Lilium vs Joby Which Electric Jet Quieter? Noise Level Of LILM & JOBY During Landing | eVTOL

How quiet are Joby & Lilium aircraft during hover? Which is more quiet? Which noise profile is more pleasant? LILM vs JOBY eVTOL (electric aircraft).
eVTOL Playlist • Playlist
AST SpaceMobile Playlist • Playlist
Select eVTOL videos:
🚁 Ultimate eVTOL Comparison: • Which eVTOL Is Better ...
🚁 Lilium vs Joby vs Archer | Which eVTOL Is Better • Lilium vs Joby vs Arch...
🚁 Vertical Aerospace vs Lilium, Joby & Archer. Which Is Better? • Vertical Aerospace vs ...
🚁 Joby Aviation (JOBY) vs. Archer (ACHR) • Joby Aviation vs. Arch...
🚁 Lilium - What to Expect After Business Combination? • Video
🚁 Lilium Capital Markets Day - Part 1 • Lilium Capital Markets...
🚁 Lilium’s Inaugural Analyst Day Webcast • Lilium’s Inaugural Ana...
🚁 Lilium 7-Seater Cabin Unveil. Evolution of Lilium Jets • Lilium 7-Seater Cabin ...
🚁 Joby - Things To Know Before Merger Day • Video
🚁 Joby Longest eVTOL Flight 154.6 Miles In 1 Hour 17 Minutes • Video
🚁 Joby Aviation Analyst Day June 2021 • Joby Aviation Analyst ...
🚁 Joby Aviation Company Overview • Joby Aviation Overview...
🚁 EHang Earnings Call Q1/Q2 2021 • Video
🚁 EHang (EH216) Completes First Trial Flight Over South China Sea • Video
🚁 Archer Aviation Unveil Event Highlights • Archer Aviation Unveil...
🚁 VoloConnect by Volocopter - Extended Urban Transport • Video
🚁 Electric Flying Racing Car Airspeeder MK3 EXA Series • Video
🚁 VoloCity Air Taxi Design by Volocopter • Video
🚁 Volocopter Autonomous Urban Air Taxi Test Flight • Video
🚁 Vahana & CityAirbus Airbus’ eVTOL • Vahana & CityAirbus 🚁 ...
____________________________________
Twitter: FGain2 / fgain2
TikTok: fgain_ www.tiktok.com/@fgain_?lang=en
Instagram: fgainofficial / fgainofficial
#Stocks #Lilium #Joby

[@FGain]

eVTOL Playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLHfrGGnUZnJ272uueXK5_hRngmKcbx5wz AST SpaceMobile Playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLHfrGGnUZnJ106f84_mu3RFnBzpTMCot_ Select eVTOL videos: 🚁 Ultimate eVTOL Comparison: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5OsimScZZqCqLs 🚁 Lilium vs Joby vs Archer | Which eVTOL Is Better kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYjbkHiXZ9hqq9U 🚁 Vertical Aerospace vs Lilium, Joby & Archer. Which Is Better? kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6q8np-rrqdjpLc 🚁 Joby Aviation (JOBY) vs. Archer (ACHR) kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5yllpZ4aNFmoNE 🚁 Lilium - What to Expect After Business Combination? kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqXNXp9veNpkZtU 🚁 Lilium Capital Markets Day - Part 1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3Ldgn1ohN-Cbqs 🚁 Lilium’s Inaugural Analyst Day Webcast kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqeviXaCmL6smJI 🚁 Lilium 7-Seater Cabin Unveil. Evolution of Lilium Jets kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmTIiqycjdOfacU 🚁 Joby - Things To Know Before Merger Day kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqvCnGppjNaih6c 🚁 Joby Longest eVTOL Flight 154.6 Miles In 1 Hour 17 Minutes kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2m0nqttYs58o7s 🚁 Joby Aviation Analyst Day June 2021 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHqcaYCZqdh9fMU 🚁 Joby Aviation Company Overview kzbin.info/www/bejne/eavUq2p8YsiWfpo 🚁 EHang Earnings Call Q1/Q2 2021 kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3bHnmOaiN9qaLc 🚁 EHang (EH216) Completes First Trial Flight Over South China Sea kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZW9g2OYd6lgra8 🚁 Archer Aviation Unveil Event Highlights kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3jJamuOibimrJY 🚁 VoloConnect by Volocopter - Extended Urban Transport kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYS9ooyZd9iMkNU 🚁 Electric Flying Racing Car Airspeeder MK3 EXA Series kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH7Ve4KYl9dkrrM 🚁 VoloCity Air Taxi Design by Volocopter kzbin.info/www/bejne/a528ZYWPnMedmNk 🚁 Volocopter Autonomous Urban Air Taxi Test Flight kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4K3qZtqa5d0mZI 🚁 Vahana & CityAirbus Airbus’ eVTOL kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaKYmZ2fg9efrdk

[@keithwalker6892]

The Lilium looks so neat and compact compared to the crazy bunch of propellers on these other aircraft.

[@Zigblat]

Lilium is not designed to spend much time in vertical mode. It's meant to spend about 30 seconds taking off and landing, where it needs the most power. When it's in cruise mode there's very little noise and it is very efficient. The smaller fans offer lower drag. It is designed for inter city travel not cross town travel, so it won't be hovering above you. In cruise flight it's almost inaudible.

