New Stanford Study on Vegan vs Omnivore Diets for Insulin, Weight, and Cholesterol

I go over a new, extremely well-controlled study that used identical twins to compare the effects of a healthy vegan diet with a healthy omnivore diet on health markers, including insulin, weight, and cholesterol. Press "show more" to see the study link(s)!
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- Study link: jamanetwork.co...

[@IanRushtonMusic]

It was noted that those on the vegan diet were eating 200 less calories than those on the omni diet. This would account for their weight loss. And, that weight loss alone could very likely account for the improved biomarkers that were seen in the vegan group. So, the only take away I can see in this, which has been evidenced countless times elsewhere is that losing weight = improvements in health, independent of diet choice.

[@bowengass4215]

I guess you can say that if a vegan diet helps you consistently eat less calories, then it would be a good diet for you. But ANY diet that helps you eat less calories would probably be equally healthy.

[@ebirch90]

It was a lifestyle intervention study, and both diets were ad libitum. Satiation is the most important variable to hold constant for such. The fact that vegan diets provide equivalent satiation on 200 fewer calories is a significant finding too.

[@MiLoAnne666]

That's a correlation but not a causation for the improved health markers. I've lost weight using both keto and WFPB, and on keto, my doctor told me I needed to stop eating keto because of how bad my numbers were. They improved drastically, and I felt way better, on a whole foods plant based diet.

[@Robynartist]

That doesn't account for the insulin nor the cholesterol differences.

[@j-e-n-n-y-k]

The thing the researchers fail to mention that there is a significant difference in the energy intake between these groups. Vegan group calorie intake was reduced 17,5 % at the first phase, omnivores did reduce only 7%. On the second phase this was 14,5% for vegans, 4,6% for omnivores. As far as I can see this has not been taken in account with the analysis. Might have effect to lipid profile - and certainly to glucose concentration and insulin levels.

[@Robynartist]

Consider perhaps that the number of calories to be satiated varies between meat and plant-based foods. So, perhaps the comparison holds up.

[@michaels5705]

I switched to a whole food, low fat, plant based diet because of a recommendation from a friend who had done well with it. I lost 85 lbs., and had my A1C drop by 3.2 points (to 6.0) in 10 months time. My diet didn't include that much meat before, but it included lots of dairy (Milk, Cheese, Yogurt & Butter). I do nearly all of my own cooking. The main thing I miss is socializing over food. Thanks for sharing this study, but it didn't surprise me at all.

[@jasonito23]

When people ask me what the hardest part about being Vegan I tell them it's when you go to parties or family functions and can't eat none of the food. No cakes, cookies, pizza etc. When I turned Vegan is when I realized that my family ate complete garbage. My parents cleaned up their diets significantly when they started realizing what we ate most of the time. My dad might as well be a vegan, he barely eats any meat at all or any other animal products. He had a health scare many years ago when one doctor told him he was pre-diabetic. He got 4 other opinions that said different but he couldn't shake that first one so that helped him clean up his diet.

[@jennamakesbugs]

It gets less lonely over time as more and more people are open to plant-based eating. We had a wonderful Thanksgiving this year with so many options, so don't get disheartened! Great work in the meantime!

[@askme78232]

What did you find regarding socializing while eating out? And which of the foods you cut out helped you most noticeably? I ask because I would like to get a momentum going when I switch.

[@Robynartist]

That's great! My husband and I are 95% vegan with occasional dairy and egg and do quite a bit of socializing over food -- takes a little more ingenuity. I hope you find a way to socialize and continue to eat as you are!

[@sustainablelivingnl773]

It is so great to see a study done that has not been contaminated by corporate money. Great video.

[@The40yearoldVegan]

10 years vegan for the animals here. The health benefits are a bonus,(loss of asthma and more energy for me). I think to add on the longer you are vegan the more you learn about the amazing food options available. When I 1st went vegan it was just beans and broccoli now (after educating myself)I never run out of any ideas options its pretty easy.

[@jennamakesbugs]

I came here to say the same thing. The beginning of being a vegan was definitely not as satisfying as it is years later when you have tried and come to love so many more foods and cuisines as well as gotten a taste for simple, fresh foods.

[@theresamnsota3925]

I went plant based for health reasons (mostly digestive issues) this summer. I have a new found love for sweet potatoes….especially when stuffed with a bean chili. You are one hundred percent right, that you really learn to love foods that you probably wouldn’t have eaten while omnivore. My doctor 100% supported me in the change to my diet, and was happy to see I was already supplementing B12.

