Sequels That Changed the Game - Game Sack

Episode 119 - Sometimes sequels just aren't content with being plain sequels. Instead they almost try to be a different game entirely!
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[@GameSack]

You guys are all awesome! Many of you have suggested games that make me think "Wow, why didn't I think of that one?" I love how you guys always come up with great examples on any given subject regardless of how weird or "out there" it is. It really helps the show and we definitely look to the comments down the road for ideas. So even if we don't respond personally, please know that we do read and appreciate your comments. Thanks again! :)

[@dukejaywalker5858]

This was a great idea for a show topic! Do you guys ever play retro-style indie games? I'd love some recommendations. I bought Volgarr the Viking, and it was damn fun. People who supported the kickstarter could even get a Genesis-style box with and old-school manual!

[@RocKnight11]

I know it is cliché to bring this up but lot of the Zelda games are different from one another both in style and gameplay. In some games you go from sailing boats to riding horses, turning into a wolf, conducting a train, and morphing into monsters. You can even, ugh, bring up the CD-I games. Heck, I guess you can do a whole episode on Zelda games... I'd watch that.

[@captainkarnage9874]

You guys missed a huge opportunity leaving out persona 4 and it's sequel. You go from a turn based rpg to a fighting game

[@zZiL341yRj736]

Man I don't even want to watch this episode, then I'd wait two long ass week to get another one.

[@SirIzzyBlack]

If no one else has mentioned this, there was a pretty big difference between the first Dynasty Warriors game and all of the many sequels that followed.

[@ProtoMario]

Zelda 2, Metroid Prime, Halo ODST and Halo Wars, Sonic Adventure, Pokemon Hey You Pikachu, Kirby Tilt for sure.

[@GenBloodLust]

"Burst into flame with bazookassssss." best line ever Final Zone 2 i must have this

[@GameSack]

Yes that's gotta be my favorite lyric as well!

[@MrJechgo]

Great episode boys ^_^ Here's a few more for another video: - The Legend of Zelda -> The Legend of Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link - Fighting Streets -> Street Fighter 2 -> Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight - Metroid -> Metroid Prime -> Metroid: Other M - Donkey Kong Country -> Donkey Kong 64 - Banjo-Kazooie / Banjo-Tooie -> Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts On another topic... how about covering the Capcom crossover fighting games? - X-Men vs Street Fighter (based from X-Men: Children of the Atom) - Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter (based from Marvel Super Heroes) - Marvel vs Capcom 1, 2 and 3 - Tatsunoko vs Capcom - Capcom vs SNK 1 and 2 - SNK vs Capcom Chaos - Street Fighter x Tekken - SNK vs Capcom: Match of the Millenium

[@Automatik234]

About Donkey Kong: Donkey Kong 1/2 --> Donkey Kong 3 --> Donkey Kong Country --> Donkey Kong 64

[@mikkolovesgaming1723]

Street Fighter 2010 isn't actually a street fighter game at all though, it was just re-branded when localized in the US.

[@CassidyShadewing]

MikkoLovesGaming Still counts as a Sequel, just as much as Mario 2, imo.

[@mikkolovesgaming1723]

Jeri Chase Yeah, they're both questionable, though at least Mario 2 was reskinned, not just named differently.

[@CassidyShadewing]

True, but it's not the first time that we get renamed games here in America; sometimes you got to appeal to what is popular. But maybe that's a topic onto itself something like 'sequels in name only'.

[@rexthesheep]

I'm just a sucker for early CD games like those on the Turbografx. That music, that art, that delightfully terrible voice acting! So good.

[@projectikaruga]

Guys, you are the best gaming duo on internet. All videos are pure gold, specially the hardware ones.

[@bborgelt]

Love all your episodes. Through your show I was taken back and relived my childhood with the Sega Master System and NES. Your shows also got me into collecting and which has allowed me to share my memories and experiences with my children who now play the systems more often than I do. Thank you!

[@tetrisdave]

That's a great story. Thanks for sharing.

[@n0isyturtle]

Ahh, Symphony of the Night, one of the few games I've spent over 500hrs playing. So many good times after school.

[@ingwersengrady]

"joe and I sound like stars compared to these people" ha. hah.

[@theficus]

Final Zone II.. that music, that voice acting. Totally epic.

[@manuellujan666]

I can't express how much I love this show!

[@tetrisdave]

Thank you.

[@UncleVictor]

Didn't even have to watch it yet to give it a thumbs up.

[@MotionRideVideos]

That was a mistake! You see, unlike in every other video, at the end of this one they tell all of their subscribers that we suck, that this was the last episode and from now on they will review kitchen appliances and then they burn their entire collections laughing maniacally! (just joking) :D

[@Stone8age]

Indeed, they proved to be a Grade-A show with somewhat consistent quality starting from episode 20. Earlier ones are good(or at least OK) but on their own way.