[@dancollins4384]

No, that's completely wrong. Small blades are inherently less efficient, because they have to turn too fast to make up for it. You hear all that noise they're making? That's wasted energy. There's a reason jet engines have become quieter as they've become more efficient. It's because they transitioned from turbojets, which move less air at a higher speed, to turbo fans, with larger fan blades that move more air at a lower speed. High mass flow at low speed is simply more efficient. Look at turboprops, when you can attach a propeller to it it gets even better. The Lillium design is fundamentally inefficient. It's not a serious design, it's an attempt to grab attention and get investors to dump money into the company because it looks cool. You should only use small, loud ducted fans if you are in a serious space constraint. They're mostly only useful for RC aircraft when someone wants to make a model look like a jet without putting a real turbine engine in it. Larger, slower turning ducted fans are different, but that's not what we're talking about here. But then none of these are really serious designs. They all fundamentally impractical. But the Lillium is especially insulting, especially after they tried to claim that their system of a huge number of tiny, screaming fans was "whisper quiet" when taking off and landing. Fewer, larger motors turning larger blades are always going to be more efficient. Also, you're wrong trying to hand wave away the noise it makes in vertical flight mode. That's the noise that matters the most. That's the noise that impacts the quality of life of people around it. These things are supposed to be air taxis, they're supposed to pick people up from the middle of the city, they're supposed to be able to operate from small sites in places where you can't have airports. So the noise level matters the most when it's in vertical flight mode, because that's when it's nearest to other people. That again is why I say this is not a serious design.

[@freddybell8328]

You're forgetting that if you have a larger diameter prop, you need a bigger motor and more energy to rotate it. There's also more drag when spinning that isn't utilized for thrust with a larger prop. Why doesn't Dyson use huge electric motors and blades in their quiet and efficient vacuums if they're so terrible?

[@chrispyak]

Important to note that Lilium's demonstrator doesn't have the airliners that the 7-seater version will use. Therefore it is louder than the final product.

[@FGain]

I think I did mention that in the video. I do wonder, however, how effective these liners would be.

[@williamzk9083]

@@FGain An acoustic liner should get at least 5dB alone, that's quite significant what's typically achieved in a modern turbofan. It should be equally effective on front and rear quadrants. The high frequency sounds of lilium jet will be easier to absorb. There are other methods possible such as different blade numbers in alternate EDF to spread perceived noise or uneven distribution of blades. I suspect modern vertiports or lilipad will be carefully designed to minimize noise leakage and have anechoic lined landing areas and fences as well. The first few seconds of tentative hover during landing and takeoff will be absorbed by this. LiliumJet seems quiet enough to me. In a modern city with roads, freeways, wind tunnels effects etc it will disappear.

[@johnwindmuller4674]

The Lilium demoed is a half scale version, right? Call me crazy but a double size version with noise absorbers will sound different

[@TheArtOfRevolution]

That's really quite impressive for Joby, but I love the design on the Lilium jet. I can't wait til these are regularly in the air!

[@es330td]

I don't think people have really thought about the heightened risks of this form of travel. Once you leave the ground a whole set of variables come into play you don't normally have to think about. I put the success profile of this on par with Tesla self-drive: It is going to work great for most and be catastrophic for a few.

[@theSatanicNaturalists.]

@@es330td what are the risks?

[@es330td]

@@theSatanicNaturalists. If you are driving a car and something goes wrong you can just coast to the side of the road. When something goes wrong and you are off the ground the impact is much more serious. There is a good reason that life insurance for small plane pilots is very expensive. Vehicles like this are being touted as "flying cars for the masses" but real world risk factors are going to make this less desirable that a lot of people think.

[@theSatanicNaturalists.]

@@es330td automobiles & planes can't really be compared on a saftey basis. The risk of something going wrong statistically with aviation is under 1% or "extremely rare". Planes are serviced regularly & often, & has a professional & A.I. operating it. Cars on the other hand pose more of a danger because people "unprofessionals" just get in them & start operating & they don't service them regularly, or know what their doing. Also these eVTOLs are designed like airplanes. So if something go wrong. They won't just fall straight down. They can glide to safety like a airport runway or a body of water & float. Also eVTOLs wouldn't even be in the air if they don't meet the federal aviation administration safety standards. But if you want to talk about safety. Aviation is safer by a long shot. Even if eVTOLs do fail under that 1%. They wouldn't explode or go up in flames or anything. Bc they don't contain gas. & because they can glide. The pilot or A.I. can find the best place to glide to. If they need local authorities to clear a interstate or road or whatever. They can. Planes can literally glide for about an hour. So clearing a section of a roadway. Will be no problem is one needs an emergency landing. Cops do it all the time if a criminal is on the road. 💀 I'm texting to much, you should learn how aviation & aircraft works it's not what you think though. & invest in joby. 🐐

[@es330td]

@@theSatanicNaturalists. I am a pilot with time in C172’s, C182 and a Bonanza. I am very aware of the maintenance requirements for aircraft. You are generally correct about the problem rate in aircraft. These numbers are skewed, however, because turbine aircraft are MUCH more reliable than piston aircraft. EV aircraft are going to be more reliable but they are going to have a different set of issues. Battery health will be critical. Air gets colder with altitude, reducing battery effectiveness. Piston aircraft generate heat as a by product to warm passengers, EV will need to use battery power. FAA rules require a 45 minute fuel reserve plus two alternate landing choices. Batteries don’t like getting charged to 100% and they charge slowly. I’ve flown cross country. When low on fuel I landed for fuel and was back in the air almost immediately. For an EV plane that will be a multiple hour fuel stop. An EV aircraft that is essentially a big multi prop drone now has more things to fail and since these hover instead of glide a failure of any one will likely prove catastrophic. I am not saying this idea is impossible. I am saying there are more hurdles than people are considering in something where the consequences of a problem are much higher.

