Is the HP OfficeJet Pro 8600, 8610, 8620 Printhead Really Missing or Damaged?

[@AKAKiddo]

Great video. Thanks for your efforts and research. I've cleaned the contacts. Replaced the small circuit board, but no luck. I'm off to buy a refurbished printhead. Update - after seeing how much a refurbished printhead cost, $100, and there is no certainty that that will fix the problem, I decided I'll just buy a new printer.

[@m1656]

In case a new printhead also fails, try to exchange the internal battery as well. To begin with, thank you for all this information, great video and also great discussions! I had the same problem "printhead missing ..." and first tried the “contacts cleaning” options shown on another tutorial. It did not help me. Then I exchanged the printhead for a brand new version (140 €), also to no effect. As the error message blocks all further interaction with the printer menu, I could not reset the printer (HP Officejet pro 276DW.) Therefore, in a last try, I decided to exchange the battery (CR 2032) that is installed on the main circuit board. In this exchange I also had to loosen three plugs from the circuit board to reach the battery on the back. The result: - New battery with old printhead: same error message - New battery with new printhead (the one that I had tried unsuccessfully before): printer works!! - Old battery still has 3.15 V, so did not seem at “end of life” yet. I am a bit puzzled why I achieved this result. Perhaps my printer required both a new printhead and a reset. And perhaps the reset was brought about by the battery exchange or by the loosening of plugs? As for the old printhead, I have no idea what's wrong, perhaps it's just like you described in this video.

[@robertm3490]

try unplugging it from the back while its turned on then before restarting hold power button to drain the capacitors charge. when you plug it back in it will try and start on its own hold the power button to enter settings then do audit then power again. it helped me.

[@marct9587]

@@robertm3490 Thanks, I tried that but still get the "missing or failed printhead" message.

[@Spartacusse]

Hi, since this is the most technical video on the subject I'd like to share my experience, my printhead has normal resistance on the resistor and the printer keeps saying the printhead is missing or faulty. I know my printhead must be ok, because after rebooting the printer many times, I was able to get one perfect print, and then it went back to printhead missing, the printhead cannot be damaged if it can produce a perfect print. After almost 2 years with the printer stored away a friend gave to me his old printer which had the same problem, only he hadn't updated the firmware. I swapped mainboards and like magic, my printhead is printing again, same printer, same internal mechanisms, cables, pins, connectors, only swapped the main board. My old (updated firmware) board, refuses all printheads, his board still rejects his printhead but has already printed more than 2k pages on mine. This is very clearly Programmed obsolescence. That's why printer manufacturers pump out so many different models every year, as to not get too many people owning any single model and running the risk of them figuring out their shady business and suing them. I'll try to find an other old printer, and by playing "merry go round" with boards and printheads, I can deceive HP's scheme and have the printer working for the amount of time it should have (until wear and tear breaks it physically).

[@girlmomma4]

I had the same error on mine, and purchased a new print head assembly, but now I am getting the error message "there is a problem with the printer or ink system." Can you help?

[@Spartacusse]

@@girlmomma4 The only thing I can suggest is to try and find an other main board and replace it, preferably with an old firmware (those ones that asks if the cartridges were sold as original and if you say yes it fries the cartridges chips, always paying attention to say NO), even if it's from a printer in the same condition (rejecting it's own printhead) it will probably work with yours, just because it's a different one. Other than that, try to roll back the board's firmware, unfortunately, because they keep pumping out newer printer models, there isn't much information out there on how to do firmware rollbacks in any specific printer.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

@@girlmomma4 I've made a video specifically on that error!

[@ronvalley1973]

@@girlmomma4 was your new print head assembley 80 dollars?

[@simplybs9311]

@@Spartacusse Bro I came to the same realization, the boards store the errors and prevent the use of them. I repair printers for a living and I got ironically two of the same office jet printers at same time in my workshop both with different errors. One had the print head locked in right corner of the printer and the next had a printhead is missing error. I always suspected that the main boards caused the issues more than just the printhead. So I swapped boards and the errors switched places in the printers they were put in. I was able to get the printhead to move but it was "missing or failing" and the other one locked into the corner. I'm glad that someone else was able to solidify my assumptions.