[@scoldrozy4576]

Stone8age I love your back handed compliment. Ha.

[@PhilShary]

14:14 Just look at his face! The Adventure Island guy looks exactly like Dave while crouching!

[@DharmaDaniel]

Gamesack, I stayed awake this night specifically knowing that you would upload a video. It is to you that I owe a night of exhausted drinking and chain smoking, fighting slumber. Thank you so much! It's totally worth it because each gamesack is the equivalent of being a child waiting for the moment when I can pour a bowl of sugary cereal and enjoy early morning cartoons.

[@RainePhoenix]

I always preferred super Mario Bros. 2 to the original. It wasn't very weird to me, how different it was. There was no standard yet. Originally, Mario was a villain, then he worked in the sewers, killing turtles and crabs, before stomping goombas. It wasn't a stretch for me to get used to the change. The games that required more adjusting for me were Zelda 2 (another great game), Contra Force/Arc Hound (a guilty pleasure of mine, that, with some fine tuning, could have been pretty good), CastleVania 2 of course, TMNT 2 the Arcade Game (not because it was different from the original, but because I adored the arcade game and had trouble maintaining my enthusiasm for the NES version), Rainbow Islands (billed as "the Story of Bubble Bobble 2") & Bubble Bobble 2 (I missed the 2 player co-op and wasn't used to end bosses), Batman: Return of the Joker, Parasite Eve 2 (which became a Resident Evil clone complete with tank controls, claustrophobic set pieces, mindless backtracking and serviceable ambient music that wasn't anywhere near as energetic and moving as the original), and any number of games whose sequels made the leap to 3D, namely the CastleVania games on N64 (which weren't direct sequels, but worth mentioning). I loved this episode and always like the discussions/debates that arise from such a topic. It seems that's what this channel does the best and it's just great! Keep it up!

[@mayormccheese2641]

"Compared to these guys, Joe and I sound like stars!" That's because you are in my book. Keep up the videos, GameSack! ^_^

[@scoldrozy4576]

Holy crap, I really want to play Final Zone II now!!

[@ozzriffic]

Fun as usual! Watching your videos always makes me wish I had a friend with a collection like you guys. I like how casual you guys are. You never go out of the way to show that both of you have a lot of games that most of us couldn't even afford. Thanks for all the cool info!

[@tetrisdave]

Thanks You!

[@mmmsome]

Loved this episode. Dave I had the exact same revelatory moment with Birdo; I remember me, my brother and my dad playing SMB2 at Christmas and for DAYS we couldn't figure out how to beat him. Finally my dad figured it out after landing on the egg by accident... I still remember the excitement. I guess the only game for me that springs to mind is Zelda 2... which I loved at the time as the franchise was still so fresh and exciting. On the subject of Toejam and Earl, how about an episode featuring co-op games? Some of my favourite experiences have been playing co-op... Double Dragon 2, Contra 3, Chip n Dale, World of Illusion... I would love to see what happens when you two co-op on something...

[@tetrisdave]

Good story, thanks!

[@wrena79]

Birthday today and the perfect present...a new episode of Gamesack! Love your show guys!!

[@samhain81]

I have never laughed so much in my life. That Alex Kidd death noise. I love how you you decided to kill him one last time before the cut away, made me spill my coffee. Thanks

[@bland9876]

I love the voice acting in Super Mario Brothers 2 "oh a cristle" lol

[@Boonehams]

Suggestions for a future episode: Zelda II, Metroid Prime, Duke Nukem 3D, Splatterhouse 3, Contra Force, and... hmm. I'm drawing a blank right now.

[@CassidyShadewing]

Oh my, I'd forgotten about Duke Nuke'm. The original game, that almost no one knows about, is much more PG rated then all the sequels.

[@JamesGallagher6]

You guys finally talked about Zillion II and didn't even mention the music from the first stage. That song and the Quartet intro song give be the fondest memories of my childhood.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

I love how you guys always upload at like 1 a.m. Perfect thing to watch just before going to bed. I'm gonna be dreaming about video games :)

[@johnmarcolini5506]

WOW the Final Zone 2 segment made me LOL....THAT MUSIC!!! This brought back so many memories! Thanks for giving the TG-16 love, since it was ''my'' system, when all my friends had Nintendo and Sega systems.

[@DavetheNESGuy]

Dave. You don't need hair. You don't need anything. You rock just the way you are. Beside, Dave means beloved by all, and indeed, you are loved by all. Great episode guys, especially with such a tough topic. Cheers.

[@tetrisdave]

Thank You very much.....Dave.

[@BarendCombrink]

The games that stand out for me are Dino Crisis 1 and 2. Number 1 is a puzzle filled survival horror game that I loved. I was so glad when I heard a sequel was coming out. I was really disappointed at first when I played the sequel, because it was totally different. No more puzzles and instead of a survival horror the game was turned into an action shooter. Luckily I grew to love it for what it was.