[@De-Centralized]

Still investing 50/50 in both. Not interested in any of the other eVTOLs.

[@michaelisaacson9735]

A few things here to consider: One, as your viewer, Lenny, noted, the higher-frequency sound profile of the Lilium will attenuate more quickly than the lower-frequency profile of Joby aircraft, and it will. But the attenuation is much steeper than one might believe. Low-frequency sound travels much farther than high-frequency. Wherever either of these aircraft land, it'll be no more noticeable than standing next to a street with moderate traffic. It's just not an issue. My mother-in-law needs a new dishwasher so we've been looking and researching. The best run at 45Db. Most are at 50-60Db. 60Db is room conversation-level. The difference is simply immaterial at that level. I happen to have a cheaper unit that runs at a noisy 65Db. It's so quiet that I can barely hear it run from the next room. Another aspect that Lenny mentioned was that ducted fans are inefficient. Surely, he doesn't think that this is true and that the Lilium team missed it? Thinking that the shroud is there solely to contain possible propeller failure while Joby and all other open-propeller aircraft don't need it...whatever. Ducted fan jet engines are used becasue that's how they work, by compressing air into a smaller space so there's more oxygen for combustion. Ducted electric fans create much more thrust per swept square area, which is why Lilium chose them, obviously. Also, while the ducted fans rotate at a much higher rate, the small diameter of each means that the tensile load on any given blade is much less than would be the load on a much larger and heavier blade, such as on the Joby. Because stuff like that tends to increase with the square of the power of the system, I seriously doubt that there is any material limits being reached by the Lilium motors. Consider that propellers were made of wood for a long time and that wasn't a problem at all, was it? Lenny is loathe to have swarms of Lilium jets flying over his house. In fact, the Lilium is said to be nearly silent in cruise mode. He wouldn't even know one had passed over unless he was looking up at the time. Where vertiports are installed, no one will care about the sound level from these aircraft. It's just a non-issue and that's the main thrust in developing this new industry. Are people complaining the sound of local airports now? No. Your house could be adjacent to a vertiport and even the cat won't get scared and run inside. People used to think that humans would die from suffocation once traveling more than 13mph but you know what? It turned out that humans have no trouble breathing at speeds vastly faster than that and all of the people who thought that it was a going to be a problem are dead. So there. EVTOL's are creating an entirely new industry and travel infrastructure. Since the current travel rate and range is similar between these two aircraft, what will matter most is the cost per ticket, nothing else. As always, the Joby in its current size is limited to four paying passengers. The Lilium carries six and will probably carry 16 when the next version arrives. I still see it as no contest.

[@FGain]

I see people are split in the comment section on which noise profile is more pleasant, that of Joby or Lilium. I consider that to be a good thing. Thank you for the thoughtful comment. You made many good points.

[@ruipedrooliveira4677]

Ont of the best comments I've seen here

[@elkcircle7245]

Some good points and I’d agree that in cruise mode Lilium will not be heard, although the same can be said for Joby because in cruise they will be at a reasonable height above ground. But I heartily disagree with the suggestion that people aren’t complaining about local airport noise now. I fly from a private airpark surrounded by homes, and we have to follow strict noise abatement procedures both on the ground and in takeoff and landing to appease residents, who have knowingly bought homes alongside a runway! The same can be said for many airports I fly into, both public and private. So sound level will be important, particularly in a dense urban environment which these aircraft might be operating.

[@michaelisaacson9735]

@@elkcircle7245 Understood entirely. My point is that small airports exist and have for quite a while. Once in place, I don't see campaigns to close them due to noise. If there is a strip and someone moves near enough to one to be bothered by it after the fact, well, not everyone is very bright. Sadly, small airports close because of the value of the parcel to developers. Dedicated eVTOL vertiports will take up so little space in comparison and the actual, overall sound level will be so low that I can see people intentionally moving near one versus what small airstrips from the past might have engendered. So my point is that if small strips servicing noisy small aircraft have co-existed in residential neighborhoods all these decades, then the sound from eVTOL's is simply not going to be an issue.

[@michaelisaacson9735]

@@ruipedrooliveira4677 Thank you, Rui.

[@Wolf88888]

Noise level IS a critical factor. (Elon Musk even stated this in a discussion on 'flying cars'.) However, I think the issue is a little more complicated than just which aircraft is the most quiet. Perhaps, a better way to frame it would be to ask, "Which aircraft is quiet enough?" If the Lilium design is superior in all other ways (which I intuitively feel it is), and it at least meets the minimum necessary noise levels for a flying taxi in urban environments, then I think it has a very good chance of still emerging as the winner. My gut just tells me that these open-rotor 'drone style' aircraft are a very bad idea for use in populated areas.

