Lesbian Dating Red Flags: Avoiding Narcissists (with Alyssa Nicole)

This week, Alyssa Nicole joins Mal to talk about being in a relationship with a narcissist. She shares how circumstance and substance abuse led to being married to someone she had just met, and her journey to realizing the relationship was abusive.
Alyssa provides insight into signs you're dealing with a narcissist, recognizing manipulation, and tips on how to leave the situation.
*Content Warning: This episode contains content that may be challenging to some listeners.*
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Instagram: / wtfalyssanicole
TikTok: / wtfalyssanicole
Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/6UmbYMF...
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For all other inquiries, please email [e-mail]

[@tinatlyn]

Not me watching this as a Lesbian who got a business degree and joined a sorority 😊

[@hiportugal]

🤣🤣🤣

[@veronicaaristeguieta3072]

Also a lesbian who joined a sorority!

[@EmiliaSkade]

Omgggg

[@Ayin07]

Oh yeah. I’m a mental health professional and what she describes is borderline personality disorder, not narcissistic personality disorder. Narcississm has become such a pop psychology buzz word that it’s used to describe every abusive relationship dynamic. A lot of the time the person is using it incorrectly . Also, people who have experienced abusive relationships falsely believe themselves to be subject matter experts. It’s okay to use the term, “emotional abusive relationship” without the narcissistic diagnosis.

[@cafesparrow28]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@sds6303]

I’m a therapist also. Narcissism is only in the DSM on a technicality. Narcissism is a description of a personality style, not a diagnosis. Me saying someone is narcissistic is like saying, “He’s funny, she’s nice, he’s shy, she’s extroverted”. I’m not diagnosing them, just naming their personality. You should look up Dr. Ramani Durvasala, she’s the world renowned expert on narcissism. Now, yes to me this seems a little more borderline, however up to 40% of people with BPD also have narcissistic traits and up to about 25% of people who are narcissistic have traits of BPD. There is a lot of overlap with the two personalities.

[@Ayin07]

@@sds6303 Yes, cluster b personalities overlap. I trained through medicine, so I use the DSM-V, guidelines, and rating scales. We absolutely do diagnose personality disorders. Most of the cluster b personalities are best treated with DBT or MBT. So, it is important for us to make the distinction to avoid unnecessarily medicating conditions that are not best treated with pharmacotherapy. I actually do not like Dr Durvasala. I think it's doing the mental health field a disservice because we have undereducated people feeling empowered to label or diagnose others. These diagnoses are nuanced.

[@FJElegance-er2kr]

I am a mental health clinician The impulsive behaviours The substance abuse Fear of abandonment Suicidal ideation and emotional blackmail Intense relationship Lack of identity Lack of self awareness and blaming someone else, not taking accountability for themselves Jealous Projection Emotional outbursts Self harming and emotional blackmailing This is borderline personality disorder, not narcissistic. These 2 personality disorders are cluster B personalities, so there are some overlapping symptoms.

[@sds6303]

👋 Another fellow therapist!

[@judithfox2435]

The thing about this podcast is it’s universal. It doesn’t matter what age you are, male or female, issues with narcissism are something everyone can relate to. Being LGBTQ+ just makes it a bit more difficult. We have pressures others don’t have. This podcast today really hit home with me. 🙏

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

wow thank you for saying that ❤ so glad you enjoyed today’s episode. thank you for listening!

[@smoothinfldr6994]

Mal really is the best person to tell stories to

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🥹🫶

[@BrunoEdwardFrancisco]

It's so true that the pandemic being locked down and then being released as we look back really psychologically has had such an impact, big moves, coming out or rushing to big decisions. Thank you Alyssa for sharing your story.

[@yesterdaywasADTR]

I have BPD and to me this ex-wife sounds like she has borderline personality disorder. Unfortunately this girl sounds like she knows she has it (because she was diagnosed) and didn't do anything about it. To a normal person it can seem like we are narcissistic and intentionally want to hurt people. I my experience it is not intentional at all, and we are genuinely terrified of abandonment. But I'm also very self aware and even when I'm splitting or having an episode, at the worst of the worst, I know that I can't threaten to kill myself or lash out or anything like that. No matter how I'm feeling I have to be aware of what I say and do and how it can affect other people. It takes a certain level of self awareness to have a healthy relationship as somebody with BPD. But we can do it if we really try.

