How Curt Schilling's Mouth kept him out of Cooperstown

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Curt Schilling was a star postseason performer for the Phillies, Diamondbacks, and Red Sox. But his Hall of Fame level pitching career has fallen short when it came time to vote. Schilling's political rants on Twitter have gotten him fired off ESPN, and his failed business venture turned the entire state of Rhode Island against him.
MUSIC: • How Curt Schilling's M...
0:00 Intro
2:17 Curt's Career
14:15 Post-Playing Controversy
16:59 Hall of Fame Snub?

[@ryanberner04]

I don’t get why Curt Schilling is left out of the hall of fame for his political views, but guys like Rogers Hornsby were literally in the KKK and got in no problem

[@wingracer1614]

He's not out for his political views. He's out because that is what he asked for. He would have gotten in if he hadn't demanded to be left off in his last year. The veterans committee will put him in

[@ryanberner04]

@@wingracer1614 he should have been an easy first ballot hall of famer. Clearly they were keeping him out for a reason, and that reason certainly wasn’t his play on the field

[@MetFanMac]

Well, Slugger, I'm no genius political analyst but I think the reason Mr. Hornsby got elected to the Hall of Fame despite (purportedly) being a KKK member is the fact that it happened in nineteen hundred and forty two.

[@fromulus]

There are so many obvious explanations for why this is the case.

[@ryanberner04]

@@MetFanMac that’s a great point, but that shouldn’t take away from the fact that the KKK sought out to cause physical harm to a lot of people, while Curt Schilling was, albeit extremely, expressing his beliefs

[@i.hold.vertigo2329]

Coming from a hockey perspective, I often hear "it's not the Hall of Good People". Our community just had the loss of Bobby Hull, a HOF player who was important in evolving how players shot the puck. Off ice he was an incredibly awful person but he was never stripped of HOF status for it. There's a difference between acknowledging a player's career accomplishments and lionizing them. Bobby Hull was never celebrated publicly by the NHL after the extent of his behavior was known. But no one ever downplayed his skill and impact. I think a middle ground is possible.

[@tyrjilvincef9507]

Also, Curt Schilling is a way better person than most people and his political views are correct. He is a better person than literally every Hall of Fame voter.

[@thomasjcox]

There is a big difference between somebody who committed assault and battery and somebody who was a republican.

[@chrisbartolini1508]

@@thomasjcox Yeah, we really have to stop dehumanizing our political opponents to the point in which their views are considered on par with criminal behavior. That’s literally how genocides happen.

[@estellegrignon]

My best guess is that the extent of Hull's off-ice behaviour wasn't as well known when he was inducted. Meanwhile, a guy like Theo Fleury would probably be in the Hall of Fame already if it wasn't for his own troubled off-ice life. The same could be said for Ciccarelli, who waited eight years to get in mostly because of his own trouble with the law. Both players, however got through these things during their playing career - I'd even argue Ciccarelli wouldn't be included today in a post-Me Too world.

[@BuzzworthyMedia]

@@tyrjilvincef9507 Yeah........no.

[@Il_Exile_lI]

One thing about the 38 Studios situation that was left out. 38 Studios didn't make Kingdoms of Amalur Reckoning themselves. Big Huge Games was a game studio owned by THQ that was working on a single player RPG behind lead designer Ken Rolson, formerly of Bethesda Game Studios. In 2009, THQ was in seriously financial trouble (which would eventually lead to their bankruptcy) and were looking to unload some of their assets, including Big Huge Games. Meanwhile, progress on 38 Studios' MMO was going slowly, so they bought Big Huge Games with intent of having something they could release sooner. The Ken Rolston led RPG project was then reworked to incorporate the lore of 38 Studios' MMO and eventually released as Kingdoms of Amalur Reckoning. When 38 Studios went under, they took Big Huge Games with them, adding more casualties to Schilling's poor business decisions.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I originally had a more in depth explanation of this in the script. Also had more on Schilling’s beef with RI governor Lincoln Chafee

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

And it was actually a good game, just didn't have the marketing power behind it to sell well which sucks tbh

[@foramoreperfectamerica8490]

Kingdoms of Amalur is really good, despite Curt being a shitty person himself, but then again, he didn't write it Todd McFarlane did.

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

@@foramoreperfectamerica8490 well yea he didn't go to school for 6 yrs for game design he just owned the company and helped direct it lol

[@Il_Exile_lI]

@@foramoreperfectamerica8490 Todd McFarlane's name mostly attached for marketing purposes. He's credited as Executive Art Director pretty low in the credits. The hands on lead art positions were all filled by Big Huge Games staff. As for writing, Todd McFarlane is not credited for any writing. The Principal Narrative Designer & Writer was Erik J. Caponi of Big Huge Games, with fantasy author RA Salvatore credited with worldbuilding.

[@brianchua4240]

You hit the nail on the head with this one. You may not like him since he was in Boston and you root for the Yankees. You may not like him since he's a conservative and you're on the left. But his performance on the field should be enough for him to get into the HOF. He was big game for a reason. 11-2 in the playoffs with a 2.23 ERA and 120 K's in 19 appearances? Man.

[@Bc232klm]

I don't dislike him because he's conservative, I dislike him because he's a racist, bigoted, clown who shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

[@alwillk]

He’s fringe. He has 0 cy young’s and only 6 all star seasons. I think he is right on the cusp of being a HOF.

[@chrispmeme]

​@@alwillk you can't use # of cy young's or AS seasons as an indicator. With that logic, nolan ryan shouldn't be in the HOF bc he has 0 CYs and only 8 AS seasons.

[@MetFanMac]

A total of thirteen pitchers since 1900 have maintained an ERA+ over 140 and a FIP- under 70 for a stretch of seven consecutive years. Curt Schilling is one of them. The other twelve are HOFers (Waddell, Koufax, Mathewson, Maddux, Pedro, Walter and Randy Johnson), are going to the HOF (Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale) or have been excluded by the HOF due to steroid use (Clemens, Brown). Pitchers in the HOF with zero Cy Young Awards and less than six All-Star Team selections (since both were instituted): Phil Niekro (5xAS), Bert Blyleven (2xAS), Mike Mussina (5xAS), Don Sutton (4xAS), Jim Kaat (3xAS).