[@thaddeusmcgrath]

This episode made me think about the sequel to Bud Light, Bud Light Platinum. Sure it has slightly sweeter, higher alcohol version of Bud Light, but has a translucent blue glass bottle & 137 Calories per 12 ounce serving, 8 fewer than a regular Budweiser. What a great sequel, thanks for making me figure this out to share with my buddies!

[@tetrisdave]

I might have to review that next episode.

[@conradojavier]

***** Speaking of Dynasty Warriors, They change the Gameplay style in 6, But Revert back in 7 with Dual Weapons.

[@G2097]

'I thought I was lucky... but you must have nine lives!' Best voice acting ever.

[@BladeBlur]

A great example I really wish you covered: KEIO FLYING SQUADRON Seriously, going from a Cute-m-Up to a Platformer was a huge stretch, and sure the 2nd game has sidescrolling shooter moments, but the majority of it is a platformer.

[@butterman0007]

I like that you guys don't make it feel like a review of your opinion. Even tho it might kinda be in someways. It makes it feel like an official diagnosis of each game.

[@mylifeingaming]

Zillion 2 was a huge let down for me. I loved the first so much.

[@jasonlashmun2793]

I actually prefer tri-formation to Zillion1 , After a while I get Really Bored of the password barrage with no boss battles and too much of the Same Thing over and over again, but it's easily worth it for the Amazing soundtrack 😎😃👍 it's super awesome

[@TooBokoo]

Hilarious! Twenty minutes ago I was just wishing there was a new episode. I was watching previous episodes for something to watch while I installed a new graphics card and all of a sudden we get a new episode!

[@SaturnMemories]

A couple Saturn ones... Keio Flying Squadron and Keio Flying Squadron 2. One's a shooter and the other is a platformer with a couple short shooting segments mixed in. Tempo and Super Tempo are both platformers but play radically different from one another. Panzer Dragoon Saga ended up being the only RPG in the PD series.

[@GenesisGameGenie]

Great episode, Game Sack. I don't know if you are going to dig though all these comments to find mine, but I have a fitting game that I want to share. There is a PC game from the late 90s by sierra that I used to play all the time when I was a kid. It was called outpost 2. I really love it, but it wasn't until a few years after that I played the original outpost. I had no idea how different it was. Outpost 2 is played as a real time strategy game with combat elements. Outpost 1 is a more realistic space colony sim. It's turned based and hard as all hell. Don't pick the wrong planet to colonize, you can't screw up at any point or you will lose. "Any mistake at this point will doom you and your colonists to certain death. Have a nice day." "Alert, alert. Your colony has become a ghost town. No one is left alive. Except for you." It still gives me the creeps hearing that in-game computer voice. It's a fun game to a point, but I never made it past 50 turns. Sort of a long comment, but I wanted to share my feelings on a game that most people haven't ever heard of. I would love to see an outpost 3 in the style of the second game.

[@Riz2336]

I think symphony of the night is one of the best Castlevania games.

[@Miraak22]

Riz2336 i think you have a typo, it is THE best

[@xxttrraa]

THE BEST

[@endersblade]

I think Symphony of the Night is one of the best games.

[@thesteeez]

You guys just keep getting better and better. Thank you for creating this show for all us to enjoy. Cheers!

[@tetrisdave]

Thanks!

[@holnrew]

I can't believe you don't have more than 100,000 subs yet. This is my favourite gaming channel for sure.

[@thurlbailey7590]

You guys don't upload much, but when you do, you never dissapoint.

[@MetalJesusRocks]

The hair....could be LONGER :)

[@coreymahaney]

If you guys did a supercut of all the skits you do at the end of episodes, that would be awesome. Probably a lot of work but I would definitely watch that and I'm sure other fans would too! Great show!

[@PhilShary]

Joe, will you ever review Sega SG-1000 or SG 1000 II?

[@alanhendricks8664]

This episode reminds of The Syndicate Series where it was originally an isometric view commanding game back in the 90's then a FPS in 2012. Details can be found Wikipedia about this change of genre.

[@dukejaywalker5858]

A lot of people are probably making comments about Zelda II. I know it gets a lot of grief for being different, but I actually played Zelda II before the original. Without that preconception I was able to approach it with an open mind, and it remains one of my all time favorites. I got the first game after completing the sequel, and I loved that too... although in a different way.

[@velocity73R]

Agreed it gets a bad wrap, but I played it first too & loved it.

[@TheULTIMATE450]

velocity73R "it gets a bad wrap" What the fuck does that mean? Do you mean "rep"? But yeah, both Zelda NES games are great. Why didn't they make mention of them?

