Internalized Homophobia in Lesbians: Signs, Impact, and Recovery (with Liz Tracy)

This episode offers great discussions on aversions to sex toys for fear that they are 'too gay', consistently dating long distance in order to compartmentalize one's sexuality, and living a secret double life.
Liz and Mal discuss internalized homophobia and how it creeps up, even once you are out and proud. Liz grew up in a very progressive and open-minded family in Seattle but still found herself struggling to accept her sexuality, to the point where she would date women online using a fake male profile.
Follow our guest @lizguine and please remember to subscribe, rate on Spotify, review on Apple, and share this episode with your one of your old Tumblr buddies!

[@tabitha3555]

I don’t think you understand how much I freaking love this podcast omg 😭 every listen gives me a little more courage to truly come out and be myself

[@LaLaLaLaLa8237]

Wishing you love, acceptance, warmth, and beautiful healing coming out journey. Idk your experience ш women but I just remember my first time being ш а woman and I шas, wow so this what right feels like, this what it's supposed to feel like, not that everyone gets that like in her story when she said during her first time she was in to it excited but after deeply ashamed but we figure it out and being your authentic self is such а weight lifted. Wishing you the best!

[@livewithintention1625]

She is BOLD for telling that first story with such apparent confidence that she won't get cancelled haha. I'm both shocked and impressed

[@KnijMagz]

For real cuz I had to fight the immediate her to silently judge her...but at the end of the day that is her story. She learned from her struggles and grew as a person...hopefully the people she catfished got over it lol

[@sp.2778]

it’s majorly fucked up that somebody could get cancelled for sharing their life story/truth

[@willow1698]

I mean you listen to the rest of it and you'll see why. She loves herself enough to unapologetically _be_ herself. You judge her, whatever.

[@willow1698]

@@sp.2778People nowadays think that they can judge from their ivory towers acting as though they've never made a mistake in their life. Kind of pathetic to see tbh but at least you know exactly who to avoid

[@livewithintention1625]

@@willow1698 who are you judging? I’m not judging her. I said she was bold, and she is. I am also contemplating and concerned for the damage and pain caused to the people she catfished. Being honest about it doesn’t change the fact that it’s wrong to hurt people. And noting the damage done doesn’t mean I am judging her. I am impressed with how honest she is. Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone shares them.

[@DFpleasebeavailable]

it's unbelievable how much we need these people to tell all these different but still same stories. truly, thank you for making it happen

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

thank you for listening 🫶

[@hfortenberry]

Wow! It’s crazy how much internalized homophobia she had EVEN WITH her parents always telling her it was okay to be gay. That’s so sad. I’m 56 and came out back in 1984 so I’ve been in the LGBTQ community for 40 years and it was TERRIFYING to come out back then, really bad for some people, some committed suicide and struggled with addictions and were shunned from their families and honestly a ton of people just never came out. It’s SO MUCH BETTER nowadays that I forget it’s still not easy. I wish for all the LGBTQ people to know they’re worthy of the kind of loving relationship they choose. Don’t ever think you have to be in the closet. Coming out was THE BEST decision I’ve ever made. ❤

[@whatnot6647]

The variety of stories on this podcast is insane! This is the best podcast I've encountered, hands down!

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

😭❤️

[@sulagreen5792]

"It's not Liz the butch, it's Liz and this hot girl are dating, what a hot couple." "It's almost back to misogyny, if everybody thinks that I'm hot and they want to sexualize this relationship that's more comfortable for me." I relate so much to this! I had the same internalized homophobia, I thought if I'm going to be gay, I want it to be seen as two hot girls together, I don't want to be seen as unattractive or butch. It's almost like this pressure to prove stereotypes wrong and to show society that hot girls aren't male property, they can have their own sexuality without any need for men. But then I realize that I'm still being controlled by the same misogyny that we are all brainwashed into caring about by thinking that way. It's hard to get it out of your head!

