Hardened Steel BUCKSHOT - Is this even LEGAL?

We test out the Extreme Penetrator Buckshot, which is .31 caliber, or about 8mm in diameter. I did not even know anyone made this stuff. We test it out and compare it to regular lead 00 buck.
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[@fishstix4209]

Steel has the added benefit of being able to be magnetically tugged out of flesh on game killed with it if it doesn't completely pass through. Could be promising for birdshot for duck hunting to avoid biting down on a pellet.

[@DeAthWaGer]

Omfg magnet fishing through a corpse, might be OG's next death metal band

[@dylanvaughn3564]

Steel has been the go-to shot for duck hunters because lead shot has been illegal for quite awhile now. I don't think birdshot is large enough to really get a strong magnetic pull on to pull it out of the meat. If I know the meat got hit I just look for the entrance wound and cut around it to avoid any shot or blood clumps

[@assmaster420]

stainless steel is NOT magnetic normally. what scares me is if you forget and shoot steel targets, could be ugly

[@codyrivenburgh7645]

@@dylanvaughn3564 with a good strong magnet you can pull normal size 4s or 2s out of duck breasts....I do it on all my ducks

[@dylanvaughn3564]

@@codyrivenburgh7645 I'll have to give it a try after my next hunt. I almost always use #4 shot

[@Absaalookemensch]

The important question is, did OG pull the trigger or did the shotgun fire itself?

[@COIcultist]

It was an old, hammered shotgun, and he just pulled the hammer back and released it and the shotgun went off. Well on a hammered shotgun that is a damn sight more believable than with a revolver.

[@jaksilver3656]

well, they ARE in California... CLEARLY the shotgun fired itself, and they were just lucky to have gotten out alive...

[@yardkartretreads]

I see what you did there you sly devil

[@rollandpostlethwaite5333]

Maybe they melted down Christine thus ??? Haha

[@jacobforrester9827]

Look up Hickock 45 and how to load a colt single action. There's a reason you only load 5.

[@nickshipley4372]

The waterfowl thing is federal. However it’s typically best to use non lead or coated ammo. The reasoning behind this is as follows: Birds pick up and use rocks to grind and digest their food. Sometimes they pick up lead pellets from shot shells. This grinds tiny particulate lead off of the pellets and poisons the bird.

[@sethmatlock7424]

It’s so eagles don’t eat the lead poisoned ducks and geese supposedly

[@pulaski1]

@@sethmatlock7424 And so humans don't eat lead-tainted fowl either.

[@darkwinter6028]

The lead makes it’s way up the food chain and gets distributed in the environment at large. Even if you don’t directly eat a bird or a predator that in turn ate one, you’re still getting exposed to that lead. Steel is dense enough to be an effective projectile; and with proper frangible design can effectively deliver it’s energy to the target. Not _everything_ California does is stupid.

[@kwakamonkey]

Also banned for waterfowl in the UK. Yes I know most things are banned in the UK. 😉

[@seanperson2032]

It also can saturate the water with lead and means the fish that live nearby to said ducks are also going to be full of lead. There is a push from a couple smaller groups in the fishing world that want to get rid of lead fishing weights in favor of steel, tin, or tungsten, for similar reasons. That lead will make its way into the animals you consume and then you will consume the lead.

[@largelarry2126]

Back in the 60s when I was a little kid my dad worked for Crysler corporation and could get the ball barring's they used in the power steering boxes. We used them in slingshots and for reloading shotshells. For them to work well they had to be loaded very hot and sounded almost like a rifle, they were devastating up close.

[@davidelliott5843]

During the 1930s, my father’s first job was in the Midland Railway “bolt shop”. Back then, they made their own fasteners. He made money shooting rats with a catapult (slingshot) using centre stampings from 3/8 nuts. They punched right through any rat.

[@itsapittie]

I suspect that if these were actually traveling at the advertised 1,700 fps, they would have seriously shredded the targets.

[@jesusisalive3227]

You have to drive steel faster than lead. When they first forced steel on us the factory loads were just lead loads with steel shot and they sucked! Many many birds were wounded because the steel just didn't carry down range like lead. My dad and I started reloading our own steel, we had a 3/4 Oz. Load that was running 1700fps and we started killing birds again. Finally the factories figured out the same thing and almost all steel loads are running at least 1400fps.

[@TheDowntimesfl]

I shoot the winchester 1550 out of a 32" and you can reach out and touch birds if you need to with it. But you do need the extra barrel length to push the rounds quickly.

[@duxdawg]

True about the absolute need for greater speed with steel.

[@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney]

I've always wondered why steel couldn't be alloyed with more dense non-lead metals (maybe tungsten? I'm not a metallurgist) to achieve lead's density without being toxic. Then there would be no real need for lead shot at all, right?

[@noturfather1106]

​@@The_sinner_Jim_Whitneythey have tungsten shot but at 50 bucks for 25 its prohibitive to me buying it

[@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney]

@@noturfather1106 That's not what I'm talking about.

[@captainbravo5562]

The "F18 nose cone" target looked like an illustration of the effectiveness of sloping versus vertical armor on something like a tank.

[@charliemccutcheon6030]

I immediately frowned when I heard that

[@heirofaniu]

But only against full caliber projectiles.

[@jason0870]

Hey you guys probably hear this often, but I wanted to take a second and send you all a sincere note of gratitude. Thank you guys bolth for taking the time out of your days to film, edit, and release these videos out to the channels this and OG Danger show. You guys teach so many people's including myself about different aspects of firearms and ballistics. I truly appreciate it. Thank you all. J from Placer County, N.California

[@OGsDangerShow]

Thanks Jason! Glad you like the show. 😎👍. Stay safe, brother.

