Haldex vs Torsen - 4Motion vs Quattro - VW Tiguan vs Audi Q5 - test on rollers

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Torsen vs diff lock - REAL QUATTRO vs ALL GRIP PRO: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4CqloSpnJmErM0 Torsen vs EMCD - REAL QUATTRO vs ALL GRIP SELECT: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpSUaItqgbyVhKM Torsen vs Viscous Coupling - REAL QUATTRO vs ALL GRIP AUTO: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4ecYXWNnspkopY

[@pekiimatvrdi]

Next time get matching engines too, just want to see it

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@pekiimatvrdi We'll try.

[@pekiimatvrdi]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers in ur oppinion which is better quattro or 4motion?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@pekiimatvrdi There are many types of Quattro and many types of 4Motion so this question cannot be answered. Here's video about quattro: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHKnp2qlhbWag7s

[@pekiimatvrdi]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ehat about haldex or torsen

[@peterm3861]

So much wrong information and arguments here in the comments, that's sad. There are 2 different systems for AWD used in Volkswagen Group cars. Knowing which type is in which car is simple, it only depends on how the engine is mounted: Is the engine mounted transversely => front-based AWD system with hydraulic clutch that shuts when the front wheels slip. This clutch type AWD system comes from a company called Haldex and is used by some other car makers also. Regular driving is by propelling only the front wheels. When one or two slip, ABS wheel speed sensors notice that, shut the clutch and up to 50% go to the rear wheels when the clutch is shut completely. Front and rear differantial is of an open diff type. Distribution 95:5 (little drag in the clutch, therefore always 5% to the rear) up to 50:50. To get the distribution active, wheel speed sensors have to read a difference in wheel speed between front and rear axle and then activate the hydraulic clutch. Early models with Haldex Gen. 1 clutch (Golf 4, Seat Leon 1, Audi A3 1st gen) needed a for the driver noticeable slip in the front to kick in. Always front wheels slip and then after a short moment force is sent to the rear also. Newer Haldex Generation reacts more quickly. Is the engine mounted longitudinally => permanent 50/50 AWD system with mechanical torsen center differential. When the front or rear wheels spin, force is distributed to the other axle mechanically. To kick in, there has to be a wheel speed difference between front and rear axle for the mechanical torsen diff to transfer the force to the other axle. So for this AWD system you need to be a bit harsh when stuck to have enough slippage on one axle. But driving is more predictable because it's always permanent AWD. Also in this type it is possible to send more power to the rear than to the front. So drifting is rather possible with this system (and enough power). Distribution 50:50 to 30:70 or 70:30 BOTH possible (not sure about the exact numbers). Front and rear differantials are open diffs. Both systems can be found in Audi and VW cars, even Seats, Porsches and Bentleys. The original Audis (before A3 came) had always longitudinally mounted engines and the second type of AWD, the mechanical one with torsen diff and 50:50 permanent base-distribution, so this system is mostly referred to when "Quattro" is mentioned. Other cars of VW-Group with "Quattro": Only Passat with engine longitudinally (3B/3BG, 4Motion emblem on the trunk), Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Bentleys, Seat Exeo, Audi A4 to A8, Q5 and Q7 and of course the old Audi Quattros, Audi 80 Quattro, Audi 100 or 200 Quattro,... 4Motion was first introduced in Golf 4 and this clutch-type system is also used in all Audi A3, A1, Q2, Q3, TT, VW Tiguan, Golf, Passat with engine transversely, the new big VW SUV for US market, Seat Leon, Ateca, Skoda Octavia,... So it is possible to have an Audi (S3 or TT-RS for example) with Quattro emblem on it but using an other AWD system than it's bigger brothers who are "real" Audis. Also you have 4Motion sign on Passat 3B/3BG but with the Quattro system underneath. Always depending on how the engine is mounted. In older cars the mechanical Audi Quattro system with torsen center diff mostly outperforms other systems because it's mechanical and reacts constantly. In newer cars, advanced electronics help those not-true AWD systems to become better and better, as you see in the video here. In my opinion, best AWD system for street car is one with 3 mechanical torsen diffs. One in the middle like Audi Quattro system has, also one in the front axle and one in the rear. As far as I know Subaru used this system in older AWD cars like the old Imprezas and Legacys. So an old Audi with Quattro performs very well in bad grip conditions (like you all have seen in many videos) but old Subarus have an even better AWD system. No wonder, since they were used in Rallye.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Peter Muelltonner Very nice description, but you are also sending wrong information. Especially about Haldex. New generations (IV, V) can power rear wheels without any difference in wheel speed between front and rear axles, there are tens of factors, clutch is working all the time within the range from 100:0 to 50/50 (static). All up to software. PS. Center torsen diff is not 50/50 since years, there are also different diffs used by Audi, always called Quattro.

[@peterm3861]