[@irinadrofa7802]

100%!🤍

[@bastetowl3258]

butch women are way hotter than women that try to appeal to the male gaze

[@peytentucker]

holy shit I never expected to see someone i know on this podcast. Liz if you see this comment we both went to EHS and played softball together. I’m out and have a girlfriend, glad we both made it out❤️

[@Leah-rb1vg]

Liz, oh my God. Thank you for speaking your truth and having no filter. I ended the episode crying so hard because I feel like you vocalized everything that I have been feeling. I’m still in the process of getting internalized homophobia out of my system. Mal, this space is what every queer person in or out of the closet needs ❤️

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

so happy this episode spoke to you🥹❤️ thank you for listening and sharing

[@RK-vz3qr]

the most relatable episode of the podcast because I'm 28 bi and I still struggle with internalized homophobia

[@movsess]

Liz’s honesty is refreshing. I also have a similar past with catfishing but i literally will take it to my grave 😅 her story is interesting. I bet her feelings of fear of coming out have been invalidated a lot given that she was brought up in a somewhat accepting environment. That couldn’t have been easy

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

yes! she did mention that it was tough because people didn’t understand why she wouldn’t just come out. so happy she’s out now and willing to share

[@haileygalbraith6260]

When I first realized I was lesbian, not bi, the biggest fear and thing I had to come to terms with was the absence of a male figure in my future. This narrative that had been so engrained in my head that I needed a man in my life to have a future was such a difficult thing to overcome. Realistically, I knew that I would be happy and capable of doing all of these things with my partner, no matter the gender. However, the idea of not having a man around when society forced women to hold men in every thought and conversation throughout all of my early years.

[@Person-zx9rb]

Wow that first story was really moving. Absolutely love this podcast and how you're showcasing all the different journeys queer women go on, makes me feel a lot less alone.

[@sam17577]

It’s so inspiring to hear her story. One aspect that resonated with me was when she implied that at one point, she thought she’d just live in heteronormativity for the rest of her life. That hit so hard because for my entire life, I’ve identified either as straight or bi. Never have I ever, even up until this point, admitted that I fully like girls. I kept saying to myself that I like guys, yet fully knowing I can’t imagine a future with them. It’s really that internalized homophobia that makes me feel this way, but I’m just not quite brave enough to admit that I’m a lesbian. So maybe one day, I’ll feel ready. I hope so, because life’s too short to not be with a woman I love. So, thank you, Liz and Mal.

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

just being able to leave this comment is a huge step and accomplishment in the journey to following your truth. be patient and loving with yourself. we’re rooting for you🫶

[@homoromoacecase97]

Hearing the struggle with self love due to your culture made me feel so seen as an Indian.

[@willow1698]

YOOOO your username (homoromoacecase) is exactly how I used to identify wtffff I swear I literally called myself that once that's WILD!

[@homoromoacecase97]

@@willow1698 That's so cool! I've never seen someone else identity with it!

[@ashvergent]

liz is so honest, her words really resonates. I've also struggled with internalized homophobia, self love and trying to fit in. thank you for sharing this🤍

[@denatora7142]

Liz is a very good story teller. What a great episode.

[@ML-uu5ik]

Ugh the part about waiting to come out to the people that aren’t supportive until after you’re fully ok with yourself…. I think that’s where I messed up. I came out to my parents soon after I got my first girlfriend (at 25) in the name of honesty and transparency and giving them all the time possible to be ok with it, but I think I’m realizing now that I did it for them, and not for me, and I needed a lot more time to just be ok with myself

[@litndexter8127]

Never heard anything sooo raw and unfiltered! Liz just made this podcast so damn real.

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

yes!!! her honesty was truly so inspiring.

[@litndexter8127]

@@MadeItOutPodcast Exactly! As an Asian I completely resonated about prioritizing family over my own reality.

[@KayBassie]

Living for other people and wanting, actually NEEDING to move away to truly come out is where I'm at. I have self love about being a lesbian, I'm just not out to my family. They are not for the gays, but I know I have to come out to them this year. I cant keep living for my parents comfortability. This conversation really has me😢😭 Gay Aunt Liz😂 This podcast has truly been a gift😊

[@kristinaernst4517]

10/10 can relate

[@PrettyVicious]

This is one of most realistic stories I’ve heard. this is most aligned with people i know and encountered in real life.