[@travisrowe7697]

This is exactly right. Google Kirby pucketts heinous acts. Not to mention MANY other examples of truly evil guys making the HOF. Sad that this era of media is so selfish and political.

[@WhatHappenedtoBaseball]

Surely Curt never bankrupted a company

[@foramoreperfectamerica8490]

He started 38 Studios and they went bankrupt.

[@DanDanThePhillie]

@@foramoreperfectamerica8490 that is the joke good sir

[@foramoreperfectamerica8490]

@@DanDanThePhillie I apologize sarcasm doesn't always translate well on the internet.

[@toastedt140]

@@foramoreperfectamerica8490 and dont call him shirley

[@foramoreperfectamerica8490]

@@toastedt140 Lol

[@nates5703]

I'm going to guess that pretty much every player active before, say, 1995 had controversial political opinions by today's standards.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I’m gonna say a good 30-40% of active players do, too. But they don’t spend their whole day on twitter expressing them, either.

[@RustCole01]

@@AndThatsBaseball This is such a bizarre concept to have to explain to ppl nowadays. Announcing your unfiltered opinions to people isn't necessarily admirable, just because it is what you truly believe. I could tell some of my female coworkers what I truly think about their beautiful rear-ends but that would not end well. There are ways to express your opinions without being super provocative or hostile. But I'm from Boston, so I give him a pass anyway. Let him in.

[@drewskij2175]

Speech is free and political speech even more so and free w/o consequences. If someone doesn't like that fact well it wouldn't be Schilling that's the problem, the person looking in the mirror is. Agree with his speech or not, he never threatened anyone, offended yes, but not directly threatened and being offended is not a problem with speech, it's an issue with the offended.

[@DavidDykes-dm9lc]

How about we talk about his performance on the field, man was CLUTCH!!!

[@_kosciuszko3474]

As a Yankee fan who grew up in the 2000s I can confirm that Curt Schilling was the bane of my childhood. As much as I hate to admit it, Curt should be in the Hall of Fame although I don't think he will.

[@susanmenegus5543]

As a Yankee fan I agree 💯.

[@ItIsYouAreNotYour]

His "dangerous" political views over-power the obvious. You bet if it was the other way around, he would probably have his own holiday.

[@christophermcclain1835]

@@ItIsYouAreNotYour Ok, do you have an example? Or are you just saying things?

[@nautgamingnautgaming9949]

@It'sYou'reNotYour Stupid disagree I would have voted against him for bloody sock AND the steroids he took I don't think arod braun or anyone caught with steroids deserves to be in Cooperstown I can care less if he's a raging leftist or a Trump supporter or a McConnell type in the middle We're talking about baseball and judging by actions

[@timdecoursey287]

@@ItIsYouAreNotYourhe said journalists should be lynched, you silly goose. What’s the opposing view of that?

[@HeySalina]

"Take a second to guess which industry bankrupted Schilling..." Me, clueless, eating handfulls of Cheez-Its: "Mmnn.. Cryptooo"

[@SONICX1027]

As a Rhode Island native, Curt Schilling and 38 Studios is the bane of our existence

[@AndThatsBaseball]

All the B roll I got for that part was from one local station. They’ve ran like dozens of packages about 38 studios, I don’t think people realize just how big of a deal it was there

[@reggiejenkins6458]

You should be mad at your politicians who made the loan with your money and took the risk, not the company that did their best and failed.

[@travisrowe7697]

Your state was the dummies who made that investment. Who would’ve ever made that investment lol? Stooges. That’s who.

[@mateom1875]

Reddit is down the hall and to the left

[@johnnycarter2283]

I agree with Curts views

[@TuriSanchez3]

Should do one about David Ortiz being on the Mitchell report but still getting into the HOF while others like clemens and bonds aren't in while being so much better players than David Ortiz. It's ridiculous no one ever brings up his dirty past just cuz he's from Boston and liked by the media total hypocrisy

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Everyone loves big Papi, everyone hates Sammy Sosa. Same level of PED evidence, similar level of performance (Sosa better regular season, Ortiz elite postseason), but the beloved one was in first ballot and the hated one never had a chance.

[@edwardmoulaison1359]

@@AndThatsBaseball also: Bonds arguably the biggest prick to play in the big leagues and arguably the greatest ever to play in the big leagues... left out.

[@andrewgrove1691]

Having a great personality with the media gets you in the hall of fame.

[@coolguy02536]

Ortiz wasn't in the MR (same with Sosa/McGwire/Manny/A-Rod) nor did getting named in the MR automatically make you guilty, since not all of the cases had sufficient evidence. Obviously it looks better for Ortiz since he claimed to have only taken vitamin supplements while the rest of those guys either admitted to doping or got suspended for it.

[@Cynthionic]

I think given some of the people that are in the HOF keeping people out for non performance reasons is 100% a double standard and while it is hard to support Schilling he totally deserves to be in the hall

[@johnreesekl6249]

@cynthionic6821 Good point, and it does appear to be a double standard. But, I think it could also be that with more media exposure, and changing times, the standard to get into the Hall also changes (for right or wrong). Both points are not mutually exclusive--they can both be true. I agree, from things that happens within the chalk, there are many players that belong in the Hall of Fame: Pete Rose, Clemens, Bonds, Schilling, etc. It is true, there appears to be a double standard, when Ty Cobb is in as a avid known racist, but others are not, just for their views or off-field (enhancing) practices. I am not one of those moralist that says steroid abusers should be barred, either. Too be honest, I think probably 90% of the league was abusing.

[@iamskippy]

Well said. *However he also seems like the kind of person who would see an outspoken Liberal baseball player with HOF numbers and likely say:* 👤🗯️ *”You can’t kneel during the anthem and be in the HOF! That’s unamerican so cry your snowflake tears anywhere but Cooperstown.”*

[@egbduf]

@@iamskippy He is an awful human

[@DanielSong39]

It's like they keep Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (and a few others) out while inducting Ivan Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr., Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Jim Thome, and David Ortiz Many, many people have not missed the double standard

[@terronymusbraddock2350]

​@johnreesekl6249 I'm sorry, but your information on Ty Cobb is way off. Probably not intentionally, your knowledge comes from Sports Journalism's greatest liar -- Al Stump.