[@timtam39tw]

As a counselor who works with the domestic violence population frequently. It's good to hear this topic talk about in the LGBT community .❤👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

[@Heeybarbs]

It seems like her ex has a borderline personality disorder. It sucks to be in relationships like this. I’m also a people’s pleaser and had gone through a lot of things to keep toxic people in my life without knowing what was going on. Being raised by narcissists takes us to so many places we can’t believe we get in. Luckily we can get help and get better. It takes time and patience, but it seems worth it. And it is always good to listen to other people’s stories and see they overcame it and that we have a light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for sharing this!

[@atlasinwonderland6346]

I was gunna say, this doesn't sound like a narcissist it sounds like something else. A narcissistic person would never threaten to kill themselves. They love themselves too much 😂

[@junevertucci3420]

Whew! Dang did her story resonate big time as far as the Narcissistic abusive relationship. Went through everything she talked about. Glad we both made it out.

[@clairhamill5804]

A very interesting talk. If you take every time Alyssa said "Her/She" and replace it with "He/Him" nothing in this talk screamed "Lesbian". This is what every straight person deal with if they are in a relationship with a Narcassist. While a lot of these videos are obviously "lesbian" in nature, this one is very generic. Gay, Straight, this is what people encounter with a Narcassist. So many people, straight or gay, could benefit from this video. Thank you for sharing.

[@TheHeavenswhip]

This is a really good episode! I can relate in a way, I now have an ex best friend who turned out to be a borderline personality disordered person on top of being a narcissist. Narcissists never take accountability or responsibility and they always pin it back on you for fault of anything. They go through a cycle of hating you to sadness to the threatening of their life back to your the greatest person. It really is true it takes 7 times to leave... I tried to help back then but in truth they never want to be helped because they NEVER see it from a different point of view.

[@someonesomehow379]

it’s so interesting to me that I watch each episode of the podcast and always relate to the guest like in every single episode I’ve related to at least one experience or feeling and I feel so seen

[@tarinimathur382]

This was such a great episode. Thanks for sharing your story Alyssa. Hearing your story just confirmed to me once more that I had been trapped in a marriage with a severely narcissistic person and suffered abuse too. More power to you for working through it all and going into therapy to understand why we take on such abusive partners.

[@stinrosa]

right on time! thank you for discussing such important topic

[@naturenut7695]

Another great episode. Find myself looking forward to these. I'm a firm believer in listening to that little voice inside you. I don't think it will steers you wrong. If it doesn't feel right then it's not right get out of the situation. The texting your ex issue I think it's different for everyone. I think if you're young and in a new relationship it can definitely be a challenge. If you were brought up a strong confident woman it would be easier than someone that struggles with their Identity or self-esteem. I think as you mentally mature and grow in your confidence then you tend to worry less about these issues. But really it's just about a good strong confident healthy relationship and great communication with each other other. As always thanks for taking us along for the ride.

[@mtwsz]

Listening to your podcasts feels like hanging out with my best friends..Thank you. Bisous from Marrakech!

[@hfortenberry]

Your ex wife sounds like she has BPD, not NPD. They can present the same and there is overlap but the intense fear of abandonment she had is a core symptom of BPD.

[@KayBassie]

Wow the pandemic was such a switch for soo many in different ways. Thank you for sharing your story Alyssa. 7 times to leave, wow. It's good to know these signs to see what to look out for.

[@sophiawells1947]

“you’ve spun me into such a tizzy.” REAL. 😭😂❤️

[@pura1]

Thank you 🙏🏽. I lost everyone including myself being in a relationship with her. It felt like she took the best of me and I still suffer. I will never be the same. She made everything about her. Even after her brother S/A me. It was all about her. I’m so happy I’m out of that bs. I hope she loses everything. But i know that’s not me either. But it’s crazy the signs you can instantly smell out after a narc relationship. Only positive people now.

