Meat eater calls out hypocrite vegan! Harvard debate.

[@ed.winters]

To try everything Brilliant has to offer for free for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/earthlinged. The first 200 people to sign up through the link will also get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription :) Get your copy of my new book How to Argue With a Meat Eater (And Win Every Time) here: howtoarguewithameateater.com - thank you so much for your support!

[@LouisGedo]

*2023-------------Year of the Vegan Activist* 🏆

[@TheWorldTeacher]

​@@LouisGedo 👶

[@LouisGedo]

@@TheWorldTeacher 🔪👶 = 🥩 for 👽

[@TheWorldTeacher]

@@LouisGedo 🥳🎉 Happy New Year, Mr. Condoner-of-child-murder!! 🎉🥳

[@phily8093]

That was a nice first date. Where are you going for the second one?

[@Masilya111]

The human predator that hunts his prey at McDonald's with the help of his survival instincts

[@justsomeguy2825]

So does that make hunting ok? And before you mention guns and traps, the intellegence and collaboration we use to hunt animals is also used by other members of the animal kingdom, like wolves who hunt like a pack where one lone wolf wouldn't stand a chance, or dolphins who intelligently create dust flurries to confuse their faster and more agile prey. If it's unnatural that we have organized food production, then is farming plants also unnatural? The primal human instinct is to eat whatever can be found, just as a pig does, whether that be meat or plants, and we as a society developed organized food production to increase the well being of the species. So the way that we eat currently is not that far removed from human instinct. We see food, and therefore we cook and eat it, simply because it's food.

[@Veganarchy-Zetetic]

We are not the ones using 'nature tho' as an excuse for justifying pleasuring ourselves from immoral actions. @@justsomeguy2825

[@TheWorldTeacher]

🐟 30. FOOD & DIET: There are THREE kinds of foods according to the three "modes" explicated in Chapter 18 of this “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity”. Foods in the mode of purity promote good physical and mental health. The adage "healthy body, healthy mind" is pertinent to this mode. Such foods include, in approximate order of their importance: fruits (especially if they are tree-ripened), vegetables, nuts, legumes/pulses, grains, roots, flowers, tubers, bulbs, and of course, purified water (or milk, in the case of infants), supplemented with seeds and herbs. To be included in this classification, the food must be LIVING, that is, fresh and raw (or at most, steamed or lightly sautéed, if one is residing in a cold clime). Most animals subsist on living foodstuffs, so to be considered healthy, the food must be both living and natural. As with all herbivorous mammals, humans who consume a pure diet normally experience a bowel movement after each substantial meal. Foods in the mode of passion promote indigestion (or, at least, are more difficult to digest than pure foods) and overly-excite the mind. Such foods are basically the same as above, but with excessive amounts of oil, spices, sweeteners, salt and/or other condiments added. To be included in this category, the VEGETARIAN* foods may be properly cooked, but not overcooked, and mildly to moderately seasoned. Those who consume foods predominately in the mode of passion normally defecate after breaking their fast (i.e. the first meal of the day). Foods in the mode of darkness cannot rightly be called “food” at all, and invariably cause digestive upsets, such as constipation or diarrhoea. Such “offal” is either dry, stale, putrid, rancid, decayed, carcinogenic, overcooked (or even worse, burnt), processed beyond recognition, or the remnants of another’s meal (that is, food that has been leftover by a person who is lower in the hierarchy of society than the person who intends to consume it. For example, it would be offensive for a beggar to offer the remains of his meal to his king, yet the converse would be a rather gracious act of kindness). Again, to be included in this classification, the food is to be of wholly PLANT or fungal origin. Ideally, the bulk (if not ALL) of one's diet should comprise of minimally-processed raw foods, such as tropical fruits or vegetable salads, the latter of which often consists of fruits anyway, since such foods as tomatoes, cucumbers and olives are, in fact, fruits, since they are seed-bearing foods. If one consumes a very high proportion of raw fruits, it is rarely, if ever, necessary to fast. Fasting is beneficial for those who partake in a diet high in processed and cooked dishes. Fruit-juice fasting is possibly the best method of fasting, especially for those living an active lifestyle. Unless one is particularly active, eating more than two meals per day is unnecessary. Ideally, cooked and highly-processed foods should be reserved for the final meal of the day, since the process of digestion itself consumes more energy than any other activity. It is an undeniable scientific fact that humans are a HERBIVOROUS species (more specifically, a predominantly frugivorous, or fruit-eating animal). There is not a single aspect of human psychology or physiology that even suggests that we were designed or evolved to feed on our fellow animals. The primary visual cortex of the brains of hominids has precisely evolved to recognise the colourful fruits that grew in the tropics of the African continent. Only a veritable troglodyte could possibly take delight in the sight and stench of bloody animal carcasses! Practically all cat owners know to feed their pets with animal flesh, as they understand that felines are obligate carnivores, yet they have not the slightest clue that humans are herbivores biologically, and that the consumption of animal products is gradually destroying their health. Animal consumption is lawful only if there is a scarcity of ACTUAL food. However, to be fair, some races have adapted reasonably well to an omnivorous diet due to residing in regions of the earth where edible vegetation has been scarce, for millennia before the twentieth century. But even then, those races have been found to improve their health when their diet had been enriched with vegetation. Humans originated in the wetlands of tropical Africa and our source of food is necessarily to be found in such a climate. We humans must surely be the only species of animal life that migrates away from its food source! Who among you would not prefer tropical fruits over the “food” found in the Arctic Circle? Unnecessarily killing and/or consuming animals is an ABOMINABLE action. It is not natural for humans to hunt animals like sheep, cows, goats, rabbits, chicken, and fish, and gorge on their bloody carcasses. Sheep, rabbits, and cows are food for carnivorous animals such as lions, tigers and wolves, and fish is food for marine and semi-aquatic species. Do humans live in the ocean? Of course not! Then why is it necessary for us to go into the water to find our food? Is that sensible? Not at all, unless, as previously mentioned, one is afflicted with true hunger (and even in the event that one is literally dying of starvation, one ought to, from a moral perspective, as far as practical, eat those animals that are lower in the hierarchy of sentience, such as seafood. Slaughtering a primate is immeasurably more sinful than feeding on crustacean, for instance). Milk is intended solely for consumption by infants of the SAME species. Cow’s milk is for baby cows, not adult humans. The logic is overwhelming, but unfortunately, not all persons are capable of reaching such a base level of logic to understand that it is unnatural for a human to suckle on the teats of a cow or goat. Furthermore, like all unnatural substances, dairy products are harmful to human physiology. Ideally, one should sit in a comfortable position and eat one’s meal with a RELAXED mental disposition. Consuming food in an anxious state of mind may cause digestive upsets. If practical, eating with bare (washed) hands is more conducive to the enjoyment of one’s meal. “And God said, ‘Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.’” Genesis 1:29. The Old Testament portion of the “Holy Bible”. “Let food be thy medicine, and let medicine be thy food.” Hippocrates, Father of modern medicine. *The term “Vegetarian” is used LITERALLY here, that is, “one who subsists on vegetation”. One who consumes vegetation and dairy and/or eggs is properly called a “lacto-vegetarian” or a “lacto-ovo vegetarian”, respectively. The term “vegan” is not directly related to diet, but to the philosophy of the avoidance of harming animal life unnecessarily. Animal killing is permissible only in the case of true hunger, self-defence, or in order to eradicate vermin from one's dwelling and work places. Obviously, veganism is to be promoted as the ideal way of life for all humans. N.B. If you are reading this Holy Scripture, it is highly probable that you are familiar with the concept of the “Three Modes of Nature” (“trī-guṇa”, in Sanskrit). If not, it may be prudent to read or re-read Chapter 18 of “FISH” at this point. In any case, those who are, in fact, familiar with the three modes of nature have an extremely flawed understanding of how they apply to food and diet, particularly if they have studied the ancient Indian texts known collectively as “Ayur Veda” (“The Science of Life/Longevity”). Those persons invariably believe that animal products are categorized in the mode of darkness. However, that assumes that animals are actually human food, which they most assuredly are not. The system outlined above is by far the most accurate, logical, and authoritative method of classifying food, and ought to be followed by anyone who is truly desirous of living a wholesome life. Unfortunately, even most vegans seem to lean towards less-than-healthy foods. © 2019-2023 Spiritual Sciences Society.

