YouTube: Manufacturing Authenticity (For Fun and Profit!)

[@ContraPoints]

Yee

[@sneedfeed7204]

Wow it's actually the real ContraPoints. I love your videos

[@Beo2X]

"real"

[@Beo2X]

finding your comment so early is like being let in on a filthy secret before anyone else

[@lanni5]

Mozher?!

[@josephineblum5506]

It's so weird to see a comment of yours with 24 likes

[@vlogbrothers]

Now I want to watch Lindsay make a cake...

[@spacefacey]

Mood

[@liquidpiss7368]

cereal additions

[@penname8441]

+

[@crayzbotzz700]

Not with fondant though...

[@xwoog5686]

@@spacefacey I was gonna say mood but you beat me to it.

[@plentyofbagels]

I'm about fourteen minutes in and is this conversation with Hank Green where you both encourage people to use Squarespace while framing it as an authentic casual conversation between friends meant to be as incredibly meta and weird and uncanny as it is

[@MRuby-qb9bd]

It's pretty brilliant. Also kind of makes me want to start a KZbin channel consisting only of shitty, sarcastic, unenthusiastic ads for squarespace.

[@esyone3394]

Did you notice they choose to put cameras behind their web cams at odd angles instead of just filming what came off their screens or to the side.

[@millennialcaveman8383]

I did. I still fell for it.

[@sanityismadness]

@@esyone3394 How we know they weren't reading a script for that entire interview? With every "um" and repeated word as part of it? I'm shook.

[@ThePrimevalVoid]

@@MRuby-qb9bd If you do it, I'll be your first subscriber.

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

I'm sure Squarespace was thrilled this was the episode they sponsored

[@jackfruth3738]

AlternateHistoryHub funny enough its more memorable than most they probably are...

[@Takkiebos]

If Nike can pretend to be politically correct, so can Squarespace. :')

[@rivera147]

You're everywhere dude. I'm beginning to question the authenticity of these comments now. Wondering if you're just here to get your name out or get your fans more emotionally invested in you through engagement outside of the setting where they'd usually find you

[@concks982]

Why I didn't expect to see you here.

[@RisqueBisquet]

I dunno! This video is about authenticity and how it's commoditized. In a 4th-wall-breaky kinda way, that makes it extremely on-brand. It's unusual for Squarespace - or any business - to drop _all_ pretense and say "Look. We've a thing to sell. Let's not beat around the bush; we want you to buy it and this is the endorsement we're going for to push it. We good?" ... but that's the message being given here. It's appealing to the intelligence and platform savvy of the viewer. It's still going even now, as we're talking about how effective the sponsorship is. Plus on top of that, they saw this video before it went out and said "Yup, we're happy with this!". So.

[@ronbee8525]

"Leave Britney Alone" reads very different after twelve years of a conservatorship she can't get out of

[@literallyallthingsonice]

Dude, that’s what I was thinking! Shit :(

[@KarishmaChanglani]

I was thinking the same thing

[@delusionsofgrandeur1330]

Right?!

[@Sera-F1nn]

You know, it really doesn't. It just now reads as it always should have been. What Britney was going through then was horrible too. She never caught a break ever since her music debut.

[@jen4k2]

She was absolutely correct.

[@vlogbrothers]

Probably relevant side note: I was part of the hardcore group of lg15 fans in 2006 who figured out that it was a production. (I was not a HELPFUL part of that group, because I was wrong about everything, but I was an all-the-way-down-the-rabbit-hole lg15 fan, which definitely shaped my ideas about what KZbin was for and could do.) Anyway, great video. Everyone please subscribe to the vlogbrothers. -John

[@adityakhanna113]

Me during John's Scavenger Hunt

[@finchcarvingadiamond]

I'm not kidding- that is how I know about lonelygirl15. The thing that John lost his shit over in 2006. :)

[@LindsayEllisVids]

you monster(s)

[@Nerule]

Ironic maximus

[@bartz0rt928]

I'm already subscribed, but I did take the opportunity to lovingly caress that like button.

[@PhilosophyTube]

Loved this! Thank you for it! It's really different approaching KZbin and authenticity and fan interaction through being an actor, it's a different mindset when it comes to truth and affect I think...

[@violettbellerose1173]

Oh gosh, Olly, I didnt knew you watched Lindsay Ellis, you are the best!

[@andrewraby8008]

I'll second that. You're the best Olly

[@ShaedeReshka]

I see occasional overlap between Lindsey Ellis, Contrapoints, Peter Coffin, and Philosophy Tube. How deep does this rabbit hole go, though?

[@dnys_7827]

Philosophy Tube I find this relevant to your recent comments about the future of left-tube (elon musk video). you guys seem to be having something of an existential crisis about your relationship to capitalism. that's a good sign in my book.

[@andrewraby8008]

Hbomberguy shows up on all of their stuff. Shaun as well

[@schoo9256]

This video puts into words why I loved it so much when Brian David Gilbert revealed his new haircut and moustache on an episode of Unravelled, and told the camera "I'm not your friend and you can't tell me what to do with my body", and then just... proceded to do the rest of the video. It was some much-needed distance.

[@Saturn-gs6wl]

It also made me think about how even though I logically know Unraveled was (rip) superscripted it still could pull it off with the end things or the interactions with Pat/Clayton/Jenna (though they are their own people with developed character from other videos) those things were still probably scripted and it offered a much-needed puncture to the egg I was existing in

[@NZsaltz]

@@Saturn-gs6wl that's very true, especially with the quarantine videos and especially since multiple videos were scripted by people other than BDG. you do have to wonder, though, since we know the Breath of the Wild cooking video wasn't scripted and it was really funny.

[@misacruzader]

As a Disneyland cast member, thanks for the shoutout. Being nice to people is fun for me, but some people make it NOT fun. It can become a sort of power play to be extra nice to someone who is trying to crush my spirit... but I DO still drink after every shift SO--

[@BradyPostma]

My unrequested sympathies go out to you. Stay healthy.

[@Sylvia-lb8dw]

This is inspiring

[@JackgarPrime]

I'm a pretty patient and friendly guy, but I'm not sure if even I could keep that up all day, every day, around the sheer volume of people you surely have to interact with every day.

[@thecatladytm7172]

I've seen people be super rude to the cast, usually entitled adults or little kids who don't know better. And I've only been to Disney once, so I can't imagine how much it happens in any given day. Props to you for being able to deal with that, when I was there I tried to let the cast members I met know that they do a good job at what they do. I hope you stay safe, healthy, and hydrated! 😊❤

[@christineherrmann205]

@@BradyPostma this is exactly what I was thinking. I read this and thought "Hope you're OK, especially reopening during COVID."

[@52bluey71]

KZbinrs have sold their audience the fantasy that they aren't customers.

[@TheEmmaHouli]

That's because we are not. The audience is the product.

[@Binstone]

"the best slaves are those who are convinced they are free"

[@jmalmsten]

"if you aren't paying for it, then you are the product." Google pay KZbinrs to package their viewers as a commodities so that Google can sell guaranteed viewership to advertisers. Of course there is KZbin Premium, Patreon, IndieGoGo, Kickstarter, paypal, etc. etc. That makes the viewer more of a customer than the commodity to be sold. But these people are still a minority and the advertisement angle is still more lucrative for the big guys it seems.

[@scottwatrous]

We all should know we're part of a giant exchange, it's rarely non-obvious. We hold a lot of power in our end, but do give up a lot in exchange for what we get. Each actor in this exchange can say similar things.

[@scottwatrous]

Also, even if you're using adblock, you're still contributing data to the system. You're still subject to all the Squarespace and Lootcrate and other embedded plugs. You're still getting told to smash that like and donate to Patreon and your view, even if it doesn't earn an ad play, does contribute to the engine enough that KZbin keeps showing you the content.

[@larsklamer5113]

Somehow, because I'm so used to the way Lindsay normally talks, her conversation with Hank felt the most manufactured and 'fake' part of the episode, even though it was probably the most 'real'. Exactly proving the phenomena she describes. Funny how that stuff works out.

[@lunarotimas]

I always find myself surprised at how lindsey sounds on livestreams

[@ethan6287]

Undoubtedly intentional.

[@FouEliane]

Lars Klamer yes, we register it as an interview format, and our brain goes *STAGED*

[@erik-janvanoosten1450]

yes! the staggering amount of "like"s thrown between every other word made me think she was parodying someone.

[@celinak5062]

21:50 29:52

[@TalkingVidya]

"You're one of the good ones" Coming back to this after... The incident, makes it all more scary

[@ItsAsparageese]

How funny, I'm also rewatching old favorite Lindsay videos after particularly enjoying her finally taking her mask off 😂 Can we all call it "The Incident" for forever? I love the mystery and gravity and delicateness that gives it lol

[@afaultytoaster]

what incident

[@ItsAsparageese]

@@afaultytoaster Lindsay got cancelled. She's obviously a terrible person, radleft Twitter said so :P

[@weofparadigm]

My favorite part is in "the rap" that the video ends with her Twitter link and the words "yes i caved in" like damn thats eerie

[@lasseheller9863]

@@ItsAsparageese it's not radleft, it's just very insecure

[@TimothiusBelmont]

"You're the good ones." You made me feel genuinely guilty for behavior that I have never engaged in. Kudos.

[@b3b3j4y]

what did u do?

[@markblocker4981]

I just became one of the good ones. I subscribed because this is the most insightful channel I've yet seen, even if that insight is somehow less than "authentic".

[@danielfogli1760]

Hey no shame in being one of the good ones 🤣

[@amyhannon3034]

Oh yeah that held stare was perfect. I laughed!

[@markblocker4981]

@Other , many people have an emotional connection to the truth/authenticity. And an aversion to being lied to. So she's playing a head game very skillfully in my book. Gets me thinking anyway, probably lots of us. What does our culture say about us? Is it getting better or worse? How do we know?

[@kilimenjiro3753]

So many comments like "Oh yeah? Well you're not authentic either, so you're one to make fun of these people" Umm... yeah. She's very clear that her persona she presents in her videos isn't really her "authentic" self, it's a persona she puts on. And she's not making fun of them, she very clearly states at the end "This is more for your information, these people, myself included, are churning out a product, it's just faux 'authenticity' is what these creators use." This is a critical analysis of something, if you automatically think this is attacking these other creators you're not paying attention.

[@themaskedpicori6085]

You could also make the argument that it's *an* authentic part. I mean, I'm not a youtuber, but I still act differently in different environments (at school, at home, at work, outside) and when speaking to different people (my parents, my teachers, my siblings, my friends, randos). Which one is the "authentic" me? Fuck if I know.

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@themaskedpicori6085 As someone on the spectrum, I'm always being inauthentic. I'm masking things about myself, including that I'm "normal", whether I do it deliberatly or not doesn't matter. At the end of the day, everyone puts on an act, it's just that myself(and other people on the spectrum too) are always acting just to look "normal"

[@MyssBlewm]

"No man can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which one may be true." - Nathaniel Hawthorne

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@MyssBlewm NGL I do kinda feel like that sometimes. But I think of it as having a public persona which everyone sees and the real me, which is metaphorically hidden in a closet.