I know all that, but I decided to explain only the older systems, that's enough complex info. As I mentioned, newer Haldex AWD reacts quicker than first generation. You are right, it is even able to shut the clutch between front and rear while standing still because of an electric oil pump. I think in older variants the oil pressure was generated by the drive shaft mechanically and therefore it could only shut the clutch when the front wheels were already spinning/slipping. But not exactly sure about that... Also torsen-Quattro hasn't been 50/50 basic split always, correct. In some newer S or RS models (with engine longitudinally of course) a bit more force was sent to the rear by default. I just wanted to show the basic difference in those two systems. And that is: Engine longitudinally: Torsen, 50/50 basic, 30/70 to 70/30 (roughly), mechanic system. Engine transversely: Haldex, 100/0 basic, 100/0 to 50/50 distribution, electronically controlled hydraulic system. All independent of which brand the (VW Group) car is. Of course newer models use electronics also to increase AWD performance like applying the brake when one wheel slips (electronic diff lock or electronic LSD), pre-applying the haldex clutch before start etc. Also interesting: Newest Audis also use a hydraulic clutch similar to the Haldex system, even if the engine is mounted longitudinally, no more mechanical torsen diff and no more 50/50 basic distribution. There are videos about that.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Peter Muelltonner The most popular torsen that is used nowadays as a center diff is 40/60 (front/rear) and it can go to 70/30 or 15/85. Haldex based systems actually may split the torque in any values from ~100/0 to ~0/100 (if you focus on car dynamics) whenever they want, what is huge advantage (if software is smart enough). Haldex may be also set for full time awd like in some super-cars. The newest Quattro called Ultra is also using clutch pack, but its design is completely different from Haldex.

[@peterm3861]

Right man, thanks for the additional info. I don't have the Quattro Ultra system exactly in my mind right now, will have to watch a video again... Is it possible with Quattro Ultra to have a 0/100 front/rear split? New tech is fascinating, isn't it? But I'm curious how reliable those new systems are and how expensive a replacement or repair is...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Peter Muelltonner Yes, theoretically it is possible to have a 0/100 front/rear split with Quattro Ultra, but it doesn't mean RWD. People very often misunderstand the torque and rotational speed (while these are two different things), I don't know in which group you are :)

[@iDrive4fun93]

I had a 1997 Audi A4 Quattro. Manual, 2.8. Was amazing in bad weather. And was a drifting rally beast in the snow and on dirt roads. I miss it.

[@ElyciusM]

had the same but a 98, such a great car. loved it so much I sold it to buy an 06 Audi A4 with a 6 spd manual which I loved too. but I just sold it last week for a 2013 S4 which I'm currently loving. Such great cars. for many situations. and perfect for Michigan winter's when the only other vehicles on the road are trucks and subies

[@insidex2001]

so why yall sell this cars when they still can drive

[@iDrive4fun93]

@@insidex2001 onto newer things. Once the paychecks started getting bigger, the toys got newer and faster.

[@zepter00]

@@iDrive4fun93 od you sell nad miss.you are stupid pr you don’t know what you want... like a women 😆

[@constantinevu48]

@@insidex2001 First because the lack of experience, you don't know what you have untill you lose it. Secondly because we can buy new things, but we can't keep the old ones. Rich people actually doesn't sell anything they like, but just keeping them in the garage.

[@Obywatel_RP8P]

Brakuje obrazka z wybranego trybu na początku testu tiguana, dopiero pozniej sie pojawia. Nie wiedzialem w ktorym trybie jest ustawiony naped. Dzieki za test. Zdecydowanie znakomicie wykonane i zaznaczone ktore osie miały podlozone rolki. Brakuje takich montazow na youtube. Niektorzy to robia niedbale. Dzieki jeszcze raz.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Darek Nowak Dzięki :-) Co do Tiguana, rzeczywiście nie dodałem obrazka z trybem z uwagi, iż był to jedyny testowany tryb (domyślny - on road) w tej konfiguracji rolek i nie wiedzieć dlaczego uznałem, że to oczywiste ;-)

[@jpch8814]

Hopefully Quattro with Ultra is better on rollers. There is no denying that in deep snow or rough terrain Torsen is great, but most people need AWD on crossovers for slippery and light conditions. Haldex as usual is underrated, yet reacts faster than most systems, and outperforms many including torsen, Good job 4Motion.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

jp ch I think Quattro Ultra may be better not only on rollers, but in many real conditions. So may be Haldex soon, as it is similar to Ultra.

[@Floppy379]

Why don't you try it?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

XFSoftX Cause I don't have Quattro Ultra.

[@Floppy379]

Have you ever thought about renting the cars you need from renting companies such as Hertz? This channel is very useful. It's a pity that you don't have more cars to test.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

XFSoftX I can't afford that. This is hobby channel and I do not have such budget to invest. I asked a few renting companies if they can rent a car for a few minutes for free, only one agreed.

[@timmyboi3416]

People, if you are in a situation where you are already stuck (eg. 2-3 wheels spinning and no forward movement), a little lifehack you can always try with a 4WD or AWD car is to put it in gear (put foot off the clutch, apply a bit throttle and then press simultaneously (lightly at first) on the brakes. This will slow the spinning wheel and allows the standing wheel to try. It is usually done by the ASR for you, but for exaple my toyota hilux does not have it. It saved me quite often, especially when pulling other vehicles out of the snow.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

That works but only for quite old cars, ESP/TC/ASR is standard for quite a long time.

[@odgie9915]

Tiguan driver, is about as smooth as sand paper.

[@badandylaoc]

Excellent information if I encounter some rollers in the wild.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Andrew Moore Let me quote one of my viewers: "You need to understand: this is hands down the most pure test for any system's capability to put torque to the wheel with least slip. This method removes the need to get matching tires, driving on similar undisturbed terrain (if you test the second car in the same path driving over previous tire tracks, it's not accurate), etc. This method has one simple objective: put enough torque down to the wheel on the ground to move the car forward ~50 cm. All other factors are nulled except for the system's ability. Now, whether that translates to getting through tough terrain is another matter, as there are other factors like suspension etc. However doing well in roller testing is strongly correlated with success in rough terrain".

[@shadowgaming6660]

r/woooosh

[@vlad-jq1qi]

duszaniespokojna you must be fun at parties

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@Gaea 402 ??