[@Jenjak]

​@@justsomeguy2825the natural or unnatural question is irrelevant. The question is ethical. Since we don't have to kill animals (sentient beings) to live anymore, we have a moral responsibility when we consciously make the decision to promote the meat industry or when we kill an animal for the thrill of the hunt. Wether you hunt for survival or hunt for fun while you could feed on plants is completely different ethical choice.

[@criska3785]

​@@justsomeguy2825YOU DONT LIVE IN THE WILD, GUY! WAKE UP! Stop making excuses. You do your "hunting" on the super "dangerous supermarket"! 🙄 If one's "instinct" is above everything, no one needs laws or moral rules to guide us, according what you are arguing. 🙄🙄🙄 People should listen themselves before saying this kind of things. 🙄 ANYONE DONT NEED TO K1II ANIMALS ANYMORE. THEY SUFFER AND WE KNOW. PERIOD.

[@Aueen]

Ed. What you do is pure beauty. No matter who you talk to, you always keep up the respect for the other person and still make them question their values - in such a loving way. It makes everyone involved feel good and valued. Thank you.

[@TylerSmith-hq8en]

Good point. I noticed that too. I also noticed that the trolls and animal agriculture propagandists that leave snark and half truths on Earthling Ed's Facebook page are not very nice or sincere people.

[@sylphyy]

Yeah, sometimes i don't know how he does it tbh. I'd be debating my ass off with miles more condescension - since it's so hard to not speak explicitly about the degree of animal torture frankly in a civil or kind manner.

[@Maynards_so_blue]

Im not vegan but i appreciate Ed unlike joey carbstrong who is an annoying, loud, arrogant bully

[@pegbuckner5074]

Ed you turned me vegan two years ago, when I heard you say one statement… “Is your taste preference more important than an animal’s entire life?” Thank you!! 🙏🏻

[@Trylica]

Awww❤

[@neil17z]

That sentence does hit hard… proud of you and the change you made! Much respect 💚🙏🏻🫡

[@benwaggler3541]

For me it was considering the ethical concerns, for the animals and the environment, and hearing Ed point out that not eating meat is the simplest and most effective action an individual can take to help better the world.

[@Communism.is.a.cancer]

My taste preference is more important than an animals life. I don't care about food.

[@Communism.is.a.cancer]

​@@benwaggler3541is ed like a god to you that you believe and follow everything he says and does?

[@StillTrustNo1]

This was a intellectually honest "opponent", gotta give him credit for that. He repeated his naatural fallacy a few times, but no ones perfect. Still he admitted the validity of Ed's argumentation, there should be more people like him. Honesty over ego any day.

[@yosf5221]

"That's a really good point." He must have said it at least 10 times. He seemed a bit surprised each time he was countered.

[@mitchgoldstein6720]

no one ever thinks about this stuff because we've been so conditioned and blinded @@yosf5221

[@ASOT666]

Yep. I have definitely had some fallacious talking points during a debate, had them highlighted, pondered over them for days/weeks and come around to admitting that my original POV was wrong. It takes some time but seeds for ideas can definitely be planted and flourish! Not always immediately within a 10 minute convo, but this young lad seemed like an open-minded guy.