[@ronaldmasterbud1551]

I Live Probably around 30 minutes from you.... My Shooting area of almost 40 years Is gone after This Years fires 🔥 .. I'm Old Enough Too Remember the Continus Logging in the Sierra's. Before the smelly hippies shut it down, And in The Proceding 50 years " I " Think there was only Two Bad Fires in Northern California Forests. Ahhhh Progress.

[@Ifoughtpiranhas]

Roseville, Ca. in the house!

[@OGsDangerShow]

@@Ifoughtpiranhas I used to be a Land Park guy when I first got married. Mrs. OG went to McGeroge Law School right there at 12th at Highway 99.

[@AllanDeGroot]

The "Science" on this is subject to question, because metallic lead is not "Bio-Available" as are some lead compounds

[@cyberraxx9268]

Its may not be the same without Danny however he wouldn't want TAOFLEDERMAUS to end just because he's no longer with us.

[@DeAthWaGer]

Danny's smiling that his lead plate is getting smacked 😇

[@dr.froghopper6711]

Hey, Danny inspired me to collect enough wheel weights for a lead plate of my own! Good man, Danny!

[@Evergreen1400]

@@dr.froghopper6711 lmao me too. My lady hates when we are out on walks or bike rides and I stop out of nowhere in the middle of the road to pick up a wheel weight. I’ve been collecting them for about 2 years now and have like 11lbs. I think I want at least 20lbs before I melt it

[@Leroys_Stuff]

Universal battery cable ends also a good source of lead

[@AltGrendel]

Yea, as much as I like OG I miss Danny.

[@CiderRider57]

Greg just can’t resist. If it’s not a finger wiggle, he’s got his balls on a plate. Very credible & I like it.

[@robertf3479]

I always learn something new from you guys, and have fun watching you guys do your thing. Stay safe y'all!

[@taofledermaus]

Thanks 👍

[@bradbortner6982]

OG. Non-toxic ammo for migratory bird hunting has been a Federal Government requirement since around 1990 due to poisoning of birds.

[@ScottKenny1978]

Waterfowl, anyways. I think lead shot is still legal for upland birds.

[@bradbortner6982]

@@ScottKenny1978 You are sorta right. The federal requirement is for waterfowl but many state and federal lands require non-toxic shot for all bird hunting. Steel shot is available (usually) in #6 and maybe #8 for upland gamebird hunting.

[@jamesmills1500]

@@ScottKenny1978 in Canada you have to use non toxic shot for waterfowl or when hunting upland game near wetlands. Otherwise lead is ok. But because of the near wetlands bit I just use non toxic for everything so I don't have to worry if I'm too close to a wetland area since there is no given distance it's up for interpretation so just use non toxic and forget about it

[@basketofdeplorables4253]

@@jamesmills1500they would declare a mud puddle is wetlands. Lol.

[@jamesmills1500]

@@basketofdeplorables4253 in Canada your damn right they would, that's why I just say screw it and use non toxic, and for nearly everything I can think of in the bush upland related it really makes no difference weather I use lead or non toxic. I mean in Northern Ontario I can get close enough to rabbits and grouse to kill them with a stick lol 😆

[@MrChina200]

Wow guys to finally know how deep your steel balls will penetrate the lead plate opposed to the depth achieved by lead buckshot has made my day one of academic success only the Taofledermaus team could teach. All the best from Australia xxx

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Always a hoot hanging out with youins.

[@Jay22222]

Nothing a hoot when the steel birdshot starts to fly.

[@typrus6377]

Youins? Arkansas?

[@dallaspeterson2024]

Youins is the feminine , youuns the masculine!!!

[@namepending155]

Appalachia and Pittsburgh I can attest to hearing Yuns. Pittsburgh is more yinzers (that’s what they call native speakers there).

[@USAUSAM82]

This guy seems familiar 🤔

[@crankygunreviews]

You guys really put your steel balls on the table today. Another fun video thanks

[@Madlintelf]

I came for the entertainment and was not disappointed, OG you are over the top and I love it!

[@OGsDangerShow]

Much appreciated, William. I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. 🤷‍♂️

[@kenibnanak5554]

Given equal mass and velocity I wouldn't expect a big penetration difference until you started pushing 2,300 fps, which is of course out of standard 12 gauge velocity and more into 12 gauge FH territory.

[@travislupum]

I want to see that!

[@randomidiot8142]

I've been thinking the crew needs an overbuilt single shot snipery shotgun to test some of these ideas. Maybe an AR upper?

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@travislupum Google 12 gauge from hell. It;s out there.

[@markmatsushima7356]

Federal made (makes) a “high density” load of tungsten 00 buckshot as an alternative round for no lead hunts. If I remember correctly, it was also a relatively hot load. I wonder how it would do in a head to head comparison with the steel buck? Work related questions like if it can penetrate car doors, soft armor, tires, etc.

[@evelbill1439]

Tungsten is almost as heavy as lead and much harder than steel.

[@Fisherboy0301]

Cool thing about the tungsten buckshot is you can shoot a much smaller pellet, and carry the same energy as a large lead pellet. Size T shot can carry the same energy and penetration as 00B lead, and with a whole lot more in a load, so more on target down range.

[@acros6653]

Tungsten shot trades heaviness in the shell with lightness in the wallet.