[@ruipedrooliveira4677]

Exactly, the "drone-style" evtol are just a bad idea in my opinion, don't differ a lot from helicopters. I intuitively knew the companies to bet on were Lilium and Joby just based on design efficiency

[@Wolf88888]

@@ruipedrooliveira4677 Yep! 👍

[@williamzk9083]

Open rotors have a blade strike issue which severely endangers not only the aircraft but the structure it impacts. A hovering impact accident with a lilium while bad will be much less severe. More a bump.

[@danielhart1524]

@@williamzk9083 I’ve seen a few comments about the potential for strikes with the Joby aircraft. I wish to point out the difference inherent with electrically powered aircraft compared with traditional rotor craft. With the possible exception of special circumstances, such as cold climate operation, electric aircraft such as the Joby aircraft won’t require preflight rotor operation such as a helicopter requires. Electric motors are inherently reliable and can be turned on after the pilot and passengers have boarded.

[@williamzk9083]

@@danielhart1524 Good points but I was thinking of incidents involving rotor clearance during landing and takeoff to nearby objects and also during startup. I agree the risks on a Joby type aircraft should be far reduced.

[@BosonCollider]

Lilium should also be fairly quiet in cruise though. That would be the regime where the ducted fans are more efficient. The shift towards higher pitch also means it should fall off faster at further distances. But I am really impressed by Joby's noise performance

[@williamzk9083]

-I just don't see Lilium Jet as being noisy in vertical mode at all from the video. It's quiet and we know acoustics liners and helmholz resonators will pull of another 5dB. The aircraft even lands on Pasture. - I also think the professional noise cancelling mike setup designed for actors and speaking that the Joby CEO is wired up with is going to reduce the sound whereas with Lilium is just recording audio from a camcorder.

[@kingsleyzissou5881]

I think the commenter at 5:22 misunderstands the reason for using ducts. Lilium is really using an electric jet, not a ducted propeller. They have the ability to modulate the nozzle area, increasing efficiency of the motors in the cruise phase. In terms of aerodynamic efficiency, my bet is that Lilium will be far more aerodynamically efficient than Joby's contraption. The comparison at this stage is also not 'apples to apples' as you say, because the demonstrator does not yet have the acoustic liners. These liners will be aimed at reducing the unwanted high frequency noise. I know you mentioned that but I just wanted to reemphasize it.

[@williamzk9083]

An eVTOL with a range under 160km probably will not find much of a market. eVTOL with ranges such as Airbus's City (85kM) or Volocopter city will be useful but in many cases the trouble of a car journey will not be so bad. Lilium EDF electric ducted fans are inefficient in hover, needing 1.8 x more power in hover than an open rotor but will be much more efficient in forward flight. The Objective of Lilium is to achieved 250km operation range with 6 passengers and reserves. This exceeds the 160km that the uber Elevate white paper said most 'super commuters', the main customers, would need. The demands for hover on Lilium batteries actually have a positive benefit in that they will allow very rapid charging.

[@kingsleyzissou5881]

@@williamzk9083 I think I agree with what you're saying. Lilium's market is different. It's not about accelerating a cross-town commute. It is about opening links between cities where the only current option is congested automobile traffic. The other designs are just toys IMO.

[@xevious2501]

Joby's larger rotors will produce more lift per rotor due to more surface area for the air to travel across, and that means Joby's rotors will not have to rotate but so fast but the question is, how much cavitation with those rotors create, effectively producing the Pulse rotor audible effect or the chopping sound. One must also keep in mind Joby's video's are produced by a film crew. The spokesman ceo is mic'ed up, exterior audio is reduced, then theirs POST production, which the editors can adjust the levels of noise in the studio. so dont believe everything you see / hear in the video. Lilium on the other hand looks as if it was shot with a gopro. no Post production or little their of. its audio more true to life. Personally i would assume the joby to be a more quite aircraft. or at least, its sound profile more easy on the ears. Remember a great deal of noise that an aircraft produce come from its engines, combustion and turbo combustion engines at that which these aircraft do not suffer from. so the levels of noise will be considerably low. Now thats not to say electric motors dont make any sounds. most do.. very high pitched sounds. remains to be seen if these will also carry those traits. But both will be fully accepted by the public. because the very spectacle of their service will drive their popularity. The real question is, how fast can they produce these aircraft. As this new industry success will depend on flooding the skies with these aircraft. Figure it like this, multiple destinations is great, but these aircraft still only occupy 4 people on average (lilium is special with its seven seater) And that means in order for such service to be profitable, it must mirror at least low levels of ground based highway traffic. Its the only way to bring cost down. the more planes the more serviceable destinations the least time constraints all riding on the amount of aircraft to service it all. like Uber its a service that must take the hit of losses before its infrastructure is large enough to then become practical and profitable.

[@FGain]

Great points! Thanks for your comment.

[@williamzk9083]

Modern Microphones have background noise cancellation and are designed to focus on the noise. We really need an acoustic engineer to comment.

[@freddybell8328]

Honestly evtols are never going to change the day-to-day lives of normal people. It will be a niche industry.

[@awicken4061]

Without a meter or some benchmark like a person speaking to camera, we don't know how loud the lilium actually was, or even what the pitch of its noise was. Both are apparently as loud as a regular conversation or quieter. And probably a lot quieter than an ICE bus, truck, or motorbike.

