Is Eating Protein Bad for Your Kidneys? | Educational Video | Layne Norton PhD | Biolayne

[@TheBiggestDill]

My little brother was a lean 6'7" during his high school basketball career. He needed to bulk up. He needed more muscle. My dad decided not to give him additional protein because he read that high protein diets could damage the kidneys. I was baffled when he recently told me this. This is why videos like this are important. People need the points and counterpoints to form a well-rounded opinion.

[@user-ii7xc1ry3x]

How heavy was he?

[@travz21]

It's always obviously been bad science. Our ancestors would be eating 100+ grams of protein in one meal after each kill. If it was unhealthy we'd probably be extinct.

[@ShoppingEmail-dr1fs]

this just proves why people should always ask 'where did you see that information' and follow it up. high protein has never been shown to damage kidneys its only been restricted in people with kidney disease and in fact once they are on dialysis they are encouraged to eat a lot of protein as the machine is doing the work of their kidneys and it's needed for whole body health - your entire immune system is build with protein. But find any source article showing protein harming healthy kidneys there isn't any. Even that explorer who lived on meat for one year (fatty meat) had no kidney issues. the evidence has never been there that it hurts kidneys.

[@NoLegalPlunder]

For me, this is one of the most important channels on KZbin.

[@har.19]

Exactly.. even a lot of Dr Mike vids feel a bit pointless lately

[@ambinintsoahasina]

​​@@har.19you mean Dr Mike the medicine doctor or Dr Mike the bald muscular guy?

[@har.19]

@@ambinintsoahasina the taller one is alright, the shorter one not so much which sucks since his philosophical takes are actually legit

[@ambinintsoahasina]

@@har.19 I don't know which is taller 😂

[@jaghad]

That's sad. Layne is an arrogant p.... Go listen to Don Layman instead. Gabrielle Lion has him on from time to time. Bart Kay has debunked Layne several times on his nonsense. Layne doesn't dare to have a debate with him. Why is that you think? Because he would spank him and make him look like a fool in front of his audience.

[@linamoses3513]

As an epidemiologist I’m so tired of association studies being over interpreted or misrepresented as causal. First lecture in Epi 101: correlation does not mean causation! These are hypothesis-generating studies that justify more rigorous causal and mechanistic studies! Appreciate you calling this out.

[@manueldevall1251]

Thanks a lot Layne for always keeping us up to date in regards to the latest research

[@HarryZikosNY]

This channel needs 10 million subscribers. So much educational value in here

[@ch.k4580]

Thanks Dr. Norton. Really interesting insights. I have been reading up the literature about it, since my father has CKD and we were always very unsure about the protein intake. Now we learned something new again! Thanks for the breakdown!

[@Dale21B]

Thank you for this video. My kidney's failed while I was in Afghanistan in 2012(Kidney transplant in 2017). Doctors told me repeatedly to limit protein and not go over the RDA for protein. I stopped listening to a couple years ago and my blood results and eGFR(kidney function) has never been better. Protein heals and the body needs it, especially as we age.

[@GN-Spacy]

I'm a Stage 5 CKD patient. Was advised by my Nephrologist that I need heck loads of protein (11 to 14 exchanges) to prevent muscle loss (body losing on its protein daily). On the other hand, eating dark leafy vegetables like Spinach, increase the risk of heart attack due to the potassium inside them.

[@luka1790]

What potassium increases heart attack? But it also lowers bo😮

[@animallvr87]

Nooo.... that is wrong. High potassium can cause cardiac arrhythmias and potential cardiac arrest in kidney disease because kidneys help get rid of it and you guys are usually high. Potassium being too low can also cause cardiac arrthymias and death.

[@joelheath9902]

same here. Same results I’m at end stage bc of an autoimmune disease. They encourage me to keep Prtn up. For these very reasons. The medical industry for the most part are nutrition retarded.

[@fp4782]

3,500-4,700 mg needed a day. Not really easy to get too much potassium.

[@jonshick5661]

As a DO, yeah it’s a rhythm thing, k doesn’t cause MI

[@jshbbrt]

Appreciate this man. Hearing to decrease protein, at my fathers visit, when he hardly eat anything close to average, is really frustrating. The man is old, he needs his protein!

