Everyone keeps calling her "Princess," no matter how many times Jon reminds people that Wildlings don't follow hereditary rule (and a king's sister-in-law wouldn't be a princess anyway, not by virtue of her sister's royal marriage). Jon is correct about this, but all the same, knows nothing. Val's status as princess must come from somewhere else, plus in one chapter Jon describes her hair as silver in the moonlight, plus "Val" is short for Valyrian. R+L=V (her real name is Visenya, though, since that rounds out Rhaegar's naming scheme for his kids)

[@jordanpax9735]

@@alexandergangaware429 so then jon = n + a. Ned and ashara are jon's parents. Personally I love that idea. Wait so you believe mance is Arthur Dayne then

[@alexandergangaware429]

@@jordanpax9735 Reread Jon's sparring match with "Rattleshirt," and remember that, as Sword of the Morning, Ser Arthur would be used to wielding a zweihander. Plus, the first thing we ever see Mance do is sing "The Dornishman's Wife," and House Dayne is from Dorne. Plus, both say that their knees don't bend easily (TOotGH have the definitive video on this, imo) (Edit: How did I forget, that means Jon would be Marthur's nephew, which explains why the KBW cottons so quickly to a young man of dubious loyalty)

[@shaka2180]

😂 dude went to fight Robert Baratheon and thought he was going for a morning run

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

exactly 😂😂

[@hubblito]

It's easy to overlook pretty people's flaws 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@DjDiamstatOfficial]

Especially when they're pretty

[@hubblito]

@@DjDiamstatOfficial basically a license to murder 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@DjDiamstatOfficial]

@@hubblito oh yeah most definitely it's disgusting like for example look at all the fan girls trash like Dahmer and Scott Peterson got why? Because apparently they're good looking. Its sick.

[@rodrickhatton8636]

@@DjDiamstatOfficial I always thought that it was an exaggeration...but then I watched that Ted Bundy film with Zac Effron. I'm like, "ain't no fuckin' way" then I went to Google...SHOCKED I tell you...SHOCKED.

[@AlaskaBeary413]

Yo...one of my favorite places to meditate or just sit, is the graveyard my maternal grandparents and three great-grandparents are in. I bring them all offerings and sit with each, in turn. I also enjoy driving through graveyards, especially old/historic ones. I guess it’s weird. I like graveyards, however THEE only one I’ll get out at, is one with my people. Not so odd if your the melancholy type, as Rhaegar was. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@cherylbaxter8986]

Thank you for your comment as yes graveyards don't bother me an yes if it's family in that particular graveyard why not, some people find peace an solitude in a place where they were born an family died so yes I don't find it weird at all

[@nagihangot6133]

Graveyards must be protected literally and spiritually but ancestors must not be worshipped, they're dead, only Good(ness) God should be worshipped.

[@AlaskaBeary413]

@@nagihangot6133 I do not worship my dead grandparents/greats. I just honor and show them respect in my own way. I don’t think Rhaegar worshiped the dead either. I think, like me, his character just finds peace there.

[@Scott100W]

I think there's more to this than you suggest in this video.. In Fire and Blood there is a description of 2 children very similar to Rhaegar (No joy, no friends and not enjoying the company of other children) - These children are Aegon III and his betrothed Jahaera. Though we know the reason for these children acting this way.. Aegon lived through 3 of his brothers dying and also witnessed his uncle (Aegon II) feed his mother to his dragon when he was young. Jahaera witnessed her twin brother's death at the hands of assassins that made her mother choose which of the son's would die (then killed the son that she chose to live) The fact that the descriptions are so similar makes me positive that Rhaegar suffered some extreme traumatic event that shaped him this way... So yes I agree that Rhaegar is not to be revered the way he is, i believe the more important question is.. What happened to make him this way? I also believe that many people revere Rhaegar more than he should be because his father was so mad and terrible that his son seemed like an angel by comparison and most people couldn't wait for Rhaegar to take the throne instead, thus built him up in their heads as this great person.

[@kambuityehimba140]

A bit late but I feel that Rhaegar felt extremely traumatized about the circumstances of his birth and that's why he never found it in him to be happy

[@jesusfranco9018]

You forgot another child: VAEGON Targaryen. Rhaegar was more like Vaegon. Both boys were bookish, showed no interest in other children and games and didn't have friends... EDIT: Oh, "Hace un año"...

[@greenknightable]

Its in the same vein as the Blackfire rebellion. Charismatic leader of a faction that brings the realm to ruin. Still reveared by those he ruined.

[@JAEWST]

Rheagar is like that guy who committed a murder but people didn't want him to be arrested because "he was too cute to go to jail"

[@thebovineavenger]

A greenhand video. Nothing makes my day better. SO glad to see more from you guys. I love your lives but THESE are my favs as you guys know.

[@natalia15377]

I never saw the lyanna & rhaegar story as romantic. I mean a man of 23 who woo and seduce a 15 year old??? Plus he was a Prince meaning he had power over any girl.... That sound predatory to me. We can say that Lyanna was naive/stupid/etc but who really know if it was all rosy between the two. Maybe she was ok with it in the beginning because it was like a fairytale or maybe not 🤷🏻‍♀️. But the person who really should be blame is Rhaegar as his way of thinking is wack "my wife can't give me another baby so let me get in that 15 year old pants". He sound like one of those middle age man having a midlife crises who leave his family for the barley adult girl. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@jordanrutledge7943]

Lyanna may have been young but all indications are that she was quite mature. It doesn't seem likely that she would be easily manipulated, I think its more likely either that she was kidnapped or that she was convinced of prophecy by Rhaegar, given that she likely had greenseer powers

[@natalia15377]

@@jordanrutledge7943 Would you say that a 15 yeard old in our days is mature? No, no matter the universe/time periods a 15 year old has the brain of a teenager meaning she would be easily swayed by Rhaegar tears and sad story of a prophecy. I still call it grooming that why we have laws because teenagers are and do dumb things and that's ok they are young. But when a 23 year old adult begin to flirt with a 15 year old 🤨. I'll be asking questions about his morality.