[@LG123ABC]

@@Jamie-kg8ig "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players;" -- William Shakespeare

[@roippi3985]

I have legitimately felt a sense of horror when smallish creators I follow start actively Calling me To Action. It feels... like the seams are too obviously showing, as you put it. Thanks for exploring this.

[@Chipiliro613]

... smaller creatures...

[@TheRealGovika]

23:07 "I'm a woman and speaking with any kind of confidence feels aggressive." Unintentional social commentary with Lindsay Ellis

[@michaelkulakov9716]

Or an intentional ploy to make you feel the authenticity

[@SteveAyanami]

@@michaelkulakov9716 naw it's real.

[@gluestickgenius2644]

@@michaelkulakov9716 the topic of the video made me question every scene and sentence

[@nazor1]

I'm not a woman, but I still feel this

[@Alsyoutubeaccount]

What about that social commentary seems unintentional? Maybe because she’s a woman you assume she doesn’t know what she’s saying.

[@MrSegrist]

Dang...this is some aesthetically adventurous, next-level, meta-media studies argumentation. I enjoy all your videos, but, this was something else!

[@benwoodward5273]

MrSegrist Was this a deliberately ironic example of interpreting medium as message? 🙂

[@progfoxmusic]

he didn't say aesthetic, he said aesthetically adventurous, get out of the meme zone

[@RiotAncient]

PHEW FOR A SECOND THERE I THOUGHT SHE WAS CALLING US OUT AS A FACELESS MASS OF CONSUMERS BUT NO WE'RE THE GOOD ONES *breathing heavily*

[@jiffylou98]

*breathing heavily*

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

i'm the best.

[@vincentmuyo]

Oh no! Being evil is a core component of my persona! D:

[@MarkReidAtheism]

Yes, isn't it fantastic that she understands each and every one of her subscribers on a personal level. Right..............RIGHT?

[@dakunssd]

We're all individuals here!! ALL OF US!

[@harlanhardway5955]

This sounds a lot like the same shit teachers deal with. Teachers don't stop being "role models" when they clock off. They can't just tell a student they're off work. Yeah, their audience is smaller, but it's live and it shops at the same grocery store.

[@scaryfaced1]

The old joke that teachers drive out of town to buy liquor isn't really a joke. Once you're a known part of the community, you're on the clock 24/7 from the moment you walk out the door till about 15 miles outside city limits.

[@holdenmuganda97]

Idk I’ve seen a few teachers at the bar and they get down lol

[@scaryfaced1]

That's completely true too, actually. To be fair, its one of the few places we can expect not to see students.

[@VIIStar]

I didn't teach long and yeah, it makes life difficult. Being an artist and teaching, it was like, oh god are they going to google me and what will they see ^^;

[@harlanhardway5955]

Social media only makes it more difficult. You can be held accountable, not just for what you post, but for what other people post about you, or @ you. If a student sees you somewhere on vacation, or after school, they might think it's funny to take pictures and post about it. This happened to a friend of mine who was out to dinner. It was pretty harmless, she was just eating with some friends, but the student didn't say hi or anything, just took a photo and tweeted it out. She found out the next day and was kinda weirded out.

[@AlaskaGatsby]

I work in a group home for disabled adults. Its interesting how much the labor of being a youtuber is similar to what I do. I come into a home and have to act like my job is family, not work. Clients say "I love you" and theres so much pressure to say it back because if you dont then you must be a bad person who doesn't care about your "family." These clients know nothing about my actual life outside of work, but I have to keep up this facade so the clients still trust me, like how youtubers have a facade of showing us their whole lives.

[@engraverarnold9416]

WHOA. Thanks for the perspective!

[@mophead_xu]

i do similar stuff, except it's for a family member. the blurred lines are extremely confusing and at times, even a source of shame. in a society that places great value of devotion to families, asking/taking payments for said devotion might as well be called heresy. the choice for me was either be a heretic or do the same stuff regardless with no income whatsoever given it's a full time "job". so a heretic i became. none of my family members/relatives know what's going on in me life as well with the sole exception of my mother. and they don't care what impact this "job" multiplied with shame and occasional shaming made. as long as i smile, and my "client" smiles, all is well.

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

Insight gained

[@alexan2857]

This is a really interesting perspective to read. A lot of us take for granted the emotional labour that goes into many jobs, especially in instances such as yours. Sometimes it is easier for people to see things as genuinely authentic than to question the motivation and reasoning behind them, I suppose.

[@sophiehart1999]

I think this connection is very interesting as well. I think this is because the relationship is not reciprocal. Sure, we as workers and KZbinrs get paid for their labour but it's all a one-sided connection. People feel like they know KZbinrs for the content they create the same way our clients know us for the services we provide at work. My clients don't know what I'm like outside of work and I don't know what influencers are like off of social media. Then I wonder... I don't think my clients necessarily have a right to know what I am like outside of work YET all fans of influencers believe they have a right to know everything about the people they follow and their lives. Thanks for making this connection, it has allowed me to reflect a lot.

[@Yora21]

Lindsay and Hank seem like just the right people to have this video. They appear to me as two people who are "genuinely inauthentic". Their style of presentation does not create the illusion of being spontaneous and unfiltered but is open about being well thought out and carefully prepared. But even while the presentation appears very calculated, the message comes across as very genuine. Precisely because it appears that they aren't trying to hide the artificial nature of the presentation. Though of cause, they might be soulless capitalists who carefully crafted just that illusion and successfully tricked me. ;)

[@stellatunge2034]

This is exactly what I wanted to say but I couldn’t find the right words. So thanks for being more articulate than me lol.

[@Nebukanezzer]

But if you know that she knows that you know she knows you know you know you know

[@sexyscientist]

@@Nebukanezzer I don't think you know what you think you know baby But baby don't you think that I know what I know maybe Baby I know what you think that I don't know

[@kneedeepinthepassengerseat]

They're both authentically inauthentic

[@stephpiano2908]

I've met Hank twice and he's a genuinely lovely and awkward person - everything he presents himself as on his channel. When I watch his videos it only feels like someone who is well prepared to give a speech and is confident in what they are doing and saying, rather than trying to con people into something. They don't really make KZbinrs like that anymore tbh.

[@QuintonReviews]

Man I was gonna write a video today but I think I need to take some time off. This is really thoughtful and cuts straight to the issue. Thanks for this.

[@1plusAidan]

I thought about you when I was watching this

[@squirrel1331]

ily

[@op_player7097]

Yo, Quinton, big fan

[@srtxf]

Quinton Reviews While, on some selfish level, I wish that the creators I love could post more content, I try to appreciate all the work video essays like these that. And that is not counting what it means to have a public persona to maintain. The type of videos you do take effort, time and reflection to complete and it shows. In your Fallen Titan #3, you mentioned you aspired to be part of a community of reviewers similar to what they used to portray. Please know that for me, I cycle through Linday's, Jenny Nicholson's, Folding Ideas', Pop Culture Detective, FilmJoy, hbomberguy and (more recently) Sarah Z's content. From the brief time I connect to twitter, I gather that some of these channels may be connected/the creators may know each other, but I am happy to be able to enjoy all your content independently! Your content is great and while I love to see more of it, I would rather have the creators I love posting less videos if it means the quality of the videos (as well as their quality of life) is there. If you need time off, please do so. Your fans will wait (please excuse any weird sentence structure.. english is not my 1st language)

[@bobdylan5056]

Hi Quinton

[@ayde92829]

23:00 " ..a woman: speaking with any-kind of confidence sounds aggressive." I spent years' working in the hospitality industry, trying to explain this exact concept to myself. Whenever I couldn't hold the tone of my voice in a squeaky high saccharine pitch; I'd be treated horribly. There's this strange gas-lighting that happens in the service industry. Women are held to a different standard than our male-counter-parts. While I prefer to have an exacting stoic persona; I found myself disallowed to act in this way. Constantly being asked if I was "okay" when I didn't have the emotional energy to put behind creating this false perky stereo-typically feminine personality. 'Emotional Labor' Whoa, thanks so much for explaining this concept:

[@VultureClone]

Ever been told by a man to smile more? Yeah, women in public need to be perky, smiling, energetic and (ideally) pretty to be acceptable in any way, shape or form. Anything else and we're seen as being "difficult" or "bitchy".

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

​@@VultureCloneHonestly I have just accepted that fact, and the fact I could never act due to personal distaste and the fact I dont have high levels of social energy, and turned it to my advantage. It really helps to chase men away when you look like you will murder them with a pick-axe if they come closer and say anything rude. It also helps to think murder and then walk. So, if you're sick and tired of being told to smile on the street, be a bitch. Own it. However, I do know it means that I will struggle in any kind of service industry. And I will probably not rise in any corporate job. But then again, even if I am naturally their idea of a Perfect Women, I probably wouldn't in anyways. Yay... Sexism... I wonder if men have to juggle these things in their daily life... Or just in another way? Maybe not. I also have high levels of respect for women in service industry who manage to survive every shift. Like damn.

[@LegioXXI]

@@VultureClone Maybe its because i live in (east) germany, but no women here is ever told that she has to act "feminine" or whatever. But there is a difference between being confident and being arrogant - and yes this affects both genders. Still remember the one train staff woman in a train that said my train ticked was not correct (even tho it was accepted in the two previous trains by male staff), this woman was aggressive as heck and even called me by my first name like i was a fucking kid (i was over 20 that time). This was just straight out bitchy and god knows what she had to compensate. Sadly a lot of people (again, both genders) tend to mix "being confident" and "being arrogant".

[@R3volutionblu3s]

I hate to break it to you, but being expected to be cheerful and outgoing in the service industry regardless of your personal feelings is not something limited only to women. While I will refrain from passing judgement because I don't know you, there is also the possibility that what you perceive as 'stoic' and 'exacting' does come across to others as being a jerk. I know this from experience because a number of friends over the years have told me that their first impression was that I was "A bit of an asshole". I'd known I wasn't the most outgoing person on Earth, but never realized that some people saw my behavior as rude. I would also suggest that when you set a pattern of behavior (Such as appearing cheerful and outgoing) and then break that pattern, people may genuinely believe that something is wrong. I would hesitate to jump to the conclusion that being asked if you're okay is gas-lighting, rather then just polite concern for your well being. To quote the great poet Gibby Hanes of 'Butthole Surfers' fame: "You never know just how you look through other people's eyes"

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@R3volutionblu3s While true its in How its asked Why its asked and Who asks it A friend? Sure. But this random man that has been eyeing you, giving off vibes that set off every single warning bell in your head? No. Just nope. It can also become a problem with tone. Women are expected to carry every bloody emotion from here to there, yet are considered over emotional. Mad? Oh you must be on your period. I wish that wasn't something Ive heard over and over, in school, around my male friends, but sadly I have. When you're a woman it can also be harder to climb the ranks or to be left alone to do your god damn job whether you act perky or not. It just comes in different forms. We understand, however we are talking about the truly unwanted stuff. I mean. Its a universal truth that working in retail sucks arse. This is a complicated, interwoven subject that honestly deserves four essays. It doesnt work too well in a KZbin comment section. I know this is rather disjointed but yea, I actually have to study for a test. :'3

[@fligglebobbin]

Hank Green: We need to be physically present with others. Me: (1.5 years later during a nationwide quarantine) If only I could

[@rachelppython]

@fligglebobbin My thoughts exactly.

