Keto vs Animal-Based, a friendly debate with Ken Berry, MD

[@KenDBerryMD]

Great to catch up with you doc! Gonna have to give surfing another try soon...

[@Lamz..]

Surfing requires 200-300 grams of carbs, just so you know that. :) Nice discussion, gentlemen.

[@gertch100]

Surfing requires zero grams of carbs. Same as wild land firefighting, which is my profession.

[@Lamz..]

@@gertch100 You've got the fires to keep you warm, surfing on cold water is a whole other story. 😉

[@cryptostormer2512]

@@Lamz.. gluconeogenesis

[@thakraken6995]

@@cryptostormer2512 shh, you're not supposed to bring that up with the fruit eaters.

[@Paulsaladinomd]

Great to discuss these topics with you, Ken! I hope the conversation helps a lot of people and I look forward to a part 2 soon! Lots more to dive into.

[@amishadowbanned6264]

Thanks bro!

[@sunshinesilverarrow5292]

Thank you both, great discussion! Hugs & Sunshine 🌻N

[@TheTexasBoys]

@paulsaladinomd Dr Berry didn’t know what to call your diet. I call it The Bear diet- honey, berries and meat - just credit me for your next book title 😉

[@lennygriffin4464]

Could you imagine if all doctors were trying to help people like these two great doctors are!!!!! It's really unbelievable how the medical cartel is really not helping most people!!!!

[@dean7673]

It’s pretty sad, but truth will prevail

[@spoton5981]

It’s revealing how little the machine cares about genuine health, and instead orients their entire business on medicating/ extracting wealth from the masses. Now look where we are. Broke, sick, and helpless. Thank God for these two and the others like them.

[@chrismoore1372]

Its a legal racquet

[@chadzilla45]

Trying to increase profit margins corrupts all institutions

[@stephens9462]

Like everything it’s all about money and the fact is most people aren’t willing to make real lifestyle changes anyways. So they prescribe pills. Plus a lot of knowledge has changed over the years or wasn’t taught to them in med school. Nor is there really any consensus opinion when it comes to what a optimal diet for humans is. Even these two doctors don’t agree completely.

[@mariebarker1797]

It's refreshing to watch two leaders in the community collaborate like the educated gentlemen they are. Thank you.

[@donewittit6607]

Leaders😂😂😂

[@shellydickinson8598]

Agree, Marie 😊

[@JanoyCresva66]

@@donewittit6607 who is then?

[@donewittit6607]

@@JanoyCresva66 well we know it damn sure ain't these two we can excluded, check out nutrivore also nutrivore versus carnivore camaraderie classic fam😂😂😂

[@themaybetheory]

definitely nice to see two doctors that disagree have a conversation

[@ienjoyapples]

Ken Berry's advice helped me lose 75 lbs and reverse diabetes in 5 months. Keto is insanely effective for people with metabolic dysfunction. After getting healthy, carbs help me build muscle and give me energy for workouts.

[@juliebutler8241]

Protein builds muscle tissue, not carbs. It just stores as fat if taken in excess.

[@ienjoyapples]

@@juliebutler8241 Insulin signalling from carbs increases testosterone and generally puts you in a more anabolic state. They also increase performance during workouts. You will have a hard time building muscle on a keto diet without steroids.

[@weich1q2w]

@@ienjoyapples Building muscle when you are grown is about activating mTOR more so, and not so much hormone/insulin based. When you are a kid it’s hormone/insulin based. Carbs simply are an energy source that you can use while protein (more specifically it’s the full spectrum of amino acids + leucine (key point) which run the show). You need at least 30g of protein which results in 2.5-3g of leucine, which is enough to trigger mTOR and therefor build muscle. Your default insulin level (whether derived from fat or carbs or protein) is enough. (According to Dr Don Layman)

[@weich1q2w]

@@ienjoyapples This is also why eating plant based is so hard because the amino acid profiles in them individually are shit

[@ienjoyapples]

@@weich1q2w If hormones don't affect muscle growth in adults, then why do adult bodybuilders grow bigger muscles when they inject hormones? Testosterone and insulin are critical for muscle growth at any age. There are many factors which affect muscle growth. Hormones are among them. Keto tanks your anabolic hormones and makes muscle growth more difficult.

[@ChristianHiroseRomeoGraham]

BERRY doesn't eat berries and SALADino doesn't eat salads. lol

[@bryanc.5463]

面白いね。

[@aquie4d999]

Quite ironic

[@lf7065]

Dr. Berry does eat berries. Just a few, while in season. With his little son. Very cute. 🙂

[@mjordan5382]

How would you know unless you where there

[@billyl5709]

🤣

[@JeremyPringsheim]

I really like Saladino's logic around fruit, and I tried it after a year of strict carnivore - pros were that fruits are delicious, digesting a lot of fat was easier with a bit of fibre, I did feel a bit more hydrated / electrolyte-balanced, and I slept more soundly... but the reverse of that was that was that I felt like I needed a lot more sleep, my energy / mental clarity was definitely less consistent than with no carbs and the feeling of sugar 'addiction' / cravings definitely is an aspect of it that I'm happy doing without, so back to ruminants / organs / eggs for the time being.

[@Supsup7777]

I cannot do any fruit... makes me stiff within hours.

[@jakecarroll5]

Fruit and meat is great to transition with high fats of course and then after a month drop the fruit.

[@counterstrike89]

I'm half Italian, I can't handle all meat, I need fruit and other stuff, but its weird, because my mother is not Italian, and she's English British and some nordic, she doesn't do that well with all the fiber in fruit.

