“I Think You’ve Undervalued Your Company” | Dragons' Den

Dog lover Michelle Turnbull from The Barking Bakery spent years scouring the pet aisles in search of a gap in the market. She decided to set up a business selling cake, popcorn and other treats safe for dogs to eat. She's looking for a £75,000 investment for 15% of her company.
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
Season 17, Episode 4
#DragonsDen #DogTreats #BarkingBakery #BusinessPitch

[@noahbawdy3395]

"I Think You’ve Undervalued Your Company" Never thought I'd hear that in the Den. It is sad that she didn't bring her bookkeeper with her.

[@RockyDave]

Exactly. Other entrepreneurs bring their numbers person with them.

[@adedaremayowa1347]

Am so pained if entrepreneurs doesn't know their numbers 🥵

[@BenjaminGoose]

I doubt they spoke it with all capitalised words like that.

[@AScaryOrange123]

@@RockyDave She obviously isnt the smartest. Nothing wrong with being bad with financials. The simple solution is just to hire someone to give her advice.

[@SpencerGD]

For sure. There have been so many pitches where people have called in accountants for the financial questions. Is that not allowed anymore? She probably could have gotten investment if she had someone there to help with that part.

[@MegaSkillz1]

Debra getting salty because she declared herself out too quick 😂

[@andrewvelonis5940]

She's wearing Jenny's outfit.

[@Ron.S.]

It’s because she didn’t make it in the same business. Her product wasn’t good enough

[@nigelwilliams9307]

So true.

[@Pinklove7479]

@@Ron.S.the pet shop thst I worked in they sell tonnes daily

[@ThePrimeMinisterOfTheBlock]

"earlier, Tej expressed interest in buying a dog" Evan on top of his game 🤣

[@detailsstudio21]

Bahahahah

[@djwdjw5176]

It’s so odd to see Debra strait up snacking on those dog treats.

[@markrainford1219]

It's free.

[@tina6450]

@@markrainford1219 if someone gave you s*** you would eat it for free

[@longq5198]

Deborah is probably this entrepreneur's best customer now.

[@PigeonFace4Life]

We use these cakes for every birthday our dogs have. Granted we only buy them twice a year, but our dogs love the cakes and associate them with a special time of year. I highly recommend these cakes

[@Paul-km9ox]

Birthday for dogs, that’s sad

[@FojGamingVideos]

@@Paul-km9ox cheer up Paul, bet you celebrate your wife’s birthday and she’s still a dog.

[@Paul-km9ox]

@@FojGamingVideos oh that hurt my feelings. Nothing screams a saddo life than celebrating birthday for dogs, he should get a life better yet a family

[@BenjaminGoose]

The only one sad here is you.@@Paul-km9ox

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

Nice for people dogs have different tastes, they will just eat basically anything including cheaper treats!

[@palatialpetals]

For someone who seemingly doesn't have a clue, she's done brilliantly well to produce those income revenues.. seemed like a great business, just needed some guidance. Missed opportunity imo

[@amiraelt]

Exactly ..

[@deadeyedetailing1057]

I wouldnt say missed oppertnity! They are in 4 countries now!

[@longq5198]

Yes, she just got flustered.

[@muhammadmubeenkahlon4598]

Deborah shouldn't have spoken after she declared herself out. It is her fault that she got herself out too quickly.

[@MsNoPixel]

If you aren’t good with numbers bring the damn person with you who does your numbers because typically people who aren’t good with numbers hire someone to do them & the show allows you to bring 1 person with you that you can call on at any time!

[@danielpedersen1688]

Exactly that's what I thought!! I would hire someone to do them for me and bring that person to dragons den, so that person focuses on the numbers and i focus on everything else.

[@alkaholic4848]

Or at least ask them beforehand and write them down.

[@sherry356]

@@alkaholic4848 You aren't allowed to take notes of figures with you to the Den - those are the rules, otherwise it doesn't make good entertainment on TV if people aren't struggling.