[@Variocom]

Came here to say the same thing. Hahahahaaaaaa ouch...

[@ianhruday9584]

You beat me to it.

[@Elucidarian]

TOO REAL

[@S404_44]

global*

[@Ash-ub5rf]

My professor assigned us to watch this and do a summary of it. You just gained a new sub. Love these! Can’t wait to watch everything else!

[@IamMissPronounced]

Wow, I wish I had your professor!

[@R3GARnator]

What subject is that class?

[@Stupisms]

@@R3GARnator Everyone Clapping i suppose

[@guilhermegigeck5946]

@array s I'm binge rewatching here, one day we shall meet again.

[@MxPokirby]

@@rippspeck You sound like you're either in middle school or a retirement home. Regardless, stop spouting bullshit about things you don't understand.

[@andrewwestfall65]

What Hank Green said about the "internet persona vs the real him" reminded me of Leonard Nimoy. Nimoy had mentioned that the persona of Spock eventually bled into his normal personality and that he was changed from this performance.

[@nihildomini]

I just wanna say, I know you didn't address emotional burnout with regards to your own videos and channel, but I feel like whenever I see one of your videos it genuinely improves my life in a way I don't expect and can't really quantify. I just kind of feel a bit wiser for having seen them, and I'm certain they incrementally make me a better person. So even though I'm a rando you dont know or will never meet, you've still had a positive impact. And, guessing by your sub count, you can probably multiply that feeling by a couple hundred thousand.

[@johannageisel5390]

Yep! I'm one of that couple hundred thousand.

[@art-is-awen8842]

Definitely one of those people as well

[@DrTumb]

Reporting from somewhere in europe, and yea-Im a part of that few hundred thousand.

[@Shrooblord]

Adding to the numbers here.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

+ I echo this sentiment. I was just thinking of writing a similar content.

[@shockofthenew]

Several years ago, in the basement of the art school I was attending, I found a sticker on the wall on which someone had written: "The medium is the message. And the medium is cake." and I'd forgotten about it until I watched this video.

[@danilonascimento9866]

And the cake is a lie

[@oliviabrazier6681]

Reminds me of those tiktok videos where they cut into realistic cakes

[@Tatarync]

I never knew I wanted a half-hour deep-dive into cake baking KZbin channels, but I sure did.

[@skimblebanks]

thank you for this callout against the horrible culinary abomination that is fondant

[@kamilee4123]

MrBanks IsSaved I've had good fondant (this one bakery nearby makes good fondant) but yeah most of it is trash.

[@JulianneHannes]

Death to fondant.

[@susanalopez5052]

Hey homemade marshmallow fondant is actually kinda good, if you like getting diabetes

[@xylophone897]

@@susanalopez5052 don't worry, the diabetes won't set in for another 10, 20 years.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

It's only great from an engineering standpoint. It's a smooth but durable layer you can food dye, making huge difficult cake art into a weird paper craft.

[@MessyElliott]

The conversation with Hank was low-key the best squarespace ad I've ever seen. EDIT: That part about creator burnout hit close to home. Definitely been there more than once.

[@bookworm3756]

I love you channel name. Also I agree.

[@CODMarioWarfare]

And why was it effective? Because it seemed more authentic! The context of discussing manufactured authenticity demonstrated a degree of self-awareness, giving the viewer's mind more reason to believe this declaration was actually authentic. Funny all the ways that happens.

[@harrison298]

I love the fact that that Hank is using a camera BEHIND his webcam, with the top of his monitors peeking into frame, to give us the sense that we're in the room with him, peering over his desk setup.

[@TobyChampion]

I thought that was cool too.

[@robertwelch550]

The quality of this video caused me to interact with the content creator.

[@unflexian]

The quality of this comment caused me to interact with the OP. also 420th like uwu

[@thegameneededme5]

A big thing for me is just- don’t bullshit me. I understand people need to make a living, so I’m not against sponsorships or advertising, *as long as it’s disclosed* that it is sponsored.

[@WinterSPF15]

Same! I prefer it to be a few seconds or maybe even a minute of straight up honest promoting for whoever or whatever is sponsoring the KZbinr. I don't like it at all when people try to make it "natural", it just comes off as slimy to me. I also feel like it makes a difference if they seem like they really believe in the product or not, although I get why you would promote something you're not CRAZY about if they offered enough money (I mean, I would too).

[@Paralellex]

Honestly, that sort of dishonest, hidden in plaitmn sight advertising is a real big pet peeve of mine. So much so, that when I see too much it gives me a massive headache and I have to go lie down and take some Advil® Liqui-Gels®, the Only Liquid Filled Capsule® Clinically Proven to Work Fast!

[@jtom416]

@@Paralellex God damn it, ya boomed me!

[@Perri-Winkle]

Pretty sure it's illegal to not disclose it.

[@Thenoobestgirl]

@@Perri-Winkle it didn't use to be but it is now

[@Babakifo]

"I am the version of myself that I need to be for my own... mental health, but also for, like, the impact that I'm gonna have on other people."

[@kittenmagebone5494]

"I don't have to worry about you guys, you're the good ones" sounds vaguely horrifying and is causing me to experience existential dread.

[@kreiger]

Why?

[@salmonandsoup]

@@kreiger Because it's not true. Lindsay DOES have to worry; the reassurance is completely empty, and she highlights that with that flat delivery and dead-eye stare. Kittenmage could pick up on the irony and the sobering truth of the matter, and it gave them dread because of the way KZbin consumers can act when they love or they hate you. It's frightening.

[@ignaciomartinez6245]

@@kreiger It's scary because, when you're part of an internet crowd, you have to be extra careful what you do. Any minor mistake you make will also be independently done by a million other people. Even if you let yourself have a 1/1000 probability of harassing someone, that person will get a thousand harassing messages.

[@ellap73]

@@salmonandsoup This has aged like a fine wine since the twitter mob went after Lindsay and the posting of the "Mask Off" video. Some people are so horrible.

[@Rapscallion227]

I’m so glad you’ve found success beyond Channel Awesome. You deserve it.

[@michaelchikos7376]

Aatolviina Järvi shit i had no idea she was on channel awesome

[@adren4306]

@@michaelchikos7376 Yeah, she was "the Nostalgia Chick" for a while.

[@QUINT34577]

ahhh thats where I have seen her....cheers

[@michaeloconnell3325]

This made me realize I know her from Todd in the Shadows videos and that’s why she looked familiar

[@houston-coley]

This might be Lindsay's magnum opus. But then again, didn't I kinda say that about the last 3 videos too?

[@Manas-co8wl]

I think this actually is my favorite

[@Arrakiz666]

Still think the one on capitalism is her most essential work because it creates several bridges between otherwise very insular spaces. In one fell swoop it combines KZbin leftism, socialist deconstruction of modern values, analytical diatribe and all their communities into one. It's like a Federation space bridge, it's one giant focal point of connections.

[@samland9570]

HoustonProductions1 She’s the Michael Jordan of video essays.

[@bugglemagnum6213]

HoustonProductions1 sad

[@ohmandamp]

HoustonProductions1 youtube creators are working 24/7. They never stop working. Even when they are doing something other than shooting or writing or editing, the ideas are marinating in the back of their minds.

[@greynearing4822]

As a college professor, the teaching portion of my job (formally 50% of my job) is judged primarily on how students rate me in surveys. This video describes exactly how I feel. Judged on an ability to develop an emotional affect instead of purely on content.

[@weareallbornmad410]

Interesting; I never thought about it that way. I'm evaluated via student surveys, too. And for sure they don't fill them based how academically sophisticated my content was. But teaching isn't about having academically sophisticated content anyway, is it? I _need_ my students to feel respected and enjoy coming to my class, or they'll only learn a fraction of what I'm trying to teach them. I need them to engage with the material; that pretty much means I also need them to engage with me. You still need great content, of course. There's a balance to all things, I guess. Where do you teach?

[@Valyrianalien]

The emotional affect is part of the content a professor has to provide, though. Otherwise we could just study from books and papers and wouldn't need to pay for university. As a lazy student there is nothing more annoying than going to a lecture only to get the exact same experience as I would reading the textbook. But, just like with a waiter, I know that whatever emotions professors are showing is probably not how they're actually feeling, they're putting in effort to help us learn. That is not necessarily the case with youtubers, where I often can't tell if they're being genuine, and I don't really care as long as there is sufficient illusion of authenticity. That is the difference between youtubers and other jobs with emotional demands.

[@bobfearnley5724]

@@Valyrianalien This is so true. My favorite teacher engages the material with his students very well, but in real life, when you go to his office, you find out that he is a completely different person. That interesting and friendly facade collapses into a angry and easily irritated personality.

[@weareallbornmad410]

@@arisakawano6396 Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) I always enjoy making a connection with my students. I'm sorry to find some professors do not, it's an inseparable element of teaching.

[@3Rayfire]

Half rated on student ratings? That seems like a system insanely vulnerable to abuse. It'd be like a child having to rate their parent the day after they were told they couldn't have more sweets.

[@patreekotime4578]

Coming back to this video a year later is pretty interesting. I've been watching a lot of Conan O'Brian's videos and he has really mastered all of this. He now regularly has his staffers appearing as a character version of themselves, both on the formal show, as well as in elaborate "behind the scenes" skits. This is enhanced by a podcast run by staffers that provides a really interesting look at how the show is produced as well as great interviews with current and past staffers. The look behind the veil is now firmly a part of the Conan brand. What started out 20 years ago with the occassional clumsy walk through the office, is now elevated to high meta-contextual art... To the point where the inner-office dynamics of his relationship with his employees is now basically a mini soap opera occuring parallel to the talk show itself. It's really bizarre and wonderful all at once.

[@anam00090]

What also contributes to this is that Conan has better chemistry and more interest interacting with his staff, rather than celebrities he has to pretend to care about, as they are only there to sell their project. And as time passes he kinda has his own Conan universe, where Sona gives life advice, Jordan lives in his own weird bubble, Aaron is there in all things digital, Kramer makes occasional appearance and all of them have quirkier personalities than most guests Conan interviews. Also, I think Conan is a rare breed of someone that has chemistry with almost everyone, he can maneuver every tricky situation with pure class. Some “Conan without borders” episodes kinda put him in seemingly non-manufactured problematic situations where locals were angry he was there and you could see him operate in a way that many would not manage. There is a degree of authenticity there, just engulfed in a healthy dose of not taking themselves too seriously and collectively embracing the silliness.