[@farhat5325]

Better bring the study to your doctor before you make any changes

[@theotower268]

Weird. Its common medical knowledge that older people need to eat a protein rich diet.

[@shantanusapru]

It is possible that the more profound effect of plant protein (w.r.t. animal protein) could be due to the fact that plant protein is often associated with increased fibre (which has consistently shown positive effects on ACM (All Cause Mortality)), and also, that this paper does not seem to control for total caloric intake -- animal protein is often associated with more total calories (which has consistently shown negative effects on ACM)...

[@gilhuberman261]

OMG when you said "randomized control trials" in a normal voice I legit lost touch with reality for a second

[@seamussullivan2218]

Was a crazy moment for sure.

[@Samuraibo]

Same

[@remy8587]

8:27 what you say here is equally valid for plan based protein intake values: they show greater risk reduction but its probably because they are a proxy for people eating more fibers, more vegetables, more healthy overall

[@bonozil]

thank you Dr Layne

[@josho.9530]

As someone with S2 CKD, I NEEDED THIS. Would think that proteinuria would be a WAY bigger concern than creatinine levels.

[@sirgilbert357]

Four thee Al Gore rhythm!!! Great video man, thank you for all you do!

[@vahidFazelian]

Very fruitful piece of information

[@redeemerbytes5896]

Awesome information!

[@PetarVasilev29]

Would be interesting to see Layne's perspective on the recent study cited by Milo Wolf

[@bobwheeler8101]

Super helpful info.

[@LandryFitNutrition]

big up from France

[@thepurplebox380]

So here's the question I have: We now have the studies to prove it. How does it flow down to the doctors? How long does it take before my doctor stops saying "That much protein is bad for you."

[@Mr._Wonderful_was_taken]

About 10 years for “ideas”, 20 years for “procedures”

[@marcinmrzyglocki]

@@Mr._Wonderful_was_taken optimistic take.

[@travz21]

It'll never happen. They're still telling overweight people to stay away from red meat and eat more carbs instead. They still think creatine damages kidneys. Doctors don't understand nutrition.

[@DrSpooglemon]

1.2 grams per kilo is equal to 0.55 grams per pound. We are talking about fairly small amounts of protein here compared with the 1 gram per pound that is advised for muscle synthesis. It doesn't surprise me that the kidneys probably function less well when protein intake is minimized to below half a gram per pound given that the kidneys are made of protein. This does not imply that ever increasing protein intake beyond say 1.6 grams per pound is a) beneficial in any way; b) not going to put a strain on your kidneys.

[@remy8587]

No but its only in the states that we hear « 1g per pound » and this has never been substantiated by any study, in fact in most advanced study we find that there almost no effect of protein intake once you exceed 1.5g/kg. Even at that level its for high level athletes. 1g per pound sounds catchy and sells more I guess, but its the US overdoing it again and there’s no science backing the claim.

[@DrSpooglemon]

@@remy8587 1 gram per pound is for hypertrophy not general protein requirements. In any case, this is entirely besides the point. This video is supposed to be about the effects of HIGH protein intake on kidney function. Half a gram per pound of body weight is not high.

[@remy8587]

@@DrSpooglemon it is though. Maybe not by « one gram per pound » gym bro standards, but in general. The recommended RDA is 0.8g/kg (0.36 per pound). So 1.2, a 50% increase from RDA is indeed high and most people don’t get to those levels daily.

[@dr.mohamed2627]

Magnificent 👏

[@helios4425]

I remember when I did bodybuilding in my younger days, I would eat over 300-350 grams of protein a day. I started to get protein in my urine, so I lowered it down to my body weight of 220 ish and it went away. So I always had this question, was it damaging my kidneys or just spilling over because it was too much to handle.

[@toddb3394]

How does that happen? Like someone at the grocery store was peeing in your 93/7 ground? Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[@davorzdralo8000]

How did you know you had protein in urin? Honestly, that doesn't even make sense to me, even if it's wasted, it should leave your stomach as amino acids, not actual protein.

[@helios4425]

@@davorzdralo8000 I did an urine test as part of my yearly physical. I rested 6 weeks and it was negative. The tests checks for the amino acid albumin in the urine.

[@toddb3394]

@davorzdralo8000 a basic physical should include a urine test to check for protein. I take a DOT physical every 2 yrs and they check for protein.