[@mathewcarden4474]

I load #tbuck tss in 3 and 3.5 and man they take deer off their feet.

[@dimman77]

@@evelbill1439 Tungsten is SIGNIFICANTLY heavier than lead. 1.7x Nearly double.

[@GodsGladiator]

OG steel bird shot is a federal law. It’s been federal law for waterfowl and coots since like 1979. Especially any of the flyways (Atlantic, Mississippi, pacific, etc). And then any federal wetlands and in Ohio by the lake we have to use non lead slugs when hunting the public marshes for deer even.

[@chronicdose]

You can hunt with lead in new Brunswick. Bordering maine.

[@Justin.Franks]

18:20 _"You can see your future in there"_ Actually, you see yourself a few nanoseconds in the past.

[@bluegizmo1983]

5:48 What are you talking about?! Everyone knows that wearing a bulletproof vest makes you invincible! 🤣

[@frankhinkle5772]

Again, an interesting test. I do appreciate the shot of 9mm carry ammo against the two 12 gauge buckshot loadings.

[@showproja]

A #00 buck pellet is around .33" while a 9mm round is closer to a .36" #000 buck pellet. I'd like to see the test repeated with #000 at the same velocity.

[@vaughanellis7866]

I’d be cautious with hardened steel buckshot as they will have a propensity to ricochet especially if there something like granite or heavy steel plate behind the target.

[@onpsxmember]

I'd be curious how little they care about brush. Buckshot and also slugs lose energy and are safe after some distance in the woods. Sooner or later some genius is going to use them on steel targets indeed. It'll probably be a lot harder on the barrel and choke too.

[@chronicdose]

As long as target is angled and not flat fixed very little chance. I've shot 9mm at angled steel at 5 yards, angle matter tremendously and I'd suspect only if you have deep cavities due to rifle rounds your fine. Always look for catering in your plates...

[@chronicdose]

@@onpsxmember agreed shotguns are insanely safe. You can probably take a chest of buckshot at 125-150yards and survive with minimal injury. Slug doubtful, birdshot probably 75-100 yards. Reason laws allow for closer shotgun shooting the rifles... Not saying that shotguns are weak they will take a chunk off you within effective ranges they are a unique firearm

[@onpsxmember]

@@chronicdose Even with angles and distance and frangible ammo, ask some long term steel challenge guys how often they're hit with fragments.

[@chronicdose]

@@onpsxmember oh I def get l spalling often but not as the shooter it's on angles as spectator.. Why you wear eye pro

[@Boncked]

Depending on target or backdrop I'd worry about ricochets the harder the ball bearing the more the bounce sometimes even more than rubber.

[@bossgrunn775]

In earlier videos they mention how they angle the metal targets, no need for (much) concern

[@ArcaneTinker]

Yeah, I've been on the receiving end of steel shot ricochet. They're like bouncy balls on hard surfaces

[@gregsmith5695]

I was just about ready to call out the ricochet issue when I saw that you already brought it up. Any kid that ever shot a BB at a hard surface figured it out pretty quick. I have considered hand loading ball bearings but have always thought better of it.

[@steveinman6842]

while I was in the Navy, our shipboard security forces used it because it supposedly could bounce off the bulkheads and shoot ricochet shots around corners. That never made sense to me, because they also taught us to identify the target.

[@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney]

I have a friend who recently bought some property adjacent to that which he already owned, upon which stand two old abandoned (but in reasonable shape) houses. Eventually, he'll tear them down, but we've spent a good bit of time shooting various firearms/ammunition varieties in said houses at various targets on the other sides of one or more interior/exterior walls. One of the houses is an old farmhouse (1910s), one is a normal '70s-'80s ranch style with sheetrock, etc. We've been nearly flabbergasted by the ease with which nearly any 'real' firearm can retain dangerous/lethal energy after having penetrated a wall/walls. Since you mentioned walls vs green water, haha!

[@waynesligar5948]

I love laughing at what Greg says. I miss hearing Danny he was funny also

[@warwolfordnance4952]

Can't wait to see the results of our product!!

[@fosterhales1287]

Love your products!! I've got about 70 pounds worth of 12 gauge, most of it is buck shot of course. But hands down my most treasured rounds are my 2000 fps slugs, Rhodesian dragon's breath, double hog and single 3 inch mag, last but not least, those frangible slugs for those pesky deadbolts. Thanks for continuing to provide amazing products to us regular working Joe's.

[@rreeves0710]

Always wondered what hardened pellets would do to stuff. I really wanna see a light lead diabolo type slug with a hardened steel rod in the center of it! I think all you would have to do is get a standard wadcutter diabolo shape, then put a sharpened tool steel rod, then balance it comparatively from the original un-modified slug to keep the weight/balance correct. Bit of an APDS tank round, but the sabot stays with it!!!

[@rreeves0710]

and I mean that it would have more steel than lead, the core would be 75% and the lead would be just a gas check type of thing, say... Like a AUS8 rod about .550 diamiter sitting in an airgun pellet shaped slug.... I miss living next to a gun range. I would experiment with a bunch of weird things. A favorite was a standard foster slug with a threaded back end that was plugged with a cut off bolt and filled with lighter flints! Was fun to freak everyone out while camping. I used to BS and say they were API 12 rounds for the kids that didnt know any better XD

[@someguy2741]

@@rreeves0710 I wonder if you scaled it back a bit and used grade 8 threaded rod for the core. You could then cast a diabolo and drill and thread it for the threaded rod. Then you know they wont separate.

[@OGsDangerShow]

It was fun to test!