[@jaymoon5906]

Best big game pitcher of his era

[@cardboardglory3612]

Actually that would be Andy Pettitte.

[@josephsarto689]

Andy pettite? The pitcher who started gane 6 of the 2001 WS with the Yankees up 3 games to 2 and ended up losing 15-2. The same pitcher who lost game 5 of the 2003 WS. Doesn’t sound like a big game pitcher at all

[@SheepofChrist818]

Roger Clemens in 2nd place.

[@BaseballAF]

I just remember him in Backyard Baseball 2001, with an absolutely riveting story about Alaska. Even in that game he would talk way longer than he should have. But he's definitely a Hall of Famer too

[@fredfrederickson]

Legendary game

[@andrewbernard1911]

🤣🤣those games are my childhood, also as a red sox fan he certainly does

[@firstandlastnames8308]

The hall of fame should be about what you did on the field, period.

[@briancalifornia1]

The hall of fame has become a joke there are players who shouldn't even be there and players that should be there are not there.

[@allan6453]

I think Curt Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame. His play on the field should definitely get him into the hall of fame. I don't think he should be kept out of the Hall of Fame because of his political views or what he's done off the field. His play on the field should be what voters are looking for. Now, I'm not old enough to vote so maybe I'm underestimating the importance of political views, but I still think voters should be looking at a players baseball career, not their political ideas or their off the field controversy.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I think it’s up to the individual voters to decide. He still got sooooo close to making it in year 8 and 9, but a few things he said were just a little too far. I would’ve voted for him, though.

[@allan6453]

@@AndThatsBaseball I guess that makes sense.

[@wingracer1614]

His views have nothing to do with it. He's not in because his career numbers are way below what is standard for a hall of fame pitcher. Despite that, he would have gotten in if he hadn't demanded to be left off. That's on him, no one else.

[@dash_r_media]

@@wingracer1614 That's a flat out lie about his career numbers

[@kevincornell1439]

@@AndThatsBaseball if he spewed hate full left wing talking points he would be in. and that is literally 90% of left wing talking points.

[@nb_nic]

I definitely agree Curt should be in, but I think it's very much his own fault that he's not. I think if he didn't ask writers not to vote for him in his last year he might have gotten in despite actively advocating for the deaths of the voters lol

[@Gemnist98]

Exactly. He was literally only a few votes away. Had he just not said anything, the writers would have not said “Okey-dokey!” and omitted him from their ballots. I hate the fickleness of the BBWAA as much as the next guy, but this was clearly all on Curt.

[@Channel-23s]

I mean if they made him wait his last year what says they change there mind he was tired of waiting and the disrespect tbh so it’s understandable

[@andrejamison2723]

@@Gemnist98 but it shouldn't have even gotten there.

[@KazeShikamaru]

He would have!

[@LouieKaboom]

Yeah, and you're not explaining that whole thing in context.

[@digitalfootballer9032]

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I think Pete Rose should also be in the hall of Fame. Yeah, yeah he broke the rules by gambling on games, but he did only bet on his own team and never threw games. Yes, still against the rules, but I think could have been forgiven by now.

[@HanZhang]

Curt Schilling is a clown, but keeping him out of the hall would also be a clown move.

[@brianmouland209]

Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle were falling down alcoholics but are in the Hall

[@marcstevens8576]

Curt Was Not Pete Rose. After his playing career, he was an awful business man with his videogames failure & his public view of politics. Who cares? All of this happened after his playing career. Sure, he played on the same team as Pedro & Wakefield, but, like them, he put up the numbers. So, where did he go wrong during his playing career??

[@gavinrector6505]

I agree Curt is an idiot and in my opinion I don’t agree with his views but I think it should be judged on his play not what he believes in. I really don’t like him but he should be in as a Red Sox fan

[@cococock2418]

Imagine calling him a clown. Just say you’re a leftist clown.

[@fortynights1513]

Good video today. Suggestion: Break down the biggest differences between the baseball reference and fangraphs versions of WAR, and in particular for pitchers, and catchers, and what kind of players would appear better in each formula.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I’d fall asleep just doing research for this not gonna lie. There’s some other great KZbinrs who do videos like this, but I prefer more narrative based videos

[@fortynights1513]

@@AndThatsBaseball If your objective is tell more of a story, then I could see why that wouldn’t be something you’d be interested in making a video on. For the record, I became curious about this when I looked up Dave Stieb and Jack Morris’s career WAR’s on baseball reference and fangraphs and found that Stieb’s career WAR on fangraphs is basically where Morris is on baseball reference, and vice versa.

[@jaymoon5906]

States alone are for idiots winning with numbers is more important

[@KidFresh71]

What MadBum accomplished in the postseason, no one will equal.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

The 2014 World Series was surreal to watch, I may have to talk about it sometime

[@KidFresh71]

@@AndThatsBaseball please do a video on it! Bochy changed the entire way post-season baseball pitching staffs can be deployed. Groundbreaking manager and tactician- and Bumgarner was up for the challenge!

[@SIGuy7480]

your videos just keep getting better

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Thanks!

[@TheLocalLt]

Besides the corked bat incident with Albert Belle, Jason Grimsley was also one of the first players, and the first pitcher, confirmed as a steroid user.

[@MalikIsmailAliRaymond]

Incredibly spot-on. I was thinking that you would bring up Mariano Rivera, as I was instantly thinking about him, and far as US football goes, Tony Dungy (which was not news to people who have been following these people for yeras), people who hold similar views to Curt Schilling (and all of them are evangelical Christians with strongly right-wing views), but are generally beloved by the general public, and the media at large, because of their inoffensive demeanor. It is somewhat akin to how former players who have ties to PEDs still being elected into the Baseball HOF because they are beloved by the media, while others aren't e.g., Ortiz contrasted to Sosa. If you are on the good side of the media, you will be rewarded for it. Maybe he will get in by the players' committee, and he would prefer that anyway, as you stated. I haven't followed baseball as much in the past decade to be honest, so I was surprised to learn that Curt Schilling is an avid gamer 😶😶 Watched several of your vids but I will definitely subscribe now. Thanks for posting this!!

