Is Alicent a Villain? House of the Dragon

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

Honestly, it's VERY plausible that both Alicent and Rhaenera are more complex and sympathetic than they are portrayed in Fire and Blood. Alicent may be a Hightower but not only do the maesters hate the Targaryens, they are notoriously misogynistic.

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

Additionally, as gross as it is to consider, Otto is absolutely the kind of man who would plant his 13 year old daughter in the bed of a senile man to try and get an heir out of it. I'm not sure how bold the showrunners are going to be with their content - sure GOT was infamously sexual and sexually violent, but this scenario is so uncomfortable I don't know that they'd go for it - but talking in the realm of the books alone this theory is really plausible

[@patrickdematosribeiro1845]

@@WatashiMachineFullCycle But how would he get an heir out of it? Even if Alicent gave birth to a son, he would be a bastard and thus have no rights to the crown. Even if he was legitimized Viserys would still have the stronger claim because he is older. Besides Jahaerys would likely die before the child is old enough to defend his claim. Which lords would be willing to support the claim of a small child who would need a regent? If there was a conflict between Viserys and this child most lords and all dragon riders would side with Viserys. For this reason I consider it highly unlikely there was anything going on between Alicent and Jahaerys. All she would gain if she got pregnant would be a really bad reputation and it would be very difficult for her to marry later, because in Westeros it is deemed unacceptable for highborn women to have bastards. It makes more sense that Otto wanted her to be with Jahaerys because it gave her an opportunity to get to know Viserys.

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

@@Kushagra.j yikes

[@adbylsh2756]

@@WatashiMachineFullCycle they are obviously gonna age it up in the show but how will it work

[@GaoDaHoi]

Complex yes. Sympathetic....... That is yet to be seen.

[@GeroldGarthcia]

I see Alicent as a "pawn to player" character like Sansa. She begins her arc as her father's pawn to gaining influence over first Jaehaerys and then Viserys. Later, I think she honestly believes that she and her children will be at risk if Rhaenyra and Daemon take power, and court plotting is the only way she knows how to fight. Ultimately I think you're correct that GRRM wants the reader to root against her at first, but come to realize that she's another gray character by the end.

[@Prashant-xl1rv]

Alicent and Otto are more like Cersei & Tywin

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

That ;s not Sansa's character or story at all. You are describing Margaery

[@GeroldGarthcia]

@@frakkintoasterluvva7920 go read the pawn to player essay series

[@Bayard1503]

Why would they be in danger?? Assassinating younger brothers wasn't part of the Targaryen culture...

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

@@GeroldGarthcia Go read A Song of Ice an Fire. But you're right, I forgot that time when Alicent was a prisoner and hostage of the family that executed her dad and went on to kill her other family members. I forgot when she was engaged to the guy who executed her father and that she hated, when she was beaten and abused in public, when she wanted to run away and was planning to, was forced to marry into the family that killed her family members, when she was framed for regicide at the age 13, had to be a fugitive under false identity and rely on a creepy older guy who used to be obsessed with her mom, who kissed her against her will and tried to groom her, and that she saw murder his wife... Oh wait.. none of that ever happened. Nope. Alicent was instead always safe, surrounded and backed by her powerful family, pampered, with a good position at court, and participating in her dad's ambitious political schemes. Absolutely nothing like Sansa, but very much like Margaery Tyrell, with a dash of Cersei Alicent Hightower: From Player to Player

[@ItsEricaBeyetch]

I had a lot of sympathy for Alicient because she was used her whole life. I think she was only happy when she was still young and taking care of the old king and at the last stages of her life that's what she remembered fondly.

[@DavidLightbringer]

well said

[@ItsEricaBeyetch]

@@DavidLightbringer I see it as Viserys' obligation not to have more children if he wanted Rhaenyra to be his heir. Alicent as a mother would ofcourse want her son to be king. It's especially rich comung from Viserys, he thought he could proclaim daughters come before sons, since the only reason he is king is because the council decided male heirs come before female heirs. In that case he should have gave up his title to Rhaenys if he wanted to be consistent.

[@cooltalktalks4944]

I still sympathize with Alicent. She’s in a bad place. She HAS to protect her children. Rhaeynra in power puts her and her children in danger. There really is no choice in this matter.

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@ItsEricaBeyetch Yeah, Viserys had 4 kids (3 sons) with Alicent and yet just... didn't think this true at all

[@v1rtualnish]

I'm pretty sure everyone is a villain in the Dance of Dragons. Nice people don't tend to do these kinds of things. Gods, I miss Ned.

[@BasicLib]

He died when it was best really

[@sanlougaru149]

Yeah, Ned was a real one.

[@mandytrevino8169]

@@sanlougaru149 lol.

[@jeffreysamson5938]

Yeah

[@arthurmorgan8454]

Lol don't you miss his bastard snow? 😂 Jon snow was a bigger honorable fool/ noob than eddard

[@evilcorgi1367]

I don’t think she’s a Margery or a Cersei. I think she’s a Sansa who achieved her dream of being queen, only to slowly be disillusioned with the true ways of the world.

[@BasicLib]

hmm, fascinating point. I agree really. This video soften me so much for Alicent and honestly love for them to do this Make it far more grey than GOT Team Black all the way tho.

[@SingingSealRiana]

my thought too, it would be the most interesting, if she was a Sansa, or even a Dany

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

So you think Alicent was a naive romantic idealist who believed that the world was beautiful, was into songs and chivalry and had a huge crush on Viserys, only to get abused and mistreated and disillusioned, but develop political skills AND extraordinary empathy? Mmm, no. Alicent is nothing like Sansa. Maybe a bit like how show Sansa turns out, but nothing like book Sansa.

[@made-line7627]

@@frakkintoasterluvva7920 Good point. She was far less sheltered than the children of Ned and Cat, though considering her age at the beginning, she could also be naive, too.

[@varunchauhan8014]

@@BasicLib Even if we lose Team green!

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Alicent was villified by Rhaenyra and by fans for marrying Viserys. But she was pimped out as a child bride by her father into a life she didn't want, then used as breeding stock. Yet people act like she wanted it or was asking for it. They hardly ever think to Villify Viserys for marrying a 16-year-old, following personal desire against the good of the realm, or killing his wife because he wanted a male heir. She was recoiling in terror during the scene of s*x with Viserys and developed a skin picking disorder from stress. Both Rhaenyra and Allicent are flawed, victimized by and pitted against each other by the patriarchal society they live in. There are no good guys and no villains in this show, honestly. Just a bunch of spoiled rich people seeking after ambition, glory, or their supposed "birthright" at the expense of the peasants who they literally step on with their dragons thoughtlessly.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

***an 18 year-old, though it doesn't make things too much better.

[@KB-ug3zn]

@@lindenshepherd6085 you’re both wrong, 14 actually both the writers of the show and olivia cooke confirmed she was 14 when they married

[@enriquesanchez9016]

"following personal desire against the good of the realm", um... what do you mean by that exactly?

[@Dryhten1801]

Tbf in the books Viserys is WAY younger

[@rithornanie_]

well in book, Alicent and Viserys do love each other before the marriage, tho their haste to be married didnt tell if is it because of under her father influence or not. I think why Viserys insisted to make Rhaenyra as heir because in book he thinks that Otto Hightower wanted his own blood to sit on the throne, not for the good of people. He is a man that despise dissension. Besides, Rhaenyra was said born to be a precocious baby, and think that would make a better ruler. Maybe Viserys sees arrogance in Hightower that throws him off. What really throws me off is that the day of Viserys death, Alicent didnt even hurried to write to Rhaenyra nor rang the bell as a true queen or a mother to inform the death of the king. she even left the king in his bedchamber to be rotten whilst having a small council, suggesting that she didnt even cared about the Targaryens.

[@narcissticgoddess]

I think people (from the fandom) tend to gravitate more towards Rhaenyra for two reasons: (1) She's a member of a very famous, very powerful house, and (2) at this point of the story, she has the potential to succeed as a queen of the realm. And with the odds stacked against her, not to mention her gender, she's some sort of an underdog. And people love to root for the underdog. As a result, people are predisposed to dislike Alicent. She's the other party and potential foil to Rhaenyra's ascension to the throne. Being an outsider/non-Targaryen works to her disadvantage too in the popularity contest. And let's not forget who her father is. For most people, scheming father = scheming daughter.