[@coltmurphy1264]

@@natalia15377 Don't forget! At the Tourney she was 13 or 14. All we know for sure is she died at 16 in 283.

[@natalia15377]

@@coltmurphy1264 omg i though she was 15 at the tourney.... Lord that even worst! Rhaegar went for a child 😶

[@jordanrutledge7943]

@@natalia15377 I think a 15 year old *can* be mature, in any time period, so can a 13 or 14 year old. A 23 year old flirting with such a young girl is wrong because its impossible to say from his perspective which 13-15 year olds are actually mature, and in general a 23 year old seeks out 13-15 year olds because they arent mature. So basically 2 things can be true at once, Rhaegar's actions can be wrong and yet still Lyanna was acting maturely and rationally.

[@aenariontargeryen6973]

Rhaegar was a villain, he care so much why didn’t he protect his mother from his father. He care for no one not his wife nor his kids, he left for his she-wolf

[@jonsouth1545]

not only that but all he had to do to prevent the civil war is send a single god damn Raven but he went missing for almost a year

[@bungalowfeuhler1541]

I’m betting we find out that Rhaegar did, in fact, treat Lyanna exactly the way Robert believed he did.

[@aengusog3415]

Rhaegar was a prophecy obsessed mad man

[@ssa3101]

@@bungalowfeuhler1541 will be the biggest curve ball thrown by grrm yet

[@ulrichweiss9912]

Let's be real. No body in all of Westeros raised a single finger to stop Aerys until war was already an inevitability. Is Rhaegar a saint? No. There are no saints in this world, but he was in no better a position to rid the world of Aerys than anyone else. Among the myriad things you can criticize Rhaegar for, this, in my opinion, is among the weakest.

[@JungleLeeLewis]

I've thought, He IS THE BIGGEST GLAMOUR of ALL.. FOR A LONG TIME!

[@jreese7436]

Considering GRRM's age he grew up as a teenager during the JFK presidency. Rhaegar has a lot of similarities to Kennedy including a big one; Fan Fic. The number of people of a certain age who have "what if JFK had lived" fantasies is pretty high. Like with Kennedy I'd bet lots of people in Westeros have similar thoughts about Rhaegar, while conveniently leaving out his more distasteful behavior. As Martin grew up and more history became known about the former president I don't doubt that would influencethe creation of a similar character.

[@andrewward5891]

Wow I was just thinking the same thing that Rhaegar is the JFK of Westeros. Both are good looking, cheated on their wives, died tragically and are more revered for what might have been then what they actually accomplished.

[@subarnosinha8042]

Always love it when my favourite ASoIaF KZbinrs call bullshit on the most fawned over character and his "tragic love" in the fandom. Love your videos and I'm glad you got back in the business of doing what you do best. 15:06 now that's a massive understatement. "Her father and brother were inhumanly, brutally murdered in a mockery of all the laws". There, I fixed it for you.

[@agm5424]

Another reason is that because he was such a "mystery" as in people didn't know much about him that they projected their desires, their ideal visions of a king into him which seems more possible considering who he would substitute. This is also the reason why so many people blindly trust rulers and politicians they know nothing about.

[@sams7068]

Interesting idea, I wonder if there is a corollary common “mystery man/woman” in asoiaf. Bc imo when it comes to common people (IRL too) mysteriousness leads people to project fault, not virtue.

[@weaverbee2808]

Was there something wrong with Rhaegar? Yes. Yes there was!!

[@Scott100W]

Probably more than we know.... 2 children in F&B are described as joyless friendless and basically loners... Reason is because they witnessed 1 or more close family members die in gruesome ways. If you 'look with your eyes' and with a little understanding it would be easy to come to the conclusion that a young Rhaegar likely suffered some extreme traumatic event. The end of this isn't to just decide 'okay Rhaegar is just a bad guy'.. it's to try and find out why.

[@andrewward5891]

After hundreds of years of inbreeding there’s not a lot of Targaryens that are 100% sane. Rhaegar certainly wasn’t as crazy as his father and he was much better at hiding his issues. He might have been a high functioning austistic. No friends as a kid, only reading books obsessively, then having an obsession with prophecy, a lack of empathy towards his wife and the thousand of people he got killed by kidnapping Lyana.

[@mandird7952]

I agree 100%

[@spidalack]

Why did people think he was so awesome? He wasn't his dad!

[@larryforgy1702]

He was a cult of personality to the public he was this quiet handsome man who was a prodigy at everything he did know one knew anything about him because he had no personality because he had no personality no one knew his true goals also part of the reason it took so long for the Mad King to be taken down was because everyone was wiling to wait out the storm until Rhaegar became King

[@Some_guy_passing_by]

Oh . That's true. The Prince who was surrounded by cruel people isn't chopping heads left and right and is planning to overthrow the king ... He must be awesome! He probably wasn't bad , but not that great either. If he overthrew Aerys first and then took Lyanna as a second wife , people would've worshipped him like some God .

[@GeminibBorn]

Love this channel, glad to see you two still doing your thing. Some of my favorite theories are green-hand. I wish you good fortune, in the videos to come. 🤴🏽

[@oconnor6456]

Hell, yeah, back to back videos in a short time. You guys are just awesome. And I am a simple man and I like to see Rhaegar getting roasted, again.