[@skunclep1938]

@@sherry356 fine, but they are allowed to bring a representative, which is where she went wrong.

[@Emma-dv2yh]

VC?

[@LividCoffee01]

'I knew someone was running your company' gotta love peter

[@basiljarral2675]

True dat😂🙌

[@bentones1701]

Everyone of the dragons missed the fact that when Tej asked for her projections for this year she said ‘year to date is 375k’ and that’s where the missing money is because the year won’t have finished yet. Obviously she missed the fact he said projections so couldn’t explain where she went wrong because she actually wasn’t wrong about her numbers just misheard the question. Shame because I think she would’ve got an investment if this didn’t happen.

[@roses2361]

You’re right, I replayed it @4:42

[@calsmyth4483]

I'm surprised none of them picked up on her answering "what is your current year forecast" with her year to date figure - that's presumably why her number was so low in comparison to monthly sales.

[@Erik_Danley]

Gosh she seems fantastic. I wish she would have brought along a finance person to help her

[@ShudiptoDip39]

9:24 Deborah doing the crazy eyes to prove her point

[@daprince001x5]

Lol

[@kabilan]

😂

[@Bob_Sunday]

Bob from Nigeria. I love watching the Dragons' Den show

[@salihujohn2171]

Also from Nigeria and I love watching the show too

[@JT-qi1wk]

Hi bob

[@SpyroTek]

The Last Stylebender.

[@Bob_Sunday]

Hi JT 😁

[@fastfoxblox]

sup bob my guy

[@johntrust6217]

She’s a good business woman, she’s started a business, brought it to market and got good revenues. I wish someone would have taken a chance on her - hopefully a VC watching will.

[@bobsmith3291]

What’s a VC?

[@incorrigiblesam]

@@bobsmith3291 Vulture Capitalist is more like it.

[@kamma44]

A 'good' business person is about more than being able to sell something. It's also about understanding the numbers, ie. the MONEY!!

[@skunclep1938]

Good Business Woman??? She doesn’t know what Goss profit is, doesn’t know what her turnover is, she doesn’t believe she has any competition? The woman is a financial liability. No VC would touch this with a barge pole.

[@bopcentral7425]

One of the worst business person ever.

[@alanmurphy30]

her ability to deliver, sell and market her product was actually super impressive. She needed a partner to do to the financial side of the business so she could concentrate on growing the part in which she is obviously very strong at. From the get go she was negative about her financial knowledge. I see so many on the den stumble with figures. Is there some rule to say you can't take a quick summary and breakdown of the financials for a quick glance over by the Dragons? No matter how good you are, it is always going to be pressured in a pitch. Give the information at the ready on documentation and take that pressure off. That's my opinion.

[@roses2361]

Well said!

[@NickJay]

I totally agree with you, Alan. I've been wondering for years why they have to memorise everything rather than being able to write it down - they could even print out their balance sheets to hand out to the dragons, too! So yes, totally.

[@SuperPuggle]

This is like the first thing I've seen on DD and in person, she's doing good.

[@BenjaminGoose]

Doing good? Like, moral good? Or doing well?

[@SuperPuggle]

@@BenjaminGoose we'll assume both unless a relative died

[@dac8939]

She has done well from start to actually listing it nationally but easy competition

[@amenwalton]

This show is fascinating!

[@mustangsally5426]

What's everyone eating for dinner? I'm cooking a Sunday dinner, roast potatoes, turkey , stuffing, sprouts, mint and cream mash, broccoli, Yorkshire pudding, gravy, mint jelly and a nut roast for me.

[@RockyDave]

Impressive! Was enjoying my salt 'n pepper chips until I saw what you're having.

[@999life]

Pizza here!

[@adedaremayowa1347]

You're pretty good chef 👌

[@darrenh0218]

a Brit over in Vietnam. midnight here. had German food delivered for lunch.