[@ckdigitaltheqof6th210]

Joby is a cross breed of 4- seat helicopter cargo and giant drone control flight, Lilium is more like a 5 seat passenger glider that is elevated by 36 multi mini drones. Lilium is quiter in a distance, but tones are higher close up, oppisit appears in Joby. Liluim looks luxurious, Joby is the head of Madusa.

[@vivianhong612]

Head of Madusa! Good one :)

[@ckdigitaltheqof6th210]

@@vivianhong612 looks like sounds like moves like, it is🤯

[@ZagadkaTeg]

It's not super easy to tell from the videos but it certainly looks as though the Joby props curve down (in TOL position) at the tips. This will function in a way similar to modern airliner wingtips, that is inhibiting tip vertices. These alone will greatly contribute to the low noise profile.

[@elkcircle7245]

Lilium design and engineering: 9/10, sound 6/10. Joby design and engineering: 8/10, sound 9/10. Helicopters: 7/10 and 1/10 but can fly longer distances

[@ruipedrooliveira4677]

Joby design is far from appealing compared to Lilium, but the sound is just the opposite, Lilium is annoying

[@LukeFG]

@@ruipedrooliveira4677 I may be biased, but I like the look of Joby’s. It reminds me of an osprey

[@williamzk9083]

@@ruipedrooliveira4677 It's hardly noticeable to me. A faster rush of air but not much. You'll never hear it in a house, even if nearby. The whole ilium transition is supposed to complete in 18 seconds or less.

[@CarloRizzante]

Great analysis, thank you!

[@yuripimentailustra]

It looks like both the Lilium and Joby are "quiet" enough. I'm just wondering now if any of them could glide safely to the ground in case of a failure. Other than that, the Lilium just looks "safer" with no exposed propellers.

[@jassonsw]

Yes and greater redundancy.

[@williamzk9083]

Lilium Jets undercarriage is being upgraded to allow conventional landings and short takeoff. It makes sense to opperate in STOBL mode if a 100m runway is available.

[@Tangeriine]

Lilium looks dope....sick looking aircraft....Joby looks like designer was drunk.

[@th3n33f]

I have to say Lilium sounds a lot like a passenger jet which is preparing for take-off. Airport sounds make everyone think of going on holiday (in my opinion), which is a good thing.

[@FGain]

That's an interesting perspective. I have not thought about that. Thanks for watching & commenting!

[@nathansolomon2831]

Haha. Well the sound people associate with “going on holiday” will evolve with better tech.

[@williamzk9083]

Lilium uses EDF "Electric Ducted Fans" well known from model aircraft for a decade or two. It is different from a high bypass ratio turbofan in that there isn't the gas turbine core with noise from the high velocity hot air and turbine. Noise will come from the blades themselves which will be dealt with by acoustic liners, shielding, acoustic traps and helmolholz resonators. The other source of noise will be the high speed air exiting the nozzles. The lilum EDF contain nozzles to open up and both slow down the air and quieten it as well as increase hover thrust. Id say when the final version is done the fan blade noise will be gone and all that remains will be the sound of rushing air.

[@abd4620]

Very soothing sound

[@Earther94]

Yehaw, I love this content

[@adicahya]

Some update. Next lillium will use bigger "jet" Diameter, and use less sets of jet engine. They say, it improve the noise level too

[@RLReagan]

I always expected Lilium to be the most quiet. I’m impressed with Joby

[@therainforest4314]

I love seeing this technology in real progress. :)

[@Ben-gg9in]

Big day tomorrow for investors in Joby!!

[@were2man]

Good. subbed

[@thanatos8412]

I actually prefer the noise profile of the Lilium eVTOL aircraft.

[@FGain]

I've noticed that people in the comment section are split on this issue. I consider that to be a good thing. That means that both Lilium and Joby have a great chance in capturing large market share. I'm rooting for both. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@theSatanicNaturalists.]

I could imagine sometime in the future joby making alot of money at truck stops. Especially with the partnership with uber. A eVTOL that sounds like a big vacuum. 💀 hmm no. In person probably not THAT loud. But annoying.

[@FGain]

@@theSatanicNaturalists. Yes, eVTOLs will have many use cases. I think eVTOL manufacturers will not be able to keep up with demand in the first years of production.

[@Ben-gg9in]

I think the military is going to eat this up. Imagine the stealth capability of this at night flying low. Amazing.

[@FGain]

You are not wrong. Joby and Department of Defence (DoD) have been collaborating for many years now. They've been running tests together. Thanks for watching, Ben!

[@PL-jb5hn]

Most interesting comparison starts at 7:00

[@paulcummings55]

Much better than your Lilium-Archer-Joby 'comparison' video. You show both here, and show comparible examples- well done! And while Joby currently has the edge here in sound, both companies have a way yet to go in design elements, and both will probably be acceptable in most circumstances- though having several aircraft in the same space might be a bigger concern.

[@FGain]

Thanks for the feedback.Here is a better comparison of Joby, Lilium, Archer, Vertical Aerospace and EHang kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5OsimScZZqCqLs

[@stickynorth]

Doesn't matter if nothing gets commercialized... I have fully confidence in both platforms!

[@Jeff-wb3hh]

Joby is the clear winner in quietness and appealing sound, especially is forward cruise mode!