[@sheezy2526]

I think you still have to obviously eat healthy. Potato chips are vegan too. Lots of greens and vegetables along with beans, nuts, seeds ,grains.

[@dorothyscreations6490]

Same here...10 yrs vegan and totally agree. It definitely gets easier over time, learning and discovering new foods and tastes. Plus now there are so many more options of especially whole food plant based recipes out there!

[@flightrisk197]

I myself have chronic sinus issues and other breathing problems and an starting to wonder if cheese is the issue. So been looking at going vegan to test it.

[@mainers9618]

If they are both healthy diets, the question to ask is which one can YOU stick with. It’s good to know which one lowers “bad” markers more, but which one is sustainable in the long run for YOU. I would say to stay off processed food as much as possible and stop obsessing over which diet is better.

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

I know we forget all restaurants are full of seed oils, regular oil, salt msg in the homemade soups -they use a chicken powder. That gives it chicken soup that umami taste. Every product in market has oil, sugar salt. They are not part of a whole food diet. Meaning our ancestors never add oil to their salad or dishes. Salt is corrosive to the blood vessels and can cause hemorogic strokes. Asians get most in the world and Americans get most ischemic strokes in the world. Dr fuhrman discusses the nutritive diet. But I agree with you, its not cut and dry.

[@kbmblizz1940]

Results not a surprise to me, as 50+ years of highest quality, peer reviewed studies had pointed at similar findings. Using identical twins is convincing.

[@johnallen7367]

Australian male, 63, was 265lbs, sick fat, diabetic, on heart meds. Carnivore 6mths. Lost 65lbs so far. Arthritis gone, ibs gone, gastric reflux gone, joint pain gone, diabetes gone,prostate issues gone, depression gone,anxiety gone, sleep apnoea gone, snoring gone. Sleep is wonderful. Eat once a day, a fatty steak and maybe an egg. Never hungry, never tired, mental health is wonderful. No brain fog. If you asked me what the perfect human diet was 6mths ago, I would have said something from the just juice bar. Apparently i was wrong. Ive also kicked my heart meds.never healthier. My bloodwork is pristine, except ldl, which doesn't matter. My real indicator of cardiovascular disease, total calcium, is zero. My sugars are perfect. My testosterone is through the roof. Cholesterol has been badmouthed as the driver of cardiovascular disease. Everything is about lowering ldl. This is easily debunked, big food paid people to point the finger at Cholesterol, wherein the real culprit is insulin resistance, driven by sugar and carbs. Whilst vegans report good results, as do carnivores, who are diametrically opposite, the answer lies not in what we are eating, but what we are both excluding; sugar, carbs, processed foods. I can only speak for myself, and I have regained my life and health.

[@tyronekim3506]

I've heard similar anecdotes. My mother lived to 98 years and loved to eat meat. I also like meat. I'm wondering if certain people are more adapted to meat diet than plant diet. Be safe and in good health.

[@Robynartist]

Miche, I have a friend who reports similar results eating a carnivore diet. Can you please explain how this works? It seems to go against all the scientific studies.

[@user-bz6cg3qm9i]

hi there ....i ve been on this diet for 2 weeks and while i gained stranght i lost my sexual appetite completely .....why this is not working for me ? plus this researcher here says that all the data shows decreased testosterone on low cal diet. link kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJCzhat7g71jqpI

[@hamadax97]

indeed both vegan diet and carnivore diet eliminate processed foods and added sugar, that's a good take for me from the whole diet comparison discussion.

[@CalmVibesVee]

I appreciate this content. Your aesthetic and presentation vibe is great. Backdrop, lighting, sound quality, etc 👏 Very calm and professional

[@ronlee979]

Hi Miche, thank you for avoiding commercial interests. It truly sets you apart from so many others.

[@veronicaheaney3464]

Can’t see myself becoming vegan, but I will definitely try to incorporate more plant based, unprocessed foods in my diet. Thanks for your evaluation and presentation of this study.

[@DenisMoricMedia]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXmrdGeKaLqrn9Usi=08jnr2hIugRcc41a

[@jefflittle8913]

One place you can start is with Dr. Greger's daily dozen. It is a checklist of the most important options.