[@sakaya9878]

Also she is the chosen and rightful heir.

[@evewithahalo]

after watching this video I also realize they kinda playing Alicent dirty so it is even easier to only root for Rhaenyra. Most of people can't appreciate the grayscale

[@narcissticgoddess]

@@evewithahalo Yes. Even if the show writers have tried to make Alicent seem more sympathetic by showing her as an anxious teenager, the show still leans heavily towards not only Rhaenyra but the Targaryens in general. Even Daemon is, to some extent, "likeable" (without excusing his apparent murder of Rhea Royce). But what about Alicent now? She has no true friends in court. Her father is away, and although she seems to have some of her husband's backing, Viserys is ultimately with Rhaenyra. The people backing Alicent in court (Larys, Criston) have no real loyalty towards her, just ambition or bitterness. Even her father, who wants her son to ascend to the Iron Throne, isn't doing it out of love for her OR her sons-- he's doing it because he thinks it's best for the realm. Even if she's in a position of power, Alicent is ultimately just a pawn for other people.

[@eternallyg]

@@sakaya9878 but if it starts bloodshed then it’s not worth it. I’m all for progressivism but society wasn’t ready at that time. People just love rhae cuz they want her to be Daenrys

[@janellejulianajoy]

Going into reading Fire and Blood with little knowledge of what happens I can honestly say that I disliked Alicent long before she assisted in usurping Rhaenyra's position. I find little to no redeeming qualities in book Alicent.

[@michaelshelton5488]

Not only is Alicent similar to Margaery Tyrell, but she also has parallels with Anne Boleyn, no surprise since Margaery was partially based on Anne Boleyn. Natalie Dormer even played both of them. 🤣

[@michaelshelton5488]

And Viserys obviously has parallels with both Robert and Henry VIII

[@FrakkinToasterLuvva]

Margaery is more like Jane Seymour, or a combination of the two. At least if we're talking historical characters rather than the popular perception of Anne.

[@Borderose]

@@michaelshelton5488 Nah, Viserys I is more like a George-type. He was born to a time of plenty and security, ruled over a period of plenty and security, and he wants to prove himself worthy of that legacy. He's slow to anger and doesn't hold onto grudges and loves his family. Problem is he's not Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys wasn't just smart he knew how go back it up with force and brutality. His kindness and thoughtfulness were expressions of his power--his virtues all radiated from a position of strength and will. Viserys is constantly jerked around by the forces of his era: the small council, his brother, his daughter, his first wife, his new wife, his lack of a son, his sudden influx of sons. His brother coming and going and being the mercurial golden bastard he always was. Besides, there is only one Henry VIII parallel in Targaryen history: Aegon IV.

[@DRush76]

I don't think Otto had sent Alicent to seduce King Viserys in order to have sex with him. Not while she is both a virgin and unmarried. That would end in nothing but disaster for Alicent. I believe Hightower wanted Alicent to establish some kind of emotional connection with the king, while the latter was grieving, setting up the possibility of a future marriage.

[@DavidLightbringer]

For sure, it’s not that she was supposed to sleep with him. Ultimately he’s using her as political tool just the same

[@likepocketsjingling]

It's very interesting considering Alicent after the first episode and I'm excited to see what they do with her. Agreed that I don't think Otto was planning for her to seduce Viserys at that moment but he was certainly planting the seed - when he told Alicent to "wear one of your mother's dresses," my heart fell for her a little.

[@nxg1265]

I think otto sent alicent to help him through his hard times but that will only lead to sex in no time. Otto deffo wanted his daughter to give off to the king so he knew what he was doing

[@anastasiamcfarlane5274]

In the book sure but in the show telling her to wear one of her mothers dresses...obvious seduction

[@tiffaniemcmillan209]

He said “wear one of your mothers dresses”. He pimped her out, my friend.

[@msmisery695]

I am leaning towards her being a manipulated pawn of her father's in the beginning. Once she becomes a mother, she will be motivated by her children's safety and well being. Thank you for another excellent video.

[@made-line7627]

Spot on

[@marinamuller2208]

Hmm I think this simplifies it and doesn't do justice to her character. I haven't read the book but she seems much more complex than just a mother protective of her children. Women can develop power ambitions and motivations beyond that of the protection of her children, you know. Besides, if she had only been concerned for her children's safety she wouldn't have pushed so hard for her son to be crowned king. She must have known that stealing the throne from Rhaenyra would have consequences, and that the iron throne always a very dangerous place.

[@sgshumblecrumb6046]

My understanding is that Aegon ii only wants the throne due to fear of what Rhaenerya might do to him and his siblings, so Alicient may very well be in the same boat.

[@youngveteran6368]

@Galina H. this right here ‼️👍🏽

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@marinamuller2208 I can tell. Us book readers know her for the bitch she is. Show Alicent is much different, as I really don't want Syrax to eat her ass. They are all pretty horrible, Rhaenyra included, but they have made Aegon and Daemon too villainous while neutering characters like Alicent and Aemond. Book Aegon is a drunk and cooze hound, but, his relationship with Helaena is mostly amicable. Daemon did get his side piece pregnant but Viserys sent her away to Lys and during the journey she lost the child something Daemon never forgave Viserys for. He didn't kill his first wife, he loved Laena and his twin girls and I am sure no domestic violence entered the chat, but I can't be sure of that. Daemon is a dick and borderline villain but they really upped the ante on his fuckedupness when they didn't need to. Alicent and her father used their influence to destroy Rhaenyra's reputation for years. Alicent and Rhaenrya were not best friends as Alicent is considerably older than her. It was a tug of war between the two long before Rhaenyra had children. Aemond is a straight up psychopath. He didn't accidentally kill Luke, he did it on purpose. In the book he isn't attacked by four children as Rhaena and Baela are not present. He does however slap a three year old Joffrey when he catches him taking Vhagar. Luke and Jace fight him with wooden swords, Aemond is ten while Luke and Jace are like five and six. Luke slashes his eye out after Aemond starts to beat the shit out of Jace, savagely. And believe when I say, this is nothing compared to what Aemond does later. After reading this story it is safe to say that neither Aegon nor Rhaenyra deserved the throne. I would have preferred Jace or Daeron over both of them.

[@alb33]

In my opinion, I prefer to view the world of Westeros as grey, the GOT experience is far more fascinating that way

[@ivkica1001]

Well it is grey, just like real life. Thought that was always the point.

[@AiltonOfClawIsland]

I have a color TV! I want to see the world of westeros in all its colorful glory.

[@made-line7627]

@@AiltonOfClawIsland I think you mean "in all its colorful grey" ☠️

[@gdhuertas07]

Shades of gray and black.

[@anapaulalacerda4077]

Although I don't like her, I agree that Alicent probably didn't start out as this villainous character. Looking at what we know of her story, she was almost certainly caught up between her father's schemes and King Viserys, those two powerfull men, and was in turn used and let down by both time and time again. Otto's excessive ambition and Viserys' incompetence put her and her children in a very difficult and dangerous position, which would cause anyone to become jaded. She most certainly married Viserys with the expectation that her future son would be king, and I doubt Viserys explained to her that he had no such intention beforehand. She probably felt cheated out of a prize she believed was already in her hands, and that she believed was rightfully hers (westeros is a highly patriarchal society afterall). This is probably part of the reason why her relationship with Rhaenyra soured; she was kind to Rhaenyra at first because she believed she was only the heir temporarily, when she found out it wasn't the case, she probably started to see Rhaenyra as a threat to herself and her children (I do believe she was the first to allienate Rhaenyra, if only because of Rhaenyra's age). It's also natural for someone in that kind of position to seek to have some power of their own. And I'm inclined to think that growing up as Otto's daughter would have shaped Alicent into a person with ambition, if not necessarily a malicious person (more like someone who grew up believing she was meant for greatness, as I think she was probably told something like that growing up, like how Tywin promised young Cersei she'd marry Rhaegar and Cersei grew up with all those fantasies about her future in her head). She probably grew bitter and twisted along the way due to the difficult position she found herself in after birthing Aegon and him not becoming heir.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Great comments and I totally agree

[@made-line7627]

I feel pretty sympathetic to Alicent, to be honest. Not that I don't feel sympathetic to Rhaenyra, too. Both weren't in great positions, though it seems to me that Alicent was in a less powerful position overall.