[@MrLuckytrucker21]

In most cases, if you have protein in your urine, you have type 2 diabetes! Docs check that when I get a dot physical!

[@sgill4833]

Plants have lower isoleucine valine and methionine which all increase aging and mortality. That's why I use pea, hemp, pumpkin protein and fish. And Algae.

[@cheliospanama9786]

Great Video! Thank you 🔥👏💪🫶

[@usnairframer]

I have Thin Basement Membrane Syndrome in my kidneys, so I've always been worried about this. As much as I try to work out and stay fit, I will say that when I eat close to the "correct" level of protein, the worse I feel. And I don't even aim for 1 gram per lean pound, I was aiming for .7 grams. So closer to 180 grams per day. Which was still a pain to reach. I wonder if there are other reasons why I would feel like shit when eating higher levels of protein?

[@stephenperry5972]

Good man. Keep it up.

[@Reewnat]

This is a good video, but this study is for 60 yrs and above. Higher LDL is also good for elderly, but that is due to malnutrition. When adjusted for malnutrition, LDL levels are more aligned with regular advice. Could that be the same for protein?

[@perserverance333]

Not sure, but I cannot drink protein powder with sucralose, which puts me to sleep. Only all natural powders.

[@Mr._Wonderful_was_taken]

Fish are nutritionally magical 👍🏼

[@2ndstreetmarvel]

💪🏿Let’s go!💪🏿

[@twinhealthnut]

I completely agree that high protein intake does not harm a healthy kidney. However, this new study does not show a lack of kidney function decline in chronic kidney disease (CKD) patients with higher protein intake. It just shows a reduction in all cause mortality. Kidney failure is not the most common cause of mortality in people with kidney disease. Thus, it is possible that older adults with early stage chronic kidney disease (CKD) and greater protein intake had a greater decline in kidney function, but were less likely to die from other causes. There are randomized controlled trials showing greater decline in kidney function with moderate protein intake (>1g/kg) compared to low protein intake (0.6-0.8g/kg), though the effect size does not appear to be that huge. These randomized controlled trials lasted an average of 2 years and did not show a difference in all cause mortality between the 2 groups. This new observational study adds a new piece of data that needs to be considered when CKD patients and clinicians discuss the risks and benefits of low protein diets to manage CKD. Though I would like this to be confirmed by a randomized controlled trial, randomized controlled trials may not be able to detect a real increased risk of all cause mortality with protein restriction due to their shorter follow-up and smaller number of subjects. I regularly get referrals from nephrologists to review low protein diets for stage 3a and 3b CKD. Since reading this study I have informed them there may possibly be an increased risk in all cause mortality with restricting protein intake. To my suprise, many patients still want to procede with a low protein diet to help possibly delay or prevent dialysis, even if it may increase their risk of death from any cause. For some people with CKD the fear of eventually needing dialysis is greater than the fear of death. Either way, we are talking about a modest risk and a modest benefit. Though this study showed quite a significant relative risk reduction in death with the highest level of protein intake, the absolute risk reduction appears to be fairly modest. The possible reduction in the decline of kidney function with protein restriction also appears to be very modest.

[@rbw137]

"...this study showed quite a significant relative risk reduction in death with the highest level of protein intake, ..." I'm concerned about how the data was modeled. If you haven't already done so, you might enjoy reading "Dietary intake of total, animal, and plant proteins and risk of all cause, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality: systematic review and dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies" (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32699048/) The authors in this study found a non-linear dose-response relationship between protein intake and all-cause mortality that followed the typical biological J-curve when plotting different types of mortality risk against different inputs. One of the nine J-curves in the article showed that the lowest all-cause mortality risk was associated with protein intake of about 18% of total daily kcals consumed. Any lower or higher protein consumption than 18% of daily kcal consumed and the risk for all-cause mortality increased. This makes intuitive sense: too little protein is bad for you and too much protein is bad for you. J-curves are frequently observed for biological phenomena, for example all-cause mortality vs salt consumption also exhibits a J-curve. However, a different conclusion would be reached if a linear regression model was used to fit the data (as also shown in the paper referenced above). The linear model showed that the risk of all-cause mortality decreased as protein consumption increased. From a statistical point of view, the J-curve explains the data better than the linear model, so I find it hard to accept the premise that "you can never get enough" when it comes to protein consumption. On the contrary, there was a paper published in "Nephrology Dialysis Transplantation" in 2020 (academic.oup.com/ndt/article/35/1/1/5614387) that details the physiological mechanism responsible for kidney damage from a high protein diet. The authors report on a 41-month study of 2255 patients which found that "...the lower the DPI [dietary protein intake], the slower the rate of eGFR decline over time. Additional analyses showed that patients with a daily total protein intake ≥1.2 g/kg/day had a 2-fold faster annual kidney function decline compared with