[@alexandrejuve1305]

It's what I do, at home I reduce my intake of poultry or fish by adding more legumes. I don't eat pork or meat at home

[@MoistVegan]

U won’t regret it if u go vegan and animals hope u do

[@thihal123]

An East Asian diet is pretty easy to go vegan because dairy odd not common, though eggs are used. You could easily eliminate eggs though. But, restricting oneself to just vegan diet isn’t really necessary or useful if you find it difficult because quality of life matters. Lean towards a heavy vegetarian diet and skip the junk food more often than not. I assume you know that a vegan diet can be really unhealthy too depending on how you eat. You can eat a ton of fat and processed food under a vegan diet. The main point is really lean towards less processed food, few manufactured foods.

[@meganrichardson6471]

Thank you so much. You always explain things in a way that I can understand. You are awesome!

[@philipjensen1378]

I ate a strict mostly whole food vegan diet for 8 years. I have a lot of food allergies which limited the protein sources I could eat. Initially I saw amazing results in many areas. I enjoyed the foods I was eating also. Over time the negatives started to be more obvious to me. I have been into intense exercise since I was in 8th grade. I had a much longer exercise recovery time and a progressive loss of muscle mass and strength. My hair became much thinner and grew slower. I found myself becoming much more easily bruised and my sex drive went to zero. I know this doesn't happen to everyone. I added 1 meal per day of grassfed beef and added a collogen supplement and some pea protein isolate, which bothers my stomach a little. I gained 20 pounds in a year while getting a little leaner than I already was. I feel like I was able to correct the deficits I was having just with this small addition without losing the other benefits I had gained from the original diet change. Perhaps if the soy or wheat based proteins would have not made me sick I could have made it work.

[@asexualatheist3504]

I am happy to have found your channel. Thanks for your diligence in reviewing conflicts of interest.

[@user-ic9ug9wu9q]

You do a great job, Miche! I especially appreciate your sensitivity to the industry influences, and to the quality of the science. After following media forever on these issues, I am so pleased to find you as a source of well-vetted information. You are helping me to make better choices and course correct at this stage of life (63). Thank you, and please continue!

[@sidilicious11]

I’ve been a whole food plant based vegan for 10 years, and vegetarian 40 years before that. I don’t miss or need animal products in my diet. In this modern day and age there is such an array of available plant based foods that there’s no need to eat animals. And it’s way less negative impact on the environment.

[@tobimarulee]

Wow, thank you for this wonderful summary-explanation of this very suitable study, Miche. I particularly like seeing that you are very careful and alert about conflicts of interest in those studies, as they can provide very faulty results. It's so helpful. Thank you. :)

[@LawrenceCarroll1234]

This is great research! I burst out laughing when it was pointed out that those in the vegan group reported less satisfaction with their diet because - even though I’m a vegan and absolutely LOVE it - I can see how many people will chafe at the challenges they may face in implementing such a diet on their own. Over time, as prepared, healthy vegan meals become more easily obtainable and popular, resistance will probably fade considerably.

[@nolainnogain]

This is awesome. I love the level of thoroughness you put into this. I would never know who’s funding these. Excellent job.

[@trishstauble3461]

Chris Gardner and the Sonnenburgs are such wonderful nutrition and microbiome researchers from Stanford. Thanks for covering the outcomes of this research.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Do you think it's possible that Chris Gardner and Andrew huberman have never run into each other on campus?

[@Ermude10]

@@Joseph1NJ Huberman is close friends with Peter Attia, who dismisses nutritional epidemiology out of hand without any good arguments. Safe to say, I think Huberman would find it awkward to talk to someone like Chris Gardner as Gardner would both contradict a lot of what Huberman considers "established science" and directly go against a lot of what Huberman and friends recommends.

[@eriklindblad4135]

Great summary! Thanks! Too bad the diets were not matched for calories though. How many of the vegan diet benefits were a result of the the lower amount of calories consumed and the greater weight loss? That would be interesting to know.

[@lotembenatar7163]

The study results are not surprising... A vegan diet is higher in fiber and less calorie dense therefore more effective for weight loss, and weight loss itself improves insulin sensitivity and lipid profile, the study results do not suggest that the Vegan diet itself improved these metrics

[@meb3369]

Thanks for this helpful summary! Looking forward to reading this paper.

[@paal1576]

shalom sister Thank you for sharing your insights and for your research. Thank you for verifying that the studies are not contaminated with bought people.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

Did the study disclose what type of meat was used? Grass finished organic beef, wild caught salmon, sardines, free range chicken/eggs?