[@StillTrustNo1]

@@ASOT666 Excactly - the purpose of debate is to plant seeds - and facts is that even sprouts takes days to grow, so it is for most that needs to shed a lifetime in the chains of Carnism

[@sgcarlos]

That’s that MILO

[@bradvincent2586]

AHHH this is good. I accidentally stumbled on your videos a couple days ago and now I’m a vegan. You got me good, God… I got got

[@ambermyers9174]

Awesome 😈🐈

[@simranvl115]

Same thing happened to me about 3 and a half years ago

[@Mike-hn7vc]

Same for me 2 years ago

[@Communism.is.a.cancer]

Stop lying, you were already a vegan. You will not change anyone's mind with that stupid trick.

[@stacyhuss9454]

Stay strong, it’s so worth it!💚

[@thomasjohnson308]

"So why aren't you vegan?" I love how this question was repeated, that's really powerful.

[@TylerSmith-hq8en]

I also love Earthling Ed's tactic of having the other person say out loud that, "killing animals is compassionate". It's really powerful because it's get to the point that we're not just eating meat, we're killing an animal.

[@TomRauhe]

Because the only answer "pleasure" is massively immoral

[@someguy2135]

"Why aren't you vegan?" First excuse refuted? Check! "Why aren't you vegan?" Second excuse refuted? Check! "Why aren't you vegan?" Third excuse refuted? Check! "Why aren't you vegan?" Time to diplomatically tell him to Google plant based protein sources, etc.

[@shiv_ring]

with a lil cheeky smile ofc :P

[@KK-111]

Because the answer for this dude is, apparently: "Because I am doing this interview just to get filmed; I have no intention whatsoever to change my meat eating habits, and I have no idea what you are talking about, dude"...

[@TheLiberatorsInternational]

His willingness to acknowledge his own inconsistency is beautiful and impressive. Bravo.

[@mentality-monster]

It should be a basic function of any reasonable person. Unfortunately people are far more likely to do something they know is wrong as long as everyone else is doing the same thing. It doesn't even require any active coercion or threat. The thought that they might look silly or weak is enough for them to continue sustaining an industry that kills billions of animals every year. So fucked up.

[@ChuckleHoneybear]

Meat eaters seem to suddenly care a lot about ants in these debates 🤔

[@ninahocking5709]

Ha ha! Once someone starts this 'debate' run away! X

[@IpkissYelnats]

Every vegan deep down wants a good steak

[@musicplug1730]

the reality is life is sustained by consuming other life. Whether you eat veggies or animals. Also if we didn't breed these animals to consume, they would be extinct.

[@excalibro8365]

They don't and it's consistent. Vegans apparently don't, which is contrary to the whole point of preventing suffering.

[@bakirev]

It's not about caring about ants. It's about showing that through your existence you cause harm to other beings and that where you draw the line or what is practical is not objective.

[@lionstho]

Bro came out of the gates pretty aggro with that “ants tho” argument. He got humbled pretty quick.

[@thegrammar_nazi]

Yeah, video should be titled "privileged Harvard brat get put in his place"

[@NebulaSon]

​@@thegrammar_naziBro calm down

[@nasiatsekouras170]

@@thegrammar_nazi Love that. That’s what it is.

[@sandray7609]

😂😂😂

[@drunkvegangal8089]

@@thegrammar_nazi A big part of the reason Ed argues successfully is he doesn't approach people in the way you have suggested.

[@aubreyvandyne5284]

Thanks for approaching meat eaters with grace and dignity, Ed.

[@catwalkster]

What a stupid thing to say. He's approaching them the way he does because that's the most effective way. Not because they really deserve grace and dignity. Hippy.

[@maxwell_edison]

..Even when they don't always return the favor LOL

[@aubreyvandyne5284]

@@maxwell_edison the best way to win people over is to show kindness. Ed does that very well. It probably helps that he looks like Jesus too. 😂

[@robjohn6943]

@@aubreyvandyne5284 no the best way to win people over is with honesty.

[@aubreyvandyne5284]

@@robjohn6943 with both kindness and honesty of course

[@NeutralMjolkHotel]

This guy actually seems pretty cool. The guard was up initially but he ended up having a pretty good convo. Nice activism here. Definitely has him thinking.

[@christopherandelin]

I appreciate that the non vegan is having an honest discourse.

[@seitan8386]

Great debate and great guest. Nice to see an open minded person willing to admit where he was wrong and keep on continuing with the conversation regardless. His humble nature shows he has a potential to break from the social conditioning and become vegan for sure. He admitted that he may not change his way I think due to his acknowledgment that as of right now his lack of knowledge may not be there, but you can tell the seeds Ed has planted here may be enough some day for him to at least look into veganism or at least eat more plants and limit his meat consumption.

[@shawncudjoe9584]

Do vegans think of themselves as herbivores?

[@sylphyy]

@@shawncudjoe9584 If you mean as a species, I doubt it. It basically ends at considering oneself vegan - not to mention it is more than diet, it is a lifestyle and a belief system.

[@drk3249]

​@@shawncudjoe9584 that question really depends but theres a lot of scientific evidence which proves that humans are actually biologically hebivorous and NOT carnivores and NOT omnivorous

[@shawncudjoe9584]

@@sylphyy Lifestyle and beliefs are subjective. If the vegan lifestyle works for you then fine but it doesn't work for everyone.

[@shawncudjoe9584]

@@drk3249 I know humans are omnivorous but for the sake of this discussion. Can you present the evidence that humans are herbivores? And not from a vegan website.

[@Mag_1418]

Let's face it, he thought it would be over after his first "argument" xD

[@duck2477]

It's nice that he stuck around and listened, but he came in trying to hit Ed with some hypocrisy argument, thought he'd 'win' the debate with it, and it'd be over. Didn't have any good argument as to why he isn't vegan as the sign prompted for the discussion.