[@junkmauler]

I'm a tech repair person... Get this, I've been struggling with my 8610 "Problem with the ink system yada yada error" and cleaned the printhead etc, it would never get past the setup part printing the initial page, always showed there was a problem with the print system. So I unplugged my 8610, and held the power button down while plugging it back in, releasing the power button when the LED above the USB port comes on. You will enter a secret manufacture mode and the Home, ? and Back LEDs next to your screen should show up. Press Home, Back, Home, Home, Back to enter MFG mode. Then I chose the MFG option and the printer showed a grid on the screen with a progress bar.. so I decided to check the web interface of the printer, the web interface now shows it as a "HP Officejet Pro 8500 A909g"??? So then I telnet to port 9100, type a few lines of garbage in, and the printed PRINTED IT OUT! Then it returned to the menu system with no errors at all! I'm doing more testing but I just had to stop and share this, as I thought my print head was hosed! (and maybe it still is, lets see if I can print from PC now lol) Under these secret menus is also the FULL reset option which could help some people!

[@junkmauler]

Update: It won't accept print jobs from a PC in this mode, but it will make copies! Going to reboot it now, do a full reset and see if my print head and cartridges work now, fingers crossed! I also did a clean print head operation while I had it up and operational.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Hi Joseph :) thank you for sharing your experience. Did you have only an "ink system failure" or it showed even a printhead missing or damaged error? I've made another video about the first error, but with a different solution than the one you suggested, but as far as I know there's no way actually to clear the error "Printhead missing or damaged"

[@junkmauler]

@@PaoloMarcelli Was only an ink system failure. It looks like the test mode doesn't really fix the problem but ignores it. In fact I don't think it checks the sensors at all so if you run in this mode, it may print.. but it also may burn out the print head.

[@janbill79]

Thank you , so so so ,much. It was the (hold power button down, while plugging it back in, releasing the power button when ect. that got me out of looking at that error message & nothing else. So I needed a secreat code. "No", I wouldn't of ever figured that out! ( I did the full reset)& WHen I seen the carriage move over when I opened the ink door. I knew it was back. So Now I know "never do a partial reset", or it puts u in that stuck on/ lock out thing,of, looking at the error messge and locked out of everything else.

[@MetalSam25]

God bless you, thank you so much!!!

[@Davvv67]

My 8620 just gave me this error this morning completely out of nowhere. Best part is according to the HP warranty page, I started using the printer on March 1st 2016. It lasted 5 years to the day. Quite the coincidence.

[@-familypeeps-9075]

Exactly the same case scenario over here!

[@kenhoever8245]

And exactly the same scenario with mine, 5 yrs give or take. Coincidence

[@kulanchandrasekaran4462]

Great video. You have spent a lot of time and effort and saved us a lot of time and effort! I have the same printhead problem with HP Office Jet 8600 Pro, removed head, cleaned, replaced, no luck. Was about to spend time trying to repair it, but thanks to this video, will skip trying to repair. Printhead nearly 200 dollars, new printer just another hundred dollars away. Plus no guarantee a new printhead will fix the problem. Going to buy a new printer. Thanks again for a great video. Only people who have done this kind of work can appreciate your efforts. Ignore the negative comments, don’t waste time replying to those. Thanks again for a great video, keep up the good work!

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Those heads are not reliable unfortunately and they cost a lot D: Thanks

[@YT2007XYZ]

Paolo, I personally love the efforts made here. I’m of the mindset that if “man made it, man can fix it”, but clearly this is not always the case, but like so many people, they’re never curious enough to take the time to try. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fixed things that lasted many more years when my wife just said “Throw it out!” It’s the challenge that keeps me going. Also love how you get back at commenters who don’t like your music, or why you didn’t get to the point sooner. Oh, yeah, I’d vote for losing the music too….so now you can tell me to F$$$-off. Great video in any case! I’ll be subscribing and watching your other videos.