[@GrampalettasCamp]

Love your reviews with scientific data! This is good to know. And what about higher levels of protein? I’m 70 and 70 kg 12% body fat running 20-30 miles a week requiring 2700 kcal/d to keep from losing weight. It’s hard to eat less than 120g/d on my WFPB +dairy+fish diet or 1.7 g/kg. Can my kidney stone ravaged kidneys tolerate that? So far my eGFR is only getting higher. Good right?

[@PaintDryLifting]

The doctors who tell you not to eat protein are usually the same ones who claim that creatinine based eGFR is a valid metric for bodybuilders

[@aquahero]

Powerfull.

[@arezmahzouni9639]

Came straight to the comments to see comments about that patch of beard

[@livephysiology]

Perhaps this video highlights the importance of exposing false wisdom when it comes to health. For example, with weight lifting, beginners often feel severe soreness. False wisdom may say the soreness is due to injured muscles and weight lifting should be avoided to let the muscles heal. When the truth is that continuing the weight lifting program would be best to prevent soreness from occurring again. Similarly, the idea that the kidneys need rest, so protein consumption should be minimized can be false wisdom, as it lacks the backing of scientific data.

[@Moped_Mike]

My dad is stage 4A and I can’t get him enough protein, so he losing muscle mass. It’s tough. All the studies exclude Stage 4, but he’s been Stage 4 for over 5 years, and actually went backwards from 4B to 4A. If you or anyone can help, it would be appreciated.

[@ppqp83]

He Is must likely in a metabolic imbalance. Try ketogenic or, if possible, carnivore (it can be hard to accept) but with a HIGH emphasis on enough FAT (70-80% of calories). Muscle loss can be indicative of not enough caloric intake, check his BUN in blood work. Also checkout Dr. Robert Cywes here in YT Wish your father a full & prompt recovery. God bless

[@garyjford1981]

Great video. How would this translate to people with gout? I’m assuming also positive as people with or without CKD benefit. Thanks.

[@remy8587]

7:46 meat data is better than fish’s so I dont get why its supposed to be less significant

[@bigal6114]

Layne at his best. 👋👋👋

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

So, palm and coconut oils are bad ?

[@mybigboogerable]

For the algorithm!!! 💯💪

[@xNeatx]

Enjoy the videos. Oh, nice start on the neck beard! "Bold strategy ..."

[@ericzarahn9343]

Hazard ratio is not the same as risk.

[@Alper88]

Hi Layne could you also make a video about eggs and their benefits or downsides? Thanks

[@Tuotzie]

Almost all upsides, only downside would be fat content maybe, if it doesnt fit your dietary needs

[@1m2ogaming]

The only downside is saturated fats content.

[@travz21]

@@1m2ogaming That's not a downside.

[@rpg32tamu]

You just said yourself that it isn't likely the protein causing the protective effect, so it is still possible that protein can be hard on the kidneys. This study seems to be suggesting that the protein source is the important factor, not the protein itself. I'd be curios to know what it is about plant protein sources that could be contributing in such a positive way to protecting the kidneys.

[@Corkfish1]

How were plant proteins administered to the subjects? Was it actual plants or was it a powder. Like pea protein?

[@sandrapeverelle8066]

Layne's maths is a little off. A 33% reduction not 23 % in CKD comparing 0.8g/kg/d to 1.6g/kg/d

[@aprilhassell1747]

My efgr last year was 90 ...this year its 67...i feel no different. I am upping my water intake. And peeing 2 liters a day. I do eat meat eggs chicken steak

[@scottlei4]

I find this interesting and it demonstrates the lack of consistent nutritional information given by medical professionals. For example, I am a 50+ y/o kidney donor and outside of the "do not take" medicine list, the only other recommendation I received was to increase my protein intake.