[@80slimshadys]

​​@@duck2477thing is though it wasn't even hypocrisy since the argument for animal rights and rights in general has nothing to do with accidents. The guys argument that because an accidental death can happen that means rights shouldn't be granted is really, really, really stupid. It means that because accidental humans deaths can occur then human rights shouldn't exist and slavery and murder are therefore moral. It's so brain dead.

[@TryingtoTellYou]

It was...

[@bonniehansen4898]

Agree, it's amazing the crap people arm themselves with thinking they're making such a valid point.

[@beakalin3923]

"You got me in the corner..." Yes, there is no argument against veganism!💚🌱🙏

[@Communism.is.a.cancer]

There are enough arguments against veganism. One is that it is not healthy and you don't get enough nutrients.

[@SillyBillyOneHundreadMilly]

There is... I like meat therefore I'm not a vegan. Simple as that

[@beakalin3923]

@@SillyBillyOneHundreadMilly Yes, it's that easy to explain violence and cruelty to animals.

[@SillyBillyOneHundreadMilly]

@@beakalin3923 It is because your only retort is to call me immoral and I don't share your morals. Simple

[@steverichardson8655]

There are many arguments against this "religion" of veganism. 1. Human health. 2. Topsoil destruction. 3 Deforestation. 4. Water pollution from fertilizer runoff. 5. Shipping carbon footprint. 6. Pesticides 7. Ecosystem destruction. If you have an ounce of objectivity left in your brain. Please look at all the evidence and facts around this very recent falacy that plants are the way humans are supposed to nourish or bodies. Many of you won't because you've been deceived and made to feel guilty about the simple fact that in order for something to live on this planet something else has to die. The true heroes in the effort to save the planet are the people who are practicing regenerative ranching, with humane harvesting practices.

[@jaromjaromene8661]

He was so sure to school Ed on vegan hypocrisy, yet ended up admitting being illogical and morally inconsistent. 😂

[@Woah869]

Ummm that’s a great question

[@vietnamd0820]

At least the non-vegan shifted his tone once the debate got going

[@TheMindProjection]

He seems intellectual honest. Conversation made his gears grind. That's a great outcome imo.

[@miker7808]

You really think this was an authentic interview? The whole thing was staged and started off with “smashing ants from setting up the table”! LOL

[@lavalansterplays9497]

At least he admitted it.

[@GS-lq2is]

Great interview! I thought he was going to be hostile and closed minded at first, but no! Very intellectually honest guy.

[@frankmedrisch7451]

“So why aren’t you vegan?” Asked like 7x FUCKIN BRILLIANT

[@ranakhatibthomas4031]

Clearly a bright individual who was open to the discussion. He seems like the kind of guy who may well look into it further all thanks to Ed's magical ability to steer a discussion without putting the other person on the defensive. It's a gift I don't have...and I've read Ed's book and listened to him forever.

[@hiking1388]

It can be so hard to stay calm because every moment there's countless animals going through unimaginable cruelty. It's absurd that we need to do more than explain to others, "These animals are suffering because of us, so let's not do that anymore." Sadly, the world (people) don't work that way. So I try to stay calm because it's usually the most effective way to communicate to others, and the animals deserve that I communicate as effectively as possible. I know too that the rush of endorphins that get released from anger (especially righteous anger) can be addictive. So, I'm sure that can be a part of for some people. (Though honestly, for me personally, it's the cognitive dissonance and contradictions and endless justifications people have to excuse animal cruelty that gets my goat) May we all absorb a bit of Ed's calmness and knowledge! Best of luck on your vegan journey :)

[@robsengahay5614]

@@hiking1388What helps calm me is recalling I was that person making every excuse (albeit not out loud).

[@shiv_ring]

@@robsengahay5614 true, but ig it's harder when you went vegan overnight after your first real encounter with its points :/

[@sandray7609]

I can't do it either. No matter what I say, people are on the defensive. Ed has a gift

[@debbiedowner4327]

He’s a donkey

[@aaronko3480]

Wow, this conversation turned way around by the end. Incredible debate and discussion Ed, as always. You’re doing great work!

[@joshuaadamstithakayoutubel2490]

Testing on animals is also a major problem

[@Lalaafastroli]

It’s also the least talked about topic for some reason

[@SSS208-s]

@@Lalaafastroliagree as a vegan we should talk more because a lot of non-vegans are already against animal testing

[@ninahocking5709]

Animal testing is the biggest thorny topic out there.. ever! If it wasn't for animal testing my mum would have died at 45 from kidney failure. She had a succesful transplant and lived to 70. Thanks to animal experiments. I had aggressive breast cancer at 45yrs and would have died if it wasn't for animal experimentation. I feel awful about it. But then when you here about experiments for beauty products then that's really a no go. Such a difficult subject. But hey ho, human beings think about this stuff while other human beings are developing more and bigger nuclear weapons that can quite easily destroy every speck of organic life on this planet. What a world we live in!

[@SSS208-s]

@@ninahocking5709 their are other methods like vitro

[@joshuaadamstithakayoutubel2490]

@@ninahocking5709 Indeed!

[@OilCanHarry2U]

It’s such a great start off question for everyone. “So, why aren’t you Vegan?”

[@OilCanHarry2U]

@@BobbyFischer0000 you never were a vegan. Why lie?

[@OilCanHarry2U]

@@BobbyFischer0000 nah…you never were.

[@someguy2135]

@@BobbyFischer0000 You must have done it wrong. Google 21 day kickstart from the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine to learn how to switch to a fully plant based diet sustainably and for maximum health benefits.