[@Andi-fh5lh]

@@shadowgaming6660 r/ihavereddit

[@moominjuice2]

One of the main differences is the Torsen is pretty much service/maintenance free... no oil changes or software failures or knackered clutches 😁

[@MrGoMario]

Actually you are wrong! A Torsen differential does need an oil change every 15.000km (heavy use) or 30.000km (light use)

[@moominjuice2]

@@MrGoMario Audi say sealed for life on my B8. 150,000km on the clock and independent Audi specialist checked and confirmed as such when I asked for it to be done at service. I'm sure different manufacturers have different schedules and won't harm to change, but I'll go with what my trusted Indy garage says - wrong or not.

[@dzenan.m]

@@moominjuice2 They say the same for their ZF automatic transmission "sealed for life" , yet the ZF , manufacturer itself, says that they do need oil change.

[@wolforla]

​@@moominjuice2 It's sealed for life for the FIRST owner, who usin the car for 3-5 years and neglecting logical 10-15k oil change periods and goes with the manufacturer recommendations (like "lifetime" oil or 30k km engin oil change period and bullshits like these). Lifetime and sealed for life oils do not exist.

[@DimaBrewer]

Абсолютно с вами согласен, езжу уже 3 года на Touareg NF, ни разу не заменил масло в редкуторе, коробке и раздатке. Ни одного потёка, звука, шума нет. Надёжность главное!

[@LIFEINSPEED]

Straight to the point on evry video that's why I love this channel

[@busslayer4790]

I was almost at the end and then started to wonder when they were going to show the other car.

[@georgedavid3200]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@arrowdog8852]

Yeah, this is inexcusable. Cars look so similar nowadays, they need an overlay to identify each vehicle.

[@thetoughcookie3665]

I had to watch 3 tests and then notice "oh the car changed actually" and then took all again :D

[@Endzeit2014]

[very impressive...both cars have the same problem with the last task. both front wheels and One back wheel on the roller plates. now I´m feeling very good, as I have only 4-motion (gen.4) and couldnt afford a quattro ;-) spacibo friends and thanks for the cool demonstration.]

[@dmitriykhan2011]

Спасибки)))

[@jirace]

The Tiguan has a transverse engine and is FWD dominant. The Q5 has a longitudinal engine and is RWD dominant. The two systems are different but equal to the same setups across brands; ie, the Tiguan and Q3 use the same system/layout yet one has quattro and one 4motion.

[@v60polestar88]

4motion is Haldex and completely different from Quattro. Haldex is used by many other manufacturers like Volvo. It’s a very good AWD system that people hate on for no good reason. Yes it’s more front bias but as you can see it’s just as good as Quattro

[@blasphemicwhale]

@@v60polestar88 haldex is also used by Audi, in cars like the S3, TTRS, and even the R8. It’s the same system, just set up differently. Quattro is a blanket term referring to any AWD system used by Audi (and so is 4Motion). A good example is the mk7 Golf R, and 8v Audi S3. The R has “4Motion awd” and the S3 has “Quattro awd” but they are IDENTICAL awd systems.

[@missingMBR]

@@v60polestar88 4motion uses both haldex and torsen. Torsen is used in the Amarok platform.

[@dzenan.m]

@@v60polestar88 Quattro and 4motion are just brand names for same systems. They can both be haldex or torsen. Although most 4motions are haldex

[@RST9413]

what the heck are you talking about? you think the only difference between two cars is the awd system? even if you put torsen on that tiguan is still a tiguan. what the fuck

[@Сончинчон]

Все ясно и понятно , спасибо за обзор ❤

[@lancercool1992]

looks like these 2 cars performed pretty much the same.. what am i missing?

[@teddycristian2779]

they are basically the same underneath. both vw.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@teddycristian2779 Not exactly. Both vag, but awd systems are completely different.

[@guidopaulusma9046]

audi and vw are the same manufacture

[@TheSovietHotDog]

Just watch the first test. The VW gets off the rollers faster. It’s FWD and send power to the back when it loses traction. It’s primarily FWD.

[@kjusn]

@@guidopaulusma9046 yes but their AWD is completely different lol

[@JacquesPO13]

Test Audi został zrobiony w Rzeszowie na parkingu (blisko stacji paliw Bartek) przy Parku Papieskim.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nie tylko Audi, sporo innych samochodów też było testowanych w tym miejscu :-)

[@JacquesPO13]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Tyle mieszkam koło parku, a jakoś nigdy nie miałem okazji zobaczyć testu na żywo... 😢

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@JacquesPO13 Audi Q5, Volvo V60 CC, Jeep Cherokee, Bmw 530i, Lexus RX 350, Suzuki Vitara, Skoda Superb, Volvo XC90... Dołącz do nas na facebook'u, to następnym razem dam znać, kiedy tam będziemy.

[@JacquesPO13]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Właśnie dołączyłem. Dzięki ;) Pozdrawiam i do zobaczenia ! ;)

[@joenissan]

Both systems have to either be the same or are quite similar since they performed almost identical.

[@wawbagel]

joenissan those are completely different systems

[@SeanyMacks]

@@wawbagel but the results were pretty similar.

[@RST9413]

so you test this system only like in the video? are you retarded?@@SeanyMacks

[@natebrooks1071]

So after reading a book of comments, which one was better, the car that jumped off of the rollers first correct

[@ericmichel3857]

So from this test it seems there is little to no advantage to the more expensive and complex Audi Quattro system compared to the much cheaper and less complex VW Haldex system. Perhaps it is worth it in the sport models where you can have more torque to the rear? But even there it seems like only the R8 has a system that allows it really drive the rear wheels. All the other S and RS versions seem to primarily under steer just like the cheaper VW Haldex cars. Am I wrong? I have never seen a RS5, RS6 or any other Audi (other than the R8) breaking the rear end loose under power and all the reviews complain about unrelenting under steer. So it doesn't seem to help with low speed traction for SUV's and in most cases doesn't help for sport driving. Seems like they would be better off just using the cheaper and less complex Haldex system in most cases.