[@adbylsh2756]

She isn’t a villain nor a bad person she is ambitious

[@anapaulalacerda4077]

I feel like neither Alicent nor Rhaenyra started out as bad people, but both of them ended up doing some pretty horrible things along the way. To me, the biggest problem is Viserys' inability to be decisive. If Viserys had taken the time to settle the law around how succession works in westeros the dance may not have happened. The biggest problem is that they had a few different precedents that contradict each other, and each side was using a different precedent to validate their claim. Viserys simply named his heir, but in such a situation, that's not going to be enough to avoid conflict. The best way to do that was to really settle the law of succession. He could've made it so children of the first marriage had precedent, for instance.

[@cassiusfelix2805]

I think you hit the nail on the head with her thinking her son would become king.

[@kellymckinney5082]

Personally, I think every character is an ahole at some point in this story. To me , though, the real villain is Otto Hightower. I think it was his ambition to elevate his daughter to queen after Queen Aemma died.

[@ltstan4460]

Knowledgeable, articulate with an interestingly fun voice to listen to. Enjoyed "Is Alicent a Villain".

[@TrueMakaveli50]

The old king mistaking Alicent for Sarah is so wholesome, he forced himself to hate her for the majority of his life, and in the end he believed she forgave him and came back to take care of him. (Or came back to seize power)

[@xPorsum]

Honestly I read a lot of comments saying they couldn't sympathize with Alicent anymore but honestly after watching the latest episode I found it easier to sympathize with her than Rhaenyra. Like not only is she in a sham marriage she just has 3 kids with some random knight that is just Walmart Cerston and from the looks of things hasn't even managed to patch things up with either Certson mor Alicent... like she is heir to the throne but it seems like she's done nothing to really help her own cause since her wedding... just basically a mess in general...

[@apieceoflife2732]

She is a much better character than Rhaenyra.People support Rhaenyra because she is albino.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

@@apieceoflife2732 Or maybe people have a harder time supporting the greens because of their disgusting misogyny? Most of the arguments against Rhaenyra are often rooted in misogyny i noticed, most people who prefer Alicent seem to admire her love of patriarchy.

[@5704521912]

I don’t understand people that choose either side honesty. Yes Rhaenyra had bastards. But whenever I hear people talking about that no one mentions the fact that her husband was gay 💀 and had multiple lovers. Alicent yes she did some awful things but only after being brain washed for years by those around her to believe that if Rhaenyra became queen she would kill her children and family. I consider myself team women for these books. And honestly screw 95% percent of the men cause they are pretty awful.

[@Troyper-lu3jz]

Misogyny... males are great. That's why lgbt is lit​@@enriquesanchez9016

[@tearsong8744]

The impending drama in HOT D between Allicent and Rhaenera is giving me historical parallels to Elizabeth the 1st and Mary Queen of Scotts. Not to mention the obvious parallels of Viserys and Henry the 8th in their ruinous quest for male heirs, and the Targaryen predilection for incest mirroring that of the ancient Egyptians.

[@thedarkestfateful]

Rhaenyra was inspired by a real life historical figure (Empress Matilda). And another fun fact, Criston Cole “the Kingmaker” must have been heavily inspired by the real-life Kingmaker Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick. Sorry for getting a little wordy here btw, I’m a history nerd. 😅 SPOILERS Also the marriage between Jaehera and Aegon III could have been inspired by the marriage between Elizabeth of York and Henry VII - the parents of King Henry VIII (tbh Robert Baratheon gives me King Henry VIII vibes, particularly coz he dies due to a hunting accident). Reason being is that House of York and the House of Lancaster - being two rival royal branches - had a series of civil wars known in history as the Wars of the Roses (which is what his entire GoT franchise is inspired by) and were eventually united through the marriage of Elizabeth of York and Henry Tudor, just as the marriage between Jaehera and Aegon III somewhat united the two rival Targaryen branches.

[@tearsong8744]

@@thedarkestfateful Yay! A fellow history nerd! I haven't read Fire and Blood so I'll have to take your word on that but as I watched this season of HotD I was absolutely getting War of the roses vibes 😄

[@davidjones272]

In regard to it seeming odd for Alicent (a noble) to be Jaeherys's chief carer when there were servants available, it's not actually far removed from reality. High ranking nobles in real life monarchic systems would commonly take apparently demeaning jobs just to have access to the king. With the English throne for instance there was a formal position: "Groom of the King's stool", a high ranking courtier would literally be there to wipe his ass.

[@phoebe8579]

exactly this!! the more intimate the task, the more private access you had with the king without distraction or eavesdroppers :)

[@DanieSBbg1983]

Groom of the stool, seriously?? Gods! 😂🤣🙈

[@kellharris2491]

This was normal. They often pushed young women to care for the elderly King's. Just look at the Bible.

[@thedarkestfateful]

Agreed, not so far fetched. GRRM’s GOT series is based on medieval European monarchy after all.

[@Ahoykatieee]

I think her scheming starts as soon as she gives birth to Aegon, regardless of her fathers plans. When she sees that Viserys has no mind to change the succession, she suggests marrying Aegon to Rhaenyra. Viserys outright rejects the match because he knows that Alicent wants her son on the iron throne. She slides right into the typical role of stepmother who antagonizes the daughter simply for the sake of power. IMO, no matter how you look at it, she’s a traitor who rebelled against the King’s chosen successor. And if Viserys was a good king that Alicent supposedly married for love, that betrayal makes her a villain in my eyes.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Those are solid arguments. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

[@jeffreysamson5938]

True. She should've stayed true to his husband's words like how argon respected his dad's words. Rhaenerya wouldn't have killed them if they followed their dad's words.

[@kaye2323]

Totally agree. Came here to say this lol. Also once Rhaenyra married Aegon, if anything happened to her, he'd now be uncontested heir. Seems pretty suspicious.

[@plutodoll]

thank youu literally all the people in the comments making excuses for her saying she was manipulated by her dad she was a pawn bla bla, alicent was just power hungry and at the end of the day a traitor, she knew rhaenyra would never hurt her children and this could’ve all been avoided if they just let rhaenyra rule

[@jeffreysamson5938]

@@plutodoll WORST of all her son did not want to rule at first and to respect his fathers wishes for rhaenerya it was alicent being manipulative that led to the whole war. she deserved to die.

[@ladylady]

THANK you for such an astute and unbiased analysis of Alicent! It's so refreshing to hear people discuss her character for the complex one that it is, rather than painting her as the wicked stepmother with Rhaenyra as the hero of the Dance/in the right. Personally, for as much as I love Alicent, I believe that the DotD is a tale with no heroes, just people.

[@derekhammond6975]

I'm sure the show will paint her in a more positive light- at least at first- like Lena Heady's Cersei. A fan favorite in the making. Also she should have a good arc. By the end shees talking about when the cats (Vhagar) away the mice will play and trying to convince a little girl to do just awful things. She becomes so nasty that the brothel queens ending is put forth. The whole time reading f&b I wanted Rhaenerya to snatch her up by the hair.

[@andilebless5533]

she is playing for power. no pawn just approaches a king on her own...even on a chessboard

[@tinafatusin8023]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 the hair and her throat , if I may add that.

[@MrImastinker]

Here from the future, you were spot on. TV Alicent starts off a pretty decent person. But boy, she's falling, and she's falling *hard.*

[@apieceoflife2732]

Like The show is not painting Rhaenyra in a victim light when she was a tyrant and hated by the people.