[@pilootje2150]

Re the 10 dB lower noise level demonstrated by Joby: we have to assume it is flying @ OWE, in other words empty. It will be closer to the predicted 65dB @ MTOW

[@fenderstratguy]

1:06 Take it from me, Mr Bouncy Hands.

[@FGain]

😁

[@zyndr_]

Having no experience in the field, I just assumed that open blades would make more noise (even with the advantage of being able to spin the rotors more slowly). So I was surprised at how much quieter Joby was than Lilium (especially given how much Lilium has been talking up how quiet their aircraft is). I would, of course, still want to see independent noise testing of both, rather than just taking the word of the manufacturer. Based on the demo's in this video, I find Lilium noise levels to be totally unacceptable, and I would strongly object to this coming anywhere near where I live. The Joby, on the other hand, I found much more agreeable in both tone and volume, and assuming that there weren't multiple Jobys coming and going every few minutes, I could quite easily 'tune out' its noise and ignore it. If Joby continues to refine and improve on what they've already achieved, then they will effectively be inaudible (to all intents and purposes) which is a *huge* advantage for them that can not be overstated. I prefer the Lilum design, but nice-looks are not going to stop me being woken up by that screeching sound if Liliums were in regular use in my area. I have zero loyalty. Whomever is the quietest will always be the deciding factor for me (barring any other major issues such as safety etc.)

[@williamzk9083]

The Ilium sound levels seem to me completely acceptable even at this point without acoustic liners. It may even be quieter than Joby. Lilium will have more noise from the higher speed air but less noise from blade tip. They are clearly way lower than a helicopter. Yes not as quiet as Joby but still acceptable and remember the acoustic liners aren't in yet and that a vertiport will likely have anechoic rubber mats and a fence that will kill off much sound. The higher frequency sounds of Ilium are much easier to absorb in anechoic liners. You're right about one thing, independent sound measurements are needed. To many tricks can be done with noise cancelling microphones where one microphone is aimed at the speakers mouth and others in a general direction which is subtracted. High end cellphone mics do it.

[@JohnSmartFuturist]

Brilliant video! Thanks FGain for this key comparison, and AgentP and Michael Isaacson for great comments. I've been following this industry since 2018, and I really want it to succeed. Videos like this really help clarify key points. As AgentP notes, the Joby airframe is inherently much safer in mechanical failure. Michael Issacson makes good points that we'll accept the noise of both of these airframes in current helipad and airport infrastructure, but he is quite wrong, in my view, that many American cities will accept the high-pitched TOL (take off and landing) noise of the Lilium in all the new vertiports that will come, especially in the suburbs. Air taxis making this "jet noise" will be able to operate at existing (very limited) helipad and small airport infrastructure, but they'll be blocked from scaling into the suburbs by activists who are greatly and rightly concerned with such noise. NIMBYs won't allow them in new vertiports unless they can eliminate that noise with acoustic liners. I unfortunately doubt that they will be reduce it much. The Venturi effect from all those small tubes generates a lot of that noise, so I doubt they can get rid of it. If they can, every surburb that allows leaf blowers will mandate that the same noise reduction tech go into all those noisy leafblowers that wake up sleepy suburbanites every morning. Cities are mandating electric leafblowers now, (for decarbonization and for noise) but the electrics are still quite noisy. One possibility that would allow noisier air taxis would be very tall suburban vertiports, but those will be very expensive to build. If standard air taxi airframes with big, low-noise props can take off and land quietly with just a four story vertiport with sound baffling at the top, what city will want to build taller ones just for Lilium? Not many. Lilium has a very impressive technical team, and I love their safety-via-simulation strategy, but they made a big leap to go with the ducted fan and nontraditional airframe. Unfortunately I think the high-pitched noise is going to greatly limit their scaling. In my view, Joby, Wisk, and Lilium are a good deal ahead of several dozen other serious OEMs at present. I am hopeful that all three and others in this space, like Beta and Airflow Aero, prosper in what will be a huge new market, with so many vital uses (commuting, ambulance, defense, cargo delivery, wildfires, access to nature, tourism, etc.) But I predict that Lilium will get some serious pushback for use of this airframe in both semi-urban and suburban commuter air taxis unless they can fix the TOL noise. TOL and overflight noise have always been huge issues for new small airport construction, and they are only going to be bigger issues in the years ahead. I predict that noise abatement will become a major political issue as these things scale. We haven't seen the public weigh in on these yet, but they will, as they well should. We shall see!

[@FGain]

Thank you for watching and commenting, John.

[@JohnSmartFuturist]

@@FGain You are doing brilliant work. Thanks for covering this emerging industry so well. Thanks also for your helpful videos on the Canadian Trucker Strike. I'm proud of all those Canadians expressing their pain. Sometimes mass action is necessary to get leaders to reset their priorities. Helping all those who have been displaced by this pandemic and getting our economies back to health are surely the most important priorities now. Our vaccines have been a great and admirable success story but they pale in comparison to the power of nature itself. Omicron and later variants are "natures vaccine" (far less deadly, far more infectious) vaccinating us all again with a new variant, and hastening the end of this pandemic. Epidemiologists like Paul Ewald have long known this is how most pandemics end, but the media and our public health experts are not yet ready to explain that story. I'm optimistic we'll be past a lot of these mandates by Summer, though many won't want to give them up.