[@sledathon]

No he means bad rap it's slang for bad reputation. Look it up dickcheese

[@TheULTIMATE450]

sledathon Bad rep is slang, bad rap makes no sense, and even if it did, it wouldn't be "bad wrap". Also, dickcheese is the most juvenile thing I've ever heard. Go fuck yourself.

[@SephirothTNH]

TheULTIMATE450 It is most definitely "bad rap" not "bad rep." Though it is not slang for bad reputation. It's related to the word "rap sheet" a list of past criminal offenses. Everyone confused about this saying should look it up before they get a bad rap :)

[@brentjamesonparker]

So glad to see Zillion get some coverage! Rarely anyone talks about that game and it's definitely my favorite SMS game. I usually play through it about once a year. The gunfire and explosion sound effects are forever ingrained into my memory.

[@AlphaOmegaSin]

I gotta say I dig Dave's new CG hair, that shit there is top notch \m/ I'll see if i can toss out a few perhaps D on Saturn / PS1 to D2 Dreamcast Guilty Gear PS1 to Guilty Gear 2 Overture XBOX360 Time Crisis 1-3 PS1/2 to Time Crisis 4 PS3 Banjo & Kazooie N64 to Banjo and Kazooie Nuts & Bolts XBOX360 Dino Crisis 1 PS1 to Dino Crisis 2 PS1 Super Ghouls n Ghosts SNES to Maximo PS2 DOOM to DOOM 3 XBOX/PS3 Duke Nukem 3D to Duke Nukem Time to Kill PS1 Fallout 2 PC to Fallout 3 PC/PS3/XBOX360 TMNT NES to TMNT 2 The Arcade Game NES Donkey Kong 1-3 NES/Arcade to Donkey Kong Country SNES Super Metroid SNES to Metroid Prime Gamecube Ninja Gaiden 1-3 NES to Ninja Gaiden Black XBOX

[@GammaCruxis]

Godzilla to Godzilla 2 on the NES too.

[@tetrisdave]

Thanks Alpha! I am one hot mofo now.

[@kylem1112]

David White looks like you're about to surf some killer waves brah

[@SonicTheFrenchHorn]

Maximo is not a sequel to Super Ghouls and Ghosts.

[@Anex952]

GammaCruxis last time I saw godzilla 2 on ebay it was $100 fuck getting that shit!!!

[@evanpeters87]

Cool episode guys, the only one I can think of right now is Zelda and Zelda II on NES

[@jonwvsu]

Yea, how is nobody else mentioning that? I remember when I beat 1 for the first time. I popped in 2, played for like 30 seconds. Then I moved on to Spiritual Warfare.

[@Cytotron]

I was expecting those games on this list.

[@thewhipwhoppinking]

Maybe they didn't want to mention it because it's basically the same thing that happened to Ys?

[@jonwvsu]

True, but they did mention Mario 1 vs. 2.

[@firch7123]

yeah, and they also forget Super Mario World 1 and 2

[@markhorsburgh]

The one game that came to my mind was wolf fang. Hugely different from the first game which was vapour trail. It is a good game but you have to wonder why they then went back to a standard vertical shooter when they released skull fang. I was surprised to not see it in your mech episode. Great episode tho guys and surely there can't be many topics left to cover

[@willmistretta]

Fight to the death Watching them fall Burst into flames With bazookas

[@davidsantiagoalonso]

Really guys... you are getting 'freaking good' at this now. There is nothing on youtube now that is as good as you for retro gaming info in general. I sub to a few good channels for their quirky manners or presentation, but you have matured really well in all aspects. This is your best by far... I know this sounds bad for fans, but since your 2 week output - you have gotten twice as good. Kudos all over...

[@tetrisdave]

Thank You very much!

[@Midori_Hoshi]

Only 100k subs? You deserve way more.

[@NeoTurboManiac78]

Nice Neo Geo shirt Joe. Speaking of the Neo Geo. Shock Troopers and Shock Troopers 2nd Squad felt like two different games. Big thumbs up for showing Ys I & II, Ys III and Ys IV.

[@hairymannnn]

Here's what I could think of Game Sack, I hope this helps you guys some. This was a difficult topic to think of games for, but I did try my best. NES: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles > Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: The Arcade Game (completely different genre, thankfully better) Tetris > Tetris 2 (gameplay style change, not that good as you once established) Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! > Mike Tyson's Intergalactic Punch-Out (a terrible gameplay change) GB/GBC/GBA: Sonic Advance 2 > Sonic Advance 3 (gameplay mechanics changes having a stage-like hubworld) Kirby's Dream Land > Kirby's Dream Land 2 (adding the mechanics of rider animal friends) Gamecube: Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron II > Star Wars Rebel Strike: Rogue Squadron III (gameplay style changes, not really for the best IMO) PS2: Onimusha 2 & 3 > Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams (gameplay changes)

[@tetrisdave]

Thanks for spending the time to think of games that qualify for this episode. They will be noted.