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Glad you enjoyed

[@CC-jl7jz]

And I would add that just because you have faith in a higher power and believe in traditional values does not mean you are "right wing" America was founded on these ideas and principles and it's what made us the greatest nation in the history of the world.

[@a1gamer561]

I get he’s said a lot of dumb shit but if we are going on only on the field play then he’s definitely a hall of famer

[@doctorhayo7976]

Let's see you refute anything Curt has ever said.

[@brianmouland209]

Ty Cobb was a complete racist but is in the Hall

[@SheepofChrist818]

@@doctorhayo7976Dumb as in saying stuff that doesnt help your case for the hall for fame.

[@therealmcromano319]

They kept Curt out of the hall because he’s a GAMER truly the most oppressed class

[@Gemnist98]

Does this mean all us MLB The Show players will never be respected by MLB?

[@JohnSmith-zw8vp]

Nah, pro-lifers and Trump supporters are the most oppressed class.

[@JeremyWashington1489]

Big facts. Gamers rise up.

[@MrGrombie]

I can appreciate a man who can see past bad character designs. You have gained my sub.

[@JGLeber]

Should be in HOF. Record shows he belongs. Politics is the bane of civilization. Not worth a bucket of warm spit. Left out because writers don't like his views. Makes old Soviet Union look progressive.

[@christophermcclain1835]

It's an honor to watch you do your thing. You are a very important voice in baseball-which is to say a very important voice in the world. You're good at what you do. You're getting better everyday. Thank you.

[@djt8870]

this guys a joke. he said hes not going to be politically bias then proceeds to be politically bias. lmao.

[@LouieKaboom]

​@@djt8870Exactly. It's what Leftists do.

[@ranelgallardo7031]

He’s the Kanye West of the baseball community

[@nomorefielders]

Curt Schilling really be bleeding on the mound and go “these colors don’t run”

[@AdequateEmily]

Says he “backs the blue” and yet wore red…curious 🤔

[@nomorefielders]

@@AdequateEmily Curt Schilling Psyops reveal?

[@AdequateEmily]

@@nomorefielders Honestly now you’re making me wonder…did Curt Schilling bankrupt RI so he’d come up when googling “Rhode Island political corruption” instead of how their state is basically run by the mob lol

[@nomorefielders]

@@AdequateEmily I think this warrants a video of its own. Let’s do it.

[@AdequateEmily]

@@nomorefielders real talk there is actually probably a good video in the concept of how Curt Schilling used his capital as an athlete and the cult of capitalist growth to get RI to spend money on him that they refused to put into public works, and how that extends to the relationship of owners to the fanbase in how we as fans are told to foot the bill for billionaires…though I wonder if sports KZbin is ready for that yet lol

[@wvu05]

I can see his case as a player, but in all honesty, he did himself in. Had he have just kept his big mouth shut, he had a decent shot of making it his last year. It is definitely ironic that he insisted that he would have gotten a fairer shake from the Veterans Committee, but his percentage was actually lower with them. If you're a marginal case, a jerk won't make it. If you are so good that it is impossible to overlook your stats (and there were no PEDs or other major issues), you'll get there.

[@RandallBalls]

Curt is that good though, dafuck?

[@wvu05]

@@RandallBalls You have to be better than good to make the Hall of Fame. His was a marginal case. His win and strikeout totals were dwarfed by contemporaries such as Maddux and Johnson, respectively. His ERA looks gigantic compared to Martinez. A WAR of 79 makes someone a borderline case. Not laughable, but not a lock. Borderline cases are the ones that rely far more on the judgment of the voters, so insulting them isn't smart.

[@thegamingpigeon3216]

There aren't many guys that get in on a postseason performance-first basis, but Schilling definitely fits the bill. He was by no means a slouch in the regular season, but 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA, 133.1 innings pitched, 120 K's against just 25 walks in 19 postseason starts? He had 3 bad starts in the postseason, that was it. Take those away, the man was one of the most dominant postseason pitchers we've ever seen (which, in fairness, he pretty much was already). And if you're gonna say "Well, the character clause" yeah, sure, take that into account, but take it into account during his CAREER, not after he retired. If you're gonna look at post-career controversy, half the guys in Cooperstown should get booted out. He's a jackass, but he's a Hall of Fame jackass.

[@mr.president4672]

"..whose on the left politicaly" Yeah, bud. Your femboy arms and lack of chin told us that comrade 😂

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I curl 40lb dbs for reps (with proper form) at 150 bw lil boy

[@mr.president4672]

@@AndThatsBaseball All the curls in the world will never cure you from the malformation of your mind and chin, both weakend by your soy stuffed doctrine of leftist degeneracy; it's as if the Lord has put a mark upon you (the weak, lefty chin) and placed you in the view of the righteous to be but a walking example of just how low a "man" could be reduced down to when he subjects himself to that left-hand path

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Oh my lord get a hobby or something 😂😂😂

[@TheTEN24]

I’m sure he’ll get in eventually but he definitely asked for it not being able to control himself and what he says lol

[@jsivco3sivco785]

There is no true "Freedom of Speech" in America! This is just more proof of it.

[@gary6754]

ok, u must be a radical leftist on every issue

[@AndThatsBaseball]

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[@WhatHappenedtoBaseball]

ATB's really made it now

[@curryboyftw]

There is a character qualifier for the hall. There’s a bunch of racists and even a KKK member inducted, but that doesn’t mean anyone who falls short of lynching someone should be immune from having their character assessed for the honors. He asked to be taken off the ballot, so he’s off the ballot. He was an absolute force on the mound, one of the best ever, but im totally fine not seeing his plaque up in the hall. You ask and you shall receive.

[@LouieKaboom]

Yeah, and here's why. If you're going to use that as a garbage talking point, know what you're talking about. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYfIoJierrKBrdU

[@haroldtruffman]

Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame. Maybe the display honoring him should be somewhere in the back, but he should be in there.

[@ItDoBeWack]

Found you a couple of videos ago and love your content and editing keep up the great work man !!

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Thanks!