[@garyvermaak9470]

The Lilium certainly has been shown to a jet soundwise. Sounds like Harrier jumpjet in the videos posted so far.

[@Marxistsrcnts]

good analyisis

[@ozzyfromspace]

Joby’s noise profile really impressed me!

[@goraygorgulu4773]

It is not the noise that will determine their success. They are not too far a apart as far as the loudness goes, just a noticeable frequency difference. And that is considering we trust the exposure of the microphones used. You won't know it exactly unless they are tested side by side. Smaller fans are louder to move the same volume of air. That is basic information. Their success will depend on the performance in adverse weather, range and unit cost. Not to mention the management team.

[@lohikarhu734]

I wonder about comparing noise level versus load/passenger capacity? Also, the propeller design on Joby seems to prevent higher speeds than the aircraft that were compared.

[@FGain]

Lohi, see comparison of technical parameters in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5OsimScZZqCqLs

[@neinherman9989]

I just wish Joby didn't talk in the video so we could get a clear image of what it sounds like. Because I feel his voice sort of distracts us from focusing on the sound. Tbf he did have the decibel detector.

[@Meddlmoe]

On the other hand, his talking voice is a good reference for the noise level. With the Lilium video we have no reference.

[@FGain]

That's a good point!

[@oneordinarycitizen]

Noise level is important but I don't think that will be the most important thing. It's going to be a combination of noise level and other things like range, price, cruising speed, ease of piloting, cargo capacity, etc etc

[@martinmutunga779]

Joby Aviation sounds like the nature sound.. It imitates the nature therefore not easily recognised

[@Karzi1001]

There's a problem with noise level of EH216. Hope someone is going to fix it.

[@skraman69]

Since eVTOL is going to be used for commuting the city day to day as hydrocarbon driven automobile, yes, sound plays an important role!!! However, there are other several aspects to be considered in terms of flight safety, complying aviation regulations, lesser complication and easy to operate, Lesser training for a common man to use, CAPEX, maintenance cost, efficiency, travel time, life of the aircraft etc., I believe 3 or 4 dB difference between two crafts do not make much difference when you list a score card of various aspects... With on going technological innovations and improvements, it's really a tough question to answer or compare which one is better!!! This eVTOL industry is yet to travel a very long distance to make any judgements...

[@user9b2]

How come there was no Lilium fly by sample?

[@tomgray971]

I don't mind the Lilium sound.

[@TDubya811]

Unclear who will win at this stage Joby/Lillium or another. Maybe there is space for multiple solutions. For me important factors include: Safety Noise level Cost to build Cost to operate Passengers Payload Range Charge time Battery cycle life Ability to fly without pilot in future

[@us-tuontilohja6146]

I like lilium.

[@jimburns348]

My money would be on ducted fans. More safe than open propellers, especially in urban settings, okay for roof landings or open fields. Propeller driven vehicles are like eagles carrying fleas. It’s Lillium all the way. It’ll get you closer to where you need to be.

[@caveman3201]

Jobyyyyy! :D

[@wesleysmith1042]

Well IMO they both will be big winners in the future, some parts of the world will prefer Joby and other parts of the world will prefer Lilium. Most likely the sky will be full of these in 20 years

[@tomblack7087]

How about using earphones? For everyone

[@huibu8987]

noise level will be super low as they all run on electric motors. having ducted fans helps to "control" directing the noise

[@garythornton9317]

I still like the liliums apearince more and ld the noise level is ok with me

[@user-ig9vl8cn6z]

America First

[@AndyRRR0791]

The electric aircraft presented here are for sure not flying at their rated payloads which will influence the noise to some degree and probably quite a lot.

[@chrisemmert1387]

WHY not compare SAFETY and/or efficiency? (Distance traveled per unit of energy)? That is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than noise level when BOTH are much quieter than conventional aircraft. I can SEE you favor Joby but that is likely because you have STOCK in the company. With Joby, if you loose one engine you have lost 1/6th of your ability to stay in the air. With Lilium, if you loose one engine you only loose 1/36th of your ability to stay in the air.

[@FGain]

I did, in my previous videos. For example kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYjbkHiXZ9hqq9U & kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5OsimScZZqCqLs . I do not have a position in any company at the moment. As I mention in almost every video I make about eVTOLs, I believe it is too early to invest in this industry

[@Wolf88888]

@@FGain I own Qell stock, and I think your assessment was completely fair. I just don't believe it is simply a matter of which aircraft is most quiet, but rather, overall which is most appropriate for its intended purpose, which is transporting people in and out of densely-populated environments.

[@FGain]

@@Wolf88888 Agreed!