[@ElijahMarck]

Alicent convinced her son to take the crown with the argument that Rhaenera would kill them once she got the chance, but when Alicent and her children and grandchildren were captives nothing happened to them, even Aegon was like naw that’s my sisters throne at first, blood and cheese only happened in response to Rhae losing her son, which was Daemons plan not hers, she even calls her sister, sister, instead of half like she does her brothers so I’m betting that she had a good relationship with her sister which was strained by the hightower influence

[@SingingSealRiana]

they could not know that though and otto hightower sure as hell thought only the worst of daemon and hence Rhaenera. The fear was not entirely unfounded and otto, the powerhungry goblin fanned that flame undoubtetly. Lots of stupid things in asoiaf happened out of worry for a child or sibling. Panik is not rational so I do not feel comfortable blaming that on her.

[@asherujudo7383]

@@SingingSealRiana I completely disagree. Bringing the Hightowers into the fold and placing them so close to power is what led to the downfall of House Targaryen and the end of the dragons. But I still blame the Targaryens for everything that happened to them. If Viserys hadn't remarried, and if Rhaenyra had just had legitimate children with her husband, the chaos would have been avoided. But Viserys was a fool and so was Rhaenyra.

[@TheJulietxo]

@@asherujudo7383 Her husband was gay, is it really her fault she was forced to marry him? Anyone else could have given her legitimate children

[@asherujudo7383]

@@TheJulietxo Do you know how many gay men have natural born children? A lot. The world is littered with stories of men with families who lead secret lives on the "down low". Being gay doesn't mean you can't have sex with a woman. It means you prefer not to. The thing about spouses spitefully refusing to bear their husband's children is just something George RR Martin likes to use to invent unnecessary drama. Like Cersei refusing to have Robert's children. It's completely stupid. So yes, there are gay men out there, but surely, when you are married to a future queen and your entire family is counting on you to further your family name, you can get it up to do your duty.

[@pitakon]

Targaryens are notably unstable. Never ever discount that fact.

[@mellowenglishgal]

After watching Episode 1 of HotD, I have to say I adore Emily Carey’s portrayal of young Alicent as a highly anxious young woman shoved into positions she’s not comfortable with.

[@edwinbrown7179]

I never could muster all to much sympathy for Cersei because of her murder of Malara which was before she was even married. And of course the women she sent to Qyburn and all of the other obvious things she has done. Once I got into her chapters more I wouldn't call it sympathy but I understood more of why she was the way she ended up. And I think that for Rhaenryra and Alicent it would be dope to see both perspectives and get the whole situation as much as possible.

[@Prashant-xl1rv]

I hope u know that book & show Cersei are totally different people

[@edwinbrown7179]

@@Prashant-xl1rv I don't really see it that way though. Even if its an adaptation I can still hold the character accountable. I read the novels before I ever touched the show therefore that's who Cersei is to me. I understand the show interpretation is different that doesn't change that Cersei is still a reprehensible character regardless of the show or books. That being said I enjoy the book version better as the show version was basically Lena Headey cosplaying as Cersei.

[@cooltalktalks4944]

Once Alicent married Viserys, she was stuck in a bad place. She has to act the way she’s acting because Rhaeynra or Rhaeynra’s people could have Alicent and her children killed. She has no choice.

[@MariaVosa]

I'm also really hoping they allow Alicent to become complex and even tragic character - especially some sort of progression from a young girl being partly used as a pawn by her father, to a mother and dowager queen fearingfor her children and herself. I'm more Team Black regardless, but I think you made a very good case for the fact that there is no clear Right and Wrong here. As much as I like Rhaenyra, Viserys should not have remarried if he wanted to keep her as his heir. He doomed both women and their children with his self indulgence and cowardice. I don't think a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon would have worked either, both would have been in contention over the throne and one would probably have killed the other in the end - or started a civil war...

[@millibillionth]

I appreciate the alternative perspective - it is a good reminder of just how much we end up assuming by our own biases or end up being led to by whomever wrote the account.

[@shadowbooster-realm]

I'm so happy seeing how far this channel has come. Excellent work, as always.

[@cinnabartab1719]

Would love to see more HOTD character studies like this before the show comes out. A compelling villian is what makes storied great in my opinion. Black and white fantasy series tend to get old and boring after awhile.

[@Playlistmastermind]

To me, she is the villain. However, I can appreciate that her choices make sense in her circumstances and she was doing what many women would have done for their families. Since she was Rhaenyra’s friend, she betrayed her from the moment she obeyed her father in visiting Visaerys but we can understand that it was her duty to listen to her father and seek a higher position. Later on, she placed her son on the throne, further betraying both the crown and her former friend but we understand that she wanted to protect her son and give him all that she could because power meant he was safe. Whilst she is a villain in Rhaenyra’s story (and rightfully so), she is a villain with understandable reasons for her villainy.

[@kriputyub7566]

That’s the beauty of great story telling people are not black and white.

[@DewarSon]

Well said!... Understandable. Although unwarranted. And entirely unforgiveable.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

she didnt betray anyone so far. she was being forced by her father.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

@@DewarSon of course its warranted and forgivable if shes being FUCKING FORCED to do it

[@BleedingGrafitti]

@@DewarSon Cersie: I understand...

[@tannieteezer]

I guess she’s like Cersei in the sense that in trying to ‘protect’ her children, she unintentionally caused their deaths. Quite ironic. I think maybe it started out as motherly instinct, but somewhere along the way it turned into ambition. Although i really don’t see how placing your children directly in the midst of a messy civil war is at all ‘protecting’ maybe that’s the only way she knew how

[@staceyburke4285]

Lovin this video and your insights. My first read of F&B left me thinking Alicent was definitely a villain. After my third read I felt sympathy for her and the position she was put into, and the conflict she must have felt regarding her sons. As the Queen and a mother, of course she would prefer to her 1st born to be named as hire to the throne. Seeing Rhaenyra’s children looking nothing like their “father” probably made her absolutely furious and may have shaped her decision to partake in the coup. Her biggest mistake, in my opinion, was underestimating the lengths Rhaenyra (and Dameon) was willing to go to claim the iron throne. Man I hope the writers do good by this book! Thanks for another amazing analysis!

[@dominiqueodom3099]

Does anyone else think that Criston Cole was a Hightower Agent,considering how he became Alicent Hightower's sworn sword after the fallout of whatever relationship he had With Rhaenrya? I truly would be dissapointed if Alicent Hightower is potrayed as a Victim in this conflict. In some ways it would make sense for her to be used as a pawn for Otto Hightower's own personal Advancement,but so many of her actions ended up slighting/offending/or causing Conflict. Hell,she did help manipulate her own son Aegon into taking the Thrown from Rhaenrya when he was fine with her as the Heir. would really appreciate it if you could do a Breakdown on the Character Relationship of Ser Criston Cole and Rhaenrya Targeyean.

[@virgoqueen8950]

SHE WAS A VICTIM AND THAN SHE BECAME DELUSIONAL BECAUSE HER FATHER WHO IS THE REAL VILLIAN MADE HER PARANOID

[@Jocelyn_Jade]

It’s nice to see House Hightower being strongly represented in a series.

[@joshcampelo]

I cheered to every single time you rose up to show the “queen” on your shirt. Also, I loved they went with the most interesting approach to Queen Alicent on the show. If you think about it, even at the time you published this (awesome) analysis of all the characters possibilities, the casting of Olivia Cooke as Alicent pointed to that direction. She’s known for playing very human and sympathetic characters (apart from that one movie with Anya Taylor-Joy). She’s a sympathetic person. She brings an incubated sadness to the show’s Alicent that I really dig. Great vid, bud. Can’t wait for the reading of Fire and Blood you have scheduled for Sunday. Cheers from Rio. 🇧🇷

[@DavidLightbringer]

thank you and yeah I was happy with how this held up

[@faze_buendia9514]

I definitely think Otto and Alicent were the antagonists of this whole debacle; the Hightowers are the kind of family that would see the country burn if they couldn't have it for themselves. Rhaenyra was always my favorite character in the ASOIAF universe; she was definitely no angel but she did get screwed over pretty good and in my humble opinion it was all Alicent Hightower, her dad Otto, and Criston Cole's idea. At the very least Cole was the devil on Aegon's shoulder, stoking the flames, in addition to being their most loyal helper. The Hightowers are one of the Great Houses, they're born playing the game, I bet Otto was mentally compiling a list of possible suitors the day the Maester told him it was a girl. She was probably taught, like Margerie, by her female family members what's expected of her as a Hightower. The highest seat for a woman is at the King's side as his Queen so, of course, she'd want to be good at manipulation and the politics of court. Tywin was determined to wed Cersei to Loras despite it being absolutely ridiculous and despite how Cersei feels, for the good of the family. You know the Hightowers felt likewise. Otto most definitely wanted a Hightower-Targaryen ruler on the throne, and I bet he's actively helping the maesters rid the world of dragons, if he can't have one no one can.