[@jordanrutledge7943]

I think the primary piece of evidence, admittedly rather thin, that Rhaegar was not an evil psycho, is that Ned doesn't seem to harbor any hatred of him based on what we get in Game of Thrones. If anything Ned seems to harbor mixed feelings toward his best friend Robert Baratheon on account of these events in the past. When Ned thinks of these events, it would be understandable if his focus was a hatred of Rhaegar for starting this all, but it simply isn't, Ned doesn't hate Rhaegar or even think to himself in a detached/stoic way that this was all Rhaegar's fault.

[@francescomoscato2995]

I think the story itself perfectly explains who rhaegar was. A man, and a child, struggling with the tragedy of summehall, that happened in the very day of his birth, and probably with depression. A man of talent, intelligence and skills, with the weight of prophecies and, possibly, dragon visions. A man with a terrible father, that enjoyed burning people and rape his sister, rhaegar's mom, that trusted no one, that hated rhaegar dornish wife, and that was ruining the entire realm, the same realm he was supposed to save. A great knight, but not invincible, because, as barristan says, no one is invincible. He was no a fearless and loving violence warrior, but a man who loved music. And probably, he enjoyed summerhall, because he pointed himself ad the cause of the disaster, and probably was able to feel less lonely, by going there. I dont think rhaegar was evil, like aegon the unworthy, or mad like baelor the holy, but also not as perfect as viserys and jorah think. Probably, he believed to be the prince Who was promised, because he was Born during the tragedy of summerhall, in salt and smoke, but later he understood he wasnt, so not so ego-boosted. I find him extremely fascinating and mysterious, but not because of his apparent perfection, but because i find difficult to understand him.

[@JorraneRei]

This is the most level headed and reasonable analysis on such a polarising character. Well done.

[@Eddy1938-b]

Just a suggestion if you need one, could u do a video on bittersteel and the blackfyres

[@Ipiutiminele]

I've always despised Rhaegar so I love this video, this is an excellent explanation off how bad he actually was.

[@donjR2300]

To play devils advocate here because some of this seems like reaching... The knights that compared Rhaegar to Baelor the blessed were probably making an unfavorable comparison because they wanted an heir more interested in martial pursuits. You aren’t going to compare him to a good erudite ruler if you’re trying to imply him reading so much was a bad thing. Rhaegar was not stated to have had no friends but only that Arthur Dayne was the oldest. Rhaegar was the prince of Dragonstone and had decided to aspire to be a warrior, he would definitely meet the greatest knights of the realm and many up and coming squires/warriors from houses all over Westeros (especially prestigious houses with strong martial traditions like the Daynes). He could’ve met Arthur at any point, they were mingling around the same social circles. As for Aerys not liking Rhaegar, we only get an idea he doesn’t like him by the time he’s deep en route to madness. Aerys was paranoid in his madness and would definitely be paranoid of his picture perfect heir that everyone is waiting to ascend. His insistence on children should be looked at from the lens of the head of a dying dynasty, there are almost no Targaryens left, he needs more targaryens. Post madness it probably had to do with distrust of Rhaegar. As for his character as a person. I think it’s enough to say that it’s amazing that out of everyone who knew him only Robert has anything bad to say, even Ned somehow believes him good. Almost everyone laments his death but Robert and that’s logical being as he ran off with his betrothed who Robert seemed a bit obsessed with an possessive over. Devils advocate over, good video guys.

[@Eladelia]

You're right. A lot of the content here is either reaching or a reflection of not really understanding what was going on. e.g. the point about people not making nasty points about Aemon's interest in books: Aemon was not the heir and NO ONE expected him to ever get anywhere as close to inheriting as he did (remember the chain of events was seen as so wildly improbable that the person who did inherit became known as Aegon "the Unlikely"). There are many lords in Westeros who can't read at all. Aegon the Conqueror wasn't the ruler because he was a great scholar. It makes sense that scholarly leanings are not something the knights would think is ideal in the future king. This is not deep secret knowledge. This is extremely basic as far as the realm of people involved enough in the community to be making content regularly. They should be able to do a lot better.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Ned considers him not frequenting brothels, that one thing hardly makes him 'good'?

[@codutch]

Whether he was strange or not, it sounds like you have zero sympathy for introverted personality types. People tend to remember the worse more than the best. He could have been a man of small good deeds, respectful to those around him. You can learn social skills later in life and end up more polite and well spoken than a witty and playful child who just enjoys moment to moment. I say this as someone who is purely neutral on Rhaegar.

[@Eladelia]

They appear to absolutely loathe anyone with a quieter personality. It's a little disturbing how much the video emphasizes the idea that we should all agree that anyone who's kind of quiet and introspective is a horrible person.

[@pushista9322]

It's not his introverted nature per se. We can judge by his later actions. They just lack responsibility or planning.

[@joshuamorgan8919]

Rhaeger would of been one of worst kings in history.

[@joshuamorgan8919]

Vagon would been a bad too king.