[@agentp8881]

Lilium has no control surface. The attitude of the aircraft is controlled by fan flaps. It does have 4 flaps in the front wings(2 each) and 8 flaps in the back wings(4 each). So that's plenty of redundancy. However a major control or power system malfunction likely affects all the flaps and lead to complete loss of control. Joby's design still resembles a traditional aircraft, although it is designed to fly by wire, but likely has better chance to handle control or power system catastrophes. Joby's design allows it to do autorotation crash landing or glide a little bit. These are options available to Joby's engineers but basically do not exist for Lilium by design. Joby are based on tried and true technologies. This allows them to move fast towards certifications while control aircraft cost. Joby has flied over a thousand test flights and flied the full scale prototype 150 miles in air. Lilum only has a drone to show you (and Archer has a model that sits on the ground while busy dealing with lawsuits)

[@JohnSmartFuturist]

​@@agentp8881 Well said! I think the Joby airframe is inherently much safer, and its noise advantages are a deciding factor for scale. Lilium has a very impressive technical team, but they made a big leap to go with the ducted fan and nontraditional airframe. Unfortunately I think the high-pitched noise is going to greatly limit their use in surburban vertiports. They'll be able to operate at existing (very limited) helipad and small airport infrastructure, but they'll be blocked from scaling into the suburbs by activists who are greatly and rightly concerned with take off and landing noise. NIMBYs won't allow them in new vertiports unless they can eliminate that noise with liners. I unfortunately think they won't be able to reduce it much. The venturi effect from all those small tubes generates a lot of that noise, so I doubt they can get rid of it. If they can, every surburb that allows leaf blowers will mandate that the same tech go into all those noisy leafblowers that wake sleepy suburbanites up at 8am. People hate those, and are mandating electric leafblowers now, (for decarbonization and for noise) but the electrics are still pretty noisy. One possibility would be very tall suburban vertiports, but those will be very expensive to build. If many of the standard air taxi airframes can take off and land quietly with just a four or five story vertiport with sound baffling at the top, what city will want to build taller ones just for Lilium? Not many. I love the simulation-centered approach of Lilium, and I'm rooting for them to take a good chunk of this disruptive and vital new market for congestion relief in our cities. Joby, Wisk, and Lilium seem far ahead of the other several dozen serious players at present. I am presently invested in all three. But I predict that Lilium won't be able to fly their ducted fan airframe into many new vertiports. I bet that noise abatement will become a major political issue as these things scale. We haven't seen the public weigh in on these yet, but they will, as they should. We shall see!

[@pangrac1]

Why you didnt show Lilum noise, you dont have it?_

[@FGain]

I did. You probably missed that part. It's at 03:46

[@pangrac1]

@@FGain You are right, I missed it. Thank you!

[@FGain]

@@pangrac1 No problem. Thanks for watching!

[@hasanchoudhury5401]

JOBY long.

[@matthiasweidmann8135]

Please forget the Lilium EDF nonsense- it doesn't work. Not for low noise, not for flying. Lilium will never be flying commercially. Never! Noise is inefficiency and the EDF Units produce noise but no thrust. The thrust produced is a velocity for low drag high speed applications, not high efficiency high lift capability . he efficiency of Lilium is so bad they have double(!) the consumption of kw...that is volts x amps. They say its only short time but in several starts and landings the battery is empty without flying! The range is app. 5 miles, the flight time app. 5 min. Without passengers, without cargo!! In flight mode there is no lift from the wings as the EDFs generate part of that- also inefficient thru obstructed airflow. Short: Lilium is for idiots. If the battery for 10 min flight is installed- there is no additional weight for passengers or cargo possible! 440 kg empty, max take off 1000 kg- battery 600 kg (with 120 kwh). Already taken the new battery generation in development assumed. With the existing battery 5 min flight time max. .. empty (!). So far no test flights from Lilium with pilot!!!!! Only 3 demo remote controlled! Joby has completed 1150 flights so far.

[@kfk256]

Wait and see, mate. 😌

[@michaelgoddard9729]

I have a question, why do you people use the term “Jet”? These are in no way a “jet” aircraft unless your redefining what the definition of jet is in the aircraft industry. Oh, Marketing. I see!

[@deanfowlkes]

I did not see anyone answer your question. The answer is that a jet is the high velocity and directed expulsion of a fluid to create thrust. That fluid can be anything like air or water. You are probably thinking that a jet is the large engine you see hanging from an airliner wing. That is called a Turbofan engine (turbine core driving a larger fan blade disk). There used to be longer, narrower versions of this called Turbojets (Turbine cores generating thrust by the expulsion of high speed exhaust gasses). Turbojets are very rarely used any longer because they are inefficient. Yet, aircraft that use either Turbofans or Turbojets are called jet aircraft because they both use the expulsion of air (smaller airmass at higher speeds for Turbojet, and larger airmass at slower speeds for Turbofans) to create thrust. Even diesel, piston-engined boats using enclosed impeller pumps to create thrust are called jet boats.

[@stevemickler452]

Thanks for showing how quiet Lilium noise levels are even without its noise insulation. This seems a silly video. The real issue is that Lilium is a Ferrari while the Joby is a contraption.

[@generalrendar7290]

Sure Joby works, but it's so ugly.

[@franciscojavierlopez7484]

Ehang is very close to getting certified to fly and implementing commercial flights. The other competitors are behind. If anyone is going to raise strongly, it's Ehang. I'm sorry for Archer and Joby, they're not up to the task.

[@minhpham-yh9qn]

You need to talk to expert before you put out videos

[@garyvermaak9470]

The Lilium is loud like a jet, a Harrier Jet!

[@AIZEN0414]

Yes, Joby's jet looks regular, but am I the only one who thinks Lilium's jet just looks ugly? We are talking about 3D transportation but Lilium looks so flat to me.

[@FGain]

Yeah, it's definitely a matter of personal taste. I think the most important metrics for success in this field would be safety, noise level, unit economics and first to the market. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@williamzk9083]

It's a lifting body and conforms to the shape of 4 sitting passengers.