[@apieceoflife2732]

You are joking right?Targaryens are the lunatics who burn people with no concern.Remember how Rhaenys killed Thousand innocents to do her power show in episode 9?Yeah.People hated Targs but had to bear then due to their dragons.

[@ZombicidalMadMom81]

@@apieceoflife2732 1st off, Rhaenys didn't kill 'thousands', if any she maybe killed hundreds, also she didn't kill anyone w/ fire, more like rubble from falling rocks. Also, if she wanted to 'show her power' she could've burned the whole royal family right there and taken the Iron Throne for herself. Secondly, you have to take the time period into consideration. This period in Westeros history is the peak of Targaryen power; they've kept the peace, helped the smallfolk, and the realm has been flourishing under their united rule for over a hundred years. No one at the time thought they were lunatics YET, only scary, intimidating, and otherworldly; but the majority of the realm still listened to and respected the Royal Family. The Hightowers went against the King's proclamation and crowned Aegon instead of Rhaenyra and they did it hastily because they knew they were in the wrong. The info given in the show is only half the story, you have to take the source material into consideration as well.

[@frakkintoasterluvva7920]

What I don't understand and that I would want to ask George is, how would Rhaenyra having illegitimate children or even trying to pass them as legitimate be "high treason"? What is the legal basis? It;s not like she was trying to make children not descended from the king be his heirs, They were Viserys' grandchildren , and she was his heir, the line passed through her. Is there something that, hypothetically, could stop Viserys from hypothetically legitimizing them if she had hypothetically admitted they were bastards?

[@DavidLightbringer]

That is unclear, and I have wondered that. I think the issue is that because everyone already understands that as treason, it would be like changing the rules after you got caught. It would undermine her claim so significantly that it probably wasn’t an option. As far as treason, I think it’s basically the normal issue of “bastards” not being allowed to inherit + the fact that we’re dealing with the throne. Also a factor is that it undermines the alliance with Velaryon completely.

[@tiffaniemcmillan209]

Bastards cannot hold titles. They’re not supposed to.

[@neilbodwell9172]

Otto Hightower was definitely using his daughter to ingratiate himself with Jahearys and his potential heirs, but anything beyond a caregiver for the "Old King" is a stretch. Jahearys I seemed like a pretty decent man so him in his late 60's horsing around with a teenager...that just seems out of character.

[@DavidLightbringer]

It does yes, it has to be addressed because Mushroom accuses it, and because Otto was creating the situation for it to happen and would have used it to his advantage

[@neilbodwell9172]

@@DavidLightbringer no argument there that it needs to be addressed. I just really see that as a stretch and a rather large one at that. How much Alicent was in on it well I'd say likely quite a bit.

[@Liilliithh]

​​@@DavidLightbringer here's a thought: there's actually no problem with Rhaenyra's kids being bastards. See, the reason why a queen's infidelity was high treason in the middle ages is the doubt in regards to the paternity of the king's heir, given that in that case, the real would go to someone that's not "the king's blood". However, Rhaenyra has no doubt that her kids are hers and the ruling house is not house Velaryon; the kids don't expect to inherit the realm from Laenor. Besides, unlike the middle ages, the right to legitimate kids belongs not to the church, but to the ruler, so she would have been able to legitimate her sons. Actually, Aegon the 4th did it and nobody complained, in fact, half the realm gathered around a legitimized bastard to uphold the Targaryen dinasty in favour of the Blackfyres. That said, i believe quite clear that the problem with Rhaenyra was just the having a uterus.

[@matthewtait2939]

@@Liilliithh daemon blackfyre had 2 targ parents though. Also understand your point about the situation of women cheating being high treason because usually it meant to ruling houses didn’t have a real heir but still think rhaenyra fucked over the whole realm by doing what she did because people were always going to try and exploit her children not being legitimate to their own gains which could always cause civil war. And imagine how many women were maimed and raped during the civil war. Like we see in the asoiaf books. So I don’t really like the idea that rhaenyra is a feminist icon. Also don’t really u sweat and why the velaryons and rhaenys sided with her when she cuckolded her son

[@Liilliithh]

@@matthewtait2939 well, their son was gay anyway, and Rhaenyra gave them a chance to stick it to the Hightowers for getting Viserys to set Laena aside. And no, Rhaenyra is a victim of patriarchy, but she's not a feminist icon by any means. Note: Rhaenyra's kids weren't targaryen on the both sides, but her brother's weren't either; yes, he married his sister, but they were both children of a Hightower, while Rhaenyra's mom was in fact a Targaryen. So...

[@jjs1300000]

I think Alicent is a pawn used by her father, and I think Alicent and Rhaenyra are both sympathetic characters but Rhaenyra had the rightful claim.

[@philosophynerdlady]

I love it that you take a nuanced view! Thanks for the video.

[@trumanberlin3522]

Love waking up to another new LML video! Dubs in 6. Thanks for the hard work.

[@johnmorris1009]

After watching the first nine episodes of HOTD, I'd say she's not a villain yet. She looks after her own children and her own interests, can be ruthless, but also compassionate. Her father is far more of a villain; More the Tywin of the family. Cold and calculating, capable of anything and with few morals. So far Larys Strong has been the most evil and darkest villain we've seen, but I've a feeling Aemund may soon take that crown (and the crown).

[@channelrandom2225]

She’s a fusion of Cersei and Margery, but she’s not a clear cut character who can labeled easily She shares Parallels with Cersei and Margery but also is her own character asoiaf as a whole is about morally questionable people but liking a character does not mean you have to agree with their actions

[@SingingSealRiana]

she could be a sansa though

[@lizardbreathh]

Ooh happy Wednesday! Thx for another great video to watch!

[@arvaakuka8568]

Would be a good addition by the show to make young Alicent and Rhaenyra sort of childhood friends. Maybe they bond over their mutually ambitious personalities and they both dream of being a queen. Then as they grow up they realise their ambitions turn them into rivals.

[@lekeshabenson8055]

Honestly, I think the reason he never named Aagon is because he believed Rhaenaer to be the better leader. It could truly be that simple.

[@Mink-yu8nu]

This why I love this channel! A combination of in depth A.S.O.I.A.F lore and 90's hip hop cuts!

[@valentinli332]

I think you were too harsh on King Viserys, as if he was the key one at fault for the civil war. He seemingly tried everything he can to keep peace between the factions and clearly named (and demanded fealty to) a successor. All this scheming and "plants" were already happening well before he even took the throne. The fact that his reign seemed to have been a good one speaks much more than civil war afterwards, which was caused by multiple decisions made by multiple people other than the King.

[@andrzejkopalnia]

The new setup is really slick and the shirt easter egg again on point! PS: upvote the video, people!

[@thecopperbroom3657]

Why is everyone making excuses for Alicent? If she'd had more of a backbone, none of this would ever have happened... She went along with her father. even tho she was the Queen? I call bullshite on that... She was as much the problem as her father was.

[@DavidLightbringer]

It’s called “a thought experiment”. And who’s everyone?

[@thecopperbroom3657]

@@DavidLightbringer I'm not trying to argue with you about it... I understand, I am just giving you my thoughts on the subject and this question has come up with other youtubers covering F&I... I THINK, if Alicent had been a little stronger and more sympathetic to Rhaenerya (sp?) then the future events wouldn't have happened at all.