[@RLybarger1986]

The interaction of the host with the crew is also a means of reducing the pressure on the host to hold the relationship with the viewer. It also creates a feeling of belonging in the viewer. It is essentially, a slice of community. PS. I love that your videos are thought out, comprehensive and insightful and therefore you are rightfully confident.

[@letsreadtextbook1687]

The crew being off camera but right in front of her facing the camera make the illusion if her openness talking to the audience. As opposed to, if the crew are in view, the audience would feel not included in the conversation.

[@DeathnoteBB]

I always wondered why Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed-like channels did this. They would show the whole “backdrop” and lights, crew off-camera would have lines at times. It all felt weirdly intentional yet unprofessional. The set was as clean and neat as you’d expect but they let you see “behind the curtain” to a very small extent. Now I know why.

[@user36able]

Ahhhhh so that's why I like Jenna Marbles so much (she usually does some silly makeup related thing while talking to her off camera boyfriend, Julian, who will make jokes about what she's doing. IE Jenna will be gluing rhinestones to her entire face while off camera you can hear Julian say "that's so dope" or "you look like Crystal Meth Santa". And when you watch these videos you do kind of feel like you're part of their "family" in some way, and part of their conversation. Often Jenna will directly mention her viewers - she'll often just do something that a viewer requests - i.e she once turned her hair into a railroad track for a toy train, just because a Twitter follower asked her to. (and it worked!) So you do feel like you're part of a community when you watch Jenna's videos, whether thats part of the viewer community or Jenna and Julien's private life. BTW I love Jenna and Julian's work - Julian has a great channel where he does vlogs and cooking videos- the comment above was just a very insightful summary of part of her appeal).

[@RianPhin]

LIVED when Lindsay challenged the notion that she was combative and instead suggested that because she's a woman speaking with any degree of confidence she's perceived that way because TEA.

[@landenmartin35]

but why? what does tea have to do with anything? sit down, explain

[@RianPhin]

Landen Martin tea means I agree

[@quibquiberton4184]

I guess it's pretty sad that someone should think that.

[@RianPhin]

Ms.Queue so well said, and agreed

[@quibquiberton4184]

Ms.Queue I think it depends how you grew up. It was reversed in my family. My mom thought she knew everything and my dad was too timid to assert anything.

[@geraldgreen6794]

Imagine a nearly 30 year old black man fan girl screaming at the sight of Hank Green in this video. That was my reaction when he showed up lol.

[@rebekahcastro5430]

Omg same tho DFTBA

[@shinyumbreon696]

Don't worry, fangirling happens to everyone at some point or another. ...wait, why isn't "fan-man" an internet phrase? I think we've established that men are fans too and y'all, *it rhymes*.

[@robinchesterfield42]

I KNOW! (Former) Nostalgia Chick interviewing Hank Green...and then I realised: _They're both on PBS now_ ! So, perhaps not such an unlikely combination after all. Lindsey has now joined the likes of Crash Course, Sci-Show, Eons, Origin of Everything, Hot Mess...yes I watch a lot of these shut up. :P

[@hibak8196]

Like seriously, seeing him unexpectedly always makes my day!

[@punkinholler]

You seem like a delightful person :D

[@SyntheticRose]

So I love the Bon Appetite channel and Brad and Claire and everyone who works there, but it surprised me just how quickly it seemed they overtook the internet. There are whole fan communities on tumblr based on this channel and watching this video again made me realize it's bc of the authenticity it portrays. It's fun seeing Brad and Claire interact, or watch Chris smell his food before taking a tiny bite, it all seems so authentic. It was like suddenly I memorized the names of all these people and knew their idiosyncrasies. It lowkey feels like watching an episode of Friends but with a larger cast that loves to cook. Even the editor of the videos is a character too with the way they always insert commentary into Brad's videos. I just think it's interesting that what was essentially an unknown cooking channel has become a sort of "household internet" name all thanks to the authenticity they portray. It kind of speaks to the need for an emotional connection to be made in order for people to get invested.

[@MissPoplarLeaf]

Yes! Bon Appetit is the first thing I thought of when she started talking about cake channels and talking to the cameraman. Also got me thinking about the other channels I watch...

[@MiloKuroshiro]

You can find some editorials about it. They started doing "Hands and Pans" videos, but changed for a more structured format trying to create personality and interaction between the workers in an almost sitcom.

[@nozzwald]

I think BA does it in such a natural way though; it highlights the charisma of the editors in ways that other channels try to but cannot reach. It just shows that there has to be charisma there and it’s hard to fake. It’s also super smart of them to move to this style of content; being a print magazine today it’s incredibly smart to increase engagement through youtube content. I now subscribe to the magazine because of their content! There are several video channels (Tasty comes to mind in my opinion) where the authenticity is a liiiiiiittle forced, or rather the format the authenticity is presented in feels a bit more formulaic to me. But yes hard agree. The key to it all is emotional connection.

[@lf546]

Although I agree that BA makes it seem really non-scripted and natural, it would be naive of us to think that they're not characters of some sort. Of course, there would be a part of that which represents their truthful reactions, but there are certainly some "directed/induced" actions. Meanwhile, a whole culture of racism and sketchy casting practices (like not paying BIPOC for their appearances in the show) unveils as the crisis goes on. Rapoport is gone (thankfully) and Conde Nast will have to restructure a lot of decisions they've made throughout the time until they can exploit the host's personalities again.

[@SyntheticRose]

Luciano Fenich yea I agree with the directed actions thing, for example Claire always begins her gourmet makes episodes in the exact same way. Also the fact that it seems like there’s only ever the same 4-5 ppl in the background of the test kitchen probably means that they are told to be there since the audience is used to seeing reactions or hearing comments from them. All of the authenticity and charisma is probably what made the “tearing down of the curtain” especially painful for some viewers. It was certainly a shock but that authenticity that was built into BA also led to this expectation that it would be fixed. If the same thing happened to some publication ppl don’t care about then there wouldn’t have been such a large outcry for immediate change/improvement. I think that means that authenticity = accountability. For ex, many companies have committed major crimes, for ex: using child labor. But ppl hear about it, demand change, the company promises to do so, the public forgets, then years later they are caught doing the same thing. Maybe if there was a human face to which the public could become emotionally attached to, we would start to expect more from them and demand permanent change rather than be satisfied with platitudes. Then again the situation with BA hasn’t finished playing out so we’ll have to wait and see if emotional attachment makes a big enough difference.

[@Cantrona]

I stopped watching How to Cake It because all the calls to action were seriously bothering me and the format got too repetitive for me. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed, thanks for this breakdown!

[@DeathnoteBB]

Cantrona I never watched her channel but I used to subscribe to Nintendo Power magazine. Before they cancelled it, by the end I swear it felt like half their magazine was ads.

[@Rocketboy1313]

I really like the slide between tones and presentation in this video. The movement between the noir, the radio interview style with Hank, and the VHS, it gives this a pace all its own and I noticed that it was mentally waking me up. Excellent stuff.

[@ChronoGamerOne]

29:39 "You're the good ones" --- okay, that delivery was chilling but in a good way.

Hey we have the same profile picture but mine is cooler.

[@ChronoGamerOne]

@ Hey, nice look! I can't deny yours is cooler. Also, being the largest planet, we can't say that smoking stunted its growth.

[@liquidslow]

@@ChronoGamerOne Lol You're both losing that freaking red giant pimp

[@brownishblue]

@@liquidslow I am glad they are getting good acne treatment to get rid of it lol

[@Thomas_Deering_King]

70 years ago: "The most important thing in acting is honesty. If you can fake that, you've got it made." --- Comedian George Burns

[@eviesandston4273]

This was exactly what I was thinking when I watched this video; nice call.

[@Quill-Cat]

I wouldn't call George Burns an actor.

[@kendelmurrant4279]

Technically, this video is 36 minutes, but it took my husband and I about an hour to watch it because I kept pausing the video to discuss the contents. A very fun and discussion-provoking video! Thank you, Lindsay!

[@bubblebubbleblip]

My husband and I do the same. It's so hard not to with her videos! so much to think about. :)

[@jmalmsten]

KZbinrs and their fans reminds me a lot of what I hear about the Idol Industry in Japan. These kids who are stage managed 24/7 with the promise of fame and fortune as long as they don't reveal to the public that they are... Uhm... Humans... With relationships and issues... And... Sexual encounters. If they do break the facade the managers sabotage their careers and replace them with new naïve youngsters... But then again, this is a system born in turn from the american boy bands who often were (and are still) totally manufactured. Assembled using latest surveys to appeal to the masses. With the air of authentic teenage glamour. And the starlets of hollywood who also were bought and sold and managed with sham relationships to honor studio contracts demand for marketability... Holy crap one can get Steven Hyde hippie cynical real fast thinking about these things...

[@epicwaba6424]

The Idol Industry is honestly one of the most disgusting and unsettling things happening in the mainstream of a developed country.

[@Bluey306]

rando01 It's both. You're mixing up k-pop with Japan's "idol industry", although the former is not without it's inherent controversies.

[@darknight910]

Korea is arguable worst in the practice but Japan is the originator and is equally bad. A few years back Minami Minegishi of AKB48 shaved her head and made a very public statement of forgiveness and penitence for the crime of... having a boyfriend. This industry is insane and terrible and I want it to die!

[@Manas-co8wl]

Let's not go too far. I live in Korea and I know the extent those companies would go to manage their idols just to appease their fans. Just so you know, "authenticity" itself has always been traditionally less important here than it was in the west. Their images are choreographed and managed to the point where everyone knows it's manufactured. People just don't care as long as the end product is appealing and they even paint the processing as part of "hard work" no matter how unfair I'm sorry but no KZbinr is in anywhere near that level of creative confinement. And it's nothing to be proud of in the first place

[@yogoshun]

The deluded idol fanboys are ridiculous. They don't have a chance with these women and they can't accept that. When they find out that their favorite idol is dating they go crazy as if they did have even a remote chance with someone they likely never even had a conversation with.

[@lucydecker6276]

It often scares me just how deeply invested I can become in a producer. Not just their work, which would at least make some sense, but also their life, their career, their friendships, and relationships. All the stuff I have simply inferred through the 'authentic' moments in the video. In the context of Lindsay Ellis's own work, I remember genuinely feeling both overjoyed when I saw videos of her collaborating with Mara Wilson, and genuine hurt when I realised that she and Mara Wilson might not actually be close friends in real life. This hurt did not come from any evidence that they disliked each other any more than their videos provided evidence that they were friends. Instead, subconsciously, I had decided that because Ellis and Wilson appeared to be having fun in a video together that they must be friends. Not only that, but close friends. But when I read Mara Wilson's memoir and found a) no direct mentions of Ellis, and b) a single line that sort of implied that there might have been a business relationship, I felt genuinely hurt. It felt as though I had been lied to. I did not know if they were friends in real life or not, all I knew was that the version of their friendship I had created in my head was not real and that stung. I don't like that side of me. The idea that I would cling to an imagined construction of a producer's life and then get offended when it turned out to be my imagination deeply concerns me. I don't want to be that person. But even in this video, as I found myself processing all of my own experiences with this channel around what Ellis said, I found myself beaming when Hank Green appeared. 'Oh that's nice. I wonder if they are friends.' The fact that even after watching this, I latch on to an 'authentic' moment and started spinning an inference out of it is deeply troubling.