[@longnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame]

RS Cars powerslide easily on slippery surfaces

[@grasam86]

Haha more complex Torsen??? Haldex is way more complex and expensive than the 50 year old bullet proof torsen. Both haldex and torsen understeer without LSD. But with LSD Both will happily slide you off the road

[@ericmichel3857]

@@grasam86 what's so complicated about a electro hydraulic open rear diff? At least the others have a front, rear, and center diff that can send power front and rear. They all work better with limited slip, but a controllable center inherently is better and adds complexity. Which is why VW only puts it in their more expensive cars. The cheap cars get the less complex haldex.

[@silviuguseila2552]

@@ericmichel3857 Torsen is more or less maintainence free, while haldex requires oil changes every 60000km, and filter, and pump cleaning and haldex car have a front and rear diff which also benefit from oil change even though VEW says they are "lifetime".

[@Mosstachio]

@@silviuguseila2552 Gen 5 haldex has no filter to change, it does require fluid changes at $20 per change ($30 if you replace the drain and fill plugs), and like 10 minutes of your time. Also, VW don't have a front differential, they have a front bevel box and a rear differential, nevertheless they both should have fluid changes despite the "lifetime" guarantee. That being said, 99.9% of differentials or geared anything that is meant to function for an extended period of time will have fluids that need/should be changed regularly. Powered gear systems, especially those with bearings simply last longer with fluid. Whether the fluid is for lubrication, cooling, or even to aid in increasing friction, or a mix of these purposes, fluid increases longevity.

[@dimaol2439]

Предохранитель в тигуан поставьте пожалуйста обратно. Так как я ездил на haldex и в первом ролике видно что задний мост сразу включён. Сначала должны были передние чуть прокрутиться потом тоько включается haldex.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Dima Ol Can you explain your comment in English?

[@all-x-under8712]

+duszaniespokojna: dima ol said: put back a fuse into tiguan please. since i have used haldex and it's seen in the first clip that the rear axel is 'on' from the beginning. the front ones should have spinned a little only after haldex turns on. (just translation)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

ll-X-Under كنيش Thanks :) In such case comment of Dima Ol is so ridiculous that I'm not even going to explain it...

[@theyamay]

Esp off и полный привод на халдексе сразу на все колеса. Прошивается Vas или ваг комом

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

theyamay ESP has nothing to do with haldex. And haldex is responsible for torque distribution only between front and rear axles, not individual wheels.

[@ale7501]

So at 2:42 Tiguan failed the test? Would it be different if snow option was selected? Or maybe esp off?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Here is the test where snow mode was used: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZeUhq1uiNahsKs When it comes to ESP - I don't know...

[@10isitch52]

How is the new Haldex reliability? Old ones failed so often Audi dealer recommended replacing fluid every 40k miles on my TT. Torsen on my Avant doesn't require any maintenance although I change mine every 100k just to be safe.

[@simoagrat3603]

Vw tiguan graceful and beautiful appearance to audi 🤩

[@johnlastname2895]

So what about all the vehicle traction control systems that are applying the brakes to the wheels that have no traction? This test is not just about differentials

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Yes, if we consider left/right torque distribution then test is mainly about traction control systems.

[@andretrujillo]

Why did the Haldex system moved the car when the guy changed to the back? So if the car was in a slight uphill as naturally weight is transferred to the rear axle, would it have moved the car without the guy having to change sits?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

That was heavy guy. I think it made it cause when he changed the sit - front of the car went up and it was easier to jump over the rollers.

[@theCubicLife]

Anyone know what luggage bars or the rims hes got on the Audi? i love the look of that q5

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

These are original Audi bars, so probably made Thule.

[@StevoE7]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it appears the Audi seems to favour a RWD and the VW favours a FWD? Also in mountain mode did the Tiguan pass that last roller test?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Steven E Audi has basic torque split 40/60, while Tiguan probably from 90/10 to 50/50, so you are correct. Tiguan passed last roller test with a trick - passenger went to the back to raise the nose of the car up. It was in offroad mode (mountain symbol).

[@StevoE7]

duszaniespokojna very interesting to know. Thanks. We have a LWB Tiguan in the family but it mostly stays on asphalt...and snow and ice.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Bilyy Drakon Kid, using an insults and vulgarisms doesn't make you adult, but a dolt. All your comments are deleated, if you want to discuss - do it normal. But first study the mechanical structure of haldex to know that it can't go above static 50/50, just read about it as apparently you have no idea what haldex is... By the way - great that you send the links to controllers, they confirm how wrong or fooled you are about 40/60 torque split. Shot in the knee.

[@Addison0526]

Looks like the only real difference is the torsen has some sort of lsd in the rear, shown towards the end. There are so many different configurations with both depending on the car that these two seem pretty equal. Torsen can come with lsd rear differential and sometimes Haldex comes with torque vectoring. Somtimes they both have open diffs. It would be better to show the difference by getting all four wheels on ice and slow motion to show how the wheels engage/disengage power depending on traction, but really both of the systems are going to work for pretty much anyone. On track the Haldex system might act funny and in the snow it might tend to understeer more as it can't put as much power to the rear wheels.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

In this case both have front and rear open diffs. I don't know any haldex system with torque vectoring, there were a few with eLSD (Saab, Opel).