[@aysseralwan]

I really like your view of Rhaegar (and Lyanna) because it's refreshing and you always give a lot of great points. Everyone else talks what a tragic love story the two had and what a great hero/prince of legend Rhaegar is when Rhaegar really did accomplish nothing in life and at worst raped/kidnapped Lyanna and at best ran off with her while both did not care about the fallout of their decisions which killed half of Lyanna's and almost all of Rhaegar's family

[@shanenolan8252]

I assumed Arthur dayne was fostered at court it happens regularly , the redwyne twins with Robert and cercie current day , it's not that strange an official companion from a Nobel family , he showed talent and became a knight and kingsguard ? Just a thought

[@bronhaller]

Same. I assumed that he made friends with Arthur while they were squiring, and that Arthur's move to the Kingsguard was because of his friendship with Rhaegar.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@bronhaller either way smokes sense , he may have squired for a knight at a tourney or at court training for knighthood usually starts at 7 years old

[@michelmorio8026]

I like this channel, I really do... but these two always, ALWAYS bend reality as if the version they present is the only possible/plausible option! And that thousands of people immediately fall for it and from there on believe that version is the actual truth George tells makes me sad... it‘s like conspiracy theories... and like these theorists, they treat other people who don’t believe in the same stuff like inferiors and get vicious, like zealot religious people that think their version of their faith is the only possible true one When they talked about Rhaegar having no true friend until the age of 17, I immediately had the same thought... what if Arthur was already a cupbearer/page for a knight/lord at court, what if he was educated/trained at court... at lot of other noble children get educated on other foreign courts (Ned/Robert, Jaime, Ned’s brother Brandon, ...) or in service to knights/lords! What is with his other „friends“ like Jon Connington and the group of noble sons/knights that are often named to be in his „inner circle“/company... he must have met/grown up with them together as he did with Arthur, at least they are all roughly the same age

[@theblueknight9746]

Lyanna Stark vs Catelyn Stark: Battle of the Bitches. I seriously hated both those characters so fucking much.

[@JodesDaPhee]

Perfect way to end a long work day! Keep up the fantastic work, milord and lady 😁💜🌹 I've always side eyed the hell out Rhaegar. Elia and her children deserved a helluva better than what they got. I roll my eyes when people romanticise him and Lyanna. I'm always in the back like, 'Um, this dude abandoned his sickly wife and kids to his pyromanical sadistic and mad king to die for Lyanna! How in the hell in that romantic!' 🙄 I love how you guys give a more well rounded and realistic glimpse into this character. George is truly a phenomenal writer.

[@jinxedsphinx3600]

Damn I’m watching this as I’m getting ready to go to work 😪

[@JodesDaPhee]

@@jinxedsphinx3600 I'm sending you a socially distanced hug, friend! Take it easy on yourself, alright! 🌹🙏

[@michaelis2958]

The kindest people are the ones who always get the worst in ASOIAF Elia is the best example of it

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I wouldn't call this video well rounded.

[@kaminsod4077]

Really when you look at it Rhaegar is just as mad as his father. Sure he's not actively homicidal, but he operates completely detached from reality for the sake of dusty old prophecies.

[@OscyJack-]

Mad, or in tune with things not yet revealed? Those dusty old prophecies may be of ultimate importance, or none at all. Perhaps fate itself ruled rhaegar, not his own thoughts or actions? Perhaps bloodraveb, or melisandre, or some innate knowledge instilled within him from birth was his direction. Or, perhaps he was mad. I for one am very excited for the next books and future greenhand videos on the topic. I'm also a big believer in there are greater forces at play. Both from the astrological end, the cataclysmic end and potentially a deity based end. Or some culmination of the lot. One thing I find very curious, and parallel to real life is the date of 12000 years previous being the last of the white walkers. That is approximately when our last ice age ended, and also a time of cataclysmic geological shifts in our actual history. Makes me think george isn't just writing about fantasy, but fantasizing aspects of our own history.

[@bassanimation]

@@OscyJack- This is also a good point. What is it Dany says, it's not so far from madness to wisdom? Its easy for us all to think every Targ was mad, but what if the visions, prophesies etc werent wrong? If we operate under the assumption that GRRM is making every piece of fantasy in the story bunk, and that it's all metaphor, then yes it means Rhaegar is probably off his rocker. But, if any of it is true, what if Rhaegar is just one of the few who could see it? We'll see, if GRRM ever confirms any of it that is.

[@cherylbaxter8986]

@@OscyJack- well said

[@yourdad6902]

​@@OscyJack- he is mad they don't even know what their prophecies mean they interpret it however they want rhaegar being the idiot he is thought he was special and nothing bad would happen because after all he saw a prophecy saying he was important only for Robert to destroy the dumbass

[@OscyJack-]

@@yourdad6902 if that's the case then we too are also all mad, to follow what dogma's we do. Time will tell if we ever get more books

[@ivanbluecool]

Oh cool I'll see this again. Going through the story again rhegar can't be excused. Prochecy is literally a joke in the main series as Dany loses her child who was said to be the stallion to mount the world yet dies and many other things never happen yet somehow rhegar is smart. Rhegar failed prochecy 3 times and people act like he is special. That's like someone making e guesses on anything and being wrong 3 times yet people act like he was right. Whether or not Jon is his son means nothing to rhegar and lyanna getting people killed. Ned's brother and father dying. Ellia being killed as well as his son and daughter and everything else they did. Also people need this to be a tragic love stoy like Romeo and Juliet when in actuality they were idiot teens as well

[@OscyJack-]

Asoiaf has never really been about saving the masses. War and tragedy certainly aren't limited to those cauaed by rhaegar. For sure he's a bit of an asshole from the people's perspective. But prophecy and fate are far from a joke within the story. Especially from cultural and historical viewpoints. Without the unknown forces aspect within the story, it would be a much lamer read and would leave us without the burning curiosity for more. It's taken me 10 full read through's to appreciate what I do now, and I'm sure I'm still missing bits and pieces here and there. Suffice it to say, this is not a simple story and we don't yet have all the pieces to the puzzle.