[@corneliahanimann2173]

well... I think it's calming to know that this is actually normal. you have a sense of empathy and compassion. Ellis said in a video that being critical of an artist while risking your liking for their art is just what adulthood means. you can like the idea of something just for the sake that you know what you like, and realising that that idea also has flawed sides is just something we learn to live with.

[@iandakariann]

Lucy Decker cornelia is right. You feel empathy for what you are familiar with. That's not a bad thing. It's not that different from feeling empathy for a character in a story. You cheer for the hero and feel sad when bad things happen to them. You see two characters in a show hit it off and want them to hook up. This is a positive feature of you and people. The problem isn't seeing Lindsay's character and being emphatic for it. It's when you lock the person to the character. Some KZbin's are actors. Some aren't actively being an actor. But all are only showing a part of themselves, the Affect. This is also fine. The trick is when we assume what we see is all they are, AND it becomes the demand. When you must demand that it's who they really are or forget that there is a real person, or company, behind it. When you go to Disneyland and get cheered up by Ariel smiling at you and go to your friends and say "Ariel smiled at me" that's falling into the magic of the show, and that's the point and it's a cool thing to enjoy. When you find that you can step back from it and go "yeah , that's just a worker, though it's still cool", when the magic MUST be real to you, that's when it turns unhealthy. Enjoy the show, get happy or sad, ship those KZbinrs (wait, if it's wanting two people to be friend is it FRIENDshipping?). Just know that it doesn't have to be exactly real as you see it. And if it's ok if Lindsay isn't who you think she is so long as you enjoy what she presents. Unless you believe she's Belle. Because then you'd be right. Which is why she's big on Disney and is always involved with books.

[@nicolle2126]

At the very least it's good that you're conscious of how you project at these interactions and recognized it was time to step back. I'm in the camp thinking this is a pretty human thing to do, being invested in the relationships of strangers. The only time I would think of this as terrible is when people get too invested in the reality they've made in their heads

[@TheStanishStudios]

I lot of people felt that way about Penn and Teller

[@lelnope30]

@@nicolle2126 well said!

[@grantchristopher170]

Lindsay's look after the "I don't have to worry about you guys, you're the good ones" comment is haunting, particularly in light of the recent Mask Off video. That video is the product of the hate and abuse reaching a new level, mainly on Twitter, but I think the moment in this video suggests there was plenty of vitriol going on then. I think she's also right in suggesting it has to do with gender as she comments to Hank here that being a woman speaking with confidence is read as aggressive to so many people. The world is full of some really shitty people.

[@Qthechrisman]

I’ve been following her for a while, there’s been vitriol since the NC days, since basically day one, from why I imagine is because she’s a woman with opinions

[@HalfBananaWoman]

+

[@KarishmaChanglani]

I mean its always had that tone. Remember lindsay went through the gamer gate days and has gone through a lot of online abuse. I think the Mask Off was just the worst so far because it was coming from people pretending to care about issues Lindsay clearly cares about herself.

[@ghostofdurruti]

"That's my secret, Ellis--I'm always working." --Hank Green (paraphrased)

[@momyour170]

ghostofdurruti You stole that from the Avengers.

[@8bitmagic]

Stole, lol

[@ghostofdurruti]

how dare you accuse me of such a vile act

[@momyour170]

ghostofdurruti “Why don’t you make like an apple and go away?” -Bach Fucher

[@ghostofdurruti]

I can't say I find the idea very apeeling. (im sorry. im so sorry)

[@TheSpearkan]

The following comment has been brought to you by SkillShare/NordVPN/SquareSpace/Brilliant/Dollar Shave Club/Dashlane/Audible/Hover/Blue Apron/CuriosityStream/World of Tanks/War Thunder/Raid: Shadow Legends

[@deathbyreindeer4174]

Spearka this reply has been brought to you by Best Fiends

[@RobertMorgan]

You forgot to plug Betterhelp, demonitized!!

[@semicolon.advocate]

don’t forget wix! lol

[@Oceanlinx]

You forgot seetgeek haha.

[@Highwind9999]

Don't forget ManGrate

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

This is why I've come to love video essay creators (for lack of better term). Not only am I learning to look at media in a new light, but it also feels like the person involved has an honest connection with the media. In hindsight, the whole "Angry reviewer" fad got shallow rather quickly, and very few can pull it off well. But when people are making a genuine consideration into how a piece of media works or what subtext it may convey? It shows that people actually put thought into it, which is especially valuable in a world of reactionary ideologies. Both yourself, Lindsay, and Kyle Kallgren (Formerly Oancitizen, please pardon my awful spelling) seem to be removing the need for a "character" presenting the videos. And that, to me, makes it all the more thought provoking.

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

Mystic Mind Analysis I love video essays! It really helps you to understand symbolism, the media you consume, and how it’s changed our culture as a society.

[@andrzejsugier]

Yeah, nowadays media (esp. social media) is so utterly dominated by unthinking, emotional reactions that we should consciously battle this trend, as it makes us incredibly vulnerable to manipulation. We should relearn to stop trusting angry people shouting our gut feelings back at us and take some quality time to really think about things.

[@willywitchdoctor]

Instead of a character she just has this annoying snarky tone that makes it hard to go thru her vids (which na be interesting)

[@malcomchase9777]

*"seem to be removing the need for a "character" presenting the videos."* Aaaand... you missed the point. They never "remove" the character. They just add "manufactured authenticity". This Lindsay isn't more authentic than the Nostalgia Chick. It's just a different character. But it's always a character.

[@williampan29]

that still depends on quality of the production. Video essays are by no means high quality by nature and people have already found out ways to mass produced them in quantity with clickbaits and masking zero research with editing. This is frequently seen on video game and movie essays.

[@annapitts2343]

As a stripper, I feel this so hard, unless you have worked on that stage you do not understand the very high demand of us, it seems 99% of our customers seem to just think we are there for the free drinks it's not a job that pays our bills

[@uppercut147]

As a lesbian who likes strip clubs and is supportive of sex work generally, my mind has always been blown by how much of an art strippers and sex workers have made of emotional labor. They like, set the gold standard for making complete strangers feel like the most interesting person in the world and I just cannot fathom how they do it lol. Maybe part of my awe comes from being female and understanding how exhausting emotional labor is, but damn. It's also strange to me how so many people say they could never date a stripper or a sex worker, like they can't understand the difference between work/manufactured intimacy and real intimacy.

[@3Rayfire]

Immense respect for you. I grew watching old shows like Real Sex on HBO (even though I was vastly underaged), where they actually showed the behind the scenes of strippers and big events. You could tell it was hard work and skilled labor even though the ladies were making sure that it appeared fun. It's pitiful that dancers get looked down on in this society.

[@ea6102]

Agreed! I'm a primarily online sex worker who occasionally does fssw and I feel this so hard!! The whole time I just kept thinking about how all of this relates to sex work so well. We have to constantly keep up this facade that we are so sexually into our customers, even when that's the furthest thing from the truth.

[@Sarcasticron]

Now that my favorite KZbinr has quit public life (for anyone who doesn't know, Lindsay quit making videos and generally marketing her online persona due to a campaign of online abuse instigated by a completely banal tweet about some random movie nobody's seen, but carried out by a posse of women who have had it in for her for years, motivated primarily by envy of course), some of her work leading up to that has taken on a different tone. I think Lindsay DOES think her job is like sex work--it's the same kind of emotional labor, just minus the sex (which is the easy part). She just doesn't come out and say it. And she also doesn't come out and say that this emotional labor is coercive, but that's implied by the line when she says she depends upon her viewers for her livelihood. It's not quite a gun pointed at your head, but not being able to pay the bills next month just because you haven't been gracious either to death threats or marriage proposal (she gets both)...it's not NOT coercion, is what I'm saying. It's a bit like being in an abusive marriage, I suppose, when your life depends upon catering to the capricious whims of your ill-tempered husband. This video is a cry for help. It's concealed in layers of brilliant artifice, but all of this emotional labor and micro-traumas are happening TO HER. She speaks of KZbinrs as a group, and she does media criticism for a living, but she's in this group, and she wouldn't say these things if they weren't happening to her personally. So this video is either "please you guys, stop demanding that I treat you like my friends, I can't handle it" or even a response to that specific fan that she said she is afraid is going to murder her. That wasn't a joke. It was a truth concealed by a joke. What Lindsay wants you take away from this video is "THIS IS NOT ME. THIS IS MY JOB", she is actually more of the real her than she has ever before. She's revealing vulnerability and that she's not doing well, just hiding until layers of artifice. I went through actual grief when I read "Walking Away from Omelas" (less because I was sad I'd never see any more of her work that because that letter represented a complete 180 from the defiant "I'll be fine, let's make this shitstorm into a teachable moment instead" so it felt like the person I had known was already dead. She said "My life ended 9 months ago." Anyway, after viewing this, I'm more at peace about her quitting. The Daya quote was stupid, people harassing you on Twitter is stupid, but what if you're already kind of at the end of your rope? What is you're a really TALENTED KZbinr but you don't have the TEMPERAMENT for it.

[@joeycoe85]

@@SarcasticronThanks for the clarification. I hope she’s doing better now. I saw one of her really early videos when she was still affiliated with CHANNEL AWESOME and I was struck by how young EVERYONE in the video was. It was dated to about 8 years ago, IIRC, but I think it was originally posted to KZbin way back in ‘07. NOSTALGIA CRITIC (Doug Wilson and Malcomb Ray were in it). While it’s sad to know she’s done with it, I COMPLETELY understand her decision. She was never very comfortable doing this.

[@jeetjoshi6669]

This is a bit too meta, I dont know who to trust anymore

[@Trixtah]

That's the point. You can't "trust" any media in an absolute sense. It's about engaging your critical thinking, and I personally would rather have something like Lindsay's channel here, where she is presenting it as a job and not pretending to be a "slice of life" than some crap that's really another form of "reality TV". So no, don't trust anything absolutely. But think about the content, how accurate or useful that is, and whether the presentation is trying to imply something else, and how manipulative that might be. There's always a degree of manipulation, and that's what needs to be balanced against the content.

[@IamMissPronounced]

@@Trixtah what an awesome comment, I love the way you put that

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

I find it just the right amount of meta 😉

[@jauxro]

Just pretend acknowledge that it's kind of an artificial trust that you engage in for the sake of entertainment, I guess

[@refusingtoconform]

Bet you got it twisted, don't know who to trust. So many player-haters trying to look and sound like us.

[@brawler707]

Lindsay, I’m a relatively knew fan, but I just wanted to say that you don’t come off as combative or as a hard ass in your videos. Your statement about the perception of women who speak with confidence is absolutely true, but based on what I’ve seen from you so far (I’ve been combing through your videos thoroughly over the course of like a month) you come off as highly intelligent, and well read, and these qualities lend themselves to your cadence of confidence. Your brand is one I’ve come to vary much enjoy, as it is both entertaining, educational, and amusing. Keep doing what you do Lindsay, you’re doing great!