[@Selfimprovementkingyoutube]

I had chicken and rice (:

[@tooshlong]

What an amazing woman. Decent, honest and incredible. I love her. God bless Northerners

[@tammysuetaylormusic]

I love Dragons Den. One of my favorite shows ❤️

[@JL-gf3yc]

Congratulations.

[@readmycomment3157]

Imagine giving 75 grand to someone who openly says they aren't good with numbers

[@bolawolesegun4248]

She should have gotten someone to handle that for her , it is that simple

[@cadencendhlovu2492]

@@bolawolesegun4248 yeah i know a lot of people with good actually great business minds but outsource their accounting and figures stuff and doing quite well

[@occam5052]

Should’ve bought in a financial advocate to answer the financial questions

[@scienceevolves4417]

Well .. I'd give her 20 quid and hope she mistakenly believes it's 75k lol

[@Locutus]

She really needed a business partner, not an investor. A partner that can help her run the business.

[@ThatWayneFella1980]

Dragons den is the best on KZbin in my opinion, I always look forward to the next hopeful investment.

[@JL-gf3yc]

Congratulations.

[@david9180]

This is staged false rubbish '' there is absolutely no way that a successful business distributed to main stores turning over 500 grand with an owner that claims the monetary understanding of a 4 year old ' Also the episode prior to this was an apparent stock market specialist with a clothes repair business that has lost 600 grand '' its staged for sure

[@billyjesus5442]

this woman is mental lol, love it. It makes money, it doesnt make money. We do muffins no one else does, actually loads of people make muffins.

[@david9180]

It's a set up ' staged '' no one creates a brand sells it into main stores and turns over 5 grand a month trade and then stands there with the financial savee of a 3 year old

[@boozy8659]

I looked it up, I can only find her muffins tbh. The other results are just recipes.

[@wheelsofafrica]

@@boozy8659 She is obviously capable in certain fields, and very weak in others - that's why she need a Dragon. Have a heart!

[@neslihanbrewin8725]

Deborah did her wrong there. Lots of people even I can bake some muffins for my dogs. That is not the point. I could not find any cakes etc. for dogs that had shelf life and easily accessible but hers. It is crazy that they wouldn't invest in a product because she didn't know her numbers? Nerves may be or the person is behind everything else but the numbers. And I agree with some comments she could have taken someone who deals with her finances to do that part.

[@polovw89]

She nodded her head so many times, felt like it was a spring in her head

[@Redemption4U]

Great one

[@smae890]

I find it all a bit bogus - they don't care about the 'numbers' if they like the product and business enough. Levi Roots spectacularly messed his numbers up but Peter Jones still invested and made them both millions

[@austinpibworth172]

There is due diligence before a deal is actually signed so Sara could have waited until then and if vastly wayward then don’t do the deal. You’d just need a decent book keeper/accountant to run alongside her even a few days a month to ensure financials are kept on top

[@Matthew-bu7fg]

Jenny: "You're giving us too much equity therefore I'm out"

[@lizclegg7556]

Errrr - Did Levi Roots understand anything about his numbers? Did Levi Roots have any understanding of his business?

[@MarvelX42]

It is absolutely idiotic that they expect people to have all of those numbers memorized. There is no reason that they shouldn't allow them to have stuff written down. I have NO DOUBT that the people in the chairs would not be able to give all of those same numbers for their businesses.

[@nickpellatt]

There is a reason ... its TV before its serious business proposals.

[@GennySavastone]

I have my own business and I know my figures....

[@Red-sy9lp]

They are allowed. People have been on this show with those papers before.

[@ChazZen]

they probably would know it is not that difficult and the presenters are allowed to have papers and experts with them in the presentation

[@billyjesus5442]

they could just look at her accounts.

[@GUIDESPERSPECTIVE]

I thought for sure they were going to take advantage of her and lowball the valuation even more since she didn't know her company was worth more than she knew. Thats all the sharks ever do to the pitches and here they didn't even have to lowball the entrepreneur, she already did it for them

[@PhantomFilmAustralia]

The Dragons. The Sharks are in America.