[@ivanbluecool]

@@OscyJack- edmure tries to save people same as tywin in his twisted way of ending the war faster than having it lag on even if it's wrong how he did it. Plus stannis is litteraly doing that in saving the wall and not killing all the wildlings which he could have done. Tell anyone thier husband will leave them for a younger women and your kids and you die and that's ellia. She deserves better and any perspective no matter what says ellia was tragic of a character as she was kind and nealry died having kids. Look at her pov and tell me lyanna did anything good for her and I'll see. Same with Ned's family dying what situation makes that good? Perspective means nothing as rhegar didn't want to come back and thinks he would win to be beat by a real man with real battle skills while be shamed many times by him. That's the point. Rhegar is beyond an idiot and the fan base see many times prochecy doesn't work yet somehow rhegar will? It's basically double talk in "this not working but that did" when it's the same thing. Rob in a normal story would have a son and avenge Ned but here he was dumb and both never avenges Ned an never has a son as the Spicer keep the Daughter from having kids. That's why cat Lysa cersie start this whole problem with thier actions. Little finger and varys play them like fiddles and even then cersie ruins her family faster and faster as he cultist came and Jaime sees the horrible people she is surrounded by. Yeah that's the point. George is a good writer and the story you can find more about the Characters and Such each time. I used to like renly as he was nice but now I see him as a big idiot as he is copper and a flower and that's all he was. So dumb cersie and Tyrion were happy together for a moment. Congratulations renly. Yeah. Dany was told rhegar was good so that means we need to see more. On record. Rhegars can't be redeemed with the actions he lead to in the Stark's barsthekns and arryns going to war being totally justified as the mad king was a thing and even Jaime was better than barristan as Jaime is hated for killing the mad king while barristan is loved for saving him as he then goes crazy and leads to almost blowing up he city if not for Jaime.

[@OscyJack-]

@@ivanbluecool in regards to lyanna and elia, you have to be careful not to interject your own feelings based on today's real life, if you expect to see what george intends. Obviously, we all read the story differently, and that's totally cool and encouraged. But just cuz rhaegar has abandoned his wife and kids for another pursuit, doesn't make him inherently evil, or wrong. It also doesn't make him good or right. It just is. The fallout from all the characters choices are what they are. If one thing george illustrates well, is that decisions have consequences and generally speaking, people are out for themselves and theirs. With the exception of a few outliers. The only thing I'm trying to say is, we don't actually know. And it's one thing to have a feeling or opinion, and another to claim that that feeling or opinion is gospel. The white walkers and the cotf may have the ultimate right. Or the deities that rule the world. George's whole philosophy on the matter is well illustrated in their world existing on the eye of a giant. We have macro and micro causes. At face value, sure, rhaegar was an ass. Under closer inspection, all characters fit that mold. They also all have their perspective good. But the story will unfold and we will see more. Regardless, however we view each character. Every word of martins, every sentence structure, is important to how we interpret the story. And when the books are finished, we will know more

[@ivanbluecool]

@@OscyJack- leaving your wife. Who you vowed to love and honor and protect and respect for both of your entire lives is wrong in any timeline. Any story and anytime in history. I don't need my opinion for this. Even the books everyone in the tourney was angry. Brandon who wanted to attack rhegar for insulting his sisters honor. Robert and even Ned. Ned of all people was angry at this insult. Double that as rhegar did it in front of everyone and his own wife. That's wrong and even Dany his sister. HIS SISTER was trying to justify why rhegar did this by looking to blame ellia asking if she was a bad person and she wasn't as Dany couldn't believe what reason rhegar had to leave his wife and TWO KIDS. Ellia is the most nicest girl to ever exist and died fighting for the children rhegar abandoned for lyanna. Also no divorce is in the old days. Even joffery who was crazy couldn't get his marriage to Sansa removed until a maester was called in. Somehow joffery cared more about his vows than rhegar. Imagine that. Regardless of what is said. What is shown is rhegar and lyanna are not found until the king's guard go get him and even if the fever dream is true which it isn't as George said already. Rhegar doesn't come to stop anything by saying "prochecy this prochecy that" as he didn't leave until summoned and he failed as he thought he was a warrior not a flower with no loyalty as his army shattered the moment he died. White walkers are basically a metaphor for nature as nature wins at the end of the day as winter is the bringer of death as plants die and humans die if the sun Never comes. Basically just that and stannis knows that. Rhegar knew his dad was crazy. Hurting his mother. Lyanna could have done something to save her family. Even if lyanna was actually kidnapped or not I would be beside myself losing my father and brother but either way rhegar is the problem. Rhegar got more people killed than anyone so he would king of that race Robert said he didn't want the throne but was forced on it and see how apoy he is. He isn't and actually cares for lyanna who is a hypocrite. Books know people think rhegar is a good person as a majority of the community only look at that and ignore Everything else. If the twist is these was an idiot that would be fine as his actions show it even if somehow prochecy came true which it didn't as he already said his first son was the song of ice and fire before becoming aegon smashhead to a knight that rhegar knighted in the mountain Look I get it you want to be in the middle until the end of he books but you know you can lean to one side or another if you think lyanna is blameless it's still rhegars fault. His wife and two kids died for it and his thoughts lead to a full scale war that almoy blew up kkngs landing while making Ned head of he house as he didn't feel he deserved it even now as Brandon was gonna be head of winterfell. Only person who causes as much problems is little finger and he wants to make chaos. Rhegar did it by accident if he was a fool

[@jinxedsphinx3600]

Wait can someone tell me where the whole “stallion that mounts the world” prophecy came from in the first place?? I truly can’t remember. Was it just something Drogo said when he crowned Viserys?? If so how can that be taken as a legit prophecy...? Or was it the Dothraki crones? If so I’d say the same - maybe a tad more legitimacy... Idk why but I just feel like ancient prophecies hold more water than those made on the spot...