[@StephenOfEarth]

@BobbyFischer0000 I believe the reasoning is that veganism is a moral standpoint. It's not something you change your mind about because you can't figure out how to adequately provide yourself with proper nutrition. You likely followed a plant based diet that was not well planned. Veganism is not a diet, my friend. Therefore, respectfully, you were never a vegan.

[@scslre]

@@BobbyFischer0000 cope harder, pal. that dissonance is going _nowhere_

[@kaizey]

Fantastic chat! The guy was open to discussion and readily admitted when he didn't have a good answer instead of doubling down with something he can't back up. That takes character!

[@lisamarielindenschmidt649]

As a person with a philosophy degree, I am astounded again and again at EE's approach. I have such mad respect for this man.

[@SeeNickView]

Socratic method ftw

[@alicefull]

"So why aren't you vegan?" "THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION"

[@DanielAura]

These kind of debates are my favorite ones, please do more :)

[@elliotnicklinmusic]

The more I read and watch the more I realise there is no moral justification for the consumption of meat in 99.999999% of scenarios, particularly in the context of our industrialised systems of production.

[@MMXVII]

Whole lot of "great questions" here 😆 respects for this guy sitting down and learning.

[@jujutrini8412]

How come no one ever just says this to answer the question: “I don’t really care about animals that much. I find it hard enough caring about my fellow human beings let alone animals outside my own species!”

[@AmeliaLidstrom]

Right . They never admit , I know it's wrong but I don't care.

[@gloopygoblin]

at least he was willing to listen

[@papabearchills4421]

Vegan Jesus, strikes again! I love your videos, Ed. You articulate yourself so beautifully, you stay calm and have a rebuttal for everything. Can’t wait to purchase your books.

[@zoemoskal9700]

His books are great!! I recommend the audiobook versions. He narrates them himself and I find his narration so soothing and reaffirming.

[@papabearchills4421]

@@zoemoskal9700 ooh thank you for the recommendation! I love listening to Ed’s responses and voice so I think I’d love the audiobooks.

[@brookelauerman3290]

You should do a debate on “why do you drink dairy?” There’s absolutely nothing natural about that

[@N9ndo]

Never heard of evolution ? People living in colder European countries had fewer food ressources available to survive, they had to consume dairy as a source of nutrient they couldn't get otherwise (vitamin D being one of them) and their bodies adapted to that type of nutrition.

[@MrLoknar]

@N9ndo Exactly. I think we need to stop altogether with this "natural" argument. All human cultures stem from human nature and the environment it was faced with, as such milk and dairy are "natural" practices as much as anything, and need to be understood in their context. The "raping cheetah argument" is a much better rebutal of naturalist arguments in my opinion, no need to invoke dairy

[@brookelauerman3290]

Yes I have heard of evolution. I know that people began to drink milk out of desperation. That’s not the case anymore. Drinking breast milk as an adult is extremely odd, let alone the breast milk of another animal.

[@N9ndo]

@@brookelauerman3290 Odd or not there's nothing wrong with that, both as people's metabolism has adapted and as it doesn't hurt the animal, and you still get the nutrient needed from it, not everyone has the money or access for alternatives either. And if you want to talk about what is natural, eating meat is natural for humans, we're literally omnivores. That's not a good argument.

[@brookelauerman3290]

You can get the nutrients in milk from other sources that don’t cause suffering. There is nothing in milk that you can’t get from many other sources.

[@lilith_1312]

''what's your best argument against veganism?'' ''ANTS''

[@otakunthevegan4206]

"our organs can digest meat" Our legs can walk us off a bridge, does not mean you should do it.

[@Jenjak]

I remember having the same arguments as this guy not so long ago...

[@jsblastoff]

🎊❤️☮️

[@Jenjak]

@foreskinwhispersasmr9502 nope

[@carpenterfrancis]

@foreskinwhispersasmr9502erm, and how did you come to that conclusion?

[@EngineersQuest]

I've been a vegan for over 14 years now. While I obviously don't need you to convince me of why I should be one I certainly need you to help me with the information I need to convince others as to why they should be. Thank you Ed for everything you do!!! 👍👍

[@happyapple4269]

I will help you.. we shouldn't be. We are hyper carnivores.

[@EngineersQuest]

@@happyapple4269 Let me help you. We don't have the anatomy of a carnivore.

[@toddgray21]

@@EngineersQuestwe have teeth for it.

[@EngineersQuest]

@@toddgray21 Go to my playlists and look for 🌱 Anatomy and 🌱 We're not meat eaters

[@rahooblack]

​@@toddgray21we don't really. Do you go in jungle and catch any animals by yourself without the help of man made tools and can you jump on a deer and kill it with your hands and teeth, can you rip apart their skin after you kill them, can you eat the raw meat from their corpse like other animals do. Remember no man made tools or anything because you are putting a logic that we are humans are developed as a predator and meat eater.

[@baenedict]

I love how people are often caught off guard by how intelligent Ed is. They don't see it coming.

[@mareezy]

He's smarter than the Harvard kids

[@sheyshey1212]

You sure did get him cornered! I love watching your debating videos with non-vegans, your basic reasoning, simple common sense that many of us lack. Good job!

[@PeaceBeginsOnYourPlate]

“That’s a great question” lol. Great work Ed. Diffused a combative introduction and got him to really think and end on a positive note. 🐐

[@juliepayn7696]

His fall back is " that's a good question". You made him think. Good job.

[@julioandresgomez3201]

Avoid preventable harm and deaths as much as possible.

[@otakunthevegan4206]

It's so friggin easy, I mean, you see bug, you leave bug alone, how hard is it? I figured that out even before I went vegan and wanted to live a more considerate life. They gotta get some new material it's like Seinfeld re-runs with these guys but less funny.