[@SingingSealRiana]

especialy as a 13 year old, she should have been totaly independend of her father and emancipated, sure as hell she is the only child ever taking directions of a parent or other people who hold power over her . . . the blame game there works in pretty much every direction, if daemon had not had his dickmessuring contest with otto, the later would not have had half as much possabilities to play the game there and there would have been way less opposition to Rheanys. Rheanys carrying out obvious bastards harmed her claim just as much and was self sabotage on the highest degree. She did not show even the slightest respect for the rules of the high society, but then expexted to be respected by it and benifiting from it despite everything . . . If viserys had not married alicent, there would not have been a contesting claim. with all the shit daemon pulled beforhand I find it extreamly unfair to excuse the blacks and put all the blame on alicent as if she was the only one there who ever did wrong! with how the evidance is layed out, neither side is truely villainous, for there is not a single good person involved to stand in opposition to.

[@DanieSBbg1983]

@@thecopperbroom3657 And when was Rhaenyra ever sympathetic? To anyone?? Also, not everyone is just naturally "strong". You really can't blame Alicent for that.

[@thecopperbroom3657]

@@DanieSBbg1983 Isn't that always the excuse when someone does something they shouldn't have? "I was weak, I am not as strong as you are... wah wah" Rhaenyra was also her friend, remember? But, okay she wasn't "strong" enough...

[@cassiuscoleman4624]

I find a lot of sympathy for bothy Rhaenyra and Alicent at the start of this series. Looking at the whole of the political and social set up of these high borns and the game of thrones they play, both Rhaenyra and Alicent start out as pawns in one way or another. At young ages both were highly reluctant to be involved with all the plotting and intrigue. But they were both captives of their father's positions and ambitions. Even Viserys himself was reluctant I think we can see when he was named successor by that high council meeting. He could not have wanted nor expected to be named heir but there it was and what could he possibly do about it? Turn it down? And then what? What becomes of him after that? No, he took his bitter pill and swallowed, sadly. And then from there went on to be a total milk toast and slowly let the realm slide into bloody destructive and tragic war. Unable to disentangle themselves from the scheming and plotting of the political framework that had become their lives neither had any other choice but to become embittered, rebellious and even treasonous in response to all the maneuvering, scheming and plotting of Otto Hightower and any and all those who supported a male heir succession to the throne. They were both hapless pawns who at some point purposefully or unintentionally made choices and decisions that would hurl their very lives into conflagration, defamation, turmoil and destruction. I blame neither one of them. But they both fucked up in many different ways but even those choices and decisions were unequivocally influenced by everything else going on around them. Being trapped in the web of deceit, lies, manipulations and treachery it's no wonder either of them turned out the way they did. One man's choice and that same man's stubbornness pretty much killed every major person in this part of the story. By the time it is all over NONE of them would survive. Save one, Rhaenyra's last son and of course he had to witness his mother's demise by dragon flame. Trauma so young would only begat more trauma. It's a sad, sad, very dark and tragic story.

[@ayeshabarry8365]

It’s interesting to see that she’s seen generally in green, the colour of house Tyrell.

[@gabi4248]

I feel really bad for the little girl she was, but not really for the woman she turns out to be.

[@DavidLightbringer]

It’s an interesting thing when the show gives you both huh? Netflix’s Dark did amazing things with that

[@justineharper3346]

I forgot that she suggested that Rheanyra marry Aegon. That really would have solved everything

[@alicedeligny9240]

Given the age difference, no idea how that would have ended.

[@machdude3366]

@@alicedeligny9240 There's also the fact that Aegon was a little shit turned vindictive asshole. Rhaenyra would have just killed him.

[@raf3765]

Solved how? Alicent will get what she wants and Rhaenyra who was the named heir will be replaced by Aegon if something sus happens to her which is a possibility and Viserys knows that.

[@alicedeligny9240]

I'm very curious about her. I'm more drawn towards Rhaenyra, who is at least the third potential female heir to the throne in Targaryens history (it was a strong tendency during the first Targaryen reigns - a lot of guys got killer and their daughters or sisters were left with the claim, but usurped by others later on). I'm especially indisposed towards her given that as a woman, and potentially a close companion of Rhaenyra when she was young, she'd understand the burden of being the future ruler in a world where women are mostly seen as destined to be wives and mothers, and the pawns of their fathers (I really wonder what relation she'll have with Otto). But of course Rheanyra is not looking very good on some fronts. So I only want to understand Alicent. Both her and Rhaenyra wanted to protect their kids and give them all they could. This is going to be tough to watch. Edit : I feel like marrying Rhaenyra to Aegon could have still triggered a conflict of sorts, since they could have fought over who is the ruling monarch if their enmity continued. And if the enmity continued, they could literally choose to not have children, or Rhaenyra could have an affair with Harwin still (or Daemon, for all that matters). By the time Alicent suggested they be married, she was already established as Rhaenyra's rival and on bad terms with her. There might be sort a Cersei / Margaery situation there, and we all know how bad that could get even if it in theory means that the claims are united. And like Jesus there was no putting that devil back in the box Viserys desinheriting Rhaenyra and proclaming her sons bastards leaves too many pissed off dragonriders out there, and possibly the Velaryons the crown had been trying to make reconcile with. Besides the fact that in this, Daemon would likely side with Rhaenyra. Desinheriting Rhaenyra is too late. He'd create a possibly really hostile Targaryen faction that may have nothing to lose and everything to gain in attacking the greens once they're in power, especially if he exiles her & her children.

[@alicedeligny9240]

Back 9 months later, show was...I think that the adaptation of Alicent's character was not well done. Sadly. 🥲. The show's changes make the Alicent of the show immensely different from the Alicent of the, in ways that aren't always very positive. But what I really don't like is that the show seems to play into Alicent's sense of self-righteousness a bit too much, and sometimes creates dissonances within her characterization. The main problem really is the adaptation angle ; I used to like the idea of Alicent being the same age as Rhaenyra but this kind of created a slipping slope of choices which in turn make her (and that's my opinion) a rather weak and unlikeable character (in the sense that she's not compelling, not that she's hateable like Joffrey). She is understandeable as a young girl, then as a young mother, but the show move on making her Rhaenyra's sworn ennemy and a total hypocrite who both insists upon Rhaenyra's crimes and constantly opposes her, while herself harboring real freaks with arguably worse crimes. There's something enjoyable about reading what an horrible mess Cersei Lannister is - there is little to enjoy in this adapted Alicent. She's reduced to a sufferer. Choices are taken off her hands. She does not plot the usurpation (despite kind of intending to in episode 6) because the show feels like it has the same mentality as the men who did plot the usurpation and gracefully wanted to leave her out of it : women do not intend to wrong anybody, do not sully their hands with treason (or maybe even their mind - Alicent's relation to that concept is cloudy) - you see it too with Rhaenyra who does not take part in the murder of Vaemond (it's all Daemon) in the show. Alicent is a peaceful lady who yes, hangs out with a violent murderer on a daily basis (who is in the book a most despicable human being), and initiate rumors the rumors that turn their children against each other, but you see, she would not usurp anyone. She just needs some convenient excuse and eyes constantly veiled by tears, shock, indignation, to let herself and you dear viewer, know that what she does is correct. At least that there is some reason to believe it is correct. Let's not even talk of her relationship with Aegon... On my end, they failed to make either Rhaenyra and her into their proper selves, to give us some enjoyable, enduring tension between the two. The dress off scene was notably absent... that's pretty symptomatic.

[@myong2206]

i kind of love that fire & blood isn’t a traditional novel. i’m really excited to see the characters fleshed out in the show.

[@murielquan2286]

She is another complex character. I think if I were to choose-she’d lean more towards a Margaery’ish type of personality although not totally the same. I did not like what she did, but if you were a mother like her, it’s just befitting for her to put her bloodline on the throne.

[@tapioristolainen]

is there a better feeling than seeing there's a new David Lightbringer video out and seeing your design of a coat of arms in the thumbnail

[@DavidLightbringer]

What’s that now?

[@tapioristolainen]

@@DavidLightbringer seen quite a few of your videos featuring them. couldn't be happier than seeing my coats of arms featured in a KZbin video. saw a Strong coa in a stream a while back and often the Targaryen arms (the Aegon II variation too) you show are my slightly tweaked design too.