[@shanenolan8252]

Well apparently he was a good musician and song writer

[@juancarruyo9737]

For some reason watching you guys uploading videos again is giving me hope. TWOW is coming🥶

[@jonmuaddib4813]

Rhaegar was melancholic and probably suffered from a clinical depression

[@faisalkamal4319]

Or in other words Targaryen madness

[@johngo3715]

I didn't catch the previous version of this. Glad you guys are uploading again!

[@striker8961]

This doesn’t even contradict r+l=j it just shows that if its true he manipulated Lyanna as any sociopath could do

[@stannisteeth9719]

Such a great content What I love about you guys that you clearly make your own theories and don't just repeat what everyone else is saying Keep it up

[@lidu6363]

I'm so happy you are coming back with the more compact video formats! ✨💖✨

[@OscyJack-]

So pumped to see fresh green hand videos on my feed

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

And here's a re-like! One of your best character videos IMO. I did not see it this way at first, but I was indeed always conflicted

[@tulkas42o22]

I was waiting for a nice toasty moment to watch this😤. I knew what I was going into(seen it)besides 2 videos in one week......whoah! I'm on quarantine time. It takes a bit to adjust to the onslaught😜 love yous two 👍 luv any thing you guys put out

[@thisguy8106]

I didn't care that it was a re-upload.. it felt good getting that notification!!

[@mysticdragonwolf89]

It’s weird Lyanna/ Rhaegar - seen as a taboo love and true love story of the ages Lyanna/ Rhaegar - also the embodiment of the worst thing in regards to infidelity Time changes the views of people - the worst people become heroes, only the best things remembered while the worst forgotten Same can happen in the reverse

[@rebekah920]

One problem. Just because he wasn't put into the king's guard until later, doesn't mean Dain wasn't at court as a child. He could have been a friend from a young age.

[@alyssapruneau6855]

Best quote: Dexter level shit!

[@jito7377]

"Words are wind" - What if this is symmetric? Then winds are (more) words. Winds of winter = words of winter. Winter may be a person, which says important stuff or it is important that he talks. Winter is belived dead/gone/defeated as he fell in Winterfell. Is winter the great other?

[@HebrewsElevenTwentyFive]

Interesting video! Referencing that Sealord of Braavos story was profound in solidifying your point 👌🏾

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you !!

[@firetarrasque4667]

Y'all are doing some great work. Aggressively picking apart the reputation of everything you can find is a valuable buisiness.

[@0ceanque3n]

I’ve always thought why didn’t he think of viserys as one of the three heads and I’ve asked others what they think about it. I’m so happy you brought it up.

[@sleekoduck]

In page 110 of the World of Ice and Fire, it states that the War of the Ninepenny Kings took place in 258 AC and that the fire at Summerhall occurred in 259 AC. It would have been difficult for Aerys to father Rhaegar while he was fighting in Essos. If in fact Aerys fathered any of the Lannister children, they had better claims to the Iron Throne than Rhaegar. The evidence for that is also in the World Book.

[@MrMike0817]

I think you're missing a few points. His oldest friend is Arthur dayne because he is no longer friends with his childhood friends, not because he didn't have any. He may even met arthur dayne early on, especially if you think the dayne family are part of the order of the green hand.... Selmy says figuratively no one knew him because he was always putting on a charade for court, selmy was talking about rhaegars love for singing that he hid from the court

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Except barristan tells us that he was completely uninterested in playing with other children when he was younger

[@Pacbandit13]

Rhaegar, Aerys, Viserys, Cersei, Robert, Joffrey all mad. I think Rhaegar was narcissistic maybe even sociopathic.

[@lfcamfc]

Rhaegar = Dexter

[@peterglade1803]

A sociopath... YES YES APSOR FUCKING LUTELY

[@ApplesandDragons]

I think 'Rhaegar and Arthur were friends before Arthur joined the Kingsguard' makes more sense than 'Rhaegar never had a friend until his late teens.' Arthur and Rhaegar's friendship is a huge angle that I haven't taken a close look at yet. What a great lead. I wonder if the origins of their friendship is seeded in the story somewhere already. Maybe the time or nature of it. I gotta check all the times Houses Dayne and Targaryen could have met during the years of Rhaegar's childhood.

[@covkepacov]

I like the initiative of yours to examine everything in the story from different angles. Though some compelling arguments have been made, I still choose to be a part of the "he had a world to save" crowd. My perception of him is that he is one of the mysterious main characters in the story that has yet to be revealed in a true manner, but not in the way you present him here. I think of him more in a way of a Gandalf kind of character, with a mission, sent to Westeros to give people the nudge in the right direction. As there are more characters and fractions in the story that recognize a bigger threat to the humanity of Westeros than wars of their kings, I think Rhaegar was one of them. In a sense that he had a finite amount of time to do what he had to. My hope is that the bad aspects of his personality are the necessary weight of the burden. Having said that, I really think the ending is going to be a really epic and high fantasy, if there will be such a thing as ending to asoiaf. Great video nonetheless.

[@E_Cleazy]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 @ "That's some Dexter shit."

[@b0therme]

Why did people think he was perfect? Tywin Lannister knows how to make use of bards, singers, and minstrels.

[@deecawford]

Thank yall so much for doing a video that isn’t a live. Love this, Rhaegar definitely has some issues to his story

[@josephdowie976]

How have I just found this channel!? About to binge all your videos

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you !