[@steventitch4169]

Schilling has had the misfortune of being among the first athletes use social media to magnify truly dumb statements. In the past, such comments might be overheard in the locker room, but beat writers kept it to themselves. And I'm glad you brought up the messy aspects of a number of inductees, including outspoken racists such as Cap Anson and Kennesaw Mountain Landis, who proactively maintained baseball's color line. As far as athletes saying stupid things go, this is already becoming more and more common, and there's no monopoly on any one political slant. As time goes on, such statements will become less and less important. I think another decade down the line, Schilling will get voted in. There's too strong a case for him. And unlike Rose and Bonds, who are controversial themselves, Schilling did nothing to damage the game. We do a disservice to fans and baseball history if we start applying political tests to legitimate HoF candidates. These are subjective measures when the objective measures should count.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I didn’t really think of it that way, you’re 100% right. I think players will have better media training going forward, so even more outspoken guys with less popular opinions will make less inflammatory posts, but the overall volume of players speaking out will make the impact of people like Curt less noticed.

[@raymondsbrickcity]

His Baseball numbers speak for themselves. The BBWAA hate him and refuse to vote for him. I met him in person and he's not a friendly person but it was an honor to meet and thank him for the 2004 World Series breaking the curse. I saw him pitch in 2004 against the A's which is the day he was driving home and called the police on a drunk driver. He should be in the HOF.

[@btknight17]

This video quality is top tier. The visuals, the script, the pacing. Subbed and looking forward to your future videos.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Welcome aboard!

[@chrismeister2554]

The music too !

[@devonbajek6655]

Love your videos man!

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@ironguru7866]

A man's beliefs, whether you agree or not, should never keep them out of the Hall.

[@karddubs]

The “transphobic” meme at 16:25 has aged WAY too well haha

[@felipedantaspocheti]

From a purely neutral perspective, this is what Schilling wished for. He much preferred being analyzed by his peers (we all know baseball players tend to be more conservative due to their backgrounds) than by the media, who is admittedly much more left-leaning

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Funny how the Vet’s committee voted for him at a lower rate

[@Gemnist98]

@@AndThatsBaseball Perhaps, but 1. I think the percentage was always going to be skewed because the VC is only sixteen people, not over 300. And 2. given how all of the steroid users (and Albert Belle) got significantly fewer votes, I think Schilling has a much better shot than they do - it will just be until 2029. Hell, he even finished higher than Braves legend Dale Murphy, and the Braves presence in the VC was so significant it gave Fred McGriff an unanimous vote.

[@fortynights1513]

@@Gemnist98 McGriff was certainly a borderline candidate who was helped by his committee. But if you want to talk about guys who really got in through committee, then look at the Cardinals that got in through the Vets in the 70’s, and more recently, Harold Baines.

[@Il_Exile_lI]

@@AndThatsBaseball The Veterans committee is probably more likely value stuff like 300 wins and Cy Young awards rather than the metrics that paint him as a clear Hall of Famer like WAR. Then again, the Veterans Committee also voted in Jack Morris who also had neither 300 wins nor any Cy Youngs, but 3 rings some iconic postseason performances. Schilling is clearly better than Jack Morris based on really any metrics of evaluation you come up with, new or old school, so I would say him getting in on the Veterans Committee at some point is still likely.

[@fortynights1513]

@@Il_Exile_lI Could a Veterans Committee also value postseason performances?

[@ihatetheantichrist9545]

Journalists should not be voting for the baseball hall of fame to begin with. Make it like the veterans committee where former players vote and just expand the number of voters.

[@kerrytodd3753]

One of the absolute best in the game…….awesome competitor!

[@ricky5369]

yea I'm from rhode island so maybe he shouldn't be in the hall of fame

[@mr.halloween87]

Curt canceled himself! Especially when he withdrew himself in the end. Playing a victim, now.

[@mohammadzafar]

I think the problem with inducting Schilling into the hall of fame is that if any player in the future says similar to worse things, you will need to elect them too. So question is where do you draw the line? What is "too much?" I think many of the voters don't feel comfortable with that and don't wanna set that precedent. I can't blame them.

[@ricky99la]

Very well made video!

[@northr99]

Seems weird to go out of your way to outline rules for the last segment just to go ahead and immediately violate those rules?

[@AndThatsBaseball]

What are the charges

[@nebwachamp]

His vote kept him out. Instead of voting for tyranny under the guise of gay tolerance he prefers freedom and person responsibility.

[@jeffspicoli763]

That tweet wasn't "transphobic," it was an accurate statement.

[@GunnShotVisuals]

good work

[@joggingscissors632]

Also, great vid. You sir, hsve earned yourself a new subscriber.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Glad to have you!

[@aidanmagill6769]

He's absolutely 100% inarguably right about student loan "forgiveness". You took out the loan, you pay it back. It's your responsibility. It's also your responsibility that instead of a useful degree you studied victimhood. Why should the taxpayer bail you out? It's complete abdication of personal responsibility. Also "far right" 😂😂😂😂😂

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Why should the taxpayer bail him out for his awful business?

[@user-cw3wm9lx7w]

somewhat true, the problem isn’t the loans it is tuition afforadbility.

[@sethtate2079]

I've never liked schilling... He got on my nerves as a player. The way he threw Mitch Williams under the bus, along with I think the bloody sock thing was staged. That being said, there are a lot of jerks in the HOF. As far as we know, He didnt cheat. And to be honest, when you compare him to jack Morris, goose gossage, rollie fingers it is a no brainer.

[@shorunke86]

Nice vid. Thanks

[@Maddenmvp_yt]

Argue with me all you want but what someone says or does off field should have no effect on the hall like the HOF should solely be based on who played baseball the best

[@DMalltheway]

Hard to believe the orioles gave up on him so soon.

[@GeeEm1313]

Their GM was in a win now mode, sadly.

[@DMalltheway]

@@GeeEm1313 Could you imagine a Yankee killer like Schilling on the 96 and 97 Baltimore teams?

[@coolguy02536]

Every trade Curt was involved in was lopsided.

[@tysonroanhouse8206]

I just wanted a video about curt schillings career and you turn it into a left wing political speech.. nice job ..