[@WhuDhat]

I'd be interested to see these go against a couple gel blocks in series length wise to see just how extreme the penetration is compared to its lead counterpart

[@metocvideo]

Here in the U.K., steel shot has been obligatory if you shoot over water, because wading birds and others can swallow lead shot while feeding. You do not want to shoot steel shot, especially buckshot sizes in any location that has hard surfaces in line of shot, because of the high risk of powerful ricochet.

[@caldaque7354]

My dad is a Maintenance Technician for the postal service and a lot of their sorters use hardened steel ball bearings in the tracks. When these are replaced they would literally throw away hundreds of these bearings. My dad brought some home and we measured them, same size as 00 buck. We started reloading with them because they were free and lead prices have been going higher and higher. They work just fine for putting holes in paper which is what we wanted them for, but I have considered using them as home defense ammo.

[@timothyprice9064]

Just remember steel bounces a lot more than lead.

[@1810jeff]

If you want them really hardened try using a torch to heat them to glowing hot and cool them in ice water and if they don't shatter they're likely hardened better than they've ever been through work hardening.

[@timothyprice9064]

@@1810jeff Why don't you put some glowing hot metal into some ice water, then tell us how it worked out for you?

[@1810jeff]

@@timothyprice9064 So you've never heard of quenching steel? Quenching in water is way safer than quenching in oil, I've quenched knives in water and it's fairly safe.

[@twistedyogert]

@@timothyprice9064 My mother can attest to that. I was using a BB gun in the basement and one of the BBs ricocheted and hit her in the face. Luckily it didn't go into her eye

[@codyrivenburgh7645]

Steel is less dense then lead hence the reason we go up a shot size or 2 while using steel shot for ducks and geese to get more energy.. Also in birdshot steel doesn't always seem to pattern as well as lead...since steal don't deform while going threw cake tubes it will.often pattern tighter then lead in more open chokes...but can often end up with blown out patterns in a true improved modified or full choke...and most manufacturers will warn u not to shoot steal thru there full or xtra full chokes

[@JosephArata]

Steel isn't less dense than lead, it has less mass......

[@codyrivenburgh7645]

@@JosephArata um steel is less dense (lighter then) steel....by roughly 30ish percent less dense.....

[@codyrivenburgh7645]

@@JosephArata just Google is...lead has a density of roughly 11.29 grams per cubic centimeter.......where as mild steel only has a density of 7.75 grams per cubic centimeter....meaning that lead is in fact more dense then steel...... so do your self a favor and simply do a easy Google search before u comment

[@Ak_Ven0m]

I feel like the EP Buckshot could be great on things that are Hard but Brittle. Stuff like Cinderblocks come to mind. I'm curious to see what this does to ballistic gel.

[@johnthomas-km2bf]

You have carried on well guys. Danny would be proud. I certainly am.

[@PeteHemdem]

Your "witness" looks like he's about to testify at Ghislaine Maxwell's trail.

[@oldsarj]

My dad sent a load of birdshot through a wall once and did such a flawless job of patching that my mother went to her grave not knowing about it. Another marriage saved through blissful ignorance.

[@mr.reaper4505]

Never change OG, your humor on these videos are gold!

[@NuanceOverDogma]

No, they are pure cringe

[@cycoholic]

Interesting comparison. The difference in the stated speed of the rounds on the box compared to actual practice reminds me of how the car industry used to understate the horsepower of muscle cars in the 70's.

[@chronicdose]

A lot of fps are at barrel instead of at 7-10 yards with longest barrel possible*. They absolutely claim maximum

[@andrewallason4530]

Most industry speed ratings are from 30-36inch barrels, optimised for development purposes. Most non-competition shotguns,and those used here are in the 18-24 inch range, and will have correspondingly slower speeds. Also goes for rifle and pistol ammo.

[@Ishmaille]

I really don't think it's as deceptive as OG implies. 18 inches is a rather short barrel for a shotgun. Shotguns in particular have low tolerance for pressure, which means projectiles accelerate relatively slowly. You really need a long barrel to get good performance. In general there seems to be a trend of people going with the tiniest barrel possible on all their guns and then making the surprised pikachu face when the bullet comes out at a low speed with a tremendous, wasteful fireball.

[@14goldmedals]

Meph yup they released lower numbers on cars like the Corvette Z06 for insurance purposes to keep premiums down. Everyone knows the 7.0L V8 in a Z06 had way more than 500 HP but Chev saying it was 500 or less made insurance still affordable for a working man.

[@keithsimpson2685]

@@Ishmaille From what I've read in shotguns each inch over 20 adds like 70fps to the shots on average (depends on shell type obvs) and the way to get a closer pattern is almost exclusively through choke not barrel elngth, which mainly effects fps.

[@someguy2741]

Maybe do a complete range of bullets against the lead plate. 22 and up. Also a barrel length comparison so people can see the big difference and then the lack of difference.

[@winterstorm7245]

The magnetic design is used to electronically propel the projectiles up to 1750 using the rail gun effect.

[@joshuaentwistle960]

I'm really enjoying how giddy our boys get when putting sound effects on the slow-mo.

[@bud1014]

I would just like to let you know Jeff, Greg, and the late Danny that I bought myself a short single shot 12 gauge shotgun very similar to "Little Tony" because of your channel. Thank guys

[@OGsDangerShow]

Sweet! Watch out for that recoil!