[@MilkTeaMaddie]

Thank you for creating and providing a platform to showcase queer voices.

[@andreeaadn]

The internalized homophobia concept hit me like a truck. I did not know what it was, so I googled it. I never thought of myself as having anything against gays, so I always thought "not me" and dismissed anything with the word "homophobia" in it from the beginning. As I watch more videos about it, the things I see inside. Damn. Damn. (This video hit - Kelly Minter - Internalized homophobia) I think for me at least, this goes deeper than sexuality. It happens for everything related to self-expression that I believe "is wrong". The way I dress, the way I look, the way I the way I act at social events, the way I communicate, everything that at some point was labeled "You can't do that, that is wrong".

[@KathySamsom-eb8wl]

Great interview. As a woman over 60 love seeing the pride in younger generation.

[@whitease7404]

You make my Tuesdays more enjoyable . I hate when these videos come to an end😢

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🥹 thank you for letting us be a part of your tuesday

[@kkiwi4213]

omg this episode was WILD! thanks for always bringing on such interesting people and sharing their stories with us!!

[@BrunoEdwardFrancisco]

Such an interesting story, thank you Liz for sharing! It is true that we can make life so much harder for ourselves sometimes.

[@Studshady]

Man, this podcast has been so helpful for me! I’m currently about 3 months clean from fentanyl from using for about 2 years. Obviously been trying to do some soul searching, and really doing some unpacking I’ve never done surrounding my sexuality. I’m a 26 year old lesbian and have never really sat down and thought about all the stuff you guys discuss on this show and it’s lead me to discover so much about myself the past couple days including some internal homophobia I didn’t realize I had. Thanks so much for making this! Also would love for you to get Nicole Bloomgarden on here!

[@kweenstudios9903]

I can so relate to this week’s podcast and the feelings shared that I can totally relate to! Even though my repressed sexuality came from external influences, I do feel that no matter where it came from shame will always hinder us! Courage is hard to have but I’m grateful for your honesty and this podcast that gives me life every week! ❤

[@alexispraudins3388]

I mostly listen to your podcast on Spotify but I wanted to reach out to say how grateful I am it exists. This episode especially helped me realize these thoughts I have are not just my own. I have an absolutely crazy story but in a weird way a story I think a lot of women have gone through as well. The amount of times I have put myself in situations because I "wanted" to be straight, but then immediately regrated it is so unfortunate and we shouldn't be made to feel we aren't enough. This podcast has truly helped me come out of depressive episodes, reminded me its okay to be me, and that I'm not alone, so THANK YOU.

[@Meredith_Paige]

Wow wow wow. This is my favorite episode so far. I have had several people ask me why coming out (to others outside of my immediate family) is necessary. I have tried to explain it but struggled to put words to it. Hearing this helped me a lot- so many of the thoughts I had but could not properly articulate. It truly is about self love. For future guests and topics -would love to dive into that aspect deeper. It’s hard for people who haven’t been there to understand why this is so directly tied to self-love and self acceptance. Thank you again for this wonderful podcast and insightful guests. It has been so helpful to me and my journey.❤❤❤

[@Michelle-M]

Liz - I felt so validated hearing you explain about your internet dating/catfishing and how you were feeling. I did the exact same thing. I honestly thought I was alone in that experience. Even looking back now, I have a hard time still understanding how I got to that point, but your explanation really hit home with how I felt and why I did it too. I'm sorry you had to suffer alone and take so long to gain your confidence to come out..... proud of you for making your way through it. ❤

[@mariagracia6830]

This is a combo, I can listen different stories about queer community, also practice my listening and get to know more english. Thank u so much. Xoxo from Peru.

[@JennSarracenia]

Thank you for being an impartial interviewer Mel. I don’t think I’d have been able to do it, but it was interesting.