[@thepackage8523]

I had a clogged print head about two years and the video got me through that. Now I've gotten a 'Print head failure' issue, + multiple other messages about one cartridge position, the cyan, causing an 'ink system or printer failure'. I have taken the entire print head apart. I have found that I am missing one of the eight extremely small springs between the green circuit board and the back of the print head where they contact each other - and it is one of the two for cyan. I've been trying to find a source to purchase the springs - they are probably worth about $.05 in reality. I found one source where I could purchase them (8 for $7.99), which is in China, will take a good amount of time to get here, and I am not inclined to buy from China at the present time and climate. Any resource that you can recommend? I can buy a 'dead' print head for parts for around $30.00, to get one darn spring. Is that my only alternative? This is a HP Officejet Pro 8600. Appreciate any advice. Thanks, Sue

[@rfjgfude]

I did buy a replacement printhead from ebay and the printer still gives me a 'Problem with print head ' :(

[@petemottram1221]

The title of your video brings so much hope. After watching your diagnosis for 10 minutes I really didn't expect your conclusion to be "it's a waste of time, buy a new one" you could have said that at the start!

[@PaoloMarcelli]

If I did, no one would watch the video, just get to the 20 seconds mark and leave XD

[@SimbaAliaye]

@@PaoloMarcelli Very educational. Thanks for taking the time to shoot it. New printer it is!

[@MrRustyB100]

@@PaoloMarcelli also known as #clickbait

[@azaniatutoria]

THIS IS KZbin PEOPLE ARE MAKING MONEY WHEN YOU WATCH THE VIDEOS

[@iliaszissiadis1167]

hallo man i need your help , i have hp 7612 the head is the left one like this in your video, i need your opinion the printer is not recognize the head something problem with head or communication i have this problem 3 times with 2 heads are from from aliexpress the most are Refurbised , i have change the cables with new i check the contacts and the resistance of the cables and i change the board with other with the same firmware , the same problem ,all the contacts are clean but , i check the Ωms of the cables the original black cable is 80cm and has 0,24 Ω and this white i find in aliexpress is 80cm but is 0,3 Ω maybe is the printer is so sensitive the and don't recognise the head i dont know, the printer its meke error dint recognise , i add even magnet to cable , but nothing , do i have any idea ? i spent so mach money with this printer

[@jjjackson5655]

I have 3 printheads and 2 printers. One of the printhead works. The 2nd one will say that magenta, cyan, and black are faulty, even though the ink was used on a known printhead. It will sometimes get to the align paper, but it never finishes it. The last one isn't recognized by the printer at all. I haven't tried the other printer yet.

[@ofonipa5706]

I can help you fix that issue

[@BellaVita100]

Buon lavoro!!!Grazie mille da America per questo video..

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Thank you!!

[@wildnlovinlife7708]

When items are designed and built today they are designed to fail at a particular time, it’s called “obsolescent engineering”.

[@dgshen]

totally agree. No matter how green the company is marketing.

[@ingotransalpfahrer2370]

I am stuck with the same error on 8620, and did all the tricks I could find. There are several comments now, that even getting new print head did not resolve the problem. Do you have an ebay or Ali link with print head working for sure? Otherwise thinking about what kind of printer with duplex print and duplex ADF for homeoffice would be good alternative.... Brother? Epson?

[@meitetsusai3787]

A great discover of this type of the HP9xx series! I am using HP OJ Pro 7740 and usually have printing problems with the 95x printhead. It always be damaged some of nozzles, the most one is the yellow nozzle, after I executed bulky printing-work. This series printhead is RATHER FRAGILE. I consulted a mechanic that he said the reason is owing the heat-bobbled printing technology causing low durability of bulk printing tasks. He recommends that I should choice EPSON or Brother and those are more capable to handle numerous tasks in a short time .

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Sure!!! Piezoelectric printheads are way superior than thermal inkjet.

[@marct9587]

Yes, so my 8620 was printing just fine today and then all of a sudden we get the "printhead missing or damaged" message on the screen. I closely inspected the print head springs that the cartridges make contact with and they are all in the right position. I then cleaned all the contact pads on both sides of the little control board, but to no avail. So, I checked on a new HP print head and the price is $160. Well, I can buy a new HP OfficeJet Pro 6978 for $169.99 which also includes some cartridges. I guess these HP printers are just throw away printers.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

But... Why HP? it's the worst brand for repairability, they're unreliable

[@RemmikRotus]

What’s with the death metal in the background? I don’t mind it in other settings but really not needed here.