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Thanks big guy glad you enjoyed

[@avacadomangobanana2588]

What a bozo 😂

[@nickb2878]

dude got hosed, he didnt compromise the integrity of the game. and had an astronomical career, including post season which has kept alot of guys out of the hall. He should have been in over big papi with his juice scandal imo, but ya know.

[@jaylenbarnes2.079]

I love this Video so much

[@johnxgalt8312]

We all know Schilling would be in the BHF if his opinions leaned left.

[@mayet4702]

Need a tissue, big boy? 😂

[@retroguy3344]

@@mayet4702it’s true.

[@mayet4702]

@@retroguy3344 Great argument! 🤣 What else ya got, big boy? 😘 I bet you cried when they put a trans person on a crappy beer can! 😂

[@LLPOF]

It's not that he has a loud mouth. It's that he is not the same political party as the media. Very simple.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

What about Mariano?

[@LLPOF]

@@AndThatsBaseball I wouldn't classify Mariano as loud. My point was, it wouldn't matter if Schilling was loudmouthed, if the "correct" opinions were being mouthed. Being loud has consequences when you are "incorrect".

[@AndThatsBaseball]

There’s not one example of an openly (or obnoxiously) leftist player in the hall either. Mariano is an example of a right wing player who got in UNANIMOUSLY. If Curt wasn’t an ass, he’d be in, regardless of his opinions.

[@LLPOF]

@@AndThatsBaseball Read your statement once a day until you spot your logic error. Or not. Doesn't matter.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

If Curt replaced his collection of Nazi war memorabilia with a collection of Soviet war memorabilia I don’t think his chances would’ve improved

[@whatsthebigfndeal]

It's a pretty crazy time when having the opinion that people should pay their own debts is considered an extreme view.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

That’s not an extreme view, he just failed to pay a 75 million dollar debt. It’s more about casting stones from a glass house

[@whatsthebigfndeal]

@@AndThatsBaseball Tell that to all the people whining about their student loans.

[@juggmkj]

I didn't know ANYTHING about Curt's controversies after retiring.Personally, I don't think that should play any part in his getting or not getting into the HOF

[@CharmCityGamer]

Schill will get in someday, but good vid regardless!

[@MrMusicMan95]

I don’t see the issue with his view on student loans. I agree with it, and I have student loan debt. I took those loans, nobody else, so I will pay them back. That’s fair and that was literally the agreement. The student loan forgiveness movement is, in my opinion, absolutely fucking ridiculous.

[@avacadomangobanana2588]

Blah blah blah bro stfu and do what is actually best for you. Stop copping to rich idiots who don’t have a lick of debt

[@ndrocca]

Wait a minute… you are telling me Curt Schilling is at least partially responsible for Kingdoms of Amalur Reckoning?! One of the best RPGs ever created, WHAT?! I don’t know how to feel about that.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I mean he owned the studio that bought the studio that developed it when it was already mostly done

[@ndrocca]

@@AndThatsBaseball That makes me feel a bit better

[@jtate2016]

wow, just read a write-up about him from "The Baseball 100" last night about how frustrating of a personality he is. well timed!

[@moonboy685]

Curt has done and said some pretty questionable (at best) things outside the lines. But in the game he did some unbelievable things. That’s what I view the hall as being for. But I don’t get a vote 😅

[@anewt72690]

His career stats and accolades are basically John Smoltz, who waltzed in on the first ballot. I don't like him, but you can't tell the story of baseball without him.

[@uggmufpendrak8088]

Love the background music

[@bravo48]

As someone on the political right, I too think that his induction did mostly come down to his vocal personality and what he believes. I understand a little why a lot of the journalists don't like him, the fact that he hasn't gotten in yet just goes to show how screwed up the HOF voting system is. It's just a popularity contest at this point. The hall will never be complete until all of the best baseball players of all time are in it, not just people who had decently solid careers, and also were controversy free off the field

[@Mpetey123]

Bonds, Rose, Schilling aren't in the BaseBall Writers of America HOF all were salty with the media. Yeah no bias there. The Hall is a joke. Selig got in despite being the architect and main beneficiary of the Steroid era, but he was a liberal and gave scoops to scummy writer so he gets in.

[@dgrblue4162]

Baseball is different, MLB does not own and or operate the National baseball HoF. There are plenty of "bad guys", questionable characters, etc, in the Hall of Fame. Probably a few conservatives, too. Society has changed from the beginnings of the hall. The Commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis is in, and he had a trophy named in his honor. He was a racist man, resisting integration. It isn't just his political views which is keeping Schilling out, it is his acerbic personality and his seemingly inability to just be a decent person, especially toward the media. Unfortunately, they are the entity which decides who goes in.

[@warlordofbritannia]

I mean, he tweeted about hanging journalists, the exact people who vote for the Hall. He’s got no one to blame but himself; he was trending towards election until that point, despite the politics and fraud.

[@nautgamingnautgaming9949]

@dgrblue 4 I'm guessing that there's a different reason Steroids So I'm supposed to believe that a hall of fame guy who got surgery the same week had blood from an injection site pitched phenomenonly in 2 straight games is supposed to because human performance I call bs and I do know biogenesis and the one before this was around the same time frame We also have similar track records for people now who did this came back n all of them got caught juicing I do not genuinely believe that schilling story adds up here

[@Gemnist98]

9:30 You just can’t escape Barry Bonds, can you?

[@AndThatsBaseball]

NEVER

[@Gemnist98]

@@AndThatsBaseball And funnily enough, this video came out on the same day Baseball Doesn’t Exist released a video on Barry Bonds. I guess we the viewers can’t escape him either huh.

[@xtlm]

Yes, he should be in the HOF. A HOF is for excellent on field play.

[@The44thDon]

His take on student loans is 10000000% correct though.

[@avacadomangobanana2588]

No. It’s not. It’s one sided and ignorant. Much like many Republican talking points. Dude stole 74 million from tax payers. That’d cover plenty of student loans

[@joggingscissors632]

I happen to be from RI. And I completely agree with you. Personally, he's a totally hypocritical POS. But was he a good enough player to earn a spot in the HOF? Absolutely. It's not a popularity contest. It's an athletic one

[@BuzzworthyMedia]

"It's not a popularity contest. It's an athletic one" - True that!

[@marioarguello6989]

You obviously haven't paid attention.

