God's Foreknowledge and Human Free Will, Romans

[@ramanometh5840]

Eisegesis if I ever did see it. These two gentlemen are so eager to affirm free will they read it into a passage that explicitly excludes the idea.

[@3leon306]

The apostolic fathers and 2000 years of Catholic history say they.ate correct ...

[@jstevo1349]

yes thats because we interpret scripture in light of tradition and dogmas (and rationality). otherwise you simply get the idea that God has arms and legs and feathers and wings.

[@ramanometh5840]

Again this discussion irritated me somewhat, how often it happens too! Catholics or atleast anti-calvanists miss characterize Calvinsim as hyper-calvinsim. These two things are very different, one is biblically sound, the other is falsehood and heresy. It would be nice if people didn't confuse these things, being labeled a heretic by accidental implication is still being labelled a heretic. Lastly, not to make this a competition of sorts, let the world world be evangelized by Catholics or protestants, so long as the name of Christ is preached, we are satisfied.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Both Calvinism and hyper Calvinism are heretical though. And before you launch ito a defense, yes, I know how many theologians for how many centuries have taught Calvinism. It’s been 1600 years now, not counting the centuries before Christ came when the Jews taught the same heresy, just with a different bunch of benefactors.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Well, perhaps the understanding of Gods sovereignty and man’s free will hasn’t been understood by you two gentleman but it’s probably only because no one has taught it to you and you didn’t conceive of it yourselves. And then antimony crutch isn’t needed and it’s not open theism. It’s really rather simple. We can agree that God created man with free will, the will to choose to abandon himself and worship God or the ability to refuse and worship himself. What has been missed is the correct understanding of God’s omniscience. W Omnipotence is Gods ability to do whatever he pleases, and his omnipresence is his ability to be at all places in whatever degree of glory he so chooses. But we mistakenly define omniscience as Gods knowledge of all things. In the other omnis we allow God some choice, some power in the exercise of his power but not so with omniscience. But we should. Omniscience should be rightly described as God’s ability to know everything he wished to know. With this correct definition God can be all-powerful, all-knowledgeable, create mankind with free will and yet choose not to know if they will decide to worship or not and therefore not be the director of their choices. It’s a shame this isn’t taught in seminaries.

[@jstevo1349]

it isnt taught because its not true. God knows everything because he is there when it happens keeping it all in existence. he cannot "turn away" and not be in a place, as he is everywhere always. he is also eternal and unchanging, never learning anything new. and because of this he simply knows all things. its something we attribute to him from what he does rather than something he chooses to have

[@amonesotera9238]

If you say Romans 9:11 Predestination is inaccurate, where humans DO have free will, then you're saying your god infact doesn't know all things before they happen, correct ? Is your god all knowing or not ? If he is, then surely he knew your predestination, correct or not ? Stop lying to people; doing your best to justify one verse with another. Either your god is all knowing or He isn't !!!

[@A-mb1yx]

All knowing does not mean predestined everything and no free will

[@maxamilianman4037]

Deliberate obfuscation.

[@3leon306]

Calvinism? indeed!!!