[@HallowqueenCrafting]

It's called customer voice in other industries. After years of answering the phones for a living in a variety of jobs, you develop a manner of speaking that you only use in that context. You could be chatting with your neighbours between calls and it sounds entirely different, but as soon as that chime goes for an incoming call, you are in customer voice.

[@perryrhinitis]

I speak in a different language altogether when I'm not interacting with clients

[@shinyumbreon696]

I had a "radio voice" when I used the CB radio at my old job. I didn't realize I was doing it, but even coworkers who were my friends didn't recognize me over the radio.

[@shoegal]

We also have a "trainer voice" where we could speak loudly enough to reach the back of the room but our normal speaking voice is low.

[@LS-mi4pg]

yeah, it's a 'customer voice', but expanded to be an entire 'customer personality'.

[@ECNewman]

When i worked at Starbucks, I totally had a phone customer voice. It disturbed even me in its cheerfulness.

[@ursulap.6722]

"You're the good ones :-|" gave me the chills and made my heart beat faster. Also, as a former call center & tech support representative, "microtraumas" perfectly describes the way my (former, thank fuck) job chipped away at my soul. It's been nine years since my last call, and I still celebrate the anniversary every year.

[@MBloke]

Former call center person here. I still have dreams/nightmares where I'm arriving late to a center that I don't know and wasn't trained for but I have to connect to my workstation asap.

[@defunctchannel942]

Lonelygirl taught me that though the internet seemed like a new free place where real people would dictate content, it was all fake just again like television. Just this time, it had the facade of seeming like a real nobody uploading something. Everything must be sold. Thanks for affirming this lesson

[@EmBookmark]

I've been watching KZbin for such a long time, but I've never understood why I continue to love engaging with the medium, even after all these years. This video really gives me a new perspective. I've never considered KZbin as something requiring deep thought or analysis, but the way Lindsay lays it out like any other form of manufactured entertainment makes me realize that the videos I've always thought of as 'just vlogs' still have the potential to be highly manufactured content. Thanks for making me think!

[@jiffylou98]

Emily Westmark I'm lonely and have no close friends or relatives, and am this closed off from the world and engaging with authenticity, cultivated as it may be, appeases my natural drive to interact with other living people and makes me feel less truly alone! Yayyyyyy!

[@CountCocofang]

The easiest way to instantly recognize highly scripted and manufactured videos are jump cuts. If you just passively watch videos you will not notice them most of the time. For some reason it feels normal and natural when it instantly cuts from one pose/sentence/act to the next simply because the shown individual is acting like there was no cut. But they are a dead giveaway that what you are actually watching a meticulously crafted product and not just some random clip/video somebody happened to do.

[@isaacleguin2171]

God, Lindsay's new content is just so good, I can't wait for every new video. I've often thought about this, both in reality TV and KZbin videos. Markiplier recently uploaded a video about something real and tragic that happened in his life - and I started to watch it and I just couldn't. I mean, I don't know Markiplier. We're not friends. Watching him talk about something so personal, as part of my daily KZbin entertainment binge, felt wrong, like I was intruding on his grief. I often find myself feeling the same sort of thing about reality TV where the contestants break down crying or KZbin videos that are like "We subjected ourselves to this wacky unpleasant experience!" (e.g., hot peppers, ice bath, etc). It makes me feel like I'm part of commodifying suffering, as if I were watching a Roman gladiatorial battle. And of course, dumping ice water on yourself or having to sew a dress out of candy wrappers (and then having someone berate you for not doing it "right") isn't the same thing as being torn to pieces by lions . . . but it makes me wonder if they're in a position to freely consent to this. Not unlike porn, in that: I believe people have a right to film themselves freezing their dicks off in an ice bath or getting boned by the "pizza man," but I always find myself wondering if they had other choices. And of course, in both cases, there are people who really do find their work fulfilling. But you can never /tell,/ and when it's something so much more personal and visceral than just pretending to be Mickey Mouse or listening to an alcoholic's life story, I feel like that distinction of consent is really important.

[@celinak5062]

Yeah don't usually watch stuff that sounds to personal, don't want to incentivise it. Facts eating spicy food or The Dom(Dominic) watching 50 shades or old angry reviews videos, definitely have a sadistic steak to them. It's just, they're adults, in a capitalistic society, so idk

[@pallasitematrix1614]

I think I know what Markiplier video you're talking about, and that's a really interesting point. The way that I see it, he made that video because he feels an obligation to his viewers. I think he talked about getting messages about how much joy, and how depression relieving, his videos can be to some people, and didn't want to just go dark for a bit while he dealt with his personal grief. And, in that way, it didn't feel like porn to me. It felt like a man making sure his audience was... going to be ok doesn't feel like the right words, but something along those lines. Maybe taking care of an obligation, because he does talk about youtube, and a perceived obligation to his audience, a lot. But I get what you mean. Like with Markiplier in particular, I wonder a lot how much "control" he has... he talks about vacation, but then keeps filming. People have talked about how much of a high stress environment it is working with him, because of how much content he feels he has to produce. Like if he wanted to, if he really needed to, could he put the camera down? And the emotional labor he does... I can't imagine what it must be like, feeling like you have to put so many people before yourself on a daily basis. And I'm pretty sure he does; I don't think he takes regular days off. KZbin is "interesting" because, I think, for a lot of content creators, part of maintaining the illusion is putting up the illusion that it isn't work. It seems like it's all done in fun; everyone's having a good time. But that can't be true. There are probably elements are fun, but there's also scripting and editing and so many elements that are just like a real job. I mean, people do this for a living. But I think that, because of that, a lot of people don't think about the ethics of it. Commodifying suffering, reasonable workloads, the expectations put on creators. It's something more and more being addressed, and I hear creators talk about it now and then, but idk. There's a lot of blurry lines.

[@Manas-co8wl]

Pain?

[@isaacleguin2171]

I'm not here to blame him for making it! It's more that I felt like I didn't have a right to watch it.

[@isaacleguin2171]

Well, yeah, pain. Everything from the relatively trivial pain of having someone denigrate you for making a shitty dress that THEY forced you to make out of shitty materials, to the very real pain that comes from outside forces (e.g., deaths, illness, breakups, other things that happen in life) and is turned into entertainment by the act of us watching it. Does that make sense?

[@AJeziorski1967]

Lindsay, I confess I'm a little taken aback by how ready I am to listen to you speaking so eloquently and in such impressive detail about stuff I never previously gave a toss about. Starting with 'Why is Cats' and the hilarious Schumacher/Phantom video ... I'm not actually a fan of any film or show I've heard you talk about, but as of now I am a fan of you. And now I also know what "diegesis" is. And because I have a bad memory for new words, also what "diagenesis" is, and that those two things are not the same. So thank you.

[@tnttiger3079]

Ok Lindsay, you can just come out and admit that you wasted waaay too much watching baking shows and you had to find a way to monetize that time

[@hannahhinners4456]

The mood of the century

[@RunicVersion244]

It's the youtube equivalent of finding a way to get your vacation stay comped.

[@coldblaze100]

This tho

[@treefingers6572]

If only I could turn my age 19 to 21 of drug use and video games into monetization. I'm 22 lol Also, I'm not sure people want to hear the story of my early life crisis badly enough to make KZbin money, sooooo... Shit. Time really is money, and achievement, and improvements, and so on. Just glad I have that shit straight in my head now!

[@agirlwithdreams15]

its like the time I filmed myself cleaning my room for my film class. two birds with one stone

[@aaronborok8398]

After having watched this, my initial reaction is: Do you need a break? Because it's totally fine if you need a break and you deserve a break if you need it.

[@Trynottoblink]

Still trying to figure out how she put out such a quality video after liquefying her brain watching hours of this stuff.

[@JamesR1986]

I don't know if this video is an indication that she needs a break. I do kind of wonder if most KZbin Stars need a break. Especially after doing this for years. The only problem is, where do you go? If your favorite full time KZbinr, decides one day, hey I'm out. Where do they go next? What transferable skills do they have that there might be some demand for?

[@helenanilsson5666]

James R I suppose that depends on what kind of youtube star they are, and what part of their youtube stuff they want a break from - but generally I believe that if someone can successfully earn money by posting videos then they are eminently employable. I mean it's a heck of a thing to put on a CV, "I am so likeable that people threw money at me when I shared my gameplay commentary".

[@meghenmatta2080]

James R so youtubers have tons of marketable skills including but not limited to: video editing software, video productions, script writing, media outreach, branding and marketing.. they could easily get a job at a company working in these areas without their face or name directly in the spotlight

[@przemysawzanko6700]

Aaron Borok So what you're saying is that you connected emotionally with the affect her KZbin persona has created for this video?

[@elhardo5862]

(an improvised) Contents! i - how to cake it : 1:35 ii - a brief history of youtube : 8:32 iii - a chat with Hank Green (1) : 12:09 iv - man about cake : 14:02 v - reality tv vs. youtube viewer understanding : 19:53 vi - a chat w Hank Green (2) : 21:44 vii - emotional labour part one : 23:16 viii - a chat w Hank Green (3) : 24:29 ix - emotional labour part two : 26:11 x - a chat w Hank Green (4) : 29:52 (xi - concluding thoughts : 32:58)

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

Thank you

[@reinette_croissant]

"We need to occupy the same physical space as human beings." I have some bad news for you, past Hank.

[@mavisavery4855]

I think the "slice of live vlog" is so loved because it's like real life, but more polished. It's quirky and exciting and perfect but not so perfect that it seems produced. It seems just achievable enough that it could happen, that the viewer could possibly live like that. Not to mention, it's reinforced by how thin the wall between viewer and content creator is, making it feel even more personal, possible, casual and close.

[@pyayaXC]

It's real in that they're representative of the viewers's thoughts and a nearly real portrayal of the creator speaking to you (except its perfect). If I may, I'd recommend Folding Idea's commentary on this topic: "Vlogs and the Hyperreal." He uses an example from on of John Green's videos (Hank's brother) "In Pursuit of Quiet." Dan and Lindsay have done some interesting collaborations too.

[@Nemo_Anom]

"All content is cultivated" is something everybody needs to remember, because it's 100% true. Movies, TV, music, social media, "reality" anything, phone calls, texts, emails, everything. Everyone keeps their true selves to themselves and manages a plethora of personas and facades that are used in different contexts. Since it's true that all content is cultivated the worries about authenticity are basically null: everybody is always 100% authentically inauthentic, which is to say, that authenticity is rather meaningless and not all it's cracked up to be.