[@lilysrq]

💚🙌 Ed! Your conceptual fung-shui is so eloquent & wholesome! Love the long microphone & the comfortable space it allows. I strive to gain your level of composure to maintain the clearest path to connecting with people to help foster collective awakening to the powerful benefits of empathy for all life, and striving for it in face of imperfection. Thanks 💚

[@ShutterAuthority]

"yeah, that's a great question.. umm..."

[@joshUniqueHandle]

I think those responses showed how honest and open minded he was

[@conniekorcsmaros3499]

Good job, Ed. Thank you for bringing awareness. ❤

[@shywarrior865]

he is teaching , preaching, evengelize, religion

[@intheinterim_]

I was vegan for 5 years and stopped being vegan because I was confused about the morality stand-point. I thought that if plants had the possibility of feeling then there was no grounds for my argument. I could not avoid hurting something. Ed sorted this out in my head from watching all his videos, and I’m officially vegan again. Ed, you changed my entire lifestyle back. Thank you.

[@mythic_snake]

I usually hate debates because it often ends with people getting more and more hostile and defensive, culminating in a lot of nasty behavior. I love how calm and unbothered Ed approaches every question and rebuttal, and keeps the conversation respectful.

[@miken1463]

The main reason for me was that I thought that I would not have any strength for sports if I gave up animal products. It took having a few people on my teams talk about being vegan / vegetarian and then I watched how they played. Physical, tough and quick with endless endurance. Enough to convince me. I wished that I would have changed 20 years before. I’m 6 years in my plant based journey and have eliminated animal products from my home coking but still am tempted by baked goods that others make as well as the occasional slice of pizza that tends to be ubiquitous at parties etc…. But I am going to try out Veganuary starting Monday for the animals! Thanks Ed you have been a very rational inspiration to me during this transition as well.

[@rebelvgan4579]

You've got this 👍🌱

[@sylphyy]

if you struggle with the transition, perhaps consider a more proactive exposure to the reality of the industries you occasionally support. It is cruelty on a scale most can't fathom and I feel that it may seal the deal for you. Some recommendations are earthlings or dominion - if you choose to do this. I personally only watched 30 minutes of each. It is a rough go.

[@bikeridernz6169]

Love it Ed - got given your new book fro Xmas too! Vegan 10 years now and I'm 64. Never felt better.

[@partlycurrent]

I love when people invoke the "what about insects" argument, because not only do they always make an absolute fool out of themselves, but they also show they havent done even the most surface level research into the topic

[@anonlukes5447]

Gotta love when people come in all smug as if they're the first person to ever use a "but you step on insects sometimes" argument

[@DenisMoricMedia]

Accidental harm will never be equal to intentional harm 💚

[@TryingtoTellYou]

Both end you up in jail lol. Furthermore, since Broccoli Beard wants to compel people's actions, he has the very cumbersome burden of proving why eating animals is not just a bad a choice, but an unforgivable choice. His question is not "why aren't you vegan?" but "why should I allow you to be carnivorous?" To which my response would be because I don't tell you what you must eat.

[@DenisMoricMedia]

@@TryingtoTellYou Well, my comment was in context of the conversation between willfully purchasing animal products that directly lead to animal harm and accidental actions that unintentionally lead to animal harm and why that distinction matters, especially when it comes to economic interests and individual buying power ✌️ Each food purchasing choice everyone makes has a big impact down the line for our planet and the living conditions on it 🌎

[@bambismomkelly7423]

Thank you Ed for your courage! Never stop! Mankind must change! There are too many environmental issues to ignore! I was vegetarian for many years, and 2024 will be my first fully vegan year:) Many are joining you to create a better, more compassionate, healthy planet! Happy new Year Ed!

[@themrssimpson143]

that was such a refreshing conversation!! Active listening, contemplation, and presence. Loved it.

[@venik1690]

ED your communication skills when engaging in debates with non-vegans are phenomenal!

[@rynkydynky]

What I really love about veganism is what happens at the end: Ed says try it out, you have nothing to lose. It is not forced, It is totally up to the person to change and consider it. 🌱

[@Rodders069]

If all vegan activists were like Ed, we would have far more vegans in this world. Amazing work he does to challenge people’s views and beliefs.

[@rondarkman.]

So you mean someone like tash peterson who dresses up as a cow vandalising property and screaming at people may not be as good as eds approach, where he can actually hold a conversation to people? Interesting

[@lolzerd3745]

Meat eating seems to be something people simply haven't given much thought to so they are stumped when they are supposed to talk about it even though the topic isn't particularilly intellectually challening. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to a society where we simply have more meat eaters who are logically consistent or whether people will transition to Vegetarianism/Veganism.

[@jsblastoff]

What have people given much thought to?

[@thunderingox6963]

You're right that people have never really given any thought to it. Most people just regurgitate the myths they think they've heard somewhere and pass them off as fact. Social change is inevitable, the facts are incontrovertible.

[@lolzerd3745]

​@@thunderingox6963 The thing is that I'm not sure whether this results in that much change. I think it is generally possible to be a logically consistent meat eater and the response to the vegan side can be to either transition towards veganism or alternatively adopt such a consistent meat eater perspective, what I'm wondering is towards which side people will eventually gravitate.

[@thunderingox6963]

@lolzerd3745 I understand what you mean, though there is the moral worth of the victims involved with our individual choices. Social moral changes happen after more individuals notice or begin to consider the suffering of those being persecuted. Even looking at all victims on a scale of moral worth from humans (highly valued) to insects (lesser value) right down to whether plants should be offered moral worth, it's still more favourable to cause less harm. Time will tell how quickly we decide as a society to place animals further up the scale than plants. But I do believe most people do try to be morally consistent when confronted with the actual suffering their choices create. The problem currently is that socially, there are so many accepted fallacies that aren't actually logical, so it's easy for society to ignore the suffering because they're rarely confronted with it.