[@bottlenecks]

Just curious, why do you say "reduce the risk of mortality" instead of just "reduce mortality"? Thanks.

[@luaythomas2729]

Curious to know if strength training helps minimize the work on the kidneys to process protein? I.e if an increase in muscle protein synthesis can help use up amino acids and thus reduces how hard the kidneys have to work.

[@RoyalBloodBath936]

That’s interesting. I hope someone (professional)that’s in the comments answers .

[@jassy0903]

I appreciate your ability to take a very complex technical issue and break it down. However, I don't think many of us are concerned that protein is going to kill us therefore looking at mortality is kind of irrelevant. I am very surprised that researchers included those with and without CKD. These are two very different groups that probably shouldn't be in the same study. What we need to know is whether a high protein diet could make their kidney disease worse ie the GFR decreases for those already in stages 1 through 3. For those individuals, you're not advanced enough to die from your disease anyway. You're not even advanced enough to qualify for dialysis. And as we know once you're on dialysis, you do have to increase your protein because the machine will take so much out of your blood. Not to mention that the majority of those with chronic kidney disease do so because of their high blood pressure obesity and diabetes. I really appreciate your mention of confounding variables because, in this case, there are way too many for the results to be taken seriously, in my opinion.

[@jayfinn6698]

Okay that's true it eat my fish with a half of stick of butter on it because it taste good and protein without fat sucks.

[@MaureenFennelly-in3vr]

Do you still take glucosamine ?

[@the_notorious_bas]

Comparing the 'effects' from various protein sources never made sense to me. If these 'effects' are really caused by proteins, then why not look at the 'effects' from individual amino acids? (if possible)

[@aydinsmaj]

4D ALgorithm

[@SevenCostanza]

Love how youtube fitness and nutrition is so big and yet everyone here is fat or skinny fat

[@jshbbrt]

Would really appreciate your knowledge on the dangers of testosterone, after prostate cancer treatment. It makes no sense to have all your testosterones removed, when its something your body needs. Especially if your over 60

[@ghostman824]

I wanna see a study on super high like 5 to 6x bodyweight. See what it does then and if they lose weight to full to eat carbs n fats lol. I get to this end of a diet phase to keep full

[@helios4425]

The only side effect I can see is proteinuria aka protein in urine. How do I know ? Because I used to eat over 350 grams of protein a day for a few months. When I lowered it down to 200, it went away. My doctor said the high protein was causing the kidneys to hyper filter my blood/ urine.

[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

Got it. Can't eat carbs. Can't eat fat. And now I can't eat protein. Instead, I'll just stand outside in a corn field and ask the plants to help me photosynthesize the sunlight for energy.

[@NMS_Transform]

Did you watch the video?

[@Hibiscus_001]

You completely missed the point of this video.

[@NMS_Transform]

@@Hibiscus_001 did I?

[@NMS_Transform]

@@Hibiscus_001eating more protein is protective to the kidneys and plant based protein is more protective probably due to the fibre not the protein. What did I miss?

[@Ondrej.U]

You shouldn't stay at sunlight, you know. Sunburns, melanoma, UV damage to your cells...

[@FlockoftheGreyShepherd]

Good to know, I've only got one kidney and have been told by doctors to watch my protein intake but always felt conflicted about it. And holy moly - eat more plants!

[@stevenedmunds2018]

Bump 💪🏼

[@lukeeverett6768]

For the algorithm!

[@bixcool3346]

My offering to the great and powerful algorithm

[@sidious-dy9rh]

There's a lot of people that eat fish because there's a lot of coastline. Its a staple in a lot of diets I wouldn't say it because people who are health conscious eat more fish.

[@edwardsjeffreyj]

Algorithm comment!!! 🎉

[@arezmahzouni9639]

Plant protein FTW 😁

[@remy8587]

You misread the study

[@arezmahzouni9639]

@remy8587 how?