[@praetorxyn]

It's a great surprise to see a video from you guys. As was the Stannis one. I was never the biggest Rhaegar fan in the first place, but there was definitely something "off" about him. I know George hates it and you all probably won't care, but I've been reading a fan fiction (written by an author who told me he was a fan of yours when I was going back and forth with him in the comments), where prior to the story, the history was altered such that Robert's Rebellion never happened because Aerys died (with Catelyn dying with Rickard and Brandon, and Elia and her children burning up with Aerys somehow), but since the rebellion almost happened the "rebellious" houses were punished anyway. Rhaegar married Lyanna, Ned married Ashara, and due to ridiculous taxes eventually ended up declaring Northern independence. Rhaegar tried to invade the North and got his ass kicked three separate times, until he invited Ned, Ashara, and their son to neutral ground in Starfall to make peace, whereupon he served them up a massacre at dinner Red Wedding style, with Ashara sacrificing herself to protect their son, who ended up surviving on his own in Braavos. A Red Priest and Daenerys hatched dragons, and the Targaryens are all aloof tyrants who are content with being feared rather than loved. 11 or so years later, Rhaegar sends Viserys to Braavos to broker a deal with the Iron Bank, and this kicks off a chain of events that results in the rebellion of the only son of King Eddard and Queen Ashara Stark, along with houses Tully, Baratheon (along with a legitimate son and daughter who's betrothed to the aforementioned son, as Robert was disgusted with Lyanna stepping over the bodies of her family to marry Rhaegar) , and Arryn, to depose a family of tyrants and the weapons of mass destruction they use to spread fear. It's really made me a lot more sympathetic to your hatred of Rhaegar and Lyanna.😀

[@hamzabhinder9137]

sounds interesting...whats the name of fanfic?....is it good?

[@praetorxyn]

@@hamzabhinder9137 It's a three part series called The King of Winters by King_of_Kingz on AO3 (Archive of Our Own). I tried to provide a link, but I think KZbin deleted my comment because of it, so I had to rewrite it. Part 1, From Nothing Comes a King, takes place while the son of Ned and Ashara is still in Braavos. Part 2, The Return of the King, takes place while the son returns from Braavos to the North and attempts to reclaim Winterfell from the Targaryens. Part 3, A Clash of Titans, is still ongoing, but takes place roughly during the canon timeline, with the newly crowned King in the North leading a rebellion against the Targaryens to make them pay for their crimes. I have enjoyed the series very much, and am eagerly awaiting more chapters for it. It's refreshing to find a unique story like this when the vast majority of them worship the Targaryens and are all about Jon being a Targaryen. The author also has a story called The Outlaw King, centered around Ned and Ashara, which very much seems like it should be the first part of the aforementioned series, but the author has told me it's separate because it isn't going to end in the Massacre at Starfall, so perhaps a happier version of the history of the series when it's all said and done.

[@jamomma7296]

Using the mad kings judgement against rhaegar is kind of hilarious

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Using Aerys’ opinion of his son before he began his downward spiral is hilarious? Please explain

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I mean, even before he became the mad king he wasn't the best ruler, and his interactions with tywin as hand do show he can be exceedingly petty if he feels like his authority as king is being challenged. He's probably not best viewpoint to go with

[@tylerbarrett6652]

I have to disagree... wasn't his grandmother a Dayne? and wouldn't the young Dayne's be invited to court as maidens or cupbearers? just as they were with Rhaegar's wife? He learned to play music... so he has that going for him. I think he lived his childhood hearing things like "every time a Targaryen is born, the God's flip a coin"... or hearing his father referred to as the "Mad King".... and he wasn't blind. He was a serious child looking for some hope that he would not turn out like his Dad.... and went to Summerhall so often to search for answers. Isn't that where Dunk died? wasn't there a wood's witch in the area? Perhaps he gained some awareness of the bigger fight ahead... and so he was not so interested in play. Wasn't it the song about Jenny dancing with her ghosts that so moved Lyanna? Yeah, he, like Dany, was worried as to whether he could grow to be the type of man he would have to become in order to meet the challenges ahead. Children are NOT blind, and they'll notice almost everything... including the friction between Tywin and his Dad... and his Dad's slow decline. He was searching for answers... and it is possible, with strong first men blood and targaryen roots that he knew much more than most. There's so much to say... but I'll stop here.

[@krakentacos]

This is a very interesting way of looking at Rhaegar and the events that followed. Do we have a reliable narrator for this ? How did he win the tournament ? He bested Barristan the Bold..really.. Love the new content!!!!

[@JediLadyMisty]

Aren’t most Targs crazy in some way, shape or form? Rhaegar is the product of at least double incest and if there’s a saying that the Gods flip a coin to decide whether or not a Targ is crazy the Gods just might roll dice to decide just how crazy the Targ is and to what degree. Moving on. When my oldest sister’s ex husband passed away unexpectedly our Mom feared that she would put him on a pedestal for their son and gloss over his worst qualities or sweep how he treated her under a rug. Rhaegar is dead and it seems that King Robert was more interested in wine, whores and hunting than being a good father, husband and king. Not to say that Robert was a bad king just that people focus on his negative qualities and misdeeds than his good qualities and good deeds.

[@kabdulrasheed4167]

Great video as always. I love your theory segments.

[@MichaelDouglasBell]

Great to see The Order of the Green Hand doing the shorter theory/analysis videos again! You guys are fun to listen to in your longer videos, but these are why I came to love this channel in the first place. And yes, Catelyn still sucks.

[@thisguy8106]

Oh wow.. just another Greenhand Monday!!!!! Feels good to say this again!