[@ironwolfF1]

I realize it was a 'quick-n-dirty' video, but the true test targets (IMO) should have been a car door, and some automotive glass (front & side pieces). Frankly, the lighter weight of the shot does _not_ lend itself to hunting (except in a defensive situation, and even then it's inferior to lead shot).

[@zevynozevyn4102]

I may be only 36 years old but I've shot hardened steel buckshot before and regular copper coated steel buckshot I know they make them they're a little rare now I think

[@onpsxmember]

The plated variant is probably easier on the barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if the werwolf stuff is repurposed.

[@fajile5109]

I want to try that super expensive tungston shot.

[@Neutercane]

Hey OG, I think your initial assessment was correct with the 7 hit count with the lead buckshot. The base of that brass slug at 16:39 has been damaged by an impact whereas if you take a close look at 15:24, it's pristine.

[@timharwell6803]

One thing I think I'd like to see tried is iridium buckshot. Iridium is twice the density of lead, so that would seem, at least on paper, more stopping power. Biggest problem is, though, iridium is hella expensive, something like $137 for a .37 gram pellet. If some body put 10-12 of those pellets in a shotshell, would it even work, and if so, what would the ballistics of them be like?

[@jediknight1294]

This looks like a classic example of lead deforming transferring energy vs steel zipping through.

[@Racketeerof89]

IMO defeats the purpose of buckshot. Not really intended to be a penetrator.

[@jediknight1294]

@@Racketeerof89 that's kne of the problems with the lead ban.

[@gigaslave]

@@jediknight1294 Would Gallium work for buckshot? :D

[@jediknight1294]

@@gigaslave is fires fine but it's crap Volume for weight

[@SuperAscension]

I made some similar to that a few months ago using 3/8" steel slingshot pellets

[@Bacteriophagebs]

These are just 5/16" slingshot pellets, that's the only difference.

[@randomidiot8142]

Bulk bags of cheap bearings can be had, might be cheaper than specifically packaged slingshot ammo.

[@RatRatRattyRatRat]

"Lead poisons the unicorns." I want that on a shirt.

[@ScottKenny1978]

Definitely a Taofledermaus merch shirt!

[@simeon24]

It also poisons everything else, including us.

[@zenjon7892]

Maybe Greg ate some paint chips when he was a kid?

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@simeon24 we all die sometime. Pretty sure the idea isn't to arrive at the Pearly Gates with a barely-used body, but to arrive in a power slide completely worn out and saying "damn that was FUN!!!!"

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@zenjon7892 pretty sure everyone of that vintage did, to some extent.

[@garylyons3036]

Thank you guys for showing this buck shot now I know to stay with my 9 36 caliber buck shot lead

[@goldenwheeledbanshee9160]

10/10 on this, believe this best channel on KZbin. Great shooting Greg an great video Jeff.

[@michellewilt4479]

Having bird hunted with both lead and steel, I predict the steel will be underwhelming. I was kind of right. The steel did penetrate slightly more, but not enough to offset the energy transfer. The kevlar test showed exactly what I mean.

[@randomidiot8142]

Push the distance out further and the steel hits the brakes hard. The lead will eventually overtake the steel.

[@shotgunsnmudmowers8167]

Iv made something like this by putting a bunch of small ball bearings in a lowbrass birdshot shells they performed pretty well and did some pretty knarly damage to the target. I bet thies would do great

[@MC-uj4co]

I do the same thing seal it with hot glue get the steel from wal mart sling shot .24 an .38 I use a scale to keep the weight just about the same add a little lead shot to the mix.

[@AdderallXR831]

I've always wondered what would happen if I put ball bearing balls in a shotgun

[@-darrell]

@@AdderallXR831 I think steel shot can damage your barrel/choke. You'd have to do some homework before making your own; I think some manufacturers use a thicker shot cup to minimize contact.

[@handlesarefeckinstupid]

Eating shards of hardened steel and chrome isn't good. Chrome is bad in a human body.

[@loadedwraps7630]

What kind of a target? Two legs? Four? Two wings? None?😎

[@Evergreen1400]

1:58 my guess is it’s going to over penetrate. Most lead 00Buck loads would make it through a human target depending on the range but because the shot is lead I think they would transfer more energy than steel, I’d expect that steel to just zing through stuff.

[@misterfister7262]

Probably for hunting or dangerous game

[@Evergreen1400]

@@misterfister7262. I could see law enforcement possibly having a use for it since they have to shoot into vehicles more than civilians because lead buckshot doesn’t do very good at getting into cars they lose a majority of their energy getting through the door

[@timexkills65]

@@Evergreen1400 it’s good when you need it

[@AnarchAngel1]

It's not as dense as lead though...

[@gothiclycan2890]

I'm surprised you didn't mention that one of the lead buckshot had hit the big brass slug that was still embedded in the plate, making a total of 7 that hit, rather than 6.

[@vossierebel]

The applications of steel balls? Shiny... saves on polishing lead balls!!🤣🤣

[@sski]

That was great how the steel shot left the inside bottom of the holes on the lead plate so shiny it looked like they were lodged inside them. I thought they were still in there until you said you found them scattered around the plate. Then I saw the slow-mo.

[@austinkuipers6087]

The 118gr xtreme penetrators in a 6" barrel sig would be interesting, 1600-ish fps from a solid copper .355 slug compared to the slower shot. .31 ball bearings are less than 40 grains.