[@matthewkeys4503]

are you serious dude kirby dream land 2 is not much different than 1 lol

[@hairymannnn]

yeah it kinda is, in Kirby's Dream Land 1 you couldn't absorb powers and you couldn't ride on animals.

[@matthewkeys4503]

it added new feature that's all.. mario 2 zelda 2 and symphony of the night are completely different gameplay. in kirby 1 you can float and suck and shoot just like in kirby 2 but in mario 2 you don't jump on enemies to kill them you have to pick them up and throw them

[@baigandinel7956]

***** Honestly SotN never felt ALL that different. If you are the kind of person who thinks collecting things is the purpose of the game, then maybe it seemed like completely new gameplay. To me, I say the gameplay remained basically similar. Simon's Quest had also featured collecting numerous weapons, items to enter new areas, puzzles, currency, and leveling up. The fact that SotN happened to be a sequel to RoB, was almost immaterial.

[@googleboughtmee]

Glad you did Toejam & Earl, that's the first one that popped into my head from reading the title. I remember the magazines showing screenshots and saying it looks like it's going to be a platform game, and I just wouldn't believe it, thinking maybe they meant it has some platforming levels and then it goes back to normal... but nope :(

[@TimetravelerKi]

Every game that made a transition from 2d to 3d was pretty much different.

[@CassidyShadewing]

If it were me, I'd be hesitant to list some of those though, since it was a transitional era and they needed to try new things with the new technology. I'd just be easier to note that '3D gaming changed up how a lot of games played' and list some examples; though that'd probably be more of a show onto it's self.

[@mikkolovesgaming1723]

But that goes for almost the entire gaming landscape, so the transition's a bit too universal to cover on here, I'd think, but might be worth a look in a video of it's own maybe. :)

[@CassidyShadewing]

Which is more or less what I'd said. :p A show/Video more devoted to that, while maybe a mention in a sequel to this of 2D to 3D changed sequels a lot such as Mario 64 or Sonic Adventure but how that's another topic.

[@mikkolovesgaming1723]

Jeri Chase Yeah, your comment wasn't showing up when I left mine. lol But we agree, there should be a few particularly interesting examples.

[@TimetravelerKi]

Ok, I completely agree.

[@therandomprogram]

Fantastic episode, gentlemen! I really loved the look at the ToeJam and Earl games. Those games are basically my childhood.

[@marbles8641]

Here's a few I could think of off the top of my head Zelda to Zelda 2 - Side scroller with more RPG elements and an over world map Turtles to Turtles 2 - complete redesign of the game, based off the arcade game and by far the superior game Resident Evil 3 to Resident Evil 4: Completely changed layout, control and game style (PC) Command and Conquer 3 to Command Conquer 4: So many changes, complete rehaul and design of the game play for the worse. Final Fantasy is a treasure trove of sequel changes 1 to 2 (Japan) - Completely redesigned leveling, item and talking system. Now everything you do levels and what you use determines your stats, to use axes you have to use axes, to use fire you have to use fire, to raise hp you have to take damage, to raise def you have to take damage, and finally all conversations had hot words which you had to implement a special word system. 10 - Another major change to the series, while everything feels familiar the leveling up is now done on a large game board where you select skills 11 - MMO 12 - Single player with MMO like presentation and a weird permissions grid on what items you can use 13 - Linear corridor forcused more on narrative then gameplay. Combat and everything has been simplified to a t.

[@00po]

you guys and the happy console gamer channel are my favorite youtube channels. keep up the good work! i'm looking foward to your next collab.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

TMNT -> TMNT2 Batman NES -> Batman Returns SNES I'm pretty sure there's at least one Mystical Ninja game that is different from the others too. Though I'm not sure if it had a US release.

[@ElbowDropMO]

Legend of the Mystical Ninja was the only SNES one released here if I remember correctly, whereas Japan has 3 games in that series on the SNES. Though if you're talking about the N64 games, yeah. Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon was a 3D action game (that IMO did a damn good job especially considering Ocarina of Time wasn't out to draw any inspiration from). But they went back to the classic 2D style with Goemon's Great Adventure, which is actually a damn hard game. Anyone who is decent at 3D Zelda games and can remember foreign names of people and places (I had trouble with that) can charge right through it with only a few real trouble spots. Goemon's Great Adventure is BRUTALLY difficult though; 3-hit deaths (unless you pick up armor, which you lose if you fall down a pit, which is entirely possible due to the...), precision-demanding jumps, needing to get gate passes to open new levels (which require replaying levels under certain conditions), day/night cycle (at night enemies becomes tougher...and the game is hard enough during the day). I had to stop SO many times just because I got stuck, and 4 years since picking it up, I still haven't beaten it or (unless there's way less levels than I thought) am even close to.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

Well, TMNT2 isn't REALLY a sequel, but things are run a bit loose here.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

I count those as a special case since it was Warner Bros. that had the games commissioned and had the final say in what the games would be like.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

And I guess I should point out that TMNT II The Arcade Game was not originally marketed as a sequel. The Japanese version was just titled "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and TMNT 3's original title over there was TMNT 2.