[@thenoob6813]

All my homies fanboy Bobby B instead of the beautiful man that left his wife and children for a unreliable prophecy

[@DM-Oz]

Hail Bobby B, the one true king

[@DjDiamstatOfficial]

Bobby bouché? The water boy? 😂 😂 😂 For real though Ned should have taken the throne

[@DM-Oz]

@@DjDiamstatOfficial Nah, he was still young and follower of the old gods, if we are choosing by who would be the best for the kingdom, Jon Arryn would have been the better ruler but Robert legitimacy helped to stabilize the kingdom.

[@faisalkamal4319]

@@DjDiamstatOfficial Ned would've died as Bobby b said he's a honorable fool

[@matttubenitup]

It’s difficult to compare him in that time with his story to nowadays standards. Rhaegar was also focused not on his own happiness, but focused on the fulfillment of his true convictions. He was so true to his convictions that people misunderstood him for trying to bring his own “selfish” ideologies to fruition. I think he was not only honorable, but a true man unto the point of admiration. Good stream though, it’s a good idea to look at all viewpoints, even the ones that are opposed to your own beliefs. Self sacrifice and selfish desire can be easily confused. He was focused on ending the true desolation (long night) that he was willing to forgo the present pain and tragedies in order to bring longer lasting peace.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Being focused excuses him for getting tens if not hundreds of thousands of people killed without seeming to care about it? He wouldn’t have even showed up to the war he started if he wasn’t dragged there

[@iamthesenate8973]

“Rhaegass”

[@alialmuhanna4938]

Two new videos in a row ? I am so happy !

[@DanaDayne7]

Oh oh! Some classic “new hole rippin” Greenhand content! I love it! Thanks Mary Ellen and Dave!

[@sadowphoenix01]

I really wish we could have gotten tywins view of rheagar

[@jasonvazquez8652]

Can someone please explain to me how it was possible that Brandon and Rober were the only two people in the entire world who were able to see right through Rhaegar for what he truly was?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Apparently they’re the only ones who judged his actions

[@vorborinov4054]

Practically nothing is known about Rhaegar, & that after so many books. One thing stands out to me though, if that was not some imposter on the Trident, then Rhaegar was a warrior to have given Robert the battle that he apparently did, leaving Robert badly wounded, needing weeks to recover. And the so called kidnapping of Lyanna, I doubt Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, we will find out later that most likely she absconded for him for reasons only the two of them knew.

[@vorborinov4054]

There's also something else to be said if we're going on scraps of information, the main kings guard, Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower & Oswell Went appear to have remained deeply loyal to Rhaegar - to the extent of not accompanying him to the Trident because he clearly ordered it. That does not ring of some odd ball character people close to him did not hold in high regard. Ned's recollection of what Arthur Dayne says to him at the Tower of Joy reflects on his loyalty to Rhaegar firstly & foremost.

[@jayritchie6596]

if it was Rhaegar vs his father? Rhaegar is clearly the better of the two alternatives.

[@archervine8064]

@@jayritchie6596yeah, I think that's the simplest answer for why Rhaegar is remembered so well. Compared to his father any even halfway decent person would come across as next to an angel.

[@josephradley3160]

If Arthur Dayne had been sent to court as a page or squire he would have met Rhaegar when they were anywhere from seven to twelve. Not only friends but distant cousins as king Maekar married a Dayne.

[@patallenhurst3043]

It seems like years that I have seen a theory video from you guys. Don't make us wait like Grrm!

[@kelman2009]

Decent hot-take but most of what you said could be explained if he's just a bookish introvert with maybe a little light depression going on. I feel attacked. Also...go visit your dead fam at the cemetery jeez, they're dead not forgotten.

[@linnchut3126]

Mad King: was he truly paranoid and trying to stop the magic from getting him and Westeros. Like, for example, when they raise taxes at the ports, he's trying to stop the sorcery from Essos entering Westeros I think. And the Mad King was put in situations that made him "crazy." Selmy, Pycell, Tywin were some of those behind it. Given the fact that Pycell has written the history of Aerys II, he has NO reason to write ANYTHING redeeming; in fact, he has EVERY reason to write a terrible history, to keep the favor of the Lannisters, especially Tywin. Yes, we have eyewitness accounts that he burned people, I don't take that away from him, but how many people did Daenerys burn and we still kept confidence? How many people did ANY Targaryans burn and we still kept confidence? Why single out Aerys II? Because it was Starks that we favored and Starks that he burned...? Because he kept caches of Wildfire...so did Cersai and then Tyrion. Maybe Aerys II, unlike Cersai and Tyrion, was actually preparing for the Long Night instead of making fun of it. Speaking of magic, looking at my History and maps, I also think Nymeria was good, of "clean" magic, but succumbed to sorcery in or else en route to Dorn. If you look at the maps, Dorne almost looks like Old VALYRIA. So does the former Arm...like they'll look like Asshai soon, mayhaps even Utheros some day. I think "bad" magic caused it. Also, I think the pictures in the History are telling. Look at the two pictures of Nymeria. She changed by the time she made it to the throne. My thoughts! (and look CLOSELY at the pictures of the kings in the History...)

[@pelagiuslobo5474]

Most of the Rhaegar adoring is coping about Robert being that bad of a king.

[@andrewward5891]

And that his father was an even worse King. Rhaegar looks good in comparison.

[@XXcaesar5000]

It's a shame the masses lack the ability to truly see. great stuff as always I have gathered the text needed for the next live Q&A and after going over it again it makes me laugh every time I see some touting the revelation of Danys eggs.

[@GeekBen]

This is a great video. I usually don't agree with you guys, but this is spot on. Good job.