[@rpellicer]

I appreciate the efforts to limit the genetic and environmental factors. In that sense, the design was good. Bit would love to see it repeated however, comparing vegan to omnivore LCHF. Anyone in the LCHF community could have predicted the increased insulin levels in the study because you should not mix that much fat with that many carbs. Also, although LDL (which is a poor marker for CVD) decreased in vegan diet, so did the HDL. It would have been nice to have other markers of CVD other than those, such as inflamation, homocystein, etc... Likewise, hormone statuses would have been great, like vit D, sex hormones, thyroid. And lastly, CBCs and other markers of macronutrient deficiencies. These checks would have been a much better comparison of overall health.

[@johnisailofski7140]

I would like to see a similar study with triplets! Just to compare vegan, omnivore and carnivore diets.

[@catherinewilson1079]

Excellent work and reporting! I became a vegan recently to get myself out of range for type 2 diabetes. I am pleased to report that I was quickly successful!

[@edgbarra]

Wow such an interesting study! I love that we finally have a randomized controlled group, even with twins! Thank you so much for the analysis. I'm definitely sticking to ny plant based diet, mostly whole foods

[@k.h.6991]

For people commenting on the difference in calories in the two diets: people were told to eat till satiated. So people automatically, without trying, were eating less on a vegan diet. This is what would happen in the real world. It's a feature, not a bug.

[@AdriWiid]

I would love to know how those diets affect individuals muscle mass. Does the absence of Leucine cause muscle atrophy in Vegan diets?

[@tatv2316]

you do invaluable work presenting these studies in the way you do it!!!

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

I saw a chart on digestion times from stomach to intestines. Fruit was quick, veggie took 2 hours to digest, meat took the longest, possibly more work on the system. Interesting

[@rubytuby6369]

I’d be interested to know the 4 pounds, the vegans lost? Was it fat or muscle? If you lose a lot of muscle over time This is a bad outcome.

[@Austinite333]

I would be interested to know the difference if the omnivores consumed foods like white meat chicken or fish instead of red meats and how that would affect the tests. There are so many variables. I am not taking sides, just curious.

[@dhananjayjoshi2206]

Christopher Gardner had also taught us plants have all essential amino acids and we don't need animal proteins. This is great news!! Thanks for sharing Dr. Miche

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

Thanks I'm gonna look him uo

[@positivelysimful1283]

This was interesting. As someone who only eats 5% carbs per day , I wish they would do studies like this with vegans/omnivores vs. healthy low-carb/keto/carnivore. Every study I find they say meat eaters are less healthy than veg eaters, but every time the meat eaters are also eating carbs so we never really know if it's the carb addition that's causing the problem.

[@masucci61]

Thanks for reviewing this Stanford study , very useful and interesting

[@radhablinderman271]

Thank you for this video! Was excited to watch it.

[@johnx9318]

Were these people isolated? Or were they living in the real world where there is access to other foods? Mmmm.....

[@colinmaharaj]

For me when I went meat with little carbs, most of my digestion problems disappeared

[@parrisgjerde9212]

After blood tests last March, triglycerides, ldl, blood sugar, liver numbers were all terrible. Doc said go on a plant based diet. 6 months later, HDL was a little low but all other markers were in the normal range. Walking about 20 miles a week. Lost 15 lbs to boot. I’m sold.

[@discursion]

Food satisfaction really isn't relevant here anyway, given that they were forced into a diet and most people are meateaters (aka omnivores) to begin with. Also, I don't think it's fair or accurate to present vegan as more restrictive when for most people it opens up the door to so many new ways of cooking so many new things. There should be a study on that!

[@Innesb]

I agree that it’s a misrepresentation to state that a vegan diet is restrictive, unless ‘restrictive’ simply means, “I can’t what I want to eat”! They key is education. I found the first the 3-6 months of being vegan to be somewhat inconvenient, but after that, I had enough knowledge to eat conveniently consume a wide range of foods… a wider range than I did before I was vegan!

[@Robynartist]

Amen to that! Everyone doesn't eat some foods! Why call it limited when the variety of nourishing plants is enormous!

[@ericorange2654]

Both of you’re are objectively wrong. It is 100% fair and correct to call a vegan diet restrictive. You can be happy with a vegan diet and not have a desire to eat meat. That’s fine, but it’s the literal definition of restriction when you put a limit on diet to exclude meat.

[@d2row96]

Assuming that LDL is a problem.

[@garysmith9818]

Interesting, but is an 8 week study period long enough to really tell how well the diet is doing? We could really use a year long study.

[@discursion]

On a quick side note: tofu isn't a meat alternative. Meat is a tofu alternative (and a bad one at that).

[@Innesb]

That’s an interesting take. Why do you consider this to be the case?