[@todesziege]

There were several Batman and Batman Returns games, the SNES game isn't meant as a sequel to the NES version. The Mega Drive version of Returns though is pretty much built as a follow-up to Sunsofts previous Batman games for NES and Mega Drive though, despite being by a different developer. "TMNT 2" wasn't a sequel, only the home port was titled as such, it was released in the arcades around the same time as the first NES game.

[@0xxDenilsonx]

Best after credits scene ever. Another action packed episode chaps well done.

[@TheBatrahian]

Dave love the new haircut, very emo

[@WendeXTX]

The version of Alex Kidd in Miracle World built in to the Master System II has the buttons switched around to be more Mario like. Also, for some reason the onigiri at the end of the levels became burgers. Zillion II is hard! The game is only called "Tri-Formation" in Japan. It has license and imagery from the tv series, but doesn't feature the name "Zillion"anywhere on the box. The series and the license were pretty much forgotten about when the series ended.

[@frankschneider6156]

Guys, you are making your life much too difficult for yourselves. I appreciate that you try to come up with a different view on things every episode and pour lots of heartblood into it, but in principle the premesis of your show is: two likeable guys reviewing subjectively (mostly 16-Bit) retro games. And it seems like many people dig into this (as you are doing a really, really good job). So my suggestion would be: stop trying to find weird topics and than selecting games that fit into this category, but rather: select the games you'd like to review (for whatever reason) and than find a topic if you feel this to be absolutely necessary. I feel you don't have to come up with a common topic, but If you really, absolutely feel you hage to, you might group games within an episode by console (e.g. Sega Genesis - Part XII) or year (Games of 1986) or quality (good, mediocre, bad, horrible, fun, outstanding graphics, earbleeding sound). So focus on the games and don't limit yourselves by the topic. And if you review a game for a second or third time .. who cares, as long as there is some overall variety in each episode. BTW, for my personal taste you focus a little bit too much on Genesis and SNES and some more deviation would be appreciated (especially e.g. PC Engine, Saturn, SMS or GBA), but in the end, this is your channel, and Genesis and SNES are certainly good systems, although there are a lot more.

[@tetrisdave]

Thanks for the constructive criticism. These are all things that we think about.

[@Khime84]

I really hope you guys are still coming out with a Sega CD episode! I've been waiting for that since you mentioned it at the panel. Thanks for the new episode guys!

[@bartkomedy]

I am appalled that you didn't say Zelda and Zelda II. For games that were different, there's Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3. While the basic premise is still there, they changed so much stuff.

[@denierlexiese]

agreed on metal gear solid 3. Throughout the first 6 hours I kept wondering if this really was a metal gear solid game. Had to put it down after that.

[@bartkomedy]

denierlexiese I agree but don't agree. I enjoyed MGS3 quite a bit and it was kinda hard to out down. But to me I prefer 2. Its all preference though, I know people who love 3 and hate 2.

[@zZiL341yRj736]

Every one knows about Zelda 1 & 2, what the hell is the point watching a new episode if they gonna talk about the same shit over and over. They covered Zelda already, even for most these games for that matter.

[@bartkomedy]

***** So? Everyone knows about Castlevania 2 but they still said it.

[@melvintaylor1918]

Actraiser was the series that jarred me the most between direct sequels. The first was brilliant. It looked, sounded and played so great. I dropped so many hours into it. Along comes part 2, I score it, and boy was it different. It didn't play as well and so much was cut from the first in regards to depth. A real bummer. And btw Gamesack, you guys seriously need a Sega CD episode. ASAP!!

[@gespenstmk-iii111]

"Kushiro-san" Weeaboo

[@GameSack]

I gave him hell for that when we recorded his VO. "Did you actually write that?" OK I guess that's not hell.

[@smuckola]

Game Sack That's what you get for using bad words.

[@Antiprogressivepraxis]

The entirety of Zillion is up on Bitchute, free to stream right now. It's a pretty good anime.

[@Danbotology]

May I suggest a 'GTA clone' episode?

[@briteboy6131]

you guys are my favorite hookup for weird shit in old games, like the naked dudes in Alex Kidd 2, and the amazing music from Final Zone 2. also that CG hair is "Two T's" Hott

[@TheGameChasers]

unsubbed because well, I dont know, Ill think of a reason

[@tetrisdave]

The only time that I will be offended for you unsubbing is when we reach 100K and then you back out.

[@AltimaNEO]

Toe Jam 2 was my jam. The game is great once you get into it. The sound and music is great.