[@wepost4u17]

thanks for your time and effort. Very useful video, sometimes the best solution is not solution at all, which is a result as well. Sending my support from Cuba.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Thank you Daniel :)

[@georgeearlmartin1206]

Is it possible to get a copy of your meter reading of the good print head

[@burkeyvision4346]

maybe pause the video?

[@rover1722]

Good Job Keep it up I was about to do exactly the same thing today I'm so glad I came across your video Thank You

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Thank You :3

[@mopinwil]

Thank you for your time and effort. Saved me a lot of time. I won't try to resucitate my HP inkjet Pro 8600

[@MonarchGuy974]

One question. Will buying a new printhead fix the “Missing or Failed Printhead” Error?

[@ericnoel9573]

Hi @ButterflyWhisperer I did purchase a new genuine HP head, with no luck. Despite some encouraging behavior like the automated filling of the reservoir and some cryptic messages from the printer, it ultimately did not work and the error message is still displayed. Up to the point I am wondering if there is nothing « broken » on the cradle it-self. I went ultimately for a new printer (a laser color) while crying my 135 Eur/160$ ecological attempt to fix it…Good luck!

[@MonarchGuy974]

@@ericnoel9573 I bought a new printhead and it works. thank God as it was $180!

[@ericnoel9573]

@@MonarchGuy974 Glad to read it did solve your issue. Lots of feedback I had read so far were not as positive. Take care!

[@elwaemtrading8488]

I am facing another kind of problems with these model of print-head beside the problem you mention , Some times 1 nose is completely clogged and cannot clean it by any way by inject warm water through the clogged nose as it work most of time when noses are clogged but for some reason some times I am facing a total clogged nose that I try every thing possible to unclogged by warm or hot water injection but its completely blocked which cause losing a complete print-head , So any ideas how to fix this

[@johnunder7168]

I watched a video about your problem just before this one. I think it was How to power clean officejet 8600. The creator sells a cleaning solution.

[@mitchellbuzzard6666]

Solvents.soaking. gentle agitation. Time. Maybe 90% isopropyl alcohol...best guess.

[@lindao7887]

I dunno, I think a printer that works for more than ten years is doing a great job. My 8600 is doing just that and still prints like it's brand new. Heck, do most computers last that long nowadays? But, thank you for your time and research.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

I'm not saying that every 8600 series printer is flawed, just that the majority of them are :) if your printer is working since 10 years just fine it's great :)

[@kenqks_log]

MY printed head damage for PRO 8610, How to fix up, can help. Cannot understand the video

[@davidbinning5554]

Changed printhead hp 8600 but printer won't realign. Paragraphs offset and margins off.sny suggestions

[@jamesmchardy9437]

i have had success in getting round this problem, using as a basis your pointing out that the pins in the cable ribbon may be faulty. I pressed down on the cable ribbon just above the resin, and the printer is now working again!

[@SimbaAliaye]

wow

[@azaniatutoria]

DONT JOKE LIKE THAT ?

[@burkeyvision4346]

Great Video! Thank you! So if I am understanding you correctly, a OL reading on J10, 4 would indicate a likely break in the ribbon cable from the board to the head...which would mean bad print head?

[@PaoloMarcelli]

For my experience, yes. O.L for resistance measurement means also "open line", there's a break.

[@burkeyvision4346]

@@PaoloMarcelli thank you so very much for your help and this video!!!

[@Spartacusse]

Hi, thank you very much for the video. Now that you know which pin is the culprit, can't you just remove the resin only on the very end and re-solder only that pin? I also have one of those saying it's missing, it's the same printhead, but the printer is an 8100 pro. Just checked mine, 0.950v on j10 pin 4, so, not the same problem.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Hi! c: Yes I could definitely try, but I don't have another one of those printheads actually so I can't, I'll definitely try when I'll get one with the same problem. Paolo M.

[@Jamesome966]

Hi. I changed my 6830 printer head. Machine shows no error but still unable to print document

[@Jamesome966]

Anyone know what is the issue. Tried print head alinement only cyan printed out. Call cartridges are new

[@4144758]

Thanks for the hard work. Saved me the costly curiosity they would have made my wife go ape shit

[@mickva3epm12]

Thanks for the video, saved me a lot of time

[@kevinatkab5219]

Perhaps, if you heat the glob of resin with a heat gun, it might soften enough to peel it off in one piece.