[@nimblegoat]

Meat is great source of protein for those who struggle to get any protein of quality ( Africa for eg - I've seen kids - dry cracked skin from low protein etc ) - also is a great source for elderly and infirm -( where LDL , insulin is completely irrelevant - meat broth ) also for those in places where only source of signiant protein - and logistics/money is a barrier - I've stopped eating red meat - I will eat it in my travels if offered to me - But even putting it on a even standing - tofu is not complete in itself - but with beans , broccoli , nuts seeds +B!2 +choline etc - Also you can eat meat have great insulin easy - and harder good LDL -( women have to really screw up to have heart attacks ( smoking/obese or be unlucky genetically/virus - as estrogen protects them ) = I'm not advocating eating meat . Also chicken has shown to be fairly neutral , fish positive = some cheeses neutral/slightly positive - same for kefir and yogurt - positive for stomach biome - yes miso , sauerkraut . tempeh. kimchi , kombucha etc great as well - The takeaway here is find what works for you - cut back on red meats , probably all processed meat , butter . milk - add beans . lentils. tofu ( miso , tempeh ) , quinoa etc . We want to nudge people away from meat - I still eat some fish and some chicken as feed it with veggies to my dog - he can't eat it all - when I slow cook a chicken for week ) - The highest sugar I eat is probably an apple dressed with nuts - maybe white rice the odd time I have it - prefer wild or brown

[@Magar6]

Thank you for this information. By the way, your channel is blowing up girl (in a good way!). Well done! 👍👍

[@RobtJude]

I tried a Vegan diet for 2 years. It made me anemic. My blood work was bad. I didn't lose weight and most importantly, I felt like crap / bad. Bottom line is that everybody is unique and you should do what works for you. Sample size N=1.

[@maulikdave3780]

I am so glad I found your channel there is so much misinformation on the web, your channel cuts thru the nonsense to provide facts. THANK YOU!!!

[@stan8926]

18 months of WFPB to lower BP from 140/90 to 105/70 which took about 10 years to develop on Paleo diet. But caused gerd because of low stomach acid, from no salt is my suspicion (studies show stomach acid can decrease in half I guess from lack of Cl).

[@KaroAdC]

Add celery juice! The best sodium ever

[@susymay7831]

Hidden gem channel 💎

[@hill3363]

Can you help me understand 1 point? The chart at 4:16 listed the breakdown of vegan vegetables. There are NO mention of fruits. Did the study exclude FRUIT??

[@CharlieFader]

But fruits are not vegetables…

[@MichePhD]

No it did not exclude fruit. I just focused on the biggest differences in the two diets

[@hill3363]

Thank you for the clarification.@@MichePhD

[@kimberlylovato6426]

The fat to protein ratio is off, resulting in skewed results.

[@kwongheng]

I don't disagree with the outcome. The only thing that I can say is a vegan diet over 8 weeks is perhaps better than a HIGH CARB omnivorous diet. What it DOESN'T say is that vegan diet is superior or even better than a carnivore diet (all meat) or even a low carb or ketogenic diet. So perhaps if a person has only 2 choices of eating vegan OR high carbs omnivore diet, they should choose a vegan diet for 8 weeks. The effect is only short term of 8 weeks which is not enough to present itself with deficiencies from a vegan diet and bloating and constant hunger. Given the superiority of vegan diet, I would like to see vegan diet being put into clinical trial for mental health issues, auto-immune health issues, cancer and other metabolic diseases. I would also like to see the vegan diet being put forth to US elite army soldiers or astronauts as a way to enhance their performance under stress.

[@middleearthltd]

Science based study Makes sense to me Thank you for this video

[@KenGaskins-nm3gx]

Nice info and study. My only "beef" with the vegan crowd is that you really need to supplement. While vegans can argue on B12 and D3, Omega-3 is a harder sell due to possible conversion issues from ALA to DHA/EPA. I also think it is difficult to follow correctly long-term, and we as a species are omnivores. Personally, I do a ovo-pescatarian diet, eating fish (mainly sardines and salmon) 2 or 3x/week and eggs on occasion (mainly if I go out for breakfast). I'll eat a burger, chicken, etc, at a barbecue, but otherwise I don't eat it. Currently, I also consume Greek yogurt. I do think that veganism is the future trend though, so my hats off to vegans and vegetarians to alleviate animal suffering and detriment to the environment. I do believe that with better meat substitutes grown in the lab, a lot more people will go vegan in the very near future too along with people that just switch over.