[@TTstudioFilms]

I cannot believe you missed Zelda. So obvious. Maybe too obvious?

[@GameSack]

It was suggested but Dave chose Mario land on GameBoy instead.

[@TTstudioFilms]

I'm glad he did. That games rocks. Makes me want to play it again.

[@munsi0121]

And mario 2

[@chapsy1983]

Every time I see you guys mention the Ys series I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. My favorite series, hands down. Kinda wish you would have touched on the voice acting in Ys III though, that stuff is legendary for all its own reasons ;)

[@johnandbrianversus5082]

Dave would you let Wario give you a massage ?

[@tetrisdave]

Maybe. He smells like garlic though.

[@mediaglitch]

Wow I haven't thought about Final Zone in years. I loved that game. Amazing episode as always.

[@316whatupz]

I got a good one that fits with this episode. Street Fighter I for the arcade to Street Fighter II for the arcade. Huge changes between the two....and for the better.

[@megamarsonic]

I don't know. Both are still 1 on 1 2d fighters with special attacks. The only big differences are better controls, a combo system and more characters to play as. That seems more like an improvement than a complete 180. A better comparison would be the first Street Fighter and either Final Fight (originally titled Street Fighter '89) or Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight.

[@316whatupz]

megamarsonic You could be right....but was SF 2010 not even part of the SF series?

[@megamarsonic]

***** Sort of. It was developed by Capcom and was marketed as a spin-off rather than a true sequel. From what I remember, though, Final Fight was meant to be an actual sequel to the first Street Fighter. I like Final Fight, but I'm glad they didn't stick with that Street Fighter '89 name.

[@316whatupz]

megamarsonic If it is a spin-off, I don't think it will fit well with this episode. Not sure about Final Fight either as I don't think much resembles the SF franchise (more like a last minute title change). I think a better example would of been the Marvel vs Capcom series (though personally I prefer the first one than the other two released). Still not fond of Capcom making 2 different editions of MVC 3 though...

[@ARCWuLF]

Great list as always! Super Mario 2 was my first Mario game, and still remains one of my favorites. It has an eerie sense of openness and exploration that most games in the series just don't have (because it wasn't originally related). When I like to play, I like to use the characters evenly throughout, so at the end when they're standing on the pedestal the "Contributor" text has to acknowledge all four characters. There are certain worlds that benefit from specific characters, though. I can't imagine playing world 6-2 with anyone BUT Princess Toadstool (NOT "Peach" in the games at this point), and world 1-2 works really well with Toad because if you know what to do you can rack up a lot of coins for the bonus stage thanks to his super-fast picking power!

[@Jordan83709]

Legend of Zelda, and Adventures of Link. There's a good one for you. That's really the only one I can think of. Thanks guys.

[@hard4games]

Zelda to Zelda II was a pretty big departure. I always chalked up the differences between the first and second entries in the 8-bit era to franchises still discovering their identity and trying to figure out what actually worked and what didn't.

[@cgraham6]

Soul Reaver was the successor to Blood Omen (both on the Playstation) and they were drastically different games. Soul Reaver didn't start out as a game in the Legacy of Kain series, but was adapted to it after a sequel was decided on.

[@teen_laqueefa]

Was it an inuyasha game?

[@cgraham6]

@@teen_laqueefa No. Neither had anything to do with the anime.

[@SDinVeRT]

i remember one sequel that changed game a lot. Overblood - was survival horror with 3D environment, but Overblood 2 was cyberpunk JRPG with pre rendered backgrounds.

[@Sirynx77]

That ending was ridiculous. Yes!!! I remember the first time I heard the award winning soundtrack and voice over of "Final Zone II" when my friend showed to me. I know you were only covering sequels that are different from the original game. But you should have shown that awesome US "Final Zone II" cover artwork against its Japanese counterpart.

[@KaskelotenZebbe]

Great episode! That Final Zone II music was awesome, and the voiceacting too :). Games with very unsimilar sequels would be for example Thunder Force series, which used the second entry to phase out the overhead stages. Maybe Shining in the Darkness and Shining Force? Shadow of the Beast series has three quite different games in its series. The SaGa series have games which all are very unique from one another.

[@bluesteel8376]

Wonderboy in Monsterland is a great example of this. It is so much different than the original game. The changes of course were huge improvement and the rest of the games in the series built on Monsterland.

[@GameSack]

I agree. I actually recorded those two games and wrote a script up for this episode. I took it out because I had covered Wonder Boy 2 a little too recently.