[@cant_Comment]

for me i got electrolyte issues after eating fruit. the thing is, meat is actually superior for your electrolytes. meat has sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium and taurine. if you have a history of having been on a meat deficient diet. in that case, meat on its own might not be enough. i suggest taking taurine supplements for a few weeks/months. also, i disagree with pauls idea that somehow fish, chicken or pork is kiIIing peopIe. i come from a south east asian background, and my ancestors where hypercarnivores who ate those animals. its actually the high sugar intake that make modern south east asians unhealthy. also, in the tropics we dont have fruits available all year round. i can go to the forest and find zero edible plants. even if i find some, they are still seasonal and are nutrient deficient

[@cant_Comment]

@@counterstrike89 im south east asian and sweet fruit is bad for me. coconuts are fine though. i used to think i needed fruit, but i really didnt. my ancestors never had access to alot of sweet fruits. the most common fruit they actually ate were coconuts. also, coconuts are seasonal. compared to south east asians, i think italians would have genes that are less adapted to fruits

[@StaticPanda]

Biggest collab since Batman vs Superman

[@philapaul2389]

Lol

[@jennig8824]

😂

[@ninawildr4207]

Lmao

[@ninawildr4207]

Which is which?

[@mjordan5382]

Paul ran away from Bart Kay please encourage him to stop running and talk to him

[@ChadCOMO]

Love the conversation between you guys. I would like to say I tried fruit and raw honey for 3 weeks. Then started carving foods I was eating in the past like soda and desert and snacks.

[@PieInTheSky9]

Interesting. On fruit and raw honey my sweet tooth completely went away compared to when I was eating processed sweets .

[@ElPapacitoGrande]

@@PieInTheSky9 agreed!

[@idlechat2622]

@@PieInTheSky9 Nonsense. Bull S. U having fruit and raw honey daily. U are satisfying yr sweet tooth daily. Why would u crave them. Stop for a few days then we talk.

[@systemtrend3194]

I semi agree with this, but I think the solution is to eat more fruit and/or honey and don't eat that other garbage.

[@HappilyCarnivore]

I'm the same. Just a small bit of fruit will kick in my sugar addiction and I'll be off track for weeks if I'm not careful. I do much better, and feel much better, saying strictly carnivore, no carbs but what's in eggs.

[@jennig8824]

Pretty obvious to me. If you are fit and physically active, having fruit n honey is not a problem, but for the most of us who have health issues and are over weight need to avoid them 🤷‍♀️

[@user-pr5tx9ep4m]

So true and easy, isn't it? Yet this isn't emphasized enough. Even Paul and Ken don't. That's why I laugh when someone who's been lean their whole life says they can eat fruit. Obviously. Similarly, it's why I can pound salt all day and my bp is rock bottom. While my coworker, who is thin, needs to avoid salt like the plague.

[@KT-qx1tk]

Not true

[@jacobmoorman2720]

Yep anecdotally (for me as well) carnivore for elimination to overcome autoimmune issues which is pretty much everything that a person can’t overcome with nondiet intervention. Saladinos animal based will work for the average individual and they will thrive, and the carb intake will be influenced by their level of activity.

[@JasonN858]

Just a teaspoon of honey fixed our electrolyte issues, still drink coffee.

[@matiasacosta175]

I dont do any physical activity. I drink fruit juice for hydration and honey when i crave it. 0 Problems with them.

[@loriandersonbennett]

I ate a very strict carnivore diet. I still had issues with IBS. Adding frozen fruits and bee pollen have settled my issue. Both docs are amazing.

[@thestuff4321]

Bee pollen is amazing

[@Rosielu-c5g]

Agree you can take a lot of great info from both docs. I have added fruit back to my diet and feel better. Not a ton of fruit but some. I think that if we weren't supposed to eat fruit it'd be bitter. So today I ate pasture raised eggs in butter a strip steak and strawberries and an orange. Feel great.

[@amandaburleson2035]

its takes a couple weeks of having diarreah but it will go away after carninvor diet

[@YouTuber-ep5xx]

Paul, thanks for sharing your thoughts about nutrition. I've learned so much from you over the past several years. You are a remarkably bright guy. So good of you to share. Hope that you enjoy your journey always.

[@Rich_G22]

My 2 biggest influencers when it comes to healthy eating and lifestyle. This is the moment I have waited for. Well done gentlemen.

[@teaheichler9735]

I’m half way through, and I just want to comment on how respectful, thoughtful and kind this conversation is… I love it. Thank you for being a great example ❤

[@tattootiger57]

at least the majority are

[@niceblkbro82]

Both of these doctors are so amazing. Their body of knowledge are captivating. I feel in my heart that both of these doctors have our best interests at heart and the way they think is beyond outstanding. I agree with both of them about eating mostly Meats but there's nothing wrong with adding a little fruit depending on your physiology and your tolerance of it. I'm currently on the meat and fruit diet and I am thriving well. My energy levels have been going through the roof and I've been going very hard at the gym and at aquatic therapy. My physical therapist and my primary care says that I am doing and looking amazing more and more each day they see me. Thanks Ken and paul. If there were more medical professionals like the both of you in the world, this world would be a much better and healthier place to live in overall.

[@Troy-Moses]

Dr. Paul, I've gained a lot of respect for you after this discussion; particularly, your humility in listening to opinions you clearly disagree with. Respec'!

[@BlueBackflip]

I agree with Paul on fruit. I went carni and did everything right and gave it time and still struggled with electrolyte issues, severe dizziness, and sleep and energy problems. I was nearly blacking out. I added in fruit and came back to life. Fruit is not a gateway drug to junk food for me either. I can eat a little and stop and be fine. There's so many technical reasons why I think fruit is beneficial but for me I just felt like I was going to gag after a few months if I all I could eat again was meat. I needed that freshness and hydration and not the kind you get from a glass of salt water. I also believe while vegetable fibre (not to mention oxalates et al) can be problematic, fruit fibre in concert with its higher water content tends to move things along quite nicely and does not cause me to bloat like veggies and legumes would. Hydration from fruit is far superior to nearly all other water sources. Everyone's different!

[@krpcannon123]

well said and totally agree, definitely not just in your head

[@colinthomson5358]

Just curious but how much fat were you eating? I started feeling cold and was shaking in the morning so I made a point of eating 100 grams of fat extra and I no longer have those issues.

[@BlueBackflip]

@@colinthomson5358 I don’t remember exactly, but I wasn’t shy with fatty cuts butter and eggs. I still eat high carnivore but I do eat fruit and a very small amount of “safe” foods like romaine and potatoes, olives and a few other things here and there. But I very often have meals where I just eat ghee and beef.