[@santiagoblandon3022]

I wonder how much of that extra bodyweight loss was muscle mass 🤔

[@sakidickerson]

That's a good question. Personally I'd sacrifice a bit of my enormous awe inspiring muscularity for these kinds of results lol but it would be good to find out the answer to this

[@Barnaclebeard]

Vegans have higher lean mass percentage. More strength. Better endurance. Vastly better recovery. Cope and seethe.

[@CharlieFader]

If at least some of the better markers are due to the weight loss, it’s unlikely that they were the product of muscle loss.

[@carinaekstrom1]

If they had normal exercise, probably no loss of muscle mass. Especially since they were losing weight slowly.

[@veganmamafourgirls5370]

Great review of this study! Thank you, Miche :)

[@castlebrookbooks1037]

Our Paleo ancestors' diets were about 20% animal products and the rest vegetables and fruits. This diet got us here today. I was eating very little meat or fish or even eggs for a few years. I had less energy, thinner hair strands and easily breakable nails. I have been eating a little more animal protein in the last year, and my nails have improved, my energy has improved, and my hair strands better, although not more, darn it. I don't feel as hungry with this present diet. I probably don't eat as much as 20% animal products, but the improvement is good for me at 76. I think the results are flawed due to the caloric intake differences. My insulin levels good no matter what I've been eating all my life. I have switched to olive oil and butter instead of seed oils.

[@slydog7131]

As Warren Buffet said: "I'd be willing to give up a year of my life in order to eat the foods that I like."

[@ks1u]

I became a vegetarian in 1976 and a vegan about 10 years ago. My cholesterol varies between 123 and 143 and all other markers are in the ideal range. Now, at age 74, the only issues I've had have been due to trauma and tick bites with bouts of Lyme disease and babesiosis. There are few things in life that I am more certain about than that a vegan diet is the optimum human diet for health and longevity. The additional bonus of being good for the planet and all other life forms is what has kept me a vegan with no regrets. Thanks for the presentation of this data not influenced by corporate money.

[@karend.9218]

Sorry, disagree. The optimum human diet varies by person. Oxalates, lectins, goitrogens are deadly to many humans…..but good for you, you found what works for you on an elimination diet of vegetables. How is your B12?

[@redrockcrf4663]

So the take away to get best improvement - get Stanford researchers to deliver all your meals? 😄

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

My friend is always chronically low in iron but she probably just needs more B12. She eats a bite of fish a couple times a week, arugula, kiwi, pomegranate, nuts everyday, spinach, broccoli once in a while, quinoa, avocado. She can get rid of a rash on her face. I suspect it could be too many oxalates as she eat the same thing over and over. Because oxalates are ok in moderation but not every day. They are high in spinach and in the seeds of berries kiwi, black berry. She says this popular cream is helping but it's hasn't gone away in over a year. doctors and nutritionist are stumo. They gave her allergy testing but never mentioned oxalates. I then said maybe it's the cream which had many toxic ingredients. And she said no because she took a break from it. Crazy how she won't even consider changing the foods. It could be a nutritional deficiency since she doesnt vary her foods.

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

Oh and she eats many small meal a day. I told it she could be spiking insulin too much. But she doesn't subscribe to that and she has no fat on her.her downfall is candy but doesn't cheat often.

[@anonqwerty]

Hi, Miche. I love to see such results as I am fully WFPB myself. BUT this study has at least one red flag --> vegan group were given ~200 kcal less, which means that results might have been impacted by caloric restriction (and there are many studies showing that caloric restriction is effective by itself). What are your thoughts on this? Have a nice day.

[@HSLSFirst]

Lose the weight on any diet is easiest to adhere while increasing exercise. As the fat goes away, people feel better. For most, once one is reasonably lean and regularly exercising, all markers will be normal on whatever diet is sustainable and enjoyable for someone.

[@blahblah6237]

The best way is to try the diet yourself and get your bloodwork done before and after.

[@joeltremblay9408]

Make sure to get a copy of your blood work and a good understanding of the healthy parameters. In many cases the normal range is not healthy nor safe for your health. If most people who are in the normal range get normal diseases like cardiovascular diseases and cancer and dementia then it follows that the normal range of blood markers is not healthy. Get educated and do not follow the norm or the crowd.

[@juanmatute575]

Thanks for taking the time to analise the Stanford research. Btw, Netflix released a 4 episodes Serie. "You are what you eat"

[@MrMoneyHelper]

Knowing the funding source is vital in judging the validity of every study. It matters. Thank you for doing that research for your videos.