[@awardh468]

great episode. Literally my fav podcast ty for all that u do

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🥹thank you for listening

[@PatEleonore]

It actually takes 7 violent altercations to leave a domestic violence relationship

[@PatEleonore]

Also, sounds more like borderline with a co-occurring substance use disorder not narcissism

[@thaisgastaldi1180]

@etienne9858 yeah, that didn't sound so much of narcissist, because narcissist usually take advantage of power balance relationships, they usually don't get fucked up with someone, they dont get so self destructive

[@willow1698]

​@@PatEleonoreI was about to comment this. It's so awful how much people demonize people with NPD. Especially when this isn't even NPD. It's fine to call abuse exactly what it is: ABUSE. It does not need a qualifier. Especially not one with such a negative stigma behind it already.

[@ms.laterholmes2890]

Definitely I think that has a lot to do with maybe being gaslighted as well. The abuse is overwhelming.

[@_asantesana_squashbanana_]

​@@willow1698 People on the dark triad are overwhelmingly abusive and have a unique style of abuse.

[@cameronvansant2108]

Really powerful story. Alyssa is really insightful about their experience and this is really helpful.

[@mariagracia6830]

Estaba esperando este cap. Love it 🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@amberlynnmartinmusic]

Absolutely relate! Thanks for sharing your story. Also, LISTEN TO YOUR FRIENDS and fam. That is the BEST advice. This is definitely my favorite podcast. Thank you so much for your inclusiveness and diversity. love love love!!!

[@claudi6349]

"Listen to your friends" .. just two weeks ago I decided I'm going to get a T-Shirt printed with that on the front!! 😅

[@Nutritionbyanni]

Unfortunately I can really relate to this...went through something very similar with a man...looking back it's insane what you go through being in a relationship like that. Thanks for being so raw and sharing, that's helping me to date to heal.

[@truetarottarius]

What an episode! haha I love it 👏👏👏

[@sette900]

Great episode as usual 🙏

[@lolwatisdis3312]

another great episode !!

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

🫶

[@ROCKONplaceboforever]

Im catching up love this podcast this episode hits so many important issues ❤🌈

[@MichelleKelly_9]

You're both soooo stunningg! Such an amazing episode :)

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

thank you🥹

[@JuliMaria]

Omg...I remember this time so vividly because I was a follower of them and their ex and loved them so much together. But I still had a weird feeling when they made their marriage public. I'm so sorry alyssa went through all of this. This is again a perfect example that social media is fake and you can't trust what you see on there

[@aineearley]

Love this podcast

[@barnaliadhikary9421]

What a great episode

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

thank you!

[@rebelaney]

Damn... It took me about 7 or 8 years to get out of my relationship that looked a lot like this, except she also had schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder (schizoaffective). When she couldn't get off meth/crack I sent her on her way. She has now bounced between jail and mental hospitals for the last 3 years. It's really sad and makes me feel awful, but I had to cut off contact after she ended up back in jail. I'll still get calls/voicemails every once in a while from a new number, with her reaching out to me. It breaks my heart, but I finally had to come to the realization that she wasn't ever going to stay on her meds, stay off drugs, and get better.

[@littlecherry2666]

to nourish is a great way to phrase to care for eachother in relationships

[@rensins08]

LMAOOOOO i definitely clutched my pearls on the first uhaul you go ghost question because i originally joined tiktok after leaving my narcissistic ex & couldnt afford therapy right away a friend suggested that app because it had plenty of therapists who provided generalized advice & helpful information & i definitely started referring to those tiktoks in conversation in general. Also, i definitely understand "gen z" lingo because it's just AAVE but it's often misused, so its clear even the ppl repeating it don't actually know what their saying either 😂😅

[@hiportugal]

i am pro tiktok lingo as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@JennSarracenia]

Interesting. I studied psych and from the description given (partial), that doesn’t sound like NPD. That sounds like BPD.

[@goozy101]

Mal, you convinced me to order a Stanley - I’m sick of being dehydrated with my current straw-less water bottles. I loved your genuine enthusiasm for the tumbler; I rewatched that part a couple times & couldn’t stop laughing 😂❤

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

ahh omg! yay you’re gonna love it!! let me know what you think!!

[@valenngerez]

What are they reading at the end? 😂 Love it

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

lesbian haikus 😂 there’s one at the end of every episode!!