[@dukington101]

@@BlueBackflip It's the vitamin a bro, I lowered mine and all those problems went away, do you check your minerals as well? Copper being too high causes all those things too.

[@aono335]

@@dukington101 I had pretty much everything in control and honestly with my work taking me different places I cannot sit down and calculate how many specific minerals im taking in. Carnivore is neat on paper but it is a big headache to actually fully implement. I take about 80 to 100g of fruits and it fixed all the downsides of carnivore diet. No insulin levels change no problems with my LDL and HDL levels and I have become stronger due to being able to workout Harder. It's a great addition!

[@KentWeare]

Thank you both for a constructive, respectful conversation. I look up to both of you and my health has never been better because of the two of you 🙏

[@FreeUrMindz]

I've been on a ketogenic diet for 5 years. Recently i tried adding more fruit, kefir, and honey along with adding as much organ meat as i can find which is usually about 4 days a week with tendon, liver, heart, tripe, bone marrow. One thing i will say is that fruit and honey is like an energy drink to me before heavy lift days. Also my cramping and other electrolyte issues have pretty much dissapeared even though i added quality salt and trace minerals daily to my water. Going "meat based" and swapping veggies for fruit has definitley helped my digestion and energy levels. I still need to play around with my carb count but it feels good at my one month new diet timeframe. Time will tell if any other benefits or negatives emerge swapping basically fiber for fructose and less plant toxins. I've been following both of these great minds for years now along with Dr.Fung, berg, and Delauer. Invaluable resources!!! Thanks guys!

[@modelsupplies]

One drop of honey really spikes my blood sugar, even manuka, just fyi

[@agrikantus9422]

@@modelsupplies it might be for a little while till your body gets used again to more glucose.

[@roberttucay9950]

@@modelsupplies me too and sorethroat.

[@robbiehummingbird]

Delauer has said some problematic and not so borderline dangerous things, e.g break a prolonged fast with rice cakes to stimulate a large insulin Spike!!( refeeding syndrome > hypokalemia>heart stopping >see refeeding syndrome in holocaust survivors WW2). He took that video down and never owned up to it. Anyone who watched that and never anything else may kill themselves and others. Berg likes to make sweeping proclamations that are not backed by any research, but does say a lot of reaso able stuff backed by good research. I've called him out in the comments many times with zero response each time. Fung is like a God to me. He is totally legit and on the cutting edge of fasting research. Check out Dr. Thomas Seifreid. He does clinical research and lectures on Prolonged water fasting and cancer as a metabolic disease and the Warburg effect. He is a true genius that got me into all of this.

[@sherlyr.]

Concerning fruit on animal-based diet and how it applies to others... very well said by dr. Berry. And I think that MOST other people, especially those who are older, cannot eat so much fruit and be metabolically oday.

[@prandy9747]

Yep yep it alll depends on how slow or fast your metabolic rate is, if you have trained your brain to preserve more energy with less food specially since you were kid, u will most likely develop a slow metabolism and in that case you might not need fruits in a carnivore diet for electrolytes because your brain has been highly trained to not run out electrolytes and preserve fuel with easy on a slow metabolism, specially as u get older it gets even slower,. But if you have a fast metabolism and your body get rids of electrolytes fast, specially if your young , active and insulin sensitive, than definitely some organic seasonal fruits will work on your favor to replenish those electrolytes easily lost on the diet., Again it alll depends on your metabolism and how insulin sensitive a person is. It's also found in a study that diabetics on carnivore diet don't really use electrolytes because they have more than enough sugar storage in the blood that will replenish their potassium, and magnesium automatically as they keep running out of it. Pretty mind-blowing stuff.

[@sherlyr.]

@J Cal tight. Even though it took me a long time, I finally figured that I just need to add more salt in my water to help with electrolyte and energy issues. Basically salt instead of sugar.

[@Aaron-hx6vi]

I recently started Saladino's diet and am feeling worlds better than I was. I was previously doing keto, but something was giving me chronic inflammation. I cut out the veggies save for the fruits and that worked for me. I reckon there is a lot of variation in our individual phisiologies that comes into play here that we will never fully understand in the aggregate. And for that reson, it will always be up to the individual to take responsibility for their own health. Everyone's meat puppet is different.

[@manuelamosneanu7147]

Love watching this kind of debates. You're both awesome! Carnivore is the way! ( Dr Kiltz)

[@prem_pandya]

It’s the very best way 😂

[@petsnaturetv1690]

Good luck with hemorrhoids lol

[@manuelamosneanu7147]

@@petsnaturetv1690 Have you heard of any constipated lions? 😉

[@BiblicalChristianSteve]

Nice, thank you Dr. Saladino! I didn't even start the video yet but I know already this will be a great way to end a long day. God bless you brother

[@Janeoffools]

@@GabrielWJensen two things, he’s not allowed to say thanks for uploading? Secondly, the video is 2 hours long and he uploaded it 30 mins ago. Don’t be a hypocrite now dear.

[@vj21oq27]

Tell me, why did Jesus, Muhammad and Moses (assuming they were real) ate grains? Why did they ate gluten, a super lectin which is proven to cause leaky gut? Why didn't God advised in religious books to avoid toxic foods like grains?

[@vj21oq27]

Why did Jesus, Muhammad and Moses, assuming they were real, ate grains? Why did they ate gluten, a superlectin which is proven to cause leaky gut? Why didn't god or gods suggested people to avoid toxic foods like grains in religious books?

[@1Mannco]

@@GabrielWJensen You are stupid, it's not a comment first of all, on this 2 hr video so he doesn't need to open it. To say "you can't"- anything..make a post or reply [not a comment on the debate] that he wants to enjoy watching these 2 men he enjoys debate "later to end his long day" and again already knows he will enjoy it.

[@Fishthe406]

Both Docs are amazing. Glad animal base diet works for Saladino, I know if I eat some fruit I just get bloated and gassy. I ate a small piece of watermelon few months ago and couldn’t stop belching. Just trying to figure out what the body can and cannot tolerate is a great step foreword.