[@cecilewriter4192]

Theo Smith the only time anyone is ever authentic is when they’re alone

[@vixxcelacea2778]

This. Being "real" is overrated so much so that companies got wind of it and now there is a plethora of marketing schemes that use it Thing is, humans do this everyday. However it's a bit different when the sell is say a good relationship to someone. When interacting with people, we sell a version of ourselves. But this sell is a equal or at least mutual exchange. A product in exchange for emotional investment is not. If you are selling your persona to get along with a person and maybe not share everything, like say with a friend or coworker, there is some emotional investment on both sides. But when it's about money, it's not an equal exchange. Especially since companies use emotional and psychological manipulation to sell inanimate objects or abstract ideas. At least in the sell of yourself in exchange for someone doing the same, it's a similar transaction. When it's a sell of not only something you've had to emotionally invest in to get an inanimate object/abstract idea (money physical or numbers on a screen) but you invest even more emotionally because the product you often want to buy has also had you invest psychologically to, on top of parting with the thing to which you used physical/emotional labor to acquire. It's far from an equal exchange and on the side of the company, they didn't have the same kind of investment, because it's not a person. It's more like a thing, making you invest to buy the things.

[@Nierez]

haha true self some people don't even know who they really are.

[@kingsizedmidget7294]

This is old but the idea you bring intrigues me and I hope you'll respond. I believe there's a line, the normal, human gritty-ness of everyday life does involve a lot of facades and essentially, putting up barriers. However, those are a result of our past and current interactions with the world and people in it, they are not usually contrived or constructed for a specific means like to get you to subscribe or buy a thing. I think it's a stretch to say that the kind of construct that is built in your head to help you deal with life is the same one that advertisers and people pushing a product also use. I also believe that whether "authenticity" is real or not it's still insulting to our intelligence to try and push obviously fake things onto a group while still specifically advertising that thing as "real" or blatantly trying to be "authentic". I think the solution is to just let things be what they are, a lot of the doctoring and editing to make things look pretty feels superfluous to me, in media and otherwise.

[@breh9243]

@@Nierez true. I'm still trying to know who I am.

[@robertbaillargeon3683]

Oh wow, I work at a mental health nonprofit speaking to people with mental health needs and that section on managing affect and emotional labor (and even becoming a more patient, thoughtful person because it's what is required of me) hits home so hard.

[@alanpennie8013]

Robert Baillargeon Anyone who works in the service sector is likely to think, Yeah that's definitely a thing

[@Takkiebos]

I know right?! In my personal life I'm quite a "sweary" guy, but from working as a nurse I learned that filtering out all the chaos and personal judgement in communication let's you make much more of an impact. It makes some people feel like you're talking down to them though, so I'm still figuring out the balance. :P

[@topherblair5073]

Adding a comment for the algorithm because holy hell, people need to come back here and see this. Lindsay, you were already dealing with shit when you made this two years ago, and I don't think anyone else could have handled what you've gone through with your level of grace and courage.

[@robertevans2949]

Thank god for you Lindsay Ellis for totally punctuating the ridiculousness. Truly a voice of sanity in the sea of annoyance.

[@anticarrrot]

Top Gear (2002-2015 version) may not be a youtube show, but it was pioneering the faux-manufactured friends-having-a-lark aesthetic long before youtube existed. For that reason I wonder how many current youtube shows copy early youtube pioneers of the format, and how many copied the same idea from older media formats.

[@testosteronic]

anticarrrot yeah, Top Gear was nice to have in the background even if you knew nothing about cars cos you could just pick up with it in the moment of a jokey segment or the like, much like a lot of KZbin content

[@PrettyPinkPeacock]

you are spot on!

[@MABlacksmith]

Top Gear (2002-2015) did do one thing that many other shows don't fully understand; there has to be real chemistry between individuals. Also, even though Jeremy, Richard, James weren't initially friends, they actually did become friends (in some may, at least).

[@joshstillcool]

Talk shows were doing this decades before Top Gear. Everyone from Letterman talking to his band leader to Regis & Kathie Lee talking to offscreen producers. Top Gear may have done it well, but it did *not* pioneer it.

[@joshstillcool]

MABlacksmith If you think no talk show ever had real chemistry predating 2002, you need to learn some television history.

[@benjaminzeledon7626]

This makes me think of a friend of mine who's ex was like scarily attached to like Markpilier videos and would spend money they could not afford to donate to his patreon. Because in her words "HE NEEDS THIS MONEY. HE NEEDS ME." Like she was a very unhinged individual and obsessed with him in such a way that she felt that only she could save him from whatever financial whatever he was dealing with and therefore needed to send him money. And I think that's really kind of the scariest part.

[@Nionivek]

The scariest part is that Markiplier doesn't have a Patreon! He does have charity livestreams... buut...

[@benjaminzeledon7626]

Nionivek Now that is terrifying! I need to follow up with him because if that's the case...who was she sending money too :|

[@Kxpuc]

Ubisoft, EA and Activision thrive on people with that behavior

[@benjaminzeledon7626]

@@user-gp5yz5yz4x well yeah, completely

[@OmegaStray]

'Markiplier's Patreon' aka her next fix

[@erikkramer5931]

Watching this with a context that Lindsay Ellis eventually left KZbin makes me view this in a whole separate way. It sounds/looks like being a KZbinr while being incredibly rewarding took a lot out of her. Lindsay whatever you’re doing now I hope that you find happiness and peace.

[@caterinagerbasi1594]

yeah she watching the dude explain that he enjoys being a youtuber as if he is explaining ancient aliens created the pyramids.

[@realisticidealst]

I can’t yet articulate it, but your interview with Hank Green really reminded me of my complex feelings regarding him. Compared to others he is totally genuine, and I’ve no doubt he sincerely believes he is. The part about not even knowing the difference between work and relaxing spoke to the emotional labor that he is clearly keeping at bay. While I’ve watched him for years, more and more I only enjoy his personal channel. I’m not even sure how I feel about his book. Essentially, I think you perfectly captured the double bind of content creators and maintaining their “brand” as a legitimate extension of themselves. Something we all struggle with in our own different ways, which are relevant to our circumstances.

[@edwardconmy1626]

Why is this lady so smart about everything? I mean it.

[@misterblueskyyy]

Edward Conmy Brain big. Do much school.

[@adorabell4253]

Because editing.

[@alexw3234]

@@adorabell4253 She is just smart and educated. She has a Masters in Film Arts she got from USC. It's not editing.

[@adorabell4253]

@@alexw3234 It is. She is undoubtedly very well educated and very intelligent. But editing makes the video seamless, takes out any umms that would happen in natural speech, takes out the pauses that happen, creates a flow and narrative that emphasize her points. It's how Lindsay creates her online persona.

[@cookiesyruplover]

I actually feel the same way when I watch her videos. I'm just a fool and in front of me is knowledge lady herself. Save me from my smooth brain, Madam!

[@katharinew4218]

The whole crew engagement thing has whats really put me off Good Mythical Morning. Its like they stuck a mic under all of their noses and said 'remember to laugh really loud and forcefully at absolutely anything'

[@spacefacey]

Big agree

[@hmjolley]

Katharine W same with some of Shane Dawson’s new videos. Even though the content is good, the ensemble cast and cameraman as a character thing makes me more aware of it as a production.

[@kueller917]

Love the ending where she's just lounging with "no" makeup but is clearly mic'd and professionally filmed from multiple angles. You notice it now.

[@tillycomedy2194]

didn't even notice!! i gotta rewatch this video when i'm more awake hahaha

[@ArielBissett]

Fantastic video 👏🏼 I’m loving the meta discussion from different arenas on KZbin and social media about he affects the platform has and how it functions. This was a really well delivered and written piece, thank you!

[@CagedxBirdx]

Ariel Bissett I was just watching one of your videos when this one popped up as a suggestion. 😂 You both are very thought provoking content creators so it makes sense. I’ll see you later but you won’t see me. 😜 .... Meant that as a joke about being a faceless viewer but it sounded stalkerish. Kbye😬

[@gabrielabtomasi]

Oh hi Ariel! Nice to see u

[@GonnaRockItJett]

Man with those very stylized bits I kept expecting Natalie to pop out from under the furniture and take over the video

[@starpasta]

OMG, that would have been a hilarious plot twist. Also, love your username! Now "Rose Tint My World" is stuck in my head. :)

[@graphitepants6522]

Lindsay should start a new series and call it “The Whole Cake”

[@mokana713]

Nothing but the cake, so help me god.

[@SusCalvin]

@@mokana713 Silently making a cake in a proper industrial kitchen.

[@cameronbradley8390]

I'd watch the whole cake

[@flyingspaghettimonster8736]

“The Whole Cake?” More like *the whole FAKE!!*

[@powerbottomboat]

*I ATE THE WHOLE CAKE*

[@whitneywilson7182]

This is definitely true for anyone who works for and in front of the public. My mom is a retired high school teacher; she minored in drama in college, and she said she used the skills she learned there as much as she used her education degree. You always have to be "on," even when you run into your students at the grocery store.

[@TracesOflnk]

Your point about emotional labour and creator burnout is something I've noticed a lot in the ASMR community. More than anywhere else on KZbin I think ASMRtists are expected to always be this nurturing, warm, kind presence with just enough personality to be memorable, way beyond just their videos. I keep seeing people leaving comments about how they're struggling in their life and how ASMR helps them cope, and I understand that they're trying to say 'thank you for helping me feel better', but I just can't stop thinking how overwhelming it must be for the creators. They're being bombarded with strangers' stories about illness and grief and just horrible, horrible things, and they're expected to reply with basically mini therapy sessions. And that's not even mentioning the mean and overly sexual comments that they pretty much have to ignore, because responding honestly and expressing their frustration wouldn't fit their 'brand'. I also feel like fans/viewers are feeling more and more entitled to creators' lives, and when creators deviate from that they're instantly demonised for it. I've been following Carrie Hope Fletcher's stuff for a couple of years, and I can't believe the horrible things people say about her online because she has to prioritise her health and her job over meeting people and is vocal about doing so. I can absolutely understand that she's getting fed up with getting the same questions and thinly-veiled accusations over and over again, but I think the people who send those questions don't get that because they don't see the hundreds of notifications, they just see the one message they sent and get frustrated that they don't get a response. It's a really interesting discussion you've brought up here, and I hope more people start talking about it honestly so we can get to a place of healthier relationships between creators and viewers!

[@QuesoCookies]

I think ASMR KZbinrs fall into an easy trap of making "10 HOURS OF GENTLE MOUTH NOISES" videos because they're easy clickbait but terribly exhausting videos to produce and which no one actually watches/listens to. Even the 20-30 minute videos are excessive, but they're catering to a fanbase that expects those kinds of things. It's the fans who are asking for things they don't actually want which leads to creators burning out trying to give it to them.

[@horplemctweenbot5259]

Oh MAN, I watch ASMR vids and I think you're totally right! D8 CAN NOT UNSEE NOW! I'm in a completely different field and medium, but for various reasons, I also kinda have to field similar personal stuff from my fanbase. I actually have been asked about doing videos, but I feel like it would be so much harder with a medium where your actual real face is shown--it seems to generate a sort of personal attachment that text or art can't match. (Though perhaps that's just me?) The ASMR calm and gentle vibe is so hard to maintain! I'm kinda amazed that the folks I follow can do it, and hope they don't. You know. Explode.