[@robertm3490]

you think after it was apart you could just run jumpers from the board to the wires instead of trying to solder them in such a way.

[@gregf.2698]

Bought a new printhead (refurb). Still get the same error. Any suggestions??

[@azaniatutoria]

I BELIEVE ITS FIRMWARE NOW

[@armsr01m]

Some people know how to fix the “Missing or Failed Printhead” problem now. They just attach a cheap electronical part to the head to fix it. That's all I know. They didn't open the skill yet. But, I think it's important fact that there is a way.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Would be interesting to know what part they connect, and where :)

[@junkmauler]

I'm also interested in what your talking about here, can you link some documentation???

[@clark87]

oh! great if~

[@joshm4max]

Yeah I think in korea they jump some pins but they only repair if a customer walks in..

[@fredericsidler]

I have the same problem (8620) but I'm wondering if I should changer the printhead or buy a new printer. Where do you find the parts? I cannot find them.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Hi! You can find the printhead on AliExpress or eBay, buying a new printer generates waste, as your actual one will end up in a landfill :(

[@fredericsidler]

ADCSFXworks i

[@ingotransalpfahrer2370]

@@PaoloMarcelli do you have a Ali link with print head working for sure? There are several comments now, that even getting new print head did not resolve the problem. I am stuck with the same error on 8620, and did all the tricks I could find.

[@aishacansler8183]

My 8610 says "cartridge problem" with all new cartridges. I want to scan to email but can't get around the error message.

[@cantonguinness]

@aishaCansler just use the HP scan and capture software it will run even with a faulty printhead.

[@sanjay4real]

very informative and helpful video...cheers from Canada :)

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Thank you!!! Paolo M.

[@Shmbler]

This vid is the first one that is actually helpful. My print head's values match the good ones in the vid. So I assume it is more likely that the problem is the printer itself and buying a new head would be a total waste of money.

[@iamchefmikeowens26]

I got a paper towel put warm water on it I took out the printer head and wiped Inside of the printer and it started working again

[@steve8454]

Where did you clean?

[@babagandu]

@@steve8454 kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4WzcoaBgbqthsU

[@ckwckw02]

Hi thanks, how can i get you document?🙏🏻

[@PaoloMarcelli]

You can send me an email, but you can literally read the whole page from the video :)

To day I put new set, printhead by HP with starter kit cartriges and works... ~150$

[@xTheDoctah]

Hi, after this video I will be able to Cook a pizza margherita?

[@PaoloMarcelli]

😂😂♥

[@bimmer6067]

For whatever it is worth, I get 0.960v from Pin 4 in J10 and still my printhead is not recognized by the printer (not a printer issue, it IS the printhead). Any other ideas to diagnose it?

[@bimmer6067]

Biggest difference I find is that I get 1.8v in all the J6 and J9 pins and J5-P1 is 1v and J10-P1 is 0.950v. Anyone gets this values?

[@Shmbler]

@@bimmer6067 Yep me too. Maybe there is a subtle difference in the head models. I now have a feeling that the head isn't my problem. Could as well be something in the printer, like the long flat flex cables. From my experience, these things are not built to be opened and I'm not sure if I'm going to invest any more hours in this piece of junk.

[@cytherians]

Thank you for going to all of the trouble to see what's wrong. I have to wonder if this is evidence of a planned obsolescence. Apparently the fault seems to be happening with the same pin. And there's no real feasible way of obtaining this one sub component. The whole print head needs to be purchased, which is absurdly expensive. 10 years old printer... I guess it's time for a new one.

[@joshm4max]

What tool do I ned to remove and swap the boards?

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Do you mean the pcb on the printhead itself?

[@coryd2993]

Great video! Thank you sir! ✌❤🙏

[@RETVRNAVGVSTVS]

So do I have to remove the resin?