[@promenadeable]

I think the key is to test different fruits - particular the lower sugar content ones to see which is more compatible - for me it's pears - anything higher in sugar is a tough one for me - absolutely can't do grapes which are almost pure sugar to me as well as pineapple which I love but can't do - berries are good

[@jordanrogan2534]

You need to be taking a good probiotic e.g kefir sauerkraut and kimchi you don't have the sugar consuming microbiota if you have been zero carb for some time. The human body digests meat no problem but when it comes to plants or fruit it's fermented in the stomach by the microbacteria

[@promenadeable]

@@jordanrogan2534 Thankyou

[@promenadeable]

The real pandemic is the fact millions of peoples have got problems with foods creating illnesses

[@stephaniesmith1095]

Thank you both! This definitely helps me to understand my individual approach to carbs mainly from fruits! I’ve diagnosed myself as a carb-oholic! I love honey, fruits and refined carbs and it’s easily accessible to me all the time! I don’t have to hunt or climb trees for honey & fruits, so I just need to stick with a Keto-vorish to the best of my ability without compromising other health issues. Thank you both! Love your products Paul and Ken, you’ve always been my go to since my 5 year journey in this keto/low carb space!! 💪🏾💪🏾

[@rodsantos9325]

So glad this friendly discussion happened. We need to keep evolving our knowledge.

[@ijustwantrealnews5319]

Could Dr. Saladino’s ability to handle massive amounts of carbs also be related to the high amount of sunshine each day? I’m curious how sunlight exposure, with or without hours of exercise, affects carb metabolism. Maybe if he moved to Minnesota, wasn’t able to surf or have hours in the sun, if he’d still be able to maintain his metabolic health. Seriously curious.

[@pookiecatblue]

I think you may be onto something there.

[@indigo7387]

It's all about glycogen. The more exercise the higher carbohydrate need.

[@dr_drungus3167]

Yes, look up dr. Jack kruse, he touches on that in a few interviews.

[@sneslzorus9978]

Perhaps and also activity level, he lives in costa rica and is the same in my country Nicaragua we have sun 6 months and 6 months of winter. I eat animal diet just like him but i sin with a dish with grains gallopinto is rice and beans. My A1C was 5.3, triglycerides 90. HDL 67, LDL 160

[@Lsirianni]

Great to see two intelligent and open minded individuals have an educated debate that is more of a conversation and not an argument.

[@cathy3701]

I think the carb/no carb conversation is also relevant to those of us who know that carbs in any form are triggers to binge and return to old habits. I have to abstain from carbs of any kind; I cannot moderate.

[@modelsupplies]

Oh boy, i'm having some berries delivered today and hoping I can handle them.

[@lynzannabel6990]

@@modelsupplies Hope you can handle them, and enjoy!👍🏾😊

[@jhenddan]

Loved this one. Been wanting ro hear this for awhile! You both have helped me improve my health so much these past few years. Thanks gents!

[@illpj]

Brilliant show boys ... I have been following you two since I became unwell and I am getting better and better ... thanks for all the work you put in.

[@reedfrost6971]

Mental health is what brought me to carnivore and now animal based. I’ve had one cheat meal over the course of the year and over the next 3-4 days my depressive/anxious thoughts returned/faded. My meal was roughly 2lbs of brisket and a couple bites of cole slaw, potato salad and pinto beans.

[@dajosee]

For me it's the opposite. Grass Fed Beef causes depression and anxiety. Vegetables and Fruit have me feeling fantastic and my mind clear and happy. I guess diets work differently for everyone

[@elven6920]

@@dajosee 🤣

[@cantstopthefunk22]

@@dajosee could this be psychological? I.e. eating meat brings feelings of guilt?

[@dajosee]

@@cantstopthefunk22 Guilt?

[@TheFlintStryker]

Guilt is probably the wrong word. We have spent decades hearing that Sat fat is bad for us, hence the sub-conscious brings to question the health outcomes and we definitely see the mental war manifest negative outcomes. Beef causing depression and anxiety is absolutely an outlier situation because far more often it is the opposite. Reducing or replacing meat intake with vegetables and fruit and reduction in these symptoms is not founded in the majority but to each their own.

[@robyn3349]

Thank you, both, for increasing our knowledge and our health!

[@valarizimmerman]

Thanks to both of you for having this conversation. Others are so busy calling names and shooting things down without taking the time to address what is actually being proposed.

[@mikeluhrs4578]

That comment Ken made about things get emotional when you start eating different. I came home for a few months and was eating carnivore. I was getting constant shit (was eating Salidino’s version being it was summer and I was always moving and working out). My family was so confused why I was only eating ground beef, a banana here and there, berries, and some honey here and there. I did get credit how good I looked. It comes down to action.. does a person want to personally want to improve or just stay in they root. Cheers!

[@CaptnJack]

unfortunately too many people would rather just be where they are rather than eat better and be healthier. Even if they KNOW that eating better will help them feel better, etc. THAT is how deep the sociological conditioning our medical system and society has manipulated us into following...

[@thestuff4321]

I got the same reaction from people. It's ridiculous, if I was stuffing my face with chicken fried in seed oils and drinking coke they wouldn't say a word

[@Mrowlshoes]

Same here. Eating only beef, bananas and honey has my family saying I look great but they’re concerned about all the meat I eat. 🤔

[@mikeluhrs4578]

@@Mrowlshoes I would just give them the resources they need or to the best of your ability to convey the message it is okay. I am still carnivore (low carb now since fruit out of season) and still am seeing amazing results!

[@10use]

Amazing Talk..Amazing Guest. Please bring Dr Berry back on again.

[@gstlynx]

At this point in my 5 year low/zero carb journey I am more interested in Paul's performance oriented perspective. I've already lost the weight. Both are great communicators. Activity Level changes everything. Even fidgeting.