[@abhipsahazra9741]

This is such a good podcast...im so glad i explored ur channel cz these stories make me feel seen...they are so relatable i had never even thought my experiences would be the same for someone else....ur doing an amazing job. ❤❤

[@reneegarney1726]

Love, love, you and your guests! I’m 70 years old and have been out for 40 years now. It’s so refreshing and interesting to hear these stories. Lots of changes in the last 40 years but some of the stories are still the same. Keep up the good work , I’m going to tell all of my older lesbian friends about your podcast! (P.S. I might be 70 but I’m still sexually active)

[@kylorenthehusky2584]

Get it, Girl! 🎉❤

[@clairhamill5804]

Thank you for this podcast and this episode. Very educational and enlightening and gives much to think about. May Blessings find you both this day.

[@jessbarry856]

Thank you Liz for your honesty❤

[@GayIRL]

I did the same exact unconscious catfishing thing as Liz...feels good to know I'm not the only one who did this 😢

[@evavictoria2837]

this is a SUPER IMPORTANT video, thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing all these thoughts, you have no idea how you are impacting us

[@ashthedad_7658]

my favorite episode so far!!! i felt so gravitated towards Liz!! 💞

[@moonsong08-ws1rc]

Love this podcast 💗 we need more of Liz!!

[@Ferx68]

Probably one of my favorites so far. Not even close to being out, and internalized homophobia totally resonates with the whys? I live that the guests are always so open to share their stories without filters it is so much appreciated as this stories help to feel less alone. Thanks Mal and friends!!! 🥰

[@KCs_Back]

Hell yea! Get it! Love this podcast! You’re a real one! Keep it up love 💯♥️

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🫶

[@victoriakalenskaya4341]

This is great! It helps a lot in my own healing process, so much identification.. thank you so much!

[@Ruelings]

so amazing stories! So much to be related on! Wow! Thank you for making this so everyone out there wont feel alone or an alien anymore... This is so good! When i was growing up i didnt had this kind of references or some kind of representation anywhere, so Bravo!

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Leah-rb1vg]

Omg this is the best. Thank you so much for your honestly. I feel so seen and validated. Thank you.

[@megshogie6123]

Another great episode!! You never seem to disappoint. 😊 Definitely resonated with some of what Liz was saying. Keep em coming, Mal!!

[@zanaduify]

I love this episode; incredibly healing

[@rensins08]

Its crazy how different my experience was from Liz's (I was raised by homophobic Christian parents and didn't feel shame internally but I went into the closet when they refused to accept me & even threatened to have me arrested or throw me out if I saw my gf again & we agreed we couldnt afford our own place & broke up) and yet so much of what she said STILL rang true for me! Like the act of self love for me was truly accepting myself as a lesbian, not a bi girl who had only ever willingly dated women & begrudgingly tolerated to completely disassociating during relationships with & interest from men, no a true blue lesbian who liked everything about women & only women (trans or cis 😉) and deciding that losing my entire family, which I knew was going to be the outcome, was worth it if I finally got to live honestly & for myself. Also the pipeline from not being being able to say gay out loud to wanting gay to be mentioned every time your addressed part is EXACTLY on brand for me 😂 like literally I've had servers remember my order cuz 'that blue haired black girl is back' 🤣 (&& I tip good) but then it became yeah I'm also gay so please say 'that blue haired black lesbian is back' and I felt ELATED during those interactions. Being able to have people see me for who I am completely over shadows their reaction because I'm still so happy to be choosing myself for the first time in my life & I've been out for like 2 yrs...hmm saying it out loud maybe that's not long enough for it to wear off but still I'm super happy to be out & I loved hearing Liz's story! Thank you so much for sharing!!!

[@miznikki2u]

Wow, what an interesting story. I'm happy Liz sought out therapy and was able to grow comfortable with herself and learn to love herself fully and eventually find her happy ending!