[@hamadax97]

do you mean they're lying about results?

[@vlewin1844]

Vegan for 28 years now, mostly (but not always) eating unprocessed food. I do it for ethical and environmental reasons but am very happy to hear that it is also optimally healthy. It is working for me! It is not nearly as difficult to be vegan today as back when I started. More people understand the word and vegan food is widely available if you do a teeny bit of planning and learn what is vegan and what is not.

[@stanblackburn700]

You are awesome, Miche! Thanks for your work.

[@j.rob.5943]

Did they report caloric intake? In my experience, it is very difficult to overeat on an all natural plant based diet. Easier when meat is added in. Wondering if the health marker differences could be attributed to weight loss benefit. My markers go up/down with my weight.

[@elisenieuwe4649]

Good question. One of the most damaging diets is one on which you overeat. I would also like to know more precise what animal products. Since there are (processed) meats that are very high in saturated fats compared to lean meats. The difference between those two is pretty huge on cholesterol. Same with the type of milk products someone consumes. It does truly make a difference. The total fat can stay the same between groups and still have one group consuming way more saturated fats, because there fat % levels were pretty high. I really can't find this as interesting without this information.

[@hugomarquez3189]

But that’s precisely the point, you eat more fiber, more water, and hence you get filled up with fewer calories, that’s why you lose weight. Calorie density is the name of the game. It’s harder to overeat in a whole food plant based vegan diet.

[@wendy2catsne]

8 weeks is not long enough many many vegans are very healthy for a while and then suffer enormous gastrointestinal issues as well as skin issues and hair issues etc!

[@hilbert551]

Love your videos, makes you think about stuff you don't think about. BTW, is your diet vegan or meat? Just curious.

[@johnmize6608]

I'm not a nutrition expert, but to me, it looks like both diets are healthy strategies for controlling weight and putting health markers into healthy ranges. (If you are soundly in a healthy range for an indicator does being a couple of points lower improve measurable health outcomes?) The bottom line of all the KZbin research I've done in the last couple of weeks is that a diet that avoids added salt, sugar, and highly processed foods and emphasizes leafy greens, vegetables fruit, beans, grains, nuts, seeds, healthy fats, and 0.7 gm of protein per kg of body weight is healthy. Eating beans, grain, and nuts going to provide some of that protein anyway. If the rest of the protein is animal based I can't see much difference one way or the other. Easier for many people to start and stay with. Me for example.

[@mrdavester]

Is it "the lower the better", or were both groups ldl and insulin considered in the healthy range?

[@user-co5yp2jr8n]

I heard that you will want to keep eating until you have enough protein. But it didn't say it had to come from any particular source.

[@ambroziajewel]

Been a vegan for 40+ years. The past 5 years I’ve experienced cholesterol creep and finally crossed the line to abnormal. I added plant sterol supplements and dropped my LDL by 40 points in 2 months. I’ve researched the possible reasons for the creep but all I could find is natural plant sterols are not as well absorbed with age. Have you read anything on the reason for cholesterol creep even when not consuming animal products? I don’t think it’s familial.

[@Mrm1985100]

The vegan diet was not particularly healthy actually, it was fairly average and about 33grams of fibre and 38% of calories from fat. They also ate a fair amount of refined grains. It's interesting that the vegan diet still did much better. One could design a much healthier vegan diet.

[@Appleblade]

Weird that the study doesn't say whether plant based eating diminished muscle or fat, or what combination. Pretty important.

[@skaterforlife2]

Wow. just found your channel. very informative

[@dr.coole.]

I'm impressed, great study and summary. Especially surprised by lower insulin levels in the vegan cohort. Same for triglycerides... and weight? My insulin, triglycerides and weight all reduced as I became a keto eater including healthy meats and fish, some dairy. (I'm actually sloppy keto) I would like to know about the inclusion of vegetable oils in the two diets, and the omega 6 to omega 3 ratios. BTW I am not convinced LDL alone is an important maker - ApoB a much better indicator.

[@cynthiaangel5429]

Thank You!!!!!🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻

[@wendy-ue8ct]

Funding is important as you point out. But unless you follow every LLC - I have no doubt Stanford University , gets lots of funding from big Ag & big Pharma - money can funnel in many ways. Addiction and sickness are lucrative!

[@v_zach]

Great study. I've often wondered if studies of vegan diets were subject to survivorship bias, in that people who did well would continue and people who didn't would quit.