[@prandy9747]

Yep yep it alll depends on how slow or fast your metabolic rate is, if you have trained your brain to preserve more energy with less food specially since you were kid, u will most likely develop a slow metabolism and in that case you might not need fruits in a carnivore diet for electrolytes because your brain has been highly trained to not run out electrolytes and preserve fuel with easy on a slow metabolism, specially as u get older it gets even slower,. But if you have a fast metabolism and your body get rids of electrolytes fast, specially if your young , active and insulin sensitive, than definitely some organic seasonal fruits will work on your favor to replenish those electrolytes easily lost on the diet., Again it alll depends on your metabolism and how insulin sensitive a person is. It's also found in a study that diabetics on carnivore diet don't really use electrolytes because they have more than enough sugar storage in the blood that will replenish their potassium, and magnesium automatically as they keep running out of it. Pretty mind-blowing stuff.

[@Consistent30]

@@prandy9747 where did you get this information from? I’d love to know as it makes a lot of sense.

[@kaitlananderson4302]

@@prandy9747 I'd also love to know if you have any resources (videos, channels,etc) about this. Very interesting to me as a person who is chronically ill but also has a high metabolism and has always been underweight. Ive been trying to figure out how i should be eating for my specific situation. Thanks.

[@doherpa]

Amazing conversation between two of “the greats” in this space! Thank you! The one thing I’d add about trying fruit and honey is that it’s not only about how you feel and how your labs look. If your priority is maintaining ketosis, than honey and most fruit is simply not an option.

[@Primal-Dude]

Been waiting for this one for a long time! Love both of you guys and your opinions

[@reggieaustin1639]

I think Dr Berry is so correct, I’m 59 years old and discovered keto and carnivore from Dr berry he changed my life , high blood pressure and diabetes for several decades and I’m alive today because of what I learned from him . If you’re in my state I cannot eat honey and fruits. Paul you’re a high energy guy that do a lot of surfing so everyone can’t be like you . Berry is the man . 🙏🏽

[@seanveach950]

This is a fascinating experiment. Cannot stand fruit or honey though here, so not likely to take that path, though I would if there seemed to be a need to. Look forward to seeing what happens over the years and hopefully we get to follow this for a very long time..... Thanks Paul for introducing me to carnivore, and thanks Ken for helping me along with sound advice. I will forever be grateful to you to and the many others that help and support all of us reaching for better health.

[@bonnieschmidt5882]

Wow! I can’t believe anybody would not absolutely love fruit, but I also think you’re probably healthier for it.

[@specialk2995]

I’m a little late to listen and comment but I’m glad this debate took place with two of my favorite docs. I knew there would be some disagreement but it was civil and I respect that. I’m still trying to figure out what works best for me. Thank you for your time and wisdom gentlemen, it was a lot of food for thought!

[@deniseragona2383]

Dr. Ken Berry is the Freakin BEST. ❤

[@nocarbsnation]

Coming up on 5 years of living the low carb lifestyle. Started Keto (due to a laundry list of health issues) and quickly migrated to a carnivore/animal based lifestyle. This way of eating has changed (dare I say saved) my life! Reversed T2D, sleep apnea, GERD, peripheral neuropathy, brain fog, and more. Like Dr. Berry, my doctor is concerned with my total HDL and LDL levels, even though I have dropped my Triglycerides from the 260's to the low 80's.

[@urielwong]

That was really good. I'm in the middle, lol. I feel the benefits of fruit, but I can't eat too much. Great discussion!

[@AyeJello]

Love when the 2 best Dr.’s on human nutrition come together.

[@AyeJello]

I do wish Paul pushed back a little more aggressively tho. Would made for some great debate. I do understand they are friends tho and agree on like 95% of things lol

[@TheMilford]

Would love to see Shawn Baker or Robert Cywes have this open and free discussion…

[@elven6920]

Robert cywes lol, he changes his opinion more than i can count

[@elven6920]

@J Cal Ye dude, first he claims that we should moderate protein and prioritize fat, then oh wow we actually need carbs after all because ketosis isnt safe long term and now hes pushing keto/carnivore again, hes all over the place its such a joke lol

[@matiasacosta175]

@@elven6920 We dont actually need those carbs as like fruits or honey. But its a fact that fruit is better for hydration than water and honey really good for digestion. Best choice is blood tho. But nowdays is super hard to get fresh blood from healthy animals.

[@tattootiger57]

I really like both of you having discourse on philosphy. its great

[@beatciunia]

Meeting of Giants in food and nutrition. Love your stuff even if you don't always agree👍I'm due my cholesterol test next week and look forward to discussing it with my health provider if my LDL level is high

[@Janeoffools]

Thanks for uploading the full unedited version.

[@JLA1911A1]

Dr. Saladino, Dr. Berry, I absolutely love this! I have been a follower of you both for almost 5 years now. I started in October of 2017 at nearly 372 lbs. I have been ~220 lbs for more than 3 years. I too feel best on ruminant meats. I get my organ meats as often as I can and I do use desiccated organ supplements daily. I also will eat certain whole fruits and some local honey on days that I work out. But other than that its meat and eggs for me. I am the Tomahawk King around here. Ha! Y’all keep spreading the word!

[@JLA1911A1]

@Ali Mostly work out fasted. If I am lifting heavy on a particular day I will have some whole fruit. Usually a banana and maybe an apple. Granny smith green one because I like them. And a little raw TX honey with them about an hour before I lift. Most of the rest of my work out routines are completely fasted workouts tho.

[@davidgrimes4726]

Absolutely fantastic discussion about a framework to safely explore bio-individuality around carbs! As someone who is lean but trying to recover from a number of autoimmune conditions and trying to support higher levels of activities this is exactly the kind of thing I've been thinking about. Thanks Paul and Ken!

[@ogeoge6000]

Wow, fantastic discussion, thank you both : )

[@timgutierrez2211]

New subscriber as of today here. Excellent interview. I loved th content of the questions. Dr. Berry has turned my life around the last 14 weeks and it is great to see him on the responding end. I am off of 4 medications and have 3 left and I expect them to be gone too in the coming year. I feel better today and am heralthier at 69 yo than I did 25 years ago.

[@kr5153]

Great to see some of my heroes getting along well and pursuing the truth.

[@ptaylor3352]

I think it's great that you can both have a debate and express your opinions and why you believe what you do, even though you have different views on fruit, etc - absolutely brilliant and interesting.