[@Borderose]

I'm on the "strongly unlikely" side of the Jaehaerys and Alicent dodginess. Aside from Jaehaerys being the closest the Targaryen kings got to being damn near perfect, the fact that near the end of her own life she remembers not her husband, nor her father, nor her son--but the Good King is telling. Alicent clearly had fond memories of reading to him. At that point, Jaehaerys probably looked like a frail grandfather to her and being the dutiful daughter-type she also took on some of the cleaning duties. Because Jaehaerys was sick and nearing senility--and he might have wanted someone he could trust doing that for him. No doubt the daughter of a lord will be well-compensated for service rendered to their monarch. So, really. I don't think it's that questionable. Alicent wouldn't be remembering Jaehaerys as well as she did if he was some old man she had to give a handy or a blowy to. Her daughter Helaena named her twins after him. I suspect due to the stories Alicent told her about the Old King.

[@mbovb006]

Yes. But like all great villains she is incredibly complex. What I enjoy most about House of the Dragon is the writing, directing, and acting really demonstrates so much complexity for the characters. I did not feel that way about GoT. GoT season 1 felt like a cheap soap opera in all those aspects. Alicent is one of the fantastic villains where you understand her. Even feel for her. She makes choices that are decent and good at times I would not expect. However in context of story and conflict - yes she is a villain. She reminds me of those stories where you see good people turned into monsters. "The worst kind of monsters are the ones we create". Otto defiled and ruined his child in a pathetic thirst for power.

[@JustAshleyDanielle]

I think this all started when viserys made Otto his hand

[@autje1970]

Let's face it, most characters in this show will do awful things at times. Very few purely 'good' people in the story. Glad to be back after a holiday!

[@SingingSealRiana]

most of out "heros" did awful things, but knowing more of their situations, context and all, ets us make excuses for them. Quite likely the same will be true of some of the villainous dance of the dragon characters as well

[@shdhfbf412]

Definitely liking Hot D's Alicent more than i ever liked her in the books, they have given good depth to her character, yeah i know its a bit early to say but i have a good feeling her arc will be done well in the show.

[@LordGaming-cz7cl]

I mean, I dont really understand why so many people are watching the show with modern eyes. Medieval rules are different and what Otto and Alicent did was actually expected and common.

[@whitneyvilleneuve719]

Again, it’s sad that neither of these families or the valerians are big players later on in the got series timeline

[@LauraGS564]

I love Olivia as Alicent and I'm very excited for her. But I don't think I can stand her once the show starts. Yes, I know she's a victim of the problem those time period put women through, but she instigated a lot. I hope I love her as much as I do Cersei, but let's see.

[@jonwolf83]

Agreed..I remember liking her on Bates Motel. Wonderful actress

[@Ar1AnX1x]

I really liked her in Fight Club she was great as brad pitt

[@kseni_vely]

I have this exact Queen t-shirt 🙌🏻 thank you for another great video 🙌🏻

[@Sllacy]

Just wanted to pop in and say hi and thanks! Alas, I have zero creativity right now to come up with something better, but my appreciation is real nonetheless

[@DaneofHalves]

I always thought Alicent was good up until the point where Viscerys died. Then her and everyone around her mistakenly thought to crown Aegon king. And I never thought Rhaenyra was evil. Just irresponsible. Both of these idiot queens made decisions that wrecked the House of the Dragon. One who acted in fear and another who acted in selfish desire.

[@mahaSAMatman7043]

“What kind of brother steals his own sister’s birthright?” Asks Aegon. Btw like the eggs

[@morganburt2565]

what’s grr’s gripe against mothers? between these two, cersei, cat, and lysa he seems to view them as irrational and willing to cause any destruction for their children. what did he grow up with?

[@DavidLightbringer]

I mean the fathers are no better, and the culprit here is medieval society. These are high lords using their children for advancement

[@alicedeligny9240]

Seems to me it's not really seen as negative (except for Lysa but it's not so much for being a mother, at least in the books). They're not irrational. They're closer to their loved ones, they care about a different kind of "honor" than men are lead to care about.

[@SingingSealRiana]

the question is, who he does not throw under the bus. . . . Shireen is failed equaly by both parents. Davos kinda adopts her and is quite a loving father, but is hardly there for his own kinds due to his service to stannis, Roose, Aerys and Tywin are absolut nightmares of fathers, Balon aint better. . . . viserys is a nightmare of a brother, rickon and arya are murderchildren . . .

[@amsd1231]

Just as scheming lords and violent knights are the focus in the books you notice "irrational" mothers who will cause a disaster for their children because children are the only way for women to join the "game of thrones". That's the only way they are allowed to play the game in the westerosi society.

[@cassiusfelix2805]

Alicent seems like the most level headed on in this story. I'm not saying she is right throughout the story she just seems more right then the others.

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

Great video!! Was that Cypress Hill???? Love it!! So well placed! Hehehe! Damn I'm old! 😆😅🤣

[@DavidLightbringer]

i will never stop making 90s references thank you very much and yes

[@e.andersonmondett8856]

Alicent would have been a better queen than Rhaenyra. She, like Halaena, wasloved by the smalfolk, cared about the faith and didn't follow her wishes. Rhaenyra hated the poor. Dany would have hated how reckless Rhaenyra is.

[@seaspiritinme]

I really like how Fire and Blood was written as unreliable history and thus there's still mystery. But that biased anti-Targaryen lens the Maesters look through, maybe it's how a lot of people would want to see it, too, after the turmoil caused.

[@AminTheClub]

Honestly you really put into perspective how Rhaenyra did screw so much up with the strong boys being born (though I’m team black, and really like Jace) I can totally seeing team green having a lot of supporters from casual viewers when the show comes out

[@RNSesq]

Great video as always LML. I don’t want to get excited for this show … but you’re doing your best to convince me!

[@DeepikaGinger]

I’m not saying Alicent’s suggestion to marry Rhaenyra and Aegon wasn’t a possible solution, but it would have still been complicated. It would have been at least 6 years until the marriage would have been consummated, and Rhaenyra would have been 22 and Aegon would have been 12. Also, who would have been monarch and who would have been consort?

[@FrakkinToasterLuvva]

Technically both could have been both, if Westeros is like England (Mary and William)...but in this specific case, it really wouldn't work,.with their personalities and Rhaenyra's rivalry with Alicent.

[@magister343]

@@FrakkinToasterLuvva And it would be even more awkward in the new show, as they had to age Rhaenyra up.

[@Youpoorsouls]

I don't like Alicent but I did like this video. It's always nice to hear a pov different than my own. This video did make me stop and think.

[@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615]

well done sir. due to my admiration of Daemon, I say yes she is the villain and her kids crispy critter and one eye Willie can go eat mushroom farts. keep up the great work

[@DavidLightbringer]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615]

@@DavidLightbringer I know ha! I dig your channel dude. You do good things. It makes me feel good to make folks laugh. Can't way to see Sherrif King of the Step Stones Lord of Flea Bottom Dragon flying I can buy loyalty with gold and we gon get cha Targaryen. What a terrible/great character. I'm glad GRRM said that his fave crazy flame thrower with wings magic and purple eyes lolKeep up the excellent work bruddah.

[@Ashley_e]

Great vid! I appreciate it when not using overly active transitions. I get vertigo! So many YTers just overdo. On Alicent, I think she was a kind and sweet girl. Genuine.Until her father digs and pulls at her, turning her into someone she wouldn’t have been. If you studied history on Earl of Warwick and his two daughters he used as violins 🎻. It ripped lives and tore a kingdom to shreds. I envision a moment where it all hits Alicent and her deep regret is apparent. Maybe after Storms End, is the first flicker of horror in her eyes. Even her father doesn’t seem to have the Tywin stomach as the war goes on. And the devastation …. She will feel. Overcome with the realization that her life has been one long manipulation. I’d love a moment where she actually gives him up. Something. Or maybe after she realizes, she just leans in. Because it’s too late.