[@Addison0526]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers the new Golf R has torque vectoring. It can send 100% of the power that is going to the rear wheels to either right or left side. But like most haldex systems, still only up to 50% to the rear. I suppose you're right with the torsen front and rear as there's no way either would get off 3 rollers and the Tiguan wasn't able to at the end because of only being able to send 50% to the rear that wasn't enough power/torque.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Addison0526 Firstly - my bad, typing mistake - both have front and rear OPEN diffs. Secondly - Golf R doesn't use haldex any more, that's different system. Thirdly - max static torque split of haldex system (or similar) is 50/50 but dynamic torque split varies from 100/0 to ~0/100. Tiguan failed the last test due to traction control setup, not because of haldex. There are many cars with haldex that can pass this test, including Tiguan I.

[@muckman5509]

Was that Q5 equipped with the Sports differential or just the conventional system?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Standard open differential.

[@danczer1]

Intresting that the Q5 could go off the rollers with one front/rear wheel, but the A6 couldn't in you BMW 530i vs Audi A6 test. Which productionk year is the Q5?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Ladislav Tánczos Q5 from 2016 (or 2015) had no problems with three rollers, but such test was quite difficult for Q5 from 2012 (pre FL).

[@odthegreatest]

can you please find a rexton w for the same test, thanks

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Orçun Dursun Rexton may be to heavy for my rollers, but maybe soon I will test XLV and Korando.

[@hirun643]

VW vs VW

[@-M-511]

Audi is owned by VW but Audi is a different type of quality

[@lexspecialis4808]

@@-M-511 🤣

[@hiokey931]

Hiru n Yes but Vw is Luxury brand and Audi is premium brand !

[@tonimanfred7536]

Vw is handicap car

[@tonimanfred7536]

@@hiokey931 nothing is luxury on vw

[@nnn-pr3vr]

So it’s 3 wheel drive

[@nixxtable]

correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Q5 crown ring diff?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

I had the same doubts, so I asked Audi - the answer was torsen.

[@WojciechLenartowicz]

Jak VW i Audi mają się do nowego Dustera w trybie 4x4 lock? Pytam poważnie.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Jon Doe Mniej więcej tak: kzbin.info/www/bejne/omjSZ6itbrJ-r7M

[@kristoffscuba5466]

The test shows exactly what you would expect. Haldex reacts quicker, but it can't send enough drive backwards to the one wheel that has grip if the the other three wheels have no grip. Torsen can do this, just about, but in all other situations torsen reacts slower and produces more wheelspin than the haldex system. To anyone who undersrtands how the haldex clutch system and the torsen mechanical center diff works, this is exactly what you would expect to happen. Torsen is ultimately the only system of the two that will keep the car moving in all senarios if only one wheel has grip. Haldex is better at the majority of real world applications though.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

That's not entirely correct. Many haldex systems can move the car forward if only one rear wheel has grip. All up to software.

[@kristoffscuba5466]

Well it can't do it in this video can it...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@kristoffscuba5466 Tiguan II can't. But if you watch other videos - many cars, incl. Tiguan I can. Haldex is quite a strong clutch-pack.

[@kristoffscuba5466]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I suppose the question then becomes, how long can it keep it up for before it overheats. Torsen could keep it up all day. I do agree that most of the time Haldex V is the better system, but I think that it's so vechicle specific in it's implementaion, you never know for sure how good it is in your car. And the marketing people like to keep it that way. Torsen however, you know exactly what you are getting.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@kristoffscuba5466 In the most demanding awd systems based on haldex like R8 or Chiron there's a colling system so I suppose it can work on stress for quite a long time. In normal cars - again all up to software. If the system is smart enough to decrease the stress on the clutch-pack in every possible moment then it can also do the job for a long time. If not - for sure it will overheat fast. I also agree that you never exactly know (without doing very deep research) what you get if awd system is based on haldex. It can be tuned in very different ways.

[@EverydayCars]

Where did you buy the rollers from?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

They are DIY.

[@EverydayCars]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers nice I've been looking for some I guess I'll have to make them also.

[@princebankz7012]

Hmm... i do like the way the VW was and how reactant it was... the Audi just looked good 🤣🤣 but at least it wasn't stuck in the last part

[@Nicoleise]

The VW wasn't stuck either. They had two runs of the three roller scenario; first in off road mode and second in on rode mode. In on road mode, the cars electronics doesn't anticipate this scenario (which I guess makes sense) and thus doesn't solve it, but in ice/snow or off road mode, the car anticipates this situation and actually solves it very well. The car was only stuck if you were "using it wrong" or better to say; if you found yourself "stuck" like that, you could just switch to off road move and continue. So not really stuck in my mind. :-)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nicoleise In my tests it failed in all modes.

[@Savierka13]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers looks like the driver fault in last video really

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Savierka Alimov Why do you think so?

[@Savierka13]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Its allways that story on offroad , if you push too much throttle , you will just stuck. Compare last test audi and vw driver , audi was on and off gas a little bit , not too much throttle , thats why he get away

[@cannavips]

Buenos días si alguien puede ayudarme . Tengo u Passat v6 4 motion y piso fondo en primera y de bloquea de manera que no sale y cala el motor . ( Saliendo sin derrapar ningún problema ) Gracias

[@phaeton-xy9lf]

haldex looks better fast. but someone says torsen not requires oil change. is that real???

[@emorozov]

I think they will perform same on 4 platforms 😮

[@juliodelpozo7533]

test haldex 4 and haldex 5? in t5 multivan and t6 multivan for example..... Thanks

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Multivans would be interesting.