[@EeinarReviews]

This is just the best show ever...

[@tenzing2090]

@Lee Claxton Masterchef USA sucks. Masterchef Australia with the old judges was gold.

[@rhyst124]

Debra shook & defensive because it was better than her previous doggy treat business.

[@timl4257]

When she said that she didn't know of any other muffin for dogs business, I immediately thought of the quote from chuckle brothers "oh dear oh dear"

[@adedaremayowa1347]

I felt for her not getting a deal just because of basic business financials

[@adedaremayowa1347]

@Travel Crawl lol

[@david9180]

She knows every single penny especially when dealing with supermarkets and the buyers ' they razor cut everything '' she knew 5 grand a month trade didn't she ?? Its a set up

[@tomratcliffehanger]

Woofins!? RUFFins surely. I’m out

[@Dieterbe]

Good job Tom ! Ruffins sounds way better

[@JuliuszCovers]

It does sound like "ruffians", though. And in her accent, "woofin" and "muffin" rhymes :)

[@merasmussen82]

Idea for a Lebanese fast-food chain: "You're 'Avin a Falaf!"

[@prizma45]

undervalues - peter is instantly interested 😆😆

[@jamesflames6987]

I'm not a dog, but I'm pretty sure what dogs like it meat and bones, not cup cakes.

[@monikacognomen1096]

I think these products are punted to the owner rather than the dog. You know the type. I have never had a dog who was disappointed to not have a birthday cake on the anniversary of their birth. It's people who are crazy.

[@Kate-hc6js]

Im not a dog... Glad you cleared that up. 😂

[@markymark1940]

I disagree completely my dog absolutely loves treats great business and her sales are incredible she obviously is a talented entrepreneurs just needs her book keeper with her wee shame

[@theguardian308]

She is such a lovely lady.

[@rudra7615]

This isn't the first time but it always boggles my mind how unorganised and thick some of these business owners are. Makes you wonder how much money these businesses could make if they had a really good owner.

[@onlyme219]

Do you have, own, and run a business? Just asking

[@rudra7615]

@@onlyme219 I freelance on the side doing consultancy and digital marketing. Definitely made it clear for me a lot of founders aren't running their business the most efficiently

[@onlyme219]

@@rudra7615 So you don't then?

[@goodolekayjay6096]

She’s done remarkably well to invent, commercialise and industrialise a product, and to get it into major retailers - a remarkable achievement. Thick she is not.

[@rudra7615]

@@onlyme219 Oh sorry, I don't.

[@MrEueu89]

I think the Dragon missed a huge opportunity here. Her problem could easily be solved by just hiring an accountant. Her business model still works.

[@markbrown-sb2zm]

I wonder if she would have got away with telling Deborah,"with all due respect,the negotiation was rendered null and void when you declared yourself out "?

[@jessebella9322]

I was actually involved in a dog popcorn business and everybody laughed, we sold it for millions in the end Im out

[@SECRETORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR]

This woman should of bought with her Accountant or Financial advisor because she actually destroyed herself and I think she would of got a deal because she was close to getting one but her numbers was all over the place..

[@BenjaminGoose]

They was.

[@Air51]

buy 51% then put her through an accountancy course. When she proves competence, lower your percentage to 25%

[@lmc3307]

Imagine how posh and pretentious you have to be to feed a dog it’s own cupcakes, it’s truly mind boggling.

[@chrismoir1253]

Very successful business now 👏

[@faitheverard8868]

Dog treats that taste good to people are a red flag tbh. If they taste like flour and veg they are mostly filler and you shouldn’t feed them to your dog anyway. :/

[@monikacognomen1096]

Some people feed their dogs chocolate. These products are for that type of owner. Kids left home, bored husband, nothing productive to do, lacks love and affection. The poor dog is in the frame to compensate for all that and has to live on foil packets of renderings and...cake.

[@rachelw5193]

I just bought one of these muffins for my dogs bday earlier !