[@yn-qy7hw]

I am so moved that she had the courage to share her story

[@MP24685]

It took me a while day to wrangle up the courage to watch this, I've been out for a year as a late in lesbian and I still have some inklings of internalised homophobia, slowly going. I've just found this and now I'm going to binge, I feel so seen ❤

[@nikamarijanovic8213]

This might be the one. I don't think I've ever related to someone this much over the internet. I've watched almost every podcast and I kinda feel like I'm a part of something, unfortunately therapy is off the charts for me but this certainly helps so I just wanted to say thank you for that 💗

[@Pookieboo2]

I love how these episodes get slightly longer

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

😏

[@winec00ler]

“ compartmentalize so deeply” yeah I felt that

[@tanukierwa8885]

Can’t be more related to the part of self love . Love this inspiring episode so much ❤

[@m.eberhard5983]

I love the honesty in this podcast❤

[@cdp1253]

Love your podcast, keep inviting interesting guests like Liz 😊

[@mistrock322]

As a 45 yr old lesbian raised in a pentecostal home, ALL of this resonates with me! Thank you for the content!

[@preciousmartin1974]

I truly LOVE this pod

[@dianarogava3273]

I love your podcast so much! 😍

[@naturenut7695]

I'll never be able to look at Grandma the same way! 😂. I'll have to say she had a lot of s*** going on. But I'm happy that she was able to get through it and come out on the other side smiling. Another great podcast. Look forward to the next one. As always thanks for taking us along for the ride.

[@annaohashi8568]

As a fellow gay hapa girl this episode meant so much to me. Thank you Liz for sharing your story ❤

[@luciar8593]

Mal I love your podcast thank you so so much for your hard work it is a warm hug to the heart and personally I have found so many of these stories relatable, and found many answers and bravery that I needed. Just wanted to say thank you and to please keep going because there are many important things out of this podcast❤ love from Mexico in case you guys ever visit lly

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🫶 thank you for listening and reaching out

[@winec00ler]

I’ve never related to a guest more - thanks for this ❤

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

So glad!

[@kileybatchelor]

That story is the epitome of 2013 Tumblr

[@lxxsely]

needed this episode 💛

[@JulesLern]

So good!! ♥️ I’m also always laughing at the poems at the end of each episode 😅😂

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

real ones stay for the haikus 🫶

[@MariaLuisa-vv4ug]

Related to Liz so much. I had such a loving and supportive enviroment, that I don't even understand why I was so ashamed of this part of myself, I kinda beat myself up for wasting that time on nothing but my own hatred. I always say the person who had the biggest problem with me being gay was me, it was really complicated.

[@giuliamoscoso665]

loved this!!

[@mps2495]

Me as a lesbian in BKK and have the same age as Liz, I feel WAY SO RELATED to this, except that I haven't be brave enough to go on a date yet. but overall, so relatable, vulnerable, truthful, and inspirational video. thank you

[@bbrozz]

Things will workout! Keep going

[@azel6739]

This is also a good episode! Coz I can relate to do catfishing when I was a kid just to have a gf. haha. Also it makes sense what Liz is saying. I've been realizing some things I haven't realized about self love. Thank you for this Good episode! Love lots!

[@kathleenpinto3033]

This is the best thing that i've seem today. I was working and traying not to laught out loud.

[@Jorge_i_Norge]

I like this interview. Nice both of them.

[@helenharris9698]

Oh, I forgot to mention how I love this show. ❤

[@kigusieq]

the way i relate to everything is said on the episode, but still being in the part of my life where im scared to be seen as the "gay friend"

[@jameskennedy721]

Everybody can learn something from this honest conversation .

[@LeticiaWilfong]

So weird, I’ve never heard anyone else use Craigslist like this! Glad I wasn’t one of the only ones! I met one girl on there and she was awesome but she never came out and didn’t want to.

[@pura1]

What an introspective person. Love it!

[@ninapolishchuk1635]

this was so interesting

[@bertieborough]

So as an aside, Liz possibly knew Taylor Lautner from 'Shark boy and Lava Girl' so no shade, but Twilight came out in 2008 so Liz would have been eleven, perhaps younger. Oh and I never miss an episode of this Podcast Mal; I really do enjoy you and your guests and your insights.