[@bartoszkul5022]

Oba to Haldexy, Audi montuje Torsena tylko w silniki zamontowanym wzdłużnie nie poprzecznie jak ten TDI, to są te same napędy, jednak w VW może być nowszy gdyż w teście mamy Audi Q5 którego się już nie produkuje.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Bartosz Kulaszka Bzdura. Audi Q5 nie ma Haldexa. Każdy kto choć trochę się na tym zna potrafi to zauważyć gołym okiem...

[@SpalaczBenzyny]

W Q5 silnik jest zamontowany wzdłużnie, rzuć okiem pod maskę.

[@andrjooo]

Bartosz Kulaszka - postudiuj troche temat quattro i wtedy pisz - Audi Q5 Nigdy nie stosowalo Haldexa :)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Bartosz Kulaszka Nadal uważasz, że Q5 ma haldexa? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaOyeGNtaLBqpck

[@northwind393]

Wv haldex, audi torsen?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Correct.

[@northwind393]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers what? Audi torsen top!

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@northwind393 What what? You asked a question and I confirmed.

[@roby_5259]

Nice video! Tiguan has Haldex (electroactuated clutch),all the q5 have Torsen (a real autolocking center diff). Tiguan is comparable with q3 (both with haldex). I'd like to know if the test failed from tiguan (front wheels and one rear wheel on rolls) in wich DPS modality was made (Normal or Offroad). I think Normal. In offroad the haldex is locked more than in normal.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Roby _525 There is a selector (left-down side of the screen) showing the mode, this was onroad. Here you have other tests (snow & offroad modes): kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZeUhq1uiNahsKs

[@cannavips]

Buenos días . Si alguien puede ayudarme tengo un Passat v6 y cuando tiene que activarse la tracción 4 se bloquea y cala el motor . Bien al pisar en 1 o en alguna rampa de tierra . Gracias

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

What generation of Passat?

[@andrjooo]

duszaniespokojna Bardzo fajne porównanie, Tiguan nie dał rade tylko w ostatnim teście.. Mam pytanie.. Czy jest to kwestia elektronicznej blokady która być może zbyt słabo dohamowywuje obracające się tylne kolo? Czy może Haldex nie przenosi na tył wystarczającej mocy.. a może i jedno i drugie? Pozdrawiam i dzięki za filmik .

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

andrjooo W mojej ocenie to tylko kwestia EDL na tylnej osi, Haldex V potrafi przenieść około 3500 Nm. Zobacz na moim kanale pełny test tego Tiguana (Tiguan vs Forester), ostatecznie przy małym tricku jakoś się wydostał.

[@mysza3770]

A czy przypadkiem audi nie ma tzw napędu quattro ultra czyli napędu który nie jest stały tak jak w klasycznym guattro?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

spektrum finanse Nie, w tej wersji jest klasyczne Quattro. Cały czas szukam samochodu z Quattro Ultra do testu.

[@3dlll]

Tiguan is a little bit more reactive but both are great

[@nanukbigwithe]

i co lepsze okazałosię, bo nie widzę poza ostatnią próbą różnicy......?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

nanukbigwithe Obydwa systemy mają swoje zalety i wady, nie da się obiektywnie stwierdzić, że jeden jest lepszy czy gorszy od drugiego.

[@nanukbigwithe]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers :D czyli który lepszy poza szosą Twoim zdaniem

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

nanukbigwithe Poza szosą zdecydowanie haldex, pod warunkiem, że jest to czwarta lub piąta generacja.

[@halityilmaz2942]

In these videos, the tires are touching to the sides and gain traction and this is usually ignored.

[@halityilmaz2942]

Check the 3 tires ww one. It clearly shows.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

halit yilmaz Watch this outtake of Mazda test and tell me if you still think that sides are giving the traction: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpDPfpKsjdyFidE

[@TheDemi847]

I agree, I saw that too ,

[@jancimzar8940]

emm, why is there a previous gen Q5?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Jan Čimžar And why not?

[@everythingkenx]

Why did you choose such an old Q5? You know the body style is different right?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Ken X As far as I remember, Q5 was just a year older than Tiguan

[@everythingkenx]

2018 is a new redesign for the Q5

[@everythingkenx]

Audi has upgraded the drivetrain to “quattro all-wheel drive with ultra technology”. This is Audi’s state of the art, six years in the making, all-wheel drive technology. It monitors driving conditions 500 milliseconds ahead and can engage the quattro system in under 200 milliseconds. This allows the 2018 Q5 to maximize fuel efficiency without sacrificing the all-wheel drive performance that Audi is known for.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Ken X New Q5 with small engines has Quattro Ultra. Many people claim it is not real Quattro. I think it may be better than "the real one", but it is the same as competitors use for years. The same performance may be achieved with haldex or similar clutches.

[@everythingkenx]

Ok got it thanks. I know the quattro is mostly fwd and kicks in the awd when necessary. Thanks for your response :)

[@pleappleappleap]

What happens with all four wheels on rollers?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nothing, car would just spinning the wheels.

[@pleappleappleap]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollersAh, but which wheels?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@pleappleappleap All wheels 🙂

[@kwastek]

great study, but it would be nice to actually show labels which car is which

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

If someone is not able to recognise which car is which then I don't think he will understand what is this video about... 🙂

[@kwastek]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers oh yeah, be so smug. since useless ability to recognize cars by their silhouettes has anything to do with knowledge about technology inside them.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@kwastek I am sure that if someone has knowledge about technology inside the cars, he knows that Quattro is known from torsen while 4Motion is known from haldex. And 25 seconds of watching is enough to recognise which system is which. Not to mention that first screen of the video tells which car goes first.

[@30Shimmy]

Are you for real?