[@xtremekirby07]

Great episode! I may apport an example for this episode's theme as well, Parasite Eve and Parasite Eve 2. While both play mostly as action RPGs, the first one was more focused on strategy as you had to wait for a time bar to fill up much like Final Fantasy games to decide which commands you were going to execute while avoiding enemy attacks, you navigate in both map and battles by using the directional pad normally, and the overworld screens were all in static camera, battling and leveling was made following normal standards of RPGs too. Parasite Eve 2 plays more like a survival horror a la Resident Evil, focusing more on action and suspense as you use the analog stick to decide in which direction you wanted Aya to face, the up directional to go forward and the down directional to go backwards, that applied in battle too (and It was quite annoying in closed places) and you had to aim to enemies individually, luckily camera isn't static anymore so you can use an entire area as the battlefield allowing you for a bit more of strategy here. You don't level up but use Exp points to unlock skills and raise Aya's status for the quantity you want if you can afford It, there are also Bonus Points that serves as money for the shops that are a new adition to the sequel as well. Also, except for Aya, the rest of the supporting cast was totally changed from that of the first game, needless to say, graphics were improved a lot as It should be. I dunno to say which one I like the most, I think both are okay as both have an unique charm for me, what do you think guys?

[@Vectrex4Life]

That's OK, I didn't need that extra half an hour of sleep...

[@jeffhannan5187]

There were a few beat 'em ups that got turned into 1-on-1 fighting games for a sequel. Double Dragon V, TMNT Tournament Fighters, Golden Axe: The Duel, Final Fight Revenge, etc. I guess these games wouldn't be very fun to talk about though.

[@JJKoester]

So glad that you turned your frown upside down.

[@AzureSymbiote]

Great episode. Here are more sequels that changed the game: - Resident Evil 4 - Street Fighter II - Lords of Shadow 2

[@hairyvic1]

Great show!! Actually, there are a fair few examples of sequels that shifted focus with entries here are just a few that I can think of: Final Fantasy XI - first MMO in the series Fallout 3 - introduced FPS gameplay to the series (under new management) Mortal Kombat: Deception - someone put an RPG in the campaign mode of a fighting game Keio Flying Squadron II - a platformer Keio Flying Squadron III (I don’t think the title is correct) - a board/party game Metroid Prime - introduced FPS gameplay to the series Resident Evil 4 - completely revamped the controls (FINALLY!!!) and removed zombies ActRaiser II - what happened to the sim portion of the game? Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - began the shift away from a WWII theme Wing Commander III - introduction of live action FMV to the series (a mainstay for the rest of the series) Grand Theft Auto III - open world gameplay Honorable mentions: Doom 3 - still an FPS, but drastically different style of gameplay StarFox Adventure - technically not a sequel, but WTH?!?!? Actually, every StarFox game that isn’t StarFox or StarFox 64. Again, WTH?!?!? World of Warcraft - also not technically a sequel, but drastically different style of gameplay from previous Warcraft games

[@Real_The_Goof]

Super Mario Bros 2 is my favorite as i feel it stands out the most.. it's just SO different! So it's my favorite in the series.

[@marbles8641]

Totally wanted to say this one but forgot Super Mario World to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island Both amazing games, but Yoshi's island was an entire new take on the world, graphics and game play... still one of my all time favorite games.

[@VirtualVernon]

in Toe Jam and Earl 2 you left out the part about coins, and how you can use them at coin meters. Each lvl has a guy with a radio, and you can use a coin to challenge him in a beatbox competition.

[@JakeAndKamHaveIssues]

Great episode guys. Radiant Silver Gun and Ikaruga come to mind. I never really dug Ikaruga's mechanics over its predecessor.

[@88DreadGT]

Man, I loved Zillion! Remember being disappointed in Zillion 2. Ys Books 1&2 I played on my friend's Turbo Duo back in the early 90's and recently got it on my Wii Virtual Console. It made me go back and complete my Sega Master System version and realized how excruciatingly harder the SMS version was. I had Ys III for the SNES. Not nearly as good but did not suck. The last part is frustratingly hard. Great episode!

[@sonictoast]

Very cool topic for a video. Some I can think of are tmnt for NES compared to tmnt 2 and 3. Also Earthworm Jim 1 & 2 compared to 3. DK & DK Jr. compared to DK 3. There's Mario RPG to Paper Mario (Paper Mario was intended to be the sequel).

[@todesziege]

TMNT 2 wasn't originally a sequel though, it was only renamed as so for the home port. The arcade version came out around the same time as the first NES game.

[@Tempora158]

Double Dragon V. The previous four games were Japanese beat-em-ups, but then this fifth game is an American one-on-one fighting game. Star Fox Adventures. The previous two games were in-plane shooters, but then this game is an on-foot action adventure. Fighting Force 2. The previous game was a linear co-op 3D beat-em-up, but then this game is a single player exploration-based third person shooter. Donkey Kong 3. The previous two games were about making your way up to the top of a structure, but this game is a shooter.

[@Shinobi6407]

Marvel vs Capcom to MVC2 is a pretty good example of a sequel changing things up. 2 member tag teams to 3.