[@joshuazoldschool4720]

Doesn't matter what you guys send downrange,lead,steel,brass or turds of varrying degrees of hardness and/or density Truth be told, corn or no corn, rock hard constipation style pellets or fresh out the ass wet an greasy ones that barely hold their shape until vaporizing right before moment of impact... Oh ya, the all important fact I was trying to point out...is that it's You two fellas always deliver top notch content, and whether the humor comes screaming in "hi brow", Or barely above sub-sonic "low brow" It's the genuine spirit of adding humor and entertainment involving the much miligned and often hated and misunderstood nature of firearms and their uses, makes these valuable and worthy of our praise. And Praise you shall receive...from this viewer at least! Another great job fellas. And if any other strange, unique and/or possibly hazardous materials arrive via the mail or delivery service.. Then stuff it in a shell and send it, along with more laughs, right here for me and your other great subscribers to enjoy without the slightest concern about the after episode site clean-up issues that must come up time and again. Stay safe and Prosper fellas🤞😜

[@AA-fg3wj]

.31 cal is single O buckshot. Steel is hard but lacks the weight of Lead and Tungsten. Tungsten buckshot is the absolute best penetrating shotgun pellets on EARTH!

[@mattfleming86]

I approve of your username, your picture, AND your comment.

[@marvinsauer8493]

I miss Danny. Hopefully you will continue with quality program, Danny would have wanted it that way Let’s go Brandon. I ducked even in my living room when you shot the hardened steel against the lead plate. You must not have had a BB gun as kids? Steel against hard surface is how many a young man has lost an eye. I am old enough to remember when all cans were steel. Shooting BBs into steel can was sure way to lose an eye. Careful with steel projectiles, they will get you.

[@Jake-Jake]

I have thought about that for a while, loading a shot shell with steel ball bearings, (yes you would need some kind of wad cup to protect the barrel) my thought is it would penetrate more

[@ScottKenny1978]

Will lose energy faster as it flies, though.

[@fajile5109]

You can do that on a shotgun turns it into a musket tho.

[@bronsontolliver9027]

@@fajile5109 I use .68 caliber steel ball bearings. Cut the crimp off the top a birdshot shell. It should snug into the cup. I'm running an IC choke.

[@Bacteriophagebs]

That's literally what they did here. Those are just 5/16 inch steel ball bearings. They're sold as slingshot ammo, though it's one of the less-common sizes.

[@itsapittie]

I don't remember where I read it (it was a long time ago), so take it for what it's worth, but I've read that steel shot typically makes a larger pattern than lead shot. Presumably, that's because the two pellets have the same surface area but the lead has a greater sectional density, so it overcomes air resistance a bit better than steel shot. They recommended stepping up one increment in choke size; i.e., if you would normally use a cylinder bored barrel, try one in improved cylinder. I haven't personally tried this, but it would be interesting to do some pattern size comparisons.

[@dudenoway1267]

OG was originally correct at 7 lead buckshot on the lead plate, the 7th hit what ever was buried in the one hole on the right.

[@brianhall23]

I've made similar shells for my .410 using steel ball bearings so it is interesting to see how these did.

[@martenkrueger8647]

I make them for my 16 gauge side by side...what do you think? Would this be a problem with over penetration..home defense! I do not know how to determine..i could only find slug and bird shot for 16 so i made 00 steel shells.

[@randomidiot8142]

@@martenkrueger8647 I'd dare say the lower density will curb penetration even with a higher starting velocity. It's like shooting ping pong balls vs golf balls. The shot manufacturers data and real world experience bears this out. Up close it'll be effective ie indoors but when the ranges get longer it falls on its face. Not a bad use case for steel honestly.

[@prjndigo]

Prediction: boomstick go boom Had a boss who had a .22 pistol specifically for "drilling holes" in some special really thick tar goop shingles. It worked very very well and left a soot coating. The problem was that nails would bind up on the webbing inside and pucker the stuff into the boards they were being put on. So we'd just put a 2x4 behind where we needed the nail holes and bang-bang. Ahh the '90's

[@Fuzzwankthebear]

So a ramset? Lol

[@ScottKenny1978]

"powder actuated drill"

[@fajile5109]

@@Fuzzwankthebear no a powder actuated throwing saw.

[@DeanMk1]

I think the hardened buckshot's forte may be as an "anti-material" load, because although the pellets are lighter than the lead pellets they're harder and hold their shape better, thus forcing the target to deform (or maybe "distort" is a better descriptive?) more. I think this shows best when you guys shot the lead plate and the metal cone.

[@toddy2519]

According to the nice folks at Lyman, steel shot should be at least twice the size of lead shot you normally use.

[@kczcb4697]

Saw og’s new band ‘greg vs math’ at a festivus show last year. Great time

[@UI_Shaggy05]

Without Danny, this channel will never be the same again!😢💔

[@3870TheDad]

Since steel won't deform when accelerated by the mass accelerator, it should be more accurate. Will it penetrate better? We'll see.

[@ruizhou9612]

I been loading #4 steel buck #0 steel buck and #0000 steel buck. I used slingshot ammo and loaded it to make a defense round the 0000 is paired with #4. Problem was finding components to stick with load guide tables. I found the mix 0000 + #4 round works better with BP #47 buffer for accuracy. I played with a few wads, most hulls used were straight walled Chedditte, Rio, Fiocchi and Federal. 3" worked best. I used clear OS cards and roll crimped like you guys do. Powders centered around 4 brands. I would like to use a bush wad and mylar wrap combo next. Good videos keep em coming

[@victorsutpheniii3374]

Interesting. What components and powder have you found to pattern the best so far?