[@terranceparsons5185]

And I'm sure your dog knew what it was and why you bought it

[@ismailabdukadir1130]

"I knew somebody was ruining your business" 😂

[@JackTheShadowMuncher]

I wish I had the opportunity to invest but unfortunately, I’m out.

[@hohohohehehe6910]

These cakes are incredible and extremely popular.

[@sadiqalam2815]

I’m having late lunch good timing

[@georgemavsbs]

That business is now worth 2.1 million

[@charlottecariaga1548]

Is there a new season I’m confused?

[@SiriusMined]

Still trading, annual turnover just under 2 million pounds. with a PBIT of 282k

[@marthastewwart]

What market isnt difficult to scale ? Idk why they always say "THIS is a tough market..." , so which ones aren't?

[@hassanamir387]

It’s because most are tough Lol

[@marthastewwart]

@@hassanamir387 thats what i said ?

[@marthastewwart]

@@hassanamir387 im asking which markets arent tough. There obviously has to be easy markets, for you to determine a market is tough, you need an opposite to compare to know its tough in the first place.

[@eddieshez3457]

Peter Jones was wrong, he thought she said her year was going to be 375k, but she said year to date was 375k, completely different

[@bobsmith3291]

*nods* “yesssss” 😌

[@AliKhan-yx1dy]

She was a nice person she has a good business but judges there never help her which is kind of sad

[@anthonyrooksmith3189]

The dragons have a sixth sense. So many of them seem to know when someone comes in pitching for a certain one of them.

[@MrBrad777c]

I would have quite simply done a deal based on her proving her sales with financial docs. No brainer.

[@kayb2445]

Jenny is barking from afar.. “I’m out”

[@sunveerhariparsad6395]

Nah nah nah. Deborah said that she's out. She ought to have kept her mouth shut. She should've be allowed to break den rules like that.

[@gmarz9611]

Being out, doesn't mean they have to be quiet, just means they can't make an offer

[@sunveerhariparsad6395]

@@gmarz9611 It actually means that they are out so they shouldn't influence proceedings thereafter.

[@gmarz9611]

@@sunveerhariparsad6395 I think that is just the norm, but there is no real rule that says they can't say anything.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Very RARE occurrence!

[@tomh5185]

I bought some of these on my dog's birthday for at least two years. If nothing else she has got a bit of extra publicity from this.

[@1mmickk]

Great product in all respects. Healthy dog treats fit for human consumption. Shes going to make millions folks, absolute millions. 500 mil a year in the USA alone that business is worth. The branding will sell it and sell it well. These wanna be quasi rich dudes, if you notice, they only want products that they can OWN the Patent for. Thats how they make their money, by selling Businesses, not by owning them.

[@david9180]

You best contact her then because when she makes her first 10 million in Hollywood she will have apparently no idea about the money at all 😏

[@mark-147]

Totally winging it

[@bolawolesegun4248]

I am of the opinion that she should have gotten someone to handle the financial presentation for her

[@threegreencharms9196]

I thought she did very well, given the circumstances. And she has a very successful business without a dragon, she doesn't need them.

[@brianpaige4884]

For someone that's done what she has done I'd call that a success...who needs a dragon...go girl.

[@hsjasmap]

when a multi millionaire Tej has to convince his wife to get a dog!

[@b-dogs1038]

Yes agreed. Surely a Man of Tej’s standing can get a dog in the house.

[@tinderella2386]

Kind of makes him seem endearing in a way that his wife is his equal and what he says doesn’t just go

[@informationyes]

Yeah because at the end of the day their in a relationship and live together so dog will also be part of her life, being a millionair doesn't change how a healthy relationship is meant to function

[@informationyes]

@@b-dogs1038 No amount of standing changes what makes a healthy relationship

[@Henry-cf4oo]

The "round abouts" were painful to hear 😬

[@OriginalMudSlinger]

jack russell called charley wag bit tajs nose going for his muffin

[@eddiemglass]

Why do people who are not good with numbers, not bring someone with them who does know the numbers?