[@danupwell7017]

why not to use both petrol or disel engines?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

For what purpose?

[@danupwell7017]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers because TDi and TSi have different torque graphics and because of that it may look like audi is spinning wheels too much when it actually just has more torque at low rpm. I am 100% sure that if tiguan had 2.0 TDi engine the results would be more similar

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@danupwell7017 Torque has not much to do with wheelspin (angular speed). Wheels may not spin at all with huge amount of torque or they may spin very fast with zero torque. Besides up to ~1500 rpm (~300 Nm) these engines have almost the same graphics, while in such test there is just several dozen Nm used.

[@ДрагоДимитров-е7з]

So which is better Torsen or Haldex ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Драго Димитров Torsen used to be better, but during the years awd systems based on haldex (or other clutches) changed from slow, weak and reactive to extremely fast, strong and proactive. Nowadays it is all up to software which controls the haldex clutch (that is different for every manufacturer).

[@khuzzenfrederick9259]

Which one is good symetrical Subaru or haldex?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It depends what your needs are, it depends which car, which haldex and which Subaru system...

[@khuzzenfrederick9259]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers i mean Subaru XV and Audi Q3 2.0 tfsi Quattro 8u

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@khuzzenfrederick9259 XV with manual or CVT? They have very different awd systems.

[@vinchenzo678]

So who won?

[@lazyman1011]

Interessanter Test!

[@-M-511]

For me its looking like the Tiguan did a better job

[@ethanstigler2660]

M 511 it looks better but I definitely prefer the Torsen because it’s much more predictable in harsh conditions

[@andrianisarija3412]

Ethan....yes predict stuck

[@xIcarus227]

The Tiguan failed the last test, how did it do a better job?

[@saauuzza]

that haldex is fwd

[@truckerlifein3]

Toyota 4Runner and G63 ?

[@hp24756]

Interessant

[@nathanlangford3113]

I expected the Audi/Torsen to kill this test, but the VW/Haldex seemed to out perform the Audi in every test... Surprised...

[@JacquesPO13]

Miło zobaczyć parking koło parku papieskiego. Zaraz za tym kościołem mieszkałem przez 6 lat

[@mightyjedo]

Тигуан это разве не ку3 аналог? Сравнивать лучше с ним, а не с ку5 на пневме

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Yes but Q3 doesn't have torsen.

[@Nick-pn5rq]

зачем сравнивать тигуан против тигуана?

[@mightyjedo]

@@Nick-pn5rq а какой смысл вообще тогда? Разные классы вообще

[@Nick-pn5rq]

@@mightyjedoв этом и есть смысл. сравнить на сколько хуже или лучше.

[@ilysha_1981]

это сравнение не класса машины а типа привода

[@vitalijus8457]

Q3 have haldex too?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Q2, Q3 have haldex. Q5 doesn't.

[@meteormedia7021]

What all these test get wrong is, that the secret with torsen lies in the name. TORsen. Since its a mechanical system it needs torque to work properly, the more the better. So if you were to spike the throttle really hard instead of only 10%, the Audi would have even less issues getting off these rollers. On the other hand since Haldex is a electronically controlled system it works more elegant and more efficiently in regular road conditions, but naturally struggles if for example it should deliver lots of torque to the rear wheels in a heavy load scenario like mud or snow. The mechanical system is superior in terms of offroad capability, but the electronically controlled system works more efficiently and less intrusive on the road.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Meteor Media I think you don't understand torsen. It doesn't matter how much you push gas pedal, the point is to apply the torque to the ground. Torsen needs resistance to work. If one side has no grip (rollers, ice, wheel in the air), it behaves like an open diff. Zero resistance means zero torque, no matter how fast wheels are spinning (in fact, wheels may be not spinning at all but they may have a lot of torque or wheels may spin very fast without any torque).

[@cristianvergarapardo]

No veo gran diferencia en ambos sistemas

[@zacharybuckley6478]

Why no all 4?

[@tasicss]

Which one have Torsen?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Q5.

[@bankulin8641]

The test on three rollers is about diff not about AWD system.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

BanKulin What diff?

[@michmich2954]

what do you conclude ?

[@nintendoatarikiller]

Get a Subaru

[@KirillBezzubkine]

Tiguan looks better

[@dominikarpas7558]

Kirill Bezzubkine yes, q5 is 6 years older

[@jacobthompson8507]

They’ve compared a brand new Tiguan with the old Q5. Take a look at a 2018 Q5, it looks 100x better

[@zeyn3969]

This was a Tiguan R and the Audi was just a base. Well s-line

[@christianr3424]

Jacob Thompson "brand new" , the tiguan already is 2.5 years old...

[@jacobthompson8507]

Christian R No, you can still buy that EXACT model brand new now. You can’t buy that generation of Q5 brand new. You are comparing the design of a facelifted 2009 car to a 2016 car.

[@hashrus]

A5 - LONGITUDINAL ARRANGEMENT OF THE ENGINE, TIGUAN - TRANSVERSE

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Right but it's Q5 here.

[@brumph7256]

In that last test it sounded like the driver was feathering the throttle to get the car to rock.

[@osmandubleddelsass8995]

Diesel contre essence ???

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Turbo petrol.

[@osmandubleddelsass8995]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers oui mais ce n'est pas la même force, en NM

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@osmandubleddelsass8995 It doesn't matter, this test is not about torque.

[@osmandubleddelsass8995]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers 400 NM / 4 = 100 NM 300 NM /4 = 75 NM Ça change un peu quand même mais bon c'est vous l'expert 👍

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@osmandubleddelsass8995 Cars do not use their maximum torque during this test. 100 Nm is more than enough here.