[@elijahguerrero1490]

Nah the One Beer beat is sooooooo toughhhhhh RIP DOOM

[@kevincollins619]

Perfect example of the lack of mental health in our country is such a great athlete, and Superpitcher could become so deranged

[@stantheman3252]

Babe wake up, new And That’s Baseball video just dropped.

[@cbod14]

The reality of this situation is this: The minute he expressed his admiration for that picture that called for the murder of journalists his chances of getting into The Hall of Fame became greatly reduced. The shocking part is when you normally get to 71% you get in. That says more about this situation than I could.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I think he would’ve got in his last year if he didn’t tell them not to vote for him

[@cbod14]

@@AndThatsBaseball He’d have gotten in if not for his doubling down on being a bigoted clown. I’ve said for years that if you want to claim the record book is stained by PED’s, you also have to claim it’s stained by segregation. You can’t ignore one sin & climb on a moral high horse about another. Especially since the latter issue helped your sport explode in popularity in the late 90’s. I’m not losing any sleep over Schilling not getting in because I can deal with his being a bad person what I won’t condone is his inability to look at himself critically.

[@CC-jl7jz]

And yet if he said he loved men pretending to be women or loved gr00ming 8 year old children he'd be already be enshrined.

[@cbod14]

@@CC-jl7jz as opposed to youth pastors, priests & others that actually do sexually assault children right?

[@elcidcampeador9629]

You should look at the history of “journalism” and perhaps the shirt might make more sense. I will give you one example: the NYT slanted and untruthful coverage of the Diem regime almost single handedly caused his death and the collapse of the one man holding the communist regime at bay. That death of Diem meant Americas involvement in the Vietnam war and the death of tens of thousands.

[@AdequateEmily]

As a trans woman from Boston it’ll never not be funny to me I dressed as him for Halloween and now he openly thinks I’m an agent of Satan that should be expelled. I also dressed as Harry Potter for Halloween too…please god don’t let this happen with the Power Rangers too.

[@Gemnist98]

No need to worry; Haim Saban is a proud Democrat!

[@thurm64]

you're valid. that's all i have to say, take care 🏳‍⚧

[@fioredeutchmark]

How can you transition to something you already are?

[@fioredeutchmark]

@@thurm64 what a creepy thing to say to a stranger.

[@LouieKaboom]

He never said that. You've just been brainwashed into believing that, just like you're brainwashed into believing you're a man when you aren't. And he's been proven right: grown men are going in the same restrooms as little girls. Grow up, will ya.

[@aaronfindora3397]

I'm happy with the balance of the video and comment section. Thank you.

[@coansm]

Yea, don't go to college if you don't want to pay the loans, plenty of other options, dude who made the video is mad because he probably owes money. You can't have student loan debt forgiveness and have hard working people pay it off with tax money, it's not right. I agree with a lot of the things Schilling said. And another thing is I'm the biggest Yankee fan in the world, Rivera is the best closer of all time, and he probably agrees with the things Schilling has said too, but A. he didn't do it publicly, and B. He isn't a white guy. Just like the kid in the video said, he said it himself "60 year old white dude". The "left" is out of their minds and it will continue to effect every aspect of anything that we once had as American culture.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Schilling made taxpayers of Rhode Island cover him for $75 million dollars. I have loan payments to make and I will make them with or without assistance, but I’d rather my tax dollars be reinvested in educating the working class than bailing out the elites or funding wars.

[@coansm]

@@AndThatsBaseball me too, why are we sending money to Ukraine, what have they ever done for us, plenty of poor people here to help out, Schilling is more than likely a former demoncrat.

[@isoldmysoulforanime7163]

Hey man, love your content. Definitely not crap lol. Keep it up!!

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Glad I’m in the “not crap” tier!

[@rebirth_mishap]

I was about to do it but you just cost yourself a sub

[@AndThatsBaseball]

???

[@rebirth_mishap]

@@AndThatsBaseball was he wrong about whiny little fucks complaining about paying back student loans???

[@AndThatsBaseball]

You’re allowed to have that opinion if you didn’t personally squander $75 million in taxpayer funds

[@rebirth_mishap]

@@AndThatsBaseball I wasn't talking about good horrible business dealings. Do you think he was wrong about whiny little bastards that get some worthless Gender Studies or Philosophy degree and find themselves working ATM McDonald's with mountains of debt?

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I’m the guy who makes baseball videos on KZbin, not the guy who decides how tax money is allocated. But personally, I’d rather my tax dollars go to students struggling with loans than terrible businesses that will squander it

[@gandix5516]

Yes, he’s one of the best pitchers ever. He’s also top 3 most clutch postseason pitcher of all time. The ultimate gamer. Just don’t let him give a speech 🎤

[@johnnycarter2283]

So he don't get to be in the hall of Fame because he don't agree with men dressing up and pretending to be a woman or a woman dressing up a man pretending to be a man? Well curt is right transgender stuff is sick stuff

[@gridlore]

Yeah, he's one of those players you should be able to put into suspended animation when you don't need them.

[@johnnycarter2283]

@@gridlore well the stuff he says is true. Would u want some man pretending to be a woman going in the same bathroom as your lil daughter?

[@gridlore]

@@johnnycarter2283 Do you do genital checks on everyone in public bathrooms? And as someone with a big sister who was my big brother for 50 years, you are woefully ignorant. Cathy knew she was really a girl when she was three, as do most trans people. They aren't pretending, they are conforming their bodies to who they really are.

[@johnnycarter2283]

@@gridlore oh please if you were born a man you are a man and if you are born a woman you are a woman and whatever you are born as that's what you will be till the day you die. They still have the DNA, the blood, the bone structure, the man still has his Weiner and the woman her part and they both use the bathroom the way each are suppose to. And you don't need to do genital checks you can easily tell a transgender person right when you see them it's so obvious what sex they are. So they can go ahead and pretend and play dress up but that's all it will be is pretending. And when I say the stuff I say I get likes all the time because everyone agrees with me. When they stand before god they will stand before god as the sex they were born as not the sex they are pretending to be.