[@nabilhabiby]

so why didnt she bring her financial officer/employee along? I don't get it

[@safehouse8020]

Lovely lady

[@RealRushinRussian]

It's a rare occurrence in the Den for someone to undervalue their company. It is an even rarer occurrence for the narrator to run out of puns at 9:39.

[@marioevyeniou7958]

I'm fancying Debra more and more the older she gets.. she definitely has gotten better with age

[@greenbeans6253]

cake for dogs is mental

[@Pinklove7479]

Where I used to work they sell brilliantly

[@mmckenzie8085]

Aww shame she messed up. Product great fun for special occasions. I do hope she benefited from publicity going on the show. She seems a lovely lady with a good product.

[@Asif24960]

Numbers aren’t for everyone. It’s the reason why you hire a finance director after all.

[@mohammedkhaliq1475]

I doubt she didn’t know her numbers. I don’t think she’s that dumb to ask for investment on TV without that info. I think she was clever and just wanted the advertising that comes with being on the show.

[@marthastewwart]

You would be shocked. Plus a lot of it is due to nerves. They are pitching the most important pitch of their life in front of intimidating dragons.

[@mohammedkhaliq1475]

@@marthastewwart it’s a possibility, I also think the editing makes it look much worse than it is too for dramatic purposes.

[@david9180]

Its staged '' she has 5 grand a month trade without retail '' she has also created the brand and had communication with major retail stores '' with price fixings '' Also prior to this there was an apparent award winning stock broker that was haemoriging 600 grand on a clothes repair business ' its bull ' also the channel deletes my comments ' I have loads of millionaire friends and believe me they know where the last 5 pound went and want to know if they dont ' its entertainment and staged

[@marthastewwart]

@@mohammedkhaliq1475 oh 100% . We have to keep in mind these pitches are multiple hours long. Aside from being draining, there are hours of potential video shots that can't be added from time restrictions

[@marthastewwart]

@@david9180 i dont believe you

[@adedaremayowa1347]

Numbers are important - Theo Paphitis 2022

[@jackierussell1882]

Tej....get a Puggle and call Him Buddy...

[@1yearago491]

jackie russell eh? Was this comment made by a dog?

[@jackierussell1882]

No......

[@jclvmanagement7848]

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or the producers of Shark Tank and The Den are purposely choosing specific age groups for their target markets. It seems the majority of entrepreneurs pitching on the Shark Tank are under 30 and the majority of entrepreneurs pitching on the Den are over 30. Just an observation.

[@gardensoflondonmwgs7836]

Tej should Invest, make his puppy dog the ambassador of the company

[@xyeB]

I like how they said it I mean honest at least

[@jst5679]

If I put that cake in a mixed up pile on the floor...and the cupcake next too it...I don't think my dog would care less and would probably eat the mixed pile off the floor.

[@ellekay4758]

I just really want to see Gladys, now.

[@wheelsofafrica]

Thi8s woman is obviously capable in certain fields, and very weak in others - that's why she need a Dragon. Have a heart!

[@Asif24960]

For those wondering in 2022 she made circa £300k profit. End of 2022 she had a net asset position of £0.5m. Yes her number knowledge is appalling but the fact is she has a very nice profitable business

[@Asif24960]

I’m frustrated on her behalf. Why she didn’t consult a finance person to go through the numbers with her is annoying. Her forecast was embarrassing which meant the dragons couldn’t trust anything she was saying. She’s got such a nice business too but regardless it’s clear it’s worked out for her so congratulations to her

[@Alexs23743]

Better to undervalue than overvalue. ^^

[@pauldrewery6313]

If she is doing all that turnover doesn't need a investor anyway.

[@nigelwilliams9307]

Deborah was out of order. She declared herself OUT and then came back in just to interfere.

[@michaelbing8991]

Hi, I am not even going to introduce myself, and for that reason... I am out.

[@corybeevers6787]

Surely a CFO would have solved this with the margins she is turning over?