[@xeroinfinity]

i like steal shot when hunting small game. i used to reload shells w/3~4mm steal ball bearings. it makes it easier to find (with a magnet) when you're cleaning them. i sure hate breaking a tooth on lead shot i missed in my rabbit or squirrel dinner.

[@camojoe83]

Haha that intro to this one.. we need that quote on some merch.. A picture of some random object with a hole in it and "Oooh, Listen to that 'ding'!" Idk why that's hilarious to me, but it is.. Too bad there isn't a font of OGs voice, that would fkn totally make it.

[@GetMeThere1]

Actually, I've looked for steel buckshot, thinking that it might be a superior self-defense load because it would be LESS likely to penetrate through multiple walls. IMO we actually need WEAKER buckshot loads for people to use for home defense -- loads which will address the issue of over-penetration through walls.

[@pitchforkpeasant6219]

Nice thing about real black powder use for shotgun shells, way adjustable in velocity. And full brass is awesome. Just have to clean after shooting them absolutely. And using cork for wads is nicer than dealing with plastic hulls

[@gabrielbelouche3954]

I think steel buckshot can easily bounce back from hard surfaces.

[@Cammi_Rosalie]

With the lead shot, seven of them did hit the target. During the 9mm shot I looked at the brass round embedded from before. After the lead shot, the brass round was damaged. Slo-mo confirms. Love the content. Keep doing what you do.

[@herbertgearing1702]

I appreciate the scientific knowledge from the og re green water density, but I had always assumed that red was the most dense water. You know because "blood is thicker than water". So I learned something today. Of course after it's hit it becomes blew water.

[@maxialart]

Greetings from Germany! You TAO-Fledermäuse-folks are just awesome! You are one of the funniest, relaxing and also inquisitive gun shows I've found so far. Love that you test stuff from all over the world: Russia, Norway, Aussies... perfect for binge watching on a rainy afternoon. See Justin Bieber flying from ballistic gel to classical music makes me chuckle every time. Keep rocking!

[@taofledermaus]

thank you!

[@joebi-wan-kenobi5069]

Have you guys experienced any sort of barrel or forcing cone damage from shooting hardened objects through the bores? I've seen your videos on the .68 cal hardened ball bearings, and now these have peaked my interest. I understand its not steel-on-steel in the bore because of the shot cup, but the fact that the projectiles are harder than the barrel makes me uneasy lol.

[@ericc3327]

The bigger concern is bridging at the forcing cone, causing barrel bulge. Scoring is non ideal but modern wads are pretty good.

[@blantant]

My thoughts exactly. I understand they're in the cup but this makes me uneasy. Perhaps a layer of powder coat or hitek would ease my mind but I think in reality there is no difference

[@joebi-wan-kenobi5069]

@@blantant I, admittedly against my better judgment, made some of my own hardened steel ball bearing loads with one large 16mm ball bearing. I inferred that with one bearing there would be a fairly even distribution of force around the circumference of the ball and against the cones. After shooting about 20 through a very inexpensive shotgun and thoroughly inspecting the cones, I don't see any signs of anything deforming or chipping. In this case however, we're dealing with multiple pellets. As will all shot, the shot expands against the walls of the bore when under intense acceleration. You can see this in shot wads recovered on the ground as they have dimples in the pedals on the walls of the cup. Maybe something like this could happen here, but with much more adverse effects as the shot is harder than the bore. Hopefully not, and everything I've just said is nonsense lol.

[@ericc3327]

I've seen some experiments with shooting several hundred (500+) steel duck rounds through a hundred year old gun that definitely wasn't rated for steel. Maybe some very minor scoring inside. Not going to try it with my 120 year old double myself though, so not sure what that's worth lol.

[@ScottKenny1978]

Don't think it was Taofledercrew, but I have seen *ugly* damage to a barrel from milsurp flechette rounds.

[@normanwitzler9665]

I would like to see how tungsten shot performs since it is 1.7 times denser than lead and 5 times harder than tool steel.

[@Honestreview-om5hx]

Lots of ricochets lol

[@guitarplaya68]

If you look closely at the slow-motion, you’ll see that the steel pellet breeches the stainless… but doesn’t pass through. It bounces off.

[@Bacteriophagebs]

So they loaded 5/16 inch steel slingshot ammo into a shotshell. Revolutionary!

[@davidrdanner4232]

Nice sound effects Jeff...I will stick with hard cast 00 Buckshot , thanks guys good video !

[@formdoggie5]

I think the main problem with steel buck is it isn't going to deform as much, and that seems like it would cause a loooooooooooooooooooooooooot more risk of it coming back to you.

[@davidgoodnow269]

Back in the 1980's the Army ran the Close Assault Weapon System contest, which H&K won. Theirs was a 10-gauge/20mm, higher pressure than regular shotgun rounds by at least double. US went with Teflon-coated hardened steel 000 for antipersonnel and depleted uranium slugs for anti-personnel-carrier. The West Germans adopted it with flechettes, a six-foot pattern at one hundred yards giving a dart every hand span throughout the pattern.

[@SomePoserStoleMyName]

Why steel instead of lead. When you shoot an animal with lead don’t and fail to recover that animal it becomes a meal for scavengers. Including vultures, eagles and other raptors. Raptors are highly susceptible to lead poisoning. One lead pellet is enough to kill even a large raptor quickly.

[@jerrybenetatos5614]

Did you notice that one of the steel buckshot hit the center of the 9mm hole on the lead plate?

[@jeffjankiewicz5100]

Mr. Bear wants to fly. Use the same setup, but see how 2oz pkg of tannerite and a supersonic round gets Mr. Bear his wish. lol. Love the content Jeff and OG.