[@blaineunderwood4390]

I started doing carnivore for a couple months after watching Dr. Berry, and I got very lean and felt good, but I could tell I had less energy. I added fruit and honey to my diet and I still stayed lean, but I felt like I had much more energy and I could do more farm work and lift more in the gym.

[@blaineunderwood4390]

But I'm very Physically Active and have a high muscle percentage

[@sportysbusiness]

That sounds more like you weren't fully fat adapted so your body still needed carbs for energy. It took me 6 months before fat worked better than carbs.

[@blaineunderwood4390]

That's true, I should have been strict carnivore longer to see the full benefits.

[@indigo7387]

@@sportysbusiness Thats too long. I bet you are just saying that. Fat adaptation doesn't take 6 months.

[@AlbeeSoaring]

Professional Disagreements bring about new discoveries and bring about new research to prove or disprove either way. So glad to see this. I am now 5 days in doing carnivore. My first 2 days I ate roughly 1/4 cup of fruit to help ween me off my extreme sugar addiction. That seemed to help me greatly. I have been watching videos from both of you and have found myself agreeing with both sides. Glad to hear you speak on some things Ive been curios about. So far I have decided to stay eating carnivore until I hit my goal weight and body fat %. Then once I do that then Ive decided to start looking at adding somethings like you (Paul) have mentioned. Thank you for this and I look forward to future podcasts like this.

[@mykljamz]

These are my 2 favorite docs

[@Barsimea]

Nice one! Thanks for the great conversation! Best wishes! 🌞♥️

[@mathewiacobbe6106]

Great on track discussion and very good clear points made. Thanks!

[@47CarolAnne]

I love both these doctors and how respectful they are! I tried carnivore for a year-and-a-half and like Paul, had sleep issues and hormone issues, primarily cortisol levels which were off the chart too high at night and in the morning. Added in some fruit and raw milk and my sleep habits and hormones returned to normal. Chronically High cortisol levels are not at all optimal. I don't go anywhere near 200 g like Paul does but he's extremely active with surfing and working out. I have an orange with my breakfast, watermelon with lunch and raw milk with my dinner.

[@NaturesAnomalies]

Ken you have to let Paul talk uninterrupted like he lets you talk

[@elizabethfindlay5752]

As emotional beings in a society that ignores emotion for the most part you hit the nail right on the head- much of our problem with food is emotional attachments which makes it extremely hard because a lot of it is subconscious and what was programmed into us as children

[@WeaponXwastaken]

Why do I get the sense that Paul is very measured and logical, and Ken is ideologically driven and makes things up just to back track later if he is called out on it.

[@thenecrons100]

What an amazing exchange. Thank you for both guys!

[@ellyses359]

This was really informative. I went from keto vegan to Paul’s carnivore and fruit diet mainly because I had a fruit addiction and it was too hard for me to cut it out cold turkey. Now I’m strict carnivore and my acne on my face, chest, and back is now cleared. I would love to eat meat and fruit, but clearly it’s been doing something to my hormones. Maybe I’ll try it again three months from now just to verify that it was the fruit. I’m sure I was also detoxing years of oxalates too.

[@Karll541]

Do you do any supplements? Keto doesn’t work for me but got slightly drowsy with carnivore and ended up adding salt, some electrolytes magnesium and vitamin c

[@ellyses359]

@@Karll541 I take Nordic Naturals cod liver oil and also fish oil plus CoQ10. I was sick recently and took 250 of magnesium, but only because I just felt like I should. I haven’t experienced muscle cramping or lack of energy. Carnivore has given me the opposite. I used to get very drowsy after eating carbs and I suffered with arthritic pain in my feet, hips, hands, shoulder, and neck. That has pretty much resolved besides when I cheat at holiday gathering. I’m very susceptible to peer pressure hah so I’m working on that.

[@blissh808]

I went on Ketogenic and OMAD intermittent fasting for four months. I have no craving for carbs or sugar or hungry. My energy levels are to the roof. I sleep 8 hours per night. I eat 1 cup of mixed berries at my meal, electrolytes and the vitamin B complex is extremely important for OMAD intermittent fasting. I make sure I have them adequately everyday. I drank one whole lemon (pulp,seeds,skin and juice) with a cup of water as soon I woke up in the morning. I drank Moringa powder, chia seeds, nutrition yeasts, milk thistle, kefir milk, vit B 12, iodine, coq10, and beet root powder during my eating window. I fixed my insulin resistance and osteoarthritis within the first 21 days. I love this new diet change. I encourage everyone to get on this. It may reverses diseases and cancers.

[@judys1340]

I've been keto/carnivore for about 3 years. I've been having issues with severe leg and toe cramps at night. I've tried everything everyone sais to do and it only helps sometimes. I recently started eating apples and fresh pineapple, a serving about every other day. Guess what? I haven't been having cramps! Tomorrow I go for blood work. I'm very interested to see what my glucose will be.

[@doriel668]

You need electrolytes. I use electrolyte. powder no leg cramps. I was getting charlie horses cramps in my legs and toes. My husband told me to buy an electrolyte drink. I drank it and felt a rush through my body. It is an electrolyte deficiency.

[@AbuMaxime]

Here's a simple question for you Paul (@CarnivoreMD). If the concern for quitting the pure Carnivore diet was electrolyte deficiency, why not simply complementing the carnivore diet with avocados, rather than fructosy fruits and honey? High in potassium and magnesium, with much less carbohydrates. Some of us (like myself) are highly sensitive to carbs and will put weight easily. Mad respect for your huge contribution to animal base diets, and for the very intelligent, knowledgeable, respectful conversations such as this one with Ken Berry.

[@jennygibbons1258]

Much respect for your collaboration here. It’s good to see Paul get a chance to rebalance the dogmatic criticism he’s experienced simply for suggesting it’s ok to experiment and see what makes you feel good. Strict carnivore worked marvellously for me at my sickest point, but I never got my energy back even after 2 plus years of meat and fat, and I’m baffled by blood results showing anaemia and extremely high ferritin. I don’t eat much red meat anymore, hate chicken, egg whites and pork now - feel nauseated. No longer have fatty liver thankfully so that’s fantastic but what’s the iron overload about?? Meat cure-all isn’t working for all of us. Still have no energy and need frequent naps despite normal blood glucose now. Metabolic dysfunction must still be a factor 🤷🏽‍♀️ I’m experimenting with a little honey, occasional sweet potato and will also try a little plantain eventually. Thanks again for sharing this with us.