[@Zeithri]

Just think of the fat duckets of dosh ASMR creators get and then contemplate how many genuinely care for those comments and who just see it as the next step in getting YouFameTube.

[@fredgwynn8933]

I want you to have a Netflix show of these types of essays about pop culture.

[@digamejh]

Is "It's Lit!" for PBS Digital close enough?

[@UryuIshida86]

"I'm taller on the Internet." I never stopped to think about how complex such an issue could be, at least until now... even though I was well aware of the concept of "Internet personas", of course. And the issue is so complex, because it's not just about conscious choices to "manifacture authenticity", but also unconscious ones, like when you mention your cadence changing in the Q&A video while chatting with Hank Green. In a way, it's kinda like when you meet someone online first, and even after you learn stuff about their "real life self" you still tend to refer to them by using their nickname of choice, or picture them as their avatar... except on a much bigger scale, mostly because it's not a one-on-one kind of relationship, but a one-on-many, and there's an in-built imbalance of sorts: even though the fanbase of an Internet creator/celebrity might feel like they know their idol, they simply know what their idol want them to know. Internet creators are not your friends just because you subscribe to their channel and smash that like button and hit the notification belt and use their SquareSpace code for a free trial and comment on each and every of their videos or tweets. In Jenny Nicholson's latest ramble video, she mentions she doesn't feel secure in revealing where she hangs out or disclosing too much details about her real life, and that's something that scares me to death. The fact that there are people out there who are so obsessed with an Internet content creator (either because they "love" them too much or because they can't stand them just because) to effectively try to ruin their lives is frankly appalling, but it is very real (and definitely even harder if the content creator is a woman, queer and/or a PoC) and in a way linked to the perceived authenticity and genuinity that the KZbin platform offers. I follow you devotely, so of course you, Internet content creator, should hang out with me/be my friend/listen to my unsolicited and unrequested opinion/read my 50 pages essay about how Mad Max Fury Road is a threat to white cis straight masculinity. I definitely can understand Internet content creators having burnouts, feeling like quitting, losing passion in what they do. It must be an incredible stressful job exposing yourself like that, always filtering and policing everything you do and say not only in your videos but also in every action you perform on any online platform (because there's always gonna be despicable people out there ready to call you out because of a joke you made many, many years ago on Twitter and launching a smear campaign against you). And the fact that you allowed yourself to be so genuinely honest and vulnerable in this video made me respect you even more, Lindsay. I'm just a random person on the Internet, but I'm so glad I found your videos years ago and happy to see how much you've grown during this time. (And seriously, fuck fondant icing) PS: also a shoutout to Elisa in case she happens to read my comment. You rock! Can't wait for the next Vampire Review.

[@jessica_jam4386]

Dave the part you mentioned about Jenny Nicholson not wanting to mention places she hangs in real life. I think that’s just the internet for girls no matter who you are. I’m completely anonymous compared to Jenny, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable posting on Instagram for example, places I’m hanging out. There are so many weird people that follow what you do and say. I already deal with men freaking me out online and so I can’t imagine the amount of weirdos that freak out Jenny and Lindsey for that matter. People that see a few pictures of you or see a few things you post and then send you a three paragraph private message. Basically, I just always feel for people who are internet famous especially women. Cause if it’s freaky for a normie like me, it’s gotta he down right scary for anyone with a huge following.

[@UryuIshida86]

Oh, absolutely! You are 100% alright. I definitely didn't want to downplay the bad experiences women have to face online (or offline, but that's another can of worms) just because they aren't famous, or as famous as Lindsay and Jenny are.

[@jessica_jam4386]

Dave no sorry I didn’t want to make it seem like I thought you were downplaying 😅 I think I just went off on a tangent that only marginally had to do with your comment. It’s all good

[@lelnope30]

I love this comment (and a lot of the comments here in general.) I watch several genres of videos here on YT and, in most cases, discussions like these aren't the norm. There has been a lot of drama recently in the youtube beauty community for example, and it astounds me how people will plug their ears in the face of hard evidence just because they enjoy someone's videos. There are millions of people on this platform who believe their favorite creators can do no wrong, and they will insult anyone who thinks differently. I also appreciate that you can recognize that it's more difficult for marginalized groups of people on the internet. There's this black female youtuber called chescaleigh (sp?) I used to watch all of her videos and read all the comments, but I had to force myself to stop because her comments section was UNBELIEVABLY disgusting! I've seen terrible communities, but I don't know if I had ever seen the mass amount of hatred and vitriol so consistently on someone's videos. This woman has never done anything wrong on her channel. It's educational. But when I used to watch, every video had hundreds or thousands of comments saying the most awful things and it definitely outweighed the positive. That woman is incredibly brave to make videos knowing that she'll be endlessly harassed and stalked because of them.

[@Arrakiz666]

It should be noted that this really isn't a new phenomena. It's something psychologists understood for decades. But the internet has the tendency to overexaggerate all social phenomenons.

[@stevenshar1233]

Lindsay Ellis is the true critic of nostalgia. It's her analysis of the medium that makes it great, not reused punchlines.

[@amberbydreamsart5467]

the overly exaggerated black and white film era set with just a clip of you saying 'the medium is the message' is perhaps my favorite thing you've ever done and i wish academic texts were more memeable because that would be a great meme gif

[@syystomu]

Go for it, I say

[@amberbydreamsart5467]

Alas, i don't have an active account on any social media either right now.

[@zmdumpbox2340]

"I don't think I am competitive in my videos. I think it's just because I'm a woman, and just speaking with any kind of confidence feels aggressive." That burns. Great video essay, BTW, and the constant Squarespace plugging is also a really nice roast of the call-to-action. It's stuff like this that makes KZbin, for better or worse, a choice medium in our current age.

[@chrisossu2070]

Christ, this happened to me with the Super Best Friends. I wound up getting on Woolie's bad side on Twitter and legitimately felt like I had personally let him down until someone on the Best Friends subreddit reminded me that Woolie probably would forget I even existed the following day. It's kind of frightening that you can feel so easily involved in the lives of some people who for all intents and purposes are really just strangers.

[@alexc6088]

It's why Elmo still lives today, and don't you forget he's our precious little angel and celebrity toilet cat who must be protected and loved. /s No seriously though, if you only watch their LPs they are the anti-thesis to this. "Ya know what'd be a great idea? LPing some games that literally nobody cares about but Fans who are so deep in they live in it. *cough* TMS *cough*

[@spookycookies19]

Chris Chen Don’t let Woolie get you down, friend. He’s a disappointment to everyone, and liars aren’t worth your time anyway.

[@joejoe2240]

@@spookycookies19 Love your shit, Spooky. Keep doing God's work.

[@cinebst]

That same thing actually happened to me with Lindsay. I was younger and stupider, and said something rough on Twitter and she called me out for it. And I felt like shit. But as you said, I'm sure she forgot about it soon after. also it's probably a good thing you didn't really screw things up with woolie, you wouldn't want to fall into the woolie hole

[@squareinsquare2078]

I found Lindsay's channel yesterday, and I've been watching it all day and night since. This is the reason I love KZbin. Smart, informed content made by someone who's charming and witty. Now in my top 5 favourite channels.

[@RealLukeWilson]

Lindsay: "Doing things for the clicks is dumb and fabricated, albeit necessary, but I'm bored with this fact" Me: "Finally someone telling it like it is!" Me: [Clicks the like button, wants to write a comment about liking it]

[@707kat8]

... why does this video have so much hate? I genuinely enjoyed it. I didn't think anything bad about any of the youtubers she called out for being inauthentic. She didn't make villains out of anyone. She just simply commented on a trend and put a face to it. She clearly stated that her content isn't authentic either. The problem she points out is that the parts of her show (as well as the other cake show) that isn't authentic evolved naturally over time. Where the Man About Cake had those parts worked in as part of the concept from the beginning... seriously? Thank you Lindsay for making this. I enjoyed it

[@Kiruklee]

How you managed to say "You're the good ones" without busting up laughing afterwards is quite impressive.

[@MarchingGrrl]

When she said that, I felt like she had personally stabbed me in the gut. The six-second cold stare was like she twisted the knife.

[@shouheartfelt9574]

Lol

[@NoirRaven]

I think he lingering depression that comes with the "truth" of that statement helped.

[@adamtherock2008]

Man, I had such a viscerally negative reaction to that Man About Cake footage. That inauthenticity unsettles me so much. Like something out of Truman Show.

[@klaragilbert9513]

Agreed! I had never even considered listening to the audio for clues on the production. Crazy how the are all mic'd! I guess the media really is the message🥴

[@musaran2]

I felt vibes of that Black Mirror episode where life is dictated by social rating.

[@eszterkovacs779]

​@@musaran2 Oh yes, the nosedive episode! It's so interesting how this dystopian episode can relate to our everyday lives. Although social ranking isn't measured with stars we still quantify it with subscribers. So just like in that episode, we see KZbinrs glorify their social identities to increase their scores and social standing.

[@GinnyDi]

This is a very good, very thought-provoking video, and while I feel like some part of me knew all of these things before watching it, I have come away from it very seriously examining the intentionality, or lack thereof, of how I present myself as a "brand" and a "personality" online.

[@MrTomFTW]

I feel like a "KZbin cadence" is not unlike a "phone voice". I certainly have the latter, from speaking professionally on phones for years.

[@TrueRaijin]

Yeah. The "you're the good ones' moment reminds me of customer moments more than rest of life moments. Which is... Super freaking weird.

[@jimmynyarlathotep6857]

I had a ‘bartender’s voice’ when I was serving

[@adamdominguez656]

There's a lot to this observation.

[@Bobogdan258]

Is this what they meant by "white voice" in the movie Sorry To Bother You? (Of course not, it touched on so many more ideas and issues).

[@bandotaku]

I have a "teacher voice" for the same reasons.

[@walkingmap]

OK Lindsay, I've just finished binging on your authenticity, 194 minutes worth, including Pocahontas, and the brilliant Hobbit trilogy, of course I subscribed, duh. I bet I'm about as far away from your native demographic as you might imagine, recovering from an age appropriate total knee replacement. It gives me some hope for our world in and out of the internet to hear such measured commentary and criticism. Thanks, now on to "The Complex Feels of Guardians of the Galaxy 2"

[@ithemba]

This made my irrationally happy. Thank you for that.

[@treefingers6572]

Oh Jesus, I cried like a baby at her Guardians 2 video. It hit close to home on so many levels. Hope your recovery went well! From the guardians video, and the surgery.

[@Benevolence4]

Get ready, that one is a doozy...

[@niksmi22]

Oh my gosh that Guardians 2 video! She was speeeeaking to my soul it’s one of my favorites from her

[@janajaradat7054]

Ellis' point about KZbin influencers "breaking the fourth wall" in order to become more accessible and relatable to their audiences really resonated with me. Because KZbin has morphed into a titan of a platform that allows its users to profit from the content they upload. I think this creates a really competitive, almost toxic, environment as creators fight to create an "authentic" brand they can capitalize on.