[@Gemnist98]

Had to come back here after the Tim Wakefield situation. What a selfish thing to do. Imagine being a cancer survivor, being told that a dear friend is on his deathbed from the disease, and instead of supporting him, you leak it to the whole world without his permission and make it all about yourself. I have a good feeling this will be the last straw for him, and if so, good riddance. RIP Tim Wakefield.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Story made me so sick. Can't believe Curt couldn't bite his tongue this one time.

[@LouieKaboom]

Not selfish at all, offering thoughts on prayers. If they didn't want it as public knowledge they shouldn't have said anything. Plus they were friends. You losers still can't help yourselves, just like the lie of him "wanting to hang a journalist". 😂

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Yeah, Tim told his friends in private then his "friend" leaked it on his podcast for views. I get the divide when it comes to his politics, but how can anyone side with him on this shit?

[@Gemnist98]

@@LouieKaboomIf you’re a Christian (Iike me), you should know that more people praying does not mean a miracle is more likely to happen. When medical miracles do happen, they come from small acts of prayer, not grandiose gestures. Schilling himself knew the Wakefields wanted to keep their condition private, yet he leaked it to the whole world. You can pray for a friend while respecting their wishes at the same time. Everyone else who knew about their condition knew that. And he ignored them.

[@user-cw3wm9lx7w]

@@Gemnist98 Yeah, he could have just visited his friend privately.

[@Realistic316]

good video bud…. i’m new here, and i just subscribed 👍🏼

[@saltywingsandavsfan]

I voted for the Los Pollos Hermanos Party

[@SconnerStudios]

Literal KKK member(s) in the hall Commissioner who kept out black players in the hall Rapist in the hall Guy who basically started the color barrier in the hall Harold Baines in the hall (supposedly a fantastic guy, just a mediocre player) Confirmed steroid player(s) in the hall Gamblers and cheaters in the hall Guy who says mean things on twitter not in the hall. I think 99% of what Schilling says is absurd and otherworldly, but let's keep things in perspective. Greatest postseason pitcher in history by a longshot, 3,000 strikeouts, several famous moments including the bloody sock. Only the low amount of wins is the only thing against him, and you can chalk that up to being on the crappy Phillies during the mid-late 90s. PUT THIS MAN IN THE HALL, just mute his microphone during the induction ceremony so we don't hear any n words or f slurs.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

That’s pretty much my take in a nutshell. Like I understand why people didn’t vote for him, but I would’ve cuz I don’t think his insane takes are nearly as harmful to the game or society as what other enshrined players did.

[@EweCantHandletheTruth]

Harold Baines has almost 3000 hits and over 1600 rbi’s. That’s ‘mediocre’?

[@Gemnist98]

@@EweCantHandletheTruth He’s got an “abysmal” 39 WAR. For context, the vast majority of Hall of Famers are above 50 WAR. That’s really the main talking point.

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

@@EweCantHandletheTruth he was trash

[@SconnerStudios]

@@EweCantHandletheTruth He's a perfect candidate for the hall of very good. He never had a batting title, a world series legendary play, an MVP, or basically anything noteworthy. I could probably name 200 players who belong in the hall before Baines. It doesn't mean Baines was a bad player, just a bad player by Hall of Fame standards. And from what I've heard, he's a very nice guy, so it was kind of a joke putting him there next to klansmen and cheaters.

[@benjamingonzalezjr9294]

Nice mix of music too! 🎶

[@CoxinatorProductions]

“Some politics, NO BIAS”. Proceed to SpongeBob clip laughing at Curt’s politics.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Laughing at the hypocrisy. It’s not the fact that he’s against debt relief, it’s the fact that he JUST cost taxpayers tens of millions a few years ago and still went ahead with that tweet

[@CoxinatorProductions]

@@AndThatsBaseball And we’re laughing at yours.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

@@CoxinatorProductions I would have no personal issue with him being against spending on debt relief if he didn't squander a $75 million government loan. How is this hypocritical?

[@CoxinatorProductions]

@@AndThatsBaseball ugh. Stick with making second rate Baseball Doesn’t Exist vids.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

You watched till the end bud. Glad you enjoy the second rate content.

[@PoweroftheP00f]

I've lived in Rhode Island my whole life, and I was 11 during the 2004 World Series. Curt Schilling was my hero. I even dressed up as him for Halloween. My favorite thing about him was that he would score the game in between innings. His attention to detail was immaculate. He was a genius at baseball, but failed at being a good person. Eventually, someone just becomes such a belligerent a**hole that you can't support them anymore. However, his accolades are that of legend, and he absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. If he didn't pull this stupid "Don't vote for me" stunt, he'd probably already be in. Such a dissappintment. =/

[@OhioRox]

While his career to me certainly is worthy of the hall, the case you presented while admitting your own personal bias’ really strengthens the argument. This was a really good watch thank you.

[@zennyspent]

To the fans who are saying, "Well, there are klan members from the 30s in the Hall, why not Curt?"Just let that marinate. As the species evolves, so must the standards of excellence. Curt pitched at an arguably hall of fame level, but he was a top-class asshole. He fleeced people for millions, which goes above and beyond his politics. And political leanings should not affect his status, but the things he said absolutely can. I wouldn't blink if they took every member of the Hall with klan ties out, but they are not the standard to which a modern player should be held.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I agree that modern standards should be set, but baseball will never remove longtime members from the hall, so it’ll forever be a muddy conversation.

[@zennyspent]

@And That's Baseball Exactly! If noted racists like Cobb and company aren't removed, then you stamp that era as a time when we didn't know better. Curt got his name in the paper in an era where we all know better. He chose words that could do damage, and if the few actual sports journalists that are left decided that he should be punished for those words, then that's the bed he made. He knew he was being a dick, so now he's Bonds with a fastball and a bloody sock.

[@zennyspent]

@And That's Baseball I can't express enough how much I agree with you, though. This truly is a muddy topic, and I don't think any one of us has the perfect answer.

[@cardboardempire]

Curt IS a hall of famer. The only thing keeping him out is overly sensitive arm chair warriors....the sports writers

[@alphariusomegon6710]

The gaming thing is interesting with how the Red Sox got in trouble with gaming, well, not trouble, but exposed for gaming more than practicing in 2011. Its like its a thing with them.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

Maybe that started with Curt lol