[@remy8587]

@@arezmahzouni9639 plant protein are not necessarily better in and of themselves, he does point it out as some point in the video

[@arezmahzouni9639]

@@remy8587 Plants FTW

[@yanzhuk]

Glad I didn't take my mom's advice and reduce my protein intake 💪🫁

[@dmitriwitharana6465]

We ever gonna get another front double bicep for the algorithm?

[@MichelThibodeau-o1e]

🎉

[@gladis5744]

What about people with 1 kidney ?

[@noggintube]

Fava beans and a nice Chianti (I know it's liver but go with it 😉).

[@user-ii7xc1ry3x]

That's a great question

[@maxmaximus5522]

❤

[@gokukakarot1855]

For the algorithm?

[@Keepitcurious1685]

❤❤❤

[@knutevids]

FTA

[@K1NG931]

American health system about to have American athletes built like a paper towel roll

[@andrewzach1921]

Comment foooorrrr the algorithm

[@thecaptain2118]

What's funny is that he dismisses epidemiology for one study in this video, while also using a epidemiology study to prove his point. 🤣🤣 Epidemiology is garbage science; full stop

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

What foods were the people on the lower protein diets getting most of their calories from? There are not that many whole foods that are very low in protein on a protein per calorie basis. Fruits perhaps. Was their fiber and calorie intake also tracked? That could help determine if the calories were coming from low/high protein whole foods or refined foods.

[@sanathanasis5022]

Algoooo

[@SeuOu]

Well, I guess my 2.2g/kg/d has me covered 😅

[@bennyandthejets9247]

The study you cited focuses on adults above 60 and the total mortality rate of the group was 10.19% over ten years. Having a 50 to 60% reduction in mortality rate of sixty year olds isn't super applicable to most of the population in my opinion and a 60% reduction in best case, where someone eats the best of the best according to this study, it only reduces your chance of death by 6% which isn't changing your chances of death significantly in my opinion. Most people think 5% is a reasonable estimate for gauging statistical significance vs insignificance and 6% is barely bigger than 5 percent. I feel like there are more pressing issues for people to be dealing with than this particular issue.

[@flexlikeag]

Fta

[@ElielMalgo]

Second 😁🤩

[@HankAUT]

really hoping that Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies here before watching that :p

[@scottshafer9813]

Al gore rithem

[@SteveAbernethyCFA]

Says the guy selling protein supplements.

[@FRC93]

No, actually the researchers in the paper he cites said this. Go read it.

[@Dan14833]

So, MD’s wrong again?

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

No, just working with old data and, yes, some are too stubborn to update their knowledge.

[@mango850]

Layne, only reason I down-tapped is you're a bit too....overwrought on the front end

[@perserverance333]

At 180 lbs, all I need is about 120 grams of protein daily.

[@MohseenLala]

Talk shit about the carnivore diet now, lol.

[@Mario-forall]

So guidelines and doctors have been recommending the opposite of what would make people healthy (low fat diet for diabetics, delaying introduction of possible allergens, low protein for kidney disease, etc.)? Imagine my shock. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about my "high" cholesterol then.

[@Alejandro-Te]

Do you know what has a protective effect? Fruits and vegetables. You don't limit your protein because protein is harmful, it is because the best foods have adequate protein and no more. Conversely, high protein sources are associated with negative health outcomes.

[@Gobbete]

It's because most high protein sources (high bioavailability protein) also have saturated fat.

[@jamie5mauser]

Layne beating that dead horse

[@GayBearDaddy2]

Bro's just doing his weekly research review.

[@jcrhea001]

Are you sure it's dead?

[@danielswart5168]

Just a protein source to help the kidneys

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

There are still tons of people that say protein is bad for your kidneys, even actual medical doctors. Also, this is a new study that has interesting information specifically related to people with kidney disease, which goes against the current consensus. So, this horse is very much alive and kicking.

[@danielswart5168]

@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 No, Layne is beating a live horse? Someone call PETA!

[@theperipateticgumshoe9047]

Big protein shill.

[@Duffy21290]

You dont like protein?

[@theperipateticgumshoe9047]

@@Duffy21290It was a joke.

[@Duffy21290]

@@theperipateticgumshoe9047 I was playing along

[@fdddff47]

That must be the most generic fitness channel with the most generic topis out there.

[@joeraguso5376]

Go back to watching Bart Kay you simpleton

[@gokukakarot1855]

For the algorithm?