[@lolzerd3745]

​@@thunderingox6963 The thing is that I'm not sure whether this is true. I don't know whether humans are really prone to assign enough value to animals in the long term. There's no study I'm aware of that checks on this so there is no way to tell for certain but I'm just considering on the one hand the people I saw who went from your typical inconsistent meat eater to simply saying they don't really care all that much about animals so they can morally consistently continue to eat meat and on the other hand people like fishers who are already just apathetic to it. Like it might just be the case that a large portion of people shed their ignorance but instead of going vegan they simply accept that to them animals don't have enough moral value to not be eaten.

[@olivero.1877]

But I love that this guy constantly recognizes that the questions are really good and that he doesn’t know why he’s not vegan

[@marcdeneus977]

Seems like a nice guy. Appreciate his honesty. Hope he makes the switch.

[@vasisimari92058]

He initially came in like a smug prick tho'

[@BrianLovesBeans]

give the guy credit for listening and actually engaging with Ed's ideas and comments instead of just sitting down ready to rage and attack

[@pifficus1]

Buddy pulled up being condescending and left humbled with a smile on his face. Ed - I strive everyday to have your level of patience. Plants forever.

[@catwalkster]

The smarter they think they are, the dumber their arguments.

[@PrimalShutter]

Ants tho

[@TryingtoTellYou]

right?@@PrimalShutter

[@rondarkman.]

And the smugger the vegan gets

[@narayangopal62]

I do not agree. This person had the guts to enter into this conversation. He has not come prepared. Ed has already heard all these arguments and has answers for them. I did not know about veganism till I was 59 years old. Does not mean i was dumb. Gary Yourofsky's speech turned me vegan overnight. We need to be kind in our comments to these guests. Now I watch Ed for his articulation and the respect he provides to all.

[@mass4630]

Brilliant Ed. As usual you expose people contradictions and leave them unable to construct any counterarguments

[@HowardWimshurst]

This is like a new chess player who leafed through a "how to play chess" book challenging Magnus Carlsen to a game 😂 He knows where you are going to move before you do

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

"What's your best argument against veganism?" "You squish bugs..." Harvard student thinks that is an argument?

[@danofthedead1979]

That's possibly the best argument

[@floris7055]

This person was clearly able to reason perfectly right? And to listen. I think he asked this question with a reason as you can tell by the resulting line of reasoning that followed, thought it was a great question

[@NoRegertsHere]

That’s not the summation of his position

[@pacmanmcgavin7034]

8 billion pay you no mind.

[@Johnnyfountaineyes]

@@pacmanmcgavin7034you literally say the same thing over and over Aaron, get a life bro

[@rookerzzz]

Great convo. It is so much better when everyone is open-minded to the other side.

[@karenwatson9444]

You are amazingly eloquent, i love how every person sits in that chair thinking that they have the best argument and you just educate them with so much class.. you are an example of knowledge and patience! Bravo 👏

[@donnierusmisel2221]

I love how often ed hears “you’ve got me cornered here” 😂

[@clarecurtis36]

Ed I am consistently impressed with the conversations you have with people, thank you for your knowledge and inspiration. I really loved how you wrapped up the convo as well.

[@laurets25]

Don't ants have elaborate societies and one of the most organized armies excluding humans obviously? That sounds way more worth preserving than a cow that stands around randomly eating grass. His gradient in morality of saying that a cow is more important than an ant and choosing based on opinion made no sense to me.

[@sahil04925]

The guy was very logical and was using common sense. He just didn't question his actions. Thank you Ed for making him question!

[@anneshaughnessy2754]

You make it look so easy! If only I could achieve the same results. Most people I talk to are completely close-minded and refuse to even have the conversation. 😔

[@hamassehdaneshzad9513]

I love how Ed used the scale the participant mentioned to connect with him with regards to plants, bravo to you Ed and to the participant for being open to hear you out

[@boarst]

That was really nice to see. A calm conversation at eye level with an open-minded guest. I wish that conversations on this topic (or in general) could take place like this more often.

[@jiminnature3394]

I wish you had pushed him that little bit further when he said he agrees with you but he’s still not going to go vegan. I’m curious how he would have responded. Never the less, beautiful advocacy Ed. A peace prize surly awaits you 👏🏼

[@rottenavocado7647]

Sometimes pushing too hard can activate defence mechanisms and do more harm than good. People need time to rethink and reexamine their values.

[@danofthedead1979]

Ed doesn't need to push, just be flawlessly logical and reasonable.

[@GS-lq2is]

I agree with the other commenters that pushing can be counterproductive. I was really glad that he didn't do that.

[@jan7117]

Its interesting that only dudes want to debate veganism

[@otakunthevegan4206]

Ya'll ever see the movie King Kong? (The 2005 one) Dude only eats plants, chews on bamboo, and took on 3 large carnivores at once and won. If that ain't alpha then I don't know what is.@@PhoenixDowned

[@veelam]

"My enjoyment as a human is more important than the animal's life." This really comes out of the mouth of a student from an elite university, the cream of the crop. Did we just forget to teach the younger generation morality, or just basic decency as a society?

[@justyuni4472]

Recognizing and overcoming cognitive dissonance and questioning one's own moral values does not depend on intelligence. If your parents raised you vegan, great for you. Most other vegans also used to think differently. People are socialized that way, unfortunately.

[@schwann145]

Countless rabbits have been slaughtered to protect the crops that vegans depend on. Why is your happiness more important than that pest's life?

[@veelam]

@@schwann145 Evidence?

[@justyuni4472]

@@schwann145 non-vegans also depend on crops. What now?

[@schwann145]

@@veelam I need to provide you evidence that pest control exists? Really? 🤣

[@carma3444]

Simply genius. No one with common sense can argue against it. Thanks Ed!