[@a-a-ronbrowser1486]

Now that the dummy has a really fitting name, I’ll enjoy the hits even more

[@joescalet6130]

The Navy Shore Patrol used steel shot for prisoner guard details. They guard was instructed to shoot for the legs to stop a prisoner from escaping. The steel shot was easier to pick out of the wound. I had a case of 12 gauge steel shot that my father brought home.

[@Ilovethedeepsea]

Weird flex but ok

[@jaydunbar7538]

Legs are a lethal shot so if they were told to do that then whoever told them it is a moron. Higher risk of missing and a ruptured artery is lights out anyway so the risk/reward is not in favor of such a maneuver.

[@joescalet6130]

This was during WWII.

[@jaredquainton9148]

People called me crazy when I took the ball bearing out of every dead paint marker. I was on an assembly line where everyone killed 1.5 markers in a shift. I just kept grabbing dead markers. Had a few friends bringing them to me. Still have them. Would love to load them.

[@gotindrachenhart]

I assume you're talking about the ball in a paint ban? I only ask because in the sport of paintball the correct term to use instead of paintball gun is "paintball marker" or just marker for short.

[@gunna2cool]

Fantastically entertaining as always and yes, the balls deep joke needed to finally be said. I tip my hat, sir. 👍

[@gatesmw50]

gunna2cool Also as he says in the video 5 out 0f 10 is ALMOST 50% LOL!

[@mmnnra55]

Oh my God Greg is the best... Don't poison the unicorns... LMFAO 😂😂😂😂

[@robertkelley3437]

In the terms of velocity, the manufacture is shooting downhill, in a vacuum with a tail wind.

[@TTiger86268]

Won't be the same but Danny is looking down guiding your shots and I'm sure smiling every time you fire a round.

[@mattfleming86]

I'd like to see these projectiles with fewer count, and more juice to get the velocities waay up.

[@Nachtmahr79]

Harder and less dense material like steel results in higher muzzle velocities and better penetration at closer ranges - the steel doesn´t deform like lead and is therefore not able to dump as much energy into the target. But: lighter pellets tend to loose their initial velocity much faster due to air resistance. A longer range test would have been interesting, to see at wich point the steel gets outperformed by the lead, penetration-wise. ....on the other hand: 00Buck is not exactly meant to be a sniper round, so in the range it is supposed to work, it won´t really matter.

[@randomidiot8142]

Wonder what flite control would do for this. It sheds velocity fast and keeping the shot together as long as possible would increase it's rapidly deteriorating effectiveness at range, no?

[@dominicwroblewski5832]

The steel buckshot may in fact be rejected ball bearings that were purchased for scrap value. The wider spread of the shot could be explained by the shot not having a concentric center of mass. The shot does seem to hardened like a ball bearing would be.

[@tymz-r-achangin]

I been using (x3) 3/8" chromium ball bearings in my .410 shotgun loads for quite some time now. Was actually cheaper to buy a 2,000 bulk-pack of the ball bearings than it was to buy slugs or lead shot. Aside from cost savings, it goes without saying that 3 ball bearings does a lot more damage than a single slug and lead bb's

[@MtnBadger]

Hey, O.G., it's me again. I've found that 9 pellet shot shells tend to force a flyer almost every round that goes outside the desired target "ring" where an 8 shot configuration tends to stay well grouped so, I predict that the 10 shot count shells will also stay better grouped. Post-o-facto, I think the steel holds "ok" but would do well in a beanbag round, having less recoil impulse and hitting effectively yet not quite as hard as the lead. Just an observation.

[@pulaski1]

I had expected poor grouping from the steel shot - steel ball bearings are quite bouncy when they hit a hard surface, including another steel surface, whereas lead shot is _not,_ so any contact between the steel pellets will cause the shot to separate - potentially causing _both_ pellets to spread out of the pattern.

[@MtnBadger]

@@pulaski1 That makes sense as the lead tends to "conform" to each other and the barrel rather then trying their damndest to get away from each other. I think they're probably best at limited range, under 20 and preferably 15yds to get the full effect (which is fine within the house). Don't recoil quite as hard, probably hit 8" pie plate size at 15. I just don't want to get shot with any of it. lol

[@TheMikeyDude1]

Is there a plan to cast/re-cast more lead plates in the future?

[@Jay22222]

The lead plate has so many slugs cast into it from re-casting. It was something Danny did and hasn’t been re-cast since he passed but Jeff has the TFM branding iron and the rest of the casting equipment so I expect it to soon? Unless he decides to cast a second maybe?

[@andrewvida3829]

My stepfather was the inventor/patent holder for steel shot. We had bags and bags of steel bearings in the house, as well a enough powder to blow up a post office. The US Army did a rather involved study to determine the effective utility of steel shot back ca. 1968. I had a copy of it, but it's long gone. I do recall penetration studies through windshields, car doors, and other barriers. One of the positive discoveries related to riot control on hard surfaces such as concrete, where the shooter looses a round 10-15 or so feet in front of the target. The steel, rather than flattening like lead, simply bounces, with the pattern flattening and dispersing laterally. They also shot engine blocks and IIRC, there was penetration into the water jackets on smaller engines, and carburetors were rather neatly wrecked by steel shot. My step dad loaded 000, 00, #4, #7, and #9. The buck could be tough on the barrel if send through without a wad. A friend lit one off and his bore showed denting, though I recall not having inspected the bore prior, so it may already have been dented.