[@kwajlady]

Have you ever been tested for Hereditary Hemochromatosis? Look into it and talk to your doctor about it. Regards.

[@jennygibbons1258]

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll look into it.

[@kwajlady]

@Jenny Gibbons I have HH and have been able to do carnivore for 2 years. Best wishes!

[@jennygibbons1258]

@@kwajlady Thanks for the encouragement. If it’s HH I’m unclear why it’s never shown up before. During pregnancies I’ve always had problems with anaemia and ferritin was never flagged. Anyway, will see if I can learn more from research. Best wishes to you too.

[@jennygibbons1258]

Found the answer on a channel called Strong Medicine, Anemia Lesson 2: how to interpret the iron panel. Very helpful and easy explanation.

[@goranivanovic875]

Two guys who changed my perspective on food and health. Now, I'm trying to convice my parents. They are bit hardheaded, traditional. Hard work, lol. Keep going.

[@sarah29880]

Same haha 😂

[@hueyloueidewey]

I have more than 10 years o blood work in a spreadsheet. When I was eating a garbage diet and under Lipitor 20mg, my HDL was 34 mg/dL and triglycerides 137 mg/dL (worst ratio ever - 4,03 in Dec, 1st 2020 at 38 years). With a more consistent animal based diet, my latest ratio was 0,83 with HDL 63 mg/dL and triglycerides 52 mg/dL (Oct, 29th 2022 at 40 years). Kicking ass!

[@matthewanthony8920]

Great discussion fellas. Cool to see two guys almost on the same page, with significant differences, listen, discuss, and admit they don’t have all the answers.

[@amandamays2923]

I think everyone could benefit being carnivore/keto for atleast a year or maybe a little longer to become metabolically healthy (fixing the gut) then start doing what Paul does. I don’t think anyone could just start doing what Paul does when so messed up from the SAD diet. As far as fruit being changed from the past I know the apples that grow in my yard are much smaller than the store and honestly have less flesh since the core is larger. I think farmed apples are sprayed and fertilized to produce larger fruits. So with that organic should be better in general

[@richarddaken6770]

Interesting 🤔 and a possibility for some people I think!!! As for me I've been strict carnivore for 3 years and have fixed most all of my health issues but sadly trying to introduce a modest amount of fruit has been a disaster for me ... But good luck to the rest of you all because I'm sure some of you might be able to 👍

[@amandamays2923]

@@richarddaken6770 Im hoping to get to the point I can enjoy fruit and such. There are so many things people don’t take into consideration. Like the amount of sunlight we personally take in, infections like mold, parasites, heavy metals that keep people sick. Hopefully everyone can find what works for them!

[@chrismoore1372]

@@amandamays2923 Even people that eat a single apple after abstaining they feel the immediate bad effects

[@amandamays2923]

@@chrismoore1372 I wonder if that’s because they’ve gone so long without it that the bacteria in the gut aren’t there to break it down. But if it was introduced slowly and often if that bacteria would come back and process it. Too many different perspectives and studies for me to know lol

[@treedom5094]

The benefits from lowered carbohydrate intake and exclusion of plants from the plate are worthy of many thanks on behalf of many people. And this fundamental gratitude and appreciation remains the case notwithstanding the superficial amusement from the rather funny sequence 'kale is ...' promptly followed by '... had a cup of coffee ..."

[@dossegundos7145]

I guess this video helps to learn that not all people need to be in ketosis to have a lean and healthy body, or that Keto is not a forever diet for many and good carbs can be part of a diet to feel and look healthy.

[@OptiRaz]

Beautiful podcast episode! However, Paul, please double check your audio and microphone settings before recording, it hurts to know that it could be so much better

[@lukeclaydon6670]

Need more of these great guys

[@karenmurray3785]

"The human body is not a closed system" thank you so much for those words. Nobody wants to say that the 1st law of thermo is non applicable to the human body. They dance around it and say things like "we are not breaking the law because......" I am, as of March a retired chemical engineer with loads of experience in thermodynamics and in the first sentence or second it states that it does not apply to open systems. I once asked Gary Taubes why he just didn't say that in his talks when I met him about 10 years ago when he gave a talk at Rutgers University in NJ. He explained that would be too hard for the average person and as long as he could point out that the law tells you nothing about why, that was good enough. I agree with most of Gary's ideas except that one. I think people should be told that the 1st law of thermo is non applicable to human physiology. Thank you Dr. Berry!

[@rman176]

How does a true carnivore manage magnesium. I was magnesium deficient and needlessly suffered with muscle spasm until I figured this out. I only want to get my vitamins and minerals in natural states.

[@slayerment]

Great, productive conversation. Thanks guys 👍

[@jwsjourney]

This was a good discussion, but I will stay on Beef, butter, bacon and eggs. I have been doing it for 6 months and feel great

[@smiddy1208]

Great discussion! Really wanted them to discuss dairy / lactose aswel.

[@markiangooley]

I’ve been a type 1 diabetic since 1970 and I love honey. I always regret having it. Good honey can be a remarkable experience but I generally eat enough, usually either by itself or with peanut butter, to spike my blood glucose a lot. I can’t have it in the house.

[@alphacause]

I love this amicable and mature debate between two doctors. Sometimes internecine disagreements are the best ones because, since both debaters are mostly on the same side, they can conduct the debate without egos or dogmas getting in the way. It yields a more fruitful (excuse the pun) discussion and truly works to enhance the audience's understanding. It is rare to find that sort of debate when you see an adherent of animal based nutrition vs. someone who advocates a plant based diet. Emotions tend to run high when people are diametrically opposed to each other, and the rhetoric tends to devolve. Thank you Dr. Saladino and Dr. Berry for this.

[@patty9850]

Mango was the last thing to go before lion diet for me. Only then did all the skin tags on my neck dried up and fell off. Also the mental and emotional clarity. Nope on fruit for me. Loved it though.