[@luminitagabrielafloroiuhos921]

😍 Audi Quattro Allroad

[@loxlover1714]

The Haldex system gets such a bad reputation, I think mostly due to it being a FWD biased system which isn't ideal for "performance" driving. As evident from the rollers it's just as capable as the Torsen system on average, perhaps better as it seems to require less wheel spin to get unstuck in most cases. The Achilles' heel being situations where neither of the front wheels have any traction, it struggles to transfer enough torque to the rear.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Lox Lover Haldex system gets bad reputation because of I, II and III generations, which wear slow, weak and unpredictable. You had to wait for ages until a few Nm reached rear wheels, and when it already got there, it was too late, too much etc. IV and V are completely different thing. It is all about software, which will be different in Audi, VW, Volvo, Bugatti or Lamborghini. Torque is in the rear (or front) even before it's needed, it can be there all the time with any Nm value.

[@loxlover1714]

duszaniespokojna that may be. I have a 17' Golf R, and the AWD is a lot of fun in the snow.

[@anthonysmith4072]

Which is which?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Like in title - haldex (Tiguan) goes first.

[@anthonysmith4072]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you

[@チャーリーブラウン-w8l]

You really don’t start enjoying the engineering of an Audi until you start going into the higher end A4, RS and up, everything else under that is just a VW with an Audi badge

[@danielcrant]

A bit late to the party but that's where you're wrong bucko. The A4 uses the haldex also and the RS3 is honestly the exact same car as a golf r just different badging.... hell I don't know why VW and haldex gets so much hate... the aventador and Chiron both use the haldex system.. so does everything volvo makes... so how is audi's engineering "higher end."

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@danielcrant A4 is not using haldex, it has longitudinally mounted engine. Haldex gets so much hate because of its first or second generation when indeed it wasn't too good...

[@ILLYA_N]

now imagine it's a snowy icy climb... they both will stuck... too little power to the wheel where grip is...

[@cy9nvs]

No shit On ice nothing but spikes matter

[@audriusaudrius5486]

so VW test is better ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Adrian Fellner As far as I remember, Q5 was a year older than Tiguan. I am looking for new Q5 with Quattro Ultra to see if it perfoms better.

[@nikolajelovac1648]

No, VW didn't pass the last test, Audi did.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Adrian Fellner You are correct, but some time ago I tested Q5 from 2012 as I remember (before FL) and it got much worse result, so there must have been some update of traction control software.

[@saloedroeg]

no the VW failed the last test,qauttro is always better

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Adrian Fellner Here you have new Q5 vs the same Tiguan: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6KpfJdjnbmKhZY

[@uygarcan41]

which one is better now? xD

[@طارق-ق9ع]

Uygar Isci@ its the tiguan but the Q5 is more luxury

[@villepekkala]

@@طارق-ق9ع you are saying haldex is better than torsen... you are drunk? you probably driving bicycle

[@urindejbwhi24584]

При чем тут муфта, если показана работа антибукса?

[@zagog4291]

халдекс и есть муфта. антибукс или любой другой режим - во всем она участвует по мере необходимости так или иначе

[@BMH1965]

Basically, both systems need 2 wheels or more on firm ground for either car to move forward. This is an error by the software developers - you should be able to have enough traction with 1 wheel to move the car.

[@Nicoleise]

Maybe you should watch the entire video before passing judgement?

[@____4148]

Qwattro- постоянный полный привод 40/60, а Халдекс муфта. явно полный привод лучше будет. я по песку на Q5 гонял, вообще супер.

[@ragnarok2k10]

это маркетологи ауди тебе эту сказку рассказали?

[@kaanco35]

Which one?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Volkswagen - Haldex V. Audi - Torsen.

[@sergiotorelli4825]

I have a zj 1998 final edition with front truetrac eaton torsen (after market) and rear standard limited slip differential... it works very much more better .... more and more all the time ... these are two poor things (vw & audi)

[@vitojciech]

Na pewno Tiguan ma haldexa?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Na pewno.

[@zofkao349]

Tą Vitarę z tła mogliście przy okazji na rolki wrzucić.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Łukasz Okularczyk Zerknij na mój kanał, była wielokrotnie, żadnych problemów.

[@vitaliyavt6397]

Nice ) Super ) разрыв субарного мозга :)

[@WandalzSWD]

chciałbym by mój 1gen w mkIV tak pracował jak ten w tym suvie z WV :D

[@digitaldreamer8637]

Finally a video demonstration of the Haldex V in action. The Tiguan and the haldex v perform much better! 👍🏼😎

[@rolandocrisostomo2003]

I got a Tahoe. With rear lsd, 4x4 and it weights 2 1/2 ton.

[@otomobilen1951]

Fat americans would not fit on these type of european cars. So you made a good choice.

[@timbardam5878]

Congratulations 👏🏼

[@user-sergey2024]

As a result - 1:1))

[@АлександрБалиев-й9э]

А очему тигуан последний а q5 нет.

[@artistfirat01841]

You know Tiguan has many modes like off-road turn it on and do that test;)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

FIRAT KOSTAKOGLU I did, didn't help, check my other videos with Tiguan and Forester :-)

[@ivanpetrov7996]

Acura Mdx: hold my beer

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@ivanpetrov7996 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKTQoWeEe6ihY80

[@Mop3e-DMB88]

Не зачёт! Не было теста с роликами под четырьмя колёсами!!!

[@kleinfeicht]

Als Audi fahrer muss ich sagen bremst VW AUDI richtig ab man merkt wieviel mühe sich Audi damals gemacht hat jetzt ist das ein VW (Schlechte Qualität) mit Audi Emblem und Preis