[@annied3786]

i just think it’s hilarious that she had this experience but it really shows how far we came because back then these feelings didn’t feel normalized in any shape or form, whereas now, younger kids at least know that love is love and it’s okay to love someone for who they are rather than being constricted to a single gender

[@laurenhills239]

This podcast means so much to me ❤

[@someonesomehow379]

7:58 this is so real I think it’s wanting to fit in which doesn’t allow room for being different.. idk how old liz was doing this I’d assume it was like late childhood to adolescence.. because psychologically that’s when people feel like all they want to do is please the masses~ yk so yeah lol my bad I went full on therapist mode 😭 anyway as a lesbian I relate.. thank u for sharing and thank u mal for this podcast

[@emilykissell4015]

This is the podcast I know I'll need to set time aside for because it will Always make me laugh, then cry/sob, then laugh...and have to journal for a bit after. So, thanks for the free therapy I suppose lol. No, but genuinely, I really appreciate all the different stories and people this podcast has and this episode's topic of internal and external homophobia was so helpful.

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

that’s exactly how i feel after having these conversations!! thank you for listening 🫶

[@FreeCandy979]

Wow. I connected much with Liz's journey!

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Incredible story, now that is a story that really shows the power of sexuality.

[@NattyByNature-]

I absolutely hate that being gay is like an identity instead of just a part of who I am. Me being a lesbian and masculine representing introduces itself before I do 😞. If I didn’t have a strong sense of self I would think I’m trans because I’ve always wanted to be with women and just be normal instead of all the extra stuff that being a lesbian comes with

[@ElevatedHuman01]

Four minutes in so far… i relate WAY too much…

[@robinriebsomer4607]

I can tell that I am much older than you and all those you interview. I never use the word "like" so much. I would find it interesting to hear your take on " If These Walls Could Talk" or something about the history of lesbian women and our struggle for civil rights.

[@TPark-rf3lt]

2:04 this explanation is what I felt for so long... its all some people see after you come out.

[@helenharris9698]

I love Lizzy 's story. It takes us back. Her giddiness is so funny. So hope she's found that real special one. I like one right now that I can't even look at sometime. She knows I'm into her too. I can tell by how she makes me speak even though I feel like being quiet. ❤ My wish is that she'll call me, and stop being silent on the 📱.

[@aburger1557]

Love this so much. I do have a question how do you get to the point when nothing else matters. When you live in a small town that is extremely religious and anti gay. And your country recently made it illegal to be homosexual publicly. When I was in college in another country I was openly pansexual. And it felt so good. People loved me for me. But I've been home for 5 years now. And my parents know. And a handful of my friends. But to the majority of people they don't know. And I'm genuinely scared if the wrong people find out. But at the same time my mental health as been taking a toll. Cause I'm right back in the closet. And I feel like I'd never be able to get out. And if this is the rest of my life. It's just like what's the point. I'm financially dependent on my parents as I joined the family business. An since I don't really have a lot of work experience out side of this. I feel trapped. Don't know if you maybe have some advice? Cause I really could use some.

[@chack4845]

Mathilde episodes?

[@Faaaa50]

It was great 😁

[@judithfox2435]

I can’t stop laughing. My first visit to the sex store..all coming back to me.

[@Thekameriegibson]

Yes ❤

[@NattyByNature-]

A topic I don’t hear talked about often. I didn’t even know that that’s what I was doing when I said at 19 in a relationship that being with a girl is cool and all but why do we need to get married or raise kids together, we are taking it too far. Damn! Sounds absolutely stupid! I struggled for years even being a lesbian and also very religious (Christian). Thank god for growth and sense 🤣

[@HerQuest27]

The ending 😂

[@dominiquetjean965]

Forgot to get popcorn 😮

[@chack4845]

This episode leaves me speechless mouth open interested 😮

[@chack4845]

And Mathilde episode on the way right?

[@timtam39tw]

This was amazing . So raw and great 🎉😊❤