[@jasonito23]

Most of the time they continue for a a few months and stop....just like the average for most diets. They interviewed some of the twins from this study and the "vegans" didn't remain 100% vegan one woman switched to vegetarian. One thing that is very annoying about most studies is that vegans are bunched in with vegetarians when they shouldn't be. They are totally different diets. I can tell you the hardest part about being Vegan. It's not the diet. It's when you go to parties or family functions etc. and you won't eat the food that everyone else is eating and it's an eye opener. I remember the first family reunion I want to after being Vegan. There was not ONE DISH I could eat. Even the salads were all full of meat. My dad, who's not vegan said, "Damn, I guess that's why most of us, in this family are dying of strokes and heart attacks. There's pork in every single dish. "

[@carmellaphillips9183]

I watched the show about it. They never said they used animal products from a regenerative source but showed CAFO's throughout the show. I assume they fed everyone CAFO meat. To me this is a flaw. I agree with the message, CAFOs are not good for planet or humans. What I don't raise myself, I buy from a local farmer regenrative farmer. It's not cheap to do it this way, but I appreciate that food more and I do not waste it. You should look into the quality that comes from a regenerative meat source. Some of the farmers I follow have actually spent money to have their products evaluated to show the nutrient density. Thank you, I am enjoying your research!

[@urstandingonmyfoot]

I understand that vegans are very excited about this study, however, 44 people studied over 8 weeks, and the results, are not what I would consider conclusive or necessarily predictive of long term outcomes. I would also like to see if there were any significant differences between the men vs women, but with 34 women and 10 men in the study it's hard to do that.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

The only two problems I really have with this study are not controlling better for both total protein intake and calorie intake. The total calorie intake for the omnivore group was significantly higher, as was the protein intake. Both of these factors would likely impact some of the results.

[@smthB4]

And was their any difference in the average calories of the two diets?

[@raybennett1359]

I really wish they had have given each group the same calories. The increased weight loss in the vegans is right in line with the reduced amount of calories they recieved.

[@NoNameRequired777]

I can appreciate the fact that you consider funding, please never give that up. I think the study is slightly unfair since one is an elimination diet and the other is not. When the body is trying to process both carbs and fats, (omnivore) its not working efficiently. I would like to see the same quality controls with a Vegan Diet against a pure animal based diet (Carnivore). Thanks for what you have covered in this study.

[@1allstarman]

Why didn't the researchers make sure both groups were getting the same amount of calories in their meals ?

[@lynnrobin9988]

The study didn’t address bone health as it was a short term study. In the long term, I bet the lower protein diets took their toll. That is the situation I’m in now.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

The Vegans in the study actually reduced their calories to about 1600 versus the omnivores who averaged 1800, and the Vegan group lost about 3.3 pounds. Calorie deficits, assuming no deficiencies pretty much improve all biomarkers regardless of the makeup, and 200 kcal a day is substantial, and would correspond to about 3.2 pound of fat loss. I don't see how the nutritional makeup matters in this study when the vegan group actually ate 200 kcal less a day. You eat 10% less food, you get 10% less insulin and LDL goes down. Nutrition made simple says that those on the Vegan diet ate 200 kcal less per day. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4CZZaenoMuJqKM It does show that those on the Vegan diet chose to stop eating at 1600 kcal so it may control appetite.

[@AT-in9ld]

really amazing! now we need it redone but same calories across the groups haha

[@RobertoRiosbiz]

Would love to see a study about keto versus plant base

[@jasonito23]

I'm subscribing. Good video and a good comment section

[@seanmoser7478]

so is the lower insulin and ldl due to the differing four pound weight loss? good video. thanks,

[@anabolicamaranth7140]

I doubt it, Seven Day Adventist vegans have about 1/2 the diabetes risk as the omnivores even when controlling for BMI.

[@CharlieFader]

Partly I guess.

[@carinaekstrom1]

I would imagine so, but probably not to a great degree, since four pounds is not very much.

[@lakehuron7733]

Really interesting--thank you. Title just needs to be Omnivore vs Herbivore diets (classification vs classification) or Cranism vs Veganism based diets (ideology vs ideology).

[@d2row96]

We would need to exactly what foods the omnivores ate.

[@JeffC-fq1be]

Good to see. If you're not aware of Dr. John McDougall, his Starch Solution is awesome. The KZbin Physicians Committee channel is filled with great info. As Dr. McDougall said, he doesn't like the term "vegan," as it refers to what one doesn't eat. A diet of whiskey and potato chips is vegan.