[@PaoloMarcelli]

You need a new printhead

[@CG-du4ez]

Informative but music is very distracting

[@RebeccaCobble]

What's with the awful background music? Couldn't make it through the video due to the distraction

[@ecanet]

Please, leave out the music, we dont need to be entertained or distracted while youre trying to explain

[@cherylrobinson3872]

I cleaned the printhead with warm water and made sure contacts are clean. I do not get the printhead error or the printer error any longer but when I put the paper in and try to print, it says alignment is not successful and don't get any print on paper. Paper come out with nothing on it.

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Hi! How did you clean the printhead?

[@cherylrobinson3872]

@@PaoloMarcelli with a syringe and tube and warm water. Kept flushing until I was getting nice clean water.

[@cherylrobinson3872]

I was thinking about using the water pic next...

[@laurentiucarlea4774]

The printer measures the resistance of the ink. If the ink is not proprietary it will not work. Even with new head!

[@PaoloMarcelli]

That's only for the ink system failure error, not the print head missing or damaged error, different issue.

[@ddpp3492]

Usually printhead failures are because of stupi simple rrasons like the air tape seal being broken

[@andrewskater8813]

mine was unglued but intact. maybe because my ink was not right for hp.

[@hyperportal8899]

Seems very common.

[@tomatexelon]

‘Apple’ company does this all the time.

[@gegervary]

Garbage I cleaned mine, it doesn’t work. Strangely though, if I unplug the printer for a while and back on, I can print the test page without any issues until it throws that dreadful message. I think the software is also garbage, HP loves to restrict your freedom, wether with printers, laptops, never again I will buy an HP. For instance why couldn’t I print in black only with a missing color cartridge? HP!

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Agree with everything you said but not with the last thing, and I'll tell you why :) To perform a print head initialization or prepare it for printing, the purge unit has to create suction under the print head on the nozzle plate, and suck a little bit of ink, as the pad is only one for each of the four colours, it's not possible to do that if one colour is missing or empty. This is the case also with Canon and Epson, but Epson printers are great! Brother printers are great too.

[@gegervary]

​@@PaoloMarcelli I guess that makes sense for the cartridges, but still, this printhead business is fishy. I still can't explain why I'm able to print and then suddenly not. Maybe a hard reset?

[@santocanone7320]

the music is a bit annoying (too loud for background music over headphones... mainly because of the music style chosen ;)) and a bit much of 'preambel' anywho, thanks for the video apart from that it really helped understanding the issue although it was a bit hard to follow because of the music being too loud over my headphones

[@jackgrabowski5908]

thanks

[@monershokry8406]

wher decument pleas?

[@user-ly1xp8jr5h]

i had same conclude lol buy the new printhead

[@jeremyblanchard3345]

Why the music though ....

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Why not!

[@jeremyblanchard3345]

@@PaoloMarcelli Umu Umu, I guess that makes sense.

[@linabtr7759]

toooop

[@dangram7741]

Explained good, music not

[@williamhogue7722]

Great video and very informative. Please lose the crap "music" in the background. Very distracting.

[@rahulminhas7882]

This is such a bullshit printer

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Made to last... yeah... last until warranty ends XD

[@RedFlyer350]

not trying to be rude but it took you 9 minutes and 23 seconds to tell us that everything you did was a waste of time and not to do it. most of us don't want to go thru this discovery with you. you coulda said not to try this in the beginning....

[@jabman549]

Or how about HP just stop making shitty products…..

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Well... For how I see it it's going to be even worse XD

[@omobanedo9602]

Why buy a new printer why not buy another printer head?

[@PaoloMarcelli]

Because a new printhead (assuming you can find one new) is too expensive and that series of printers are flawed, those printheads have many issues. HP also is one of the worst companies in right to repair, not even selling you new parts to repair your printer.

[@janbill79]

thks for the information about HP not selling new parts to repair And after I read up on the missing print head error over the last few days I relized, I wasted $50 dollars buying one of market place thinking I could just repalce a print head. ( didn't knoe they were that exspensive.) As thats what I did when I owned the 8500a plus office jet pro.

[@Zeus-vo2nq]

Dude! Get to the point!

[@PaoloMarcelli]

I got to the point, if you didn't get the point it's a different story :)

[@TayMoneeCSU]

Good lord get to the point

[@PaoloMarcelli]

It's a 10 minutes video, what's wrong with you? XD Literally you can't stay concentrated for 10 minutes?