[@patricialane7896]

Great episode. Have you ever tried Yeti instead of Stanley? They’ve got great products for drinking beverages. All sizes that fit all cup holders with straws and or lids. They keep water cold and coffee/tea hot for a long time. And no I don’t work for them, just own several of their products. Sorry for rambling on about this!

[@tananario23]

The screw on lid sucks, the threads are almost impossible to align correctly. The handle is uncomfortable. And they are more expensive than Stanley products. I own 3 different styles. 😂

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

omg didn’t know the yeti did the cup holder thing

[@madmessm1845]

Great podcasts! It'd be interesting to include guests from outside United States. Greetings from Europe 👋

[@vknox1029]

There are many types of narcissism, we would only know when we have personally dealt with them. We will see it in their habits, patterns and red flags. We would know by time. So i will not invalidate what she went through. Hopefully she will heal from toxic codependancy

[@spiritsky111963]

I went through that with my ex. I sometimes relive it even though I dont live with her at all over 28 years now. She kept me away from other people friends and would hit me. One time that I can remember I had a big black eye crying. And didnt have any friends at the time either

[@keziahk4372]

I love this podcast. But the wineglasses clinking after an entire conversation about substance abuse, specifically alcohol, fueling the personal downfall alyssa was discussing??JUMPSCARE. I was shocked to find out they were drinking throughout. I know this pod almost always shows drinking, but I was hoping this particular story might wrap up being a plug for a non-alcoholic drink or something. Missed opportunity and a confusing lesson for the younger fans I'm sure you have, in my opinion. Quitting drinking was the best thing I ever did for my relationships. Recovery is possible! Otherwise, keep up the good work and interesting guests. Mal is clearly a gem and one of the best interviewers in the game.

[@alyssanicole356]

Hey! It’s Alyssa here. I totally see what you’re saying: I probably should have elaborated as a disclaimer that I have done a lot of inner work to be able to enjoy mindful drinking since all this had transpired. I am doing much better now. My main issue that I needed to tackle was partying, distracting myself and people pleasing. Thank you for sharing this and Congrats on your sobriety!

[@keziahk4372]

Hey, so so so glad you are doing better, too. And thank you so much for sharing your story; it is, of course, your own journey, but it is also really, really meaningful to the world!

[@TPark-rf3lt]

33:51 I'm sorry, but I'm with Alyssa on this one 😂 Although...the way Mal is the unofficial spokesperson for Stanley is the best 😂 Stanley should sponsor this podcast!

[@Kokimarie1626]

I went through this same experience

[@NiinaSKlove]

Yes! Stanley is the best!!! 😂😂😂😂😍😍😍

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

getting her one- she’ll change her mind 😏

[@NiinaSKlove]

@@MadeItOutPodcast Yes 🙌🏼 Do that!! I’m pretty sure she’ll love it as much as we do! 😄😄😄

[@starchild2727]

There seems to be a trend with calling failed relationship partners narcs. Take ur power back- and address why you are *codependent*.

[@elissajo3671]

Amazing

[@karku3fan]

This ex wife situation just sounds like undiagnosed or untreated bpd

[@michelealyce]

Did she ever try to contact you? Or make an attempt to kind of make things right between the two of you? We all do crazy things when we're in party mode..years later in retrospect, this would bother me.. I would always wonder what happened to her..

[@iamgabriel5823]

Addictions is a totally narcissistic pursuit. An addict needs to be completely self-absorbed in their obsession to get access to their drug of choice. It's always all about them.

[@asnzkskos]

Her ex sounds more like borderline, which is really, really dangerous to deal with if a loved one has it.

[@kittyfitssy]

I really wish I could afford to give everyone on earth a copy of Disentangling from Emotionally Immature People or frankly any or all of Gibson’s books. Frankly I think too often I ask myself whether someone “means” to be self-focused or harmful rather than nothing justifies it? Someone doesn’t have to be a full blown clinical narcissist to be bad for you or a bad person. And intent doesn’t define goodness. Learning to validate ourselves and our feelings without them being “correct” is a first step.

[@lavenderrosecosplay5639]

Thank you for mentioning those. I'll look them up :)

[@HazelwithaZ]

It's taken me years to listen to that little voice, but the more I did, the clearer it got. It's also taken me more than seven tries to leave, but I never stopped trying. That voice was the real me, the rest was fear and grooming.