[@DavidLightbringer]

There are several such moments, potentially, which I feel reveals some of her character, exactly. And yes I love a good crossfade ahhhh

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

​@@DavidLightbringer notice the chain and faith symbol that both of them have on both are pawns of the faith and grey rats. I want them both to have that oh shit moment and realize that then otto begins the new game of breaking his family free of those two factions. He still a gray character so he continues the plan to destroy house targ not for the throne now but becasue he blames them for all thats befallen his family.

[@santsi7306]

I think she'll snap once her son loses an eye, and it will freak her out and how she embraces those emotions moving forward will be her trying to make d&d Tyrion like decisions in regards to rhenearya.

[@E_Stormborn]

I see Alicent as an 'Anne Boleyn' type character.. caught between her father's ambitions and her (mayhaps) love for her King/husband and duty as a mother/queen/daughter..

[@FrakkinToasterLuvva]

That sounds like Jane Seymour, rather than Anne Boleyn. Henry started chasing Anne on his own, and did that for over a yea. Jane was deliberately placed by her ambitious family to get Henry's attention, especially as Anne was unpopular and her position precarious, in a way Catherine never had seemed.

[@E_Stormborn]

@@FrakkinToasterLuvva Yes.. good point 🤔👍🏼

[@wrantheim6777]

I really hope they don't make it so easy to call someone a villain (or a hero) in the show. The dance of the dragons was a complex conflict and none of the both sides can really be called the wrong or the right side and it is the perfect setting (even better than game of thrones) to write compelling and moralically grey characters.

[@flyflybaby2723]

Alicent thinks that she is so smart with her scheme and plots but she doesn't realise that *schemes and plots are the same thing!*

[@mw8157]

I like to think about her as Anne Boleyn, I don't know why. First, because of her link with the color green. Second, being the second wife of the king whose marriage was purely based in seduction and scheming, as Anne did. In any case, Anne Boleyn was not evil or a villainess, she was just trying to defend and pursue her interests in a sexist, heteropatriarchal world with what she had. Aside from the fatal ending Anne had (which is very different to Alicent's) they share a lot of similarities, and I like to think of Rhaenyra as some sort of Mary Tudor. Pretty much that is the rivalry between Stepmother/stepdaughter I'm expecting, very Tudor like.

[@shelleyj3704]

Agree 100%! I think GRRM is definitely alluding to Anne Boleyn and her ambitious, scheming family. Anne has gotten a bad rap by (sexist?) historians who want to paint her as the ambitious conniving one, when it's entirely possible that she was the pawn of her father and uncle. It's also possible that she loved Henry and/or loved the idea of being queen, so, like Alicent, her truth is more complicated than the historians tend to present it.

[@myong2206]

@@shelleyj3704 i read somewhere that grrm based the got conflicts on the Plantagenets. not sure if this is true, but if it were it would make sense that he took further inspiration from the tudors as well.

[@Pentagathusosaurus]

A 15 year old girl helping the king to bath and dress does sound super weird but it might sound a lot less weird to Westerosi. I also don't think using her to seduce Jaeherys would have been a smart plan from Otto anyway, if there were serious rumours of anything sexual between them it would probably have done some real harm to her reputation and Otto's too, and I doubt any child from this would have been considered a serious contender for the throne unless all the legit targs had died already.

[@FrakkinToasterLuvva]

Yes. It seems to just be Mushroom's dirty imagination.

[@kellharris2491]

This was a historically accurate practice. They would send in young women to care for the Elderly monarchs. There are even references of this practice in the Bible.

[@apieceoflife2732]

She was younger than 15 that time.

[@KellieDoll28]

Why didn’t Viserys pass laws naming Rhaenyra heir like Henry VIII? Was that an option? The marriage of Rhaenyra & Aegon would have worked. I don’t see Alicent as a villain.

[@alicedeligny9240]

It's said in Fire and Blood that they didn't like each other when they were young (and Rhaenyra was much older). So I really wonder how it would have worked.

[@Ahoykatieee]

He did the same as any king who names their heir…he had all the lords swear themselves to her, the same as would happen with a male heir. It’s likely that Viserys assumed that his word was good enough because he was king…which it should have been, if his wife and hand weren’t traitors.

[@danishsyed1068]

I view her as a villain personally all she needed to do is say no put her foot down to her father and not raise her son to be king hoping that somehow her husband would change his mind after years at that point of having his daughter be the heir. She started a war because of her and her dad's ego. Frankly, I feel bad for Helena and her kids more frankly they are caught up in their family's nonsense and really underserved the shit that happens to them. Heck Rhaenrya is more sympathetic due to all heartbreak and unnecessary shit she goes through. Honestly, Aegon the 3rd gets worse lot out of all this

[@siran424]

@@danishsyed1068 But will Aegon II and Aemond really be safe, if Rheanyra had become the Queen ?

[@jessjess23brooks89]

I see Alicent eventually becoming a villain like character, but it will be a progression. All these characters do horrible things. I am of the opinion that the King had a dragon dream that told him if a child of Alicent's blood took the throne, there would be civil war and the death of dragons. Targaryens have also been picky about who breeds with who to make the future heirs, because of prophecy eventually leading where it will in the long night. I don't think he expected Alicent putting her son on the throne while he was still warm in death. Aegon usurped, fire and blood and death of the dragons did happen. But his chosen hair's son did continue the line regardless. We wouldn't have Dany or Jon if he didn't. Maybe Viserys isn't as ineffectual as everyone believes. Maybe he is split in two by prophecy.

[@andilebless5533]

lol Viserys Plum is mentioned by Dunk and Egg as being also a bastard of the unworthy king by his claim of the first night 😩😩😩😩😩😩

[@Bayard1503]

If you read the story you see that there are no true heroes and the big characters are very unlikable and often act villainous. This was always my main complaint about the Dance of the Dragons. I am sure this will change in the show, because we'll get a much more personal perspective. But if you had to choose a villain then that is obviously Alicent. She's an usurper, no question about it, the destruction to her children, her house, the dragons is her doing.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I don’t necessarily agree but I understand that view. Right now Rhaenyra and Daemon look the worst to me, with Viserys being the most incompetent

[@narcissticgoddess]

When was House Hightower destroyed? In the current ASOIAF timeline, they might not be at the forefront of the action, but House Hightower very much remains a powerful and wealthy house.

[@Bayard1503]

@@narcissticgoddessYeah, Hightowers are just fine. I meant her Targaryen line

[@mlcarey1000]

Thoroughly enjoyed your video. Helps clarify the back story & character dynamics. Thanks

[@mrcoal69]

personally, I never thought of her as a villain but rather as a victim of the politics of Westeros.

[@HumDoodle]

I think similarities can be made between Allisant Hightower as a mother and both Cersi Lanister and Catlyn Stark in that they always try to act in the best intrest of their children above all else. Despite the wars the both of them caused. But as a young woman under the influence of her father there are similarities between her and Marjorie Tyrell but also Anne Boyeln and Katherine Howard in that they were pushed into positions of power by their influential relatives at a young age.

[@cassandranightshade696]

After seeing the first two episodes and the trailers - i'm sorry but she's a villain to me. and her father is the big villain of the season - i cannot wait for him to die. i think they want us to find alicent sympathetic but i cannot - she gives me all the bad vibes.

[@Daniella040]

You are the best at analyzing house of the dragon!!! LOVE your channel🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

Before I even watch the video, I'll just say this: A villain is just the hero of the other side.

[@animallover6645]

I don't think can't rule as they can but in this time and period it made more sense of changing the succession when the boys came, by Rhaenyra is the oldest and usually that can be a big fact but I am more on Alicents thinking.

[@pheenobarbidoll2016]

Wait, I thought he died in bed and the servant who found him ran to Alicents chambers to let her know ( as they were all instructed to tell her first and no one else) then was promptly taken to the dungeons (along with everyone who knew) and she and the council kept it a secret for a week before they crowned Young Aegon, and then sent Ravens to let everyone else know? I swear thats what I read.

[@Christopher-rr5ix]

Happy for you to soon be at 50k subscribers!

[@DavidLightbringer]

So close! Thank you!

[@DewarSon]

Yes! Yes she is! An opportunistic Shark. She smelled blood in the water, and responded accordingly.