[@pepper419]

I've never had skin tags but this is the first time I've heard of them finally falling off. Well done. 😏👍

[@jonmagnusrestad]

Great and very useful debate. They both make good arguments, and for me Saladino’s way in the end worked better after a few years of experimentation.

[@Supsup7777]

So my question is this... I looove fruit. However, I think the sugar makes my joints stiffer. I have a few autoimmune disorders. Any thoughts about the fruit sugar causing joint stiffness? I did order some beef organs to see if that also helps. Thank you!

[@Jtsui5308]

Would love to see an answer to this question as well. I swear sugar makes my body ache too- almost like an alcohol hangover!

[@lf7065]

I understand that sugar feeds bacteria and yeast and mold in the body. Fruit is especially bad because it's high in sugar and yeast as well. These bacteria, as well as the sugar itself, causes inflammation in the body tissues. Also, the fiber in fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes causes microabrasions in our gut lining, which is only as thick as a human hair. The resulting damage cause gut disbiosys. Then the body gets flooded with damaging proteins and microbes. A solely animal foods diet heals the gut and balances the body out. Check out Dr. Anthony Chaffee here on KZbin. He is excellent! Hope this helps. 🙂

[@Supsup7777]

@@lf7065 I feel that for sure. I did not eat any fruit last night and can tell the difference in a day. I think its is no fruit for me sadly. Maybe someday I can add some stuff back in.. but for now and for healing it just isn't worth it, yah know?

[@lf7065]

@@Supsup7777 I hear you! I've made peace with it for now. Winter isn't fruit season anyway in my part of the world. Eating carnivore right now is perfect. And it gives the gut a rest so it can heal. It's all good. 🙂

[@Supsup7777]

@@lf7065 I hear that!!

[@bensherman9126]

Great discussion gentlemen. Thoroughly enjoyed!

[@alexanderohanlon8825]

I was keto for 6 Yr, lol except Xmas... Now I eat 1600-2000g fruit, 1500g beef/lamb, 4tbs of honey and I'm way leaner and stronger than when keto. Also I heal faster and my sleep is so good. P.s I do fast 16h per day, I train 3 hard days then 2 days off. The second day off I eat nothing (42h fast) then hit the gym hard to send stemcells and hormones crazy! Hard to keep weight on with the 42h fast but damn! You heal like logan.

[@dana102083]

Sounds like you've been healing over the last 6 plus years!

[@august4633]

I doubt those numbers are true. 1800g of 15% beef is 4300 kcal. 1800g of fruit is like 1000 kcal. That's significantly more than most professional athletes eat.

[@alexanderohanlon8825]

@@august4633 lol it's raw weight, but it's still about 200 cal per 100g, so yer prob about 3000 cal from meat and prob 1200 cal from fruit, then 200-300 cals from honey.

[@ChristinaMathewsonNaturopath]

Thanks for putting this debate together, it’s helped answer many of the questions that I’ve had about the thought processes behind fruit etc

[@escabrosa1]

I'm intrigued by the "Saladino" diet. After I'm done trimming down with the carnivore diet I'll give it a go.

[@Paul0628able]

Respect for both brilliant doctors.

[@RaduPN]

I tried this animal-based diet including somewhere around 150 grams of carbs every day from fruit and honey. I am quite active, but still was gaining weight. I think that only few people can eat that much carbs (150-250 grams/day) without gaining weight. Paul is one of them. For the majority will not work. It's simply too many carbs. Maybe it depends also on the muscle mass... anyway, thank you for this debate. very informative!

[@goggins6121]

carbs dont make you fat

[@goggins6121]

dont know who is lying to you, but you can lose weight eating carbs

[@RaduPN]

@@goggins6121 nobody is lying to me. it's an experiment I did on myself. I do eat some carbs on a daily basis. 20-30 or maybe even 50 grams per day. But with 150-200 grams every day it's too much for me. And I can see this for many people around me - a high carb diet it's going to be fat gaining. It is not the same for everybody. I love fruit, I love honey. I just eat them on quite small amounts.

[@cammieklund]

I gained about 20 pounds on fully carnivore and I have now lost 14 of those on animal based eating around 120-200 g of carbs a day. I'm not very active and I'm still overweight so I'm really not metabolically healthy yet. But I can sleep and I don't run on stresshormones, which I do when I'm on fully carnivore.

[@unknown-vo3di]

@@RaduPN keep doing what feels good for you. everyone is different. i would suggest tailoring carb intake to activity level. if you have an active day of lifting and going for walks up the carbs if not lower it. But you likely already know this and applied this to your experiment.

[@pepper419]

You're quite right Dr. Berry about the hybridisation of fruits all over the world, mostly if the last fifty years, and it's been done in mass production. I'm only seventy years old and I've seen a massive change in what's sold in the supermarkets in just my lifetime.

[@dadlife8289]

I'm doing animal based and one would think that I don't have enough carbs for endurance sports, but I've been hitting the longest rides of my life with no energy issues.

[@soulcostume]

I'm grateful to see two favorite humans here, exchanging slightly opposing views. Despite my adoring, literally, Paul's spirit and loving some fruits, I agree with Dr. Ken. In my country, in the Balkan, on the seaside, the temperature is between as low as 5 Celsius morning, and up to 18 Celsius mid-day, winter time, a good daily dose of sun and some rain. The currently available fruit, domestically grown are walnuts (from nut fruits), apples, and tangerines. But, in supermarkets, we have pineapples (which I love), bananas, avocados, coconuts, etc. And because there is not as much sun as in the spring/summer, I doubt that my mitochondria can deal with that pineapple or mango, imported from the US. But I buy it rarely, as a treat. That being said, lamb (from Montenegrin 'Alpes') and sardines from Jadransko more (sea) are my choice until Sun becomes more intense, the middle of March 2023. We have honey all year long. Thank you, gentlemen, for this human-proper conversation. 🙏🏻🙏🏻💞💞

[@Anthony_Torres]

This is a great collaboration

[@viramandybur4915]

Thank you, Docs...greatly appreciate this nuanced, respectful conversation.👍