[@JulesLern]

♥️

[@jadeam3795]

This but when she threatened to ☠️ her self I did first and ended up in rehab n I still have struggled dating ever since. I’m alive now so thank god for that😅+ she outed me to my homophobic parents and I live in Middle East where I would literally get jailed for being gay all this shit at 16,don’t know if therapy would fix me at this point.

[@angelwin1243]

Nice

[@mossplantz]

i dont knowwww, it sounds like her ex had bpd and sounds like she's kind of projecting on the narcissism part..

[@meschahayes1003]

My eye won't stop twitching watching the guest not remove the strand of hair from her eye. 😫

[@KaraFrances-il8mi]

" demonic " good choice of words..... that was litterally prob her problem..... not kidding Also im afraid American Horror Story is a profoundly unhealthy dark show to watch and i hope she wont work on any more horror movies Narcissists MAKE THEM and CELEBRATE THE DARK???? ( Thank u both for being honest and considerate really tho )

[@bertieborough]

Setting boundaries in relationships is never a good idea. It communicates the fact that you don't trust your partner and if there is no trust how it can be a healthy relationship?

[@willow1698]

Clearly y'all do not know what narcissism is because narcissists would relate heavily to the first clip. It just doesn't SEEM that way to others. Narcissistic abuse doesn't exist and it stigmatizes those who suffer with NPD (a genuine disorder) and makes them less likely to seek help. It's just abuse, it's fine to call it what it is. And honestly sometimes they WILL seem that way to others when they realize that it's something that people don't like. Narcissists suffer with so much self-doubt and inner turmoil, it's a disorder that's EXTREMELY similar to BPD, if that helps make it make more sense. It's just so disappointing to see all of this stigma.

[@willow1698]

Also, this woman sounds far more borderline (BPD) than narcissistic (NPD). Fear of real or imagined abandonment, extreme clinginess, splitting… Please stop using mental health terms in place of abuser. It's not nice, it's not accurate, and it makes it so much harder for people to seek help. Being a narcississt DOES NOT make you an abuser, just like being anxious, depressed, borderline, etc. don't mske you abusive either.

[@ElizabethConklin-kh5cg]

She says that she later found out the girl was a diagnosed narcissist so the assumptions is that she was clinically observed and diagnosed by a psychiatrist?? obviously not all narcissists are abusive but i think its fair to say that if she had a NPD diagnosis her behaviors were likely linked to that. No shade but i'm seeing these comments of people trying to diagnose this girl and can almost guarantee none of yall be reading the DSM 5 🤫

[@willow1698]

​@@ElizabethConklin-kh5cgI did read the DSM. In fact it's quite literally open next to me right now. This is why I even quoted the diagnostic criteria for BPD. Maybe she really does have NPD, still doesn't mean that her abuse was "narcissistic abuse" because that does not exist. It was just abuse, plain and simple. I'm not diagnosing, if you'll read my comment you'll see I'm just speculating. And you say it's obvious, but it doesn't seem to be obvious to many people who use the term "narcissist" and "narcissistic abuse" to refer to abusers. It's fair to say that with any mental health disorder (AND personality type), an abuser's abuse is going to be linked back to that. No shade to you either, but it's very frustrating to see this misinformation spread. I hope you see what I'm getting at here.

[@leahstumm9662]

👍

[@browncow6392]

Karin exposed

[@NoirL.A.]

wait a second...i thought only straight females went thru this sorda emotional hell. i thought once straight males were removed from the picture everything was paradise and bliss. wut gives?!?!?!?

[@alaadamfree]

❤️‍🩹

[@ariellepeters4615]

They lowkey have the same face

[@Raddiebaddie]

Love the pod~ I noticed your guest uses she/they but I heard you heavily relying on she/her pronouns. It can really make your friends feel seen when you use their other pronouns too in the future :) thanks for sharing another good convo

[@FM-tx5es]

Didn’t dig this episode. Mature up a bit.

[@whitney4902]

Agree

[@adrianaavila5672]

GIRLS, we attract the persons and situations that we NEED to experience to do it better. #SelfAwareness

[@missolympiabinewski]

You should have that Tiktokker who was forced into conversion therapy on. She just had her first lesbian breakup! EricaHasALastName.

[@audioeins]

❤