[@rondarkman.]

Why exactly?

[@isodyllmisc]

its funny how these people always come in like "im gunna own this guy" and leave like "fuck maybe i should"

[@OwlAtHome0]

Damn, this guy clearly hadn’t thought through these issues with any depth or rigor prior to this conversation! Much praise to Ed for pushing him to question his assumptions calmly & clearly, without making him feel stupid or defensive.

[@Sandra-mi7zv]

I love how calm this guy always is. It's very admirable how kind and respectful he is towards people who disagree with him.

[@jjradV]

Excellent vegan outreach ! Some people will always put themselves first, no matter what. Having said that, I hope your guest will think about the conversation, do further research and choose to live a nonviolent life.

[@GigglyardoYT]

i feel like everyone who goes to Harvard thinks they're smarter than everyone else

[@jasonito23]

No they don't think that. But they know that they are way more privileged than others.

[@kevinglazier8950]

Some do, sure. ​@@jasonito23

[@johannabonana5306]

I've been a meat eater all my life but I'm really considering going vegan. I don't see any real and good reasons for us to keep eating meat. The only reasons that I've ever had is that: 1. I've always done it and it would be weird or hard to change it 2. There might be some nutrients in meat that would be harder to find in other foods but probably not too hard because I have the means 3. It tastes good None in my mind are very good arguments in comparison to the suffering and environmental damage it causes.

[@lolzerd3745]

I mean 2 and 3 are pretty good considerations imo. However, meat eating should be done to the extend that it is sustainable for the environment. Current levels of meat consumption are obviously far too high.

[@komasaeufer]

Your individual decision doesn't make a difference for the animals, so that's why you can be a meat eater without any moral problem.

[@justyuni4472]

@@komasaeufer every single one makes a difference

[@komasaeufer]

@@justyuni4472 Nope, if I don't buy the chicken in the supermarket then someone else buys it spontaniously (lot of people shop this way). So you make exactly 0.0% difference due to your decrease in demand leading to an increase in demand in someone else.

[@justyuni4472]

@@komasaeufer If you look at the statistics, you will see that the number of vegans is steadily increasing. The number of vegan-only restaurants and vegan substitute products is also increasing. So I'm not the only one.

[@isaacpride2797]

I’m not vegan, but I love how respectful you are!!!

[@CallMeQuinnie]

The thing is that I can personally say that yes I have genuinely brokedown and cried over accidentally killing an insect... we do not know the ultimate consequences of our actions nor can we truly relate, but that doesn't mean we can't be capable of empathizing. Beautifully artoculated argument... you can see his gears turning, hope it touvhes his heart or this video someone else's!

[@stevenmeyer9674]

That was a good debate with an intelligent opponent who had a open mind and realized that he was painted into a corner.

[@duck2477]

He had nowhere to hide, admitted he had no arguments left, and in stead of saying 'ok seems like I have no arguments left, can you help explain some of the things that would help me understand veganism better' he just left with a 'i have nothing left to lean on but I'm still not going vegan' ☹️ I hope Ed's philosophy of opening minds to the IDEA of veganism for them to eventually make the transition works out 🌱💚

[@nasiatsekouras170]

You are incredible Ed 🙌🏼🙌🏼💚💚 He is that type that trolls Vegan posts. What about this..what about that, and never for a moment thinks of that cow horrified to death in that slaughter house, and the unspeakable pain she endures before she takes her last breath💔😥😥 I can’t talk to these people, but you leave them speechless and thinking. Thank you so much for all the wonderful work you do to make this world a kinder place for the innocent 💕🙌🏼🌱🌱🦋🦋

[@pear92]

The amount of times this guy says “that’s a great question…” lol

[@tomasanonymous]

Pseudo intellectual fail. Also pride in being ridiculously selfish got deleted pretty quickly 😂 amazing skill by Ed as always

[@PaterFiliarum]

Ed smashing it as always 💪🏻💚

[@mylesraymond7364]

That was a master class in dismantling typical carnist arguments.

[@rondarkman.]

And yet over 8 billion non vegans interesting

[@sethhoyt2202]

I can't get enough of these debates

[@MariusMilinski]

You have changed so many lives, and still after years remain such an inspiration to me and countless others. Thanks for always pushing forward

[@anthminimal]

been too long since you've uploaded one of these, I always look forward to watching you debate others!!!!

[@antitheistvegan]

I’m MORE than tired of the intellectual laziness and smugness of my fellow brothers and sisters. I get it, we’re products of our environments but for Fuk sakes.. not hurting innocent animals or contributing to their avoidable suffering should be elementary in modern times.

[@hi3694]

Meat, eggs, and dairy products are the foods with the highest nutritional and energy densities, with few side effects compared to e.g. the processed vegetarian alternatives. Veganism will always be niche until someone learns how to produce an equivalent for e.g. beef in the lab and commercialises it.

[@Johnnyfountaineyes]

@@hi3694absolute rubbish, red meat and eggs contribute heavily to bad cholesterol, maybe you should do some more research before coming across like a dimwit

[@rellikai945]

This man really only thought about as deeply as "man vegans say we shouldn't hurt animals, but I bet they don't care if they squish ants while they're driving around" and thought he had won the argument that he clearly never actually had.

[@danielleday9856]

Every time he says "That's a great question" translates to "oh shoot this guy is right." in my mind Hahah I will give it to him, he is respectable in the sense of being willing to listen.

[@jamescampbell3241]

Well done! I appreciate that you kept coming back to the original question. That was great, definitely planted a seed here!

[@Nanigross]

What a great video! I've been ethically vegan for over two years after going into a Costco and seeing pork piled high and saying that was the last straw. I try to explain to my friends and family why I chose to be vegan and all I get back is "oh I could never not eat cheese" 😂